Dan Connor / MLB / Penn State / 1st Round

[TacticaLion]

Height: 6-3 | Weight: 233 | 40-Time: 4.65

Strengths:
Above average athleticism...Reliable tackler...Will deliver the big hit...Physical and aggressive...Adequate timed speed...Has sideline-to-sideline range...Does a solid job in coverage...Smart with excellent awareness and instincts...Versatile...A hard worker and leader...Intense and competitive with a non-stop motor...Tough...Has a lot of experience against top competition...Productive...Great program pedigree.

Weaknesses:
A tad undersized and needs to bulk up...He will have to get stronger...Has trouble taking on blockers head-to-head...Isn't stout at the point...Lacks fluid hips to turn and run in man coverage....A little rigid and mechanical...Minor character concerns.

Notes:
The latest product of Linebacker U...Older brothers Jim (Boston College) and Mike (Lehigh) both played college football...Could project inside or outside at the next level...Was suspended for a few games in 2005 for making harassing phone calls to a former assistant coach..He may have been a little overhyped by the media...A weakside prospect who carries a pro grade similar to Paul Posluszny's a year ago.I think he's a perfect player to fill our MLB void. Connor and Sims? Forgetaboutit.

Either Alex Lewis, Paris Lenon or Buster Davis (or another rookie) would win the SLB spot.

(Poll note: Instead of selecting your opinion of his value, select your opinion of his priority in the projected round. For example: If you vote 1, he's your highest ranked prospect in the projected round. If you vote 2, there's one better prospect in the projected round. Voting 5 suggests that you have 5 or more prospects ranked above him in the projected round.)

[WMD]

There are a few players I'd rather have than Connor at 15.. Nothing against the man, but I'd rather have Derrick Harvey, Philip Merling, Calais Campbell, Aqib Talib, and I'm also liking the idea of picking Reggie Smith too.

[TacticaLion]

There are a few players I'd rather have than Connor at 15.. Nothing against the man, but I'd rather have Derrick Harvey, Philip Merling, Calais Campbell, Aqib Talib, and I'm also liking the idea of picking Reggie Smith too.I can agree that 15 is a bit high for him... but, I'd hate to pass on him and grab a lesser talent in round 2. I just imagine a Sims-Connor LB group... add any SLB and the unit is great.

Out of curiosity... how would you feel if we acquired a stud DE before the draft?

[Scotty D]

Harvey, Talib, and then Connor.

Edit -

I know the team has big plans for IAF, but I think that Harvey is a great prospect and a great fit for our scheme. Pressure from the front four will make our LBs and CBs look better. Personally I think the actual pick will be a CB or MLB. I think Connor could slide on draft day and we could see him in the second round. I think there are a good amount of 2-3rd round MLB prospects when you look at whose available. Another thing though, I don't want Talib to be our KR/PR. I think it is to big of a risk. I'd rather find one somewhere else.

With the news clippings that I've read about the direction of the team. I could see a draft like

1st - Aqib Talib
2nd - Curtis Lofton, Jerod Mayo, Jonathon Goff
3rd - Chevis Jackson

I'd rather see something like this

1st - Derrick Harvey
2nd - Godfrey or a MLB (Lofton, Mayo, Goff)
3rd - Chevis Jackson, Simeon Castille, Terrell Thomas

To many holes, not enough picks.

[Brothgar]

Unless he runs fast at the combine Chevis Jackson may be a reach in round 3 although I'd like to see him a lion as well.

I have connor as 3rd prospect I'd bring in under Otah and Talib

[WMD]

I can agree that 15 is a bit high for him... but, I'd hate to pass on him and grab a lesser talent in round 2. I just imagine a Sims-Connor LB group... add any SLB and the unit is great.

Out of curiosity... how would you feel if we acquired a stud DE before the draft?

If we got a Stud DE, I'd feel a lot more comfortable taking a Cornerback in Round 1.. Connor would move up the list though.

[TacticaLion]

If we got a Stud DE, I'd feel a lot more comfortable taking a Cornerback in Round 1.. Connor would move up the list though.

I've been thinking about the CB situation a lot lately.

We need a player that can start from day 1... and I'm beginning to think that we'll have to take that player in the 1st round.

This is what I see right now:

1. Bryant
2. (Empty)
3. Fisher
4. (Empty)

If we spend our 1st on a CB and grab another talented player at the end of the 2nd round (trading up), we could fill both spots and the second pick could take over for Bryant next year. If we did that, we could take a MLB with our regular 2nd rounder (Wheeler/Lofton) and be set on defense.

My problem? I'm not seeing a great fit at CB in the first round. The 4 top CB, McKelvin, Jenkins, Talib and DRC, lack great strength and solid run support. The solid Cover 2 CBs (Lee, Godfrey, Jackson) can be had in and past the 2nd round.

[woodnick]

I don't question that Connor is head and shoulders the top MLB in this years draft, but I don't know how favorably he compares to the top MLB's of next years class, Lauranitis and Maulaunga. So if we have to stick out 1 more year of Paris and try to work Buster into some playing time I wouldn't mind it that much, assuming that they use the draft pick on another good prospect at a need area.

[Xiomera]

1st - Aqib Talib
2nd - Curtis Lofton, Jerod Mayo, Jonathon Goff
3rd - Chevis Jackson


I like this one Scotty.

[Maybe Next Year Millen2]

I like the Talib,Lofton scenario. I've advocated that too in other threads.

However, in Round 3 I think we need to go best player available. I'd rather sign Brian Kelly for 2 years instead of getting another corner in Round 3. Because if you sign Brian Kelly and for some reason Talib isn't really ready, Kelly can be a starter. Millens Round 3 corners are just always doomed. Goodman,Keith Smith,Stanley Wilson.

As far as Connor, I've watched every snap he's played at PSU. He would be a great addition. I pretty much agree with what Scott said about him. He's not a superstar in coverage, but is above average and could get the job done dropping back to cover Tight Ends. He's exactly like Puz except I think Connor is a better blitzer than Puz. That being said I think corner is a bigger need for this team and Talib is very talented.

[ironman4579]

Personal opinion, I really wouldn't mind Connor at all. Personally, I prefer him over James Lauriniatis by quite a large margin. As for Harvey, I see people are high on him, but honestly, I can't see why. He's not overly big, fast, or even strong really. Supposedly "bad" pass blocker Jake Long really held him in check in the Capitol One bowl, and against another first round OT, Chris Williams, he did nothing this year as well. He's never had double digit sacks, and I really don't think he plays the run as well as people think either. I could see him in the first round, but pick 15 is a little high for him IMO.


And Scotty, I just noticed your sig pal, and you might have to change it up. Shelton got traded to the Rangers awhile ago.

[Maybe Next Year Millen2]

Harvey is living off his performance in the National Championship game. Did he beat Boone badly or was it Ohio States Right Tackle. I can't remember. Harvey didn't have a good year at all and either did Calais Cambell. I just can't see us taking a 1st Round DE. Especially with Ikaika in year 2.

[TacticaLion]

I'm getting scared about taking a CB in round 1...

None of the projected 1st round CBs seem to be a great fit... whereas there are many in rounds 2-3 that fit well. If Lee has a great combine and moves up, I'd consider him... but that looks like it.
I just can't see us taking a 1st Round DE.So far, the Lions agree with you.

[Maybe Next Year Millen2]

I'm getting scared about taking a CB in round 1...

None of the projected 1st round CBs seem to be a great fit... whereas there are many in rounds 2-3 that fit well. If Lee has a great combine and moves up, I'd consider him... but that looks like it.
So far, the Lions agree with you.

You want to know why none of the firsr round corners are Cover 2 fits except for maybe Talib(who has size and can cover). Because Cover 2 corners usually are slower, can't cover man to man as well (which is a necessity and top priority in this league unless you run a cover 2)so they have to excel at zone coverage. They are usually a little slower, but a little bit bigger so they can tackle better and thus are good in run support. The more athletic corners are better athletes but not as strong.

That is why I like Talib. He can cover and he has good size so he shouldn't be terrible in run support.

[TacticaLion]

You want to know why none of the firsr round corners are Cover 2 fits except for maybe Talib(who has size and can cover). Because Cover 2 corners usually are slower, can't cover man to man as well (which is a necessity and top priority in this league unless you run a cover 2)so they have to excel at zone coverage. They are usually a little slower, but a little bit bigger so they can tackle better and thus are good in run support. The more athletic corners are better athletes but not as strong.

That is why I like Talib. He can cover and he has good size so he shouldn't be terrible in run support.I always thought the same thing... until I read this:
Weaknesses: Is not a very solid run supporter. Not a very good tackler at this stage of his development. Relies too much on his natural gifts and hasn't yet worked hard enough to develop his technique. Bites too early. Jumps routes and sometimes misses the ball. A bit of a boom or bust type. Needs to stop reading his press clippings. Not the best team guy around.
That hurts. Not solid in run support and not a very good tackler. Also, not the best team guy? Wow.

Here's my thing: why take a talent that's not a perfect fit when you can fill that position with a stud and take a perfect fit later?

[ironman4579]

Harvey is living off his performance in the National Championship game. Did he beat Boone badly or was it Ohio States Right Tackle. I can't remember. Harvey didn't have a good year at all and either did Calais Cambell. I just can't see us taking a 1st Round DE. Especially with Ikaika in year 2.

I just went back and looked, and, I could be wrong of course, but it looked like his damage mostly came against Barton on the right side, who I saw get pushed into the backfield by Shawn Crable on numerous occasions in this years OSU/UofM game.

[Maybe Next Year Millen2]

Most corners are not very good tacklers. All our corners last year were terrible tacklers and they were supposed Cover 2 fits. They too besides Bryant could not cover.

If Marinelli and Barry think he completely won't fit, then we won't take him no matter how well he can cover. Talib is only a junior so he still has a lot of developing too do, which is why he is boom or bust. Most draft picks are boom or bust in Round 1.

However, I like Talib because he has the size, which you can't teach and the "supposed" best cover skills(which will be refined even more under Marinelli and Barry).

[woodnick]

Personal opinion, I really wouldn't mind Connor at all. Personally, I prefer him over James Lauriniatis by quite a large margin. As for Harvey, I see people are high on him, but honestly, I can't see why. He's not overly big, fast, or even strong really. Supposedly "bad" pass blocker Jake Long really held him in check in the Capitol One bowl, and against another first round OT, Chris Williams, he did nothing this year as well. He's never had double digit sacks, and I really don't think he plays the run as well as people think either. I could see him in the first round, but pick 15 is a little high for him IMO.


And Scotty, I just noticed your sig pal, and you might have to change it up. Shelton got traded to the Rangers awhile ago.

I don't know how "bad" a pass blocker Long is, he only gave up 1 sack all year long and that was to Gholston. Not very big on Harvey, I think he benefitted by Moss and co. last year but struggled with the blocking schemes against him this year. As for Connor, I know he's a heck of a football player, but IMO Lauranitis is more complete with his abilities in coverage, and he's expected to test much better than Connor, which is debatable on relevancy.

[Addict]

if we were to draft Connor I wouldn't mind at all. Even though I think there's solid linebacker value in the second (I'm thinking Erin Henderson for instance).

That said, the chances of getting a proper corner, pass-rusher or even an O-lineman in the first seems like a better idea. Even though (can't say this enough) I wouldn't mind Connor at all.

[TacticaLion]

Most corners are not very good tacklers. All our corners last year were terrible tacklers and they were supposed Cover 2 fits. They too besides Bryant could not cover.

Well... then I see Patrick Lee:
Very good size and bulk...Excellent timed speed...Tough and strong...Plays a physical brand of football...

And Charles Godfrey:
Is strong and tough...Physical and aggressive...A reliable tackler...Will deliver the big hit...

And Chevis Jackson:
Strong...Instinctive...Tough, physical and aggressive...Good hands and ball skills...Has fluid hips to transition...Reliable tackler...Solid against the run...

And DeJuan Tribble:
Strong and tough...Physical and will support the run...Reliable tackler...

Tribble has character concerns... so I can't see Marinelli taking him... but the rest are great fits (and can be had past the 1st round). It's known that a Cover 2 can wait on drafting CBs, so why should we reach and take someone who isn't physical or solid against the run?

[woodnick]

Well... then I see Patrick Lee:


And Charles Godfrey:


And Chevis Jackson:


And DeJuan Tribble:


Tribble has character concerns... so I can't see Marinelli taking him... but the rest are great fits (and can be had past the 1st round). It's known that a Cover 2 can wait on drafting CBs, so why should we reach and take someone who isn't physical or solid against the run?

Tribble also struggled a lot in Mobile and I too would be shocked if the Lions looked in his direction.

[TacticaLion]

Tribble also struggled a lot in Mobile and I too would be shocked if the Lions looked in his direction.

Yeah... we wouldn't take him... but, hell, at least he can support the run.

[ironman4579]

I don't know how "bad" a pass blocker Long is, he only gave up 1 sack all year long and that was to Gholston. Not very big on Harvey, I think he benefitted by Moss and co. last year but struggled with the blocking schemes against him this year. As for Connor, I know he's a heck of a football player, but IMO Lauranitis is more complete with his abilities in coverage, and he's expected to test much better than Connor, which is debatable on relevancy.

I personally don't think Long is a bad pass blocker at all. I actually think he's quite good, and a beast in the run game. My point was that many people were talking about how Long couldn't play LT in the NFL because of subpar pass pro skills(which, just to point out again, I don't agree with). So if Long is so average or below average in pass pro, and Harvey couldn't do anything against him, and couldn't do anything against Chris Williams, why is he being talked about as a top 10-15 pick? I don't see special "elite" size, speed or power, so what is it?

As for Lauranaitis, yes, I think he'll test better next year than Connor will this year, although I think Connor will put up pretty damn good combine numbers, better than Paul Poz last year. I know that stats certainly don't tell the whole story, and honestly, Connor and Laurinaitis are asked to do different things within their defenses. However, James L had 5 INT's last year, and 7 passes defensed total. Most of those picks were gifts that dropped into his hands rather than the result of great coverage. And Connor also had 2 INT's last year, with 4 total passes defensed, and had more TFL's and sacks. This season, James L didn't get as many gift INT's and had 2, with only 3 total passes defensed. Meanwhile, Connor had 1 INT and 7 total passes defensed. Plus he was superior in TFL's, sacks, tackles, and fumble receoveries.

Now, I know people will point out that Connor was a senior and James L was a junior. But Connors overall junior numbers were superior to James L's overall junior numbers IMO.

James L junior numbers

121 tackles, 8.5 TFL's, 5.0 sacks, 2 INT's, 3 PD's, 1 FR, 0 FF

Connor junior numbers

113 tackles, 9.0 TFL's, 6.5 sacks, 2 INT's, 4 PD's, 0 FR, 3 FF's


Personally, looking at the numbers, I actually think Connor might be just as good as James L in coverage, and honestly, watching both of them in coverage, I got the same impression. I know people will point out that they're asked to do different things, with Connor playing up close to the line and James L dropping into coverage more. But than doesn't that make Connor's numbers in pass pro more impressive? Personally, I think Connor is actually more of a playmaker than Laurinaitis, and causes more good things to happen on the football field. Just my personal opinion of course, and one that I know is disputed by the majority of posters on here, but I'm not a huge fan of Laurinaitis honestly.

[detroit4life]

i have read a few reports saying that Talib is expected to drop after the combine because ppl dont believe he will run as fast as people are expecting.

[Maybe Next Year Millen2]

Well... then I see Patrick Lee:


And Charles Godfrey:


And Chevis Jackson:


And DeJuan Tribble:


Tribble has character concerns... so I can't see Marinelli taking him... but the rest are great fits (and can be had past the 1st round). It's known that a Cover 2 can wait on drafting CBs, so why should we reach and take someone who isn't physical or solid against the run?

Why would we take a first round corner. Because Marinelli and Barry would believe that they can cover a wide receiver better than a Round 2 pick because they appear to be more athletic and have better ball skills. I'll let my D-line, LBs and strong safeties take care of the run game. Taking a corner that can't tackle a running back well off our list is like taking a DT that can't run a fast 40 off our list. Who cares about tackling a running back if he performs his main priority the best out of everyone of covering wide receivers. Run support has nothing to do with tackling wide receivers either. Many corners such as Talib can make a tackle on a wide receiver.

[woodnick]

I personally don't think Long is a bad pass blocker at all. I actually think he's quite good, and a beast in the run game. My point was that many people were talking about how Long couldn't play LT in the NFL because of subpar pass pro skills(which, just to point out again, I don't agree with). So if Long is so average or below average in pass pro, and Harvey couldn't do anything against him, and couldn't do anything against Chris Williams, why is he being talked about as a top 10-15 pick? I don't see special "elite" size, speed or power, so what is it?

As for Lauranaitis, yes, I think he'll test better next year than Connor will this year, although I think Connor will put up pretty damn good combine numbers, better than Paul Poz last year. I know that stats certainly don't tell the whole story, and honestly, Connor and Laurinaitis are asked to do different things within their defenses. However, James L had 5 INT's last year, and 7 passes defensed total. Most of those picks were gifts that dropped into his hands rather than the result of great coverage. And Connor also had 2 INT's last year, with 4 total passes defensed, and had more TFL's and sacks. This season, James L didn't get as many gift INT's and had 2, with only 3 total passes defensed. Meanwhile, Connor had 1 INT and 7 total passes defensed. Plus he was superior in TFL's, sacks, tackles, and fumble receoveries.

Now, I know people will point out that Connor was a senior and James L was a junior. But Connors overall junior numbers were superior to James L's overall junior numbers IMO.

James L junior numbers

121 tackles, 8.5 TFL's, 5.0 sacks, 2 INT's, 3 PD's, 1 FR, 0 FF

Connor junior numbers

113 tackles, 9.0 TFL's, 6.5 sacks, 2 INT's, 4 PD's, 0 FR, 3 FF's


Personally, looking at the numbers, I actually think Connor might be just as good as James L in coverage, and honestly, watching both of them in coverage, I got the same impression. I know people will point out that they're asked to do different things, with Connor playing up close to the line and James L dropping into coverage more. But than doesn't that make Connor's numbers in pass pro more impressive? Personally, I think Connor is actually more of a playmaker than Laurinaitis, and causes more good things to happen on the football field. Just my personal opinion of course, and one that I know is disputed by the majority of posters on here, but I'm not a huge fan of Laurinaitis honestly.

I was just tryng to back up your comments on Harvey, obviously looking at your sig I assumed that you were also a Long backer and I can see why. Personally I think that Long will be a succesful LT and I also think that most people label him as a RT because some scouting services say that that's his better fit, I disagree and I think he'll fit nicely and succeed at any OT spot and probably any G spot if he had to.

Nice factual support, hard to argue with that but from what I've seen I just think that Lauranitis is a better MLB and, specifically, a better fit in our current system. Just a note, OSU and Penn State use different systems, and if I had to venture a guess I would say that Connor was on the field more total snaps than Lauranitis. As a junior Connor was an OLB, but like you said they were asked to do different things. Nice stats though, Connor's production is excelent.

Overall, I wish the Lions would make a play for Vilma who did really well in the 4-3 a couple of years ago but struggles a lot in the 3-4 and the Jets might be willing to give him up for a 3rd and future 3rd, not quiet sure how the Jets see his value.

[ironman4579]

I was just tryng to back up your comments on Harvey, obviously looking at your sig I assumed that you were also a Long backer and I can see why. Personally I think that Long will be a succesful LT and I also think that most people label him as a RT because some scouting services say that that's his better fit, I disagree and I think he'll fit nicely and succeed at any OT spot and probably any G spot if he had to.

Nice factual support, hard to argue with that but from what I've seen I just think that Lauranitis is a better MLB and, specifically, a better fit in our current system. Just a note, OSU and Penn State use different systems, and if I had to venture a guess I would say that Connor was on the field more total snaps than Lauranitis. As a junior Connor was an OLB, but like you said they were asked to do different things. Nice stats though, Connor's production is excelent.

Overall, I wish the Lions would make a play for Vilma who did really well in the 4-3 a couple of years ago but struggles a lot in the 3-4 and the Jets might be willing to give him up for a 3rd and future 3rd, not quiet sure how the Jets see his value.


I was a big supporter of going after Vilma, because honestly, the guys a beast and is better than either Connor or Lauranaitis IMO. That said, the knee injury concerns me, especially how severe it is/is not. If there was some degree of certainty that the knee was basically 100%, I'd be all over getting Vilma. I also don't know how much the Jets would be able to get for him anyway. They might see his value as high, but I'm not sure how much leverage they would actually have, with as good as David Harris played(of course they run a 3-4, so obviously they could get them both on the field)

[woodnick]

I was a big supporter of going after Vilma, because honestly, the guys a beast and is better than either Connor or Lauranaitis IMO. That said, the knee injury concerns me, especially how severe it is/is not. If there was some degree of certainty that the knee was basically 100%, I'd be all over getting Vilma. I also don't know how much the Jets would be able to get for him anyway. They might see his value as high, but I'm not sure how much leverage they would actually have, with as good as David Harris played(of course they run a 3-4, so obviously they could get them both on the field)

Vilma has struggled so much in it and Barton/Harris seemlike a pretty decent duo. I value Vilma a lot higher also because, assuming he'll be the same type of player after the injury, you know what you are getting in him compared so you don't have to assume the risk of the draftee.

[Addict]

I was a big supporter of going after Vilma, because honestly, the guys a beast and is better than either Connor or Lauranaitis IMO. That said, the knee injury concerns me, especially how severe it is/is not. If there was some degree of certainty that the knee was basically 100%, I'd be all over getting Vilma. I also don't know how much the Jets would be able to get for him anyway. They might see his value as high, but I'm not sure how much leverage they would actually have, with as good as David Harris played(of course they run a 3-4, so obviously they could get them both on the field)

Old vilma, all for. Post-injury vilma... I'm not so confident he can return from this injury for 100%

[Iamcanadian]

I think Connor would best the 2nd best option for Detroit behind Harvey. He is talented and fills a huge need. People who talk about drafting a CB at #1 just don't seem to understand that we play in a zone defense where our CB's cover an area and aren't required to have top end speed or be able to cover a WR one on one. They must be good in zone coverage, can be slower than a shutdown CB but must be physical and be excellent tacklers. I can only think of 1 CB EVER drafted in round 1 by a Cover 2 team and that team (INDY) was drafting extremely late in round 1.

[Iamcanadian]

Old vilma, all for. Post-injury vilma... I'm not so confident he can return from this injury for 100%

I agree, on paper Vilna looks excellent but how healthy is he???