3-4 Defense Rankings? Suggestion...

[TheBaronPatriot]

How many teams in the pros run a 3-4?
Please let me know if I missed any.

NE, SD, PIT, DAL, NYJ, CLE, AZ, SF (25% of the NFL runs 3-4)

Anyway, every year we have to go out and hunt down DE's who could stand up and play the position, while everybody's rankings rate 4-3 OLB's which are typically smaller and faster.

And every year, we go out and look through MLBs and OLBs for a 245lbs+ guy who can handle the traffic in our 3-4 D's...

Would it be possible to break down position ranking and include 3-4 ILBs/OLBs? Same goes for 3-4 NTs and DEs.

This would be the first site (that I know of) that would do that and would probably generate more traffic.

Thoughts?

[cobra]

That's not a bad idea.

By the way, I get what you look for in a 3-4 OLB. But what do you look for in a 3-4 ILB? Is it just size?

[TheBaronPatriot]

3-4 ILB
must be able to stack and shed offensive lineman - guards mostly
so when a guard weighing 310 lbs comes at a LB he has a straight shot at him, the LB must be able to take on the guard without giving up his ground, stack him, read the play, shed and make the tackle.

In order to do this the LB must be strong and have excellent hand placement technique in order to neutralize the guard. So excellent butt/hips muscles in order to absorb the initial impact of the bigger man.

This is why you typically look for an ILB that's 245 + lbs.

Must also be able to drop back into the hook zone, and sometimes cover the HB/RB/TE 1 on 1, depending on who your ILB is.

Those are the fundamentals as I understand them.

[darnik44two]

Note: Sone players are listed at more than one position.

3-4 Nose Tackles

1 Sedrick Ellis, USC
2 Glenn Dorsey, LSU
3 Dre Moore, Maryland
4 Pat Sims, Auburn*
5 Ahtyba Rubin, Iowa State
6 Marcus Harrison, Arkansas
7 Red Bryant, Texas A&M
8 Frank Okam, Texas
9 Jason Shirley, Fresno State
10 Brigham Hartwell, UCLA
11 Carlton Powell, Virginia Tech
12 Alphonso Morgan, Kansas State*
13 Maurice Murray, New Mexico State
14 Richard Clebert, South Florida
15 Henry Smith, Texas A&M
16 Corey Clark, Jackson State
17 Frank Morton, Tulane

3-4 Defensive Ends

1 Kentwan Balmer, North Carolina
2 Dre Moore, Maryland
3 Pat Sims, Auburn*
4 DeMario Pressley, N.C. State
5 Phillip Merling, Clemson*
6 Letroy Guion, Florida State*
7 Calais Campbell, Miami*
8 Kendall Langford, Hampton
9 Chris Harrington, Texas A&M
10 Nick Hayden, Wisconsin
11 Lionel Dotson, Arizona
12 Red Bryant, Texas A&M
13 Frank Okam, Texas
14 Andre Fluellen, Florida State
15 Brian Johnston, Gardner-Webb
16 Johnny Dingle, West Virginia
17 Kenny Iwebema, Iowa
18 Marcus Dixon, Hampton
19 Keilen Dykes, West Virginia
20 Barry Booker, Virginia Tech
21 Kevin Brown, UCLA
22 Chris Norwell, Illinois

3-4 Outside Linebackers

1 Vernon Gholston, Ohio State*
2 Chris Long, Virginia
3 Quentin Groves, Auburn
4 Shawn Crable, Michigan
5 Phillip Merling, Clemson*
6 Derrick Harvey, Florida*
7 Bruce Davis, UCLA
8 Darrell Robertson, Georgia Tech
9 Lawrence Jackson, USC
10 Chris Ellis, Virginia Tech
11 Marcus Howard, Georgia
12 Titus Brown, Mississippi State
13 Jeremy Thompson, Wake Forest
14 Cliff Avril, Purdue
15 Jason Jones, Eastern Michigan
16 Tommy Blake, TCU
17 Wallace Gilberry, Alabama
18 Louis Holmes, Arizona
19 Angelo Craig, Cincinnati
20 Dorian Smith, Oregon State
21 Curtis Johnson, Clark Atlanta
22 Joe Clermond, Pitt
23 Kroy Biermann, Montana

3-4 Inside Linebackers

1 Keith Rivers, USC
2 Dan Connor, Penn State
3 Curtis Lofton, Oklahoma*
4 Philip Wheeler, Georiga Tech
5 Jerod Mayo, Tennessee
6 Jonathan Goff, Vanderbilt
7 Spencer Larsen, Arizona
8 Marcus Howard, Georgia
9 Tavares Gooden, Miami
10 Jolonn Dunbar, Boston College
11 Ezra Butler, Nevada
12 Beau Bell, UNLV
13 Thomas Williams, USC
14 Curtis Gatewood, Vanderbilt
15 Steve Octavien, Nebraska
16 Gary Guyton, Georgia Tech
17 Joe Mays, North Dakota State
18 Jameel McClain, Syracuse
19 Jeremy Geathers, UNLV*
20 Bryan Smith, McNeese State
21 Chase Ortiz, TCU
22 Xavier Mitchell, Tennessee

[MasterShake]

3-4 ILB
must be able to stack and shed offensive lineman - guards mostly
so when a guard weighing 310 lbs comes at a LB he has a straight shot at him, the LB must be able to take on the guard without giving up his ground, stack him, read the play, shed and make the tackle.

In order to do this the LB must be strong and have excellent hand placement technique in order to neutralize the guard. So excellent butt/hips muscles in order to absorb the initial impact of the bigger man.

This is why you typically look for an ILB that's 245 + lbs.

Must also be able to drop back into the hook zone, and sometimes cover the HB/RB/TE 1 on 1, depending on who your ILB is.

Those are the fundamentals as I understand them.

Good explanation...

let me just add this:

The 2 ILB spots are not identical. The Weakside ILB is asked to take on less blockers and is more free to attack the ball, although he will take on blockers at times. The strongside ILB you would want to be bigger and stronger because he will be taking on blockers more often. Speed isn't as important for a 3-4 ILB as it is for a 4-3 MLB, but it always helps - See Patrick Willis.

[energizerbunny]

Guys who usually play weakside in 43 defenses are usuall the ideal Inside backers in the 34.


That said you need to have a greater ability to shed blocks in the event you don't have an elite nose tackle or guards somehow get out on you.


Sideline to Sideline, Blitz ability, Coverage, being able to hold the poa vs bigger bodies and being able to scrape through traffic are all very important skills for inside backs in 34 depending on the system within the system

[VAfy-ya]

Good explanation...

let me just add this:

The 2 ILB spots are not identical. The Weakside ILB is asked to take on less blockers and is more free to attack the ball, although he will take on blockers at times. The strongside ILB you would want to be bigger and stronger because he will be taking on blockers more often. Speed isn't as important for a 3-4 ILB as it is for a 4-3 MLB, but it always helps - See Patrick Willis.

Thanks for bringing up a very good point about the differences between the strong-side and weak-side ILBs. Alot ppl fail to realize these two postion require different skill sets. My list as of now.......

OLB

1. Chris Long, UVA
2. Vernon Gholston, Ohio St.
3. Derrick Harvey, Florida
4. Quentin Groves, Auburn
5. Shawn Crable, Mich
6. Cliff Avril, Purdue
7. Jeremey Thompson, WF
8. Lawerence Jackson, USC
9. Chris Ellis, VT
10. Wallace Gilberry, 'Bama
11. Marcus Howard, Geo
12. Bruce Davis, UCLA
13. Tommy Blake, TCU
14. Rodrick Johnson, Okl St.
15. Angelo Craig, Cinn
16. Jameel McClain, Syracuse
17. Jonal Saint-Dic, Mich St.
18. Titus Brown, Miss St.
19. Darrell Robertson, GT
20. Vince Redd, Liberty
21. Curtis Johnson, Clark
22. Brandon Miller, Geo

ILB

1. Ezra Butler, Nevada
2. Phillip Wheeler, GT
3. Keith Rivers, USC
4. Beau Bell, UNLV
5. Jonthan Goff, Vandy
6. Curtis Lofton, Olk
7. Spencer Larson, Arizona
8. Curtis Gatewood, Vandy
9. Rodrick Johnson, Okl St.
10. Red Keith, C. Mich
11. Steve Octavien, Neb
12. Tavares Gooden, Miami
13. Erin Henderson, UMD
14. Stanford Keglar, Purdue
15. J. Leman, Illinois
16. Alan Darlin, Ore St.
17. Jermaine Dias, UVA


NT

1. Ahtyba Rubin, Iowa
2. Frank Morton, Tulane
3. Pat Sims, Auburn
4. Trevor Laws, ND
5. Ricahrd Clebert, S. Florida
6. Jason Shirley, Fresno St
7. Red Bryant, TexA&M
8. Frank Okam, Texas
9. Carlton Powell, VT
10. Henry Smith, Tex A&M

DE

1. Pat Sims, Auburn
2. Dre Moore, UMD
3. Kentwan Balmer, UNC
4. Keilen Dykes, WVU
5. Marcus Harrison, Ark
6. Derek Lokey, Texas
7. Kendall Langford, Hampton
8. Lionel Datson, Arizona
9. Nick Hayden, Wis
10. Chris Norwell, Illinois
11. Brian Johnston, Gardner-Webb
12. Marcus Dixon, Hampton .
13. Maurice Murray, New Mex St
14. Barry Booker, VT
15. Brigham Harwell, UCLA
16. Allen Billyk, UVA

[ammandss]

Thanks for bringing up a very good point about the differences between the strong-side and weak-side ILBs. Alot ppl fail to realize these two postion require different skill sets. My list as of now.......

OLB

1. Chris Long, UVA
2. Vernon Gholston, Ohio St.
3. Derrick Harvey, Florida
4. Quentin Groves, Auburn
5. Shawn Crable, Mich
6. Cliff Avril, Purdue
7. Jeremey Thompson, WF
8. Lawerence Jackson, USC
9. Chris Ellis, VT
10. Wallace Gilberry, 'Bama
11. Marcus Howard, Geo
12. Bruce Davis, UCLA
13. Tommy Blake, TCU
14. Rodrick Johnson, Okl St.
15. Angelo Craig, Cinn
16. Jameel McClain, Syracuse
17. Jonal Saint-Dic, Mich St.
18. Titus Brown, Miss St.
19. Darrell Robertson, GT
20. Vince Redd, Liberty
21. Brandon Miller, Geo

ILB

1. Ezra Butler, Nevada
2. Phillip Wheeler, GT
3. Keith Rivers, USC
4. Beau Bell, UNLV
5. Jonthan Goff, Vandy
6. Curtis Lofton, Olk
7. Spencer Larson, Arizona
8. Curtis Gatewood, Vandy
9. Red Keith, C. Mich
10. Steve Octavien, Neb
11. Tavares Gooden, Miami
12. Erin Henderson, UMD
13. Stanford Keglar, Purdue
14. J. Leman, Illinois
15. Alan Darlin, Ore St.
16. Jermaine Dias, UVA


NT

1. Ahtyba Rubin, Iowa
2. Frank Morton, Tulane
3. Pat Sims, Auburn
4. Trevor Laws, ND
5. Ricahrd Clebert, S. Florida
6. Jason Shirley, Fresno St
7. Red Bryant, TexA&M
8. Frank Okam, Texas
9. Carlton Powell, VT
10. Henry Smith, Tex A&M

DE

1. Pat Sims, Auburn
2. Dre Moore, UMD
3. Kentwan Balmer, UNC
4. Keilen Dykes, WVU
5. Marcus Harrison, Ark
6. Derek Lokey, Texas
7. Kendall Langford, Hampton
8. Lionel Datson, Arizona
9. Nick Hayden, Wis
10. Chris Norwell, Illinois
11. Brian Johnston, Gardner-Webb
12. Marcus Dixon, Hampton .
13. Maurice Murray, New Mex St
14. Barry Booker, VT
15. Brigham Harwell, UCLA
16. Allen Billyk, UVA


Since I'm a Virginia guy I'll just comment on those three. The funny thing is that Billyk, Dias and Long all played in the 3-4 in college but not at the positions listed here. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be listed at those positions in the NFL, but in college Billyk played a mixed of DE and NT; Dias was mostly an OLB; and as everyone knows Long was a DE mostly.

[VAfy-ya]

Since I'm a Virginia guy I'll just comment on those three. The funny thing is that Billyk, Dias and Long all played in the 3-4 in college but not at the positions listed here. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be listed at those positions in the NFL, but in college Billyk played a mixed of DE and NT; Dias was mostly an OLB; and as everyone knows Long was a DE mostly.

Well since I'm a UVA guy, and have seen these guys play up close and personal basically their entire collegiate career, I think I have a pretty good idea of where they would play at the next level. Groh uses undersized guys at alot of his defensive positions. He plays more of a one-gap 3-4 as opposed to a 2-gap scheme which most in the NFL play. Long, by Groh's own admission, would be better suited to be a OLB in a 3-4. Having see Long a couple times in person, he's much more closer to 270-275 lbs than his listed playing weight of 284 lbs. He could very easily transition to a weak-side OLB with his athleticism. Dias, at 234 lbs is too light to play OLB in a 3-4. But I think he could make a excellent 3-4 weak-side ILB......which is where I though he should have been playing at UVA, seeing as his isn't as adapt at blitzing from the outside as one would like a OLB in a 3-4 to be. Billyk played NT his last two years as a Hoo but his size(6'5 287 lbs) is more suited for a 3-4 DE at the next level.

[GDWTheSickness]

Thanks for bringing up a very good point about the differences between the strong-side and weak-side ILBs. Alot ppl fail to realize these two postion require different skill sets. My list as of now.......

OLB

1. Chris Long, UVA
2. Vernon Gholston, Ohio St.
3. Derrick Harvey, Florida
4. Quentin Groves, Auburn
5. Shawn Crable, Mich
6. Cliff Avril, Purdue
7. Jeremey Thompson, WF
8. Lawerence Jackson, USC
9. Chris Ellis, VT
10. Wallace Gilberry, 'Bama
11. Marcus Howard, Geo
12. Bruce Davis, UCLA
13. Tommy Blake, TCU
14. Rodrick Johnson, Okl St.
15. Angelo Craig, Cinn
16. Jameel McClain, Syracuse
17. Jonal Saint-Dic, Mich St.
18. Titus Brown, Miss St.
19. Darrell Robertson, GT
20. Vince Redd, Liberty
21. Brandon Miller, Geo

ILB

1. Ezra Butler, Nevada
2. Phillip Wheeler, GT
3. Keith Rivers, USC
4. Beau Bell, UNLV
5. Jonthan Goff, Vandy
6. Curtis Lofton, Olk
7. Spencer Larson, Arizona
8. Curtis Gatewood, Vandy
9. Red Keith, C. Mich
10. Steve Octavien, Neb
11. Tavares Gooden, Miami
12. Erin Henderson, UMD
13. Stanford Keglar, Purdue
14. J. Leman, Illinois
15. Alan Darlin, Ore St.
16. Jermaine Dias, UVA


NT

1. Ahtyba Rubin, Iowa
2. Frank Morton, Tulane
3. Pat Sims, Auburn
4. Trevor Laws, ND
5. Ricahrd Clebert, S. Florida
6. Jason Shirley, Fresno St
7. Red Bryant, TexA&M
8. Frank Okam, Texas
9. Carlton Powell, VT
10. Henry Smith, Tex A&M

DE

1. Pat Sims, Auburn
2. Dre Moore, UMD
3. Kentwan Balmer, UNC
4. Keilen Dykes, WVU
5. Marcus Harrison, Ark
6. Derek Lokey, Texas
7. Kendall Langford, Hampton
8. Lionel Datson, Arizona
9. Nick Hayden, Wis
10. Chris Norwell, Illinois
11. Brian Johnston, Gardner-Webb
12. Marcus Dixon, Hampton .
13. Maurice Murray, New Mex St
14. Barry Booker, VT
15. Brigham Harwell, UCLA
16. Allen Billyk, UVA

pretty thourough list good effort there buddy. ;)

[soxscout]

Too great of an idea/thread to let die.

I can understand the thinking that Conner could be an ok WILB, but are you all suggesting Rivers could also at 220 lbs? I just can't wrap my head around him playing any LB spot in the 3-4.

Right now I am thinking Bell/Goff/Butler are the three big ILB names to watch, which is good a a Patriots fan considering they are going to come into play in the 2nd/3rd round area.

[VAfy-ya]

Too great of an idea/thread to let die.

I can understand the thinking that Conner could be an ok WILB, but are you all suggesting Rivers could also at 220 lbs? I just can't wrap my head around him playing any LB spot in the 3-4.

Right now I am thinking Bell/Goff/Butler are the three big ILB names to watch, which is good a a Patriots fan considering they are going to come into play in the 2nd/3rd round area.

I just like Rivers as a player overall and the impact he brings. That the only reason he's rated that high to me. He did weigh-in at 236 lbs at the Senior Bowl. That's only 6 pounds off of Patrick Willis weight and he had a monster rookie campaign in a 3-4 as a weak-side ILB. Rivers doesn't posses Willis freakish athleticism but he's no slouch in that department. And you can add Wheeler to your list, who weigh-in at 245 lbs at the Senior Bowl and was really impressive.

[gus82witten]

Vince Redd from Liberty is a Steal!!!! He is from the some town as Jason Witten (Cowboys TE). He has great talent and would thrive in the NFL....

[Mr. Stiller]

How many teams in the pros run a 3-4?
Please let me know if I missed any.

NE, SD, PIT, DAL, NYJ, CLE, AZ, SF (25% of the NFL runs 3-4)

Anyway, every year we have to go out and hunt down DE's who could stand up and play the position, while everybody's rankings rate 4-3 OLB's which are typically smaller and faster.

And every year, we go out and look through MLBs and OLBs for a 245lbs+ guy who can handle the traffic in our 3-4 D's...

Would it be possible to break down position ranking and include 3-4 ILBs/OLBs? Same goes for 3-4 NTs and DEs.

This would be the first site (that I know of) that would do that and would probably generate more traffic.

Thoughts?

Next year 3-4 Talent is going to be insane especially if the 2010 Passrushers and DL come out.

[Mr. Stiller]

Vince Redd from Liberty is a Steal!!!! He is from the some town as Jason Witten (Cowboys TE). He has great talent and would thrive in the NFL....

Forgot to mention the reason he went to liberty is that he failed 2 drug tests at UVA.

[gus82witten]

like I said you cannot teach size and speed Vince Redd has his best football to come!