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toonsterwu
03-02-2008, 01:26 AM
Scenario S-1

Quick 1-round mock. Itís been awhile since I did my own. Not sure if Iíll go through the rest anytime soon, as thereís a lot of FA left to shake things out. Maybe.

Trades

Dallas Cowboys get the 6th overall
New York Jets get the 22nd, 62nd (61st), and 93rd (92nd) overall plus Bobby Carpenter

Carolina Panthers get the 7th overall
New England Patriots get the 13th and 68th (67th) overall, plus a 2009 3rd rounder

Seattle Seahawks get the 12th overall
Denver Broncos get the 25th and 56th (55th) overall, plus a 2009 3rd rounder

Jacksonville Jaguars get the 19th overall
Philadelphia Eagles get the 26th and 90th (89th) overall

Baltimore Ravens get the 28th overall
Dallas Cowboys get the 39th (38th) overall and a 2009 3rd rounder

1. Miami Ė QB Matt Ryan, Boston College

Itís still the same three options. Jake Long, Chris Long, or Matt Ryan. I donít see a trade materializing, with the only possible options, IMO, being Dallas (unlikely) or Atlanta (doubtful, as they like their picks). Thus, a pick. Parcells taking an OL this early in a deep OL class? Donít buy it. Doesnít seem like him. Chris Long or Matt Ryan? The lean is to Matt Ryan for now.

2. St. Louis Rams Ė DE/OLB Chris Long, Virginia

Which Long? The nodís always been to Jake, with the assumption that Chris was off. If here, I think they go Chris. He has the right attitude. He has the skillset they need as a pass rushing DE that can stand up as well. Donít see them dealing.

3. Atlanta Falcons Ė DT Glenn Dorsey, LSU

Jake Long or Glenn Dorsey is the thought. If itís the Patriots way, the lean is to filling out the OL from this deep class with a 2nd. Provided Dorsey is healthy, the guess is they start to rebuild the defense. If heís not healthy, then the nod goes to Jake Long.

4. Oakland Raiders Ė DE/OLB Vernon Gholston, the Ohio State

Sedrick Ellis, Jake Long, Vernon Gholston, or Darren McFadden? Nod goes towards shoring up the defense for now with the addition of the physical specimen that is Vernon Gholston.

5. Kansas City Chiefs Ė OT Jake Long, Michigan

Their ideal scenario Ö just hoping heís a LT. Nothing much else to say.

6. Dallas Cowboys f/ NY Jets Ė RB Darren McFadden, Arkansas

Jerry doesnít want to trade up to 1. 6? I can see him get tempted in draft, particularly if he can do it without giving up both firsts. Jets are better off dealing down, unless they absolutely love Sedrick Ellis here. Should they force both firsts? My belief is no, as the value from the late first-late 2nd is fairly close, and the additional extra pick could help.

7. Carolina f/ San Francisco via NE Ė DT Sedrick Ellis, USC

I think the Patriots will look to deal down anyways, but with Gholston gone, there isnít anyone that is a justifiable pick for them at 7th overall. I debated two teams in a move Ė the Saints and the Panthers. The feeling here is that the drop from 10-13 isnít that much, and the Panthers, with an extra pick, and in a win now mode, could be more aggressive. The Patriots might like the idea of a future as well. What do the Panthers look here? OT comes to mind. DT could be a possibility as well. DE could be a thought. With talks of Gross possibly at LT, and with the deep OT class, Iím looking DL here. Ellis could give them an interior force that Kemoeatu and Lewis arenít. Their pass rush could use help.

8. Baltimore Ravens Ė CB Leodis McKelvin, Troy

They may look deal, but Iím not sure who trades up here. As a result, I make a pick, and with no QB value here, my contemplations, position wise, are CB/OT, with BPA kept in mind. Leodis McKelvin could very well be BPA and fill a need.

9. Cincinnati Bengals Ė OLB/DE Derrick Harvey, Florida

Theyíve had Harvey on their minds for awhile. I like the Merling fit better, a guy that can play as a 4-3 end, 4-3 DT, 3-4 DE, and occasionally drop into coverage. That said, they could use the pass rush help, and Harvey is the better bet.

10. New Orleans Saints Ė OT Ryan Clady, Boise State

They may seek a deal, but Iíve got a hard time selling myself on who moves up here unless someone is in love with a player. As such, I make a pick, and the doorís more wide open than anyone might think. Iím looking DL, LB, DB, OT, RB. While corner is tempting, the nod goes to OL value. Brown goes to RT.

11. Buffalo Bills Ė DE Quentin Groves, Auburn

This isnít really an ideal spot for them, and they could look to deal down after the Stroud deal. That said, they still have a pick in the 3rd. Where to? CB? DE? WR? TE? Another end was once a reach at 11 for a Tampa 2 team.

12. Seattle Seahawks f/ Denver Broncos Ė RB Rashard Mendenhall, Illionois

I could see Denver get intrigued by a deal. Could be wrong, but the options here point to Balmer, Rivers, OL, and I can see them not getting terribly excited with any of them. With Seattle looking as if theyíll land their TE, the next step may be to look to fill another offensive hole aggressively. Donít rule out OT here. That said, a young runner is needed to replace Shaun.

13. New England Patriots f/ Carolina Panthers Ė CB Aqib Talib, Kansas

They could look Keith Rivers at ILB here, but the guess is that they go Talib, whose size, instincts, and ball skills could prove to be a great fit.

14. Chicago Bears Ė OT Chris Williams, Vanderbilt

Otah and Williams are both here. I prefer Otah, but the rumors have hinted that Williams is someone we are intrigued with, so I lean that way.

15. Detroit Lions Ė RB Jonathan Stewart, Oregon

DL value is off, so the look is to a lead runner.

16. Arizona Cardinals Ė CB Mike Jenkins, South Florida

Donít count out Otah or Merling, but CB comes to mind here with Rolle at FS.

17. Minnesota Vikings Ė OL Jeff Otah, Pittsburgh

Theyíve addressed S and WR. What now? DL? OL? Merling tempts as a possible strongside end that can backup the DTís with Spencer Johnson gone now. That said, the nod goes to Jeff Otah, who is still surprisingly around, and a guy who could be the number 2 OT on plenty of boards. He can challenge G or T.

18. Houston Texans Ė LB Keith Rivers, USC

I want to look for a deal here, but Iím not sure which team will want to deal up. Thus, I am left with an intriguing decision Ė address DB or take the draftís top LB. Secondary seems a bit of a reach here, and thus, I lean LB to put Rivers next to Demeco.

19. Jacksonville Jaguars f/ Philadelphia Eagles Ė DE Phillip Merling, Clemson

Jacksonville still has Buffaloís 3rd rounder (73rd (72nd)), so I could see them get aggressive. I could see the Eagles look Merling, but after signing Clemons, they are 4 deep. Who else here? WR? Eh. OT? Valueís off unless they go Albert, which I donít see. DB? Who? DRC? Eh. Merling offers a versatile that can help at end and go inside as well.

20. Tampa Bay Buccaneers Ė WR Devin Thomas, Michigan State

Iím not sure I really like the options here. I pondered a trade, but didnít see any that I was sold on. Thus, I make a pick. Only defensive spot I could somewhat see would be CB, and Iím not sold on them going this high for CB. Itís something to store in the mind, though. RB/WR/QB is where Iím looking. I could see Chucky intrigued with Chris Johnson even with Michael Bennett. But I pass, and thus, itís a surprise QB nod or a WR. I lean to the raw Devin Thomasí size and deep speed as a possible temptation for Chucky.

21. Washington Redskins Ė DB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Tennessee State

Thereís a lot of OL talk. Until they make an OL move, Iíve got a hard time mocking Branden Albert here to be a backup. So, what now? CB? WR? DE? I lean against DE, as the value is lacking. Donít be surprised with a darkhorse LB look. CB or WR? DRC or Kelly/Sweed? The lean goes to DRC. Still not sold on WR just yet. A veteran WR could be a higher priority target. A rookie? Is that player going to be anything more than option 3 or 4? Furthermore, the value differentiation in the 2nd/3rd at WR, from the first, isnít much.

22. New York Jets f/ Dallas Cowboys Ė DL Kentwan Balmer, UNC

Trading down makes sense unless they love Sedrick Ellis. What here? Another trade is a thought, but with their deck replenished, I make a pick. OL is a possibility, with Albert sliding in at RG perhaps, or even challenging at RT. Donít like the RB options. WR/TE are thoughts. CB? In the mind. Any LBís? Connor perhaps? In the end, I go with the expected and take Balmer to develop as a 3-4 DE. With Jenkins and Balmer, theyíve suddenly gotten much bigger up front.

23. Pittsburgh Steelers Ė OL Branden Albert, Virginia

So, Iím buying into the pick now. That said, it isnít something they absolutely have to pursue. There are other routes. A WR here is definitely a thought. CB could be an option. But their OL was a concern last year, and if they can keep Starks, add Albert, suddenly, the OL is looking good provided it stays healthy.

24. Tennessee Titans Ė WR Limas Sweed, Texas

There isnít any DL value here, which is the only position I could see them pursuing this high defensively. Thus, I go offense, where OL could get a look. That said, they need WR/TE help. The nod goes to the expected, Limas Sweed, provided his medicals are good.

25. Denver Broncos f/ Seattle Seahawks Ė OT Sam Baker, USC

I wouldnít be stunned if they looked RB. If Chris Johnson can get to 205ish by his pro day, as Chris suggests, this could be more tempting than some think. That said, Iím not expecting it as of now. OL could get a look here. Malcolm Kelly may be a thought. Dan Connor is a possibility. A DT nab might not be the worst idea. S is a long thought.. Tough decision. Perhaps in a mild surprise, I go with Sam Baker here for the OT fit.

26. Philadelphia Eagles f/ Jacksonville Jaguars Ė S Kenny Phillips, the U

And the streak continues. While OT was a long thought, I pass on that. WR can wait. I look defensive secondary as a result, and Phillips could be the young safety theyíve been searching for.

27. San Diego Chargers Ė DB Reggie Smith, Oklahoma

I want to the pull the trigger on a trade, but I just canít for some reason. Somethingís in my vision, but in the end, I decide to make a pick, and with McCree out, I go with Reggie Smith here as a potential guy to step in right away. Or he could provide depth at CB.

28. Baltimore Ravens f/ Dallas Cowboys Ė QB Joe Flacco, Delaware

I firmly believe that a 2nd QB will go round 1. Who deals up? Baltimore or Atlanta come to mind, considering their early 2nd round picks. The nod goes to Baltimore. It could be another player, but for now, Iím putting Flacco in there as heís my number 2 QB. I think Dallas would be willing to drop a few spots and take a future, particularly if they are active on the market. Iíll have to rethink if I should pull this trigger at 27 instead.

29. San Francisco 49ers f/ Indianapolis Colts Ė ILB Dan Connor, Penn State

It isnít a great spot for them to be in. Who? An ILB like Connor could be a thought. DB? Donít see it. DL could use more looks. A rush backer could be an idea. OL could be a thought. WR fit would be nice. After thinning through as a result of fit and value, Iím looking at ILB/OLB/OL/WR. I lean against WR as the value in the early 2nd and even early 3rd shouldnít be too different. They have options at OL, with Staley at LT, Baas at guard being the two young centerpieces, with Snyder at guard or tackle, and others still there. Thus, ILB or OLB. I donít like this.

30. Green Bay Packers Ė OLB/DE Cliff Avril, Purdue

CB is definitely an area of focus. More OL help wouldnít hurt (although I really like the Joe Toledo signing). Pass rushing depth could be addressed (of course, they could target Jason Taylor and nullify this need). A LB to challenge Poppinga could be a thought. Other positions could get looks based on BPA/future, as they have some depth in place. I looked CB first, but didnít like what I saw. Then I looked OL. Eh. They already have kids. Maybe, but for now, I pass. Any BPA? WR? Probably not going that route. So, for now, I decide to come a bit out of LF. Avril can challenge Poppinga at SAM, while also providing pass rushing depth. Think of how Colvin was utilized while he was in Chicago.

31. New England Patriots (forfeited)

32. New York Giants Ė LB Jerod Mayo, Tennessee

I could see them look OL. I wouldnít rule out DT. LB? Definitely a possibility on the menu. CB? Another strong option. S? An area of concern. So? S and CB values are better later. OL/LB/DT? Iím leaning Ö Jerod Mayo post combine. I am awfully tempted with a surprise DT move. It could be Erin Henderson as an option, or even an Xavier Adibi. A lot of possibilities in short.

litlharsh
03-02-2008, 01:33 AM
I think the value is too great and Sharper's declining for the Vikings to pass up Phillips.

Vikes99ej
03-02-2008, 01:35 AM
I like the Otah pick, especially with the uncertainty of McKinnie.

Yung Flippa
03-02-2008, 01:38 AM
Good Houston pick. Good Baltimore pick and I highly doubt that we would trade back into the first round, just for Joe Flacco. If we want him that bad, we can easily take him in the 2nd Round.

toonsterwu
03-02-2008, 01:39 AM
I think the value is too great and Sharper's declining for the Vikings to pass up Phillips.

The value is too great? Most people have Phillips as a borderline first rounder, which Phillips himself basically acknowledged as well (as he noted something along the lines of he think he's moved into the first round). Furthermore, unless Sharper gets benched, where do you play Phillips, with Madieu Williams set at the other safety spot.

toonsterwu
03-02-2008, 01:41 AM
Good Houston pick. Good Baltimore pick and I highly doubt that we would trade back into the first round, just for Joe Flacco. If we want him that bad, we can easily take him in the 2nd Round.

I'm not sure Joe Flacco will be there in the 2nd at your pick, but it's possible. There's even some outside buzz of mid-first. That said, you can slide another QB in there. As of now, my feeling is that Ozzie won't sit still on QB. He won't take what's left, and will make a move up, if he doesn't land one in the first. The Ravens are also poorly positioned, with Miami and Atlanta ahead, and one of them likely looking QB early 2nd.

A lot of time to go, though. Who knows, Brohm may rise. Maybe it's Henne.

litlharsh
03-02-2008, 01:42 AM
Sharper hasn't been that great himself.

I always thought Phillips was a consensus to go top 15 and it would be a gift to have him fall to the Vikings. Guess I was wrong lol.

roidrunner
03-02-2008, 02:00 AM
interesting packers pick... i really dont know what to say about it. it is rather left field.

essential
03-02-2008, 02:05 AM
11. Buffalo Bills – DE Quentin Groves, Auburn

This isn’t really an ideal spot for them, and they could look to deal down after the Stroud deal. That said, they still have a pick in the 3rd. Where to? CB? DE? WR? TE? Another end was once a reach at 11 for a Tampa 2 team.

i love the pick toonster, and i can say i'll probably be one of the few buffalo fans who do. everyone seems to be fixated on a WR in the first, and it's just not going to happen. although i hope we can trade down and take him, he is the player i want in the first. we still have one second and one third, so we are in good shape. the value for us at #11 is terrible, we are going to have to end up reaching on someone unless we can trade down, which is the ideal scenerio.

toonsterwu
03-02-2008, 02:15 AM
interesting packers pick... i really dont know what to say about it. it is rather left field.

If there was a corner that stood out there, I would lean that direction. But there isn't. And more interior OL youth doesn't seem necessary. Youth is there. Now, maybe they fall for someone like a Carl Nicks, a big bodied guy that moves well, and decide to groom him at tackle. It's possible. But with nothing looking too good there at those spots, I went with Avril, who could be BPA. He fits the need at LB in that, he's played LB before, he's big enough to play SAM, and he's more athletic than Poppinga. And you can slide Avril down to end in passing situations. Just a thought.

roidrunner
03-02-2008, 02:19 AM
what about cason or talib?? where do you have them ranked?

toonsterwu
03-02-2008, 02:19 AM
i love the pick toonster, and i can say i'll probably be one of the few buffalo fans who do. everyone seems to be fixated on a WR in the first, and it's just not going to happen. although i hope we can trade down and take him, he is the player i want in the first. we still have one second and one third, so we are in good shape. the value for us at #11 is terrible, we are going to have to end up reaching on someone unless we can trade down, which is the ideal scenerio.

If Derrick Harvey is there at 11, that would be my first nod (in terms of DE's). For Buffalo, it just isn't a great situation. If you sign a Bryant Johnson, the chances of going WR drop dramatically. Beyond that, WR value is quite iffy, and even if you project some guys doing well, the chances of the value being at 11 being worthwhile? seems slim. The DT moves negate that, and TE lacks value. You assume that Mitchell is given a starting job, although nothing should be assumed. That leaves DE/DB there, which is why I end up on Groves. He'll get time to develop, as Kelsay isn't going anywhere this year. There is also cover 2 depth for DB's later. That said, Aqib Talib was a superbly long thought there. I'm just not sure what other options exist.

The one darkhorse thought that passed my mind was OL.

toonsterwu
03-02-2008, 02:20 AM
what about cason or talib?? where do you have them ranked?

Unless I'm mistaken, I had Talib come off the board at 13. I have Talib as a first rounder.

Cason was a thought there, but I've still got him more as a 2nd.

roidrunner
03-02-2008, 02:21 AM
yea your right. i guess i missed talib. what about godfrey from Iowa?

roidrunner
03-02-2008, 02:22 AM
or Flowers from VT?

Geo
03-02-2008, 02:29 AM
I'm not sure I see Seattle trading up for a runningback, when they could potentially stay where they are and get the best back on the board, be it Chris Johnson if none of the big three are remaining. Granted, if they are finished with Shaun Alexander as rumored, having a prospect like Mendenhall to succeed him and surpass him as a three-down back would be tempting.

Also, assuming Jason Taylor is traded either this offseason or next - a very reasonable assumption - then who plays ROLB for the Dolphins? Neither Porter nor Pace if he is signed really fits that bill.

defensiveback23
03-02-2008, 02:58 AM
Missing out on Phillips stings a little but I would be ecstatic with Reggie Smith. I think a trade down is a very high possibility since depth is the only real need at the moment. Just out of curiosity, what trade were you considering?

Paranoidmoonduck
03-02-2008, 03:37 AM
The Avril pick is an interesting one, but is it really the route Green Bay goes? Maybe I've not seen enough of Avril, but he always struck me as a fairly specialized player.

The Gholston pick is fairly realistic, I just dislike it greatly as a Raider fan.

Crazy_Chris
03-02-2008, 04:20 AM
Jeff Otah is alright but I would rather take Merling over him.

JagHombre22
03-02-2008, 04:23 AM
I don't see the reasoning trading up to just 19....if we're going to trade up, which we will...I'm assuming it will be top 15...

but Merling is a good pick...

Jakey
03-02-2008, 04:41 AM
then who plays ROLB for the Dolphins? Neither Porter nor Pace if he is signed really fits that bill.

Porter played 8 years at ROLB for the Steelers...he was actually playing out of position last year at LOLB. But then again, i am not convinced that Porter will be in Miami for much longer anyways. So they could still need a replacement.

P.S. It would be a good Steelers pick...but im still not convinced they will take a guard in round 1. I think they are more likely to go OT, or BPA. Maybe a Kentwan Balmer, DRC, Limas Sweed etc etc.

Yatta!
03-02-2008, 05:55 AM
This is worst case scenario for Green Bay. I'm not a great fan of Avril and doubt that he would contribute much at all to begin with. CB is obviously our priority and I would rather have Lee, Cason or Flowers at that spot. Otherwise we could take BPA with our day 1 picks but I don't think that Avril would be in our plans with that strategy either.

nvot9
03-02-2008, 08:17 AM
I like that trade value for the Jets. My point still stands, that I'd want them to stay in the top 15, simply for value, but the more I think about it, the more I realize what would be the point of the trade then, noone they like at 6 would still be there at 15 and no one they like at 15 won't be there at 22. I think I'd prefer Avril to Balmer, simply because if we don't trade him, Dewayne would shift over to 3-4 DE (although I believe we will trade him). Regardless, i'd prolly like Avril more, maybe we get Marcus Spears instead of Bobby Carpenter then. The depth is more present at 3-4 DE than it is at 3-4 OLB in this draft I feel. Overall I like it, considering the moves they've made thus far, I'm actually pushing for this kinda trade to happen because I don't want them to feel obligated to take McFadden but I do want them to try to stockpile since we have no one huge need but a bunch of positions that could be upgraded.

I'd think Kenny Phillips would be a huge possibility in that position as well....?

drmoyer421
03-02-2008, 08:58 AM
With Buffalo spending a TON of money last year on Schobel and Kelsy at DE. I doubt they draft a DE that high in the draft.

My guess right now after knowing that they may have Bryant Johnson on thier radar in free agency is that the Bills will likely take a Top CB with the 11.

I think Talib fits nicely in a Bills uni!

21ST
03-02-2008, 09:41 AM
I wouldn't be too upset with that pick i guess.

Thunder&Lightning
03-02-2008, 09:47 AM
nice chargers pick.

Redskins4Bowl26
03-02-2008, 09:55 AM
Horrible redskins pick.

BeerBaron
03-02-2008, 10:32 AM
good "lean" for the bears to take williams over otah. im starting to think otah is a RT only kind of guy while williams has a lot of LT potential. not bad

Turtlepower
03-02-2008, 10:53 AM
I would prefer reaching for secondary help in Porter, Lee, or even DaJaun Morgan, but Mayo is a solid prospect and had a nice combine. I've always been under the impression that drafting a LB in the first should only be done if it is a glaring need and I just don't see it as a need above CB or S even with the losses in FA.

Go_Eagles77
03-02-2008, 11:11 AM
I would be pretty happy with that eagles pick.

hugegmenfan
03-02-2008, 11:14 AM
pretty bad giants pick

thebow305
03-02-2008, 12:14 PM
No, the lean is to Flacco right now. Not Ryan. A far as Qb's go. So give us Chris Long there at #1.

Bills2083
03-02-2008, 12:18 PM
I'd rather go with Talib there.
CB is a greater need than DE, IMO.

princefielder28
03-02-2008, 12:24 PM
Avril had one hell of a combine and it propelled his stock but not to first round level and plus I don't think it's a good fit for Green Bay. Avril belongs in a 3-4.

msealy2
03-02-2008, 12:28 PM
I like the Otah pick, can start him at RT or if McKinnie is suspended for a few games he could play some LT.

Jay
03-02-2008, 12:39 PM
Would have loved to see what the Pats would have done later on. That is a pretty good situation. I like it a lot.

pickles
03-02-2008, 12:41 PM
Very bad 49ers pick, why would we draft an ILB?

Williams, Otah, Baker have been taken, so I would look to grab Malcolm Kelly.

toonsterwu
03-02-2008, 12:51 PM
yea your right. i guess i missed talib. what about godfrey from Iowa?

For me, my guess right now is that Godfrey is more of a 2/3.

toonsterwu
03-02-2008, 12:51 PM
or Flowers from VT?

Not sure he has the man cover ability that would get the Packers attention, but that's me.

skinzzfan25
03-02-2008, 12:53 PM
I love the DRC pick.

He's filled with potential, and would fit nicely into our scheme with Landry helping over top.

It's also been reported that he worked with Darrell Green during/before his senior season, and his father is friends with Darrell.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-nflcombine&prov=ap&type=lgns

Anything that Green touches turns to gold, ask Champ Bailey.

toonsterwu
03-02-2008, 12:53 PM
I'm not sure I see Seattle trading up for a runningback, when they could potentially stay where they are and get the best back on the board, be it Chris Johnson if none of the big three are remaining. Granted, if they are finished with Shaun Alexander as rumored, having a prospect like Mendenhall to succeed him and surpass him as a three-down back would be tempting.

Also, assuming Jason Taylor is traded either this offseason or next - a very reasonable assumption - then who plays ROLB for the Dolphins? Neither Porter nor Pace if he is signed really fits that bill.

Beyond the buzz about them moving up for a RB, there has also been a lot of talk on Chris Johnson, which I could see. The question I have to ask is what role Johnson fits into next year, with Morris still there. Is it a necessary move? A move for Stewart or Mendenhall gives you a completely different look than Morris, allowing you to power run it still. Johnson offers a faster, but similar, Morris in many respects, and by most accounts, they'd like to get back to the power run. It is possible. Another possibility is that they don't deal up unless a RB comes a bit closer to them (that is, they wait a few more picks and take whoever is left).

toonsterwu
03-02-2008, 12:55 PM
Missing out on Phillips stings a little but I would be ecstatic with Reggie Smith. I think a trade down is a very high possibility since depth is the only real need at the moment. Just out of curiosity, what trade were you considering?

It would've been a QB trade.

Btw, if I'm a Chargers fan, I prefer Smith over Phillips in some respects, due to Smith in coverage.

toonsterwu
03-02-2008, 12:56 PM
The Avril pick is an interesting one, but is it really the route Green Bay goes? Maybe I've not seen enough of Avril, but he always struck me as a fairly specialized player.

The Gholston pick is fairly realistic, I just dislike it greatly as a Raider fan.

I'm not sure what you mean by specialized. He's played LB before and has dropped back before.

Gholston took a long time. I'm just not that sold on it.

toonsterwu
03-02-2008, 12:57 PM
Jeff Otah is alright but I would rather take Merling over him.

I'll have to rethink that one, as Merling is quite tempting as a 4-3 strongside end that gives depth at DT.

toonsterwu
03-02-2008, 12:57 PM
I don't see the reasoning trading up to just 19....if we're going to trade up, which we will...I'm assuming it will be top 15...

but Merling is a good pick...

That would depend on a team in the top 15 willing to drop that far down. It would also be a much costlier deal, probably requiring the 2nd to be forked over.

toonsterwu
03-02-2008, 01:00 PM
With Buffalo spending a TON of money last year on Schobel and Kelsy at DE. I doubt they draft a DE that high in the draft.

My guess right now after knowing that they may have Bryant Johnson on thier radar in free agency is that the Bills will likely take a Top CB with the 11.

I think Talib fits nicely in a Bills uni!

Talib does fit nicely, and that was a long thought. Nothing is really ideal there for Buffalo. CB isn't a position, for that scheme, that you really have to go with that high a pick. I would note that in 09/10 Kelsay's salary jumps to 3 million/3.7 million, so I'm not necessarily sold Kelsay is there long term if they can find someone better.

toonsterwu
03-02-2008, 01:02 PM
Horrible redskins pick.

Okay. Who do you take instead? My guess is WR, and I could see that. The problem is, Malcolm Kelly (of the big Wr's, he's probably the best fit for the Skins) as a 3rd or 4th receiving option? Is it worth it there?

Furthermore, the Skins secondary looks very flawed. Springs is aging, Macklin and Smoot are solid, but better off as depth. Rogers is coming off injury.

I can't see OL there unless someone gets cut. If someone does, then sure. DE value is off at that point.

toonsterwu
03-02-2008, 01:03 PM
good "lean" for the bears to take williams over otah. im starting to think otah is a RT only kind of guy while williams has a lot of LT potential. not bad

I can make a fair case that Otah might end up being the better LT over Williams, and that Williams may be better off as a RT. Coaching is going to make a big impact.

toonsterwu
03-02-2008, 01:06 PM
I would prefer reaching for secondary help in Porter, Lee, or even DaJaun Morgan, but Mayo is a solid prospect and had a nice combine. I've always been under the impression that drafting a LB in the first should only be done if it is a glaring need and I just don't see it as a need above CB or S even with the losses in FA.

pretty bad giants pick

The problem is, as of now, my gut guess is that none of the DB's are worth it there. Do you reach for a DB? It's possible, so I'll revisit it. But Porter's lack of aggressiveness in tackling makes me wonder on the fit. Lee has always bene more about the possibilities, and there's no indication that he's really moved that high. Morgan would be the guess, but he's probably still a mid-2nd. It is possible that Reese reaches for one of them.

toonsterwu
03-02-2008, 01:08 PM
No, the lean is to Flacco right now. Not Ryan. A far as Qb's go. So give us Chris Long there at #1.

The buzz the last few days seems to suggest Ryan is gaining steam. Of course, he still has a workout to go, and if he has a poor workout, then I'd go back to Long. As a side note, I'm just not sure I see Parcells dealing up for Flacco, and I think Flacco will come off the board before the Fins pick at 32.

toonsterwu
03-02-2008, 01:09 PM
Avril had one hell of a combine and it propelled his stock but not to first round level and plus I don't think it's a good fit for Green Bay. Avril belongs in a 3-4.

I think he went from mid-2nd to late first/early 2nd as a result of the combine. I can see a strong possibility where a team might consider him BPA.

Is Avril better off in a 3-4? Sure. But why does he "belong" in a 3-4? He's dropped into coverage before as a SAM backer (keeping in mind that Poppinga was a former DE once as well). He's athletic enough. He has the size.

toonsterwu
03-02-2008, 01:11 PM
Very bad 49ers pick, why would we draft an ILB?

Williams, Otah, Baker have been taken, so I would look to grab Malcolm Kelly.

My plan B would've been Cliff Avril.

Here's the problem I have with a Kelly pick. It's very possible, which I don't deny. But ... he doesn't really fit for a Mike Martz offense. He doesn't have the quickness in and out that's required for it. So ... will McCloughan make a pick that is an iffy fit? If I went WR, Kelly was a long thought, but I'd be more inclined to go with Desean Jackson for the fit and playmaking ability, as both have similar grades as of now (more early 2nd's).

Turtlepower
03-02-2008, 01:14 PM
The problem is, as of now, my gut guess is that none of the DB's are worth it there. Do you reach for a DB? It's possible, so I'll revisit it. But Porter's lack of aggressiveness in tackling makes me wonder on the fit. Lee has always bene more about the possibilities, and there's no indication that he's really moved that high. Morgan would be the guess, but he's probably still a mid-2nd. It is possible that Reese reaches for one of them.

What about taking a guy like Trevor Laws? I know he is not a need, but he is definitely a guy that fits terrifically into our scheme and someone who can bring depth to our DTs.

toonsterwu
03-02-2008, 01:25 PM
What about taking a guy like Trevor Laws? I know he is not a need, but he is definitely a guy that fits terrifically into our scheme and someone who can bring depth to our DTs.

Oh, I thought long and hard about that one (the whole surprise DT pick comment, as no one has really given DT much thought). I actually like it a lot. Say Kiwanuka moves back to SLB. Let him focus his attention there. Thus, there's a 3 DE rotation of Tuck with Osi and Michael. Laws could get time to grow with Robbins and Coefield ahead. In passing situations, having Osi/Michael/Tuck/Laws as a front 4 could be a nasty foursome. In a year or two, Laws becomes a starter next to Coefield.

Turtlepower
03-02-2008, 01:29 PM
Oh, I thought long and hard about that one (the whole surprise DT pick comment, as no one has really given DT much thought). I actually like it a lot. Say Kiwanuka moves back to SLB. Let him focus his attention there. Thus, there's a 3 DE rotation of Tuck with Osi and Michael. Laws could get time to grow with Robbins and Coefield ahead. In passing situations, having Osi/Michael/Tuck/Laws as a front 4 could be a nasty foursome. In a year or two, Laws becomes a starter next to Coefield.

And thus you have succeeded in mentioning every Giants fan's wet dream.

Looking at what Reese has done in the past couple drafts is that he takes the best players to fit our team rather than go by BPA. That is why we reached on Alford last year and Kiwi the year before (he was in control of the draft then).

LonghornsLegend
03-02-2008, 01:36 PM
Good trade ideas for Dallas, seems realistic, I could see them interested in Carp or Spears who is a great run stopper and not even 25, but as long as the value is on im fine with it...we keep another 1st along with mcfadden which is huge, and im ok with parting with a 2nd and 3rd because those guys may not have as great of an impact, i believe we will do a deal similiar to this if oakland passes him up...


the 2nd trade was nice, i think with our cap space, we trade out of the first with one of the picks for a future 1st nxt year, saves space this year with trying to sign everyone, and we can still have options next year with 2 picks again.

Geo
03-02-2008, 01:38 PM
Oh, I thought long and hard about that one (the whole surprise DT pick comment, as no one has really given DT much thought). I actually like it a lot. Say Kiwanuka moves back to SLB. Let him focus his attention there. Thus, there's a 3 DE rotation of Tuck with Osi and Michael. Laws could get time to grow with Robbins and Coefield ahead. In passing situations, having Osi/Michael/Tuck/Laws as a front 4 could be a nasty foursome. In a year or two, Laws becomes a starter next to Coefield.
Well, the Giants did draft Jay Alford last year who is suited for interior pass rush. Maybe play Laws at NT next to Alford, Coefield didn't look as good in his second year as he did as a rookie. Which, the change in defensive scheme, probably had a good part in.

jaffe28
03-02-2008, 01:58 PM
I love the trade for the Broncos since #12 is a bad spot for their needs, but I think they'd go defense at #25. Either Phillips or Connor would fill a need and be a good value if they dropped back that far.

That said, they do need help at OT.

vidae
03-02-2008, 02:53 PM
Excellent Chiefs pick!

Paranoidmoonduck
03-02-2008, 03:13 PM
I'm not sure what you mean by specialized. He's played LB before and has dropped back before.

I'm not an avid watcher of Boilermaker football, but whenever I saw him drop back Avril always looked less than comfortable. I'm not saying some team won't draft him as a 4-3 linebacker, but I'm a bit surprised that it would be in the first round.

proshoota25
03-02-2008, 03:21 PM
i like the talib pick to the patriots, but not in that spot. we've heard that he is dropping on draft boards due to his 40. if the pats get him, id like to see them get him in the 20-25, and that would be via trade

DiG
03-02-2008, 04:37 PM
i love the redskins pick. nicely done.

toonsterwu
03-02-2008, 06:02 PM
i like the talib pick to the patriots, but not in that spot. we've heard that he is dropping on draft boards due to his 40. if the pats get him, id like to see them get him in the 20-25, and that would be via trade

I haven't gotten the feeling that Talib is tumbling as much as you suggest. No, he was never a great fit for a pure man scheme, although his man skills aren't as bad as some suggest. That said, I don't think the 40 time hurts as much as you (or patriots insider, i think, one of the patriots sites suggested the talib falling to the 20's recently) think. He was expected to be in the high 4.4/low 4.5 range, which he hit.

That said, a long way to go, so let me ask this. Say the Patriots were able to trade from 7 to 13, but weren't able to deal down again. What would you go for there? Rivers was a thought, as he was still on the board. What else?

Nitschke-Hawk
03-02-2008, 07:05 PM
And we shall begin the conversion to a 3-4. It's fantasy of mine!

essential
03-02-2008, 08:53 PM
With Buffalo spending a TON of money last year on Schobel and Kelsy at DE. I doubt they draft a DE that high in the draft.

My guess right now after knowing that they may have Bryant Johnson on thier radar in free agency is that the Bills will likely take a Top CB with the 11.

I think Talib fits nicely in a Bills uni!

moyer, we backed ourselves into a corner with DE. they overpaid both Kelsay and Schobel, and in the NFL your ability to get to the quarterback doesn't go up when you get a bigger contract.

we get no constant pressure from our ends. kelsay is a rotational guy, and schobel is above average, but he is not a stud.

DE is a need, in fact in the tampa-2 it's probably the most important position. it's all about pressure with the front four.

however, i could also see CB the pick at #11 if we can't trade down, but please give us anyone but Talib, i just don't have a good feeling about his game translating well to the pro game. i see him as the biggest bust risks of the high rated corners. i'd rather have DRC or Jenkins if we have to take one at 11, i'd rather trade down and get Cason or Flowers later.

toonsterwu
03-02-2008, 09:17 PM
And we shall begin the conversion to a 3-4. It's fantasy of mine!

The funny thing is, if McCarthy suddenly decided to go 3-4, he has the personnel in place such that the team could be competitive in it perhaps even next year.

That said, I know the Avril pick was out of LF. It wasn't my ideal either, so I'll revisit how I have the CB's marked. I can say Scenario S-2 has some marked differences, particularly late 1st round, although I haven't given much thought to the Packers just yet.
__________________________________________________ _____________

really a side note on the t-2, but i've always been of the belief that the dt's were the most important players. The ability of the UT to collapse the pocket with consistency, with the NT holding the fort ... anyhow this is probably a discussion for another thread

Number 10
03-02-2008, 09:30 PM
I wouldn't be too upset with that pick i guess.

But 2 weeks ago you told me Cromartie was a terrible pick for the Skins and they don't need a CB on day one.

Interesting....do I know the Skins that much better than you or is there a personal gripe here going on?

GB12
03-02-2008, 09:37 PM
The funny thing is, if McCarthy suddenly decided to go 3-4, he has the personnel in place such that the team could be competitive in it perhaps even next year.

That said, I know the Avril pick was out of LF. It wasn't my ideal either, so I'll revisit how I have the CB's marked. I can say Scenario S-2 has some marked differences, particularly late 1st round, although I haven't given much thought to the Packers just yet.
...............Avril.......Hawk.....Barnett......P oppinga.....
.................Jenkins......Pickett.........Kamp man.........

That actually doesn't look bad at all. I think we're much better off in a 4-3, but I guess we could make the change if we wanted.

nobodyinparticular
03-03-2008, 12:09 AM
Gholston may be the pick right in that scenario. He continues the upgrade of the defensive line (while also being the specimen that Davis loves) and he's not redundant as Sedrick Ellis and Glenn Dorsey are. With the signing off Kelly, you may see the Raiders go for the luxury pick of McFadden though. They had Fargas. They have Bush. They still have Rhodes (and even Jordan) for now. But McFadden is seen as special and Davis loves special.

The Raiders' pick really is in the air. I'm not sure Jake Long would be an option though considering he doesn't really fit the offensive scheme that Kiffin/Knapp/Cable put together.

nobodyinparticular
03-03-2008, 12:11 AM
...............Avril.......Hawk.....Barnett......P oppinga.....
.................Jenkins......Pickett.........Kamp man.........

That actually doesn't look bad at all. I think we're much better off in a 4-3, but I guess we could make the change if we wanted.

Funny, I always thought that it would be advantageous to move to a 3-4 to find a spot for Hodge, but it seems that even still there is no room for him to fit in well.

KCJ58
03-03-2008, 12:17 AM
great Rams pick

toonsterwu
03-03-2008, 12:40 AM
Funny, I always thought that it would be advantageous to move to a 3-4 to find a spot for Hodge, but it seems that even still there is no room for him to fit in well.

If I had to shift the Packers to a 3-4, based on current personnel, I'd go

DE Cullen Jenkins
NT Ryan Pickett
DE Johnny Jolly

I'd give Justin Harrell every chance to win a DE spot, and Colin Cole would be looked at as a NT and I wonder if he might be a better fit than Ryan Pickett. Montgomery would be DE depth. Muir/Bolston (looking through their depth charts) would be tried as DE/NT mix. I think I'd try Malone as a 3-4 DE.

WOLB Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila
ILB Nick Barnett
ILB AJ Hawk
SOLB Aaron Kampman

I'd have Jason Hunter and Brady Poppinga as backup OLB's, with Hodge/Havner/Bishop as backup ILB's.

Wow. Most times, teams that transition need a year, or two. I really like how this team looks with the 3-4, and I wonder if they couldn't be a top 3-4 team next year. Granted, ain't happening, but wow. Love the DL options. Jolly at DE could be a real good fit.

Heck, there isn't even a pressing starting necessity to fill in the draft. Perhaps a NT type along with a young OLB/bigger ILB in the midrounds perhaps.

thetedginnshow
03-03-2008, 01:04 AM
In that scenario, I certainly wouldn't be opposed to the Jets trading out. I wouldn't necessarily be a fan of Balmer, but I'd be fine with the trade.