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View Full Version : First Round Selection: Which Position?


Xiomera
02-23-2008, 11:31 AM
Which position do you think the Lions should spend their first round pick on?

Take into consideration which players are likely to be available at 15.

TacticaLion
02-23-2008, 11:35 AM
I think it really depends on the trades we make and who is on the board (of course).

For example, if we trade Rogers, I'd actually like to use the pick on a stud DT (if one is available). If we get a 2nd for Rogers, we can use it on a CB and be set.

I've also changed my mind and would rather not draft Dan Connor at pick 1.15. He's a great player and I'd love to have him, but I'd rather build up our DLine and Secondary and take a player like Gooden in round 3.

Xiomera
02-23-2008, 11:38 AM
I think it really depends on the trades we make and who is on the board (of course).

For example, if we trade Rogers, I'd actually like to use the pick on a stud DT (if one is available). If we get a 2nd for Rogers, we can use it on a CB and be set.

I've also changed my mind and would rather not draft Dan Connor at pick 1.15. He's a great player and I'd love to have him, but I'd rather build up our DLine and Secondary and take a player like Gooden in round 3.

At 15, there will not be a Defensive Tackle of value to take. Dorsey and Ellis will be gone. Balmer isn't worth it. I do think we need to draft a DT early though, if Shaun is dealt.

I went with OT, but part of me wanted to pick RB.

TacticaLion
02-23-2008, 11:46 AM
At 15, there will not be a Defensive Tackle of value to take. Dorsey and Ellis will be gone. Balmer isn't worth it. I do think we need to draft a DT early though, if Shaun is dealt.

I went with OT, but part of me wanted to pick RB.I've actually stepped away from RB as a 1st round need.

If we trade Roy, we can save the Tag for KJ next year. If he gets healthy, gets carries and explodes, I think he'd want to stay in Detroit. If he doesn't, we'll tag him and *try* to work a contract (or trade him).

We can find a decent 'back in FA and start the season with KJ/Duckett/FA/Rookie. RBs, IMO, aren't worth a 1st round pick... too many injuries and their short careers. Shaun Alexander is a great example... NFL stud to Free Agent in 3 years? Not to mention we can grab a RB next year in FA.

At 1.15, Pat Sims might be available. I don't know much about him, but he's moving up boards and is a great junior prospect.

If I had to vote as it stands right now, I'd probably go OT in round 1.

Xiomera
02-23-2008, 12:01 PM
You think Kevin Jones is deserving of the franchise tag? I just can't see it.

Tag Roy, not KJ.

I am still holding out hope that we can sign Michael Turner.

And no, Pat Sims is not worthy of #15. Not even close, IMO.

Addict
02-23-2008, 12:35 PM
I vote RB. That way we can trade KJ, Shaun and Roy (always injured, dead weight and best value) and maybe start building something from the ground.

Hell, call me a radical.

TacticaLion
02-23-2008, 12:45 PM
You think Kevin Jones is deserving of the franchise tag? I just can't see it.

Tag Roy, not KJ.

I am still holding out hope that we can sign Michael Turner.

And no, Pat Sims is not worthy of #15. Not even close, IMO.I was suggesting that, if we trade Roy this offseason, we can tag KJ next offseason. With a great season next year, he could be worth it.
Hell, call me a radical.Radical.

Xiomera
02-23-2008, 01:21 PM
I was suggesting that, if we trade Roy this offseason, we can tag KJ next offseason. With a great season next year, he could be worth it.
Radical.

Why not keep Roy and tag him? KJ is very unlikely to have a big year.

Xiomera
02-23-2008, 01:24 PM
I vote RB. That way we can trade KJ, Shaun and Roy (always injured, dead weight and best value) and maybe start building something from the ground.

Hell, call me a radical.

The sad thing is that I agree. We are not on our way to contending. We need to blow this team up and start again. I know we've been rebuilding for what seems like forever, but any progress we make this year will be destroyed when KJ and Roy and Rogers are all gone the year after.

It's one step forward and three steps back.

Seriously, how many guys on our entire team are worth building around?

Calvin, Ernie, Alexander, maybe Bullocks, Redding, White, maybe Stanton . . . anyone else at all? Does Hanson count? haha

Blow it up. Trade everyone. Accumulate picks. And get a real QB, because Kitna is only good enough of getting us to the playoffs. He isn't capable of getting us a playoff win, however. So what is the point then? You play to win Super Bowls.

TacticaLion
02-23-2008, 01:31 PM
Why not keep Roy and tag him? KJ is very unlikely to have a big year.Roy is worth more than KJ is, so I'd rather trade Roy for a 1st-2nd round pick than wait and watch them both leave over the next few years.

Why is KJ unlikely to have a big year? He's a great runner and was hardly given carries under Martz. I think he could thrive in a balanced offense.

TacticaLion
02-23-2008, 01:39 PM
I'm also completely against the thought of "trading everything and starting over". Look at Cleveland... they play in one of the hardest divisions in the NFL and were only a solid QB (and RB) away from finishing with 10 wins. The OLine isn't bad, the receivers are great and we've got prospects at positions of need. I want to see Stanton get a shot... I want to see if IAF can play... I want to see the team after a solid offseason.

The Lions are closer than most give them credit for. Rebuilding would be horrible for the organization.

Xiomera
02-23-2008, 02:08 PM
I'm also completely against the thought of "trading everything and starting over". Look at Cleveland... they play in one of the hardest divisions in the NFL and were only a solid QB (and RB) away from finishing with 10 wins. The OLine isn't bad, the receivers are great and we've got prospects at positions of need. I want to see Stanton get a shot... I want to see if IAF can play... I want to see the team after a solid offseason.

The Lions are closer than most give them credit for. Rebuilding would be horrible for the organization.

The O-Line IS bad. We all assume things will be better without Martz here, but how do we know? And we don't have a RT. Or a LT, since you can argue that Backus shouldn't be playing it.

And how are we close? What exactly is our teams strength? We're good at blowing the close games right at the end. We're good at turning the ball over. We're good at making bad coaching decisions like challenging the wrong plays. How are we close?

TacticaLion
02-23-2008, 02:58 PM
The O-Line IS bad. We all assume things will be better without Martz here, but how do we know? And we don't have a RT. Or a LT, since you can argue that Backus shouldn't be playing it.

And how are we close? What exactly is our teams strength? We're good at blowing the close games right at the end. We're good at turning the ball over. We're good at making bad coaching decisions like challenging the wrong plays. How are we close?Backus-Mulitalo-Raiola-Peterman-Woody is not a bad OLine in the NFL. Fans look at sack totals and come to conclusions about an OLine... you have to look past sacks. The offense was thrown under the bus time and time again. The Martz offense is an offense that takes a long time to develop. Couple that with the complete lack of offensive balance and the fact that we played catch-up quite a bit in 2007 and you should be able to see what the problems were.

The Lions ran the ball the fewest times in the NFL... and passed 4th most. When a defense knows that an offense is going to pass every play, they can game plan against it. That's what happened to us last year.

Without Martz and with a more balanced offense, the OLine will look much better next year. The coaches feel the same way: the OLine wasn't the problem. "False Start" Foster wont be starting for 12 games and Woody is a solid RT. Backus-Mulitalo-Raiola-Peterman will be the starters, with Woody at RT (if he's resigned).

How are we close? We went 7-9 with a horrible offensive game plan and a below-average defense. Balance the offense and add some talent to defense and this team could easily compete in the NFC.

Crickett
02-23-2008, 03:10 PM
Backus-Mulitalo-Raiola-Peterman-Woody is not a bad OLine in the NFL. Fans look at sack totals and come to conclusions about an OLine... you have to look past sacks. The offense was thrown under the bus time and time again. The Martz offense is an offense that takes a long time to develop. Couple that with the complete lack of offensive balance and the fact that we played catch-up quite a bit in 2007 and you should be able to see what the problems were.

The Lions ran the ball the fewest times in the NFL... and passed 4th most. When a defense knows that an offense is going to pass every play, they can game plan against it. That's what happened to us last year.

As I recall, the Lions couldn't run the ball either. And a lot of that was because of poor run blocking by the Lions OL. One of the reasons I'm a fan of Kevin Jones is his willingness to fight for every yard, every inch, every millimeter. But too often he had to fight for that yard, that inch, that millimeter just to get back to the line of scrimmage. Even more damning if as you say, the opposing defense is focusing on defending the pass.

So if your OL can't pass protect (as seen by the sack total) and your OL can't run block..... yeah, thats pretty conclusive evidence that your offensive line sucks.

Xiomera
02-23-2008, 03:16 PM
Backus-Mulitalo-Raiola-Peterman-Woody is not a bad OLine in the NFL. Fans look at sack totals and come to conclusions about an OLine... you have to look past sacks. The offense was thrown under the bus time and time again. The Martz offense is an offense that takes a long time to develop. Couple that with the complete lack of offensive balance and the fact that we played catch-up quite a bit in 2007 and you should be able to see what the problems were.

The Lions ran the ball the fewest times in the NFL... and passed 4th most. When a defense knows that an offense is going to pass every play, they can game plan against it. That's what happened to us last year.

Without Martz and with a more balanced offense, the OLine will look much better next year. The coaches feel the same way: the OLine wasn't the problem. "False Start" Foster wont be starting for 12 games and Woody is a solid RT. Backus-Mulitalo-Raiola-Peterman will be the starters, with Woody at RT (if he's resigned).

How are we close? We went 7-9 with a horrible offensive game plan and a below-average defense. Balance the offense and add some talent to defense and this team could easily compete in the NFC.

You think I am an average fan who doesn't look beyond the statistics? I know damn well that we passed too much and ran too little, but it wasn't all about Martz's play calling. If we could actually run the ball we, would have. But we couldn't, so Martz said screw it.

We went 7-9 by beating up on the bad teams on our schedule. We lucked into most of our wins. We didn't win any of them but Denver very convincingly. We were atrocious to like a third of the games we played. Not bad . . . just plain atrocious.

And our division is not gonna be as weak next year.

WMD
02-23-2008, 04:31 PM
I'm for a DE in Round 1. Pass Rush, probably the most important part of a Tampa 2 Defense.. We need it.

TacticaLion
02-23-2008, 06:22 PM
As I recall, the Lions couldn't run the ball either. And a lot of that was because of poor run blocking by the Lions OL. One of the reasons I'm a fan of Kevin Jones is his willingness to fight for every yard, every inch, every millimeter. But too often he had to fight for that yard, that inch, that millimeter just to get back to the line of scrimmage. Even more damning if as you say, the opposing defense is focusing on defending the pass.

So if your OL can't pass protect (as seen by the sack total) and your OL can't run block..... yeah, thats pretty conclusive evidence that your offensive line sucks.Yeah... nope. I'll go ahead and throw the ******** flag.

The Lions had a 4.0 YPC average in 2007... which puts them T-15th in the NFL. T-15th. They only ran the ball 324 times in 2007... which is last in the NFL. Not running the ball and not being able to run the ball are two very different things. Good effort, though...

You know what? Lets play your silly game. You seem to think that, because we didn't have a lot of rushing yards, we "couldn't run the ball"... and, in turn, our offensive line "sucked". OK. We were 9th in the NFL in passing yards in 2007. Hmm... 9th. We had a good amount of passing yards... so we could pass... so, in turn, our offensive line must've been "good", right?

The truth is (and even you should be able to see this), there's more to it than overall yards. We had the 4th fewest offensive plays from scrimmage, yet averaged 5.4 yards per play (15th in the NFL).

If yards tell the story, as you seem to think they do, what story can you come up with now? Once again, good effort.

The games that we played well in were the games that we ran the ball well. The second Bears game? The Cowboys game? We looked like a great football team... and it's all because we ran the ball. Running the ball takes pressure off the offensive line, the quarterback and the defense.
You think I am an average fan who doesn't look beyond the statistics? I know damn well that we passed too much and ran too little, but it wasn't all about Martz's play calling. If we could actually run the ball we, would have. But we couldn't, so Martz said screw it.

We went 7-9 by beating up on the bad teams on our schedule. We lucked into most of our wins. We didn't win any of them but Denver very convincingly. We were atrocious to like a third of the games we played. Not bad . . . just plain atrocious.

And our division is not gonna be as weak next year.When did I call you an "average fan"?

Couldn't run the ball, so Martz said "screw it"? Huh? There were games when we hardly ran the ball. Stats:

Eagles - 8 Rushing Plays
Cardinals - 8 Rushing Plays
Giants - 11 Rushing Plays
Vikings - 7 Rushing Plays
Chargers - 9 Rushing Plays

Wow... 5 games where we ran the ball 11 plays or less. Man... that's really giving it a chance. Considering we averaged 4.0 YPC (15th in the NFL), I'd say that Martz gave up long before he should have.

Oh... so we can discredit the games we won because of our opponent (or that we "hardly won"), but ignore the games we lost that were close. Arizona - close game. Giants - close game. Cowboys - close game.

Go ahead. Look at the 7-9 record and think that it should've been worse. I'll look at the record and know that, with a fumble recovery against the Cowboys and a late drive against the Giants, we would've been in the playoffs. The NFL is a game of inches, and we were inches away from playing in the post season.

Gay Ork Wang
02-23-2008, 06:25 PM
U know its easier to get a higher YPC if u run less...

TacticaLion
02-23-2008, 06:28 PM
U know its easier to get a higher YPC if u run less...Wait... really?

The Jags ran the ball 522 times (2nd in the NFL) and averaged a 4.6 YPC (T-3rd in the NFL). Vikings? 6th in rushing attempts and 1st in YPC. Giants? 8th in rushing attempts and T-3rd in YPC.

Missing the logic in your post...

Regardless, the argument was that the Lions "couldn't run the ball". They could... they just hardly ran the ball.

Gay Ork Wang
02-23-2008, 06:31 PM
never said sth about the total rushing yards.
i just said that because u were quite proud of the T-15th although ur team ran the ball like 324 times.
btw not every time that leads the league in rushing leads the league in carries.

bearsfan_51
02-23-2008, 06:35 PM
Tactica's been back for like 4 hours and is already trying to get himself banned...

TacticaLion
02-23-2008, 06:41 PM
never said sth about the total rushing yards.
i just said that because u were quite proud of the T-15th although ur team ran the ball like 324 times.
btw not every time that leads the league in rushing leads the league in carries.If you rarely run the ball... but, when you do, you have success... you can run the ball, you just don't run the ball. I don't care if the average may have fallen with more rushing attempts... that's a pointless argument without factual proof. Instead, I'll look at the numbers: 32nd in rushing attempts, T-15th in YPC.


Tactica's been back for like 4 hours and is already trying to get himself banned...Trying to get myself banned? I'm defending my perspective. I haven't personally attacked anyone or said anything derogatory.

Yeah, I know... some Lions' fans want me banned as well. That's OK. I guess I'm old school... I think it's reasonable to have an opinion on an internet forum.

Jagonsucker
02-23-2008, 11:08 PM
i voted for OT...you guys fail to realize without a good O-line..this team will go no where. We need to get either Otah or Clady with the 1st. then 2nd round go CB..3rd round D-line or perhaps another CB. Address MLB (Al Wilson) and RB (Mike Turner or Foster) in FA. Also if we do end up trading Rogers I'd like to see us get a 2nd a 3rd rounder.

JPLUFF
02-23-2008, 11:13 PM
If we use a first on any of those positions, we'd be upgrading so I'm not gonna vote because we're a better team regardless. I'm leaning towards CB even though I know it'd be a waste using such a high pick on a cover 2 CB, but with all the press Brandon Flowers is getting recently, I'd hate for us to pass on him and see him taken by a team in the late first, really early 2nd.

wingboy2999
02-24-2008, 07:48 PM
I'll go OT/RB/DE in no particular order. I don't think anyone will be there at 15 for us at DE. So that probably leaves OT/RB. Depends on what we want.