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View Full Version : Jason Taylor/Zach Thomas


Quagmire
02-14-2008, 01:38 PM
Well, with todays report that the Dolphins plan to release Zach, I think the Jason Taylor trade watch can officially begin.

Zach was a terrific Dolphin and is a definite ring of honor guy. He represented the team very well over his career. ( I think some Fin fans may have overrated him a bit), but that is a topic for another day. I hope he latches on with a winner and gets to compete for a title (Even if it is in NE, although that would be painful)

This was the right move by Miami. They needed the youth and the cap space and he was not going to be here when they get competitive.

Now on to JT. I think that there is no way he wants to be here and watch this process. I think it is best for all involved if they try to come up with a place where he can compete for a title. Just make sure that appropriate compensation comes back this way. I just see no way that he returns anymore. They are finally tearing this thing down the way they need to. Just get the draft choices and/or players for him and help the process along..

toonsterwu
02-14-2008, 01:47 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if both guys ended up in New England. I know, a lot of folks said to me last time there's no way that the Fins would trade Taylor to the Pats. I'm not sure I buy that. I think, if Parcells gets enough value, he'll pull the trigger on a deal as long as he thinks it benefits the Fins. My guess is a late 2nd or early 3rd for Taylor.

Quagmire
02-14-2008, 03:25 PM
Toonster,

Its funny that you say that. I was just thinking the same thing about JT. Now to be honest, I would not trade him for a low 2 or early 3. I think they can at minimum get a high to mid #2.... My idea... Offer JT and the #32 pick to NE for the #7 pick. A dream, maybe. But they do like veterans up there and he would be a force in the Belichick D as a rush 3-4 LB. Just look at what he did when Saban was in Miami. Can't hurt to try........

Then you take that pick and give to CLE for D. Anderson and you have your QB... Then trade the #1 to Dallas for both the #1's, a #3 and Barber.......

Not including FA's, that would mean 2 #1's, 1 #2, 2#3's, 1 #4 plus a young QB and a very good RB to complement our already good one.....

(OK, now I am REALLY DREAMING)..............

thebow305
02-14-2008, 04:33 PM
Truly a sad day in Dolphins history... I must say, I saw this coming, but it still hurts...

I hope we keep Taylor... unless we get a deal that benefits us ALOT. It is painful to watch our great vets move on and unless it is neccessary, I hope we don't have to see this again soon.

thebow305
02-14-2008, 04:52 PM
Toonster,

Its funny that you say that. I was just thinking the same thing about JT. Now to be honest, I would not trade him for a low 2 or early 3. I think they can at minimum get a high to mid #2.... My idea... Offer JT and the #32 pick to NE for the #7 pick. A dream, maybe. But they do like veterans up there and he would be a force in the Belichick D as a rush 3-4 LB. Just look at what he did when Saban was in Miami. Can't hurt to try........

Then you take that pick and give to CLE for D. Anderson and you have your QB... Then trade the #1 to Dallas for both the #1's, a #3 and Barber.......

Not including FA's, that would mean 2 #1's, 1 #2, 2#3's, 1 #4 plus a young QB and a very good RB to complement our already good one.....

(OK, now I am REALLY DREAMING)..............

I'm not gonna lie.... that scenario is starting to intrigue me a little bit.

I'm not sure how possible that Derek Anderson trade will be, we may just use that third to draft someone like Flacco or Henne instead, but either way, I wouldn't mind it if we HAD to trade Taylor.

I just hope if we trade him that we draft another 3-4 OLb pass rusher.

If we were to get Derek Anderson and either Marion Barber or Bobby Carpenter, and the Cowboy's 2 1st rounders I think it would definitely upgrade the talent of our team in a BIG way.

Barber would team with Ronnie to give us the best 1-2 punch in the league, just a bruising combo!

With the release of ZT, I see the aquisition of Bobby Carpenter from Dallas as a much more realistic possibilty, as a part of the package. He's a nice young player who could step into Zach's spot immediately and contribute with his speed.

Then with the 2 1sts, I would be praying that a combo like Calais Campbell/Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie would fall into our lap. That would be a dream scenario for me. Calais would add the outside pass rusher lost with JT, and DRC would give us the shutdown corner we have been lacking since Madison and Surtain left.

I must say.... it gets me excited thinking about it, I just hope some of this comes to life!

toonsterwu
02-14-2008, 04:54 PM
Toonster,

Its funny that you say that. I was just thinking the same thing about JT. Now to be honest, I would not trade him for a low 2 or early 3. I think they can at minimum get a high to mid #2.... My idea... Offer JT and the #32 pick to NE for the #7 pick. A dream, maybe. But they do like veterans up there and he would be a force in the Belichick D as a rush 3-4 LB. Just look at what he did when Saban was in Miami. Can't hurt to try........

Then you take that pick and give to CLE for D. Anderson and you have your QB... Then trade the #1 to Dallas for both the #1's, a #3 and Barber.......

Not including FA's, that would mean 2 #1's, 1 #2, 2#3's, 1 #4 plus a young QB and a very good RB to complement our already good one.....

(OK, now I am REALLY DREAMING)..............

Considering the age of Taylor and contract, I have a hard time seeing a high to mid 2. But hey, who knows. More power to Parcells/Ireland if he can net it. And yes, I think 32 and Taylor for 7 is probably dreaming. You'd essentially be saying that Taylor's worth a mid-first, which I don't see at all.

thebow305
02-14-2008, 05:01 PM
Oh and screw giving the 7th overall pick to Cleveland for Derek Anderson! I would give one of the 'Boys 1st picks to Cleveland for him, but not 7th overall. I'm taking Vernon Gholston there, or if we took Chris Long at 1, I'm gettin me some Mike Jenkins at number 7!

Damn, if we had the 1st and 7th picks, I would probably blow a load! Too bad it probably won't happen....nice to think about though!

Grizzlegom
02-14-2008, 08:28 PM
i wouldnt trade taylor for anything less then a first round pick. if we get rid of taylor and thomas, good luck selling tickets for any games. you cant get rid of the two biggest fan favorites and two best players on your team and expect fans to show up to games. who would anyone be going to see? ricky's return (again)? ronnie brown? ginn? i dont think the fans like any of those players enough to pay to see them. i understand the need to rebuild but JT fits parcells' scheme and is now the only player left that generates any type of enthusiasm among the casual fan. you cant trade him, especially not to NE.

thebow305
02-15-2008, 01:18 AM
i wouldnt trade taylor for anything less then a first round pick. if we get rid of taylor and thomas, good luck selling tickets for any games. you cant get rid of the two biggest fan favorites and two best players on your team and expect fans to show up to games. who would anyone be going to see? ricky's return (again)? ronnie brown? ginn? i dont think the fans like any of those players enough to pay to see them. i understand the need to rebuild but JT fits parcells' scheme and is now the only player left that generates any type of enthusiasm among the casual fan. you cant trade him, especially not to NE.

It's not about the individual players, or ANY individual players... it's about the team. The fans go to see the team, they don't go to see Jason Taylor or Ronnie Brown...they come to see the Miami Dolphins. If you can't understand that, then you're not a true fan. That aspect has nothing to do with the trade.

Quagmire
02-15-2008, 08:28 AM
Considering the age of Taylor and contract, I have a hard time seeing a high to mid 2. But hey, who knows. More power to Parcells/Ireland if he can net it. And yes, I think 32 and Taylor for 7 is probably dreaming. You'd essentially be saying that Taylor's worth a mid-first, which I don't see at all.

Toonster,

I agree that it is a bit of dreaming on the trade scenario, but the fact the guys in charge of both teams know each other, I think it is a remote possibility. You are probably right about his value as a 34 yr old player, but I think he can be the type of guy to put a team that is close (Jacksonville, Washington) over the top. Maybe you can pry a higher pick. I think that no matter what, he should be gone by draft day and if it means a low 2 or high 3 is all you can get, then you take it. The more picks the better at this point..

Quagmire
02-15-2008, 08:34 AM
i wouldnt trade taylor for anything less then a first round pick. if we get rid of taylor and thomas, good luck selling tickets for any games. you cant get rid of the two biggest fan favorites and two best players on your team and expect fans to show up to games. who would anyone be going to see? ricky's return (again)? ronnie brown? ginn? i dont think the fans like any of those players enough to pay to see them. i understand the need to rebuild but JT fits parcells' scheme and is now the only player left that generates any type of enthusiasm among the casual fan. you cant trade him, especially not to NE.

While you have a point that attendance may be a problem during the rebuilding process, I think you have to look at the big picture. This coming yr is going to be bad, yr 2 should be better and hopefully by yr 3, you are looking at a contending team. We need all the young players we can get. JT has been a great Dolphin. Trade him somewhere he has a chance and helps Miami with a player for the future..... I have no problem with him in NE or anywhere else as long as it can generate value for the Dolphins in the form of draft choices and/or players. He is a wasted asset on this team during the process....

Quagmire
02-15-2008, 08:39 AM
Oh and screw giving the 7th overall pick to Cleveland for Derek Anderson! I would give one of the 'Boys 1st picks to Cleveland for him, but not 7th overall. I'm taking Vernon Gholston there, or if we took Chris Long at 1, I'm gettin me some Mike Jenkins at number 7!

Damn, if we had the 1st and 7th picks, I would probably blow a load! Too bad it probably won't happen....nice to think about though!

You need a QB and there is no way Gholston makes it to 7. Jenkins is a reach at 7 as well. I think it could more than the #7 to get Anderson out of CLE. Without the QB, this whole rebuilding process can't work. If they don't think Beck is the guy, you have to find one. Ryan, Flacco & Henne all have potential, but are all question marks. Anderson played very well last yr and is still young. Might have to bite the bullet and potentially overpay to get him, but if it works, the position is fixed and you can focus on the rest of the roster. (BTW, I think CLE keeps Anderson. This is just me hoping for a way for the Dolphins to solve a ton of problems with 2 to 3 trades.)

thebow305
02-15-2008, 11:17 AM
I doubt 7 wouldn't be enough for Cleveland, they can ave a chance at one of the elite players in the draft. And they haven't exactly been all that successful in their attempts to resign him to a short term deal, as I've heard they are still miles apart. And Gholston could make it to seven, as well as Jenkins I've seen a lot of mocks that have the Pats getting one or the other lately.

Quagmire
02-15-2008, 11:32 AM
I doubt 7 wouldn't be enough for Cleveland, they can ave a chance at one of the elite players in the draft. And they haven't exactly been all that successful in their attempts to resign him to a short term deal, as I've heard they are still miles apart. And Gholston could make it to seven, as well as Jenkins I've seen a lot of mocks that have the Pats getting one or the other lately.

Bow,

I agree that #7 is a good price, but remember that the Browns are going to be really scared to trade Anderson unless they are overwhelmed. If Quinn disappoints and Anderson turns into a solid QB for the next few yrs, the Browns would never live it down. They need to make sure they get a big time deal if they trade him.....

I disagree about Gholston. I think that post-combine/pro day, that he will be a top 3 pick and a candidate for #1. Like you, I am a huge fan of his and think he would be a perfect fit. But with no QB here, I just don't see it happening.... I think Jenkins is a possibility at 7, but my guess he ends up in the range in the 10 to 13 range........(That could change post-workouts)

thebow305
02-15-2008, 12:34 PM
Bow,

I agree that #7 is a good price, but remember that the Browns are going to be really scared to trade Anderson unless they are overwhelmed. If Quinn disappoints and Anderson turns into a solid QB for the next few yrs, the Browns would never live it down. They need to make sure they get a big time deal if they trade him.....

I disagree about Gholston. I think that post-combine/pro day, that he will be a top 3 pick and a candidate for #1. Like you, I am a huge fan of his and think he would be a perfect fit. But with no QB here, I just don't see it happening.... I think Jenkins is a possibility at 7, but my guess he ends up in the range in the 10 to 13 range........(That could change post-workouts)


Wait, so you're reasoning for not taking Gholston is because we have no QB? What about Chris Long then? Or is that just if we have the # 7 pick? Because I believe if we do stay at one, Chris Long or Vernon Gholston will be the pick, I like Gholston though!

Quagmire
02-15-2008, 01:08 PM
Wait, so you're reasoning for not taking Gholston is because we have no QB? What about Chris Long then? Or is that just if we have the # 7 pick? Because I believe if we do stay at one, Chris Long or Vernon Gholston will be the pick, I like Gholston though!

My thing is I think if they don't solve their QB problems, then Matt Ryan will be their pick. I think Long is a very safe pick if they chose him, but Gholston has a far better upside.... My preference for any of those guys would be Gholston, but they need to fix the QB position as a priority. I wish that they thought Beck was their guy because that would put them in a much better spot going to this offseason.......

thebow305
02-15-2008, 10:45 PM
My thing is I think if they don't solve their QB problems, then Matt Ryan will be their pick. I think Long is a very safe pick if they chose him, but Gholston has a far better upside.... My preference for any of those guys would be Gholston, but they need to fix the QB position as a priority. I wish that they thought Beck was their guy because that would put them in a much better spot going to this offseason.......

I think they do though, Ireland has stated he was a big fan of Beck before the draft last year, and I doubt that has changed much in a year. Damn I hope they draft Gholston! I'll take Long too, just as long as we don't take Matt Ryan.

sweetd20
02-16-2008, 08:09 AM
I can see Cleveland letting Anderson go to the best offer as long as that other team can work a contract with him. I'm not completely sold on Anderson wih just one good year and a year that he had quite a few picks. He's a big pocket QB and could be Parcells' new Bledsoe in Miami. I think the only teams that might think of going after him are KC and Baltimore and I'm not sure either are that enamored by him to give up a 1st round pick. Where as the Dolphins could try and swing a deal for Taylor and the #32 pick. The Browns have definate needs for defensive help especially on the outside where they have been looking for some added pressure every year that Romeo has been there. In the trade the Browns get rid of the headache of trying to sign Anderson and the QB controversy while gaining what is now the last pick of the 1st round and Taylor to give them that help off the edge.