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Thunder&Lightning
03-04-2008, 09:20 AM
Now that his career has come to an end where does he rank all time?

Splat
03-04-2008, 09:21 AM
Top five to me.

bigmac076
03-04-2008, 09:23 AM
top five no doubt, he passes Marino for me.

1 Montana
2 Unitas
3 Elway
4 Favre
5 Marino

The Legend
03-04-2008, 09:25 AM
Top 5, Top 3 Possiably, Number 1 in my heart

drowe
03-04-2008, 09:29 AM
I'm gonna say, right here and anywhere else, that I think he is the Greatest QB of All Time, and I don't think I have to apologize for thinking that.

he's got the stats, the ring, the unique style, the toughness, the records, the attitude.

Turtlepower
03-04-2008, 09:35 AM
The reason why I think he is top-10 is because he was never the best QB during the time he was playing. I'm not talking about MVPs because he did have a few years where he was best in the league, but he was never the greatest QB to be on the field at all the times in his career.

Be it Marino, Elway or Manning, I always believe that there was one player who was greatest than him playing. This doesn't take anything away from what he has done, but I feel that is why I can't crown him as top-5.

DiG
03-04-2008, 09:35 AM
i voted #1.

Favre
Montana
Unitas
Elway
Marino

Thunder&Lightning
03-04-2008, 09:40 AM
1. Montana
2. Unitas
3. Elway
4. Favre
5. Brady/Marino

Dam8610
03-04-2008, 09:48 AM
Definitely Top 10, possibly Top 5, maybe Top 3. My rankings as of now go:

1) Unitas
2) Marino
3) Favre
4) Montana
5) Tarkenton/Elway

BaLLiN
03-04-2008, 09:58 AM
Top Five IMO

VoteLynnSwan
03-04-2008, 10:07 AM
Definitely top 10 for me, possibly top 5, if he was though, he'd be #5.

Jay
03-04-2008, 10:11 AM
He's definitely top 10. Where he is in it, I don't know, and I don't think anyone can ever answer with 100% accuracy...

Jakey
03-04-2008, 10:41 AM
I voted top 5...but i could have easily said the best ever. He is definately the best i have seen in my 18 years of life!

P-L
03-04-2008, 10:44 AM
He's definitely top 10, and borderline top 5. For the purposes of this poll, I voted top 10.

someone447
03-04-2008, 10:55 AM
The reason why I think he is top-10 is because he was never the best QB during the time he was playing. I'm not talking about MVPs because he did have a few years where he was best in the league, but he was never the greatest QB to be on the field at all the times in his career.

Be it Marino, Elway or Manning, I always believe that there was one player who was greatest than him playing. This doesn't take anything away from what he has done, but I feel that is why I can't crown him as top-5.

He was definitely the best QB of the mid to late 90s. From 1994-97/98 no QB was even close to him. Elway was a better QB than Favre, yes, but not by the 90s. I think Favre edges out Marino anyway though.

johbur
03-04-2008, 11:18 AM
He's had the best career for any QB that's started 275 consecutive games. He also is the best 37 year old QB ever.

I stay away from ranking guys because it is disrespectful to the guys from the past, like Otto Graham (8 championships), or that played with different rules, like no free agency or defensive and offensive rules changes. He will be a first-ballot HOFer in 5 years, and will be in a select club of first ballot HOFers.

I also believe he did more with less than the other QBs of this modern era, as the only real WR or RB he played with that had HOF potential was Sterling Sharpe and that combo was stopped so early in Brett's career. There are no Harrisons, Rices, Irvins or Mosses, Faulks or Smiths. Likely no O-linemen that will be HOFers. Reggie on defense and perhaps Leroy Butler (though non-Packers fans likely don't think so) were likely it for the other side of the ball. He still had a career that placed him #1 in a large number of QB categories and he'll be #1 for a generation or two of Packers fans for a long time.

devinhester=R.O.Y 2006
03-04-2008, 11:28 AM
I voted Top 5. The things he did on the field were unreal, and the streak is just mindbogoling! Something that can never be matched in my opinion.

hugegmenfan
03-04-2008, 11:32 AM
Top 10. Not to take anything away from his stellar and spectacular career, but a lot of records are due to longevitiy. I would say he barely misses the top 5 in my opinion.

1. Montana
2. Marino
3. Unitas
4. Brady
5. Elway

6. Favre

portermvp84
03-04-2008, 11:47 AM
I agree with hugemenfan

1. Montana
2. Marino
3. Unitas
4. Brady
5. Elway

6. Favre

art vandelay
03-04-2008, 11:54 AM
Top 10...how soon people forget how many INT's he had a few years ago though, lol.

portermvp84
03-04-2008, 11:55 AM
He's known for throwing +25 picks.

princefielder28
03-04-2008, 11:57 AM
I don't know if he is the best ever but one thing I do know is that he had the biggest influence on the game that has ever come from the QB position.

the decider13
03-04-2008, 11:58 AM
Top 5

Elway
Montana
Unitas
Marino
Favre

My top 5 of course...elway will always be number one with me lol

someone447
03-04-2008, 11:59 AM
He's known for throwing +25 picks.

Not to people alive in the 90s... The three straight MVPs...

Xiomera
03-04-2008, 11:59 AM
Brett is #1 of all-time!

No doubt in the mind of this Lions fan.

someone447
03-04-2008, 12:01 PM
I think it is entirely unfair to rate QBs from before 1978 to those after. The rules changed so much to open up the passing game in 1978, not to mention the explosion of the WCO that it is impossible to compare QBs across all time.

My Post 1978 QBs
1. Elway
2. Favre
3. Marino
4. Montana
5. Manning

eaglesalltheway
03-04-2008, 01:10 PM
He is in the top five for me. However, he is, BY FAR, the most exciting QB to watch in the span of my life so far, and most likely the who history of the NFL. I will miss him, and wish that he could have been around just a litlle longer.

Empire
03-04-2008, 03:42 PM
He's known for throwing +25 picks.

Oh really? How many times has he thrown more than 25 interceptions in a season? That's right, once in his entire career. So how exactly is he "known" for throwing "+25 picks." Everyone is allowed a down season or two. He's a gunslinger which makes him more prone to a higher interception count. But for every interception he throws he makes two or three plays that most other QB in the league wouldn't even consider making. That's what makes him special.

And he brought a lot of stability to the Packers franchise. He had just one sub .500 season in his career, making the Packers competitive year in and year out for a playoff spot. This despite the many Packer busts in the draft. Yes, Packer fans love Ron Wolf for creating the 1996 team, but he has his share of busts. John Michels, Terrell Buckley, Jonathan Brown, Ross Verba, Craig Newsome, Antuan Edwards. I could go on, but the point is that Favre brought a lot of stability to a franchise that constantly drafted poorly. And that is what makes him great.

It will be interesting to see what happens to the Packers receivers in the future. Favre has shown in the past that he makes his receivers look better than they really are. Guys like Antonio Freeman and Bill Schroeder come to mind. We'll see if it's the same case with Jennings and Jones.

Thunder&Lightning
03-04-2008, 03:48 PM
Oh really? How many times has he thrown more than 25 interceptions in a season? That's right, once in his entire career. So how exactly is he "known" for throwing "+25 picks." Everyone is allowed a down season or two. He's a gunslinger which makes him more prone to a higher interception count. But for every interception he throws he makes two or three plays that most other QB in the league wouldn't even consider making. That's what makes him special.

And he brought a lot of stability to the Packers franchise. He had just one sub .500 season in his career, making the Packers competitive year in and year out for a playoff spot. This despite the many Packer busts in the draft. Yes, Packer fans love Ron Wolf for creating the 1996 team, but he has his share of busts. John Michels, Terrell Buckley, Jonathan Brown, Ross Verba, Craig Newsome, Antuan Edwards. I could go on, but the point is that Favre brought a lot of stability to a franchise that constantly drafted poorly. And that is what makes him great.

It will be interesting to see what happens to the Packers receivers in the future. Favre has shown in the past that he makes his receivers look better than they really are. Guys like Antonio Freeman and Bill Schroeder come to mind. We'll see if it's the same case with Jennings and Jones.

haha empire wins

GB12
03-04-2008, 03:51 PM
He's known for throwing +25 picks.
That happened once.


Top 10...how soon people forget how many INT's he had a few years ago though, lol.

Well considering he lost both guards to FA that we replaced with scrubs, lost our probowl WR (Javon Walker) for the season in the first game, our 2nd round pick and probable 3rd WR Terrence Murphy had a career ending injury, Robert Ferguson our then #2 WR was lost for the year after a couple games, our probowl TE (Franks) was put on IR, Ahman Green was injured after a couple games, and our #2 RB Najeh Davenport was lost right after Green it's not as bad as it gets made out to be. We picked up Rod Gardner midseason to be our starting WR and Andrae Thurman to be #3. When you have lost that many receiving options and are playing with guys you just picked up last week INTs are going to happen. I'm not saying that it should be dismissed all together, but it's not as nearly as horrible when you look at the whole situation.





I voted top 5 by the way.

iowatreat54
03-04-2008, 03:55 PM
most INTs all time and the ***** slide that gave Strahan the sacks record is what I think of :D

easily top 5 though IMO

russie
03-04-2008, 04:04 PM
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2103_The_definitive_list:_Top_10_NFL_quarterbac ks.html


this site does a pretty good job of ranking the greatest qbs of all time. they've got favre ranked 10, and make a compelling case for all of the qbs they have listed

BamaFalcon59
03-04-2008, 04:08 PM
I am in the minority, but I do not think he is top five, maybe not top ten. Maybe it is because I first watched football in 2004 and did not see all of his greatness, I'm not sure. But one of the main things I rank quarterbacks on is how much trust I have in him in the final two minutes of a game, or overtime. And since I have started watching football I get the same feeling with him that I got with Michael Vick- nervousness of a mistake. I always felt like he would throw an interception or try to make too big of a play, especially at the end of games.

Rep rape might commence, but that is just my opinion.

iowatreat54
03-04-2008, 04:13 PM
I am in the minority, but I do not think he is top five, maybe not top ten. Maybe it is because I first watched football in 2004 and did not see all of his greatness, I'm not sure. But one of the main things I rank quarterbacks on is how much trust I have in him in the final two minutes of a game, or overtime. And since I have started watching football I get the same feeling with him that I got with Michael Vick- nervousness of a mistake. I always felt like he would throw an interception or try to make too big of a play, especially at the end of games.

Rep rape might commence, but that is just my opinion.

well since you said you started watching football in 2004 I won't hold it against you, but the point about not trusting him in the final 2 minutes doesn't work mainly because he is prolly top 5 in that category of all time

Empire
03-04-2008, 04:15 PM
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2103_The_definitive_list:_Top_10_NFL_quarterbac ks.html


this site does a pretty good job of ranking the greatest qbs of all time. they've got favre ranked 10, and make a compelling case for all of the qbs they have listed

A list that tries to compare guys from different eras doesn't make much sense to me.

russie
03-04-2008, 04:18 PM
A list that tries to compare guys from different eras doesn't make much sense to me.

did you read it all? they dont really compare stats, but they do compare things like how many times they led in which ever catagories. like i said, they make a pretty compelling case for all the qbs

Empire
03-04-2008, 04:22 PM
did you read it all? they dont really compare stats, but they do compare things like how many times they led in which ever catagories. like i said, they make a pretty compelling case for all the qbs

I never said anything about statistics. I was just talking about the QB position and how it is evolved radically from say Bart Starr's day. What makes a great QB today isn't what made a great QB 40 years ago. That's why QB should be compared to other QB from their era.

princefielder28
03-04-2008, 04:32 PM
I am in the minority, but I do not think he is top five, maybe not top ten. Maybe it is because I first watched football in 2004 and did not see all of his greatness, I'm not sure. But one of the main things I rank quarterbacks on is how much trust I have in him in the final two minutes of a game, or overtime. And since I have started watching football I get the same feeling with him that I got with Michael Vick- nervousness of a mistake. I always felt like he would throw an interception or try to make too big of a play, especially at the end of games.

Rep rape might commence, but that is just my opinion.

You started watching football in 2004?? How old are you 9???

Twiddler
03-04-2008, 04:33 PM
I am in the minority, but I do not think he is top five, maybe not top ten. Maybe it is because I first watched football in 2004 and did not see all of his greatness, I'm not sure. But one of the main things I rank quarterbacks on is how much trust I have in him in the final two minutes of a game, or overtime. And since I have started watching football I get the same feeling with him that I got with Michael Vick- nervousness of a mistake. I always felt like he would throw an interception or try to make too big of a play, especially at the end of games.

Rep rape might commence, but that is just my opinion.

Sorry but you need to have watched longer than four years to get an opinion of who is the best ever. Which is why I won't be handing out judgments on the overall rankings of QB's since I've only been watching since 1996. But I do think that Favre is an automatic top ten, maybe top five based on his resume alone (even though that is a little hypocritcal of me to say with my prior statement thrown in).

The Great Jonathan Vilma
03-04-2008, 04:36 PM
I said top 5 because i don't consider myself to be completely knowledgeable on many of the older 'greats'.

His consecutive starts streak just boggles my mind every single time i see it. There is no way that ever gets broken. I mean come on, just think about it......how does that happen?!?

G-Men88
03-04-2008, 04:37 PM
Greatest Quarterback of all-time in my opinion

The Great Jonathan Vilma
03-04-2008, 04:39 PM
I am in the minority, but I do not think he is top five, maybe not top ten. Maybe it is because I first watched football in 2004 and did not see all of his greatness, I'm not sure. But one of the main things I rank quarterbacks on is how much trust I have in him in the final two minutes of a game, or overtime. And since I have started watching football I get the same feeling with him that I got with Michael Vick- nervousness of a mistake. I always felt like he would throw an interception or try to make too big of a play, especially at the end of games.

Rep rape might commence, but that is just my opinion.

u never saw the greatness that was brett favre. You would have had the chance to watch the game after his father died, but that's about it.

I'd be interested to hear about the QBs you put in front of him because based on what you've said, i don't know how u could know anything about any of the QBs that are considered to be 'greats' if you barely saw Favre. What is your basis for putting those others on the list at all? Did you see film on them but never both to check out Favre? Or do u just base your opinion on what you hear from others?

I'm not being rude, just would like to know.

Addict
03-04-2008, 04:43 PM
I'm not a great judge since I never saw the man play, so I really shouldn't risk it, I'd say he's either right on the bubble for top 5 or in the top 5, really depends on what you value.

afftbl10
03-04-2008, 04:46 PM
you guys are holding his int's against him? but you guys all have marino in the top 5 w/o a ring?
1. montana
2. farve
3. unitas
4. brady
5. bradshaw

iowatreat54
03-04-2008, 04:50 PM
you guys are holding his int's against him? but you guys all have marino in the top 5 w/o a ring?
1. montana
2. farve
3. unitas
4. brady
5. bradshaw

yes rings mean everything...the fact that you think that and have Bradshaw and Brady ahead of Marino and Elway (Bradshaw that is) disqualifies you from making any kind of lists on this subject

Twiddler
03-04-2008, 04:50 PM
you guys are holding his int's against him? but you guys all have marino in the top 5 w/o a ring?
1. montana
2. farve
3. unitas
4. brady
5. bradshaw

I'm not a big fan of the ring argument. Football is too much of a team sport to say that a QB sucks because he never won the big one. Yes, it does make a QB look better in my eyes if he has won the Super Bowl but that's not the most important aspect in my eyes. I mean, Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl. Trent Dilfer.

Addict
03-04-2008, 04:58 PM
I'm not a big fan of the ring argument. Football is too much of a team sport to say that a QB sucks because he never won the big one. Yes, it does make a QB look better in my eyes if he has won the Super Bowl but that's not the most important aspect in my eyes. I mean, Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl. Trent Dilfer.

when are people gonna stop mentioning Trent Dilfer in EVERY 'Qb's and rings' conversation?

(it's a good argument, but c'mon, be creative, surely there have been other crappy SB winners)

BamaFalcon59
03-04-2008, 06:19 PM
You started watching football in 2004?? How old are you 9???

16. Moved to Alabama and started watching and playing football.

neko4
03-04-2008, 06:20 PM
when are people gonna stop mentioning Trent Dilfer in EVERY 'Qb's and rings' conversation?

(it's a good argument, but c'mon, be creative, surely there have been other crappy SB winners)
yeah, why not Doug WIlliams
Favre, 1c
1a Unitas
1b Montana
1c Favre

But #1 in my heart

BamaFalcon59
03-04-2008, 06:27 PM
u never saw the greatness that was brett favre. You would have had the chance to watch the game after his father died, but that's about it.

I'd be interested to hear about the QBs you put in front of him because based on what you've said, i don't know how u could know anything about any of the QBs that are considered to be 'greats' if you barely saw Favre. What is your basis for putting those others on the list at all? Did you see film on them but never both to check out Favre? Or do u just base your opinion on what you hear from others?

I'm not being rude, just would like to know.

In no order...(of course off of what I hear for players not in this era)

Joe Montana
John Elway
Dan Marino
Fran Tarkenton
Steve Young
Johnny Unitas
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning

Sure them last two will get heck of a response, but I think right now it is debatable and by the end of their careers most probable that they will be ahead. I was contemplating Roger Staubach but decided against it.

princefielder28
03-04-2008, 06:29 PM
BamaFalcon59, how do expect to have any credibility if you have only been watching football for four years and have never seen most of those players play before???

G-Men88
03-04-2008, 06:29 PM
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2103_The_definitive_list:_Top_10_NFL_quarterbac ks.html


this site does a pretty good job of ranking the greatest qbs of all time. they've got favre ranked 10, and make a compelling case for all of the qbs they have listed

Any list that doesn't have Marino in the top 10 is a ok with me

BamaFalcon59
03-04-2008, 06:34 PM
BamaFalcon59, how do expect to have any credibility if you have only been watching football for four years and have never seen most of those players play before???

I didn't ask for credibility. I gave my opinion to the question asked.

Not many people here saw YA Tittle play, so how can he be considered a top 30 QB of all time? Because people know his pedigree. It just so happens I saw some of Favres career, maybe not the most glamerous part of it, and was not impressed. Even this year, where it seemed half his balls thrown for touchdowns should have been intercepted.

Not saying he is not a great quarterback, but there are 5-10 guys I would take over him to lead my team in overtime.

neko4
03-04-2008, 06:37 PM
I didn't ask for credibility. I gave my opinion to the question asked.

Not many people here saw YA Tittle play, so how can he be considered a top 30 QB of all time? Because people know his pedigree. It just so happens I saw some of Favres career, maybe not the most glamerous part of it, and was not impressed. Even this year, where it seemed half his balls thrown for touchdowns should have been intercepted.

Not saying he is not a great quarterback, but there are 5-10 guys I would take over him to lead my team in overtime.
I saw a pic of YA Tittle's head bleading, that was enough evidence for me to consider him top 30! jk
sorry i went off track

Crazy_Chris
03-04-2008, 06:50 PM
I'd say Brett is definatly Top 10 all time, and could have a legit arguement for top 5.

BamaFalcon59
03-04-2008, 06:51 PM
Seems like that site agrees with me.

someone447
03-04-2008, 07:08 PM
when are people gonna stop mentioning Trent Dilfer in EVERY 'Qb's and rings' conversation?

(it's a good argument, but c'mon, be creative, surely there have been other crappy SB winners)

Doug Williams. Jim McMahon.

someone447
03-04-2008, 07:11 PM
I didn't ask for credibility. I gave my opinion to the question asked.

Not many people here saw YA Tittle play, so how can he be considered a top 30 QB of all time? Because people know his pedigree. It just so happens I saw some of Favres career, maybe not the most glamerous part of it, and was not impressed. Even this year, where it seemed half his balls thrown for touchdowns should have been intercepted.

Not saying he is not a great quarterback, but there are 5-10 guys I would take over him to lead my team in overtime.

Favre and Elway were the best two minute QBs in the 90s. Favre hasn't been too good at it the past few years though.

With Favre, you get either a win or an interception. I can't think of an OT game in the past probably 5 years that the Packers lost because they had to punt.

That last sentence is what made Favre great. He was able to fit balls into spaces no other QB could. Those ones that weren't ints were because defenders couldn't get their hands on it.

yo123
03-04-2008, 07:14 PM
Top 10 no doubt. Borderline top 5.

iowatreat54
03-04-2008, 07:25 PM
Doug Williams. Jim McMahon.

mcmahon > dilfer....85 bears > that ravens team

GB12
03-04-2008, 07:29 PM
Favre and Elway were the best two minute QBs in the 90s. Favre hasn't been too good at it the past few years though.

With Favre, you get either a win or an interception. I can't think of an OT game in the past probably 5 years that the Packers lost because they had to punt.

That last sentence is what made Favre great. He was able to fit balls into spaces no other QB could. Those ones that weren't ints were because defenders couldn't get their hands on it.
San Diego, Minnesota, and Denver were won in the final 2 minutes or OT due to Favre. Three in one season is pretty damn good.

neko4
03-04-2008, 07:30 PM
San Diego, Minnesota, and Denver were won in the final 2 minutes or OT due to Favre. Three in one season is pretty damn good.
I think he ment 2005

stl9erfan
03-05-2008, 12:34 AM
I'd say he's around 6th or 7th... I think Paul Zimmerman's article over on SI.com summed it up very nicely. There's no doubt he was one of the all time greats, but I'm always going to remember thinking he could've been even better.

Thunder&Lightning
03-05-2008, 08:26 AM
I'd say he's around 6th or 7th... I think Paul Zimmerman's article over on SI.com summed it up very nicely. There's no doubt he was one of the all time greats, but I'm always going to remember thinking he could've been even better.

How could you say could have been better??? He set the multiple records and never missed a game. Yes he threw many interceptions but that was his style the gunslinger type it was exspected from him. Yes he had some off field issues early on but who doesnt have problems... No one can be perfect.

cdub11
03-05-2008, 08:59 AM
Top 3 IMO

1. Montana
2. Unitas
3. Favre

Shane P. Hallam
03-05-2008, 09:01 AM
I barely rank him Top Five. After Brady retires, Favre is out. Mine is:

1. Dan Marino
2. Joe Montana
3. Johnny Unitas
4. John Elway
5. Brett Favre

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
03-05-2008, 09:37 AM
Favre is number one. He did everything you could want from your quarterback. Just think what he could have doe if he ever had a playmaker like jerry rice. Could someone explain how Marino over Favre is possible? Favre broke al his records and has the ring to go with it.

someone447
03-05-2008, 10:16 AM
Favre is number one. He did everything you could want from your quarterback. Just think what he could have doe if he ever had a playmaker like jerry rice. Could someone explain how Marino over Favre is possible? Favre broke al his records and has the ring to go with it.

People will use the INT argument. Favre had 1 more int per 400 passes. That means he only averaged 1 INT more a year than Marino.

I don't understand how Marino can be above Favre either.

awfullyquiet
03-05-2008, 10:20 AM
Favre is number one. He did everything you could want from your quarterback. Just think what he could have doe if he ever had a playmaker like jerry rice. Could someone explain how Marino over Favre is possible? Favre broke al his records and has the ring to go with it.

what about if marino had a team eh? he had nothin!

I agree with duckseason though
post 78 **** changed so much. that it's really an unfair compairson if you say 'passer'

1) Montana
2) Favre
3) Elway
4) Marino
5) Brady

6) Young

someone447
03-05-2008, 10:28 AM
what about if marino had a team eh? he had nothin!

I agree with duckseason though
post 78 **** changed so much. that it's really an unfair compairson if you say 'passer'

1) Montana
2) Favre
3) Elway
4) Marino
5) Brady

6) Young

It isn't like Favre had a whole lot. Antonio Freeman, Robert Brooks those names don't strike fear in anyones heart. Edgar Bennet, Dorsey Levens... Favre has played with one HOFer, and he was a defensive end(Sterling Sharpe was well on his way, but Favre only played with him his first 3 years.)

awfullyquiet
03-05-2008, 10:29 AM
i also think johnny u is legendary only because of his name, not because he was... 'that great' otto graham was that great. johnny u just had the right marketing story for the NFL to create the 'legend'.

Bogus. Sure, he was good, but not that good.

awfullyquiet
03-05-2008, 10:37 AM
It isn't like Favre had a whole lot. Antonio Freeman, Robert Brooks those names don't strike fear in anyones heart. Edgar Bennet, Dorsey Levens... Favre has played with one HOFer, and he was a defensive end(Sterling Sharpe was well on his way, but Favre only played with him his first 3 years.)

oh i know. oh. i know.

marino doesn't get much love because of it.
neither does favre.
if either favre or marino had a marvin harrison and a james most of their careers. i'd say, they would look better than montana possible. i know it's a shoulda-coulda-woulda phenomenal. but it still stands to reason, it's a team game, when you factor in the 'team' element, many players seem less bad.

It's the same reason why brady will always rank better than manning in my book. If it comes to similar skill, look at the players around him.

Ness
03-05-2008, 02:03 PM
He was definitely the best QB of the mid to late 90s. From 1994-97/98 no QB was even close to him. Elway was a better QB than Favre, yes, but not by the 90s. I think Favre edges out Marino anyway though.

I wouldn't say "not even close". Steve Young's 1994 season was superb. He even won the MVP that season. And Elway played at a very high level as well. Not to mention Aikman.

someone447
03-05-2008, 03:51 PM
I wouldn't say "not even close". Steve Young's 1994 season was superb. He even won the MVP that season. And Elway played at a very high level as well. Not to mention Aikman.

I meant over the course of those years. Favre's '94 wasn't as good as his next 3 years, but it was still a superb year. I don't think any QB in history has had a three year stretch like Favre did. Don't mention Aikman in this, it was a crime he was a first ballot HOFer. There were probably 15 other QBs in the league that could have done what Aikman did.

Boston
03-05-2008, 04:23 PM
I didn't ask for credibility. I gave my opinion to the question asked.

Not many people here saw YA Tittle play, so how can he be considered a top 30 QB of all time? Because people know his pedigree. It just so happens I saw some of Favres career, maybe not the most glamerous part of it, and was not impressed. Even this year, where it seemed half his balls thrown for touchdowns should have been intercepted.

Not saying he is not a great quarterback, but there are 5-10 guys I would take over him to lead my team in overtime.

You would think, after doing it for 16 years, that eventually it would cease to be luck, and actually be looked at as skill. But, I can't expect somebody who's only watched football for FOUR years, who probably doesn't completely understand the game, to comprehend that.

Boston
03-05-2008, 04:27 PM
He's known for throwing +25 picks.

...in 2005, by fourteen year olds?

I think now that Favre has retired, he'll start moving up people's top QB ranks. People tend to judge Favre as a QB off of what he's done in the last five years, rather than off of what he accomplished during his career as a whole.

BamaFalcon59
03-05-2008, 04:34 PM
You would think, after doing it for 16 years, that eventually it would cease to be luck, and actually be looked at as skill. But, I can't expect somebody who's only watched football for FOUR years, who probably doesn't completely understand the game, to comprehend that.

Guarentee I know more about the game of football than you do. Guarentee it.

You can have a different opinion on Favre. But I know football.

princefielder28
03-05-2008, 04:37 PM
Guarentee I know more about the game of football than you do. Guarentee it.

You can have a different opinion on Favre. But I know football.

That is a pretty bold statement there junior

someone447
03-05-2008, 04:38 PM
Guarentee I know more about the game of football than you do. Guarentee it.

You can have a different opinion on Favre. But I know football.

I highly, highly doubt it. Boston is quite knowledgeable. Your posts with regards to Favre just show your lack of football knowledge. Plus you admit to just starting to watch it 4 years ago. How exactly do you expect to know more about the game of football than someone who has been watching their entire life?

I wish you would have said that about me though.

Ness
03-05-2008, 11:47 PM
I meant over the course of those years. Favre's '94 wasn't as good as his next 3 years, but it was still a superb year. I don't think any QB in history has had a three year stretch like Favre did. Don't mention Aikman in this, it was a crime he was a first ballot HOFer. There were probably 15 other QBs in the league that could have done what Aikman did.

Right, well I'm just saying that there were other quarterbacks during his time that also played at a hight level and were pretty close in my opinion. Steve Young and John Elway the most notable.

niel89
03-05-2008, 11:59 PM
id have to go with favre at 4-5 on my top 5 under montana, unitas, and elway. he will go down once brady and manning retire though, i cant add some one who is still playing to my list.

i like favre, he had that gunslinger attitude which had upsides and downsides. the turnovers are too much for me to over look.

Whistler6
03-06-2008, 12:25 AM
I think Elways fans put him in the top 5 because of his last two superbowl-winning seasons. If you look at his overall stats, he was very much average except for a few seasons. He was a winner YES and that puts him up there with the best...But I think top 3 for Elway is too high. I'll say top 10.

Being a packer fan and a HOMER, I'll say Favre is the greates ever. When he was playing whether winning or not, I could not pull my eyes away from the TV

bearsfan_51
03-06-2008, 12:39 AM
Stats don't tell the whole story with Elway at all.

Last time I made a list I had Favre about 7-8 among modern quarterbacks. It's not fair to judge earlier quarterbacks by the same standards.

someone447
03-06-2008, 12:43 AM
Stats don't tell the whole story with Elway at all.

Last time I made a list I had Favre about 7-8 among modern quarterbacks. It's not fair to judge earlier quarterbacks by the same standards.

Ya, I have Elway as the best '78 and later QB, and I truly dislike him for the same reason I can't stand Eli Manning. Just go to the team you are drafted to.

Elway is much better than his stats would lead you to believe. But I think your 7-8 is some of your anti-packerness coming through.

Ness
03-06-2008, 12:52 AM
It's really hard to "rank" quarterbacks in my opinion. And it kind of contradicts the point of football, which is in essence, a team-sport. So I try to think of it as, "who best executed their job on their side of the football with the given talent around them." And that still doesn't work out as well either. Oh well. Favre was one of the best to ever play the game, and that's all that really matters.

tjpackers
03-06-2008, 11:02 AM
number 1, he is the legend when you watch a guy for that many years and he is on the same team for that many years you no you wont be able to watch the game and not miss him the guy was awsome. His number will be retired and you will miss number 4

iowatreat54
03-06-2008, 12:30 PM
number 1, he is the legend when you watch a guy for that many years and he is on the same team for that many years you no you wont be able to watch the game and not miss him the guy was awsome. His number will be retired and you will miss number 4

I won't miss him

he is a great QB without a doubt, but it seems like a lot of packers fans are blowing this out of proportion...the league will be different without him and it's always felt when a legend retires, but after a couple games, I really doubt the majority of fans outside of Green Bay, maybe the NFC North will care anymore

someone447
03-06-2008, 01:41 PM
I won't miss him

he is a great QB without a doubt, but it seems like a lot of packers fans are blowing this out of proportion...the league will be different without him and it's always felt when a legend retires, but after a couple games, I really doubt the majority of fans outside of Green Bay, maybe the NFC North will care anymore

That guy is a Packer fan. It was weird watching preseason games when Favre wasn't in. The Bears have started 20 QBs since Favre started his first game as a Packer. I was 6 when Favre got to Green Bay. I don't remember another QB starting for them.

I'm still bummed Barry Sanders retired. When someone is as fun to watch as Favre, all football fans will miss him for a while.

drowe
03-06-2008, 02:25 PM
why can i never resist posting my list in threads like this. btw, i'm beyond ok with people under rating favre. everybody is always gonna have that one player that everybody loves that they just don't get. for me, it's montana.

for the record, i started watching football in 88/89. i'm gonna leave the pre-super bowl era qbs off this list.

1-Brett Favre-yeah, i'm a homer i get it. but really, the only knock anybody can possibly have is INTs..and when you look at his TD:INT ratio over his career, he's right up there with all the other greats. he had the stats, the ring, the toughness, the unique, throwback style. everything you want in a great QB. he really was the whole package. and he did it no matter who he had as a running back or wide reciever...and sometimes, that talent was questionable at best.

2-Fran Tarkenton-another guy, who, imo had everything ya look for in a list like this. no ring, but he led the vikings to 4 freaking super bowls. he WAS a winner regardless of lack of ring. he also brought a scrambling style to the game that wasn't seen much at the time. and he put up numbers that, at the time, were unprecedented.

3-Dan Marino-as a pure passer, i think he's the best. and his lack of running game year after year was downright comical. he really led the dolphins to a decade and a half of winning football all by himself. give him even a mediocre running game and i bet this isn't even a discussion.

4-John Elway-straight up clutch. he was probably mentally and physically the most gifted QB to play in the superbowl era. he found ways to win, and he'd be the guy i'd want with 2:00 to play.

5-Joe Montana-too low? well, i don't even want him this high. it's hard to overlook his accomplishments, but for me, he was a product of the system. he played for the greatest offensive mind in the NFL and he threw to the greatest WR of all time. really, when you're backup QB can step in and equal or better what you've accomplished, ya gotta start thinking that maybe the QB wasn't the reason for the success. I put Joe Montana in the same boat as Troy Aikman. good player. but NOT the reason for his team's successes.


so, i realize that these may be the 5 most statistically impressive QBs of all time...but, that's nothing more than a coincidence. these are the guys, who, imo were talented players that all led their respective teams to long periods of winning. they all had the great combination of the physical ability to make the plays and the mental ability to win for their team. and players like that generally have no trouble hanging around long enough to put up some good career numbers.

btw, i also don't think it's a coincidence that everybody's top 10 will consist only of QBs who played the vast majority of their careers with one team. think about it...not many split careers among the all time greats.

bearsfan_51
03-06-2008, 03:03 PM
On a side note, is it a requirement that to live in Green Bay you must be at least 50 years old and/or weigh over 250 pounds? Ever report I've seen they've interviewed people and it's some of the fattest and oldest people I've ever seen. I mean, I know Wisconsin is fat, but Green Bay appears to me the mecca of all of it.

I also think it's funny how they all are on the brink of tears when talking about him. Come on people, it's not like he's dead, or that he gives a **** about you. I was sad when Walter Payton died, but that's because I actually met him a few times and he, well, died.

princefielder28
03-06-2008, 03:06 PM
On a side note, is it a requirement that to live in Green Bay you must be at least 50 years old and/or weigh over 250 pounds? Ever report I've seen they've interviewed people and it's some of the fattest and oldest people I've ever seen. I mean, I know Wisconsin is fat, but Green Bay appears to me the mecca of all of it.

I also think it's funny how they all are on the brink of tears when talking about him. Come on people, it's not like he's dead, or that he gives a **** about you. I was sad when Walter Payton died, but that's because I actually met him a few times and he, well, died.

BF51 you don't fully understand the city of Green Bay. The Packers are ALL they have. There is no profession basketball, baseball, or hockey; the Packers are it unless you count the paper mills. The Packers are like a family to the city and the family just lost one of their most important and loving individuals, Brett Favre.

bearsfan_51
03-06-2008, 03:12 PM
No I get that, and I'm actually not trying to be disrespectful here (well maybe the fat part), but you have to be able to seperate reality from fantasy. It's like that ******* terrible movie about the Red Sox and Jimmy Fallon. At the end of the day it's just a game played by people that don't know you or really care about you. Enjoy it for what it is but geez..I mean...I've seen grown men that don't cry when their parents die, but you cry because of a professional football player?

Bills2083
03-06-2008, 03:16 PM
He is easily in the top-5.
It's a shame to see him retire.
There's no other person like him.

drowe
03-06-2008, 03:23 PM
On a side note, is it a requirement that to live in Green Bay you must be at least 50 years old and/or weigh over 250 pounds? Ever report I've seen they've interviewed people and it's some of the fattest and oldest people I've ever seen. I mean, I know Wisconsin is fat, but Green Bay appears to me the mecca of all of it.

I also think it's funny how they all are on the brink of tears when talking about him. Come on people, it's not like he's dead, or that he gives a **** about you. I was sad when Walter Payton died, but that's because I actually met him a few times and he, well, died.

yeah, things in Green Bayland are getting pretty over the top, even for a homer like me. at work today, a supervisor on a team near me insisted on blasting the press conference from a radio at his desk. a lot of ladies cried. and it's really the women of Green Bay that are going nuts over this. I've seen a lot of crying women in the last couple days. haven't come across any men that were overly sad.

but, the thing is...Green Bay is a small town, and during training camp and football season, it was not uncommon to see Brett around town. my brother is a pro at a golf course he hit up a lot...he went to movies, he bowled, he grocery shopped, he golfed. now, we won't be seeing him around Green Bay...probably ever again...so the retirement/death thing does make a little sense. because i can't imagine a southern redneck that just wants to golf, fish and cut his grass year round will have much use for the great white north anymore.

nrk
03-06-2008, 03:27 PM
No I get that, and I'm actually not trying to be disrespectful here (well maybe the fat part), but you have to be able to seperate reality from fantasy. It's like that ******* terrible movie about the Red Sox and Jimmy Fallon. At the end of the day it's just a game played by people that don't know you or really care about you. Enjoy it for what it is but geez..I mean...I've seen grown men that don't cry when their parents die, but you cry because of a professional football player?

I don't think a Chicago fan can understand. You're use to your QB's going out the door.

bearsfan_51
03-06-2008, 03:45 PM
I don't think a Chicago fan can understand. You're use to your QB's going out the door.
There are other positions on the football team as well. My family was associates with Walter Payton's racing company and I met him a few times when I was a kid (how I became a Bears fan in the first place). He was a really great, larger than life character just like Favre and one of the best players of all time as well. When he died I was really sad, but even then I don't think I cried. (Not that there's anything wrong with men crying mind you, I just think it's a little misplaced about the real things that are important in life).

nrk
03-06-2008, 04:42 PM
There are other positions on the football team as well. My family was associates with Walter Payton's racing company and I met him a few times when I was a kid (how I became a Bears fan in the first place). He was a really great, larger than life character just like Favre and one of the best players of all time as well. When he died I was really sad, but even then I don't think I cried. (Not that there's anything wrong with men crying mind you, I just think it's a little misplaced about the real things that are important in life).

I know, it was only a joke. It will be weird seeing Green Bay this year without Brett Favre though.

Ness
03-06-2008, 07:19 PM
5-Joe Montana-too low? well, i don't even want him this high. it's hard to overlook his accomplishments, but for me, he was a product of the system. he played for the greatest offensive mind in the NFL and he threw to the greatest WR of all time. really, when you're backup QB can step in and equal or better what you've accomplished, ya gotta start thinking that maybe the QB wasn't the reason for the success. I put Joe Montana in the same boat as Troy Aikman. good player. but NOT the reason for his team's successes.

Oh goodness, no offense personally, but that's one of the most misunderstood evaluations of Joe Montana I've ever heard of in my life.

someone447
03-07-2008, 02:13 AM
Oh goodness, no offense personally, but that's one of the most misunderstood evaluations of Joe Montana I've ever heard of in my life.

I feel the same way about Montana. No one is saying he isn't a great QB, but to put him as the GOAT or 2nd is overrating him. Every point drowe made is valid. He played in an incredibly innovative offense, with the GOAT receiver, and his successor came in and outperformed him in the same offense.

He is number 5 for me too.

Ness
03-07-2008, 07:49 AM
I feel the same way about Montana. No one is saying he isn't a great QB, but to put him as the GOAT or 2nd is overrating him. Every point drowe made is valid. He played in an incredibly innovative offense, with the GOAT receiver, and his successor came in and outperformed him in the same offense.

He is number 5 for me too.

Well that's just your opinion, not fact. There are Hall of Fame players and coaches that think he's the greatest of all time. Why is it everyone uses the "he played with the greatest receiver of all time" card when he only played with Rice for half of his career practically? He won two Super Bowls before that while playing with guys like Dwight Clark, Freddie Soloman, and Russ Francis. And the running game was not much to speak of until 1987.

As for Steve Young, is it possible that we could have just had two quarterbacks that were good on the same roster? Hmmm. Let's not forget that Young played with great talent his entire tenure with the 49ers. "Household name" talent. Montana did not.

I could make the same case about Brett Favre not being successful if he didn't have all of those coaches in Green Bay tutoring him. And he's been in just about the same type of offense his entire career.

Even though ranking quarterbacks is kind of pointless to me, if I were to actually make rankings, Favre is 6th or 7th on my list.

drowe
03-07-2008, 08:23 AM
Well that's just your opinion, not fact. There are Hall of Fame players and coaches that think he's the greatest of all time. Why is it everyone uses the "he played with the greatest receiver of all time" card when he only played with Rice for half of his career practically? He won two Super Bowls before that while playing with guys like Dwight Clark, Freddie Soloman, and Russ Francis. And the running game was not much to speak of until 1987.

As for Steve Young, is it possible that we could have just had two quarterbacks that were good on the same roster? Hmmm. Let's not forget that Young played with great talent his entire tenure with the 49ers. "Household name" talent. Montana did not.

I could make the same case about Brett Favre not being successful if he didn't have all of those coaches in Green Bay tutoring him. And he's been in just about the same type of offense his entire career.

Even though ranking quarterbacks is kind of pointless to me, if I were to actually make rankings, Favre is 6th or 7th on my list.


those are all very valid points as well. our opinions obviously just differ on Joe Cool. and, i've seen Montana play. a lot. so, i'm not just making a judgement on stats and rosters here. but, like i said....we could all fight about this until we're dead and never resolve anything. this will always just be discussion

Dam8610
03-07-2008, 08:45 AM
when are people gonna stop mentioning Trent Dilfer in EVERY 'Qb's and rings' conversation?

(it's a good argument, but c'mon, be creative, surely there have been other crappy SB winners)

There's no more compelling and current argument than Trent Dilfer, that's why he keeps getting used. Sure, someone could bring up Brad Johnson, Kurt Warner, Doug Williams, Earl Morrall, Joe Namath, or even multiple winners like Jim Plunkett, Terry Bradshaw, and even Troy Aikman, but the only one that really compares in awfulness to Dilfer, especially in the year(s) that they won it all, is Earl Morrall, and if you bring him up, most people would say "who?".

Anyway, now that Favre is retired, how can anyone have an active QB in their Top 5?

someone447
03-07-2008, 11:18 AM
Well that's just your opinion, not fact. There are Hall of Fame players and coaches that think he's the greatest of all time. Why is it everyone uses the "he played with the greatest receiver of all time" card when he only played with Rice for half of his career practically? He won two Super Bowls before that while playing with guys like Dwight Clark, Freddie Soloman, and Russ Francis. And the running game was not much to speak of until 1987.

As for Steve Young, is it possible that we could have just had two quarterbacks that were good on the same roster? Hmmm. Let's not forget that Young played with great talent his entire tenure with the 49ers. "Household name" talent. Montana did not.


Dude, you were the one trying to state your opinion as fact, not me.

I have Montana at the 5th greatest QB of the passing era, how is that not saying he is good? Hell, how is that not saying he is great? Same with Steve Young, I have him in the top ten, obviously I think they were both great QBs.

DonWoods33
03-07-2008, 11:29 AM
I think Elways fans put him in the top 5 because of his last two superbowl-winning seasons. If you look at his overall stats, he was very much average except for a few seasons. He was a winner YES and that puts him up there with the best...But I think top 3 for Elway is too high. I'll say top 10.

Being a packer fan and a HOMER, I'll say Favre is the greates ever. When he was playing whether winning or not, I could not pull my eyes away from the TV

I absolutely despise the Broncos. But John Elway stats or no stats is the greatest QB of all time. He could everything, better then anyone else. And was the most clutch player of all time.
Favre is a great, great player, but his problem is. Like the last game he played in, is that he is almost as likely to blow it then then win it. The horrible game against St. Louis in 01, the absolutely dreadful punt he chucked against Philly in the 4-26 game in 03. Then there is the bad throw against the Giants. Those to me are huge, and drag him down a couple of pegs.
Its like Marino, another all time great, but never could he be considered the best. He had many chances, and when he needed to be 25 for 31 for 400 yards, and 5 TDs. He couldn't do it, not that it's all his fault, but he couldn't be stunning in so many of those playoff games when he had too, to win.

someone447
03-07-2008, 11:38 AM
I absolutely despise the Broncos. But John Elway stats or no stats is the greatest QB of all time. He could everything, better then anyone else. And was the most clutch player of all time.
Favre is a great, great player, but his problem is. Like the last game he played in, is that he is almost as likely to blow it then then win it. The horrible game against St. Louis in 01, the absolutely dreadful punt he chucked against Philly in the 4-26 game in 03. Then there is the bad throw against the Giants. Those to me are huge, and drag him down a couple of pegs.
Its like Marino, another all time great, but never could he be considered the best. He had many chances, and when he needed to be 25 for 31 for 400 yards, and 5 TDs. He couldn't do it, not that it's all his fault, but he couldn't be stunning in so many of those playoff games when he had too, to win.

I think Elway is the best qb since 1978, but are you talking about games like going 10-26 for 108 yards and 2 ints? Or 14-38 for 257 yards 1 TD and 3 INTs? Or 22-37 for 304 1 TD and 1 INT? What about against the Packers when he went 12-22 for 123 yards and 1 INT(By the way, Favre was 25-42 256 yards 3 tds 1 int)?

Elway had two good Super Bowls, one mediocre, and two terrible. Favre played great in one and very good in the other.

drowe
03-07-2008, 11:48 AM
the playoff argument against favre is legit. BUT, you have to remember. he led the Packer to the playoffs in 11 different years. and all but 2 of those years, they won at least one playoff game. yeah, he's f'd up a few times. but, for the most part, the were in games where the Packers were heavy underdogs like at Philly, at St. Louis. the Falcons playoff game was a stinker...and the vikings....eh, i wouldn't put that all on Favre.

anyway, the point is, Favre has thrown some picks in playoff games...but, to say he blew it in the playoffs more than most is a little much. unless you're tom brady or joe montana and are going to the superbowl everytime ya reach the playoffs, your season is gonna end with a loss. I would put the Giants loss on Brett more than any other player. the picks were just ugly and he didn't have it that night. but, that's the only game that i would say he blew for the Packers.

DonWoods33
03-07-2008, 11:56 AM
I think Elway is the best qb since 1978, but are you talking about games like going 10-26 for 108 yards and 2 ints? Or 14-38 for 257 yards 1 TD and 3 INTs? Or 22-37 for 304 1 TD and 1 INT? What about against the Packers when he went 12-22 for 123 yards and 1 INT(By the way, Favre was 25-42 256 yards 3 tds 1 int)?

Elway had two good Super Bowls, one mediocre, and two terrible. Favre played great in one and very good in the other.


There no doubt Elway had horrible SB's. But then again the Broncos were really the fifth or six best team in the league in those early ones. Although it happens with more frequency now, (ie the Giants, Steelers), rarely back then did not one of the top two teams win the whole thing. The late 80s early 90s AFC was pretty dreadful and no team in the conference stood a chance against anyone from the NFC (SF, Chi, NYG, Wash.) They were just far superior. As far as Marino goes. I am talking more the AFC playoffs, just to get the SB, they werent that far in overall talent against the teams they were playing. The Bills were great but still to lose at home to them in the 92 AFC Championship game, was pitiful.

I think you're also missing my point, that what I am saying is that Favre absolutely gave his team no shot at winning those games. He blew it, in all those cases. Denver was outclassed to be sure, but Elways clunkers came in the SB, not so much the playoffs. Although they did blow chunks against Jax in 96, when they had the best record in the conference. Just think if they had won that game. He would have matched up against Favre in another SB, and then we would really have the definitive answer.

someone447
03-07-2008, 12:28 PM
There no doubt Elway had horrible SB's. But then again the Broncos were really the fifth or six best team in the league in those early ones. Although it happens with more frequency now, (ie the Giants, Steelers), rarely back then did not one of the top two teams win the whole thing. The late 80s early 90s AFC was pretty dreadful and no team in the conference stood a chance against anyone from the NFC (SF, Chi, NYG, Wash.) They were just far superior. As far as Marino goes. I am talking more the AFC playoffs, just to get the SB, they werent that far in overall talent against the teams they were playing. The Bills were great but still to lose at home to them in the 92 AFC Championship game, was pitiful.

I think you're also missing my point, that what I am saying is that Favre absolutely gave his team no shot at winning those games. He blew it, in all those cases. Denver was outclassed to be sure, but Elways clunkers came in the SB, not so much the playoffs. Although they did blow chunks against Jax in 96, when they had the best record in the conference. Just think if they had won that game. He would have matched up against Favre in another SB, and then we would really have the definitive answer.

Favre had his team in position to win against the Eagles, the defense lost that game.

It is unfair to use Favre's bad playoff games against him, but to give Elway a pass. I don't care how much better a team is than you, when you throw for 100 yards and 0 tds, you had a very ****** game.

Favre completely outplayed Elway in their Super Bowl meeting, TD won that game for the Broncos.

For the record, I have Elway above Favre, because no one in NFL history has carried a team like Elway did in the 80s. Favre comes close, but Elway takes the cake in that regard.

someone447
03-07-2008, 12:30 PM
I would put the Giants loss on Brett more than any other player. the picks were just ugly and he didn't have it that night. but, that's the only game that i would say he blew for the Packers.

The St. Louis game rests squarely on Favre's shoulders too. 6 INTs, there is no excuse for that.

neko4
03-07-2008, 02:00 PM
Favre's Best...
Backups
1-Matt Hasselback
2-Mark Brunell
3-Aaron Brooks
4-Aaron Rodgers
5-Doug Pederson

RB's
1-Ahman Green
2-Dorsey Levens
3-Edgar Bennett
4-William Henderson
5-Ryan Grant

WR's
1-Sterling Sharpe
2-Donald Driver
3-Antonio Freeman
4-Robert Brooks
5-Greg Jennings?

TE's
1-Mark Chumura
2-Bubba Franks
3-Keith Jackson
4-Donald Lee

DonWoods33
03-07-2008, 04:20 PM
Favre had his team in position to win against the Eagles, the defense lost that game.

It is unfair to use Favre's bad playoff games against him, but to give Elway a pass. I don't care how much better a team is than you, when you throw for 100 yards and 0 tds, you had a very ****** game.

Favre completely outplayed Elway in their Super Bowl meeting, TD won that game for the Broncos.

For the record, I have Elway above Favre, because no one in NFL history has carried a team like Elway did in the 80s. Favre comes close, but Elway takes the cake in that regard.

You don't remember the duck he threw to Dawkins? That led to the game winning field goal. The Pack still had a chance to win that game at that point. It was just a horrible pass.
And you need re-read what I said. Again Elway teams got crushed in the SB when they were far undermanned. Favre blew playoff games hugely when they were not. That's the big difference. He didnt vastly out play him in that Superbowl either Davs missed a lot of the 2ND qtr with migrain, and he had that run on 3rd too, additionally the Packers got the ball back with time left on the clock too. And If you remember the game against Wash, he spotted them to a 10 pt lead, then Washington scored 42 in the second qtr. Look I am not making excuses for him. I hate that f---ing team, but I have to call like I saw it.

One more thing: A lot of this is media creation, we live in a celebrity culture, with the most popular sport in the world, subject to huge hyperbole. And they get treated like kings, with friendly media, etc. With all the rules changes, it not a stretch to say all of them are vastly over rated.

someone447
03-07-2008, 04:40 PM
You don't remember the duck he threw to Dawkins? That led to the game winning field goal. The Pack still had a chance to win that game at that point. It was just a horrible pass.
And you need re-read what I said. Again Elway teams got crushed in the SB when they were far undermanned. Favre blew playoff games hugely when they were not. That's the big difference. He didnt vastly out play him in that Superbowl either Davs missed a lot of the 2ND qtr with migrain, and he had that run on 3rd too, additionally the Packers got the ball back with time left on the clock too. And If you remember the game against Wash, he spotted them to a 10 pt lead, then Washington scored 42 in the second qtr. Look I am not making excuses for him. I hate that f---ing team, but I have to call like I saw it.

Wait, so being in the lead with two minutes left and having your defense let you down makes it Favres fault? He should never have been in position to make that throw. That game rests squarely on the shoulders of the defense.

Elway 12-22 123 yards 0 Tds 1 INT 1 TD rushing
Favre 25-42 256 yards 3 tds 1 int
Tell me, how is that not Favre vastly outplaying him?

TD had 30 rushes for 157 yards and 3 tds. He won that game for the Broncos, period.

Chmura could have caught that pass from Favre, it was just a very good play by Mobley.

Elway had three ints against Washington. You are making excuses for Elway, hold Elway and Favre to the same standards.

neko4
03-07-2008, 05:29 PM
we were underdogs to philly as i recall

Ness
03-07-2008, 09:14 PM
Dude, you were the one trying to state your opinion as fact, not me.

I have Montana at the 5th greatest QB of the passing era, how is that not saying he is good? Hell, how is that not saying he is great? Same with Steve Young, I have him in the top ten, obviously I think they were both great QBs.

And where was that? I just told the other person that his evaluation of Joe Montana was one of the most misunderstood that I have ever heard. "I", as in "me", that implies opinion. You stated:

but to put him as the GOAT or 2nd is overrating him.

That could easily be misconstrued as someone stating a fact. We've had this debate before. I don't care where people "rank" quarterbacks, as long as their situations about them are understood correctly.

Geo
03-08-2008, 10:36 PM
Pretty gutsy of Sal Pal, to interrupt the retirement ceremonry of Favre with a no holds barred article on the second-half of his career (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=paolantonio_sal&id=3281535).

neko4
03-08-2008, 11:08 PM
Pretty gutsy of Sal Pal, to interrupt the retirement ceremonry of Favre with a no holds barred article on the second-half of his career (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=paolantonio_sal&id=3281535).
wow what a D-bag. he forgot that not everything that happened to Favre in the postseason was his fault. Ya know like 4th and 23

jth1331
03-09-2008, 03:14 AM
I'm a huge Broncos fan, so I have to put Elway up there. Sure, his stats don't look pretty, but can anyone name me a WR he had to throw to in the 80's? Or how about a RB to hand off to? He had average, maybe above average players on offense until he got to the mid 90's. It is freakin amazing he took the Broncos to the Super Bowl 3 times during the 80's. I mean, the Drive? The Drive 2? How many other QB's could've handled that pressure?
With that in mind, if he isn't in the top 5 at least, your list is flat out wrong.
Now, Favre, I think he is a sure fire top 10, with probably ranking him between 4-7. Yes, he has the records, but so did Hank Aaron, and no one claimed he was the best hitter ever in baseball. I look at it more as what he could do to win you a game, and right now I think he would be behind some other guys. Elway, Montana, Unitas are 3 that come to mind atm.

someone447
03-09-2008, 05:04 AM
I'm a huge Broncos fan, so I have to put Elway up there. Sure, his stats don't look pretty, but can anyone name me a WR he had to throw to in the 80's? Or how about a RB to hand off to? He had average, maybe above average players on offense until he got to the mid 90's. It is freakin amazing he took the Broncos to the Super Bowl 3 times during the 80's. I mean, the Drive? The Drive 2? How many other QB's could've handled that pressure?
With that in mind, if he isn't in the top 5 at least, your list is flat out wrong.
Now, Favre, I think he is a sure fire top 10, with probably ranking him between 4-7. Yes, he has the records, but so did Hank Aaron, and no one claimed he was the best hitter ever in baseball. I look at it more as what he could do to win you a game, and right now I think he would be behind some other guys. Elway, Montana, Unitas are 3 that come to mind atm.

Give it 10 years and lets see if anyone but Packer fans can name any receivers he threw to, or running backs he handed the ball too. Other than Sterling Sharpe(who he only had for 3-4 years, at the very beginning) who will be memorable?

neko4
03-09-2008, 10:57 AM
Greg Jennings will be remembered, because 10 years from now he's gonna be great :)

tjpackers
03-09-2008, 02:47 PM
ok Brett has overcome and played through more than any one else

VoteLynnSwan
03-09-2008, 03:08 PM
wow what a D-bag. he forgot that not everything that happened to Favre in the postseason was his fault. Ya know like 4th and 23

what in that article isn't true?

neko4
03-09-2008, 03:13 PM
what in that article isn't true?
i was talking more about the guys tone, he acted like Favre did nothing good after 97

roidrunner
03-09-2008, 03:17 PM
i think i probably name about 90% of the people that favre threw too during his career. and the funny thing is that NONE of them were big names before him, and NONE were big names after they left him. he made them good. that speaks about the quality of QB brett was.