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bbbtalb0
02-16-2008, 12:52 PM
Scenario: You're stuck at #1, who's the pick?

thebow305
02-16-2008, 03:24 PM
Chris Long or Vernon Gholston

Joeyjr09
02-16-2008, 07:41 PM
Chris Long or Vernon Gholston

Way too early to narrow it down to that. It could be any of Chris Long, Jake Long, Glenn Dorsey, or Matt Ryan with Vernon Gholston and Darren McFadden being dark horses.

draftguru151
02-16-2008, 09:00 PM
Right now I'd go Chris Long with Jake as the other top option.

thebow305
02-17-2008, 12:56 AM
It may be early, but It WILL be one of those two, think what you want, but if we stay at # 1 it will be either Chris Long or Vernon Gholston.

Remember who said it would be Ginn, months before the draft....

Well, I haven't narrowed it down to one single option yet, I'm still breaking it down, but I have it down to 2. Bank on it. You can completely rule out Glenn Dorsey and Jake Long, thats for sure. Most likely Ryan too.

McFadden could be a slight option, but only to use as trade bait, we would never keep him, but I'm still looking at that as an option as well. It's still a little too early to tell.

Joeyjr09
02-17-2008, 09:38 AM
It may be early, but It WILL be one of those two, think what you want, but if we stay at # 1 it will be either Chris Long or Vernon Gholston.

Remember who said it would be Ginn, months before the draft....

Well, I haven't narrowed it down to one single option yet, I'm still breaking it down, but I have it down to 2. Bank on it. You can completely rule out Glenn Dorsey and Jake Long, thats for sure. Most likely Ryan too.

McFadden could be a slight option, but only to use as trade bait, we would never keep him, but I'm still looking at that as an option as well. It's still a little too early to tell.

You've been living off that Ginn prediction since it happened. Get over it man. I remember being right about Cam getting rid of Culpepper when everyone on here thought he was gonna be given a chance yet I don't hold that over people's head.

Don't act like you know everything just because you guessed a pick right.

BigBlueCrew56
02-17-2008, 11:38 AM
Okay here are the top three and I am going to dicuss why we should or shouldnt take them

1. QB Matt Ryan Boston College

Why I would take him:

With John Beck being on the roster it would make sense to get in another QB to compete with him.

Why I wouldnt take him:

I think the Phins need to give John Beck another year with a rebuilt offense. Ireland has already come out and said they where impressed by what they saw of him on film and he looked better then they actually thought. He was also the 1st phone call Ireland reached out too. I feel they should give him his fair shake and add a solid veteran on the roster to bring him along. I wouldnt be opposed to taking a late round flyer on Erick Ainge in the 4th or 5th.


2. DE Chris Long Virginia

Why I would take him:

Long would be a solid player to add to any team and should be a fine defender in a 4-3 or be a 3-4 OLB in the mold of Mike Vrabel.

Why I woulnt take him:

At 6'3 275 he is just too small to play down 3-4 defensive lineman. He did it in college but that wont fly in the pros. Now he could be a great OLB but is he better then Gholston????. The current roster also has Taylor,Porter,Roth, Moses, and A.Wright all whom could be viable options at 3-4 OLB and at very least you could wait another year for adding such a player. So would paying top dollar to an OLB when you already have strong depth at that spot make much sense at this time. In my opinion I dont think so.


3. OT Jake Long Michigan

Why I would take him:

Jake Long is massive at 6'7 330 so he obviously fills the Parcells size requirement. The Phins just purged most of there offensive line by releasing Shelton,Alabi, and Toledo. Carey is a stud but needs someone to play along side of him. With all the big dollars Tackles are getting it should be easy to justify paying Long top dollar. Long and Carey would be young bookend tackles that will lead this offense for many years to come. Some have said why not just sign Flozell. Well because Flozell is old and by the time the team is ready to compete in the next few years he will be that much older. While if you take Long he and Carey will be at there max primes. You could have the option of keeping Carey at LT or moving him back to the right but the most important thing going on here is you have one less thing to worry about which is your offensive line. With Long and Carey they can pound the hell out of teams and protect John Beck or who every the QB is back there.


Why I wouldnt take him:

I really cant find a negative not to take him other then he should be more of a top 3-5 pick then a #1 in any other normal year but this isnt a normal year as there really isnt a clear cut #1 pick other then a guy like McFadden which this team doesnt need. Some say he is too slow for LT but even if he cant beat Carey at LT then he moves over to the right and the team still wins because the line is still solidified.


So after all this being said my pick would be

OT Jake Long Michigan

thebow305
02-17-2008, 12:11 PM
You've been living off that Ginn prediction since it happened. Get over it man. I remember being right about Cam getting rid of Culpepper when everyone on here thought he was gonna be given a chance yet I don't hold that over people's head.

Don't act like you know everything just because you guessed a pick right.

Wow.... you're comparing the Culpepper situation to the Ginn pick... Culpepper was a piece of ****, if you asked me I would've told you he was going to be gone, but I didn't feel like it even deserved any attention at all. Congrats on that... and I'm not saying I know everything, but I do probably know a little more than most. I weigh every little option before the draft and all the evidence as it is, and if anyone would have monitored the Ginn situation as much as I did, they could have predicted it as well. I just do my homework, that's all.

BigBlueCrew56
02-17-2008, 12:23 PM
Feast your eyes on something Long LOL!

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=&categoryId=2806068

BigBlueCrew56
02-17-2008, 01:41 PM
If Jason Taylor is traded before the draft then hands down the selection will be DE/OLB Chris Long.

Joeyjr09
02-17-2008, 02:11 PM
Jake Long is massive at 6'7 330 so he obviously fills the Parcells size requirement. You could have the option of keeping Carey at LT or moving him back to the right

Was this serious? Since when does Jake Long weight 330? He's 6'7 and 310. He's actually very lean. He's not at all the type of beefy 330 pound OL that Parcells likes. He's actually the opposite.

If you draft a OT at number overall, keeping Carey at LT is not an option. Carey as average at best at LT last year and spending a number 1 overall pick on a RT is just not smart management.

I disagree with pretty much your entire assesment of Jake Long.

thebow305
02-17-2008, 02:17 PM
If Jason Taylor is traded before the draft then hands down the selection will be DE/OLB Chris Long.

Or Vernon Gholston... DUH! :D

thebow305
02-17-2008, 02:22 PM
Was this serious? Since when does Jake Long weight 330? He's 6'7 and 310. He's actually very lean. He's not at all the type of beefy 330 pound OL that Parcells likes. He's actually the opposite.

If you draft a OT at number overall, keeping Carey at LT is not an option. Carey as average at best at LT last year and spending a number 1 overall pick on a RT is just not smart management.

I disagree with pretty much your entire assesment of Jake Long.

Carey was a vey solid LT last year, not a Pro Bowler, but did a lot better than expected. He would be a Pro Bowler at G or at RT, but I would not say he was average at all.

BigBlueCrew56
02-17-2008, 03:07 PM
Was this serious? Since when does Jake Long weight 330? He's 6'7 and 310. He's actually very lean. He's not at all the type of beefy 330 pound OL that Parcells likes. He's actually the opposite.

If you draft a OT at number overall, keeping Carey at LT is not an option. Carey as average at best at LT last year and spending a number 1 overall pick on a RT is just not smart management.

I disagree with pretty much your entire assesment of Jake Long.


Jake Long
College Michigan
Conference Big Ten
Sport Football
Position LT
Jersey # 77
Class Senior
Career 2004 – present
Height 6 ft 7 in (2.01 m)
Weight 335 pounds (152.0 kg)
Nationality United States
Born May 9, 1985 (1985-05-09) (age 22)
High school Lapeer East High School,
Lapeer, Michigan
Bowl games

This is straight from his Wikipedia. Now it does look like he is closer to 315 but you act like you've never seen a site post the weight of Jake Long before that has him listed at 330 plus.

Joeyjr09
02-17-2008, 03:35 PM
Jake Long
College Michigan
Conference Big Ten
Sport Football
Position LT
Jersey # 77
Class Senior
Career 2004 – present
Height 6 ft 7 in (2.01 m)
Weight 335 pounds (152.0 kg)
Nationality United States
Born May 9, 1985 (1985-05-09) (age 22)
High school Lapeer East High School,
Lapeer, Michigan
Bowl games

This is straight from his Wikipedia. Now it does look like he is closer to 315 but you act like you've never seen a site post the weight of Jake Long before that has him listed at 330 plus.


Wikipedia has him listed as 315. The official Michigan site has him listed at 315. ESPN has him listed at 315. This site has him listed at 313.

So to anwser your question. No most reliable sites don't list him anywhere near the weight of 330 and he doesn't weight anywhere near 330.

He is not anywhere close to a Parcells type of OT and you should really look at places other then Wikipedia to get your information. Anyone can change anything on that site at any time. It's just an open pool of information, much of it is false and there is nobody there to filter it.

BigBlueCrew56
02-17-2008, 03:40 PM
I dont know if you remember a guy by the name of Jumbo Elliott. But he was one of Bill Parcells favorite guys and he played LT at 6'7 308. Hmmmm that sounds pretty familiar.

BigBlueCrew56
02-17-2008, 03:48 PM
Parcells not only had Jumbo when he was a Giant but he also signed him to play for him on the Jets. But I guess since Jumbo wasnt the quote on quote Bill Parcells type of offensive lineman I guess all those years should just be thrown out the window because all most people can remember are recent images of Flozell Adams in there head.

BigBlueCrew56
02-17-2008, 03:54 PM
Wikipedia has him listed as 315. The official Michigan site has him listed at 315. ESPN has him listed at 315. This site has him listed at 313.

So to anwser your question. No most reliable sites don't list him anywhere near the weight of 330 and he doesn't weight anywhere near 330.

He is not anywhere close to a Parcells type of OT and you should really look at places other then Wikipedia to get your information. Anyone can change anything on that site at any time. It's just an open pool of information, much of it is false and there is nobody there to filter it.


Also just a bit more information for you.

Jumbo Elliott
John Stuart Elliott

Position: T
Height: 6-7 Weight: 308 lbs.
Born: April 1, 1965 in Lake Ronkonkoma, NY
College: Michigan


Hmmm one of Bill Parcells all time favorite lineman. You have to be kidding me if Parcells isnt already comparing Michigan bretheran Elliott and Long.

Joeyjr09
02-17-2008, 03:55 PM
Parcells not only had Jumbo when he was a Giant but he also signed him to play for him on the Jets. But I guess since Jumbo wasnt the quote on quote Bill Parcells type of offensive lineman I guess all those years should just be thrown out the window because all most people can remember are recent images of Flozell Adams in there head.

I hate when people do this. Just because one guy does something doesn't mean they all will. Jumbo Elliot is the exception, not the rule. Parcells only used a handful of 310 pound guys like Jumbo. He had millions of 330 pound guys and has said a bunch of times that he loves huge OLs.

Just because Parcells had luck and liked one 310 pound lineman doesn't mean he's gonna put his preference and history aside for Jake Long.

BigBlueCrew56
02-17-2008, 04:19 PM
How can you honestly tell me that when Parcells has had a LT under 310 pounds for almost his entire coaching career up until he was lucky to inherit an all world LT by the name of Flozell Adams. Damn remember Bruce Armstrong his Left Tackle with the Patriots,he was only about 6'4 300. One thing in common about Flozell,Jumbo, and Long is that they all push 6'7.

draftguru151
02-17-2008, 04:37 PM
Long is a huge mauling tackle, just because he's not 330 right now (he's played there earlier in his career though) doesn't mean he's not going to fit the mold the Parcells is looking for.

BigBlueCrew56
02-17-2008, 04:41 PM
Long is a huge mauling tackle, just because he's not 330 right now (he's played there earlier in his career though) doesn't mean he's not going to fit the mold the Parcells is looking for.

Assuming Beck is at QB we are going to be playing a ton of ball control offense. Long is a solid run blocker and would fit in well in that type of offense.

thebow305
02-17-2008, 06:30 PM
This argument will be a Non-factor when we draft Chris Long or Vernon Gholston, and NOT Jake Long.

BigBlueCrew56
02-17-2008, 06:50 PM
This argument will be a Non-factor when we draft Chris Long or Vernon Gholston, and NOT Jake Long.


I wouldnt be apposed to drafting either but I would then have to assume that there is a deal in place to deal away Jason Taylor for a 2nd or a 3rd. Porter isnt going anywhere with the guaranteed money that has been invested in him already. Then you have a player in Matt Roth whom I feel has a ton of potential playing as an OLB in the 3-4. He has played linebacker before and at 6'4 270 has the exact same measurables as does a Long. He also has an attitude and a non stop motor that the Parcells coaching staff will love. Then they are the dark horses in Quentin Moses and Abraham Wright whom have potential to do great things as well if given the chance in a base 3-4 defense. If Parcells plans on keeping Taylor for a few more years it would be non sense to spend a high draft pick on someone who will be backing up the OLB spots. You want to draft at a spot where I think we actually have some decent talent in the pipe lines to go along with two veterans. As of today we only have one current viable starter at OT with not a worthy backup to speak of with the release of Alabi,Toledo, and Shelton.

BigBlueCrew56
02-17-2008, 07:10 PM
I am hoping that Parcells can get his hands on a vet like Todd Collins to bring John Beck along. Not too many good vet F/A QB's out there. Really dont want to see Matt Ryan as the #1 pick.

Quagmire
02-18-2008, 10:35 AM
If you are stuck at #1 and the QB position has not been addressed, I have a feeling that Ryan is the pick. If somehow they do something at QB (don't know what) then I think they pick either C. Long or Gholston. Though I would lean Gholston, I think they lean for Long. I do not see Jake Long because I think he is not a good enough pass blocker for LT. Gholston ate him alive and NFL pass rushers will do the same at LT. I believe Mayock called him a great prospect at RT. No way I think you take a RT at #1....

C. Long is a safe pick who could play 3-4 DE or OLB if he drops a few pounds and you don't have to doubt the effort.

I think right now it is 51-49 Ryan over C. Long if QB is not fixed and if it somehow is, then it is 70-30 Long over Gholston.

toonsterwu
02-19-2008, 06:12 PM
I tend to think that, with the chances of finding a solid OL talent at one of their 2nd round spots, I'm just not sure Jake Long is on level with the others in the competition unless they absolutely love him to that extent, which I would find a bit surprising. My guess as of now is that it'll come down to (and as of now, this would be the order I'd rank it as): Matt Ryan, Chris Long, Vernon Gholston with Jake Long probably 4th in that bnch.

thebow305
02-19-2008, 11:01 PM
I tend to think that, with the chances of finding a solid OL talent at one of their 2nd round spots, I'm just not sure Jake Long is on level with the others in the competition unless they absolutely love him to that extent, which I would find a bit surprising. My guess as of now is that it'll come down to (and as of now, this would be the order I'd rank it as): Matt Ryan, Chris Long, Vernon Gholston with Jake Long probably 4th in that bnch.

I agree with everything you said up until Matt Ryan being option number 1. Most people think Ryan could be Parcell's next Bledsoe, but I have no reason to believe Flacco couldn't be, and for a much cheaper price in the 2nd round. He has a stronger arm, is more mobile, and looked pretty accurate at the Senior Bowl. They only question is the competition, but the guy just seems like a competitor to me, bottom line.

Taking Ryan with the 1st would almost be admitting failure last year and completely throwing away a 2nd round pick. I just don't think it would be the most productive thing to do as a team when we have so many other glaring deficiencies on this roster. We need to trade down, but if we don't, we need to take the BPA on either the offensive or defensive lines, which are the most glaring needs on this team right now. And since I agree so much with you about Jake Long not being far and away the best at his position, Chris Long or Vernon Gholston need to be the pick at number 1, that's the way I see it.

NGSeiler
02-20-2008, 01:03 AM
Taking Ryan with the 1st would almost be admitting failure last year

You don't think after going 1-15, bringing in an executive vice president in Parcells, and firing both the one-year head coach and the team's GM means they've already admitted to failure? I don't see why the organization would feel the need to save face on their second round draft pick.

Anywho, FWIW, this was posted in a Rams beat writer blog, but since it had other NFL tidbits, I thought I would put it here...

Kiper seemed pretty confident that the Miami Dolphins under new Executive Vice President of Football Operations Bill Parcells will take Boston College QB Matt Ryan with the No. 1 overall pick.

“If they don’t feel like John Beck is the right guy moving forward with, then they need to draft Matt Ryan,’’ Kiper said. “He drafted Drew Bledsoe up in New England, and I think Matt Ryan is the kind of quarterback that fits what Bill wants.

“Had they drafted Brady Quinn last instead of Ted Ginn (Jr.) last year, the previous administration, they wouldn’t be drafting Matt Ryan. Brady Quinn would their guy moving forward. Now instead of using that pick on another position or trading it, they are almost forced to take Matt Ryan.’’

http://bellevillenewsdemocrat.typepad.com/ramblings/2008/02/mel-kiper-rams.html

brat316
02-20-2008, 01:46 AM
I think its going to be a D player that can step up and make an impact in the 3-4. Thats just Parcells, then again he did get Key Johnson. I think its going to be a Lb like Golston. In a 3-4 paying that much money for a DT and even a DE is ridiculous they are there to eat up block and stop the run, while the lbs make a majority of the plays in pass rushing and even run stopping.

I also see him maybe taking Ryan, they did draft a qb last season, but this is a new coachs team, so maybe he wants his own players.

thebow305
02-20-2008, 10:12 AM
You don't think after going 1-15, bringing in an executive vice president in Parcells, and firing both the one-year head coach and the team's GM means they've already admitted to failure? I don't see why the organization would feel the need to save face on their second round draft pick.

Anywho, FWIW, this was posted in a Rams beat writer blog, but since it had other NFL tidbits, I thought I would put it here...



http://bellevillenewsdemocrat.typepad.com/ramblings/2008/02/mel-kiper-rams.html

Kiper is never right anymore, bottom line. I never listen to that guy. Frankly, I don't know how he even still has a job.

draftguru151
02-20-2008, 01:54 PM
Matt Ryan is a lot bigger option than I original thought apparently. I figured it was between the Longs but I heard Ireland wants Ryan.

Also, I doubt the new regime really cares to admit last year was a failure, it wasn't them that made the Beck pick.

Quagmire
02-20-2008, 04:10 PM
Matt Ryan is a lot bigger option than I original thought apparently. I figured it was between the Longs but I heard Ireland wants Ryan.

Also, I doubt the new regime really cares to admit last year was a failure, it wasn't them that made the Beck pick.

Guru,

I think that unless they really decide to move out for a big package of picks, that Ryan is the guy. If they don't solve it before the draft (Derek Anderson is the only way) then they have to go QB. I hope they are right because I sure don't see him as a can't miss guy.........

thebow305
02-20-2008, 05:38 PM
But wasn't it originially stated by Ireland that he was really high on Beck before the draft last year and that one year didn't really change that? I doubt that he's the one who wants Ryan. And I also read that the coaches were taking a long hard look at Flacco during the Senior Bowl and seemed to be very interested. I could see him being our pick at 33 more than I could see Ryan at # 1 Overall.

HEISMANHERSCHEL
02-20-2008, 11:44 PM
Wow. I would be surprised if yall keep the first pick at all. For several reasons.

1) Your front seven is good, but old. I think Parcells is always looking for a playmaker in the front seven.

2) I am not sold yall need a quarterback. I didnt think Beck looked horrible.

3) With Ronnie Brown (and Lorenzo Booker, who I have not given up on, yet) DMAC is not a need.

4) Again, your front sevens old. I would bet Parcells will be looking to find 3-4players, just like he did here in Dallas.

I would bet Parcells has yall competitive in no time. But not with one blue-chip prospect. I think he will do it with several players he obtains from the pick.

thebow305
02-21-2008, 12:53 AM
Wow. I would be surprised if yall keep the first pick at all. For several reasons.

1) Your front seven is good, but old. I think Parcells is always looking for a playmaker in the front seven.

2) I am not sold yall need a quarterback. I didnt think Beck looked horrible.

3) With Ronnie Brown (and Lorenzo Booker, who I have not given up on, yet) DMAC is not a need.

4) Again, your front sevens old. I would bet Parcells will be looking to find 3-4players, just like he did here in Dallas.

I would bet Parcells has yall competitive in no time. But not with one blue-chip prospect. I think he will do it with several players he obtains from the pick.

I sure hope you're right!

But if we must stay, the pick has to be Gholston.

BigBlueCrew56
02-21-2008, 07:26 AM
I agree with everything you said up until Matt Ryan being option number 1. Most people think Ryan could be Parcell's next Bledsoe, but I have no reason to believe Flacco couldn't be, and for a much cheaper price in the 2nd round. He has a stronger arm, is more mobile, and looked pretty accurate at the Senior Bowl. They only question is the competition, but the guy just seems like a competitor to me, bottom line.

Taking Ryan with the 1st would almost be admitting failure last year and completely throwing away a 2nd round pick. I just don't think it would be the most productive thing to do as a team when we have so many other glaring deficiencies on this roster. We need to trade down, but if we don't, we need to take the BPA on either the offensive or defensive lines, which are the most glaring needs on this team right now. And since I agree so much with you about Jake Long not being far and away the best at his position, Chris Long or Vernon Gholston need to be the pick at number 1, that's the way I see it.

I agree with everything you said in this post. There is no reason for Parcells to reach for a QB here. With Beck in the fold he needs to wait for the later rounds maybe even in the early third and see if Joe Flacco falls to them. If he doesnt it's no big deal because we could always take a flyer on Erick Ainge in the 4th or 5th. I do beleive that this regime will draft here QB but i dont beleive it will be Matt Ryan with the 1st pick. Pick up a veteran like Todd Collins and have them all compete in camp and may the best QB win.

BigBlueCrew56
02-21-2008, 07:28 AM
Parcells and Ireland have there eyes on Joe Flacco. He seems like the prototypical guy that these guys like. No pressure for him to come in right away and shine like it would be with the #1 pick of the draft.

HEISMANHERSCHEL
02-29-2008, 02:12 AM
I can see none of you have kept this thread open, but I see a trade happening, and wanted to get your reaction to it.

I can see Dallas' two first round picks, Bobby Carpenter, and probably other players for #1. It makes sense for these reason:

1) Parcells will run a 3-4, sooner or later. He needs players.
2) Carpenter fits the bill as either a 3-4 or 4-3 player.
3) Carpenter is still very young and has talent.
4) Dallas just signed Zach Thomas and Drafted Anthony Spencer last year. Carpenter is expendable.
5) Parcells drafted Carpenter, and he is a "Parcells" guy.
6) Without paying #1 pick money, you could spend the money in free agency, making the team more competitive now.
7) This seems to me to be a good draft to have later first round picks.
8) Jerry loves Arkansas.
9) No one player in the draft will make yall much better than you already are.

Yall would have three of the first 32 picks after the trade. That is rebuilding, right there...

It makes sense to me. Yea, we might have have to throw in a few other players. Not sure who that would consist of, but we have the talent to trade some of them.

Any feedback yall can give would be appreciated...

draftguru151
02-29-2008, 03:11 PM
I'm buying Matt Ryan right now if we stay at one.

As for the trade, I see both 1s and Barber being in it if it happens. I'd like to have Carpenter in the trade as well, but his value isn't going to make up for Barber's.

Finsfan79
02-29-2008, 11:23 PM
Jake long please

I think Chris long is very over-rated on these forums

Finsfan79
02-29-2008, 11:25 PM
I can see none of you have kept this thread open, but I see a trade happening, and wanted to get your reaction to it.

I can see Dallas' two first round picks, Bobby Carpenter, and probably other players for #1. It makes sense for these reason:

1) Parcells will run a 3-4, sooner or later. He needs players.
2) Carpenter fits the bill as either a 3-4 or 4-3 player.
3) Carpenter is still very young and has talent.
4) Dallas just signed Zach Thomas and Drafted Anthony Spencer last year. Carpenter is expendable.
5) Parcells drafted Carpenter, and he is a "Parcells" guy.
6) Without paying #1 pick money, you could spend the money in free agency, making the team more competitive now.
7) This seems to me to be a good draft to have later first round picks.
8) Jerry loves Arkansas.
9) No one player in the draft will make yall much better than you already are.

Yall would have three of the first 32 picks after the trade. That is rebuilding, right there...

It makes sense to me. Yea, we might have have to throw in a few other players. Not sure who that would consist of, but we have the talent to trade some of them.

Any feedback yall can give would be appreciated...

2 1st and spears makes more sense for us personally if barber was not part of it. He fits our needs and you all couldeasily fill in for his loss.

Joeyjr09
02-29-2008, 11:38 PM
I can see none of you have kept this thread open, but I see a trade happening, and wanted to get your reaction to it.

I can see Dallas' two first round picks, Bobby Carpenter, and probably other players for #1. It makes sense for these reason:

1) Parcells will run a 3-4, sooner or later. He needs players.
2) Carpenter fits the bill as either a 3-4 or 4-3 player.
3) Carpenter is still very young and has talent.
4) Dallas just signed Zach Thomas and Drafted Anthony Spencer last year. Carpenter is expendable.
5) Parcells drafted Carpenter, and he is a "Parcells" guy.
6) Without paying #1 pick money, you could spend the money in free agency, making the team more competitive now.
7) This seems to me to be a good draft to have later first round picks.
8) Jerry loves Arkansas.
9) No one player in the draft will make yall much better than you already are.

Yall would have three of the first 32 picks after the trade. That is rebuilding, right there...

It makes sense to me. Yea, we might have have to throw in a few other players. Not sure who that would consist of, but we have the talent to trade some of them.

Any feedback yall can give would be appreciated...

Outside of the obvious Miami gets more picks and Carpenter is a Parcells guy, that list is 199 percetn from teh Dallas point of view and why it makes sense for them. Not really necessary on a Dolphins board.

Anyway tho, I doubt this trade gets made with just two 1sts, and a couple of players. They would have to be pretty high level players. If you were to take a 500 discount (equal to a 2 RD pick) from the TVC, the Cowboys would still need to give up 3 1sts and a later pick jus to get it close.

They aren't gonna do that so giving up both 1sts, a guy worth something (ex. Barber, Canty, Spencer) and another later pick (4th RD?) is round about where the deal should fall.

Giving up a package of both 1sts, Spears and Carpenter isn't gonna get it done at this point I wouldn't think. Spears and Parcells have a vad relationship and Carpenter isn't worth a damn thing right now even if he is a Parcells guy (BTW. half the league are Parcells guys so who cares). He's been a bust and not worth more then a low round pick at this point.

A deal of both 1sts, Barber and a 4th would be perfect.

A deal of both 1sts, Spears and Carpenter is leaning way heavily towards the Cowboys.

Wonder if they meet somewhere in the middle?

Maybe both 1sts, a 3rd and Doug Free?

thebow305
03-01-2008, 12:49 AM
I want to stay at number one, or number 3 if we make a trade with ATL because of Ryan, and take Chris Long or Vernon Gholston. That is my favorite option right now.

Option number 2 for me would be Trade #1 to Dallas for #22, #28, Marion Barber, and Bobby Carpenter. I think that would work. I really only would want that if we signed Calvin Pace, because I want Chris Long or Vernon Gholston pretty badly at this point. Pace would ease me on both of them a little and would make a trade ok in my mind. Unless we traded Taylor after signing Pace, then I would still want CL or VG.

Oh well, I guess I'll just have to wait and see how this thing plays out.

BigBlueCrew56
03-01-2008, 07:03 AM
Cmon guys lets get real here. I know there is some real deep infatuation with Chris Long and Vernon Gholston but if Calvin Pace signs for 20 Mil plus guaranteed then we need to start looking elsewhere in the draft. We will be loaded at the 3-4 OLB position even with a trade of Jason Taylor. Another thing is Chris Long will not be a 3-4 DE either as he is vastly undersized for that in the pros. Bill just signed a guy in Randy Starks who played 3-4 end for Maryland who is freakin 6'3 312 pounds.

OLB Calvin Pace
OLB Joey Porter
OLB Reggie Torbor
OLB Matt Roth
OLB Abraham Wright
OLB Jason Taylor (Possible trade bait)


And please stop with the talk of Long playing ILB or Pace playing ILB. You dont pay all this money to have these guys play ILB. You pay them to get to the QB. Releasing Porter seems like a stretch after giving him 20 million in guarantees. I dont think Huizenga wants to admit just yet that he just wasted all that money. Torbor was an undersized DE at Auburn so he may be a nice role player off the bench. The guy too look out for is Matt Roth. At 6'3 270 and experience playing both LB and DE in college is a natural fit at the 3-4. Let alone a nice project player in Wright. The pick is going to come down too QB Matt Ryan or OT Jake Long. I dont think anybody is going to trade up. But if Atlanta is dead set on Ryan then we have them by the ballz now because Chris Long is no longer a lock to us. If we can squeeze them then the draft will fall like this

1. Atlanta- QB Matt Ryan

2. St. Louis- DE Chris Long

3. Miami - OT Jake Long

or

1. Miami- OT Jake Long or QB Matt Ryan

2. St.Louis- DE Chris Long

3. Atlanta- QB Matt Ryan or OT Jake Long

Joeyjr09
03-01-2008, 07:58 AM
Cmon guys lets get real here. I know there is some real deep infatuation with Chris Long and Vernon Gholston but if Calvin Pace signs for 20 Mil plus guaranteed then we need to start looking elsewhere in the draft. We will be loaded at the 3-4 OLB position even with a trade of Jason Taylor. Another thing is Chris Long will not be a 3-4 DE either as he is vastly undersized for that in the pros. Bill just signed a guy in Randy Starks who played 3-4 end for Maryland who is freakin 6'3 312 pounds.

OLB Calvin Pace
OLB Joey Porter
OLB Reggie Torbor
OLB Matt Roth
OLB Abraham Wright
OLB Jason Taylor (Possible trade bait)


And please stop with the talk of Long playing ILB or Pace playing ILB. You dont pay all this money to have these guys play ILB. You pay them to get to the QB. Releasing Porter seems like a stretch after giving him 20 million in guarantees. I dont think Huizenga wants to admit just yet that he just wasted all that money. Torbor was an undersized DE at Auburn so he may be a nice role player off the bench. The guy too look out for is Matt Roth. At 6'3 270 and experience playing both LB and DE in college is a natural fit at the 3-4. Let alone a nice project player in Wright. The pick is going to come down too QB Matt Ryan or OT Jake Long. I dont think anybody is going to trade up. But if Atlanta is dead set on Ryan then we have them by the ballz now because Chris Long is no longer a lock to us. If we can squeeze them then the draft will fall like this

1. Atlanta- QB Matt Ryan

2. St. Louis- DE Chris Long

3. Miami - OT Jake Long

or

1. Miami- OT Jake Long or QB Matt Ryan

2. St.Louis- DE Chris Long

3. Atlanta- QB Matt Ryan or OT Jake Long


Bro..Why do you assume we are moving Matt Roth to OLB? HE has played nothing but DE since his freshaman year of college and we are hurting for DEs on our roster. With us having JT, Porter, Torbor and likely another pick or Pace at OLB, Roth is gonna be staying at DE.

I mean damn you tell us to stop the talk about Pace or Long at ILB but you keep saying Roth to OLB with no evidence, link or anything of substance to back up that claim. It's just you talking.

The situation could easily work out like this:

OLB- Chris Long/Vernon Gholston
ILB- Reggie Torbor
ILB- Channing Crowder
OLB- Calvin Pace, Joey Porter

And then JT gets dealt. Suddenly our position is Long and Pace with an aging Porter as the top backup and Abe Wright being groomed as a sorta swing OLB. Matt Roth is a FA after next season and will likely not be back because he doesn't fit the system. He will likely play DE this season and that walk at the end of the year. It's very realistic that we still draft an OLB like Long or Gholston so stop getting all bent out of shape over it and saying we are the ones infatuated with those guys when you are so damn obviously ready to get on your knees and blow Jake Long if he walked in your room.

I mean chill bro. I know you like Jake Long and he could be the pick but Chris Long and Vernon Gholston are still very realistic options no matter what at this point.

BigBlueCrew56
03-01-2008, 10:30 AM
Bro..Why do you assume we are moving Matt Roth to OLB? HE has played nothing but DE since his freshaman year of college and we are hurting for DEs on our roster. With us having JT, Porter, Torbor and likely another pick or Pace at OLB, Roth is gonna be staying at DE.

I mean damn you tell us to stop the talk about Pace or Long at ILB but you keep saying Roth to OLB with no evidence, link or anything of substance to back up that claim. It's just you talking.

The situation could easily work out like this:

OLB- Chris Long/Vernon Gholston
ILB- Reggie Torbor
ILB- Channing Crowder
OLB- Calvin Pace, Joey Porter

And then JT gets dealt. Suddenly our position is Long and Pace with an aging Porter as the top backup and Abe Wright being groomed as a sorta swing OLB. Matt Roth is a FA after next season and will likely not be back because he doesn't fit the system. He will likely play DE this season and that walk at the end of the year. It's very realistic that we still draft an OLB like Long or Gholston so stop getting all bent out of shape over it and saying we are the ones infatuated with those guys when you are so damn obviously ready to get on your knees and blow Jake Long if he walked in your room.

I mean chill bro. I know you like Jake Long and he could be the pick but Chris Long and Vernon Gholston are still very realistic options no matter what at this point.


College career
Roth was a two-time First Team All-Big Ten selection and an All-America selection as a senior during his collegiate career at the University of Iowa.

He was regarded as one of the premier pass rushers in the collegiate ranks and one of the toughest players in the country.[citation needed] He was a blue-chip NFL prospect with a blue-collar work ethic.[citation needed] Roth is a colorful character who plays the game as if he is on a "search and destroy" mission.[citation needed] He is the source of a campus urban legend, as many Hawkeyes talk of the time Roth challenged and cleared out an entire bar in a fight.[citation needed]

Roth began his Iowa career as a middle linebacker, recording 19 tackles (12 solo) in 12 games as a reserve in 2001. He shifted to the defensive line in 2002, as the coaches felt he played with too aggressively to be effective as a linebacker. Roth responded to the move by recording 48 tackles (22 solo) with 10 sacks, 11 stops behind the line of scrimmage and 11 quarterback pressures, despite starting only one game. Roth took over left-end duties in 2003, collecting 51 tackles (32 solo),12 sacks, 16 stops for losses and four forced fumbles. Only Leroy Smith (18 in 1991) had more sacks in a season for the Hawkeyes.

With an additional 10 pounds of muscle added to his frame in 2004, Roth put together a banner senior season, earning All-America honors. He ranked fourth in the Big Ten with eight sacks and registered 15 stops for losses (sixth in the Big Ten), eight pressures and 49 tackles (34 solo) while leading the conference with three forced fumbles.

In 49 games, he started 25 times, recording 167 tackles (100 solo) with 23 quarterback pressures, 30 sacks for minus-192 yards, 43 stops for losses of 224 yards, eight forced fumbles, a fumble recovery and a pass deflection. His 30 career sacks rank third in school history, topped only by Mike Wells (33, 1990-93) and Jared DeVries (42, 1995-98). Only Wells (54) and DeVries (78) registered more tackles behind the line of scrimmage in a career for the Hawkeyes.


PFW: A big reason you went to Iowa was because you could continue to play linebacker as you did in high school. Eventually the coaches put you in a three-point stance, and things have worked out pretty well. What did you think of the move at the time?

Roth: The move, at first, I didn’t like it. In high school, I pretty much had free reign to do anything, so I played linebacker … the coach pretty much told me, ‘If it was a pass, just blitz.’ So it was taking a while (at Iowa) to understand the different pass coverages, and I think they felt coming in I was going to be a big kid and that I could move really well and that they could see me as a down lineman. So it came on, and I was picking up the defense toward the end of (my freshman) season, learning my coverages, and I think they just saw me as a defensive end and (that I) could help out right away. I moved there, and going into my sophomore season I played about 40 percent of the defensive plays and led the Big Ten in sacks with 10.



PFW: Any chance you might play standing up a little in the pros? How would you feel about that, especially now that more teams are using 3-4 defenses?

Roth: More than anything, I think I am just a football player. Do I think I could play outside linebacker? Yeah, I think I could jump in right away. I think I have learned a lot, defensive line-wise, about using my hands. I think I could fit in well at linebacker, rushing and doing all that stuff. I think I am pretty dang good at defensive end too



How much more info do you need about Matt Roth playing linebacker. Of course he's played nothing but DE for the Phins and that is because we never really ran a freakin true 3-4. He is only 272 pounds! how is he going to hold the point of attack in the 3-4.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2005/edholm022305.htm


http://www.nfldraftscout.com/news/interviews.php?subaction=showfull&id=1113851637&archive=&start_from=&ucat=4&

BigBlueCrew56
03-01-2008, 10:36 AM
Moving Chris Long or Calvin Pace to ILB would be a total waste of there pass rushing skills. Do you expect them to be great at coverage at a good 270 pounds from the ILB spot.

BigBlueCrew56
03-01-2008, 10:38 AM
I know we need help at DE but it aint going to come from the undersized Roth. He is just like Chris Long in stature.

BigBlueCrew56
03-01-2008, 10:43 AM
[QUOTE=Joeyjr09;926450]Bro..Why do you assume we are moving Matt Roth to OLB? HE has played nothing but DE since his freshaman year of college and we are hurting for DEs on our roster. With us having JT, Porter, Torbor and likely another pick or Pace at OLB, Roth is gonna be staying at DE.

I mean damn you tell us to stop the talk about Pace or Long at ILB but you keep saying Roth to OLB with no evidence, link or anything of substance to back up that claim. It's just you talking.

The situation could easily work out like this:

OLB- Chris Long/Vernon Gholston
ILB- Reggie Torbor
ILB- Channing Crowder
OLB- Calvin Pace, Joey Porter

And then JT gets dealt. Suddenly our position is Long and Pace with an aging Porter as the top backup and Abe Wright being groomed as a sorta swing OLB. Matt Roth is a FA after next season and will likely not be back because he doesn't fit the system. He will likely play DE this season and that walk at the end of the year. It's very realistic that we still draft an OLB like Long or Gholston so stop getting all bent out of shape over it and saying we are the ones infatuated with those guys when you are so damn obviously ready to get on your knees and blow Jake Long if he walked in your room. [B]I mean chill bro. I know you like Jake Long and he could be the pick but Chris Long and Vernon Gholston are still very realistic options no matter what at this point.[/QUOTE


You are kidding me right??????? Get on my knees for Jake Long HA HA HA that was pretty rediculous for you to come out with a statement like that. Pretty childish if you ask me. I have never stated that Jake Long is the guy that belongs to 100% to be the #1 overall pick to the Phins. I am stating that now that the position seems well in hand at 3-4 OLB that either he or Matt Ryan would be the pick because of the needs the NEEDS once again. And yes i would prefer Jake Long over Matt Ryan at this point. We are still missing the other half of our line. Now if you dont sign Calvin Pace then I can see where it now makes sense to grab Long or Gholston. Especially with a trade of Taylor.

If you paid attention to my last mock you could see that I obviously saw the need for Chris Long at #1. Yes I have made a case for Jake Long to be #1 in the past if we still have Taylor and Porter on the roster. But I can see why Chris Long would have made sense back then. But now you compound it by adding a 20 million dollar guaranteed OLB to go along with another one in Porter who is almost impossible to deal at this point. There is where I see the need to now draft a Long or a Ryan. I am not trying to get into a bitchfest argument with you or anybody else. Just trying to get an educated point across or opionion as in the end we all want what's best for this team. I'am Out

thebow305
03-01-2008, 11:13 AM
Cmon guys lets get real here. I know there is some real deep infatuation with Chris Long and Vernon Gholston but if Calvin Pace signs for 20 Mil plus guaranteed then we need to start looking elsewhere in the draft. We will be loaded at the 3-4 OLB position even with a trade of Jason Taylor. Another thing is Chris Long will not be a 3-4 DE either as he is vastly undersized for that in the pros. Bill just signed a guy in Randy Starks who played 3-4 end for Maryland who is freakin 6'3 312 pounds.

OLB Calvin Pace
OLB Joey Porter
OLB Reggie Torbor
OLB Matt Roth
OLB Abraham Wright
OLB Jason Taylor (Possible trade bait)


And please stop with the talk of Long playing ILB or Pace playing ILB. You dont pay all this money to have these guys play ILB. You pay them to get to the QB. Releasing Porter seems like a stretch after giving him 20 million in guarantees. I dont think Huizenga wants to admit just yet that he just wasted all that money. Torbor was an undersized DE at Auburn so he may be a nice role player off the bench. The guy too look out for is Matt Roth. At 6'3 270 and experience playing both LB and DE in college is a natural fit at the 3-4. Let alone a nice project player in Wright. The pick is going to come down too QB Matt Ryan or OT Jake Long. I dont think anybody is going to trade up. But if Atlanta is dead set on Ryan then we have them by the ballz now because Chris Long is no longer a lock to us. If we can squeeze them then the draft will fall like this

1. Atlanta- QB Matt Ryan

2. St. Louis- DE Chris Long

3. Miami - OT Jake Long

or

1. Miami- OT Jake Long or QB Matt Ryan

2. St.Louis- DE Chris Long

3. Atlanta- QB Matt Ryan or OT Jake Long


First of all, I don't know why you assume Abe Wright actually fits into the equation at all. He was a 7th round pick and project player, and at this point, Parcells doesn't seem like he's willing to take on any projects. I doubt very highly he make it out of camp on the active roster, same going for Moses. And I agree with Joeyjr, I don't see Roth playing OLB for us nor do I see him lasting past this year. Even with Pace, Porter, and Taylor, I could still see Chris Long being the pick, because Frankly, Jake is not worth the #1 overall selection. If we do keep Jason, I could very easily see him actually getting kicked inside. Similiar to what NE has done with Mike Vrabel and Adalius Thomas, who are obvious outside linebackers. They were just putting the best players on the field, and those players are very versatile and JT is as well. JT intercepts quite a few balls when dropping back into coverage, so I know he's got the smarts and field savvy to play inside and cover, as well as blitz from the inside occasionally. Then Joey Porter would be a top backup, or start until Chris is ready to step in full time. They won't cut him, it would hurt our cap too much. But I could definitely see him as a GREAT situational pass rusher.

I could see it going like this:

LOLB: Chris Long/Joey Porter
LILB: Channing Crowder
RILB: Jason Taylor
ROLB: Calvin Pace

Just something else for you guys to consider with that lineup. It would be a lot of money at one position, but as the Giants have shown, you can never have too many great pass rusher, and JT and JP are up in years so they won't be around much longer, maybe not even past this year. So we ride that great pass rush until next year when JP and JT are gone, then our lineup will be in great shape still for '09:

LOLB: Chris Long
LILB: Channing Crowder
RILB: Reggie Torbor
ROLB: Calvin Pace


I just don't see, with Chris's great work ethic and him being the exact type of player that Bill would want, along with the ties to Virginia under former BP assistant Al Groh, that Chris wouldn't be the pick. It seems to be too perfect a fit. Add in that he seems to be the most NFL-Ready player in the draft, for a coach that wants to win now and not wait for the long development of young players. It seems like the can't miss slam dunk pick that Ireland and Parcells need to make for this team. I just hope they go through with it in the end!

Joeyjr09
03-01-2008, 11:23 AM
Bro you brought up an old article that I remember reading when Roth from before Roth was ever drafted and he hasn't been a LB since he was 18 years old for Christs sake.

Please, until someone with some real clout on the Dolphins comes out and says anything about Roth moving from DE, your just another person talking and speculating and it means nothing. Roth ahs been a DE all thru college and in all thru his Pro career. No reason to think a new coach is suddenly gonna make a change like this. You have to hear something from the coach to think this is gonna happen and do you really think there would be such speculation about us signing Pace and drafting Gholston/Long if we were moving Roth to OLB? Come on man, get real. Just because you think Roth can potentially make the switch doesn't mean he will. The 49ers just signed Justin Smith who plays exactly like Roth to be a DE in their 3-4 front.

I see your trying to get an point across on why we should take Jake Long but your attitude of "y'all are dumb we need Jake and not a OLB" makes no sense. All I've seen you do is talk down to people that don't want Jake Long and your constantly all over the place trying to talk us into wanting him.

This is the deepest OT class of the past 10 years. We can get a 10 year LT at the top (or even bottom if people slide) of round 2. There isn't that luxury with OLBs in this draft and Chris Long and Vernon Gholston are the two biggest defensive game changers in the draft.

Like I said, even if we sign Pace (which still has yet to happen). There is situations where we will need an OLB. Joey Porter and JT have 2 years in them max and Porter already sucks. Why would we pass on the best D players in the draft for a OT when we can get a similar OT in round 2?

Like I said before (which you ignored)

OLB-Calvin Pace, Joey Porter
ILB-Channing Crowder
ILB-Reggie Torbor
OLB-Chris Long/Vernon Gholston

That gets works for them now and Porter is likely gone after next season anyways once his cap number gets to a point where we can cut him. Trade JT for a 2nd and suddenly you have more youth and talented from our all important OLB spots and still numerous picks to address your OL and LT in round 2.

Your negatively towards Long and Gholston just gets annoying. We could definately use both of those guys and they would be welcome additions but all you do is nag and come out with excuses for us to take Jake Long because you like him.

Joeyjr09
03-01-2008, 11:29 AM
First of all, I don't know why you assume Abe Wright actually fits into the equation at all. He was a 7th round pick and project player, and at this point, Parcells doesn't seem like he's willing to take on any projects. I doubt very highly he make it out of camp on the active roster, same going for Moses. And I agree with Joeyjr, I don't see Roth playing OLB for us nor do I see him lasting past this year. Even with Pace, Porter, and Taylor, I could still see Chris Long being the pick, because Frankly, Jake is not worth the #1 overall selection. If we do keep Jason, I could very easily see him actually getting kicked inside. Similiar to what NE has done with Mike Vrabel and Adalius Thomas, who are obvious outside linebackers. They were just putting the best players on the field, and those players are very versatile and JT is as well. JT intercepts quite a few balls when dropping back into coverage, so I know he's got the smarts and field savvy to play inside and cover, as well as blitz from the inside occasionally. Then Joey Porter would be a top backup, or start until Chris is ready to step in full time. They won't cut him, it would hurt our cap too much. But I could definitely see him as a GREAT situational pass rusher.

I could see it going like this:

LOLB: Chris Long/Joey Porter
LILB: Channing Crowder
RILB: Jason Taylor
ROLB: Calvin Pace

Just something else for you guys to consider with that lineup. It would be a lot of money at one position, but as the Giants have shown, you can never have too many great pass rusher, and JT and JP are up in years so they won't be around much longer, maybe not even past this year. So we ride that great pass rush until next year when JP and JT are gone, then our lineup will be in great shape still for '09:

LOLB: Chris Long
LILB: Channing Crowder
RILB: Reggie Torbor
ROLB: Calvin Pace


I just don't see, with Chris's great work ethic and him being the exact type of player that Bill would want, along with the ties to Virginia under former BP assistant Al Groh, that Chris wouldn't be the pick. It seems to be too perfect a fit. Add in that he seems to be the most NFL-Ready player in the draft, for a coach that wants to win now and not wait for the long development of young players. It seems like the can't miss slam dunk pick that Ireland and Parcells need to make for this team. I just hope they go through with it in the end!

Bow, I can't believe I'm saying this but please God help me talk sense into this guy. All he does is hug Jake Long's nuts. I like Jake but damn already, there's a million different things we coudl do with the pick that would be huge help for us and Jake Long is on the middle of that list of things at best.

If we stay at number 1 you have to get the best player and that means Chris Long. If we can swing a trade down to number 3 then with Chris gone I'm all for drafting Jake Long. There's many different situations that can play out but coming up with all these theories because BBC wants Jake Long is just crazy. We need OLBs badly as well.

thebow305
03-01-2008, 11:31 AM
Bro you brought up an old article that I remember reading when Roth from before Roth was ever drafted and he hasn't been a LB since he was 18 years old for Christs sake.

Please, until someone with some real clout on the Dolphins comes out and says anything about Roth moving from DE, your just another person talking and speculating and it means nothing. Roth ahs been a DE all thru college and in all thru his Pro career. No reason to think a new coach is suddenly gonna make a change like this. You have to hear something from the coach to think this is gonna happen and do you really think there would be such speculation about us signing Pace and drafting Gholston/Long if we were moving Roth to OLB? Come on man, get real. Just because you think Roth can potentially make the switch doesn't mean he will. The 49ers just signed Justin Smith who plays exactly like Roth to be a DE in their 3-4 front.

I see your trying to get an point across on why we should take Jake Long but your attitude of "y'all are dumb we need Jake and not a OLB" makes no sense. All I've seen you do is talk down to people that don't want Jake Long and your constantly all over the place trying to talk us into wanting him.

This is the deepest OT class of the past 10 years. We can get a 10 year LT at the top (or even bottom if people slide) of round 2. There isn't that luxury with OLBs in this draft and Chris Long and Vernon Gholston are the two biggest defensive game changers in the draft.

Like I said, even if we sign Pace (which still has yet to happen). There is situations where we will need an OLB. Joey Porter and JT have 2 years in them max and Porter already sucks. Why would we pass on the best D players in the draft for a OT when we can get a similar OT in round 2?

Like I said before (which you ignored)

OLB-Calvin Pace, Joey Porter
ILB-Channing Crowder
ILB-Reggie Torbor
OLB-Chris Long/Vernon Gholston

That gets works for them now and Porter is likely gone after next season anyways once his cap number gets to a point where we can cut him. Trade JT for a 2nd and suddenly you have more youth and talented from our all important OLB spots and still numerous picks to address your OL and LT in round 2.

Your negatively towards Long and Gholston just gets annoying. We could definately use both of those guys and they would be welcome additions but all you do is nag and come out with excuses for us to take Jake Long because you like him.


nevermind.....

thebow305
03-01-2008, 11:39 AM
Bro you brought up an old article that I remember reading when Roth from before Roth was ever drafted and he hasn't been a LB since he was 18 years old for Christs sake.

Please, until someone with some real clout on the Dolphins comes out and says anything about Roth moving from DE, your just another person talking and speculating and it means nothing. Roth ahs been a DE all thru college and in all thru his Pro career. No reason to think a new coach is suddenly gonna make a change like this. You have to hear something from the coach to think this is gonna happen and do you really think there would be such speculation about us signing Pace and drafting Gholston/Long if we were moving Roth to OLB? Come on man, get real. Just because you think Roth can potentially make the switch doesn't mean he will. The 49ers just signed Justin Smith who plays exactly like Roth to be a DE in their 3-4 front.

I see your trying to get an point across on why we should take Jake Long but your attitude of "y'all are dumb we need Jake and not a OLB" makes no sense. All I've seen you do is talk down to people that don't want Jake Long and your constantly all over the place trying to talk us into wanting him.

This is the deepest OT class of the past 10 years. We can get a 10 year LT at the top (or even bottom if people slide) of round 2. There isn't that luxury with OLBs in this draft and Chris Long and Vernon Gholston are the two biggest defensive game changers in the draft.

Like I said, even if we sign Pace (which still has yet to happen). There is situations where we will need an OLB. Joey Porter and JT have 2 years in them max and Porter already sucks. Why would we pass on the best D players in the draft for a OT when we can get a similar OT in round 2?

Like I said before (which you ignored)

OLB-Calvin Pace, Joey Porter
ILB-Channing Crowder
ILB-Reggie Torbor
OLB-Chris Long/Vernon Gholston

That gets works for them now and Porter is likely gone after next season anyways once his cap number gets to a point where we can cut him. Trade JT for a 2nd and suddenly you have more youth and talented from our all important OLB spots and still numerous picks to address your OL and LT in round 2.

Your negatively towards Long and Gholston just gets annoying. We could definately use both of those guys and they would be welcome additions but all you do is nag and come out with excuses for us to take Jake Long because you like him.


I do agree with it I must say, I think taking Jake Long with the # 1 pick would be the absolute biggest waste of a pick. Now at number 3 I would be a little more willing about him, but he is not the number 1 player in this draft, not by a long shot. If we stay at 1, it HAS to be Chris Long, he is the best player in this draft. PERIOD!

If we make the trade with ATL, then it comes down to Vernon Gholston and Jake Long probably and then Jake becomes more realistic, although I still give the nod to Vernon because we can get an OT with very similar value at the top of round 2 or even the bottom of it, like you said Joey. It's for the reason you mentioned about the depth of the OT class and the lackthereof in the elite pass rushers of this draft, I feel it is absolutely imperative that we must land Vernon or Chris, and get a guy like Otah, Williams, or Nicks later. That would work so much better than Jake Long and someone like Quentin Groves, Marcus Howard, or Cliff Avril, who seem to be more project players to me with good athleticism that may not be ready to play for a couple of years. Plus, those OT's I named at better NFL prospects at LT than Jake Long anyway. Get over him already BBC, come on man.

Quagmire
03-01-2008, 03:07 PM
Guys, seriously, this discussion has gotten out of hand.

Some points:

First off, blue is right. There is no shot in hell that Taylor, Porter, Roth or Pace end up inside. NONE. Torbor might play some there, but that is it. Yes, Moses and Wright are on the roster, but I would not be counting on them at this time. Would that prevent me from taking C. Long or Gholston? Hell no.

Now, like many of you, I do not think Jake Long should be the #1 pick. However, I don't think he is Tony Mandarich, either. I am concerned (like many) that he is more of a RT. But, if the guy ends up being a 10 yr starter in this league at RT, it is not the worst thing in the world. Plus, you have to think that Sparano, Maser and Henning would work like hell to make sure he was successful at LT if drafted. There are definitely guys in this league making a lot of money at LT that have feet slower than Jake Long. If for some reason, it did not work, he goes to RT and is parked there for 10 yrs...

Obviously, I think most of us agree that the trade down is the best option. But, with that being unlikely at this point, my opinion is that you take the best player available. IMO, that is Gholston or McFadden. Do I feel that either will be the pick? No. I think it comes down to C.Long or Matt Ryan, with Jake Long now 3rd...

One argument against J. Long that has been pointed out is the tremendous depth at T in this draft. But, you may notice that not all of them are the true "LT" prospect. Many of them have the question mark about being potential G's or RT's. At the end of the day, you may want to take a guy later who will not cost as much and develop him to be the LT. (I happen to like D. Brown from VA tech as a potential 4th rd pick) The one thing is that with veteran LT at this point, the young guy has to play. So you want to be sure that he is able to protect whichever QB has to play.

The need is there at LT. You have to get somebody to play there.

Now, I can get on my soapbox and talk about the absolute need to trade Jason Taylor........:0)

Just remember, that at the end we all want to see this thing turned around..

thebow305
03-01-2008, 03:45 PM
Guys, seriously, this discussion has gotten out of hand.

Some points:

First off, blue is right. There is no shot in hell that Taylor, Porter, Roth or Pace end up inside. NONE. Torbor might play some there, but that is it. Yes, Moses and Wright are on the roster, but I would not be counting on them at this time. Would that prevent me from taking C. Long or Gholston? Hell no.

Now, like many of you, I do not think Jake Long should be the #1 pick. However, I don't think he is Tony Mandarich, either. I am concerned (like many) that he is more of a RT. But, if the guy ends up being a 10 yr starter in this league at RT, it is not the worst thing in the world. Plus, you have to think that Sparano, Maser and Henning would work like hell to make sure he was successful at LT if drafted. There are definitely guys in this league making a lot of money at LT that have feet slower than Jake Long. If for some reason, it did not work, he goes to RT and is parked there for 10 yrs...

Obviously, I think most of us agree that the trade down is the best option. But, with that being unlikely at this point, my opinion is that you take the best player available. IMO, that is Gholston or McFadden. Do I feel that either will be the pick? No. I think it comes down to C.Long or Matt Ryan, with Jake Long now 3rd...

One argument against J. Long that has been pointed out is the tremendous depth at T in this draft. But, you may notice that not all of them are the true "LT" prospect. Many of them have the question mark about being potential G's or RT's. At the end of the day, you may want to take a guy later who will not cost as much and develop him to be the LT. (I happen to like D. Brown from VA tech as a potential 4th rd pick) The one thing is that with veteran LT at this point, the young guy has to play. So you want to be sure that he is able to protect whichever QB has to play.

The need is there at LT. You have to get somebody to play there.

Now, I can get on my soapbox and talk about the absolute need to trade Jason Taylor........:0)

Just remember, that at the end we all want to see this thing turned around..


Wel, I'm glad you have final say on the personnel decisions in Miami.

You have no friggin idea if Taylor or Porter or Pace or Long would get kicked inside if they were all on the active roster for Week one of the NFL Season. My guess is, someone would. You have to get your best players on the field. And with Taylor being the most versatile, knowledgeable player on our roster, my guess would be him. Stop acting like you know what they will do and you are the say all end all to this conversation. Damn, I can't stand that... None of us know what will really happen, and until the season starts, nothing is for sure.

Quagmire
03-01-2008, 04:07 PM
Bow,

I know my stuff, but don't claim to be anything other than a fan. As for what I know, no chance any of the OLB's end up inside. I really wish people on this board would stop being babies when they are disagreed with...

thebow305
03-01-2008, 04:49 PM
Bow,

I know my stuff, but don't claim to be anything other than a fan. As for what I know, no chance any of the OLB's end up inside. I really wish people on this board would stop being babies when they are disagreed with...

No chance?? Wow, that's foolish...

Being babies, how about not being an arrogant know-it-all. You act like you have final say on everything when you really don't know ****...

Joeyjr09
03-01-2008, 05:11 PM
Bow,

I know my stuff, but don't claim to be anything other than a fan. As for what I know, no chance any of the OLB's end up inside. I really wish people on this board would stop being babies when they are disagreed with...

I don't recall anyone saying anything about an OLB ending up inside except for Bow with his Jason Taylor talk.

Fail to see how that's any worse then BBC saying Matt Roth is gonna move to OLB.

Outside of that I agree with most of your 1st post.

I would really be fine taking Chris Long at number 1, Carl Nick or if we get lucky a Chris Williams falls as the 1st pick of round 2.

I'd much much rather have a pairing of Chris Long and Carl Nicks then a pairing of Jake Long and Quentin Groves.

Not to mention, does anyone really believe Joey Porter is here after this season? Or that Jason Taylor will be here past his current contract? Even if we sign Pace (which is looking less and less likely by the second) we will need another OLB as soon as next season.

thebow305
03-01-2008, 05:28 PM
I don't recall anyone saying anything about an OLB ending up inside except for Bow with his Jason Taylor talk.

Fail to see how that's any worse then BBC saying Matt Roth is gonna move to OLB.

Outside of that I agree with most of your 1st post.

I would really be fine taking Chris Long at number 1, Carl Nick or if we get lucky a Chris Williams falls as the 1st pick of round 2.

I'd much much rather have a pairing of Chris Long and Carl Nicks then a pairing of Jake Long and Quentin Groves.

Not to mention, does anyone really believe Joey Porter is here after this season? Or that Jason Taylor will be here past his current contract? Even if we sign Pace (which is looking less and less likely by the second) we will need another OLB as soon as next season.

Agreed. It's not hard to see that which is why I'm confused as to why so many people have jumped off the C Long to Miami bandwagon so fast.

Quagmire
03-01-2008, 05:31 PM
I don't recall anyone saying anything about an OLB ending up inside except for Bow with his Jason Taylor talk.

Fail to see how that's any worse then BBC saying Matt Roth is gonna move to OLB.

Outside of that I agree with most of your 1st post.

I would really be fine taking Chris Long at number 1, Carl Nick or if we get lucky a Chris Williams falls as the 1st pick of round 2.

I'd much much rather have a pairing of Chris Long and Carl Nicks then a pairing of Jake Long and Quentin Groves.

Not to mention, does anyone really believe Joey Porter is here after this season? Or that Jason Taylor will be here past his current contract? Even if we sign Pace (which is looking less and less likely by the second) we will need another OLB as soon as next season.

Joe,

I appreciate you answering the post in a mature manner.

My original was not directed towards anything or anyone other than the fact that there are multiple options. Apparently disagreeing that an all-pro OLB/DE who has never played inside being moved inside when is he 34 yrs old caused some people to cry and get upset and make me an "arrogant know it all". I guess that means we can't express differing opinions. I just wanted to see the discussion continue without insults but some people apparently can't do that.

Anyway, back to football. I tend to think that the first set of tackles may come off the board very quickly in this draft. Obviously, Long will go top 5. Clady may go top 5, but at worst top 10. Otah appears to be between 10 and 20. I think Williams will also go in round 1.

I guess that means the 2nd tier T's are probably where Miami will be selecting from. If that means a Nicks or Anthony Collins, then so be it.

BTW, if it worked out to be Jake Long first with Quentin Groves at #32, I would be thrilled. I tend to think Groves will go a lot higher than people think.

Lets hope we can all continue these discussions normally going forward. It is nice to get some differing opinions and discuss them in a normal manner. Thanks again Joe.

draftguru151
03-01-2008, 05:58 PM
I don't recall anyone saying anything about an OLB ending up inside except for Bow with his Jason Taylor talk.

Fail to see how that's any worse then BBC saying Matt Roth is gonna move to OLB.

Outside of that I agree with most of your 1st post.

I would really be fine taking Chris Long at number 1, Carl Nick or if we get lucky a Chris Williams falls as the 1st pick of round 2.

I'd much much rather have a pairing of Chris Long and Carl Nicks then a pairing of Jake Long and Quentin Groves.

Not to mention, does anyone really believe Joey Porter is here after this season? Or that Jason Taylor will be here past his current contract? Even if we sign Pace (which is looking less and less likely by the second) we will need another OLB as soon as next season.

The news of him signing should be coming soon.

Joeyjr09
03-01-2008, 06:04 PM
The news of him signing should be coming soon.

No offense bro. but I've seen you post that a couple times today and yet still nothing. All day yesterday we were waiting on him to sign. And nothing. Not to cut you down or anything but I'm not buying into him signing here until I see it reported by the Dolphins site.

Too many false reports and wierd info coming out on him. Not to mention, if the Dolphins really did offer him a Joey Porter deal, do you really think the guy would say "No thanks, I'm gonna visit your number 1 rivals 1st." I have a hard time beliving Pace wouldn't jump all over that much money right now. And if he didn't, he is too stupid for me to want him on the Dolphins, lol.

In all seriousness, I really do want him here and I hope we can sign him but I hope it for something like 4 years, 25 million dollars and 10 million guaranteed instead of that crazy Joey Porter deal.

draftguru151
03-01-2008, 06:07 PM
He didn't visit New York, he was here today signing the contract. I have no idea why it isn't being reported yet.

Joeyjr09
03-01-2008, 06:09 PM
He didn't visit New York, he was here today signing the contract. I have no idea why it isn't being reported yet.

I've seen you say this a couple times but still the reports are coming out that he's in New York.

Where are you getting your info from that makes you so confident when everyone else says he's in NY.

draftguru151
03-01-2008, 06:11 PM
Considering someone I'm talking saw him today, I doubt he is New York.

Joeyjr09
03-01-2008, 06:14 PM
Considering someone I'm talking saw him today, I doubt he is New York.

And whoever you talked to couldn't have been mistake and saw another person that looked like him?

Not to mention, he was in Miami this morning. He left to NY later in the day.

thebow305
03-01-2008, 06:39 PM
Joe,

I appreciate you answering the post in a mature manner.

My original was not directed towards anything or anyone other than the fact that there are multiple options. Apparently disagreeing that an all-pro OLB/DE who has never played inside being moved inside when is he 34 yrs old caused some people to cry and get upset and make me an "arrogant know it all". I guess that means we can't express differing opinions. I just wanted to see the discussion continue without insults but some people apparently can't do that.

Anyway, back to football. I tend to think that the first set of tackles may come off the board very quickly in this draft. Obviously, Long will go top 5. Clady may go top 5, but at worst top 10. Otah appears to be between 10 and 20. I think Williams will also go in round 1.

I guess that means the 2nd tier T's are probably where Miami will be selecting from. If that means a Nicks or Anthony Collins, then so be it.

BTW, if it worked out to be Jake Long first with Quentin Groves at #32, I would be thrilled. I tend to think Groves will go a lot higher than people think.

Lets hope we can all continue these discussions normally going forward. It is nice to get some differing opinions and discuss them in a normal manner. Thanks again Joe.

And Adalius moving inside was probally totally out of the question until they actually DID IT! He's 6'3, 270+ pounds! Also, putting Justin Tuck at DT seemed like a crazy idea... UNTIL THEY DID IT! These are just two cases of not giving a damn and just getting the best players on the field at the same time. Even if the position doesn't fit to a T, great players will make it work and thrive in any situation. It's is a difference of opinion, but it's also foolish to openly state that there is NO CHANCE AT ALL of it happening. JT is just as versatile and athletic, plus more seaoned than Adalius Thomas, so if that's what's best for the team, I doubt JT would be totally against it. I'm just saying, getting the best players on the field at once is the way to go, and if that's how we do it, so be it. If we have Chris Long, Joey Porter, Jason Taylor and Calvin Pace all on the outside, and Channing Crowder, Reggie Torbor, and Ian Gold (not sure if we really signed him) as our only viable inside options, I'll take my chances with JT in the middle over guys like Gold or Torbor, who are less experienced and smaller threats to make big plays. Then have Pace on one side of him, and our # 1 pick Chris Long or Joey Porter on the other side. Whether you think it will work or be done or not, It's my opinion that this front 7 would be pretty nasty:

DE: Vonnie Holliday
NT: Jason Ferguson
DE: Randy Starks
OLB: Chris Long
ILB: Jason Taylor
ILB: Channing Crowder
OLB: Calvin Pace

Joeyjr09
03-01-2008, 06:47 PM
And Adalius moving inside was probally totally out of the question until they actually DID IT! He's 6'3, 270+ pounds! Also, putting Justin Tuck at DT seemed like a crazy idea... UNTIL THEY DID IT! These are just two cases of not giving a damn and just getting the best players on the field at the same time. Even if the position doesn't fit to a T, great players will make it work and thrive in any situation. It's is a difference of opinion, but it's also foolish to openly state that there is NO CHANCE AT ALL of it happening. JT is just as versatile and athletic, plus more seaoned than Adalius Thomas, so if that's what's best for the team, I doubt JT would be totally against it. I'm just saying, getting the best players on the field at once is the way to go, and if that's how we do it, so be it. If we have Chris Long, Joey Porter, Jason Taylor and Calvin Pace all on the outside, and Channing Crowder, Reggie Torbor, and Ian Gold (not sure if we really signed him) as our only viable inside options, I'll take my chances with JT in the middle over guys like Gold or Torbor, who are less experienced and smaller threats to make big plays. Then have Pace on one side of him, and our # 1 pick Chris Long or Joey Porter on the other side. Whether you think it will work or be done or not, It's my opinion that this front 7 would be pretty nasty:

DE: Vonnie Holliday
NT: Jason Ferguson
DE: Randy Starks
OLB: Chris Long
ILB: Jason Taylor
ILB: Channing Crowder
OLB: Calvin Pace

-We didn't sign Ian Gold. False report by ESPN.
-Randy Starks likely aint gonna be starting. He is a situational role player with us.
-While anything can happen and JT certain has the talent to play ILB, the likely hood of it happening is extremely small and not a realistic thought at this point.

It's jsut as bad as BBC saying Matt Roth was being moved to OLB.

thebow305
03-01-2008, 07:14 PM
-We didn't sign Ian Gold. False report by ESPN.
-Randy Starks likely aint gonna be starting. He is a situational role player with us.
-While anything can happen and JT certain has the talent to play ILB, the likely hood of it happening is extremely small and not a realistic thought at this point.

It's jsut as bad as BBC saying Matt Roth was being moved to OLB.

If it gets our best players on the field you can't rule it out completely though. I agree the chances of it happening are not very good, but I also believe the chances of all of them being on the roster together on Opening Day are slim as well. I saw a rumor about Minnesota offering a 2nd and 3rd for JT. I hope it's true, i would take that in a second. I would be sad to see him go, but it's going to happen eventually, might as well get something good for him now while his value is still relatively high. That would pave the way for Chris Long at # 1 I hope! :)

draftguru151
03-04-2008, 07:34 PM
Didn't see this posted yet.

I think you shouldn't make too much of this, but Bill Parcells, czar of the Dolphins, holder of the first pick in the draft, called Boston College coach Jeff Jagodzinski the other day and requested video of every one of quarterback Matt Ryan's 654 passes last fall. I still say Ryan at No. 3, to Atlanta, makes the most sense.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/peter_king/03/02/cleveland/4.html

Quagmire
03-05-2008, 10:06 AM
Guru,

I think whether or not they are interested in Ryan, they definitely have to do their homework and at least make it appear that they are. If they like him to consider him a top level QB, then you take him. If not, hopefully the Falcons can be enticed to switch spots and you pick up an extra draft pick or two. To be 100% honest, if Atlanta would bite, I would do drop for their 3rd and 5th rounders. I know that is a big trade chart loser, but you can still get one of the Longs with that pick, you save the bonus $$ and you have yet another player or 2 for the rebuilding process.......

BigBlueCrew56
03-05-2008, 01:02 PM
Does Atlanta bite though???? Hard to say. With all this info leaking out about us watching tape about Ryan and Mock drafts having Ryan makes me feel confident that Ryan will not be the pick and all this is just a big smoke screen into scaring a team like Atlanta into giving us extra pics. I dont know if they fall for it though unless Arthur Blank truly has mandated to this GM that he must get Ryan at all cost. With the signing of McCown and Beck still in the fold I find it hard to beleive that they will spend the #1 pick on Ryan. A player who I beleive doesnt even come close to a #1 pick type grade. I'd prefer to take Joe Flacco in the second. Also I know this may be beating a dead horse and I am the first to know how many of you oppose of this happening but Jake Long still is a real possibility with the first pick. Especially since they really havent addressed the offensive line via free agency other then picking up Smiley. We still have a gaping hole at Tackle and we can certainly use about 2 or 3 more lineman for depth. As it stands now our Line looks like this


LT ????? Or Vernon Carey
LG ?????????????
C Samson Satele
RG Justin Smiley
RT Vernon Carey or ????????


Lots of holes needless to say.

Quagmire
03-05-2008, 01:17 PM
Does Atlanta bite though???? Hard to say. With all this info leaking out about us watching tape about Ryan and Mock drafts having Ryan makes me feel confident that Ryan will not be the pick and all this is just a big smoke screen into scaring a team like Atlanta into giving us extra pics. I dont know if they fall for it though unless Arthur Blank truly has mandated to this GM that he must get Ryan at all cost. With the signing of McCown and Beck still in the fold I find it hard to beleive that they will spend the #1 pick on Ryan. A player who I beleive doesnt even come close to a #1 pick type grade. I'd prefer to take Joe Flacco in the second. Also I know this may be beating a dead horse and I am the first to know how many of you oppose of this happening but Jake Long still is a real possibility with the first pick. Especially since they really havent addressed the offensive line via free agency other then picking up Smiley. We still have a gaping hole at Tackle and we can certainly use about 2 or 3 more lineman for depth. As it stands now our Line looks like this


LT ????? Or Vernon Carey
LG ?????????????
C Samson Satele
RG Justin Smiley
RT Vernon Carey or ????????


Lots of holes needless to say.

Blue,

If I had to make a bet, I would bet against the trade down even though everyone knows that is their preference. I was just hoping out loud with my earlier post.
You are correct that J. Long has to be in the picture at this point as a possible selection. I think it looks right now like the pick's last name would be Long or Ryan. Not sure if its Jake or Chris, yet. I just really hope they can get out of there and make a move down with Atlanta.......

BTW, I think Flacco goes in round 1. There is too much hype for this guy right now and I don't think he makes it to our pick in round 2. I think Henne is a more realistic possibility at this point in round 2. Or maybe they decide to just get one later on in the draft (Ainge, O'Connell) and let Beck and McCown hammer it out for the job.....

Joeyjr09
03-05-2008, 02:09 PM
BTW, I think Flacco goes in round 1. There is too much hype for this guy right now and I don't think he makes it to our pick in round 2.

I can't remember the last time I saw a Division 1-AA QB go in round 1. I know he has the best physical talent in the draft and I know theres huge amount of hype with him but still he didn't play D1 ball and transferred from Pitt after lossing the job to Tyler Palko. Tyler freaking Palko, lol.

I love Flacco. I want him here. I think he's has far and away the most upside of any QB in the draft, no questions asked. But You'll be hard pressed to find a team gamble on a D1-AA QB in round 1.

BigBlueCrew56
03-05-2008, 02:57 PM
I can't remember the last time I saw a Division 1-AA QB go in round 1. I know he has the best physical talent in the draft and I know theres huge amount of hype with him but still he didn't play D1 ball and transferred from Pitt after lossing the job to Tyler Palko. Tyler freaking Palko, lol.

I love Flacco. I want him here. I think he's has far and away the most upside of any QB in the draft, no questions asked. But You'll be hard pressed to find a team gamble on a D1-AA QB in round 1.



I agree Joey in that I would love for Flacco to be on this team. I dont think he is going to be a 1st round pick either. He should be there with the top selection in the second round which technically is a late 1st round pick. Dont see too many teams jumping on a QB in the backend of the 1st especially with Brian Brohm looming ahead of him. For all we know Brohm could be sitting there when we pick again especially since the the Bucs just grabbed there 6th QB on the roster in Griese. Hard for me to envision them selecting another QB. Brohm does have a slim shot with ending up with the Vikes. I feel pretty good non the less that Flacco will be there in the second for us. He has all the Parcells intangibles and is a New Jersey guy to boot like Bill.

BigBlueCrew56
03-05-2008, 03:03 PM
Falcons just released Joey H. That team is screaming for Matt Ryan.

Quagmire
03-05-2008, 03:29 PM
Joe,

I am not saying that Flacco is deserving of being a #1 pick, but his hype machine is definitely on. I just think that a team picking low in round 1 may decide to bite or even more lkely, a team pulls a Brady Quinn and jumps up from rd 2 into low round 1 to get him. If all of us are already speculating on him for us in round 2, I think other teams may be thinking the same thing. I hope you are right, but as of now, I think he may go higher than people think...

draftguru151
03-05-2008, 03:31 PM
It might not necessarily be Flacco, but I expect a team to trade into the late first for one of the QBs (Henne, Brohm, Flacco). Flacco definitely has a chance at late round 1.

BigBlueCrew56
03-05-2008, 03:44 PM
Either way you slice it.....Brohm,Flacco, or Henne will be there when we pick again.

Joeyjr09
03-05-2008, 03:46 PM
It might not necessarily be Flacco, but I expect a team to trade into the late first for one of the QBs (Henne, Brohm, Flacco). Flacco definitely has a chance at late round 1.

I don't see anyone trading into late round 1. I think your gonna see alot of teams stand pat actually. Henne, Brohm, Flacco, and maybe even Booty are pegged for that 25-50 range.

Like last year where there were a run on QBs that saw Kolb, Beck, and Stanton come off the board in a quick streak. I think you'll see the same thing this season.

Teams aren't gonna want to trade up and give up extra picks because the draft is deep in 2nd round graded QBs. They are gonna sit and wait until the 1st one goes and then you'll see the dominoes fall and movement will start as teams try to get the guy they want. Seeing as we are the 1st pick of the 2nd, we are likely to have our choice of the QB we want and you'll see the rest come off the board quickly after as teams try to get the QB that they feel the most strongly about.

BigBlueCrew56
03-05-2008, 04:12 PM
I am really concerned about the offensive line right now. If we are targeting a QB with the 1st pick in the second round who do you think will be left in the bottom end of the 2nd or third for offensive lineman? As much as like C. Long and Gholston dont you think we should focus on the ever so important offensive line sooner rather then later???? Then we also need help at CB and TE. IMO I feel that getting a 3-4 OLB at this time would be somewhat of a luxary. I know we have aging players in Taylor and Porter but dont you feel like we could wait another year to look at a young 3-4 OLB?


I know I have been abnoxiously pressing for us to take Jake Long and that is for the simple fact that I feel that the offensive line is so important to our success in allowing our QB's to succeed. I dont agree that Jake Long is a #1 overall selection in the draft but is Matt Ryan??? Chris Long I beleive is a solid #1 pick but he just seems to be a luxary at this point with all the holes we still have on the offensive line.


If we select Chris Long at #1 then what are we looking at in the 2nd

1. DE/OLB Chris Long
2A QB Joe Flacco
2B ?????????????????


* This scenario leaves us clamoring for an offensive lineman in the bottom of the second round. We are going to have to grab Flacco sooner rather then later. He are the projections from this very deep OL class.

1. Jake Long (1-5)
2. Ryan Clady (5-20)
3. Jeff Otah (15-25)
4. Chris Williams (15-Early Second Rd)
5. Gosder Cherilus (25-Early second)
5. Carl Nicks (Early to mid 2nd round)
6. Sam Baker (Mid to late second)
7. Anthony Collins (Mid to late second)

Many out there have stated that offensive line is a real deep position but being that it's deep I think it just means more value in the early second. If we select C.Long and grab a Cherilus,Nicks, or Williams with our early second then we put outselves out of the Flacco-Henne running late in the second. If we go C.Long-Flacco then a prospect such as Collins and Baker are there in the late second. Can we really say that both of these prospects are ready to step in day one????? I am not really sure. One thing that looks very possible is that up to 5 OL can go in the 1st round and once what was thought to be a very deep OL class suddenly isnt so deep anymore.

Joeyjr09
03-05-2008, 04:24 PM
I am really concerned about the offensive line right now. If we are targeting a QB with the 1st pick in the second round who do you think will be left in the bottom end of the 2nd or third for offensive lineman? As much as like C. Long and Gholston dont you think we should focus on the ever so important offensive line sooner rather then later???? Then we also need help at CB and TE. IMO I feel that getting a 3-4 OLB at this time would be somewhat of a luxary. I know we have aging players in Taylor and Porter but dont you feel like we could wait another year to look at a young 3-4 OLB?


I know I have been abnoxiously pressing for us to take Jake Long and that is for the simple fact that I feel that the offensive line is so important to our success in allowing our QB's to succeed. I dont agree that Jake Long is a #1 overall selection in the draft but is Matt Ryan??? Chris Long I beleive is a solid #1 pick but he just seems to be a luxary at this point with all the holes we still have on the offensive line.


If we select Chris Long at #1 then what are we looking at in the 2nd

1. DE/OLB Chris Long
2A QB Joe Flacco
2B ?????????????????


* This scenario leaves us clamoring for an offensive lineman in the bottom of the second round. We are going to have to grab Flacco sooner rather then later. He are the projections from this very deep OL class.

1. Jake Long (1-5)
2. Ryan Clady (5-20)
3. Jeff Otah (15-25)
4. Chris Williams (15-Early Second Rd)
5. Gosder Cherilus (25-Early second)
5. Carl Nicks (Early to mid 2nd round)
6. Sam Baker (Mid to late second)
7. Anthony Collins (Mid to late second)

Many out there have stated that offensive line is a real deep position but being that it's deep I think it just means more value in the early second. If we select C.Long and grab a Cherilus,Nicks, or Williams with our early second then we put outselves out of the Flacco-Henne running late in the second. If we go C.Long-Flacco then a prospect such as Collins and Baker are there in the late second. Can we really say that both of these prospects are ready to step in day one????? I am not really sure. One thing that looks very possible is that up to 5 OL can go in the 1st round and once what was thought to be a very deep OL class suddenly isnt so deep anymore.

You keep saying OLB is a luxuary. Dude, when you are picking number 1 overall. You take the best player. Not the biggest need. If you are picking at number 1 you need to hit a homerun and get it right or you will be set back for a long time. Other then McFadden who likely isn't even going top 5, Chris Long is the best prospect in the nation and I know you don't wanna believe it but OLB is a big need right now.

I'm not at all worried about the OL. I'm more worried about the D. Our D was the worst in the NFL last year. It was ugly. Our OL was solid and we have great OL coaches on the team. If worst comes to worst they could keep Carey at LT, resign Lewinski at LG and find any ole RT (basically what Shelton was) and have exactly the same line as last season which held it's own. Defense is much, much more of a need the OL right now.

Nicks and Collins are both gonna go right around our lower 2nd pick and you could see another guy like Baker slide if your lucky. Not to mention, Hills, Richardson and others will all be around in round 3 as well.

We could easily go C.Long, Flacco, Collins with our 1st 3 picks and be fine. Remember we got Satele at around the same spot as our low 2nd last season and this draft is way deeper in OL then last year's. We will get a very OL in the 2nd round this season. Don't worry.

BigBlueCrew56
03-05-2008, 05:45 PM
Joey.... I am not saying that 3-4 OLB isnt a big need for us but looking at the roster we kinda have the position filled atleast for another year barring Taylor getting traded which looks almost nil right now. I love Chris Long dont get me wrong. Probably one of my favorite players to watch. Love gambling on college football so I really really focus on everything that happens in these games. Chris Long put on such a great performance vs Texas Tech in that bowl game that It solidified how great a player this guy is. I guess I keep on looking at the depth chart and envision Jake Long and Vernon Carey as bookend tackles for the next 10-12 years. I have no allegiance to Jake Long other then I feel he could catapult our offensive line into being one of the best and youngest in the game. I know Scott Wright has him as his #2 rated player in the draft but you seem to be real down on him. Todd McShay in a recent interview on Draftcentral.com stated that Matt Ryan and Jake Long seem to be the odds on favorites to be the #1 pick now. I am really torn between these two players because on one end I think you are spot on in getting a player like Chris Long but in my mind getting a player like Jake Long is just as important if not greater because you are going to have a young QB behind center and your team depth at offensive line is rather bare. I was just thinking that maybe if we go offensive line this year and get that out of the way then let Taylor and Porter play out this year and then next year we focus on getting a 3-4 OLB. I guess the argument can be made either way. I'll be happy with either Long when it comes down to it.

Check this out Joey

http://michigan.scout.com/2/732352.html

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/columns/story?id=3258732

Joeyjr09
03-05-2008, 07:27 PM
Joey.... I am not saying that 3-4 OLB isnt a big need for us but looking at the roster we kinda have the position filled atleast for another year barring Taylor getting traded which looks almost nil right now. I love Chris Long dont get me wrong. Probably one of my favorite players to watch. Love gambling on college football so I really really focus on everything that happens in these games. Chris Long put on such a great performance vs Texas Tech in that bowl game that It solidified how great a player this guy is. I guess I keep on looking at the depth chart and envision Jake Long and Vernon Carey as bookend tackles for the next 10-12 years. I have no allegiance to Jake Long other then I feel he could catapult our offensive line into being one of the best and youngest in the game. I know Scott Wright has him as his #2 rated player in the draft but you seem to be real down on him. Todd McShay in a recent interview on Draftcentral.com stated that Matt Ryan and Jake Long seem to be the odds on favorites to be the #1 pick now. I am really torn between these two players because on one end I think you are spot on in getting a player like Chris Long but in my mind getting a player like Jake Long is just as important if not greater because you are going to have a young QB behind center and your team depth at offensive line is rather bare. I was just thinking that maybe if we go offensive line this year and get that out of the way then let Taylor and Porter play out this year and then next year we focus on getting a 3-4 OLB. I guess the argument can be made either way. I'll be happy with either Long when it comes down to it.

Check this out Joey

http://michigan.scout.com/2/732352.html

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/columns/story?id=3258732

Read both those articles but I just don't agree with you. Despite what everyone says about Jake Long. People still question whether he will be an elite LT in the NFL. Drafting Jake Long and having him be a RT for the next 10-12 year will be a failure for our team. You cannot spend that kinda money and investment and have him end up at RT. It's just too big a risk. If he ends up at RT and Carey stays at LT we will have done nothing this offseason because we will still be getting medicore play from our LT and the reason you look at a OT in the top 5 is because you want a top tier LT, not a RT.

Way, way too many question if he can play LT at the next level for me to be comfortable with that pick. He'd have to be Joe Thomas for it to be a good pick and scouts have already come out and said, he's not Joe Thomas, he's worse. It's too much of a hit or miss with Jake Long and he's basically just a bigger better Vernon Carey IMO. He will look like just another guy at LT but he will dominate at RT and that is NOT what the Dolphins need.

We need to hit a homerun with this pick. Jake Long is not a homerun, it's a prayer that he learns how to pass protect. Chris Long on the other hand is a playmaker. He is a game changer. He can take over a game and swing the momentum in his teams favor. He is versitle. He can be looked at for different spots on the D where as if Jake fails at LT, he is a bust. If Chris struggles at OLB he can move down to DE or even as a last resort be moved to ILB where he is enough of a run thumper to maybe make that move. He just opens up the defense in so many ways that Jake Long cannot impact the offense.

Not to mention, if you go read the articles you posted. They talk about Jake Long being the safe pick. We don't need to be making a safe pick. We need to make the smart pick and that would be Chris Long.

You can find OTs in round 2. There are millions of them out there this season and chances are the OTs you find in round 2 will look just as good playing LT as Jake Long because the round 2 OTs are better pass protectors that Jake Long.

BigBlueCrew56
03-05-2008, 08:26 PM
Very Very good defense Joey. Wish the draft was freakin tomorrow already. Anticipation is killin me. You gotta remember too that when you say you disagree with me you are disagreeing with what these so called experts are saying because I am basically regurgitating what I hear and feel might be good information on what way we are leaning with the pick. Most of them dont even have Chris Long going to us anymore with Matt Ryan being the favorite for some awful reason.

Joeyjr09
03-05-2008, 08:46 PM
Very Very good defense Joey. Wish the draft was freakin tomorrow already. Anticipation is killin me. You gotta remember too that when you say you disagree with me you are disagreeing what these so called experts are saying because I am basically regurgitating what I hear and feel might be good information on what way we are leaning with the pick.

Yea but these so called experts are just spouting out opinions in this case. They are giving their logic behind why Jake Long should be number 1 and Jake Long is the hot topic right now because he tested well at the combine, it happens with someone every year. This year it's Jake Long. He's the hot property right now and he's the one people wanna talk about right about.

If someone took the time to write about Chris Long, they could make a it sound like he is the logical pick for Miami as well and that Jake Long isn't even an option. It's all a matter of opinion at this point with the writers because the truth is that no one really knows. Look at the small frenzy that happened when Parcells requested the video on Matt Ryan. The writers are just searching for anything they can get their hands on and right now what they got are the outstanding tests numbers for Jake Long at the combine so he is what they are gonna write about.

Convential wisdom still say Chris Long. Even if you step back and pretend you know nothing about the Dolphins, there's still the fact that Parcells gets absolute hard ons for DE/OLB hybrids, he has alot of respect for Howie Long and he taugh Al Groh and respects his opinion and Al Groh was Chris Longs coach at Virginia.

Just oo much points to Chris Long at this point and it makes too much sense for us right now for it not to happen.

BigBlueCrew56
03-05-2008, 08:59 PM
Jake Long Interview at the Combine
Posted by: DolphinSam (IP Logged)
Date: February 22, 2008 10:46AM


Here's an interview with Jake:

[blogs.sun-sentinel.com]


"Have you talked to the Dolphins? How would you feel about playing for them?"

A: "It would be an honor. I haven't talked to them yet. I've had some informal meetings, nothing formal. It would be a great honor."


He said he loves playing LT and he's actually left-handed so it feels natural to him. He patterns his game after Matt Light and admires his technique. He also talked about the Gholston sack that everyone makes such a big deal of. And no, he didn't give up 3 sacks, he gave up just one. He said this:

"I gave up one sack this year. I've given up two in my career. This year it was Vernon Gholston at Ohio State. I take it personally. I wanted to make sure that I was perfect and not let up a sack but Vernon is a great player and he had a good moveon me and I let it up."

Jake did admit that he has to improve to handle the faster NFL Defensive ends, but I have no doubt he can do that. We'll pass on him and someone else is going to get a mammoth LT that shows leadership on the field, makes few mistakes and is a great run blocker.

BigBlueCrew56
03-05-2008, 09:03 PM
Yeah Chris Long does make a sh*t load of sense. Football ties,Al Groh, etc etc. Just a ton of hype going towards Jake Long and Matt Ryan you are correct. You just cant discredit Jake Long being the pic though. I really beleive it's about a 60-40 proposition at this point with Chris having the slight lead as Miami possibly looking to add more offensive lineman via free agency but the same can be said for them looking to add more to the defense such as Blackstock.

thebow305
03-05-2008, 11:56 PM
You keep saying OLB is a luxuary. Dude, when you are picking number 1 overall. You take the best player. Not the biggest need. If you are picking at number 1 you need to hit a homerun and get it right or you will be set back for a long time. Other then McFadden who likely isn't even going top 5, Chris Long is the best prospect in the nation and I know you don't wanna believe it but OLB is a big need right now.

I'm not at all worried about the OL. I'm more worried about the D. Our D was the worst in the NFL last year. It was ugly. Our OL was solid and we have great OL coaches on the team. If worst comes to worst they could keep Carey at LT, resign Lewinski at LG and find any ole RT (basically what Shelton was) and have exactly the same line as last season which held it's own. Defense is much, much more of a need the OL right now.

Nicks and Collins are both gonna go right around our lower 2nd pick and you could see another guy like Baker slide if your lucky. Not to mention, Hills, Richardson and others will all be around in round 3 as well.

We could easily go C.Long, Flacco, Collins with our 1st 3 picks and be fine. Remember we got Satele at around the same spot as our low 2nd last season and this draft is way deeper in OL then last year's. We will get a very OL in the 2nd round this season. Don't worry.

WOW.... this doesnt happen very often, but I agree COMPLETELY with EVERYTHING you said here.

I'm also glad you mentioned some of the names of some OT's that will be available later in the draft that we could focus on.

One guy that I absolutely am enamored with right now is Barry Richardson from Clemson. This guy will most likely be available in the 3rd, possibly even the 4th round. He could be our answer at LT and is a mountain of a man at 6'7" 330 lbs. He seems to be the Flozell Adams-type, huge, mauling OT that Parcells and Sparano covet. IMO, he could be this year's version of Marcus McNeill. It still haunts me to this day that we passed on him in the first in favor of Jason Allen. As you know, he went on to make the Pro Bowl in his rookie season leading the way for LT. I was VERY high on MM before the 06 draft, largely in part due to his efforts in leading the way for our own Ronnie Brown and Cadillac Williams, two top 5 picks at RB the previous year. Richardson seems to be that same type of big, mauling OT with long arms and big time potential. He has lead the way for two very good backs the last couple of years in the ACC with James Davis and CJ Spiller. Trust me, these guys don't rack up these yards on their own, he has a HUGE part in their success. Getting someone like him in the 3rd or 4th round would enable us to take the BPA at #1 in Chris Long, while also addressing needs at CB and QB in the 2nd round with Flacco (32), and possibly someone like Antoine Cason or Patrick Lee later in the 2nd (58). Then in the 4th, grab a playmaking TE like Carlson, Kellen Davis, or Jermichael Finley, whomever is available at that spot. Then add an OG like McDuffie (BR's teammate at Clemson) or Robert Felton from Arkansas to compete for that LG spot along with Mormino, who I've heard they are high on for next year and seems to be in the plans at least for now. That would leave us with a impressive draft class, addressing all of our biggest needs successfully for now:

1) Chris Long
2a) Joe Flacco
2b) Antoine Cason
3) Barry Richardson
4) Jermichael Finley
6) Chris McDuffie
7) King Dunlap/Amarri Jackson (OT project or WR project here seems like an ok pick, not really sure about this one though.)

I would be very pleased with that draft and based on that, or offensive line opening the season would turn out looking something like this:

LT: Barry Richardson
LG: Drew Mormino
C: Samson Satele
RG: Justin Smiley
RT: Vernon Carey

Yes it looks very young and unproven, but like Joeyjr pointed out, Sparano is a very good line coach and will have his hand in everything this group does. This would give him the BIG offensive line that he covets and a very talented one at that. It could be the best we've had in time and I wouldn't be concerned at all if we opened the season looking like that. That should alleviate some concerns you have about Our offensive line going into the draft BigBlueCrew, if it did, in deed, turn out that way.

Let me know what you guys think about this.

BigBlueCrew56
03-06-2008, 06:56 AM
Sounds good but I really would be hoping we could get the TE out of Tennessee Brad Cottam who is a monster within himself and has speed to go along with his massive frame around the 4th round. I too like the size of Barry Richardson. Going to do some research on him. Is he fast enough for LT??? I am glad we could actually have a good conversation on what our opinions are without calling each other out. It was my bad that I came off as arrogant in my previous post in regards too Jake Long only because I was jumping on the bandwagon. I am not going to come off and say that I am some type of expert here. I am just a fan who does a ton of research and tries to report it back to the homebase. I guess I got a bit carried away defending the expert opinion. We'll see how this all shapes up in the next coming week. I can tell you that I will defintely be at the Dolphins draft party this year.

BigBlueCrew56
03-06-2008, 07:06 AM
Here goes an article from the Sentinel that we are targeting all of the second tier QB's and how management has already told McCown that he will be competing with John Beck to be the starter. I am starting to feel a bit better hearing news like this because I want Matt Ryan out of the equation all together. What we need now is a solid young 3rd string QB (Flacco,Henne,or Woodson) to develop just in case Beck doesnt pan out. I do still have high hopes for Beck though.


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/football/pro/dolphins/sfl-flspdol06sbmar06,0,3660114.story

Joeyjr09
03-06-2008, 07:45 AM
"Have you talked to the Dolphins? How would you feel about playing for them?"

A: "It would be an honor. I haven't talked to them yet. I've had some informal meetings, nothing formal. It would be a great honor."


See what I was saying. The supposed experts are writing their information based solely on their own personal opinion. They have nothing to backup what they are saying as Jake himself says he hasn't really met with the Dolphins outside of some meet and greet stuff that all prospects do.

What the experts are saying now has nothing to do with the Dolphins interest in Jake Long but in their own interest in Jake Long and their desire to write about him.

Quagmire
03-06-2008, 07:50 AM
Blue,

You did not come off as arrogant. (According to one person, I did...) Nothing to apologize for. Others can be too sensitive sometimes.

As for this whole thing, I happen to be in the majority about wanting the defensive player early and looking for the OT later. But, unlike some others, I am not a fan of Barry Richardson. Read the reports on this guy. "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane" Not the kind of thing I want from my LT. Coaching or not. I think in the 3rd or 4th round, you can get better players, (Duane Brown from VA Tech) to play LT or even some RT type guys (Heath Benedict, John Greco) and you can keep Carey at LT.

I still believe Flacco will be gone by the #32 pick. Call it an early prediction...

thebow305
03-06-2008, 09:21 AM
Blue,

You did not come off as arrogant. (According to one person, I did...) Nothing to apologize for. Others can be too sensitive sometimes.

As for this whole thing, I happen to be in the majority about wanting the defensive player early and looking for the OT later. But, unlike some others, I am not a fan of Barry Richardson. Read the reports on this guy. "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane" Not the kind of thing I want from my LT. Coaching or not. I think in the 3rd or 4th round, you can get better players, (Duane Brown from VA Tech) to play LT or even some RT type guys (Heath Benedict, John Greco) and you can keep Carey at LT.

I still believe Flacco will be gone by the #32 pick. Call it an early prediction...


ok, well, Heath Benedict seems like another likely option around the 4th round. Call me crazy, but I would much rather have a monster OT like Richardson with 4 year's starting experience against top D1 competition, rather than a guy from Newberry. Besides, most of the weaknesses and knocks against BR stem from his inconsistency and lack of aggressiveness. Both of these things are extremely coachable, especially with the great motivators in Sparano and Parcells. Sparano is a tough minded coach who will get the most out of these guys, and if he can "unleash the beast" in this guy Richardson, he will be a MONSTER. You also have to love Scott's comment stating that once he locks on to the defender, the battle is over. He also mentions that he is a great pass protector, and judging on how successfull the Clemson running game has been in recent years with Spiller and Davis, he must be pretty good there as well, and he is because I have watched him on quite a few occasions these past 2 years. Also, considering that, before the season, he was in the first round of almost every mock draft on the net, so the ability is there, he just needs the motivation, and with that he could be the guy for us. I would love to have him as a Miami Dolphin, that's for sure.

draftguru151
03-06-2008, 10:45 AM
Aggressiveness and finishing blocks isn't something that you coach, a guy either has that or doesn't. Could he be motivated to play better and more consistent? Sure, but he isn't going to become this nasty guy over night. The d1/Newberry argument is terrible.

Quagmire
03-06-2008, 11:46 AM
Guru,

Could not agree more. With the OL, I would take a guy with a little less talent and lot more drive rather than vice versa. If you told me we were taking this guy in rd 6 or 7, then I would have no problem taking a shot. But, no way I take him earlier. I would rather pick some guys who I know will be fighting on every play in the round 3 to 4 area....

BigBlueCrew56
03-06-2008, 03:42 PM
The ideal Parcells lineman in the second round has got to be Carl Nicks. At 6'5
330 he is the real deal. Just dont know if he will be sitting there in the back end of the 2nd round. Heath Benedict is also an option but where the hell is Newberry college and why wasnt this guy on atleast some type of division 1 program.

BigBlueCrew56
03-06-2008, 03:44 PM
Ugggh nevermind it looks like this guy is dumb. Couldnt get the grades to stay at Tennessee.

thebow305
03-06-2008, 04:00 PM
Aggressiveness and finishing blocks isn't something that you coach, a guy either has that or doesn't. Could he be motivated to play better and more consistent? Sure, but he isn't going to become this nasty guy over night. The d1/Newberry argument is terrible.

It just brings me to question how many D2 OT's have been successful in the NFL. I would much rather have the guy that has 4 year's starting experience at a D1 school, was a potential first rounder one time, has been apart of one of the most successful ground games in the nation the past couple years, and can completely take his guy out of the play at times. Sure he gets tired and will take a play or two off, it's rare to find a 330 pound guy who doesn't. He has the potential to be dominant with the right coaching and motivation. McNeill was pegged as having chronic back problems and taking plays off prior to the 06 draft. What happened to him, he's a Pro Bowler now in San Diego after only his rookie season. I'll take my chances.

Joeyjr09
03-06-2008, 04:21 PM
The ideal Parcells lineman in the second round has got to be Carl Nicks. At 6'5
330 he is the real deal. Just dont know if he will be sitting there in the back end of the 2nd round. Heath Benedict is also an option but where the hell is Newberry college and why wasnt this guy on atleast some type of division 1 program.

I think Carl Nicks and Anthony Collins will be be going right around where our low 2nd is and I think both a possible targets for Parcells.

Quagmire
03-11-2008, 10:26 AM
Well, it looks like Gholston might be in play for the #1 pick. Per NFL network, Pasqualoni worked him out yesterday and they took him out to dinner after his pro day... Ran 4.58 with 42' vertical. I hope they really do consider him because he is the guy who I think can make the biggest impact in this draft if they are stuck at #1 (Which is looking more and more likely each day) C. Long may be more steady, but I think Gholston may have more star potential...

BigBlueCrew56
03-11-2008, 11:59 AM
We will probably be hearing the same things coming out real soon with Matt Ryan,Chris Long, and Jake Long. Team is doing it's due diligence.

BigBlueCrew56
03-11-2008, 01:22 PM
Hey Mando, what's the truth behind Gholston's Pro Day?

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=377837

NFL personnel arrived at the Ohio State Pro Day excited about how DE Vernon Gholston would work out. He no doubt looks the part: very muscular and defined. Gholston impressed many when he ran his 40 on field turf instead of Ohio State's notoriously fast track, timing a 4.63 and a 4.65. Then jumped a 37-38 inch vertical; anyone who reports he jumped 42 inches has bad sources as the testing unit was slightly broken during his jump. Once on the field, though, Gholston was not nearly as impressive. He is so muscle-bound and big that he struggled to bend knees and sink hips, which hindered his ability to change directions in drills.

Quagmire
03-11-2008, 01:39 PM
Blue,

You are correct about the posturing, though I think it would not matter much with Gholston because I don't think anyone would trade to #1 to get him. Reading your link there is just funny because it is amazing how different people in attendance viewed the workout with an opposite viewpoint....... I will stand by what I said before that Gholston has a tremendous upside. I just can't wait for the draft to get here to end the suspense.

BTW, they signed Keith Davis, the Dallas S today. Good ST guy and added depth in the secondary. Looks like they are really focusing on ST this offseason.....

BigBlueCrew56
03-11-2008, 01:42 PM
Love the signing of Keith Davis. Special Teams is so important so I am glad that Parcells and company are addressing this. Davis will be the captain on our special teams much like he was with the Cowboys. Love it!

BigBlueCrew56
03-11-2008, 01:45 PM
Gholston has tremendous upside but also has tremendous Bust side. Could be a workout warrior. I'd would have to go Chris Long if I had to choose because there is a lower risk of failure due to his pedigree. Howie was such a great player that Chris is going to try his hardest to match that. He will always have motivation on the field no matter what.

Quagmire
03-11-2008, 01:46 PM
Hey Mando, what's the truth behind Gholston's Pro Day?

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=377837

NFL personnel arrived at the Ohio State Pro Day excited about how DE Vernon Gholston would work out. He no doubt looks the part: very muscular and defined. Gholston impressed many when he ran his 40 on field turf instead of Ohio State's notoriously fast track, timing a 4.63 and a 4.65. Then jumped a 37-38 inch vertical; anyone who reports he jumped 42 inches has bad sources as the testing unit was slightly broken during his jump. Once on the field, though, Gholston was not nearly as impressive. He is so muscle-bound and big that he struggled to bend knees and sink hips, which hindered his ability to change directions in drills.

BTW,

The muscle bound thing might be more of a concern for us considering they want him as a 3-4 LB. For teams looking at him as a DE, I don't think it would matter too much. If they are looking for more a quick-hip player at OLB, Quentin Groves from Auburn is that guy. (Though definitely not at #1) He will go somewhere in the early part of round 1 (10-20)

Quagmire
03-11-2008, 01:49 PM
Gholston has tremendous upside but also has tremendous Bust side. Could be a workout warrior. I'd would have to go Chris Long if I had to choose because there is a lower risk of failure due to his pedigree. Howie was such a great player that Chris is going to try his hardest to match that. He will always have motivation on the field no matter what.

No doubt that he has a higher downside to go along with the higher upside. I really happen to like him as a player, though. Again, I don't have an issue with C. Long, I just don't think he will be special. Gholston might be. Although, I am not the one putting up $30 million + guaranteed, so if it was my cash, I might play it safer as well.....

BigBlueCrew56
03-11-2008, 01:49 PM
I agree Quag I think he may be a bust if drafted as a 3-4 OLB. He is better suited playing with his hands down and maybe 3-4 OLB on 3rd down. He needs to be in a hybrid style of defense much like what the Rams play. 1-2 down they play 4-3 then on third downs he moves over to OLB to rush the QB.

BigBlueCrew56
03-11-2008, 01:50 PM
His best fit may be with the Patriots where they wont rely on him from day one. He will be a situational pass rusher for them. After years of grooming and maybe drills to become more flexible he can convert to be there full time 3-4 OLB. I also think the Rams at #2 would be a nice fit for him as they play hybrid.

Joeyjr09
03-11-2008, 02:46 PM
I disagree with you guys completely on him playing with his hand down. He ahs the most upside as a OLB in the 3-4. The dude has Kameron Wimbley, Demarcus Ware written all over him IMO. I would love to have him, he just doesn't really seem to fir with our pick as most people think Chris Long is the better OLB prospect. I think Long is the one of the two that is better suited to play with his hand down. Gholston on the other hand is the best 3-4 OLB in this draft IMO. Too bad his value seems in the 3-6 range which is just too big a reach it appears for us to take him. I'd love to have him tho.

Quagmire
03-11-2008, 02:55 PM
I disagree with you guys completely on him playing with his hand down. He ahs the most upside as a OLB in the 3-4. The dude has Kameron Wimbley, Demarcus Ware written all over him IMO. I would love to have him, he just doesn't really seem to fir with our pick as most people think Chris Long is the better OLB prospect. I think Long is the one of the two that is better suited to play with his hand down. Gholston on the other hand is the best 3-4 OLB in this draft IMO. Too bad his value seems in the 3-6 range which is just too big a reach it appears for us to take him. I'd love to have him tho.

Joe,

Just to confirm, I love the idea of drafting him at #1. If the pick was mine, Gholston would be the guy. I was just saying that if they have fears of him being too stiff in the hips, they should go another direction. I totally agree that as a pass rusher, he is everything you want. But, if he is going to be in coverage on occasion, you do not want the RB's killing him on passes out of the backfield. But, again, he would be my choice over C. Long or J. Long as the #1 pick. I just think that no matter which one they take, they will end up with a good player. It is just that Gholston could end up being great..

thebow305
03-11-2008, 03:28 PM
Joe,

Just to confirm, I love the idea of drafting him at #1. If the pick was mine, Gholston would be the guy. I was just saying that if they have fears of him being too stiff in the hips, they should go another direction. I totally agree that as a pass rusher, he is everything you want. But, if he is going to be in coverage on occasion, you do not want the RB's killing him on passes out of the backfield. But, again, he would be my choice over C. Long or J. Long as the #1 pick. I just think that no matter which one they take, they will end up with a good player. It is just that Gholston could end up being great..

But Chris Long could also end up being great as well. I don't understand where all these people come off saying he has NO upside and he will be good but probably never great. His dad was a Hall of Famer and I see that same potential and upside for Chris. He is an explosive, instinctive player and a team leader that as no problem getting and staying motivated. I see him stepping in at OLB for us and being GREAT for a long, long time.

For the record though, I would absolutely LOVE to have either one of these guys and I think it will ultimately come down to these 2 for our pick, with Ryan and Jake falling out of the discussion eventually. I just feel like Long has all the ties and is TOO MUCH of a Parcells guy for the Tuna to pass on him. He is the MUCH safer and probably smarter pick for us at #1.

I would not be surprised if we took either one though.