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View Full Version : The Failures of Matt Millen


Xiomera
02-17-2008, 08:36 PM
What is the #1 reason the Lions have been unsuccessful under Millen?

Discuss . . .

Crickett
02-17-2008, 09:32 PM
Ooh, this is a tough one. Looking individually at the players the Lions have drafted, I don't think you can point to a very high draft pick and say "yeah, that pick sucked" other than Mike Williams. Yeah, plenty have been busts, but did you know when he was coming out that Charles Rogers would be a bust? He was at the time supposedly the best WR prospect since Randy Moss and with his measurables and college career, its not hard to see why. I had Andre Johnson rated higher than him, but not even I thought Rogers was going to be a straight out bust. A lot of people had Boss Bailey going to St. Louis. In the first round. Joey Harrington was one I eat lots of crow over since I watched him in college and thought he was going to be a great NFL QB.

Given that opinion, I'd say that its a combination of poor strategem (signings/trades/line-up) as well as poor coaching and poor player development.

neko4
02-17-2008, 09:38 PM
Poor drafting
Lots of teams have poor FA signings and are still good. (Green Bay last year only signed Frank Walker, Washington signed Antwan Randle El and Brandon Lloyd for god sakes) Mooch has proven to be a sucessful coach just not in Detroit, but the drafting on this team is horrendous.
2 of the 4 first round WR's are nowhere to be found. One wants to leave. Those picks could of gone elsewhere to help the team. And not to mention the low sucess rate of later picks (Cody, Lehman, Keith Smith among others)
But I cant comment on owner interference since i dont know the team that well.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-17-2008, 09:40 PM
Other. All of the above. Millens GMship can only be described as a calamity of events. If you think about, you can find reasoning behind every move he has made, except maybe the Mike Williams pick. And even the Mike Williams pick you had an offensive minded head coach, Williams was supposed to be a great player/BPA(cough, cough Mel Kiper) and Charlie Rogers just wasn't dependable(2 broken collarbones). That being said, why Millen why would you take Mike Williams.

Millen tries. He really did try the right way. His first draft was LT,Center,Defensive Tackle. Backus has been average but consistent and always starts. The same goes for Raiola. Shaun Rogers has gotten better every year until 2007 but his motor runs hot and cold more than ever afterhis knee injuries. A whole offseason of sitting around will make a fat man even fatter.

2002, we had to take a QB. We needed a franchise QB. Joey was a very good player in college. If you look at the QB drafts in 2002/2003, they were absolutley terrible players(and we weren't in a lucky enough position to draft Carson Palmer). We had to draft Joey, but experimenting with Joey set the team back from 2002-2005. Joey just isn't a winner, but somehow he still starts. He curses teams with Miami and Daunte and now Vick in Atlanta. I think Joey is behind this dog scandal, lol. There is no way of really knowing about Joey beforehand. Also Kalimba was a second rounder that never panned out. Resigning him was a bonehead move, but Kalimba did have a decent year in 2005, and Marinelli/Henderson were just coming in. They thought they could coach him up. They were wrong and Millen was stubborn and Kalimba gets injured and only ever showed flashes.

Next Charlie Rogers. Another great college player/hometown here. Millen was praised for picking him. Joey needed a weapon. But freak injuries, two years of sitting around for Rogers and he is bound to lose a step. Especially if he's smoking. Charlie Rogers is on Charlie Rogers. The Lions deserve to get that bonus money back but I don't think they will.

Boss Bailey. Great athletic linebacker. Here begins the Millen 2nd round curse. Every Millen 2nd rounder has gotten hurt badly in year 2 of their career thus hindering their development greatly. Boss Bailey, Teddy Lehman, Shaun Cody,Daniel Bullocks. Bailey wasn't the same until the middle of last year, Lehman still isn't the same, Cody just stinks and we'll see how Bullocks recovers. The Millen 2nd round curse greatly hurts this team. If you have first round busts like Joey and Charlie and 2nd round injuries, you basically get nothing from the draft. Stanton already got hurt hindering his development and I'll put money that either Ikaika or Alexander go on IR early next year.

Roy and KJ. We finally hit on someone. Lehman had the injury curse and another 3rd round corner was taken(Keith Smith,Goodman the year before) Now everyone wants Roy traded. I just don't get it. He's such a rarity. A successful Millen pick. I would hold on to him for dear life.

2005 Mike Williams explained above. 2nd Round Cody(injury/stinks) 3rd round(another corner in Stanely Wilson). You guys really want Millen to take a 2nd or 3rd round corner again? After Goodman,Keith Smith,Wilson all failed?

2006 Sims. Good move, no brainer Marinelli pick. Bullocks gets the 2nd round injury and 3rd round is a Martz move with Calhoun. Calhoun shows some flashes but he too is injury prone.

2007 Calvin. BPA, should compliment Roy and open up the running game. Alexander,Ikaika and Stanton are to be determined.

Coaching. He wanted Mooch, had to settle for Morningwheg, gave up quickly on Mooch and now loves Marinelli. Mooch is a good coach. Morningwheg runs a good system but he had no talent at all but taking the wind raises some questions. Marinelli is a good coach as well but he had a big learning curb going from position coach to head coach.

Free agency: Woody,Bryant,Bly all were good on their prior teams. What happened when they got to Detroit?

TimD
02-17-2008, 09:43 PM
I have to say, with my knowledge of the Lions, that you can't pin point one part of his job that have led to unsuccessful seasons. So I voted for other a.k.a. "all of the above"

bearsfan_51
02-17-2008, 09:47 PM
I've said before that I think the worst move Millen has made was the massive contract he gave to Jeff Backus. As a previous poster said, hindsight is 20/20 in the draft (even if that's his job), but he should have known Backus' flaws by then. The money they gave to Corey Redding was a bit much too, though admittedly was probably what they had to do.

Brothgar
02-17-2008, 09:51 PM
Ooh, this is a tough one. Looking individually at the players the Lions have drafted, I don't think you can point to a very high draft pick and say "yeah, that pick sucked" other than Mike Williams. Yeah, plenty have been busts, but did you know when he was coming out that Charles Rogers would be a bust? He was at the time supposedly the best WR prospect since Randy Moss and with his measurables and college career, its not hard to see why. I had Andre Johnson rated higher than him, but not even I thought Rogers was going to be a straight out bust. A lot of people had Boss Bailey going to St. Louis. In the first round. Joey Harrington was one I eat lots of crow over since I watched him in college and thought he was going to be a great NFL QB.

Given that opinion, I'd say that its a combination of poor strategem (signings/trades/line-up) as well as poor coaching and poor player development.

This may be true but you do not have a team of scouts looking at tape 24/7 yeah busts happen but they don't happen as many times as it has in the millen era in the time frame of the millen era. I say drafting/player development.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-17-2008, 09:53 PM
I've said before that I think the worst move Millen has made was the massive contract he gave to Jeff Backus. As a previous poster said, hindsight is 20/20 in the draft (even if that's his job), but he should have known Backus' flaws by then. The money they gave to Corey Redding was a bit much too, though admittedly was probably what they had to do.

Resigning Backus was Millens stubborness. However, Backus wasn't this terrible until Martz got here. He was average, maybe a little above average and very dependable(never missed a start). When Martz got here, and we pass a million times a game, Backus has really stuggled. 2004-2005 were weren't giving up 50-60 sacks a year.

If Backus would have gone into free agency in 2006, he would have been the top left tackle available. So we couldn't replace him in 2006. And the 2006 draft we picked 9th, DBrick went 4th and the next pick was Winston Justice in Round 2. Not much to offer in the draft. We basically had to resign Backus.

benchod
02-17-2008, 09:55 PM
Roy and KJ. We finally hit on someone. Lehman had the injury curse and another 3rd round corner was taken(Keith Smith,Goodman the year before) Now everyone wants Roy traded. I just don't get it. He's such a rarity. A successful Millen pick. I would hold on to him for dear life.

They're saying to trade Roy because he has said he would prefer to play closer to home in Texas, so the assumption is he will leave as a FA.

This doesn't factor the whole franchise tag and other scenarios that could arise, but it basically revolves around the fact that Roy doesn't want to be in Detroit.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-17-2008, 10:04 PM
They're saying to trade Roy because he has said he would prefer to play closer to home in Texas, so the assumption is he will leave as a FA.

This doesn't factor the whole franchise tag and other scenarios that could arise, but it basically revolves around the fact that Roy doesn't want to be in Detroit.

Basically if the Lions win this year, I think we can change his tune.Winning changes everything and so does money. And Roy hasn't definitley come out and said he wants to be traded to a Texas team. Kowalski created that article in the offseason when there is nothing to talk about and Roy has refuted it. And even if he wants to play in Texas, screw that. I don't want to give him to Dallas for another Millen pick. Lets just set Dallas up for the future. They need a good WR, so we'll just give them ours because he loves Texas. Go to Texas all offseason for all I care but come training camp get back to Detroit.

Also as you said there is the franchise tag. Its a contract year this year. Roy is going to be playing his ass off for a contract. I'd want him doing that as a Lion. If we don't win, franchise him and trade him for a 1st rounder. If someone is willing to give up a first rounder this year, someone will be willing to give up a first rounder next year. TO, Hines Ward, Galloway, Driver, Marvin Harrison will all be 1 year older by then.

bearsfan_51
02-17-2008, 10:08 PM
Resigning Backus was Millens stubborness. However, Backus wasn't this terrible until Martz got here. He was average, maybe a little above average and very dependable(never missed a start). When Martz got here, and we pass a million times a game, Backus has really stuggled. 2004-2005 were weren't giving up 50-60 sacks a year.

If Backus would have gone into free agency in 2006, he would have been the top left tackle available. So we couldn't replace him in 2006. And the 2006 draft we picked 9th, DBrick went 4th and the next pick was Winston Justice in Round 2. Not much to offer in the draft. We basically had to resign Backus.

I think we just fundmentally disagree on how terrible Backus is. But you are correct, Martz exposed the fact that he's really not a LT.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-17-2008, 10:29 PM
I think we just fundmentally disagree on how terrible Backus is. But you are correct, Martz exposed the fact that he's really not a LT.

Martz pretty much screws linemen. Even with Orlando Pace the Rams gave up 40-45 sacks a year. It wasn't Paces fault, but giving up that many sacks with Orlando Pace proves their is a problem with Martz.

Backus was a decent O-linemen before Martz got here. Here's proof
http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=5465&team=8

He only gave up 3 sacks in 2005 and we signed him the offseason after that. There were no better options as I said before in the draft or free agency. Millen was actually justified in signing Backus. Martz ruins Linemen.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-17-2008, 10:36 PM
The thing that screwed the Lions line for the future wasn't Jeff Backus. It was the Dre Bly trade for George Foster. If we don't make that trade, 1) we have a much better secondary 2) maybe we take Joe Thomas since we would have an opening at Right Tackle 3) Foster played terribly this year.

I know Backus was hurt this year as well. He strained a muscle by his rib cage in the warmups to the Philly game. He wasn't the same until the end of the season but he played hurt.

Geo
02-17-2008, 10:45 PM
I think his handling of personnel is the key. Free agent acquisition and the Draft.

It's not just the first round picks that are commonly pointed to, there are 7 rounds in a Draft - I don't know off the top of my head how well Millen and the Lions' front office/scouting department are hitting in the Draft, but I would venture to guess not very good. The big problem being, this team greatly needs a strong influx on talent, missing the mark on draft picks is stagnating them in mediocrity in the meantime.

If you're spending multiple draft picks to have to get it right at one position, obviously that takes away from your ability to improve other areas of the team. For example, last year's Draft: Detroit traded two picks to trade up twice, for DE Ikaika Alama-Francis in the second round and G Manuel Ramirez in the 4th round. If they don't pan out, that's two wasted opportunities and four wasted draft picks, with needs on the roster still remaining.

It's not just first round picks (although those are very important to get players to build the team around), second and third round picks are also very valuable. You can't hit them all on the (formerly) Day Two picks, but you have to get some right - especially when you're team isn't very good.

Add to that some poor personnel decisions by Millen, some contracts he's responsible for (Bachus is an excellent example, he needs to be playing right tackle now), and it's created a situation that can't seem to improve much with each passing season. And maybe someone could tell Millen that he needs to give receivers until their third year to fully blossom, that might be beneficial as well.

Honestly, and this isn't majorly shocking, the Lions need to move on to a better person to direct the franchise. It's disappointing, that for whatever reason(s), they won't make that right move. I've found that, when most franchises are disappointing, more often than not it stems from ownership. In this case, ownership is at the very least responsible for failing the franchise and their fans by not cutting ties and hiring a better person for the job. They are essentially welcoming failure and futility, that's terrible. I think that's the case with the Lions, unfortunately for their passionate fans.

Keep the faith, guys. Hopefully you guys get a winner sooner rather than later.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-17-2008, 10:52 PM
Add to that some poor personnel decisions by Millen, some contracts he's responsible for (Bachus is an excellent example, he needs to be playing right tackle now), and it's created a situation that can't seem to improve much with each passing season. And maybe someone could tell Millen that he needs to give receivers until their third year to fully blossom, that might be beneficial as well.

I agree with a lot of what you said as far as picks from Round 2 to Round 7. Millen rarely hits on them. 2nd Round has been cursed with bad injuries(not really Millens fault), 3rd round has been 3 terrible corners(2003-2005) and injury prone Calhoun.

The contracts Millen gave to Backus, Kalimba and Redding can be justified. Backus gave up 3 sacks the year before(which was better than Orlando Pace). The majority of his career before Martz, he was a franchise left tackle. Secondly, Backus doesn't have the strength to play right tackle. He's doesn't have lower leg strength. That is his flaw. Most of the time when he is beaten, it is by the bull rush. Stronger Left Ends would be able to beat him but Backus is athletic enough to play left tackle and handle speedier/athletic Right Ends. Kalimba had 7 sacks in 2005, 2 FF and 3 recoveries. He played hard in a contract year as did Redding. Marinelli/Henderson thought they could coach up Kalimba. Marinelli after all is one of the best D-line coaches in the business. Therefore, Kalimba was resigned. Redding had a postion change, did very well, has a great attitude Marinelli loves and Rogers was coming off a major injury.

wingboy2999
02-17-2008, 10:54 PM
I don't even know.

Addict
02-18-2008, 04:52 AM
All of the above. But it's not just Millen, although he does have a lot to do with it. The ownership just doesn't care.

Xiomera
02-18-2008, 06:52 AM
I had to vote Poor Drafting, though it is surely a combination of all these things.

I keep going back to this . . . Millen has had 57 draft picks since he got here. 26 (at last count) were on the Lions roster. The other 27 are out of the NFL entirely.

Jonathan Scott, Keith Smith and Stanley Wilson are the only players drafted beyond the 2nd round who contributes in any way, shape, or form. And none of them start.

JPLUFF
02-18-2008, 08:04 AM
I voted other simply because I think it has to do more with player development than poor drafting. Like what was stated above most of our first round/2nd round picks were common sense picks and good picks at the time (Bailey, Rogers etc), but they came here and for lack of a better word, sucked. As for the mid-late round picks, again it's just not developing players. Some of this probably does have to do with trying to put players in systems they don't belong in, which is a result of poor drafting. Harrington had a career 55% completion percentage at Oregon, so he never had the accuracy for the WCO, and BMW was just big and slow and again, didn't exactly fit the scheme whatsoever.

Jagonsucker
02-18-2008, 10:08 AM
I gotta go with poor drafting. I mean jeeze..First this asshole takes Rogers, next year he takes Williams, then he takes Mike Williams, then the next year after that he takes CJ???? Wow, after Roy Williams, we shouldnt have drafted anymore WRs, Joe Thomas was available at the number 2 spot last year and just happenes to be the position we most desperatly need (RT). We took Mike Williams when we had other needs i just dont get it. Look at the Giants...all the players they drafted played in the superbowl. Thats how you get a winning team, draft key players.

wingboy2999
02-18-2008, 11:18 AM
Yeah, I guess I'll go with drafting. He has obviously had some good finds. But that was when he was set up to do it in the 1st-2nd. The number Xio threw up was a giant hit or miss, damn.

detroit4life
02-18-2008, 05:37 PM
drafting thats how you build your teams and the picks we've had in his time all but one or two i think were top 10 picks. Joey...no longer here. Crog... out of the NFL...BMW...just terrible. He went for flashy picks which was no way to build a team. He had to adress the lines first to be successful at all and he failed at that. If you cannot draft well you will not be able to win in this league plain and simple and Millen sucks at drafting players

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-18-2008, 09:16 PM
drafting thats how you build your teams and the picks we've had in his time all but one or two i think were top 10 picks. Joey...no longer here. Crog... out of the NFL...BMW...just terrible. He went for flashy picks which was no way to build a team. He had to adress the lines first to be successful at all and he failed at that. If you cannot draft well you will not be able to win in this league plain and simple and Millen sucks at drafting players

He did address the lines first. His first pick ever was a left tackle. His second pick ever was a center and his third pick was a DT. Plus he inherited a first round O-linemen from the year before.

detroit4life
02-18-2008, 10:24 PM
He did address the lines first. His first pick ever was a left tackle. His second pick ever was a center and his third pick was a DT. Plus he inherited a first round O-linemen from the year before.

he addressed the line 5 years ago. And BTW that LT he took sucks the guy he inherited is no longer on the team. The center is decent i guess. IDK who the DT was but chances are he also is not on the team. So yea he addressed the line but those players are decent at best. he drafted a bust QB and 2 bust wrs all in a 4 year time span. In all honesty who ever takes 3 WRs in the top 10 for 3 years. Especially while u have a bust QB playing for you and a terrible line. Drafting is easily the reason Millen is a terrible GM

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-19-2008, 06:08 AM
Backus wasn't terrible until Martz got here. Look at his sacks allowed in my previous posts. McDougle and Backus were first round picks. He can't give up on them after one year. After 2004, it was time to give up on McDougle and Backus was playing well. The DT was Shaun Rogers by the way. Also Millen signed Woody in 2004(a former 1st rounder, good player with the Patriots). He's tried free agents at the LG position but should have stuck with Kosier. He tried DeMulling(a former Indy player who looked good because of Peyton, which probably will be the same as Jake Scott and Lilja). RT after he gave up on McDougle in 2004, he went with Butler,then Rex Tucker(FA) then George Foster(former 1st rounder). You do realize the Lions team in 2007 had 3 first rounders, a second rounder and Mulitalo(a decent free agent) on our line. He didn't ignore it. His players may be struggling but Foster,Woody,Backus under Martz are first rounders. I've seen people wanting Woody back. And I'll give Backus one more chance without Martz and without a strained muscle by his rib cage.

Have you looked at 2002/2003 draft class for QBs. Other than Carson Palmer, who we couldn't get, they are all busts, except for Garrard. And Garrard didn't start playing well until this year.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=position&position=Quarterbacks

I don't understand how you can blame Millen for Rogers. The guy was a stud coming out of college. Everyone praised Millen for that draft.

Mike Williams was a huge mistake. He fit the system, we had an offensive minded coach, Rogers had 2 major injuries and we were still in the Joey experiment mode. He was considered BPA by some and who knows how hard Mooch lobbied for him. Taking him was a mistake. If we take Derrick Johnson though in 2005, 2006 we probably don't take Ernie Sims.

Addict
02-19-2008, 06:19 AM
Backus wasn't terrible until Martz got here. Look at his sacks allowed in my previous posts. McDougle and Backus were first round picks. He can't give up on them after one year. After 2004, it was time to give up on McDougle and Backus was playing well. The DT was Shaun Rogers by the way. Also Millen signed Woody in 2004(a former 1st rounder, good player with the Patriots). He's tried free agents at the LG position but should have stuck with Kosier. He tried DeMulling(a former Indy player who looked good because of Peyton, which probably will be the same as Jake Scott and Lilja). RT after he gave up on McDougle in 2004, he went with Butler,then Rex Tucker(FA) then George Foster(former 1st rounder). You do realize the Lions team in 2007 had 3 first rounders, a second rounder and Mulitalo(a decent free agent) on our line. He didn't ignore it. His players may be struggling but Foster,Woody,Backus under Martz are first rounders. I've seen people wanting Woody back. And I'll give Backus one more chance without Martz and without a strained muscle by his rib cage.

Have you looked at 2002/2003 draft class for QBs. Other than Carson Palmer, who we couldn't get, they are all busts, except for Garrard. And Garrard didn't start playing well until this year.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=position&position=Quarterbacks

I don't understand how you can blame Millen for Rogers. The guy was a stud coming out of college. Everyone praised Millen for that draft.

Mike Williams was a huge mistake. He fit the system, we had an offensive minded coach, Rogers had 2 major injuries and we were still in the Joey experiment mode. He was considered BPA by some and who knows how hard Mooch lobbied for him. Taking him was a mistake. If we take Derrick Johnson though in 2005, 2006 we probably don't take Ernie Sims.

very much correct. the thing is most of millen's picks made sense when they were made, they just turned out to be huge mistakes. Mel Kiper Jr. was throwing words like 'dynasty' around after we selected BMW. The problem isn't with Millen selecting poor players per say, although his later round succes percentage is abysmal. I think that it's been some rotten luck more than anything.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-19-2008, 06:09 PM
very much correct. the thing is most of millen's picks made sense when they were made, they just turned out to be huge mistakes. Mel Kiper Jr. was throwing words like 'dynasty' around after we selected BMW. The problem isn't with Millen selecting poor players per say, although his later round succes percentage is abysmal. I think that it's been some rotten luck more than anything.

I agree the later rounds are abysmal. But how much of that is on the coaching staff. Later round players have to be developed. Nobody picks a 6th rounder expecting them to be good. A coach has to develop them. And lately we've been giving up them very quickly. AJ Davis and Baldwin didn't even get a chance.

That being said, our coaching choices were not that abysmal by Millen. Who thougth Mariucci would only combine for 17 wins in 3 years. Mariucci was and is a good coach. Everyone loves Marinelli. And as far as the coaching staff, they are usually hand picked by the HEAD COACH not Matt Millen. Jauron is a decent coach. Henderson had success with the Jets and was a stop gap solution until we could get Barry. Barry was handpicked by Marinelli. Millen has made some blunders but I wouldn't put the entire blame on Millens shoulders. I think we do need a new GM, but I'm not blaming Millen for every bad play. The Lions as an organization lost, not Millen alone.

detroit4life
02-20-2008, 01:48 PM
BMW was a stupid pick idc about BPA you cant build a team by taking 3 recievers in a row. Its also known that Millen took players without consulting his coaches and f orced these players on the coach. BMW did not fit a west coast offense he was big and slow.

In no way do i blame Millen for Rogers i actually loved the pick his injuries were just too freak and after being out 2 years he couldnt get back into the game. He continuosly tried to patch the oline up with old FAs that never worked. Demulling, Tucker, Verba, Foster all did nothing here yet this was MIllens way to avoid drafting Oline because on paper the positions looked solid but he never added the youth or the depth to the line.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-20-2008, 06:06 PM
BMW was a stupid pick idc about BPA you cant build a team by taking 3 recievers in a row. Its also known that Millen took players without consulting his coaches and f orced these players on the coach. BMW did not fit a west coast offense he was big and slow.



In no way do i blame Millen for Rogers i actually loved the pick his injuries were just too freak and after being out 2 years he couldnt get back into the game. He continuosly tried to patch the oline up with old FAs that never worked. Demulling, Tucker, Verba, Foster all did nothing here yet this was MIllens way to avoid drafting Oline because on paper the positions looked solid but he never added the youth or the depth to the line.

Mike Williams was a bad pick. But there is some reasoning behind it. And Mike Williams is a perfect fit for the West Coast offense. You want big tall receivers in the West Coast offense. And there is no way you know for a fact that Millen didn't consult Mariucci or Marinelli about any pick. I'm sure they had input in every pick.

Millen has drafted linemen. Backus,Raiola,Kelly Butler,Jonathan Scott, Manny Ramirez. Woody and DeMulling were higher priced, considered good at the time free agents. Adding DeMulling would be like adding Lilja or Jake Scott this offseason. 2006 there were no first round linemen besides DBrick. 2007 the move for Foster was terrible in hindsight, but he too was a first round pick. He was a decent player until he came to Detroit.

JPLUFF
02-20-2008, 10:09 PM
Mike Williams was a bad pick. But there is some reasoning behind it. And Mike Williams is a perfect fit for the West Coast offense. You want big tall receivers in the West Coast offense. And there is no way you know for a fact that Millen didn't consult Mariucci or Marinelli about any pick. I'm sure they had input in every pick.

Millen has drafted linemen. Backus,Raiola,Kelly Butler,Jonathan Scott, Manny Ramirez. Woody and DeMulling were higher priced, considered good at the time free agents. Adding DeMulling would be like adding Lilja or Jake Scott this offseason. 2006 there were no first round linemen besides DBrick. 2007 the move for Foster was terrible in hindsight, but he too was a first round pick. He was a decent player until he came to Detroit.

Big & Tall is ok, slow is not. BMW was definitely slow.

detroit4life
02-20-2008, 10:18 PM
Big & Tall is ok, slow is not. BMW was definitely slow.

thank you... west coast recievers are suppose to be fast and are suppose to be able to get yards after the catch. So how does it make sense to take a big slow reciever? Especially after you just took 2 big talll and fast recievers

Crickett
02-20-2008, 10:42 PM
BMW was a HORRID pick. But aside from him, did you look at any of the early picks Millen made and say "Wow, that pick sucked." I mean, of course you do now, but what about when they were first made?

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-21-2008, 10:07 AM
I'm not defending the Mike Williams pick. I'm just saying there is some reasoning behind it, although very little reasoning because it was another wide receiver. West Coast receivers need to be able to get YAC and break tackles, and thus be bigger although every receiver needs to be able to get separation. Mike Williams is a big receiver and would be a red zone threat as well. This pick was made before we had a Martz system where guys like Furrey and McDonald can be successful. Everyone knew of his speed problems but many thought it was being out of football for a year. Kiper loved the guy. There must have been some reason he was being picked at 10. We'll never know how far he would have dropped.

Addict
02-21-2008, 01:08 PM
BMW was a HORRID pick. But aside from him, did you look at any of the early picks Millen made and say "Wow, that pick sucked." I mean, of course you do now, but what about when they were first made?

I remember a certain draft analyst who claimed it was a dynasty-starting type pick... he had funky hair...

still does.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-21-2008, 01:12 PM
I remember a certain draft analyst who claimed it was a dynasty-starting type pick... he had funky hair...

still does.

Mel's analysis probably saved my tv. I might have broken it with my shoe if he wasn't so high on Mike Williams.

Addict
02-21-2008, 01:13 PM
Mel's analysis probably saved my tv. I might have broken it with my shoe if he wasn't so high on Mike Williams.

Just too bad he was WAAAAAY off.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-21-2008, 01:22 PM
Just too bad he was WAAAAAY off.

Yep Mike scored in his first game and his last game as a Lion. Other than that terrible.

The drop against the Bears paved the way for Calvin though.

dreadedluck
02-21-2008, 03:00 PM
First off, poor drafting is a major cause to the problems of this team. Coaching options made were/are just as much a problem. To me Millen fails at the most crucial point of all team sports, chemistry. He does not have the ability to impliment a passion and desire or even a plan that should be the primary source that the team leans on. It has never been the best players, but the team most willing to buy into a plan that succeeds. Millen has zero respect in the behind closed doors reality of the NFL. Free agents will not come here, players want out, and the league laughs at him. He is a poor choice for a GM. A coach could fix this, one that can rally a team behind him, but Millen being a true megalomaniac, will only place coaches that will be his yes men. Poor Steve, he actually stood up to Millen and was then fired/resigned. Millen believes that he is bigger then the team. This is why the drafts go poorly, free agent signings are a lost cause, and our coaches are inexperienced.

Iamcanadian
02-21-2008, 07:48 PM
Every point on that list without exception. He's failed in every area except being nice to Ford and keeping his job. There isn't one area where a GM must excell where Millen hasn't failed miserably except selling out the stadium.

Iamcanadian
02-21-2008, 07:51 PM
First off, poor drafting is a major cause to the problems of this team. Coaching options made were/are just as much a problem. To me Millen fails at the most crucial point of all team sports, chemistry. He does not have the ability to impliment a passion and desire or even a plan that should be the primary source that the team leans on. It has never been the best players, but the team most willing to buy into a plan that succeeds. Millen has zero respect in the behind closed doors reality of the NFL. Free agents will not come here, players want out, and the league laughs at him. He is a poor choice for a GM. A coach could fix this, one that can rally a team behind him, but Millen being a true megalomaniac, will only place coaches that will be his yes men. Poor Steve, he actually stood up to Millen and was then fired/resigned. Millen believes that he is bigger then the team. This is why the drafts go poorly, free agent signings are a lost cause, and our coaches are inexperienced.

Great post except not even BB could succeed here. A GM still has to provide a HC with talent in order to win and Millen has never done that for a HC and never will.

detroit4life
02-21-2008, 10:16 PM
Great post except not even BB could succeed here. A GM still has to provide a HC with talent in order to win and Millen has never done that for a HC and never will.

and that comes from drafting. Yes you can get some talent in FA but generally you build your teams through the draft. I can agree that he did get pretty unlucky in some picks (rogers) but after round 3 Millen has failed to bring in any starters and thats terrible.