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BerninWI
04-29-2007, 07:21 PM
In all fairness to TT in regards to this draft, I don't think things ended up falling in nearly an optimum way to where the Packers could have fulfilled many of their needs with starting caliber talent. It was about 50/50 for Lynch to go before our first round pick, but he did. Few know if he would have been the choice had he fell in their laps. Instead they went with Harrell, a guy who I liked very much if you ignore his position. He has an incredible combination of size and agility, to go along with a motor that never stops. That's rare for a DT. I could see him being the best player available at that point. However, we may still have been able to get him if we took that Browns deal to trade down for a 2nd rounder, plus a 2008 1st rounder. Then we could have flipped one of our 2008 picks for Turner, and still had one in our pocket. I don't know for certain what will transpire with Turner, but it seemed like all smoke. TT no likey to trade high draft picks.

Then in the 2nd round, things fell even worse for TT and the Packers. One of our biggest needs was a talented big receiver with potential to be a #1, and 2 of the 3 picks immediately prior to the Packers pick ended up scooping those types of players up (Rice and Jarrett). Rice would have been a great coup. Instead we did the right thing to move down. Brandon Jackson looks like a heck of a talent, and a good fit for the zone blocking scheme, but he won't resolve our imminent need at running back.

I hated the James Jones pick and there's no excuse for TT on that one. It screams Cory Rodgers. Aaron Rouse was a solid pick.

I liked Crosby late. I think Harrell, Jackson, and Crosby; project to future starters. Rouse might be as well. On the 2nd day (other than Crosby), I don't see any gems really. That has been TT's trademark here and I believe at Seattle as well. Very strong throughout the first day, pretty weak the 2nd day. Wolf was the opposite.

We could have ended up with Lynch and Rice very easily.

I think this draft falls pretty squarely between the awful 2005 draft and excellent 2006 draft.

We still need to address our needs in free agency and explore the trade market. I believe you can attempt to win now while still rebuilding. Adding a receiver and tight end have little to do with Favre. We need help at those positions, irrespective of Favre. This is the NFL, not the NBA, teams can go from bad to the playoffs in one season, and from mediocre to virtual contender. There aren't guaranteed contracts, and if we structure them to our favor, we can cut guys who don't factor in our plans anymore, with few repercussions.

Boston
04-29-2007, 07:21 PM
Can everyone just accept the fact that Ted Thompson knows what the **** he is doing. He learned from one of the best in Ron Wolf, who is one knotch below God in Green Bay. He helped build a Super Bowl team in Seattle and has already produced four all-rookie selections in Green Bay (Collins, Hawk, Jennings, College).

I don't know about you, but I have much more trust in the guy who does this stuff *well* for a living than I do in people who occasionally post on an internet forum.

We should keep the NFL draft day discussion thread around until midway through the season, and see how many people eat their words.

johbur
04-29-2007, 07:25 PM
One thing the Packers got out of this draft that shouldn't be underrated is a TON of top-quality special teamers:

James Jones: Can longsnap. Experience returning kicks. Could develop into a blocker or gunner on special teams.

Aaron Rouse: Everything you look for in a special teams player. Will likely be a top gunner.

David Clowney: Has the speed to contribute as a kick returner.

Korey Hall: Typical special teams player who will see time as both a blocker and gunner.

Desmond Bishop: Anothe typical special teams player who could see action at both blocker and gunner.

Mason Crosby: Huge leg. Will really help out on kickoffs. Could develop into a great field goal kicker.

DeShawyn Wynn: Big back with good speed. Could see time as a lead blocker on kick returns or as a gunner.

The Packers have been extremely weak on special teams for awhile and these players could go a long way in improving that. Plus, some of them will likely even play offence or defence. ;)

Nice post. I was looking at these guys more straight up and whether they were starters or not starters. Maybe TT and MM had the goal of making the bottom 22 of their roster better instead of concentrating on the top 22 of their roster. It's always nice to get big names and top producing players, but maybe they want a heap of guys who are going to hungrily chase after the role of being a special teams demon and waiting their turn to be elevated from that.

You missed one:

Allen Barbre: "The four-year starter not only matched up and contained the opposition's best pass rusher each week, but he was also an outstanding gunner on special teams, leading the punt coverage unit in 2006." -packers.com. He's a 300 pound OT, used as the gunner on punt coverage! The results: registered ten tackles (9 solos) on special teams.

I think Barbre is my favorite player not from VT. I hope all the VT guys drafted are able to come out, work hard and just use the tragedy to generate internal motivation that lifts them higher than any others in this draft, and that they keep connected with their school more than they would have. Football in light of tragedy is always just a game, but I have seen what New Orleans rising up in the face of adversity has been able to do for the Katrina Aftermath community.

Moses
04-29-2007, 07:27 PM
Nice post. I was looking at these guys more straight up and whether they were starters or not starters. Maybe TT and MM had the goal of making the bottom 22 of their roster better instead of concentrating on the top 22 of their roster. It's always nice to get big names and top producing players, but maybe they want a heap of guys who are going to hungrily chase after the role of being a special teams demon and waiting their turn to be elevated from that.

You missed one:

Allen Barbre: "The four-year starter not only matched up and contained the opposition's best pass rusher each week, but he was also an outstanding gunner on special teams, leading the punt coverage unit in 2006." -packers.com. He's a 300 pound OT, used as the gunner on punt coverage! The results: registered ten tackles (9 solos) on special teams.

I think Barbre is my favorite player not from VT. I hope all the VT guys drafted are able to come out, work hard and just use the tragedy to generate internal motivation that lifts them higher than any others in this draft, and that they keep connected with their school more than they would have. Football in light of tragedy is always just a game, but I have seen what New Orleans rising up in the face of adversity has been able to do for the Katrina Aftermath community.

Geez, I wonder if Barbre will actually be used as a gunner. That would be interesting to say the least.

The thing about this draft class is that most of the players will have an easy time making the team because of their contributions on special teams. Realistically the only guy I could see being cut at this point is Clark Harris. Everybody else should be able to make the team if they do what they can on special teams.

bearsfan_51
04-29-2007, 07:30 PM
We should keep the NFL draft day discussion thread around until midway through the season, and see how many people eat their words.
Most of the Packers picks were huge projects, so by midway through the season I doubt many of them will be contributing enough to make anyone eat anything.

jpapa4490
04-29-2007, 07:31 PM
I like Clowney also, by far my favorite pick, but i still think Harrell was to early, but i can only hope TT knows what he is doing on this one

BerninWI
04-29-2007, 07:33 PM
I hope all the VT guys drafted are able to come out, work hard and just use the tragedy to generate internal motivation that lifts them higher than any others in this draft, and that they keep connected with their school more than they would have. Football in light of tragedy is always just a game, but I have seen what New Orleans rising up in the face of adversity has been able to do for the Katrina Aftermath community.

I feel dirty hoping for things like that, but I hear ya. I hope they are steals who just happen to be from Virginia Tech. I can't help but wonder if the positive potential p.r. was looked at as an extra reason to take them. Maybe not even conciously, but sub-conciously.

johbur
04-29-2007, 07:34 PM
Most of the Packers picks were huge projects, so by midway through the season I doubt many of them will be contributing enough to make anyone eat anything.

Well, I was worried that this was not a very good draft. BF51 is always a nice sounding board, as I just look at the opposite to what he's saying. That means TT did a much better job than I thought he'd done!

For the VT guys, I don't mean P.R., I mean that you have group of guys going to be given a lot of wealth, and will have a certain celebrity that I would like them to see parlay into a social force for healing in the VT community.

BerninWI
04-29-2007, 07:36 PM
Most of the Packers picks were huge projects, so by midway through the season I doubt many of them will be contributing enough to make anyone eat anything.

True....except for Harrell...that pick has been the most heavily scrutinized of course....and he's ready to play immediately as long as the injuries don't hamper him. His emergence alone would quiet many critics. IMO, he's an upgrade over Corey Williams. The guy is bowling over 2 OL on plays, making one handed interceptions and then juking guys after the catch. He's special.

Moses
04-29-2007, 07:38 PM
True....except for Harrell...that pick has been the most heavily scrutinized of course....and he's ready to play immediately as long as the injuries don't hamper him. His emergence alone would quiet many critics. IMO, he's an upgrade over Corey Williams. The guy is bowling over 2 OL on plays, making one handed interceptions and then juking guys after the catch. He's special.

Still a weird pick since Corey Williams, Cullen Jenkins, and Colin Cole were all extended if memory serves.

jackalope
04-29-2007, 07:38 PM
I'm warming up to the Harrell pick now. I'm not as disappointed about his value, as I feel that he'll be very good, but more his position, because I didn't see DT as a need.

Moses
04-29-2007, 07:44 PM
I'm warming up to the Harrell pick now. I'm not as disappointed about his value, as I feel that he'll be very good, but more his position, because I didn't see DT as a need.

I like Harrell as a prospect, I just don't see how he fits. I think the Packers will do a lot of shuffling with their defensive line next year. Luckily, they have a ton of versatility as a few of their DTs can play DE.

BerninWI
04-29-2007, 07:49 PM
I like Harrell as a prospect, I just don't see how he fits. I think the Packers will do a lot of shuffling with their defensive line next year. Luckily, they have a ton of versatility as a few of their DTs can play DE.

Maybe a trade?

Moses
04-29-2007, 07:59 PM
Maybe a trade?

A bit late for that now.

Boston
04-29-2007, 08:01 PM
I like Harrell as a prospect, I just don't see how he fits. I think the Packers will do a lot of shuffling with their defensive line next year. Luckily, they have a ton of versatility as a few of their DTs can play DE.

Like Harrel. I liked the pick. When you look back to the packers Super Bowl teams, we had outstanding D-lines, and TT seems to understand that games are won in the trenches.

johbur
04-29-2007, 08:09 PM
Like Harrel. I liked the pick. When you look back to the packers Super Bowl teams, we had outstanding D-lines, and TT seems to understand that games are won in the trenches.

Like he did in 2005? Maybe he's learned his lesson. Games are won in the trenches, but you still need to score more points than your opponent. Taking Harrell means that you have either devoted an R1 pick for a back-up and that you'll lose a young prospect like Johnny Jolly that you are still developing. KGB took three years to come into his own. If the Packers had taken an R1 DE that panned out, he would not have received the reps or the responsibility to be as good as he became. You also are now facing pressure to play a guy to justify his salary above other players who might be better.

The Super Bowl teams had a real receiving threat, or TWO, at TE, btw. Olsen would have made the team more like the 1996 team than Harrell will.

And most people are not saying they don't like Harrell as a player, though I hate picking injured players, they are saying that the value was dubious and that there is no round 1 need at DT with all the players that are on the roster.

Boston
04-29-2007, 08:13 PM
Like he did in 2005? Maybe he's learned his lesson. Games are won in the trenches, but you still need to score more points than your opponent. Taking Harrell means that you have either devoted an R1 pick for a back-up and that you'll lose a young prospect like Johnny Jolly that you are still developing. KGB took three years to come into his own. If the Packers had taken an R1 DE that panned out, he would not have received the reps or the responsibility to be as good as he became. You also are now facing pressure to play a guy to justify his salary above other players who might be better.

The Super Bowl teams had a real receiving threat, or TWO, at TE, btw. Olsen would have made the team more like the 1996 team than Harrell will.

And most people are not saying they don't like Harrell as a player, though I hate picking injured players, they are saying that the value was dubious and that there is no round 1 need at DT with all the players that are on the roster.

Do you really think Olsen would have been a better value at 16 than Harrel? That guy wasn't in the first round untill he ran his 40. As for the need to give Harrell more playing time, yeah, at first I could understand this, but once they guage what players perform the best, and which ones don't, they can give playing time accordingly. I'm sure they'll try Harrell out at DE and DT.

johbur
04-29-2007, 08:22 PM
Do you really think Olsen would have been a better value at 16 than Harrel? That guy wasn't in the first round untill he ran his 40. As for the need to give Harrell more playing time, yeah, at first I could understand this, but once they guage what players perform the best, and which ones don't, they can give playing time accordingly. I'm sure they'll try Harrell out at DE and DT.

Harrell is a DT. At DE he would be up against Kampman, KGB and Jenkins. How is that any better for PT than at DT?

Olsen not the value at #16, but a FAR greater need. Olsen=Starter over group of guys with pathetic production last year. Harrell=back-up getting 10-20% of snaps, unless coaches declare him starter over more deserving players.

I remember Favre throwing to Keith Jackson and Mark Chmura for first downs and touch downs. What do the Packers have like that now? Yeah, we had Gilbert Brown and Santana Dotson in the middle. But we also had Reggie and Sean on the outside. Now we have Jenkins and Kampman outside, but also have Pickett and Williams inside. That's a pretty solid group as far as numbers, though it is tough to compare ANY defensive line to one that has Reggie White and Sean Taylor on it.

Boston
04-29-2007, 08:38 PM
Harrell is a DT. At DE he would be up against Kampman, KGB and Jenkins. How is that any better for PT than at DT?

Olsen not the value at #16, but a FAR greater need. Olsen=Starter over group of guys with pathetic production last year. Harrell=back-up getting 10-20% of snaps, unless coaches declare him starter over more deserving players.

I remember Favre throwing to Keith Jackson and Mark Chmura for first downs and touch downs. What do the Packers have like that now? Yeah, we had Gilbert Brown and Santana Dotson in the middle. But we also had Reggie and Sean on the outside. Now we have Jenkins and Kampman outside, but also have Pickett and Williams inside. That's a pretty solid group as far as numbers, though it is tough to compare ANY defensive line to one that has Reggie White and Sean Taylor on it.

Like I said, they'll probably try him out at DE. Thompson basically said that he drafts BPA, and while some-most-people don't seem to think that's Harrell, I'm sure Thompson does for a reason.

As for the TE situation, yes, I would have liked them to pick up a TE on the first day, just not Olsen at 16, that's not a great value pick their. Apparently Thompson's OK with the TE's we have now, because he didn't take a TE 'till the last round, which, well, we'll see how that works out.

BerninWI
04-29-2007, 08:42 PM
Harrell is a DT. At DE he would be up against Kampman, KGB and Jenkins. How is that any better for PT than at DT?

Olsen not the value at #16, but a FAR greater need. Olsen=Starter over group of guys with pathetic production last year. Harrell=back-up getting 10-20% of snaps, unless coaches declare him starter over more deserving players.

I remember Favre throwing to Keith Jackson and Mark Chmura for first downs and touch downs. What do the Packers have like that now? Yeah, we had Gilbert Brown and Santana Dotson in the middle. But we also had Reggie and Sean on the outside. Now we have Jenkins and Kampman outside, but also have Pickett and Williams inside. That's a pretty solid group as far as numbers, though it is tough to compare ANY defensive line to one that has Reggie White and Sean Taylor on it.

No doubt TE's were very important to the success of the super bowl teams, but that in part was due to the fact that Favre had an affinity to use his TE's as a safety net. When Favre wasn't over the hill, he even made an awful TE like Bubba Franks a pro bowler. And yes, I do think he was always awful, you aren't past your point of effectiveness at 28. He's just gotten even worse somehow. Without Favre, TE's won't be AS important. The upgrade at tight end was vital when Favre had more left a few years ago, but now it's not AS important. Olsen would be a reach, and I agree with the guy who said he wouldn't be nearly as highly thought of if it weren't for the combine. I'm always leery of combine wonders. I think Spaeth would have been good value in the 3rd, and a good fit, but he went right before our pick unfortunately. I do agree that we need at least somebody serviceable to fill that position, and that player doesn't currently reside on our roster. Maybe TT is going out of his way to prove to Favre and the world that he's not building around him. Maybe he wants Favre to move on already but doesn't want to alienate Packer nation who would burn him at the stake if he forced him out. :)

princefielder28
04-29-2007, 09:01 PM
No doubt TE's were very important to the success of the super bowl teams, but that in part was due to the fact that Favre had an affinity to use his TE's as a safety net. When Favre wasn't over the hill, he even made an awful TE like Bubba Franks a pro bowler. And yes, I do think he was always awful, you aren't past your point of effectiveness at 28. He's just gotten even worse somehow. Without Favre, TE's won't be AS important. The upgrade at tight end was vital when Favre had more left a few years ago, but now it's not AS important. Olsen would be a reach, and I agree with the guy who said he wouldn't be nearly as highly thought of if it weren't for the combine. I'm always leery of combine wonders. I think Spaeth would have been good value in the 3rd, and a good fit, but he went right before our pick unfortunately. I do agree that we need at least somebody serviceable to fill that position, and that player doesn't currently reside on our roster. Maybe TT is going out of his way to prove to Favre and the world that he's not building around him. Maybe he wants Favre to move on already but doesn't want to alienate Packer nation who would burn him at the stake if he forced him out. :)

Why would smile when talking about brett Favre leaving??? :(

Boston
04-29-2007, 09:06 PM
Why would smile when talking about brett Favre leaving??? :(

I think the smile was toward "burning TT at the stake" if that happened.

princefielder28
04-29-2007, 09:07 PM
I think the smile was toward "burning TT at the stake" if that happened.

Ok, thought he was talking about Favre; that changes it for me then

BerninWI
04-29-2007, 09:08 PM
Why would smile when talking about brett Favre leaving??? :(

It was more indicative of the fact I was just throwing a theory out there, and I was half kidding about that and the burning at the stake comment. It had nothing to do with my opinions on Favre leaving. But I am kind of indifferent on that issue. You've just got to move on at some point. I'm much more receptive to him coming back than after that abysmal 2005 season. I wanted him gone after 05', but he proved last year he could still be at least decent. I like the fact that TT is building the team without Favre in mind. If he wants to stay while that's occuring, then stay, as long as there are no reoccurences of 05'. If so, that's 2 of 3 years, and we're keeping him on nostalgia alone.

jackalope
04-29-2007, 09:13 PM
Harrell=back-up getting 10-20% of snaps, unless coaches declare him starter over more deserving players.You have to explain this to me. I like our other DTs but I don't understand how you think that they are better.

Whistler6
04-29-2007, 11:22 PM
We went into the draft NEEDING to address our WR and RB problem..sure we drafted a couple RB's to compete, but we did NOTHING that will help out immediately at WR. We had 2 3rd rounders and just had to give up one for Moss...instead we took James Jones. all I can say is, Brett I feel sorry for you

johbur
04-29-2007, 11:47 PM
You have to explain this to me. I like our other DTs but I don't understand how you think that they are better.

Describe to me why you think Harrell deserves to be a starter over the current group of guys. Harrell will be a rookie DT who last played football on Sept. 16, three games into his senior season. Then came SURGERY, and rehab, which is not game conditioning nor off-season strength and agility building. He might be great in 2008, but I have serious doubts that a guy who tears his bicep and gets surgery will be the starter come September unless the coaches put him in due to draft status or the season goes belly-up or the guys in front of him are stiffs. He's also not a source of pressure on the QB, and that's against collegiate competition.

Speaking of the guys in front of him, Corey Williams is in a contract year and will be working harder than ever for big money. As it is, he had over 30 tackles and 7 sacks. How many full-time starters at DT in this league had that many sacks up the middle? Harrell had four sacks over his entire career against college competition. Ryan Pickett is a different type of player, but
had 64 tackles, near the tops for interior linemen. Colin Cole had over 30 tackles and I think he lead the team in tackles per play. On nfl.com's pro-comparison of who a player is like, he was compared to Johnny Jolly, who is actually already on the team and who was believed to have been a steal due to his leg injury last year and the team believed he would progress after a year of rehab and being in the off-season program.

Are any of these guys better than Harrell? I am not sure about that, but they have all been durable over the last year, have played 16 NFL games, plus training camp, plus pre-season games, and they'll all have another year learning the current defensive system and all are participating in the off-season program. What makes Harrell so great that he is going to overcome all of that and be the starter?

The only thing I've seen that he's better at is interceptions. Since the Packers are changing Korey Hall to a FB and he had six interceptions, maybe TT will change Harrell to a TE...

Whistler6
04-30-2007, 01:35 AM
I give TT a D- grade on this draft...to me Im sorry but the way the draft went completely ruined my weeknd. Im not the experts or the managers or whatever..but man nothing went the way I hoped it would NOTHING

The Legend
04-30-2007, 03:25 AM
I give TT a D- grade on this draft...to me Im sorry but the way the draft went completely ruined my weeknd. Im not the experts or the managers or whatever..but man nothing went the way I hoped it would NOTHING

i give him a B+ GRADE


Rd Sel# Player Pos. Ht. Wt. School
1 16 Harrell, Justin DT 6-4 305 Tennessee - Love it (#1 DT start of this year)
2 63 Jackson, Brandon RB 5-10 210 Nebraska (I Think A Steal)
3 78 Jones, James WR 6-1 207 San Jose State (Red Zone Man)
3 89 Rouse, Aaron SS 6-4 225 Virginia Tech (I LOVE HIM)
4 119 Barbre, Allen OT 6-4 300 Missouri Southern State (Steal Of The Draft)
5 157 Clowney, David WR 6-0 184 Virginia Tech (Deep Threat)
6 191 Hall, Korey ILB 6-0 232 Boise State (S.Teams Ace)
6 192 Bishop, Desmond ILB 6-2 239 California (Dont Know Much ABout)
6 193 Crosby, Mason K 6-1 214 Colorado (OUR BEST DRAFT PICK)
7 228 Wynn, DeShawn RB 5-10 238 Florida (look for him to ace in your system)
7 243 Harris, Clark TE 6-5 261 Rutgers (very good blocker)

The Legend
04-30-2007, 03:30 AM
Mason Crosby 48-66 (Note : 8 of 18 Kicks Were 50+ Yards)

also Dave Rayner miss 10 kicks in 1 year

he miss 10 (50+) in his life

http://www.nationalchamps.net/2005/sub/pics/small/colorado_mason_crosby_trans.jpg

Mwkick
04-30-2007, 05:01 AM
I don't know what to think about a draft grade. I think a C is about right.

But how in the world can you give a B+ when you believe our best pick is a kicker????!!!
In my opinion, you lose all credibility based on that alone...

princefielder28
04-30-2007, 06:49 AM
I don't know what to think about a draft grade. I think a C is about right.

But how in the world can you give a B+ when you believe our best pick is a kicker????!!!
In my opinion, you lose all credibility based on that alone...

Agree with everything you said there

ny10804
04-30-2007, 06:55 AM
I'm targeting Rory Johnson (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/olb/roryjohnson.html) in the 5th, and may want to trade up to get him. He's got good size and incredible speed, and came out as a junior. Could be a diamond in the rough.

^ this is from February 24th.

Anyway, he signed with us last night. He dropped because he had used marijuana in the past.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=598476

jackalope
04-30-2007, 07:13 AM
^ this is from February 24th.

Anyway, he signed with us last night. He dropped because he had used marijuana in the past.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=598476good news. any other signings?

Whistler6
04-30-2007, 10:18 AM
honestly...how the hell are you guys getting excited about a DT who didn't play his senior year and a kicker?! We did not upgrade our offense. We have 5-6 RB's to compete and I really don't see much difference between them. The only picks I like are the T, David Clownie WR, and Rouse S..

We did not upgrade..maybe we will be better in 3 years because of this draft, bout that's about it.

I guess I am just really frustrated with the fact we did nothing to excite our fans OR Brett Favre

M1Koter
04-30-2007, 11:27 AM
honestly...how the hell are you guys getting excited about a DT who didn't play his senior year and a kicker?! We did not upgrade our offense. We have 5-6 RB's to compete and I really don't see much difference between them. The only picks I like are the T, David Clownie WR, and Rouse S..

We did not upgrade..maybe we will be better in 3 years because of this draft, bout that's about it.

I guess I am just really frustrated with the fact we did nothing to excite our fans OR Brett Favre

Look, we wern't gunna win a super bowl this year no matter how good the draft and FA was. TT is building this team for the future

Crimedog77
04-30-2007, 11:34 AM
Yeah all of Thompsons picks had the future in mind. None of the players he picked jump out at you as immediate impact players. As for Harrel all you hear about him is the potential he has to be great. If you pick a guy at 16 he has to come in and produce right away. DT wasnt a need area and Leon Hall or Reggie Nelson wouldve been a great pick at that 16 spot to immediatly help out that secondary. If Thompson really wanted Harrel he couldve easily traded back and got him. Thompson really lost control of what he wanted to do this year in the draft and it is terribly dissapointing.

Jim Jim
04-30-2007, 12:30 PM
James Jones will be our slot guy this year. He has four qualities that jump out at me. He will fight to the death for the ball, he has great hands, he's more quick than fast ala Greg Jennings and he has a solid character. That makes for a great wideout.

I saw Shanahan saying on NFL Network that he was interested in Harell, and the reason he traded up was he was worried somebody else would take Moss underneath him. So you can forget about this whole trading back to get Harrell.

TT drafted solid players full of potential. It's getting dumb every year with people complaining about the picks and then pretending they knew all along. Grow up kids.

Take it away, Moses.

PackAttack
04-30-2007, 01:11 PM
I was pretty shocked with our draft at first but the more I think about it and look into it the happier I am.

Harrell is going to be a stud....if he stays healthy. Along with Pickett teams are going to have a really hard time running up the gut on us. Not to mention, having 2 good run stuffing DTs will open things up for Barnett big time.

Brandon Jackson has a ton of talent and very little mileage. His upside is much greater than people give him credit for. Kind of reminds me of another Husker coming out of college....some guy by the name of Ahman Green. Seriously, though.....if Jackson can learn to pass pro and add just a little bulk (another 5 pounds or so) he will be an every down back. He has excellent vision, amazing cutting ability and though he isn't open field fast fast fast he has great BURST which is very important.

Between James Jones and Clowney I see AT LEAST our future #3 and potentialy a replacement for Driver. Jones is fearless, big with soft hands and a drive to succeed as well as versatility. Though he isn;t timed fast he is pretty quick with pads on. Clowney has incredible deep speed and is a very talented athlete in the "quick twitch" mode. Kid has moves and hops. He is raw but he has the potential to develop into something special.

I like Rouse a lot. Only thing that worries me about him is how good will he be in man-to-man coverage? He is pretty quick but a bit stiff. I guess we'll see. I do love his ability to defend the run and boy lays down some HITS! He is also a high character guy which I like.

Mason Crosby I really believe will be a big time kicker for along time. I live in Boulder, CO and went to CU. Believe me, this kid is going to be a great cold weather kicker and could win us some games. He's clutch.

I like Barbre as a developmental Tackle. We need to start working on that and he has athletic ability.

Korey Hall could be our future FB and Bishop could be a stud in the middle if we ever utilize some 3-4 alignments.

Deshawn Wynn in the 7th is HUGE. I question his character and work ethic for sure....but....if he comes around his talent level is undeniable. He could be a big time value as a short yardage specialist.

Harris could be a decent short yardage receiving TE and supposedly is a wonderful blocker.

All in all I'm pretty stoked. I feel good about this season and can't wait to see these guys in action.

Go Pack Go!

The Legend
04-30-2007, 02:08 PM
honestly...how the hell are you guys getting excited about a DT who didn't play his senior year and a kicker?! We did not upgrade our offense. We have 5-6 RB's to compete and I really don't see much difference between them. The only picks I like are the T, David Clownie WR, and Rouse S..

We did not upgrade..maybe we will be better in 3 years because of this draft, bout that's about it.

I guess I am just really frustrated with the fact we did nothing to excite our fans OR Brett Favre


well im a fan and im excited

Boston
04-30-2007, 03:50 PM
We went into the draft NEEDING to address our WR and RB problem..sure we drafted a couple RB's to compete, but we did NOTHING that will help out immediately at WR. We had 2 3rd rounders and just had to give up one for Moss...instead we took James Jones. all I can say is, Brett I feel sorry for you

I feel sorry for Favre as well. Now he only has Driver, Jennings, Ferguson, eventually Robinson, and developing Jones and Clowney to throw to. If only we had a star reciever, and a solid corps. backing him. Oh wait...

PackAttack
04-30-2007, 04:48 PM
I feel sorry for Favre as well. Now he only has Driver, Jennings, Ferguson, eventually Robinson, and developing Jones and Clowney to throw to. If only we had a star reciever, and a solid corps. backing him. Oh wait...

hehehe....true true true :)

princefielder28
04-30-2007, 05:25 PM
Reading the Green Bay Press Gazette today and I found this article quite interesting:

http://greenbaypressgazette.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070430/PKR07/704300517/1989

PACKmanN
04-30-2007, 05:38 PM
We went into the draft NEEDING to address our WR and RB problem..sure we drafted a couple RB's to compete, but we did NOTHING that will help out immediately at WR. We had 2 3rd rounders and just had to give up one for Moss...instead we took James Jones. all I can say is, Brett I feel sorry for you

WOOT WOOT Rory Johnson a packer yes! Randy Moss didnt want to restruct his contract for us so why would u want to waste a 3rd on him and pay the guy 9-10 million a year????

princefielder28
04-30-2007, 05:50 PM
After thinking it over today I think that this past weekend's draft was definitely suited more for the future than for the present but with that we can still be very optimistic for the 2007 season.

Quarterbacks: Last time I checked Brett Favre is still walking through that door and playing on Sundays. A man that can make all the throws and knows what it takes to build and play for a championship. If Brett were to go down, third year quarterback Aaron Rodgers can step in and manage the game and he won't make mistakes that will bury you.

Running Back: Vernand Morency is the number one back right now, but he really came on at the end of last season and, IMO, can carry a majority of the load. When Morency isn't on the field rookie back Brandon Jackson will be depended on and he has the vision and agility to play well in the NFL. If absolutely necessary Noah Herron can alos step in and he doesn't seem to be too bad of a third option.

Wide Receiver: Donald Driver, although he continues to age, is still a Pro Bowl caliber player that Brett can turst and Donald will make several plays throughout the season that will make Packers fans smile. Greg Jennings enters year two and he now knows what it takes to go through an entire NFL season. I expect him to show us more of his early season form on a more consistent basis this coming year. Ruvell Martin is a big target for Brett has a third option and he played well towards the end of last season. Former 2nd round pick Robert Ferguson returns from injury and his ability to perform will be something we will have to wait and see about. David Clowney may provide the Packers with their lone deep threat in the passing game if he's given an oppurtunity outside of special teams.

Offensive Line: All five starters will return and this group will only continue to improve as they learn to mesh as a unit. There's a good mix of proven veterans and bright and talented youngsters to complete the group. Kevin Barry returns from injury and rookie Allen Barbre provides the packers with alot of versatility along the line if someone were to go down for an extended period of time.

Defensive Line: This group only begins what is a very solid defensive unit. The defensive ends are extremely talented with Pro Bowler Aaron Kampan and Cullen Jenkins, who appears to be set for good things as the packers move him outside. Kabeer Gbaja Biamila is available on rushing downs and to fill in in case of injuries and he's not too bad of a backup option. The defensive tackle position was strong before the draft and got even stronger following the draft. Ryan Pickett, Corey Williams, and Colin Cole all played very well lasy year and then to add the 16th overall pick to this group will make them one of the best set of DTs in the league.

Linebackers: If I'm an opposing team I am very fearful of this part of the Packers defense. There's two sensational former 1st rounders in AJ Hawk and Nick Barnett and then there's Brady Poppinga who continues to learn the position but continues to make strides in becmoing a very good NFL player. Abdul Hodge and a host of rookie LBs round out htis unit that will scare many opposing teams when they come to Lambeau.

Secondary: Charles Woodson and Al Harris are staples at the corner postion and teams better think twice before throwing the ball in the irection of one of these two. The 3rd or 4th option at corner is still up in the air a bit but Patriclk Dendy showed a bit of promise towards the end of the last year and the Packers lone free agent addition, Frank Walker, has the athletism to make it in the NFL but his technique could use a little work. At safety Nick Collins will hold that post for the next decade and may see a few Pro Bowls before everything is said and done, but the other safety spot is up in the air. I don't expect rookie Aaron Rouse to compete for this position and it'll come down to Marquand Manuel and Marviel Underwood. Manuel struggled some in his first season with Green Bay but he can played at a better level than what we've seen. Underwood, who I expect will be the starter on opening day, was injured last year and never got to showcase how well he can play. He was a stud in college and I think he could be a very nice compliment to Nick Collins at safety.

Hope you like my analysis!

neko4
04-30-2007, 08:03 PM
We went into the draft NEEDING to address our WR and RB problem..sure we drafted a couple RB's to compete, but we did NOTHING that will help out immediately at WR. We had 2 3rd rounders and just had to give up one for Moss...instead we took James Jones. all I can say is, Brett I feel sorry for you

WR is a highly overated need. Im looking forward to seeing what Ruvell Martin and Greg Jennings are going to do this year. And yes I said RUVELL MARTIN.

neko4
04-30-2007, 08:07 PM
I don't expect rookie Aaron Rouse to compete for this position and it'll come down to Marquand Manuel and Marviel Underwood.

I liked it aside from that part, I have to defend guys from my highschool.

Moses
04-30-2007, 08:14 PM
WR is a highly overated need. Im looking forward to seeing what Ruvell Martin and Greg Jennings are going to do this year. And yes I said RUVELL MARTIN.

I have Ruvell Martin not making the team. Right now it's a tossup between DeShawn Wynn and Martin to make the final cut. I can't decide for sure yet, but as of now, Wynn is making the team.

PACKmanN
04-30-2007, 08:31 PM
I have Ruvell Martin not making the team. Right now it's a tossup between DeShawn Wynn and Martin to make the final cut. I can't decide for sure yet, but as of now, Wynn is making the team.

the final cut will could be;
OL- these are all young and they will be replaced by youth.
Kevin Barry, Tyson Walter, Junius Coston

RB- We got 2 rb in the draft no need for them.
PJ Pope, Arliss Beach, Noah Herron

TE- Clark Harris is the replacement.
Tory Humphrey

WR- We got 2 WR in the draft.
Calvin Russell, Chris Francies, Robert Ferguson, Carlton Brewster

DL-Unknown players.
Devarick Scandrett, Jason Hunter/KGB

LB-We got Bishop, Rory Johnson, and Simpson.
Tracy White, Marcus Randall, Spencer Havner, Tim Goodwell

DB- We got Rouse and these players arnt worth a roster, 50/50 on Bush.
Atari Bigby, Antonio Malone, Alvin Nnabuife, Tramon Williams, Jarrett Bush

ST- We drafted Corsby in the draft.
Dave Rayner

these are cutable players. These are 23 players that might be cut.

GB12
04-30-2007, 08:33 PM
I have Ruvell Martin not making the team. Right now it's a tossup between DeShawn Wynn and Martin to make the final cut. I can't decide for sure yet, but as of now, Wynn is making the team.

Yeah, I think Ferguson and Holiday are obvious choices as cuts at WR. martin could be as well depending on how many we keep. Though I think it would be best to keep 5 with Driver, Jennings, Clowney, Jones, and Martin.

M1Koter
04-30-2007, 08:35 PM
after reading prince's quality analysis on the team, it baffels me that some people think TT is running the team into the ground and that their gunna have a horrible season, that looks like a talented, young, and fun to watch team that I am very excited for. SOme people just don't have patients, we have been dreaming about the brew crew being this good for I don't know how long and now look at them, that team is good and it's going to be good for many years to come, packers are just following the same path

M1Koter
04-30-2007, 08:37 PM
the final cut will could be;
OL-
Kevin Barry, Tyson Walter, Junius Coston
RB-
PJ Pope, Arliss Beach, Noah Herron
TE-
Tory Humphrey
WR-
Calvin Russell, Chris Francies, Robert Ferguson, Carlton Brewster
DL-
Devarick Scandrett, Jason Hunter/KGB
LB-
Tracy White, Marcus Randall, Spencer Havner, Tim Goodwell
DB-
Atari Bigby, Antonio Malone, Alvin Nnabuife, Tramon Williams, Jarrett Bush
ST-
Dave Rayner

these are cutable players. These are 23 players that might be cut.

I think theres too much money tied into KGB to cut him, I think he's at least a quality 3rd down pass rusher

GB12
04-30-2007, 08:42 PM
the final cut will could be;
OL-
Kevin Barry, Tyson Walter, Junius Coston
RB-
PJ Pope, Arliss Beach, Noah Herron
TE-
Tory Humphrey
WR-
Calvin Russell, Chris Francies, Robert Ferguson, Carlton Brewster
DL-
Devarick Scandrett, Jason Hunter/KGB
LB-
Tracy White, Marcus Randall, Spencer Havner, Tim Goodwell
DB-
Atari Bigby, Antonio Malone, Alvin Nnabuife, Tramon Williams, Jarrett Bush
ST-
Dave Rayner

these are cutable players. These are 23 players that might be cut.

I really don't see KGB getting cut. He is still of use as a pass rusher. He carries a salary that he's not worth, but we'd be taking a big hit by cutting him anyway.

I think Herron has a good chance to make because he is very much in the mix for the #3 RB.

Barry could very well also. I see us going with 8 OL. Along with the starters it should be Moll, Barbre, and Barry.

I agree with the rest being gone. White and Rayner are the only others with a fighting chance, but that's an up hill battle.

PACKmanN
04-30-2007, 08:55 PM
these are all the PFA we signed
Juwan Simpson, LB, Alabama- makes the roster

Pat Murray, OG, Truman State- TC cut

Jerry Babb, QB, Louisiana-Lafayette- TC cut

Rory Johnson, LB, Mississippi- makes the roster

Larry Birdine, DE, Oklahoma- TC cut

Ryan Powdrell, FB, Southern California- makes the roster

Daniel Muir, DT, Kent State- TC cut

ny10804
04-30-2007, 09:01 PM
these are all the PFA we signed
Juwan Simpson, LB, Alabama- makes the roster

Pat Murray, OG, Truman State- TC cut

Jerry Babb, QB, Louisiana-Lafayette- TC cut

Rory Johnson, LB, Mississippi- makes the roster

Larry Birdine, DE, Oklahoma- TC cut

Ryan Powdrell, FB, Southern California- makes the roster

Daniel Muir, DT, Kent State- TC cut

The Packers kept 6 LBs last year. Counting Barnett, Hawk, Hodge, and Poppinga as sure things to make the roster, there's not enough room for those two LBs and Bishop.

I see Johnson making the roster - he will impress quickly -- and the last spot coming down to White and Bishop.

princefielder28
04-30-2007, 09:02 PM
I really don't see KGB getting cut. He is still of use as a pass rusher. He carries a salary that he's not worth, but we'd be taking a big hit by cutting him anyway.

I think Herron has a good chance to make because he is very much in the mix for the #3 RB.

Barry could very well also. I see us going with 8 OL. Along with the starters it should be Moll, Barbre, and Barry.

I agree with the rest being gone. White and Rayner are the only others with a fighting chance, but that's an up hill battle.

Agree with you GB

PACKmanN
04-30-2007, 09:07 PM
The Packers kept 6 LBs last year. Counting Barnett, Hawk, Hodge, and Poppinga as sure things to make the roster, there's not enough room for those two LBs and Bishop.

I see Johnson making the roster - he will impress quickly -- and the last spot coming down to White and Bishop.

How does White have much more talent then Juwan Simpson? We need to keep the best on our roster.

GB12
04-30-2007, 09:11 PM
The Packers kept 6 LBs last year. Counting Barnett, Hawk, Hodge, and Poppinga as sure things to make the roster, there's not enough room for those two LBs and Bishop.

I see Johnson making the roster - he will impress quickly -- and the last spot coming down to White and Bishop.

Like you I have been high on Johnson for a while. The thing is though he probably wouldn't be ready to start for at least 3 years if ever. I don't see White or Bishop ever as starters either, but they could get the spots over Johnson. They are both special teams stars so they would make somewhat of an impact right away where as Johson, while he could be a nice back up won't be a whole lot of use to us.

GB12
04-30-2007, 09:13 PM
How does White have much more talent then Juwan Simpson? We need to keep the best on our roster.

He never said that White has much more talent. I would easily take White still though. See my post below yours, it's not necessarily who is the best linebacker, but who will help the team most. I would still take White in both areas however.

ny10804
04-30-2007, 09:19 PM
He never said that White has much more talent. I would easily take White still though. See my post below yours, it's not necessarily who is the best linebacker, but who will help the team most. I would still take White in both areas however.


Another thing on this thought: Rory Johnson has the speed and quickness to be a special teams demon. He ran a 4.59 at the combine and had the second fastest 20 yard shuttle time at 4.07. He also had an extremely impressive vertical of 38 inches. This guy is an explosive athlete who would do very well on coverage teams.

GB12
04-30-2007, 09:23 PM
Another thing on this thought: Rory Johnson has the speed and quickness to be a special teams demon. He ran a 4.59 at the combine and had the second fastest 20 yard shuttle time at 4.07. He also had an extremely impressive vertical of 38 inches. This guy is an explosive athlete who would do very well on coverage teams.

Well, We'll see how does with that in the preseason then. Should he be better, the same, or just very slightly worse than White I would gladly take Johnson. I do want Bishop for sure though.

roughrider30
04-30-2007, 09:34 PM
after reading prince's quality analysis on the team, it baffels me that some people think TT is running the team into the ground and that their gunna have a horrible season, that looks like a talented, young, and fun to watch team that I am very excited for. SOme people just don't have patients, we have been dreaming about the brew crew being this good for I don't know how long and now look at them, that team is good and it's going to be good for many years to come, packers are just following the same path

I totally agree. TTs strategies of trading down and drafting players might not pay off right away, but in the long run this WILL work. I love the fact that he doesn't buy into the mediocre free agents and spend money on them just because we have the cap room. All of the fans thinking TT is running the team into the ground just show how little football knowledge they have. Hes not spending money on old washed up, big name free agents and trading our future and picks. Did anyone really expect us to be a super bowl quality team this year regardless of the draft? So why not build for the next couple years so we can have a super bowl team on the field.

jackalope
04-30-2007, 09:58 PM
We should have a greatly improved special teams this year, on kick coverage, and with the addition of Mason Crosby.

johbur
04-30-2007, 11:30 PM
Did anyone really expect us to be a super bowl quality team this year regardless of the draft? So why not build for the next couple years so we can have a super bowl team on the field.

Just no. What was Chicago's record two years ago? New England's in 2000? St. Louis' in 1998? New Orleans in 2005? Turnaround and winning are what the NFL is about.

That "next couple of years thing doesn't work in the NFL. If things don't improve yearly, and you're not a playoff team sooner than later, the coach and the GM will not be there. That means that a new system is brought in. The roster gets turned over. And you're back to rebuilding. Teams have to made for winning in the current year, with improvement coming year to year. If the Packers go less than 8-8, will MM be asked back? Howabout if they go 10-6 and make the playoffs. They were a couple plays away last year from making the playoffs. If you don't match the growth of the teams you compete against, you lose.

San Diego had Super Bowl aspirations, lost, now they have a new coach. Jon Gruden has a Super Bowl ring, but if he doesn't win this year, there'll be pressure to move on. Maybe he'll replace McCarthy in 2008 if the Packers are on the 5 year plan and come in and take the rewards of all the slow building and player development.

Know the facts about the league and how things really are, before saying that others don't have football knowledge and just need patience. I'm sure they said that in the 70's and 80's. Then a Wolf came along, he huffed and he puffed and he blew that losing tradition off championship trophies and gave them the shine of competitiveness.

It's nice Ted has a whole bunch of draft picks every year, but he could have had some proven players this year, with the type of production his picks last year had, and without the injury history, and at positions that aren't as stocked on the roster. When needs don't get addressed, like OGs in 2005, people start losing their jobs. If the TE produces like it did last year, and the nickel back gets flamed like last year, and a guy like DD or Jennings gets hurt and there's a bunch of UDFAs as your playmakers, then there will be a reckoning at the end of the year.

TT has a good eye for guys that others might pass on, with Barbre being my favorite choice this year, but he needs to get back to picking some of the types of guys he acquired in Seattle, like S.A. TT also has acquired a habit for GB of picking these unknowns and taking guys rounds before other teams even considered them, and guys from little schools. His Seattle roster was filled with plenty of big conference players, though he has always shown a tendency to trade down. Maybe GB's scouting staff is just better than Seattle's and the othe 30 clubs' scouting staffs and he is getting better players that the other teams don't have on their radar.

Every fan wants the packers to do well, to be competitive THIS year. If you don't want them to win this year, then what type of fan are you? Maybe one of those guys, "I hope we lose our last four games, because at 4-12 again, we could get either Calvin Johnson or Joe Thomas!" I'll take a pass on that type of building.

Football Fan
05-01-2007, 01:39 AM
Worst team in the league with dropped passes, no veteran tight end added, no veteran wide receiver added, no veteran running back added. The packers hung our offence out to dry and for no reason, money was not an issue and there was plenty of cheap help out there. This will be the fulcrom point of Thompsons career in Green Bay. The pack better score some points this year or his head should and will be on the chopping block. The fans will be calling for it. The way he has handled the offence is absurd and anyone that follows the packers at all knows it or there head is up there or his you know what.
I am absolutely pissed off at the opportunities that have been blown this off season to improve the offence.

Football Fan
05-01-2007, 02:28 AM
Mike Vandermause column: Play-it-safe Thompson holds back the Packers


By Mike Vandermause

The Green Bay Packers were the big losers Sunday in the Randy Moss sweepstakes.


A Moss trade to Green Bay has been rumored for most of the offseason, but the Packers couldn't close the deal.


They weren't aggressive enough in attempting to land a desperately needed offensive playmaker, and it will come back to haunt them. Somewhere in Mississippi, quarterback Brett Favre must be frowning.


Instead of adding a proven Pro Bowl receiver, the Packers' idea of helping Favre over the weekend was to draft a pair of unproven wideouts who will be hard-pressed to make an immediate impact.


The New England Patriots were the big winners in the Moss derby. They secured Moss' services for the bargain-basement price of a fourth-round draft choice and a reported $3 million in compensation in 2007.


Ted Thompson, the Packers' general manager, has taken a measured, cautious approach to building the roster. There are benefits to that philosophy, in which Thompson leans heavily on the draft and accumulating extra picks, mixes in occasional free-agent signings, and focuses on retaining solid players on the roster.


But there's a significant flaw in Thompson's strategy. At some point, a team has to be willing to take a risk, and Thompson seems unable or unwilling to do that. The safe way is not always the best way.


Former Packers GM Ron Wolf was a master at throwing caution to the wind. In 1992, he traded a first-round draft choice for Favre, who was a third-string quarterback. In 1993, he handed over a boatload of money to sign free-agent Reggie White. In 1995, he traded a second-round pick for tight end Keith Jackson. Those were key moves that helped build a Super Bowl championship team.


That go-for-the-throat mentality appears to be lacking in Thompson, who seems too willing to allow other teams to force the action and dictate terms.


His passive approach has left the Packers without a go-to running back. Thompson was outbid by the Houston Texans for free-agent Ahman Green during the offseason, and he wasn't willing to move up in the first round to select a premier back. In fact, Thompson never has traded up in the draft.


Besides an untested backfield, Favre will be forced to live with one bona fide star receiver Donald Driver and a collection of players high on potential and low on experience.


Thompson would do well to heed the advice of Wolf, who last week offered his philosophy on targeting certain players, either in the draft or on the trade market.


"The bottom line was, if you really wanted a guy, go get the guy," Wolf said. "So what if you gave too much? You would try to make that up some other way. The key was, make sure you got the guy you wanted to get."


The Packers failed to get Moss, a player Favre would have welcomed with open arms. The result is the Packers, who ranked a lowly 22nd in points scored last season, likely will continue to struggle on offense.


Asked Sunday if he needs to be more aggressive for the Packers to reach the next level, Thompson replied: "What we try to do is everything in our power to help to make this team as good as it can be."


Thompson needs to venture outside his comfort zone and try harder. Only then will the Packers be as good as they can be.


He speaks for me.

princefielder28
05-01-2007, 06:38 AM
Worst team in the league with dropped passes, no veteran tight end added, no veteran wide receiver added, no veteran running back added. The packers hung our offence out to dry and for no reason, money was not an issue and there was plenty of cheap help out there. This will be the fulcrom point of Thompsons career in Green Bay. The pack better score some points this year or his head should and will be on the chopping block. The fans will be calling for it. The way he has handled the offence is absurd and anyone that follows the packers at all knows it or there head is up there or his you know what.
I am absolutely pissed off at the opportunities that have been blown this off season to improve the offence.

Free agency was pretty dead anyways and if you wanted to get a player then you had to bend over backwards to get him; it wasn't a bad idea to stay away from FA this year.

PackAttack
05-01-2007, 09:59 AM
Free agency was pretty dead anyways and if you wanted to get a player then you had to bend over backwards to get him; it wasn't a bad idea to stay away from FA this year.

Agreed. It isn't worth mortgaging our future to overpay for someone who MAY help us now. I'm still very much a fan of building through the draft.

I really think a lot of us will be surprised at how well the Pack does this year. We have a very good coaching staff and a strong core of youthful TALENT. Guys, our entire o-line is coming back this year and they looked pretty good together toward the end of last year....now they will have an offseason together to gel. I see Favre getting more time to throw and better holes being opened up for a group of RBs perfectly suited for the ZBS. I see Driver getting his 80 catches/1200 yards like always only this year he'll have a healthy, stronger, smarter Jennings along side him to add in another 60-70 catches and 900 yards. I wouldn't at all be surprised to see James Jones take down 30 receptions, many of which will be first downs. And Clowney is going to bring in another 20-30 catches with an average YPC of 18+.

And let's not forget our defense. They came on STRONG as the year went on and they got more comfortable in the scheme. Now, at least 9 of 11 starters return, many of whom are young.....one more year of quality coaching and experience and I see our defense being top 10.

Top 10 Defense, Top 20 Offense = Playoffs.

We're just a couple years away from the Super Bowl. Really. Within 5 years TOPS we wil be in the Super Bowl.

Nitschke-Hawk
05-01-2007, 10:09 AM
^^only 2 teams make the Super Bowl, I think we'll be good but Favre can't carry us forever.

M1Koter
05-01-2007, 11:35 AM
Worst team in the league with dropped passes, no veteran tight end added, no veteran wide receiver added, no veteran running back added. The packers hung our offence out to dry and for no reason, money was not an issue and there was plenty of cheap help out there. This will be the fulcrom point of Thompsons career in Green Bay. The pack better score some points this year or his head should and will be on the chopping block. The fans will be calling for it. The way he has handled the offence is absurd and anyone that follows the packers at all knows it or there head is up there or his you know what.
I am absolutely pissed off at the opportunities that have been blown this off season to improve the offence.

there were no vetern RB's to add, Ahman Green was the best avalible and he signed with Huston for way more than he should have got. The only good WR avaible was Moss and we don't need a starter. Were not going to win a super bowl or even come close in the next 2 years, moss would would have only been with us for 2 years, we got 2 quality starters, Morency has been working his arse off in the offseason and deserves the starting position, Jackosn fits the ZBS and will excell in the system. TT is an excellent GM and is taking this team in the right direction, The way he handels the offense? perfectly, gets the guys that fit the system. I'll agree that we needed a TE but there wern't any avaible, Olson wasn't worth the #16 and Miller was picked early 2nd and after that there wern't any good TE's avaible, that guy from miami was washed up forgot his name, McMichal I think, he's not nearly the player he was, so there wasn't any from FA or the draft, and that o-line is going to be solid, thanks to TT, the offense is going to be solid this year, but the D will be beastly

Whistler6
05-01-2007, 12:07 PM
WOOT WOOT Rory Johnson a packer yes! Randy Moss didnt want to restruct his contract for us so why would u want to waste a 3rd on him and pay the guy 9-10 million a year????


MOSS SAID HE WOULD RESTRUCTURE HIS CONTRACT IF HE CAME TO GREEN BAY AS HE DID WITH THE PATRIOTS

Gravedigger42
05-01-2007, 12:12 PM
For those that think the draft was a miserable failure, who would you have rather The Pack picked at 16?

Hall - Potential to be an average CB in his carrer maybe a pro bowl or 2.
Nelson - A dumb as rocks cover saftey
Meachem - A decent prospect but won't help for 2-3 years as is typical with WR's
Bowe - same as above
Olsen - A late first to ealry second round TE that people were over valuing because he had a good combine and the TE class this year is weak

Basically we got a high risk guy in that, at the beginning of the season, was considered an early round 1 pick. A guy that played a game after sustaining an season ending injury just because he knew how big the game agianst a div. rival was. A guy that was in so much pain that he had tears in his eyes coming off the field after plays and kept going back in. This guy is a gamer that might prove to be the best defensive player in the whole draft. He might not either but considereing the other choices I say nice pick.

There is no way that TT could put The Pack in position to compete for a SB with what was available this year. I feel bad for Brett that he probably won't get his last shot at another title. The facts are that that would be true no matter what TT did this offseason. Moss would be just as much a crap shoot as some of our daft picks. He never won a SB with Minny or Oakland so what makes everyone think that this guy would be our savior?

roughrider30
05-01-2007, 01:31 PM
Know the facts about the league and how things really are, before saying that others don't have football knowledge and just need patience. I'm sure they said that in the 70's and 80's. Then a Wolf came along, he huffed and he puffed and he blew that losing tradition off championship trophies and gave them the shine of competitiveness.

It's nice Ted has a whole bunch of draft picks every year, but he could have had some proven players this year, with the type of production his picks last year had, and without the injury history, and at positions that aren't as stocked on the roster. When needs don't get addressed, like OGs in 2005, people start losing their jobs. If the TE produces like it did last year, and the nickel back gets flamed like last year, and a guy like DD or Jennings gets hurt and there's a bunch of UDFAs as your playmakers, then there will be a reckoning at the end of the year.

TT has a good eye for guys that others might pass on, with Barbre being my favorite choice this year, but he needs to get back to picking some of the types of guys he acquired in Seattle, like S.A. TT also has acquired a habit for GB of picking these unknowns and taking guys rounds before other teams even considered them, and guys from little schools. His Seattle roster was filled with plenty of big conference players, though he has always shown a tendency to trade down. Maybe GB's scouting staff is just better than Seattle's and the othe 30 clubs' scouting staffs and he is getting better players that the other teams don't have on their radar.

Every fan wants the packers to do well, to be competitive THIS year. If you don't want them to win this year, then what type of fan are you? Maybe one of those guys, "I hope we lose our last four games, because at 4-12 again, we could get either Calvin Johnson or Joe Thomas!" I'll take a pass on that type of building.

First of all, where in my whole post did I talk about not wanting to be competitive? In dont know how you got "I hope we lose our last four games, because at 4-12 again, we could get either Calvin Johnson or Joe Thomas!"

I was saying that we were a 4-12 team 2 years ago and last year we showed great improvement and went 8-8. This year I expect us to improve again and compete for a playoff spot. If you realistically thought we had a shot at a tittle this year you are greatly mistaken. I obviously would love to see Favre go out on top, but it just didn't seem realistic this year.I'm actually still confused what you want out of this team, since you were bashing the way TT was running the team in you last post, but you sig is contradicting your post.

What did you expect out of the draft that would make us all of a sudden a contender for the Super Bowl. Yes, there are a few examples of teams that have gone from bad to a contender in a short time, and thanks for the history lesson. The truth is a quick fix doesn't always work for every team, and in the Saints case they didn't have a bad team, it was more of a case of them being in a bad situation with Hurricane Katrina and all. They had more talent than a 4-12 team that year.

Football Fan
05-01-2007, 02:22 PM
There was plenty of veteran help at several positions on offence at a price well within the teams capabilities and not neccesarily rip offs. Particularly tightend, wide receiver full back and maybe running back. I really hate the idea of going back to dig up the names but even the casual observer can come up with several. Moss, jackson, the tightend from miami,there were a couple fullbacks, but i have to go to work now so im not going to write a book here. Plain and simple there was plenty of upgradable help to get us by while our draft picks gather the experience. As for the draft time will tell. Its the blatent neglect to the offence that was unneccesary and rediculous and mosses low asking price was inexcusable considering the dramatic upgrade he would have been. 3 mill for 1 year bahhhh. no excuse and basically no position adressed, come on. Thats just sad.

PackAttack
05-01-2007, 03:37 PM
I doubt we go after him but....

what do you think the chances are we go after Keyshawn Johnson now that he got cut?

He could be a pretty solid #3 if he'd be willing to play that role and would be a great guy to teach our younger wideouts for a year or two.

GB12
05-01-2007, 03:42 PM
I doubt we go after him but....

what do you think the chances are we go after Keyshawn Johnson now that he got cut?

He could be a pretty solid #3 if he'd be willing to play that role and would be a great guy to teach our younger wideouts for a year or two.
No. I wouldn't mind it, but then we'd have to cut someone else. Thompson will rather keep his young drafted guys than Keyshawn Johnson. But think about this WR corp: Driver/Jennings/Johnson/Clowney/Jones.

PackAttack
05-01-2007, 04:16 PM
No. I wouldn't mind it, but then we'd have to cut someone else. Thompson will rather keep his young drafted guys than Keyshawn Johnson. But think about this WR corp: Driver/Jennings/Johnson/Clowney/Jones.

Exactly! I doubt it will happen but that would be a VERY SOLID WR group.

That's 3 guys fully capable of 70 receptions. And having Driver and Johnson as mentors would be huge for the younger guys development.

Oh well....nice to dream :)

PACKmanN
05-01-2007, 04:44 PM
KJ isnt worth a dime and we just signed UDFA Tristan Burge, S, Eastern Illinois.

princefielder28
05-01-2007, 05:19 PM
Exactly! I doubt it will happen but that would be a VERY SOLID WR group.

That's 3 guys fully capable of 70 receptions. And having Driver and Johnson as mentors would be huge for the younger guys development.

Oh well....nice to dream :)

I would like to see Keyshawn added to the roster and then the Packers could cut or trade Martin and Ferguson and then DD and KJ can mentor Jennings, Jones, and Clowney

PACKmanN
05-01-2007, 05:25 PM
KJ will be in ESPN replacing Michael Ervin.

princefielder28
05-01-2007, 05:26 PM
KJ will be in ESPN replacing Michael Ervin.

That would be great! I hate Irvin with a passion.

PackAttack
05-01-2007, 05:50 PM
That would be great! I hate Irvin with a passion.

Me too...he's a total douche

narf029
05-01-2007, 07:11 PM
Me too...he's a total douche

This might just be me... but did anybody else think Keyshawn and Michael Irvin are basically the exact same analyst? If Keyshawn remotely resembled Michael Irvin I wouldn't have even noticed a change. The best was when Keyshawn brought himself into the comparisons for all the good big WRs lol. I wouldn't really want him though for Green Bay. Besides, he wants a SB so he'd probably sign with a team that he KNOWS has a SB roster (not to take anything away from GB's team)

Hawk
05-01-2007, 10:15 PM
http://www.davidclowney.com/

princefielder28
05-02-2007, 06:53 AM
http://www.davidclowney.com/

nice sig!!

jackalope
05-02-2007, 07:20 AM
I just heard on the radio that John Stocco will try out for us at rookie mini-camps. I doubt he'll beat out Ingle, but I love that we're brining him in.

M1Koter
05-02-2007, 07:50 AM
I'd love to see them at least keep Stocco for a practice squad

Football Fan
05-02-2007, 10:01 AM
Bring in keshawn, the team desperately needs veterans that can catch the ball at receiver and tight end. The rookies need to be groomed not thrown into the fire. Every team should play to win expecting anything less is just poor leadership on managements part.
Not saying the roster should be nothing but veterans with low upsides and no potential to be great, but a reasonal mix to be functional on offence or defense should be common sense. There may be more opportunities before the season but something needs to be done.

Football Fan
05-02-2007, 10:04 AM
Keshawn may be a pest, but he is no crack smoking punk rapist with a large list of felony type run ins with the law.

Football Fan
05-02-2007, 10:20 AM
In fact I just remembered the time irvin pulled a knife out on a teamate in a locker room. Irvin is just a pathetic human. Keshawn is just self centered and overly demanding at times. Nothing good coaches cant handle. The 2 people really are completely different other than the self centered type attitudes.

Football Fan
05-02-2007, 10:35 AM
Its also inevidable that larger than usual amounts of draft picks are going to be cut when you draft 33 or 34 players mostly in the lower rounds over the last 3 years, which is what happens when you take quantity over quality in back to back to back years. Not saying the strategy is bad, but at some point there is no room on the roster or a reasonable amount of established pros.

neko4
05-02-2007, 10:38 AM
I wanna bring in Key. Hes not the idiot he once was and is a decent 2 or 3

M1Koter
05-02-2007, 11:21 AM
Its also inevidable that larger than usual amounts of draft picks are going to be cut when you draft 33 or 34 players mostly in the lower rounds over the last 3 years, which is what happens when you take quantity over quality in back to back to back years. Not saying the strategy is bad, but at some point there is no room on the roster or a reasonable amount of established pros.

Thats really not a bad thing, if we have to cut quality players, that just means the players we kept are even better. It provides us with quality depth, we don't have to depend on just one guy to devlop for a potstion, we can have a number of guys competing, and with so many 2nd day guys, someone is destined to be a suprise

PackAttack
05-02-2007, 01:15 PM
Thats really not a bad thing, if we have to cut quality players, that just means the players we kept are even better. It provides us with quality depth, we don't have to depend on just one guy to devlop for a potstion, we can have a number of guys competing, and with so many 2nd day guys, someone is destined to be a suprise

I agree. Bringing in that much youth creates an atmosphere of competition. It brings out the best in players when they know there are 2 or 3 other guys fighting for the same position. They then have to really make an impression to make the roster.

I don't mind having some tough cuts in the end if it means we end up with a team full of quality depth.

princefielder28
05-02-2007, 02:16 PM
I agree. Bringing in that much youth creates an atmosphere of competition. It brings out the best in players when they know there are 2 or 3 other guys fighting for the same position. They then have to really make an impression to make the roster.

I don't mind having some tough cuts in the end if it means we end up with a team full of quality depth.

If you have to cut quality players it just shows how deep and talented your team is and with as young as the Packers are, it shows how deep our young talent is.

johbur
05-02-2007, 03:03 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-packers042907&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Nice summation of the draft for a lot of Packers fans.

jackalope
05-02-2007, 04:53 PM
I'd love to see them at least keep Stocco for a practice squadYeah, I'm hoping he makes it on our practice squad, as I don't see him beating out Ingle.

ny10804
05-02-2007, 10:29 PM
Just thought I'd post this here:

I'll homeristically toss the Green Bay Packers' Defensive Line into the mix (for the best 4-3 DL).

For 4-3 teams, Green Bay was second in the NFL with 46 sacks, trailing Miami's 47, and first in sack yards at 337. They were 8th (again, for 4-3 DLs) in rushing yards at 1825, but the bulk of this number came prior to Cullen Jenkins' ascension to the LDE position. Jenkins was hampered with an ankle injury to begin the year, and did not regain full strength towards the middle of the season.

Aaron Kampman set the benchmark for all 4-3 DEs with 89 tackles and 15.5 sacks, both tops for the position. DT Ryan Pickett was second among 4-3 DTs with 64 tackles. DT Corey Williams was third among 4-3 DTs with 7 sacks. Jenkins chipped in 6.5 sacks, and Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila added 6.

This past week, Green Bay drafted a fully healthy Justin Harrell, a run-stopping DT to team with 322 lb. Ryan Pickett on first and second down. Along with 270 lb. Kampman and 295 lb. Jenkins at the DE spots, the DL figures to be a force against the run. On passing downs, the speedy KGB would replace Jenkins, who would slide over to DT, Corey Williams would come in at the second DT spot, and Kampman would remain in. These are the Packers four best pass rushers, and look to pick up where they left off in '06.

I'm looking forward to seeing what this group is capable of doing. Another thing to add is that Pickett and Harrell will help keep blockers off Nick Barnett and A.J. Hawk, a characteristic of most good run defenses.

PackAttack
05-03-2007, 01:16 AM
Just thought I'd post this here:

very well written and right on the mark.

I'll be saying it all offseason so sorry for being repetitious :) but....this will be a Top 10 Defense for sure this year. We will be very very strong against the run (I forsee us being Top 5 versus the run) and should be much improved against the pass with better safety and LB play.

I'm very excited to see this defense this year and into the future.

M1Koter
05-03-2007, 06:31 AM
that D-line will be scary good

umphrey
05-03-2007, 10:43 AM
UDFA signings:

Jerry Babb: Broke some of Delhomme's records, see article here
http://www.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070501/PKR01/705010551/1989


# Offensive lineman Pat Murray of Truman State. Murray (6-3, 312) played mostly right tackle and was an honorable mention, all-America selection in Division II.

# Linebacker Rory Johnson of Mississippi. Johnson (6-0, 232) played alongside first-round draft pick Patrick Willis and also was somewhat highly regarded. However, Johnson, who left after his junior season, reportedly tested positive for marijuana.

# Linebacker Juwan Simpson of Alabama. Simpson (6-2, 225) played in the Senior Bowl. His draft stock may have been affected by an arrest last summer for having marijuana and an unlicensed handgun in his car.

# Defensive end Larry Birdine of Oklahoma. Birdine (6-3, 261) is the half-brother of Jason Gildon, who played linebacker in the NFL for 11 years. His cousin, Jammal Brown, is a tackle for the Saints.

# Defensive end/defensive tackle Daniel Muir of Kent State. Muir (6-2, 285) was a first-team, all-Mid-American Conference pick last season.

# Fullback Ryan Powdrell of Southern California. Powdrell (6-0, 250) was switched from linebacker to fullback before the 2006 season but played only game at his new position. He ran a 4.9 40-yard dash during his pro day at USC.

princefielder28
05-03-2007, 02:03 PM
John Stocco is coming in as well which is kinda neat b/c he's a Badger

TitleTown088
05-03-2007, 03:44 PM
Brandon Jackson
http://media2.620wtmj.com/wmn/070503_BrandonJackson.mp3

ny10804
05-03-2007, 04:02 PM
Brandon Jackson
http://media2.620wtmj.com/wmn/070503_BrandonJackson.mp3

Here's Justin Harrell's from after the draft: http://media2.620wtmj.com/packers/2007%20NFL%20Draft/NFL_DRAFT_Justin_Harrell.mp3

I think he sets a record for most "like I said"s in a single interview.

jackalope
05-03-2007, 04:42 PM
July 28th baby. Can't wait.

princefielder28
05-03-2007, 05:08 PM
July 28th baby. Can't wait.

Hey, it's less than 2 months away :)

GB12
05-03-2007, 06:31 PM
Michael Smith just said that the Packers are one of the teams interested in Keyshawn.

princefielder28
05-03-2007, 06:33 PM
Michael Smith just said that the Packers are one of the teams interested in Keyshawn.

I like the idea of brining him as another veteran with this young team.

neko4
05-03-2007, 07:04 PM
I love the Babb, Rory and Juwan pickups

TitleTown088
05-03-2007, 07:10 PM
Michael Smith just said that the Packers are one of the teams interested in Keyshawn.

Oh god. I hope not. Keyshawn said he would only play for a superbowl favortie anyways I think..

M1Koter
05-03-2007, 07:11 PM
Oh god. I hope not. Keyshawn said he would only play for a superbowl favortie anyways I think..

I agree, I don't think he'll want to come to the pack

narf029
05-03-2007, 08:43 PM
Especially considering we know TT won't overpay for anybody. Someone is going to offer Keyshawn a lot more money, so even if it's about money and not about a super bowl, I don't like our chances.

Or maybe I'm just being optimistic because I don't want to sign him.

djcoreylee
05-03-2007, 09:09 PM
Are you kidding me>Keyshawn would have nothing but a positive effect on the Packers. He wants to teach young recievers and who has more then the pack!

cuzifelt1ikeit
05-03-2007, 09:12 PM
i would be all for getting him. but its not going to happen we wont give him what he wants

princefielder28
05-03-2007, 09:13 PM
i would be all for getting him. but its not going to happen we wont give him what he wants

When it comes down to money we just won't offer enough compared to other teams

PACKmanN
05-03-2007, 10:00 PM
Keyshawn offers nothing to the packers, he was cut for Jarrett could start, we dont need him.

GB12
05-03-2007, 11:42 PM
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=600950 Link

I'm actually for this move. We got some WRs in the draft and they deserve a chance to prove themselves, but we have no one for the red zone. I'd gladly cut Martin for Keyshawn.

Football Fan
05-04-2007, 02:16 AM
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=600950 Link

I'm actually for this move. We got some WRs in the draft and they deserve a chance to prove themselves, but we have no one for the red zone. I'd gladly cut Martin for Keyshawn.
Thats a good sign, god I hope we get some verteran help. Those dropped passes and the terrible red zone play last year would be very difficult to watch again this year and probably rule out the playoffs.

princefielder28
05-04-2007, 06:43 AM
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=600950 Link

I'm actually for this move. We got some WRs in the draft and they deserve a chance to prove themselves, but we have no one for the red zone. I'd gladly cut Martin for Keyshawn.

I feel the same way

narf029
05-04-2007, 05:54 PM
Are you kidding me>Keyshawn would have nothing but a positive effect on the Packers. He wants to teach young recievers and who has more then the pack!

Right, the problem is if we sign Keyshawn we'd likely have Driver, Jennings, Keyshawn, Jones, and Clowney, because I doubt we cut either of the rookies after investing draft picks in both. Driver has nothing to learn, Jennings and Clowney are both speed receivers who would not be able to learn a thing from Keyshawn, a 6'4'' possession receiver. Jones is a possession receiver, but he's not a jump ball, throw it up and I'll get it type of guy like Keyshawn was in his prime. When you heard about Keyshawn teaching Dwayne Jarrett all he needs to know, that's because the 2 are virtually the same player, Jarrett needs to use his body more, and that's Keyshawn's specialty. 2nd of all, Keyshawn's not even that good. He hasn't had a 1000 yard season since 2002. He had something like 800 yards and 4 TDs last year (and he had a big game against the Vikings if I remember right, so that barely even counts). Keyshawn has been cut twice in the past 2 years. That isn't random, there's a reason he's been cut. He's overpaid for what he does, and he just doesn't produce anymore.

princefielder28
05-04-2007, 06:38 PM
Right, the problem is if we sign Keyshawn we'd likely have Driver, Jennings, Keyshawn, Jones, and Clowney, because I doubt we cut either of the rookies after investing draft picks in both. Driver has nothing to learn, Jennings and Clowney are both speed receivers who would not be able to learn a thing from Keyshawn, a 6'4'' possession receiver. Jones is a possession receiver, but he's not a jump ball, throw it up and I'll get it type of guy like Keyshawn was in his prime. When you heard about Keyshawn teaching Dwayne Jarrett all he needs to know, that's because the 2 are virtually the same player, Jarrett needs to use his body more, and that's Keyshawn's specialty. 2nd of all, Keyshawn's not even that good. He hasn't had a 1000 yard season since 2002. He had something like 800 yards and 4 TDs last year (and he had a big game against the Vikings if I remember right, so that barely even counts). Keyshawn has been cut twice in the past 2 years. That isn't random, there's a reason he's been cut. He's overpaid for what he does, and he just doesn't produce anymore.

First of all, Keyshawn can teach those young receivers something even though he's a possession wideout and they're speedsters. He can teach them about the right way of playing the game at the position, what to look for when going up against DBs, and other aspects of the game that comes with being a veteran. He would be an asset more than a harm to this team and if they brought him in I would fully support it.

GB12
05-04-2007, 08:04 PM
First of all, Keyshawn can teach those young receivers something even though he's a possession wideout and they're speedsters. He can teach them about the right way of playing the game at the position, what to look for when going up against DBs, and other aspects of the game that comes with being a veteran. He would be an asset more than a harm to this team and if they brought him in I would fully support it.

I made a long post saying something similar, but then the site crashed.

To add to that, Keyshawn would be the red zone threat that we are currently missing.

Hawk
05-04-2007, 09:44 PM
http://cornfromajar.blogspot.com/2006/09/justin-harrell-doesnt-eat-honey-he.html

princefielder28
05-04-2007, 10:18 PM
I made a long post saying something similar, but then the site crashed.

To add to that, Keyshawn would be the red zone threat that we are currently missing.

After how poorly our tight ends played last year, especially the red zone, we need that threat and GB12 you're right with Keyshawn providing that.

Nitschke-Hawk
05-05-2007, 01:19 AM
http://cornfromajar.blogspot.com/2006/09/justin-harrell-doesnt-eat-honey-he.html

Hahaha, that's pretty funny.

You guys like my new sig? my boy kalbears13 did it after i responded to the brady quinn design, it's Brett Favre going up a ramp on a wheelchair doing the Lambeau Roll, cause he's gettin up there in age. :)

Football Fan
05-05-2007, 01:55 AM
Right, the problem is if we sign Keyshawn we'd likely have Driver, Jennings, Keyshawn, Jones, and Clowney, because I doubt we cut either of the rookies after investing draft picks in both. Driver has nothing to learn, Jennings and Clowney are both speed receivers who would not be able to learn a thing from Keyshawn, a 6'4'' possession receiver. Jones is a possession receiver, but he's not a jump ball, throw it up and I'll get it type of guy like Keyshawn was in his prime. When you heard about Keyshawn teaching Dwayne Jarrett all he needs to know, that's because the 2 are virtually the same player, Jarrett needs to use his body more, and that's Keyshawn's specialty. 2nd of all, Keyshawn's not even that good. He hasn't had a 1000 yard season since 2002. He had something like 800 yards and 4 TDs last year (and he had a big game against the Vikings if I remember right, so that barely even counts). Keyshawn has been cut twice in the past 2 years. That isn't random, there's a reason he's been cut. He's overpaid for what he does, and he just doesn't produce anymore.The packers cant be run like a farm team, they also have to have proven players that can handle the big time. The way Thomson is running the pack they will always have a boat load of prospects and have to cut many low rounders and undrafted players after they are evaluated.There is only so many roster spots and the goal is to win games. That is going to take a good mix of proven players and quality youth that will eventually replace them when theres skills have been surpassed. A continuous cycle. Its up to Thomson to out evaluate the rest of the nfl teams in order to reach the super bowl.

Football Fan
05-05-2007, 02:17 AM
I think Thomson might be willing to cut clowney or jones. I think the wide receiver group is going to have to put up the numbers or be cut. The pack wont have the conveniance of being able to hold onto someone based on potential this year. 2 veteran and basically 4 rookies wont cut if you count jennings as a vet plus he could hit the 2nd year wall. Ferg hasnt ever been reliable and I dont know if they keep him if they do its for special teams. Keyshawn would make sense.

TitleTown088
05-05-2007, 03:52 AM
Hahaha, that's pretty funny.
. :)

Take that ******* sig outta here before I come pull your brains out with a coat hanger you traitor. Never make fun of miein furor, ever agian.

princefielder28
05-05-2007, 08:32 AM
Hahaha, that's pretty funny.

You guys like my new sig? my boy kalbears13 did it after i responded to the brady quinn design, it's Brett Favre going up a ramp on a wheelchair doing the Lambeau Roll, cause he's gettin up there in age. :)

It's a decent sig

princefielder28
05-05-2007, 08:42 AM
On draft day Ted Thompson rejected a trade offer from the Cleveland Browns that would've sent the 16th pick, Packers 2nd rounder, 3rd rounder, and 4th rounder for Cleveland's 2008 1st rounder, 2007 2nd rounder, 3rd rounder, and 4th rounder. So pretty much we swap 2nd, 3rd, and 4ths this past year and they would've gotten our 1st this past year and we would've gotten their 1st next year. IMO, that would have been touhg to reject given what that pick could be worth. The Browns play in the tough a$$ AFC with the Steelers, Ravens, Bengals in their division. We could have had a Top 10 pick next year.

PackAttack
05-05-2007, 10:03 AM
On draft day Ted Thompson rejected a trade offer from the Cleveland Browns that would've sent the 16th pick, Packers 2nd rounder, 3rd rounder, and 4th rounder for Cleveland's 2008 1st rounder, 2007 2nd rounder, 3rd rounder, and 4th rounder. So pretty much we swap 2nd, 3rd, and 4ths this past year and they would've gotten our 1st this past year and we would've gotten their 1st next year. IMO, that would have been touhg to reject given what that pick could be worth. The Browns play in the tough a$$ AFC with the Steelers, Ravens, Bengals in their division. We could have had a Top 10 pick next year.

This would have been a bad trade for the Packers. Future draft picks are typically valued down one round so basically we would have been giving up our 1st rounder for the value of a 2nd rounder. There is no way of knowing where next year's 1st from the Browns would be and what type of value would have been available there in terms of players.

Now, had the Browns offered next year's 1st rounder and this year's 2nd and 3rd or 2nd and 4th straight up I may have considered it a good trade.

johbur
05-05-2007, 10:12 AM
I think Thomson might be willing to cut clowney or jones. I think the wide receiver group is going to have to put up the numbers or be cut. The pack wont have the conveniance of being able to hold onto someone based on potential this year. 2 veteran and basically 4 rookies wont cut if you count jennings as a vet plus he could hit the 2nd year wall. Ferg hasnt ever been reliable and I dont know if they keep him if they do its for special teams. Keyshawn would make sense.

I think you are more likely to see some of these young receivers end up on IR, with a mysterious Kurt Campbell type of injury. TT has plenty of cap space and can keep as many guys on the roster as he wants on the lower end with IR. Then they're working out, learning the system and I think they get to practice once healthy on the scout team.

princefielder28
05-05-2007, 10:21 AM
This would have been a bad trade for the Packers. Future draft picks are typically valued down one round so basically we would have been giving up our 1st rounder for the value of a 2nd rounder. There is no way of knowing where next year's 1st from the Browns would be and what type of value would have been available there in terms of players.

Now, had the Browns offered next year's 1st rounder and this year's 2nd and 3rd or 2nd and 4th straight up I may have considered it a good trade.

I have to disagree with you b/c if you look at the trade and the value of each pick the value of that 1st rounder would be #21. Now after looking at the Browns team and their schedule I have a hard time believing that they'll be good enough to be competing for the playoffs. I think they could win as many as 7 games and win as few as 4. I have them as guaranteed wins against Detroit, Oakland, Houston, and Buffalo and I'm not even 100% sure about those. Then toss up wins at home aginst Pittsburgh, on the road at Arizona, and at home against San Francisco. Looking at that I find it hard to believe that the Browns would be picking outside the Top 10 next year and they could possibly be one of the 5 worst teams. Unfortunately we will not have the luxury of potentially having that pick b/c we rejected an offer and the Cowboys capitalized on it.

narf029
05-05-2007, 12:27 PM
Right, plus the swapping of picks would have been pretty valuable as well. With the Browns 2nd rounder we could have taken Jarrett or Rice like TT apparently wanted to, or we could have traded down for more value than what we got. Same concept with their 3rd and 4th rounders. Plus, I personally think it's safe to say that the Browns would have had a pick higher than 16 next season (point to the Saints all you want, but they're a completely different situation than the Browns are). Plus, the Browns pick has a lot more upside than ours did. We took Justin Harrell this year, the Browns are a perennial top 5 pick. I don't know about anyone else here, but I would gladly trade Justin Harrell for the rights to Glenn Dorsey.

Jim Jim
05-05-2007, 12:34 PM
You can't predict an NFL season. Games are won and lost by one or two plays.

I would have loved to have two first rounders next year, but I like Justin Harrell and think him with Pickett will improve our entire defense.

Football Fan
05-05-2007, 02:20 PM
I have to disagree with you b/c if you look at the trade and the value of each pick the value of that 1st rounder would be #21. Now after looking at the Browns team and their schedule I have a hard time believing that they'll be good enough to be competing for the playoffs. I think they could win as many as 7 games and win as few as 4. I have them as guaranteed wins against Detroit, Oakland, Houston, and Buffalo and I'm not even 100% sure about those. Then toss up wins at home aginst Pittsburgh, on the road at Arizona, and at home against San Francisco. Looking at that I find it hard to believe that the Browns would be picking outside the Top 10 next year and they could possibly be one of the 5 worst teams. Unfortunately we will not have the luxury of potentially having that pick b/c we rejected an offer and the Cowboys capitalized on it.I have to agree with you, I highly doubt the browns draft higher than 16 and even if its around 20 or so the pack will have made up a lot of points with the upgrade in this years 2nd 3rd and 4th. I dont know if next years draft is supposed to be more talented than this years but if it is thats worth a lot there to.

Football Fan
05-05-2007, 02:26 PM
Now if Harell turns out to be great I can see where thompson is comming from, but I dont harell was picked out of default do to the way the draft went. Not because he was targetted off the get go do to him being this awsome sleeeper.

princefielder28
05-05-2007, 02:29 PM
Now if Harell turns out to be great I can see where thompson is comming from, but I dont harell was picked out of default do to the way the draft went. Not because he was targetted off the get go do to him being this awsome sleeeper.

Harrell was selected, IMO, becuase Thompson did not take the injuries as a big thing to watch out for and he just looked as his abilities and what he had done in games he was actually healthy in. If thats the case it a fairly decent pick but no one knows if he'll stay healthy for an extended period time and whether he was really the BPA regardless of those injuries.

Football Fan
05-05-2007, 02:30 PM
Now if Harell turns out to be great I can see where thompson is comming from, but I dont harell was picked out of default do to the way the draft went. Not because he was targetted off the get go do to him being this awsome sleeeper.
Typo, "but I dont harell was picked out of default do to the way the draft went."
Meant to say, but I think harell was picked out of default do to the way the draft went.

Pack_Attack_4
05-05-2007, 07:28 PM
Jaguars cornerback Ahmad Carroll was busted on Saturday morning in Atlanta.

Carroll is charged with carrying a concealed weapon, carrying a pistol without a permit, and possession of Ecstasy.

what a waste of a 1st rounder.

iloxygenil
05-05-2007, 07:30 PM
Poor Ahmad...well not really...but poor Packers if only he was half the football player he was an athlete he'd have been real solid for you guys.

Favre4
05-05-2007, 10:49 PM
i dont think there is anyway in you know what that clowney gets cut.

jackalope
05-05-2007, 11:09 PM
I would have loved it if we'd accepted that trade.

johbur
05-06-2007, 04:24 AM
—DT Colin Cole: ERFA; $435,000/1 yr.
—LS Rob Davis: Potential UFA; $820,000/1 yr.
—RB Noah Herron: ERFA; $435,000/1 yr.
—WR Carlyle Holiday: ERFA; $435,000/1 yr.
—TE Tory Humphrey: ERFA; $360,000/1 yr.
—DE Cullen Jenkins: Potential RFA; $16M/4 yrs, $6M SB.
—TE Donald Lee: Potential UFA; $595,000/1 yr.
—T/G Tyson Walter: UFA; $701,240/1 yr, $40,000 SB.
—LB Tracy White: UFA; $641,240/1 yr, $25,000 SB.

I am thinking that if TT gave a player a signing bonus, he's a little more inclined to keep them on the roster. I'd like White to stick with the team, but he'll need to hold off Desmond and Rory. I like having Tyson Walter on the team, and with Moll and Barbre backing up, they only need to keep 8 linemen active on game day.

Glad Ahmad got arrested as a Jag instead of as a Packer. Maybe that's why his dumb ass couldn't get the NFL, he's too wired with X.

Good articles on JS Online about the draft picks. Rouse and Jones, in particular.

Dave Tollefson looked great in his NFLE game. He had a couple of sacks and put a lot of pressure on the QB. His team won the game, but the other team had a kicker from the Cowboys that missed a game-tying field goal.

Jim Jim
05-06-2007, 11:58 AM
Dude, Carlton Brewster is tearing NFL Europe. I wouldn't be surprised if he beat out Ruvell Martin/Holiday/Ferguson.

Jmohr107
05-06-2007, 02:20 PM
Brewster is doing pretty well but I doubt he'll make the roster. I remember last year when Chad Lucas tore up NFL Europe, then he got cut.

princefielder28
05-06-2007, 02:27 PM
Dude, Carlton Brewster is tearing NFL Europe. I wouldn't be surprised if he beat out Ruvell Martin/Holiday/Ferguson.

It is still NFL Europe; players can be great but they still have to prove themselves on this side of the pond.

princefielder28
05-06-2007, 04:17 PM
http://packers.com/news/stories/2007/05/06/1/

Just some initial reaction from HC Mike McCarthy following work with the newcomers

johbur
05-06-2007, 09:02 PM
Dude, Carlton Brewster is tearing NFL Europe. I wouldn't be surprised if he beat out Ruvell Martin/Holiday/Ferguson.

All I saw was the last of the the fourth quarter on the NFL channel. It was around 2 am or so, I believe. And Dave Tollefson was punking the LT he was going against play after play. If the QB, I think it was Meyer, wasn't so mobile, Dave would have have four sacks in the fourth quarter. He applied some very good pressure and had some solid pass rushing moves, in particular his feint on the edge and then ripping under was responsible for a sack and a big hit on the QB.

I like Carlton Brewster, but TT just seems determined to get Sherman's picks off his team, and to replace the UDFAs with his draftees.

jackalope
05-07-2007, 07:10 AM
I like Carlton Brewster, but TT just seems determined to get Sherman's picks off his team, and to replace the UDFAs with his draftees.Brewster was acquired in a trade last preseason, so he wasn't a Sherman pick.

M1Koter
05-07-2007, 11:22 AM
Brewster was acquired in a trade last preseason, so he wasn't a Sherman pick.

plus it's not like sherman made many even decent picks

princefielder28
05-07-2007, 02:43 PM
plus it's not like sherman made many even decent picks

Sherman's hitting percentage on draft picks is like Ben Sheets at the plate

M1Koter
05-07-2007, 03:05 PM
Sherman's hitting percentage on draft picks is like Ben Sheets at the plate

that is gunna be a great sig quote

princefielder28
05-07-2007, 06:39 PM
that is gunna be a great sig quote

Thanks for using it!

M1Koter
05-07-2007, 07:29 PM
TT's 2005 draft has contains more packers still on the roster than all of sherman's drafts combined right now.

princefielder28
05-07-2007, 09:30 PM
TT's 2005 draft has contains more packers still on the roster than all of sherman's drafts combined right now.

And that's why the Packers are headed in the right direction compared to the last year or two with Sherman

TitleTown088
05-08-2007, 01:47 PM
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=602062

goos Wynn article.

PackAttack
05-08-2007, 03:39 PM
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=602062

goos Wynn article.

I really admire this kid's honesty but words are just that....only words.

Fact is he has some real talent and, had he worked hard through his college career, probably would have been at least a 2nd rounder. If our staff can get him motivated and putting in the effort in the weightroom, film room and practices I wouldn't put it past him to be a big time backup RB or possibly even a starter in the future....

who knows, maybe he becomes our MIchael Turner and we trade him in a couple years for 1st rounder :)

cuzifelt1ikeit
05-08-2007, 06:27 PM
I really admire this kid's honesty but words are just that....only words.

Fact is he has some real talent and, had he worked hard through his college career, probably would have been at least a 2nd rounder. If our staff can get him motivated and putting in the effort in the weightroom, film room and practices I wouldn't put it past him to be a big time backup RB or possibly even a starter in the future....

who knows, maybe he becomes our MIchael Turner and we trade him in a couple years for 1st rounder :)
i would hope he turns out like marques colston.

princefielder28
05-08-2007, 06:48 PM
It was interesting on ESPN today when they were talking about the Philadelphia Eagles QB position. McNabb, they said, is probably safe for this upcoming season and in 2008, but in 2009 it's an option year for McNabb and the Eagles may be looking to go in the direction of 2nd round pick Kevin Kolb. This got me to thinking, could Donavan McNabb possibly be a Packer one day??? Favre has no more than two years left and if he does retire after this season and Rodgers steps in and does a subpar job, the Packers will likely look to address the most important position on the field. I'm just throwing this idea out there and I would certainly not be against this one day happening. What do you guys think???

NickCollins36
05-08-2007, 06:58 PM
I really admire this kid's honesty but words are just that....only words.

Fact is he has some real talent and, had he worked hard through his college career, probably would have been at least a 2nd rounder. If our staff can get him motivated and putting in the effort in the weightroom, film room and practices I wouldn't put it past him to be a big time backup RB or possibly even a starter in the future....

who knows, maybe he becomes our MIchael Turner and we trade him in a couple years for 1st rounder :)


maybe he becomes are starting back!

JF4
05-08-2007, 07:33 PM
It was interesting on ESPN today when they were talking about the Philadelphia Eagles QB position. McNabb, they said, is probably safe for this upcoming season and in 2008, but in 2009 it's an option year for McNabb and the Eagles may be looking to go in the direction of 2nd round pick Kevin Kolb. This got me to thinking, could Donavan McNabb possibly be a Packer one day??? Favre has no more than two years left and if he does retire after this season and Rodgers steps in and does a subpar job, the Packers will likely look to address the most important position on the field. I'm just throwing this idea out there and I would certainly not be against this one day happening. What do you guys think???

If Rodgers doesn't pan out i'd be all for having McNabb as our QB. When healthy he's the 3rd best QB in the league behind Brady and Manning but like I said that's when he's healthy. He's been having injury troubles the past couple years that i'm sure would scare away some teams.

johbur
05-08-2007, 07:33 PM
This got me to thinking, could Donavan McNabb possibly be a Packer one day??? I'm just throwing this idea out there and I would certainly not be against this one day happening. What do you guys think???

McNabb in two years would still have a lot of good things about him. He's running a WCO now, and it could be a good fit. He'd still have plenty of arm and likely be pretty mobile.

That being said, if Aaron Rodgers shows what made him a first rounder, McNabb won't be necessary. Rodgers was a great college QB, and I think he has the perfect type of game for what HC MM wants to do, even beyond Favre for the system as he is a higher percentage, lower turnover type of player. What he doesn't, and what very few players do have, is Favre's ability to turn nothing into something and his ability to conceivably hit a TD on any pass play.

GB12
05-08-2007, 07:39 PM
It was interesting on ESPN today when they were talking about the Philadelphia Eagles QB position. McNabb, they said, is probably safe for this upcoming season and in 2008, but in 2009 it's an option year for McNabb and the Eagles may be looking to go in the direction of 2nd round pick Kevin Kolb. This got me to thinking, could Donavan McNabb possibly be a Packer one day??? Favre has no more than two years left and if he does retire after this season and Rodgers steps in and does a subpar job, the Packers will likely look to address the most important position on the field. I'm just throwing this idea out there and I would certainly not be against this one day happening. What do you guys think???

Nope, I don't think there is any chance. First and foremost it's Aaron's job. With being in the league already for 3 years (assuming Favre is gone after this one) he should be ready right away. However if he's not he still gets 2 seasons as a starter to prove himself. Should for whatever reason Rodgers fails it's back to the draft.

jackalope
05-08-2007, 09:03 PM
Why would we need McNabb? If Rodgers happens to be a disappointment, we've alway got Ingle to fall back on.

princefielder28
05-08-2007, 09:45 PM
Why would we need McNabb? If Rodgers happens to be a disappointment, we've alway got Ingle to fall back on.

I just threw that idea out there and IMO Ingle Martin will never start a game in Green Bay b/c he's the best QB on the roster. If that's the case that Martin is in fact the best QB on the roster then adding someone like McNabb would be leaps and bounds better than Martin.

JF4
05-08-2007, 09:46 PM
I just threw that idea out there and IMO Ingle Martin will never start a game in Green Bay b/c he's the best QB on the roster. If that's the case that Martin is in fact the best QB on the roster then adding someone like McNabb would be leaps and bounds better than Martin.

Does this not make sense to anyone else?

princefielder28
05-08-2007, 09:51 PM
Does this not make sense to anyone else?

Martin will never start a game in Green Bay b/c he's the best option we have; it would be due to an injury or something similar to that

JF4
05-08-2007, 09:55 PM
Martin will never start a game in Green Bay b/c he's the best option we have; it would be due to an injury or something similar to that

I'm sure what your trying to say is probably right but you say that he's the best option that we have, what do you mean by option? because the best options we have are Favre and Rodgers.

princefielder28
05-08-2007, 09:58 PM
I'm sure what your trying to say is probably right but you say that he's the best option that we have, what do you mean by option? because the best options we have are Favre and Rodgers.

It was originally based off of jackalope's statement of "If Rodgers happens to be a disappointment we always have Martin to all back on."

Moses
05-08-2007, 10:24 PM
It was originally based off of jackalope's statement of "If Rodgers happens to be a disappointment we always have Martin to all back on."

Who knows...Martin may develop into a decent quarterback at some point. Still, I agree with you that he'll likely never start a game for Green Bay. Even if Rodgers is a bust and Favre retires, Martin will likely already be gone or he won't be good enough to slot into the starting position.

TitleTown088
05-08-2007, 10:30 PM
His name is Ingle, He'll be good.

PACKmanN
05-08-2007, 11:45 PM
Rodgers all the way, he will a good productive qb.

princefielder28
05-09-2007, 06:49 AM
Rodgers all the way, he will a good productive qb.

I hope Aaron has success as well, but I'm just going through possible scenarios

M1Koter
05-09-2007, 03:32 PM
So what do we consider as a need position wise in next years draft? I think most of it depends on how guys devolp. S could be one but if Underwood can step up thats covered. CB of the future, but if Blackmon can step up I don't think that would be an issue. OT of the future maybe, TE definatly, A million different thing could happen with the WR situation. So really only one definate and a couple maybes. Sounds like a pretty solid team for years to come.

JF4
05-09-2007, 04:17 PM
Yea i'd probably put them in this order:

TE
S
CB
OT
WR

umphrey
05-09-2007, 05:54 PM
In 3 years we are gonna be in rough shape at a lot of key positions.

Clifton, Tauscher, Favre, Woodson, Harris, Driver, Bubba are our best players and they all will be retiring at around the same time.

princefielder28
05-09-2007, 06:17 PM
In 3 years we are gonna be in rough shape at a lot of key positions.

Clifton, Tauscher, Favre, Woodson, Harris, Driver, Bubba are our best players and they all will be retiring at around the same time.

QB- Aaron Rodgers
LT- Allen Barbre
CBs- draft
TE- draft

GB12
05-09-2007, 06:37 PM
QB- Aaron Rodgers
LT- Allen Barbre
CBs- draft
TE- draft

I'd be willing to bet that Colledge will be the LT. Barbre can hopefully start at RT.

Moses
05-09-2007, 06:37 PM
In 3 years we are gonna be in rough shape at a lot of key positions.

Clifton, Tauscher, Favre, Woodson, Harris, Driver, Bubba are our best players and they all will be retiring at around the same time.

Hopefully by then the nucleus of the team will be in their prime and the Packers will already be a Super Bowl contender. There are also possible replacements for a lot of those positions already on the roster.

Clifton, Tauscher --> Barbre, Colledge, Moll
Favre --> Rodgers

jackalope
05-09-2007, 06:45 PM
Right now, TE is really our only major need. Corner depth is also something that should be addressed.

M1Koter
05-09-2007, 06:47 PM
In 3 years we are gonna be in rough shape at a lot of key positions.

Clifton, Tauscher, Favre, Woodson, Harris, Driver, Bubba are our best players and they all will be retiring at around the same time.

Clifton and Tausher got another 3 years in them and it looks like we have some guys devolping for the tackle positions. We got rodgers. Between Blackmon and some future draft picks I think we'll have CB covered. Jennings I think will be the same caliber play that Driver is in a few years, and Bubba needs to be replaced now, but there wern't the right opertunites, so that'll have to wait, but in 3 years a lot can change and alot will.

neko4
05-09-2007, 07:00 PM
3 years from now...
QB: Rodgers/Favre!!!!!!!!!!
HB: Jackson/Morency/Draft
FB: Wynn/Miree
WR1: Jennings
WR2: Driver(Probably his last year as the starter)
WR3: Jones/Martin/Clowney(Time will tell I guess)
WR4: Jones/Martin/Clowney
TE: Harris/Draft
LT: Colledge
LG: Spitz
C: Wells
RG: Barbe
RT: Moll

DE: Kampman(Will start to show signs of age)
DT: Harrell
DT: Williams
DE: Jenkins
LB: Hawk
LB: Barnett
LB: Draft/Poppinga
CB1: ????
CB2: Harris
CB3: ????
CB4: ????
FS: Collins
SS: Rouse

Really the only problem spots I see for the future are RB,TE, and CB but the first two can or will be solved fairly easily

Sportsfan486
05-09-2007, 08:20 PM
In 3 years we are gonna be in rough shape at a lot of key positions.


That's what the draft is for.. you can say the same thing about pretty much every top team out there, save maybe the Chargers who are freakishly young at key positions.

PACKmanN
05-09-2007, 08:34 PM
3 years from now...
QB: Rodgers/Favre!!!!!!!!!!
HB: Jackson/Morency/Draft
FB: Wynn/Miree
WR1: Jennings
WR2: Driver(Probably his last year as the starter)
WR3: Jones/Martin/Clowney(Time will tell I guess)
WR4: Jones/Martin/Clowney
TE: Harris/Draft
LT: Colledge
LG: Spitz
C: Wells
RG: Barbe
RT: Moll

DE: Kampman(Will start to show signs of age)
DT: Harrell
DT: Williams
DE: Jenkins
LB: Hawk
LB: Barnett
LB: Draft/Poppinga
CB1: ????
CB2: Harris
CB3: ????
CB4: ????
FS: Collins
SS: Rouse

Really the only problem spots I see for the future are RB,TE, and CB but the first two can or will be solved fairly easily

QB: Aaron Rodgers
HB: Brandon Jackson/Vernand Morency/DeShawn Wynn
FB: Brandon Miree/Ryan Powdrell
WR1: Greg Jennings
WR2: Donald Driver
WR3: James Jones
WR4: David Clowney
WR5: Ruvell Martin
TE: Clark Harris/Draft
LT: Daryn Colledge
LG: Jason Spitz
C: Scott Wells
RG: Allen Barbe
RT: Tony Moll

DE: Aaron Kampman
DT: Justin Harrell
DT: Ryan Pickett
DE: Cullen Jenkins
LB: AJ Hawk
LB: Nick Barnett
LB: Rory Johnson
CB1: Charles Woodson
CB2: Al Harris
CB3: Will Blackmon
CB4: Patrick Dendy
CB5: Jarrett Bush
FS: Nick Collins
SS: Aaron Rouse

next year picks will follow in CB, TE, DE, BPA and so on..., I am excited so see that oline in there prime.

round 1- Paul Oliver, CB, Georgia
round 2- Kenny Iwebema, DE, Iowa
round 3- Fred Davis, TE, USC

Ravens1991
05-09-2007, 08:47 PM
how did Colledge do for you all last year?

PACKmanN
05-09-2007, 08:49 PM
how did Colledge do for you all last year?

he wasnt a terrible LG but as a LT, he sucked. He needs to get stronger, thats what hurt him the most. (weight room)

princefielder28
05-09-2007, 08:49 PM
how did Colledge do for you all last year?

Colledge played well and progressed throughout the season at LG. Along with Wells and Spitz the Packers have a solid, young interior offensive line that will only get better.

princefielder28
05-09-2007, 08:50 PM
he wasnt a terrible LG but as a LT, he sucked. He needs to get stronger, thats what hurt him the most. (weight room)

When he played left tackle he was going up against Jason Taylor in the game that he struggled the most. Last time I checked not many people had success stopping Taylor last year.

Ravens1991
05-09-2007, 08:55 PM
thank you all.

M1Koter
05-09-2007, 09:29 PM
When he played left tackle he was going up against Jason Taylor in the game that he struggled the most. Last time I checked not many people had success stopping Taylor last year.

The stat that impressed me was that Taylor was the only person to register a sack against Colledge

JF4
05-09-2007, 09:40 PM
The stat that impressed me was that Taylor was the only person to register a sack against Colledge

For the most part pass blocking wasn't the problem for our O-Line. Everyone did just fine is passing situations. It was the run blocking that we had problems with, especially near the start of the year. It did steadily improve through the year but it seemed that everyone struggled to get a good push on the line and we weren't able to open enough holes. Ofcourse we switched to the ZBS which was one of the reasons why the run blocking wasn't as good but I think that everyone on the line needs to step up there run blocking if we want to have a good offense. We don't have RB's who will be able to do it by themselves and if we ain't opening holes I can't see our offense being much better than last year.

M1Koter
05-09-2007, 10:02 PM
For the most part pass blocking wasn't the problem for our O-Line. Everyone did just fine is passing situations. It was the run blocking that we had problems with, especially near the start of the year. It did steadily improve through the year but it seemed that everyone struggled to get a good push on the line and we weren't able to open enough holes. Ofcourse we switched to the ZBS which was one of the reasons why the run blocking wasn't as good but I think that everyone on the line needs to step up there run blocking if we want to have a good offense. We don't have RB's who will be able to do it by themselves and if we ain't opening holes I can't see our offense being much better than last year.

I completly agree, this team is really hinging on the devolpment of the young guys

Football Fan
05-10-2007, 01:29 AM
Seems like a lot of assumtions are being made about draft picks automatically becomming solid or very good players. in a few years we could very well be watching many draft picks flop. For the record I very much hope thats not the case.

Football Fan
05-10-2007, 01:38 AM
My point about the draft picks having unknown value is that free agency has its roll.
Sorry, but I like to be one of the people in the packer thread to provide the view point from the other side of the coin.

Football Fan
05-10-2007, 01:57 AM
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=603858

johbur
05-10-2007, 02:17 AM
My point about the draft picks having unknown value is that free agency has its roll.
Sorry, but I like to be one of the people in the packer thread to provide the view point from the other side of the coin.

FA does have a roll in building a team, as TT actually showed last year. He used the cap space to his advantage and picked up Woodson and Pickett. Ben Taylor and Tracy White were OK on special teams. Tyler reliable on the OL. Manuel, not so much. If he'd addressed some needs with some guys that commanded 10+ million dollars at OG in 2005, maybe the Packers wouldn't have had such a crummy year. It did allow him to parlay draft picks into good success for 2006, but no season is worth going through losing just for higher draft standing.

Football Fan
05-10-2007, 03:33 AM
http://www.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070507/PKR07/705070421/1989

M1Koter
05-10-2007, 06:39 AM
http://www.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070507/PKR07/705070421/1989

yet again, there was npbody in the offseason worth pickin up, they tried to get moss but he did want to restructure his contract, Ahman was the best FA RB and got signed for way more than he was worth. There were no play maker TE avaible, there were no play maker FA WR avalible.

princefielder28
05-10-2007, 06:41 AM
http://www.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070507/PKR07/705070421/1989

That was the 2nd time that he really grilled TT

umphrey
05-10-2007, 08:52 AM
I put no stock in articles like that, and lose a lot of respect for the author. To use an effective arguement, he would have to
- Give examples of who he wanted signed, rather than just saying "sign someone, because we can!"
- Make a case for why that player would help the team, why there is room on the team, and why he is worth his price tag
(this sounds like asking a lot, but can easily done in 1 sentence: "Player would have been a great fit for the Packers, as we currently have an open roster spot at his position and no real starter, and although he comes with a hefty price tag, he is a young and talented player".

Football Fan
05-10-2007, 01:29 PM
Does coach Mike McCarthy have enough talent to make the offense flourish? Or will the Packers be forced to scratch and claw for every touchdown?
********************************

"I am never one to complain about who's not here," McCarthy said Sunday following the team's rookie orientation camp. "My focus has always been on who's here."

This answer by McCarthy seems to be answered in a way that he knows who his boss is and his meal ticket.

Moses
05-10-2007, 03:23 PM
Does coach Mike McCarthy have enough talent to make the offense flourish? Or will the Packers be forced to scratch and claw for every touchdown?
********************************

"I am never one to complain about who's not here," McCarthy said Sunday following the team's rookie orientation camp. "My focus has always been on who's here."

This answer by McCarthy seems to be answered in a way that he knows who his boss is and his meal ticket.

Beyond Donald Driver, there is no proven offensive threat on the entire team. That is a scary thought, especially considering what happens to Favre when he has to do it himself.

princefielder28
05-10-2007, 03:55 PM
Beyond Donald Driver, there is no proven offensive threat on the entire team. That is a scary thought, especially considering what happens to Favre when he has to do it himself.

We could be this year's version of the Chicago Bears; rely on stout defense and get em by offense

princefielder28
05-10-2007, 09:42 PM
According to PackerReport.com Keyshawn Johnson is not interested in coming to Green Bay and he will choose between going to Tennessee, Oakland, or retiring.

Moses
05-10-2007, 10:26 PM
According to PackerReport.com Keyshawn Johnson is not interested in coming to Green Bay and he will choose between going to Tennessee, Oakland, or retiring.

Interesting. I thought he wanted to go to a contender? Too bad Moss didn't stay in Oakland and they also acquired Johnson. That's the biggest headache of all-time.

PACKmanN
05-10-2007, 11:03 PM
According to PackerReport.com Keyshawn Johnson is not interested in coming to Green Bay and he will choose between going to Tennessee, Oakland, or retiring.

thank god, we dont need him to begin with.

M1Koter
05-11-2007, 10:40 AM
According to PackerReport.com Keyshawn Johnson is not interested in coming to Green Bay and he will choose between going to Tennessee, Oakland, or retiring.

thats what I figured

Football Fan
05-11-2007, 12:50 PM
We could be this year's version of the Chicago Bears; rely on stout defense and get em by offenseThat may be, however there are a lot of good defensive teams out there. Chicago lost the superbowl do to there weak offense, although they were looking pretty good through half time I believe.They are trying to get that fixed now before they miss there window of opportunity, but it might already be to late and probably wont be able to win it with grossman.
That said, Greenbays improving defense is clearly something to hang there hat on. The offense is in a world of hurt and wont get better with favre retiring. Moss with a serviceable rb and tight end might have actually been the help that would have been able to take this current team deep into the playoffs(and I have seen conflicting reports as to whether Moss would have been willing to restructure for greenbay,I believe it was his agent that said it was not true that he wouldnt work with the packers not to mention gb could have put much more cash on the table than the petty 3 mill. that he got).
Still thats water under the bridge now, but the packers offense is going to be hurting for a long time without a proven QB in GB's near future.

GB12
05-11-2007, 04:16 PM
According to PackerReport.com Keyshawn Johnson is not interested in coming to Green Bay and he will choose between going to Tennessee, Oakland, or retiring.

This coming from 25 minutes ago:


McCarthy considers Keyshawn

Green Bay Packers coach Mike McCarthy was interviewed Thursday on Sirius NFL Radio and was asked what the Packers' interest level was in wide receiver Keyshawn Johnson, who last week was released by the Carolina Panthers.

"Player acquisition is a 12-month process," McCarthy said. "We look at everybody that's available. We have talked about Keyshawn. Extremely productive player throughout his career. Big, physical receiver that, frankly, I'm a fan of and I think fits our system in a way we want to play. But, you know, as far as what's going on there, those are things that are better left unsaid as we move forward. But he's definitely someone that's been very productive."

Johnson, who stands 6-4, will turn 35 on July 22. He was the number one overall pick by the New York Jets in the 1996 draft. He has played for the Jets, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Dallas Cowboys and the Panthers.
http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=2&date=5/11/2007&id=23386

princefielder28
05-11-2007, 04:19 PM
Of course we considered Keyshawn but if he doesn't want to come here nothing else matters

neko4
05-11-2007, 05:52 PM
Of course we considered Keyshawn but if he doesn't want to come here nothing else matters

We have a TON of money.

princefielder28
05-11-2007, 07:54 PM
We have a TON of money.

We don't throw money around though

Football Fan
05-12-2007, 01:59 AM
http://www.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070511/PKR01/70511221/1989

Moses
05-12-2007, 10:28 AM
I don't know if this has been posted but there is a bunch of cool rookie lockerroom interviews on packers.com. Check them out, it's a good way to get a feel for the rookies as people.

Moses
05-12-2007, 11:31 AM
Here are some pictures of the Packers rookies during their first few days in Green Bay.

Aaron Rouse
http://i6.tinypic.com/4tzvbbo.jpg

Allen Barbre
http://i6.tinypic.com/4ma272v.jpg

Brandon Jackson
http://i4.tinypic.com/62htabp.jpg

Moses
05-12-2007, 11:32 AM
Some more...

David Clowney
http://i3.tinypic.com/54mhjjc.jpg

DeShawn Wynn
http://i10.tinypic.com/68a1pfs.jpg

James Jones
http://i2.tinypic.com/52gk603.jpg

Moses
05-12-2007, 11:33 AM
And finally...

Justin Harrell
http://i5.tinypic.com/63achav.jpg

Korey Hall
http://i7.tinypic.com/4vi0wpc.jpg

PACKmanN
05-12-2007, 11:50 AM
Brandon Jackson kinda looks like Mike Tyson lol

Jim Jim
05-12-2007, 12:02 PM
Brandon Jackson kinda looks like Mike Tyson lol

rofl.

I'LL EAT YO CHILDREN~!

princefielder28
05-12-2007, 03:18 PM
Brett Favre will not be attending the upcoming mini-camp becuase he has not regained full strength in his ankle yet. He plans on staying home and working with his personal trainer.

TitleTown088
05-12-2007, 05:03 PM
Brett Favre will not be attending the upcoming mini-camp becuase he has not regained full strength in his ankle yet. He plans on staying home and working with his personal trainer.
MM said he dosen't know if that is for sure.

neko4
05-12-2007, 05:08 PM
I used to be a republican but now i dont know
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-brownback-favre&prov=ap&type=lgns


Also from the season:
I've said all year that it's almost impossible to expect anything better than 7 wins for the Packers because of their interior line. It's the worst in football and isn't really all that well supported by a mediocre supporting cast.

TitleTown088
05-12-2007, 05:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
I've said all year that it's almost impossible to expect anything better than 7 wins for the Packers because of their interior line. It's the worst in football and isn't really all that well supported by a mediocre supporting cast.

well BF is a bit an idiot... He also said Greg Jennings would not be any good either.

Nitschke-Hawk
05-12-2007, 05:40 PM
And Aaron Kampman is average

PACKmanN
05-12-2007, 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
I've said all year that it's almost impossible to expect anything better than 7 wins for the Packers because of their interior line. It's the worst in football and isn't really all that well supported by a mediocre supporting cast.

well BF is a bit an idiot... He also said Greg Jennings would not be any good either.

what more can u except from a bears fan....

PACKmanN
05-12-2007, 09:01 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mLfrCBRrV8 best commerical ever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9Xu7zWEbrw&NR=1 this one is pretty funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMDUGEsXdK4&NR=1 why didnt they air these commericals?

neko4
05-12-2007, 09:08 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mLfrCBRrV8 best commerical ever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9Xu7zWEbrw&NR=1 this one is pretty funny.

Madden's the greatest

GB12
05-12-2007, 09:17 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSoFA57WgJM&mode=related&search I like how he gets respect from even our hated rivals.

neko4
05-12-2007, 09:28 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSoFA57WgJM&mode=related&search I like how he gets respect from even our hated rivals.

hey i was in the CHI city that weekend! anyway, pretty cool movie

GB12
05-12-2007, 10:40 PM
Wow, this pisses me off.
"We could have gotten him for less money than New England did. He wanted to play in Green Bay for the amount of money we could have paid him. It (was) well worth the risk."
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=604780

Now, I respect Thompson, but this one gets me. Not giving up a fourth for Moss eventhough he'd restructure his contract for us. I can not see what we got that was so much more valuable than Randy Moss.

TitleTown088
05-12-2007, 11:41 PM
Wow, this pisses me off.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=604780

Now, I respect Thompson, but this one gets me. Not giving up a fourth for Moss eventhough he'd restructure his contract for us. I can not see what we got that was so much more valuable than Randy Moss.

Great, god is pissed. Now what?

neko4
05-12-2007, 11:56 PM
Wow, this pisses me off.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=604780

Now, I respect Thompson, but this one gets me. Not giving up a fourth for Moss eventhough he'd restructure his contract for us. I can not see what we got that was so much more valuable than Randy Moss.

Plus OAK wouldve got a better 4th!

TitleTown088
05-13-2007, 12:15 AM
Didn't anyone else hear that NE had been talking to Moss for awhile now? perhaps Moss wanted to go there all along.

bearsfan_51
05-13-2007, 12:18 AM
Yeah..but you guys predicting that the Packers would be in the division race and that the Bears were going to be 4-12 just like in 2001 weren't full of your own ****.

Everyone says stuff that's wrong....mine is just more magnified because I post in a thread where I stick out like a soar thumb (ie: I'm not a Packers homer).

bearsfan_51
05-13-2007, 12:19 AM
Didn't anyone else hear that NE had been talking to Moss for awhile now? perhaps Moss wanted to go there all along.
Perhaps Ted Thompson should grow a nutsack and you're trying to rationalize a stupid mistake.

Boston
05-13-2007, 12:35 AM
Perhaps Ted Thompson should grow a nutsack and you're trying to rationalize a stupid mistake.

TT picked Harrell in the first round at 16. That's a pretty big nutsack he's sportin'.

TitleTown088
05-13-2007, 12:51 AM
Perhaps Ted Thompson should grow a nutsack and you're trying to rationalize a stupid mistake.

TT really didn't too much either apparently , and that's what it came down to. TT wasn't willing to give up enough in the Raiders eyes, and I'm glad he didn't.

Football Fan
05-13-2007, 01:57 AM
Perhaps Ted Thompson should grow a nutsack and you're trying to rationalize a stupid mistake.
I agree, this Thompson worship is a little tiresome. I mean its like how dare anyone think twice about something management does or doesnt do. Like were all supposed to just write wow great move at everything they do and discuss how were going to be in the superbowl soon, because there are no flaws at every personnel decision.
This team is not being run like they intend to win each year and it should be. The Moss thing is just another example of that which I have been pointing out for some time. Thomson does not believe in seizing even the low risk, low cost opportunities to win now and aquiring moss would have been low risk low cost very high upside opportunity. GROW A NUTSACK! If Moss flopped big deal, live with it. At least it would have been a very reasonable effort. In no way would that have been even close to mortgaging the teams future, hell there going to have even a boat load more money once our very dependable hard to find quarterback retires.
So what if some bitter packer fans didnt want him. Everyone thought Andre Rison was a jackass, Keith Jackson said there wasnt a snowballs chance in the streets of miami that he would play for GreenBay, but they both did, the packers won the superbowl, I believe Rison scored the first touchdown and the fans idolized Ron Wolf for making it all possible. Rightly so.
So Keyshawn Johnson might not want to play for Greenbay, im sure a good gm could make it happen, it probably wouldnt even be all that hard to do.
Maybe Wolf could just lend Thompson his nutsack for a few mil.
He certainly seems to be overly comfortable allowing the team to fail multiple years with the intent to win down the road. That is flawed, putting off winning today, because you might win 3 years from now is rediculous(within reason of coarse). Favre should be pissed and packer fans should be pissed.
Thompson has displayed great skills as a scout and talent evaluator,we know this (it might be the job he is meant to have), but ive seen plenty of evidence to question his general management skill. Im not calling for his head (its to early to make that kind of judgement),but forums are for dicussing the team. That includes questioning moves and celebrating them. Thompson has created reasons for both.
People cant just make comments like "were fans not professionals" thats just lame. There would be no point in anyone commenting on these web sites. By that rationale people couldnt even question moves made by Detroits gm Matt Millen and that would take tremendous patience by the most diehard detroit lion homer fan on the planet.

PACKmanN
05-13-2007, 02:23 AM
Wow, this pisses me off.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=604780

Now, I respect Thompson, but this one gets me. Not giving up a fourth for Moss eventhough he'd restructure his contract for us. I can not see what we got that was so much more valuable than Randy Moss.

your telling me that TT wouldnt give up a 4th? reports were said that Moss no longer would restructure his contract for us.

PACKmanN
05-13-2007, 02:27 AM
I agree, this Thompson worship is a little tiresome. I mean its like how dare anyone think twice about something management does or doesnt do. Like were all supposed to just write wow great move at everything they do and discuss how were going to be in the superbowl soon, because there are no flaws at every personnel decision.
This team is not being run like they intend to win each year and it should be. The Moss thing is just another example of that which I have been pointing out for some time. Thomson does not believe in seizing even the low risk, low cash opportunities to win now and aquiring moss was low risk low cost. In no way would that have been even close to mortgaging the teams future, hell there going to have even a boat load more money once our very dependable hard to find quarterback retires.
He certainly seems to be overly comfortable allowing the team to fail multiple years with the intent to win down the road. That is flawed, putting off winning today, because you might win 3 years from now is rediculous. Favre should be pissed and packer fans should be pissed.
Thompson has displayed great skills as a scout and talent evaluator, but ive seen plenty of evidence to question his general management skill. Im not calling for his head (its to early to make that kind of judgement),but forums are for dicussing the team. That includes questioning moves and celebrating them. Thompson has created reasons for both.
People cant just make comments like "were fans not professionals" thats just lame, there would be no point in anyone commenting on these web sites. By that rationale we couldnt even question Detroits gm Matt Millen.

How does TT not take risks? he went out and sign Woodson who was known as an ingury prone player and Robinson. He has his own value and knows whats better for the team. He has 2 years left on his contract so no way he doesnt want to win now. Here a fact in about the last 3 years each superbowl team GM has built his team from the draft, and some FA pick ups when they feel its right.

someone447
05-13-2007, 03:24 AM
How does TT not take risks? he went out and sign Woodson who was known as an ingury prone player and Robinson. He has his own value and knows whats better for the team. He has 2 years left on his contract so no way he doesnt want to win now. Here a fact in about the last 3 years each superbowl team GM has built his team from the draft, and some FA pick ups when they feel its right.

I don't understand the whole we are building for the future. We have a good nucleus, we can try to win now. We have an incredible amount of cap room, no moves we make will mortgage the future.

Football Fan
05-13-2007, 03:36 AM
I don't understand the whole we are building for the future. We have a good nucleus, we can try to win now. We have an incredible amount of cap room, no moves we make will mortgage the future.
Pretty much my point.

Football Fan
05-13-2007, 03:48 AM
How does TT not take risks? he went out and sign Woodson who was known as an ingury prone player and Robinson. He has his own value and knows whats better for the team. He has 2 years left on his contract so no way he doesnt want to win now. Here a fact in about the last 3 years each superbowl team GM has built his team from the draft, and some FA pick ups when they feel its right.
Thompson signed Woodson very late in free agency for basically exactly what he was asking for after most of packerland was grumbling. I personally think it effected the decision to sign him or he would have taken him months earlier (the money was the same and he could have been signed by another team),but we will never know. The fact is the move paid off as did some others. Those kind of moves are something the team needs a little more of. If "the time was right" then, The time was right, almost perfectly for Moss and it has nothing to do with pleasing favre although I see nothing wrong with that.
as far as you not being able to see that there is no real sign of trying to win now theres really not to much I can say (or want to, its time consuming and I dont want to put the effort into it. Your mind wont change anyway). I will say this though, Trying to win now without any movess to improve the offense is a poor effort. Getting points in the red zone is a obvious and glaring need. It was an obvious need before last season even started. Regardless, you have every right to post your opinion here and I respect it, but strongly dissagree.
Thompson has said he doesnt draft for need but then says he doesnt believe in filling needs in free agency. That just isnt a win now mentality. Waiting for mid to late round rookies or any rookies / undrafted free agents to become good enough to fill need positions takes time.(while other team areas are aging, cornerback,o-line tackles, qb even wr (driver). Thats another subject, but yet another reason to keep the win now mentallity and rebuild through the draft at the same time).
ok im tired of writing and starting to ramble to much so im done now.

THE PACKERS RULE

someone447
05-13-2007, 12:33 PM
Post

Thank you, it seems that I was the only Packer fan here(other than the ones who only come out on draft day and the week before) that felt that way. TT is a great talent evaluator, maybe the best in the business. He can make a few moves in free agency and still have the core of the team built through the draft. He just seems too risk-averse. Signing Woodson had almost no risk. We had 326534687654634646846848464864868468468469 in cap room, nothing could have happened that would have hurt us. I follow the theory of big risk, big reward, in every aspect of life. We will never be a championship team if we don't take risks. Look at New England, Corey Dillon is the best example. Just do something TT, anything, take a god damn risk.

Football Fan
05-13-2007, 02:31 PM
Thank you, it seems that I was the only Packer fan here(other than the ones who only come out on draft day and the week before) that felt that way. TT is a great talent evaluator, maybe the best in the business. He can make a few moves in free agency and still have the core of the team built through the draft. He just seems too risk-averse. Signing Woodson had almost no risk. We had 326534687654634646846848464864868468468469 in cap room, nothing could have happened that would have hurt us. I follow the theory of big risk, big reward, in every aspect of life. We will never be a championship team if we don't take risks. Look at New England, Corey Dillon is the best example. Just do something TT, anything, take a god damn risk.No, your not the only one here. Questioning Greenbays management just isnt politically correct and comes off as disloyal. Most of the people here that are willing to openly question some moves (or non-moves) get jumped on by the management can do no wrong crowd, so they just read the forums once in a while and dont bother to go through the hassle of making their point. But yeah some have just simply stopped comming to these sites all together. Still, I dont believe the people that find themselves sceptical about some decisions are in the overall minority. Ive seen to many polls that indicate that.

M1Koter
05-13-2007, 04:37 PM
OK, so you guys question not getting Moss (which ended very happily for me), but other than that, people seem not to realize that there was really nobody in the FA worth picking up, and at first, yes I did question the draft but haven't we originally the last two drafts also? yes, and these guys always seem to exede expectations and the drafts turn out very well. And after research I have really started to like this draft class and I think these guys will fit in very well. These are my reasons for not questioning packers manegment

GB12
05-13-2007, 04:40 PM
OK, so you guys question not getting Moss (which ended very happily for me), but other than that, people seem not to realize that there was really nobody in the FA worth picking up, and at first, yes I did question the draft but haven't we originally the last two drafts also? yes, and these guys always seem to exede expectations and the drafts turn out very well. And after research I have really started to like this draft class and I think these guys will fit in very well. These are my reasons for not questioning packers manegment

Yeah, besides not getting Moss I don't think they have done a bad job. If Favre does however force his way out of town then it'll really light a fire for me. Watching him all these years seeing him get this close to the records, and then to have him brake them in a different uniform will make me very upset.

neko4
05-13-2007, 04:44 PM
Yeah, besides not getting Moss I don't think they have done a bad job. If Favre does however force his way out of town then it'll really light a fire for me. Watching him all these years seeing him get this close to the records, and then to have him brake them in a different uniform will make me very upset.

Our even worse in the playoffs/SB in a different uniform

GB12
05-13-2007, 04:46 PM
Our even worse in the playoffs/SB in a different uniform

Nah, that really wouldn't bother me more. I really don't buy into this trade talk at all, but TT will have a hard time regaining respect in the fans and the organization.