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BeerBaron
10-24-2008, 01:12 PM
Let's all cross our fingers for that 4-21 streak. Call me a troll if you want but Aaron Rodgers failing at life brings me so much joy.

lol, yes, that would bring the fans of every other NFC North team (and Brett Favre) a lot of joy I'm sure.

drowe
10-24-2008, 01:26 PM
Let's all cross our fingers for that 4-21 streak. Call me a troll if you want but Aaron Rodgers failing at life brings me so much joy.

yikes...can't imagine why you'd enjoy watching other fail so much. i would think it would just be a painful reminder of all those super bowls the vikings DIDN'T win.:)

Dr. Gonzo
10-24-2008, 01:31 PM
yikes...can't imagine why you'd enjoy watching other fail so much. i would think it would just be a painful reminder of all those super bowls the vikings DIDN'T win.:)

The hate is strong in our rivalry :(

One we will get that Superbowl. One day!

PACKmanN
10-24-2008, 01:33 PM
Let's all cross our fingers for that 4-21 streak. Call me a troll if you want but Aaron Rodgers failing at life brings me so much joy.

Even with Flynn, I don't think your Vikings can beat us :)

Dr. Gonzo
10-24-2008, 01:35 PM
Even with Flynn, I don't think your Vikings can beat us :)

We shall see sir. We shall see. Flynn is pretty effing horrible. All we need is Winfield to score a couple crazy TD's and we should have an easy victory :)

PACKmanN
10-24-2008, 01:42 PM
We shall see sir. We shall see. Flynn is pretty effing horrible. All we need is Winfield to score a couple crazy TD's and we should have an easy victory :)

You sir must have not seen the greatness of Flynn all in one play during the preseason, lol :)

Dr. Gonzo
10-24-2008, 01:46 PM
So I guess Matt Flynn is Rodgers 2.0. He will now wait forever for Rodgers to retire, and then come back, and retire, and come back, and then get traded, to finally get his shot.

Gay Ork Wang
10-24-2008, 02:51 PM
what did ever happen to brohm?

EvilMonkey
10-24-2008, 03:24 PM
He just squared both and thought its the same :D

you are correct sir.....

apparently all those college stats and calc classes didnt help me much. jeez that was dumb.....

johbur
10-24-2008, 08:39 PM
So I guess Matt Flynn is Rodgers 2.0. He will now wait forever for Rodgers to retire, and then come back, and retire, and come back, and then get traded, to finally get his shot.

Nope. He'll move off to another team after Rodgers wins the Superbowl and then another 6 QBs will start on other teams before the Packers settle on a replacement again... ;D

PACKmanN
10-24-2008, 10:53 PM
So I guess Matt Flynn is Rodgers 2.0. He will now wait forever for Rodgers to retire, and then come back, and retire, and come back, and then get traded, to finally get his shot.

hey maybe we will make it fair and let you guys have him so you can experience a legend of a qb in you life for once. :) lol.

yo123
10-25-2008, 01:48 AM
hey maybe we will make it fair and let you guys have him so you can experience a legend of a qb in you life for once. :) lol.

http://www.nflhistory.org/museum/hof/Tark.jpg

TitleTown088
10-25-2008, 03:25 AM
http://www.nflhistory.org/museum/hof/Tark.jpg
That chump can't carry Favre's jockstrap.

shady00
10-25-2008, 04:09 PM
Orton>Rodgers>Bradford>Gus

BeerBaron
10-25-2008, 04:11 PM
Orton>Rodgers>Bradford>Gus

Bradford? really?

PackerLegend
10-25-2008, 04:58 PM
Orton>Rodgers>Bradford>Gus

Going by stats its Rodgers although there very close. But Rodgers has been playing with a bad arm unlike Orton.

Passing
Aaron Rodgers- 145 of 221, 65.6%, 1,668 Yards, 12 TD, 4 Int, 98.8 Rating
Kyle Orton- 143 of 230, 62.2%, 1,669 Yards, 10 TD, 4 Int, 91.4 Rating

Rushing
Aaron Rogers- 30 att, 113 yards, 3.8, long 21, 3 TD, Sacked 13 times
Kyle Orton- 11 att, 38 yards, 3.5, long 12, 0 TD, Sacked 14 times

BeerBaron
10-25-2008, 05:00 PM
Going by stats its Rodgers although there very close. But Rodgers has been playing with a bad arm unlike Orton.

Passing
Aaron Rodgers- 145 of 221, 65.6%, 1,668 Yards, 12 TD, 4 Int, 98.8 Rating
Kyle Orton- 143 of 230, 62.2%, 1,669 Yards, 10 TD, 4 Int, 91.4 Rating

Rushing
Aaron Rogers- 30 att, 113 yards, 3.8, long 21, 3 TD, Sacked 13 times
Kyle Orton- 11 att, 38 yards, 3.5, long 12, 0 TD, Sacked 14 times

Also:

Kyle Orton: 16-9 career win-loss.
Aaron Rodgers: 4-3

Orton's a winner. He was just doing enough not to lose us games, but now he's actually helping us win them. Scary stuff....

PackerLegend
10-25-2008, 05:06 PM
Also:

Kyle Orton: 16-9 career win-loss.
Aaron Rodgers: 4-3

Orton's a winner. He was just doing enough not to lose us games, but now he's actually helping us win them. Scary stuff....

The reason we lost our 3 games was not Rodgers fault. He has played about as good as you can...

I think we should have a debate about the neckbeard or Rodgers assortment of stache's!

BeerBaron
10-25-2008, 05:10 PM
The reason we lost our 3 games was not Rodgers fault. He has played about as good as you can...

I think we should have a debate about the neckbeard or Rodgers assortment of stache's!

DUH NAH NA NAH NECKBEARD!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/BeerBaron/neckbeard.jpg

EvilMonkey
10-25-2008, 05:17 PM
pic is too huge to post, but behold the fu'manchu

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_DgIkqkWxM0Q/Rz5aU-YK_EI/AAAAAAAAC98/xhPvGF1eeX0/Door+County+2007+(50).jpg

Gay Ork Wang
10-25-2008, 05:31 PM
pic is too huge to post, but behold the fu'manchu

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_DgIkqkWxM0Q/Rz5aU-YK_EI/AAAAAAAAC98/xhPvGF1eeX0/Door+County+2007+(50).jpg
i think the picture describes it best:

Rodgers is a failure

GB12
10-25-2008, 05:53 PM
I know that the stats are there but do Bears fans really think Orton is as good as Rodgers?

Gay Ork Wang
10-25-2008, 05:59 PM
if we look at the way he played the last 5 games? yes i believe that

dhp318
10-25-2008, 09:56 PM
if we look at the way he played the last 5 games? yes i believe that

lol, i think that's ridiculous. The Bears have a rushing game. Up until recently, Rodgers has had absolutely no help from the ground game.

bearsfan_51
10-26-2008, 01:13 AM
I know that the stats are there but do Bears fans really think Orton is as good as Rodgers?
No, but Rodgers isn't nearly as good as Packers fans think he is either. He's played what, maybe two good defenses? At best. Keep in mind that I've always been a big Rodgers supporter, but the premise of your question assumes that Rodgers is worth a ****, which he's yet to prove he really is.

Gay Ork Wang
10-26-2008, 04:56 AM
lol, i think that's ridiculous. The Bears have a rushing game. Up until recently, Rodgers has had absolutely no help from the ground game.
Driver, Jennings and Nelson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lloyd, Booker and Hester

regoob2
10-26-2008, 10:19 AM
lol, i think that's ridiculous. The Bears have a rushing game. Up until recently, Rodgers has had absolutely no help from the ground game.Your last QB made Grant look great, why cant Rodgers do that.

Gay Ork Wang
10-26-2008, 11:09 AM
The bears average 8 more yards per game! SO MUCH BETTER!

PackerLegend
10-26-2008, 11:21 AM
Give it up for now as theres no clear cut favorite. What until the end of the season then discuss.

Gay Ork Wang
10-26-2008, 11:23 AM
We are just kidding

TitleTown088
10-26-2008, 08:19 PM
Your last QB made Grant look great, why cant Rodgers do that.

Favre really didn't have much to do with Grant's success the way I see it. Sure, defense respected Favre passing the rock last season. However, this season Rodgers has played almost as well as Favre did this far last year. It's the offensive line, they are opening nothing for Grant.

bearfan
10-26-2008, 09:14 PM
Well reports say that Orton had sex with 37 different women this bye week. What did Rodgers do?

BeerBaron
10-26-2008, 09:21 PM
Favre really didn't have much to do with Grant's success the way I see it. Sure, defense respected Favre passing the rock last season. However, this season Rodgers has played almost as well as Favre did this far last year. It's the offensive line, they are opening nothing for Grant.

Ok, well, I know exactly what your saying and I agree mostly, but I would like to point out one thing.

Rodgers can be playing just as well as Brett Favre, thats fine, good for the Packers. But he's not Brett Favre. Favre doesn't even have to be playing well at the time and you have to respect his passing. He's got a **** ton of records and will be in the HoF for sure 5 years after whenever he does retire, so you have to respect that.

Rodgers.....he hasn't accomplished all of that. So maybe defenders take that extra step forward when he's in there pre-snap....Might be the difference between Grant taking it 60 yards to the house or 3 yards into the teeth of the defense.

TitleTown088
10-26-2008, 10:14 PM
Oh no doubt. It's lord Favre. BUt if you watch teams defend the Packers this season they are not simply saying " let Rodgers beat us we're taking grant out of the game". Some ( such as the colts) have made their game plan to take Rodgers and Jennings out of the game with the big play as well.

I just can't believe I'm seeing Orton sigs around now. Impressive, or sad?

BeerBaron
10-26-2008, 11:00 PM
Oh no doubt. It's lord Favre. BUt if you watch teams defend the Packers this season they are not simply saying " let Rodgers beat us we're taking grant out of the game". Some ( such as the colts) have made their game plan to take Rodgers and Jennings out of the game with the big play as well.

I just can't believe I'm seeing Orton sigs around now. Impressive, or sad?

Impressive because it should be Robbie Gould in all those sigs.

PackerLegend
10-26-2008, 11:06 PM
You forgot to mention every single team knew Favre was good for atleast 56789876543555 billion chances a game to pick off. Its nice when your QB doesn't force a **** ton of passes, sometimes it works but it was awful. Its also nice on say 3rd and 2 when your QB doesn't bomb it down the field into quadruple coverage instead of getting the 1st. I do not miss Favre at all.

PACKmanN
11-04-2008, 06:38 PM
Well reports say that Orton had sex with 37 different women this bye week. What did Rodgers do?

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-packers-rodgerscontract&prov=ap&type=lgns

He counting his millions, no time for sex. :)

Twiddler
11-04-2008, 11:55 PM
You forgot to mention every single team knew Favre was good for atleast 56789876543555 billion chances a game to pick off. Its nice when your QB doesn't force a **** ton of passes, sometimes it works but it was awful. Its also nice on say 3rd and 2 when your QB doesn't bomb it down the field into quadruple coverage instead of getting the 1st. I do not miss Favre at all.

I do miss him as a QB, but I do get where you are coming from. There will be times where Rodgers will have bad games, but its starting to look like he's less likely to have a 5-6 interception performance than Favre would be.

TitleTown088
11-05-2008, 05:11 PM
Sexy Rexy may be back in. This changes everything.

Oldie, but a goodie.

http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2006/11/f-k-it-im-throwing-it-downfield.html

awfullyquiet
11-06-2008, 10:43 AM
sexy business.

TitleTown088
11-16-2008, 10:48 PM
......[/thread]

Monomach
11-16-2008, 10:52 PM
......[/thread]

Why? Because Rodgers beat the guy who was limping around on the field?

BeerBaron
11-16-2008, 11:25 PM
Oh no! Rodgers beat up a pitiful defense while Orton was hobbling around! Time to put him in the hall of fame!

The Dynasty
11-16-2008, 11:29 PM
Oh no! Rodgers beat up a pitiful defense while Orton was hobbling around! Time to put him in the hall of fame!

Put in the Hall of Fame Now? Jeez I thought he was in after the first two games when he had 4 Touchdowns and 0 Interceptions.

TitleTown088
11-16-2008, 11:39 PM
Two can play the excuse game. Rodgers has had/still has a separated/sprained throwing shoulder since week 4. Stop being angry because the Packers still have the best QB in the division after a HOFer left.

Boston
11-16-2008, 11:46 PM
Why? Because Rodgers beat the guy who was limping around on the field?

Ha. Orton could have had four functional legs and it wouldn't have made any difference.

BeerBaron
11-17-2008, 12:00 AM
Put in the Hall of Fame Now? Jeez I thought he was in after the first two games when he had 4 Touchdowns and 0 Interceptions.

My mistake!

A-Rodg....great QB or GREATEST QB?

Whats that? You want me to throw from a perfect pocket while the Bears only rush THREE defenders!? Muahaha! Let me just put this pass on the spot to Driver while Dan Manning runs around forgetting how to play football!! mauaha!!!

PACKmanN
11-17-2008, 12:03 AM
lol, Bears' fans are still upset about still, after all these years, not having the better qb. Man up and take the lost.

TitleTown088
11-17-2008, 12:11 AM
My mistake!

A-Rodg....great QB or GREATEST QB?

Whats that? You want me to throw from a perfect pocket while the Bears only rush THREE defenders!? Muahaha! Let me just put this pass on the spot to Driver while Dan Manning runs around forgetting how to play football!! mauaha!!!
Exaggerate much? Being the best QB in the NFC north is far from being a great QB. I'd also like to add that no one truly said he was great yet either. some thing you chumps with hand-me-down QB's every year seem to enjoy implying. He'd rightfully have to be pretty bad to not be the best. Him and Orton are the only think remotely close to respectable in the division.


With that said, yes, the Packers WR's were wide open much of the game. However Rodgers>rest in division is not solely based on one bear game. Obviously.

BeerBaron
11-17-2008, 12:13 AM
Exaggerate much? Being the best QB in the NFC north is far from being a great QB. I'd also like to add that no one truly said he was great yet either. some thing you chumps with hand-me-down QB's every year seem to enjoy implying. He'd rightfully have to be pretty bad to not be the best. Him and Orton are the only think remotely close to respectable in the division.


With that said, yes, the Packers WR's were wide open much of the game. However Rodgers>rest in division is not solely based on one bear game. Obviously.

Until he got hurt I think it was pretty clearly Orton. Similar stats but the Bears were the team with the wins. Now.........ugh.

TitleTown088
11-17-2008, 12:17 AM
Until he got hurt I think it was pretty clearly Orton. Similar stats but the Bears were the team with the wins. Now.........ugh.
I don't

Team with the wins? They have been neck and neck all season long.

GB12
11-17-2008, 12:19 AM
I hope Jerry Angelo feels the same way as Bears fans on here do. $70 million for Orton!

bearsfan_51
11-17-2008, 12:52 AM
Haha....I've said Rodgers all along. Nothing has happened to change my mind there.

umphrey
11-17-2008, 11:15 AM
Bears fans, we'll trade you Brian Brohm for next years first rounder, how bout that? Yeah he was a second rounder, but there's an inter divisional trade tax...Consider it a deal, we would have given you Favre for the conditional pick the Jets gave us plus three first rounders

jsa230
11-17-2008, 01:21 PM
after yesterdays game (if it wasn't obvious already) rodgers is the clear cut winner....

Gay Ork Wang
11-17-2008, 02:19 PM
Ha. Orton could have had four functional legs and it wouldn't have made any difference.
right cause the bears defense was atrocious. seriously i think if orton played the Bears Defense he would have similar stats

Dr. Gonzo
11-17-2008, 03:37 PM
And I got called a sore winner after the Vikings beat the Packers? This is just mean.

Gay Ork Wang
11-17-2008, 03:45 PM
well obviously Packers are never sore at anything

bearsfan_51
11-17-2008, 06:30 PM
Drowe's mom was pretty sore the other night.

GB12
11-17-2008, 06:32 PM
They have been neck and neck all season long.
You mean neck and neckbeard

TitleTown088
11-17-2008, 08:57 PM
Drowe's mom was pretty sore the other night.

Why? Was that strap-on she was defiling you with on too tight?

You mean neck and neckbeard

Yes, I do.

bearsfan_51
11-17-2008, 11:50 PM
Haha....that's still a burn on Drowe's mom.

TitleTown088
11-18-2008, 01:15 AM
Haha....that's still a burn on Drowe's mom.

I know, that's fine. I got two birds with one stone.

Monomach
11-24-2008, 09:53 PM
Aaron Rodgers is making the Saints' secondary look like a very good receiving corps.

vikes_28
12-01-2008, 04:35 PM
gus frerotte hands down.


ha. jk.

GB12
12-01-2008, 04:37 PM
He is the only QB in the division that has an NFL record.

umphrey
12-01-2008, 06:42 PM
Orton, Frerotte, Culpepper were all supposed to be backups so I guess Aaron Rodgers is the only quarterback that's actually a starter in the division.

It's not like coming from a backup position means you can't succeed but those guys all just assumed the role because someone else screwed up and handed it to the next guy in line.

vikes_28
12-01-2008, 06:48 PM
He is the only QB in the division that has an NFL record.

Yeah as of this week. He also has a record for being on 7 different teams and sucking ass, and also banging his head into a wall as a touchdown celebration causing him to get a concussion. Any comments?

Maybe Next Year Millen2
12-02-2008, 01:04 PM
Gus Frerotte took the Lions to the playoffs in 1999 without Barry Sanders. Hands down best QB ever. He even beat the Rams that year, which is the year they won the Super Bowl.

All aboard the Gus Bus.

vikes_28
12-04-2008, 01:20 PM
All aboard the Gus Bus.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

TitleTown088
12-09-2008, 07:36 PM
no seriously. how is rodgers pulling #1 or #2. he's not on the list. he hasn't started a game, he did play well against dallas. but that's it

it's still

1) Kitna
2) Orton/Grossman
3) TJax
4) Rodgers.

Nice call AQ!

Gay Ork Wang
12-10-2008, 02:39 AM
well she said rodgers is #4 since he never really played a game in the NFL

TitleTown088
12-10-2008, 10:39 AM
well she said rodgers is #4 since he never really played a game in the NFL
Yes, but any list with Tjack, no matter the circumstances, not in last is terrible.

vikes_28
12-10-2008, 10:42 AM
Yes, but any list with Tjack, no matter the circumstances, not in last is terrible.

Kitna is number 1? Questionable...

Maybe Next Year Millen2
12-10-2008, 11:31 AM
Kitna is still number 1 as far as I'm concerned. Just kidding or am I?

Kitna/Martz was a decent combo but with Kitna/ Jim"Don't Embarass Yourself" Coletto it didn't work because we still got the patented Kitna miracles(aka turnovers for the other team) with less yardage. Plus Roy stunk this year. Martz is gone which in theory to have some upside with balance but we replaced him with a buffoon. Plus our defense and Oline stink so any Lions QB is doomed to lose.

luee
12-18-2008, 05:09 PM
QBR, TDs, yardage and completion %.

regoob2
12-18-2008, 05:19 PM
QBR, TDs, yardage and completion %.
Cough wins cough

The Dynasty
12-18-2008, 05:57 PM
Cough wins cough

IF thats the case...Then its Gus.. He is 8-3 as a starter.

GB12
12-18-2008, 08:14 PM
IF thats the case...Then its Gus.. He is 8-3 as a starter.
If you could combine Gus Ferotte and Tarvaris Jackson you'd have a pretty good QB.

Vikes99ej
12-19-2008, 12:34 AM
If you could combine Gus Ferotte and Tarvaris Jackson you'd have a pretty good QB.

If you could combine a plunger and paperclip you'd have a pretty good ass-scratcher.

TitleTown088
12-21-2008, 04:18 AM
If you could combine Gus Ferotte and Tarvaris Jackson you'd have a pretty good QB.

A turnover machine that can scramble?

Dr. Gonzo
12-21-2008, 07:59 PM
Apparently Tavaris Jackson is the truth. WTF?

princefielder28
12-21-2008, 08:00 PM
Apparently Tavaris Jackson is the truth. WTF?

He needs to learn to protect the ball better when it's not in the air, but outside of that, he has made big strides in the past two games.

yo123
12-21-2008, 08:01 PM
I refuse to be sucked into the Tarvaris Jackson era.

Vikes99ej
12-21-2008, 08:13 PM
I refuse to be sucked into the Tarvaris Jackson era.

You aren't alone.

Dr. Gonzo
12-22-2008, 02:07 AM
I am not believing it yet either. He has broken my heart one to many times. Now if he continues to play this well I will be happy, I just want to see him continue this play next year. (I still think we need a QB in the offseason just in case).

toonsterwu
12-26-2008, 04:20 PM
Well, at year's end, this shouldn't be close in terms of this year. Rodgers wasn't the reason the Packers lost ... in fact, he is arguably the reason that they were so competitive this year (defense struggled at times, Grant wasn't busting out runs). Orton might've given him a run if he hadn't gotten hurt, but the Orton that came back wasn't the Orton that left.

middlelinebacker54
12-29-2008, 09:08 AM
Aaron Rodgers 2008 Stats:

28 tds 13 ints 63% over 4000 yds 93.8 QB rating


ENOUGH SAID!!! lol

Maybe Next Year Millen2
12-29-2008, 09:15 AM
I think if you put Daunte/Dan O/Stanton/Kitna together in a weird combo of QB you would get the best QB.

Dauntes canon of an arm,Dan O's lack of turnovers,Stantons athelticism and Kitnas attitude/belief in miracles(kept him healthy for 2 years at least).

Daunte O' Kitnanton is the best QB in the North. Individually they suck ass but by their powers combined, we have the ultimate QB.

Gay Ork Wang
12-30-2008, 11:09 AM
we have Caleb Grosston. A miracle man with an accurate pass, great decisions and the best deep ball ever

lionsfan81
03-23-2009, 10:18 PM
Matt Stafford hands down

jsa230
03-24-2009, 10:15 AM
I think if you put Daunte/Dan O/Stanton/Kitna together in a weird combo of QB you would get the best QB.

Dauntes canon of an arm,Dan O's lack of turnovers,Stantons athelticism and Kitnas attitude/belief in miracles(kept him healthy for 2 years at least).

Daunte O' Kitnanton is the best QB in the North. Individually they suck ass but by their powers combined, we have the ultimate QB.
just....hilarious

AJHawk50
03-26-2009, 03:49 PM
Aaron Rodgers is the man. :)

ChezPower4
03-29-2009, 02:47 PM
Dan Orlovsky FTW!!!

Maybe Next Year Millen2
03-30-2009, 10:29 AM
Drew "Muppet Babies" Henson is the best baseball player.

snowplow
04-02-2009, 05:44 PM
Cutler? or who? Rodgers?

russie
04-02-2009, 05:45 PM
cutler hands down

regoob2
04-02-2009, 06:25 PM
Cutler, Rodgers, Stafford. This division is going to have some battles for the next decade. Oh yeah and Sage Rosenfels. :D

GB12
04-02-2009, 06:27 PM
cutler hands down
******** hands down. I don't have a problem if you go one way or the other, but it's not by a large margin.

regoob2
04-02-2009, 06:33 PM
******** hands down. I don't have a problem if you go one way or the other, but it's not by a large margin.Rodgers is not better than Cutler. If you polled 100 people all 100 would say Cutler is better than Rodgers. Im not saying he's miles better. Im not saying Rodgers isnt a very good QB. Cutler is just better.

GB12
04-02-2009, 06:57 PM
Rodgers is not better than Cutler. If you polled 100 people all 100 would say Cutler is better than Rodgers. Im not saying he's miles better. Im not saying Rodgers isnt a very good QB. Cutler is just better.
Well Trent Dilfer and Mark Schlereth both just said Rodgers over Cutler, so there goes that theory. Not that they are great analysts or anything, but it is not crazy to go that way. This board is all over Jay Cutler and down on Rodgers so if you ask it here then yes I'm sure the result would overwhelmingly be for Cutler, but it is a lot closer than people think. Like I said I do not have a problem if you say Cutler and I don't have a problem if you say Rodgers. I think they are very close.

The Dynasty
04-02-2009, 07:12 PM
Rodgers is not better than Cutler. If you polled 100 people all 100 would say Cutler is better than Rodgers. Im not saying he's miles better. Im not saying Rodgers isnt a very good QB. Cutler is just better.

The only bright spot of the packers last year was Aaron Rodgers. He played very well and came in and produced. Yes he might have had lead the team to a 6-10 record but It was not his fault at all.

I know people will say that stats arent everything but Rodgers TD Ratio per game are higher than cutler, as well as TD to INT Ratio is lower than Cutler's TD to INT Ratio.

There is no way 100 people out of 100 people would say Cutler is better than Rodgers.

Boston
04-02-2009, 07:20 PM
Rodgers is not better than Cutler. If you polled 100 people all 100 would say Cutler is better than Rodgers. Im not saying he's miles better. Im not saying Rodgers isnt a very good QB. Cutler is just better.

And you're basing this off...what exactly? I know you haven't seen more than 3 games that Cutler's played in, so don't go becoming an 'expert' over night on me now.

regoob2
04-02-2009, 07:57 PM
And you're basing this off...what exactly? I know you haven't seen more than 3 games that Cutler's played in, so don't go becoming an 'expert' over night on me now.
When did I say im an expert? Ive watched plenty of both and Rodgers is a good qb. Hes just not on the level of Cutler. Cutler threw for 4500 yards last season.

regoob2
04-02-2009, 07:58 PM
The only bright spot of the packers last year was Aaron Rodgers. He played very well and came in and produced. Yes he might have had lead the team to a 6-10 record but It was not his fault at all.

I know people will say that stats arent everything but Rodgers TD Ratio per game are higher than cutler, as well as TD to INT Ratio is lower than Cutler's TD to INT Ratio.

There is no way 100 people out of 100 people would say Cutler is better than Rodgers.
Being the only bright spot doesnt mean he's better than another player.

Boston
04-02-2009, 07:59 PM
When did I say im an expert? Ive watched plenty of both and Rodgers is a good qb. Hes just not on the level of Cutler. Cutler threw for 4500 yards last season.

Right...I blindly conclude things beyond the shadow of a doubt all the time without considering myself an expert...and yeah, thanks for the stat, changed my mind completely...

regoob2
04-02-2009, 08:01 PM
Right...I blindly conclude things beyond the shadow of a doubt all the time without considering myself an expert...and yeah, thanks for the stat, changed my mind completely...
I couldnt care less if I changed your mind or not.

GB12
04-02-2009, 08:09 PM
When did I say im an expert? Ive watched plenty of both and Rodgers is a good qb. Hes just not on the level of Cutler. Cutler threw for 4500 yards last season.
You shouldn't be starting a stats argument because Rodgers easily wins that.

Rodgers threw for 4,038 last season, which is 488 yards less than Cutler, but everything else is in favor of Rodgers.

TDs: Rodgers 28, Cutler 25
INTs: Rodgers 13, Cutler 18
Completion Percentage: Rodgers 63.6, Cutler 62.3
Average: Rodgers 7.5, Cutler 7.3
QB Rating: Rodgers 93.6, Cutler 86.0

3 more TDs and 5 less INTs more than makes up for the yardage difference.

Also you could consider that Rodgers started for the first time ever in 2008 while Cutler had 21 starts going in.

regoob2
04-02-2009, 08:16 PM
I guess we'll have to wait and see.

PACKmanN
04-02-2009, 08:16 PM
hhahahahahahaha, I knew this was going to happen.

And for the guy who said 100 people who chose Cutler, wow...

regoob2
04-02-2009, 08:22 PM
hhahahahahahaha, I knew this was going to happen.

And for the guy who said 100 people who chose Cutler, wow...You seem to hold Rodgers in a much higher regard than anyone else does. As Packers fans I cant blame you. Maybe the 100 out of 100 comment was a bit much. I just looked at the stats I didnt realize Rodgers threw for that many yards. I based it more off watching them play. Rodgers always looks good but I dont see elite. I definitely think Cutler can be elite.

Boston
04-02-2009, 08:33 PM
You seem to hold Rodgers in a much higher regard than anyone else does. As Packers fans I cant blame you. Maybe the 100 out of 100 comment was a bit much. I just looked at the stats I didnt realize Rodgers threw for that many yards. I based it more off watching them play. Rodgers always looks good but I dont see elite. I definitely think Cutler can be elite.

I highly, highly doubt that's what you based your opinion off of. I'm sure ESPN played a much bigger part. First off, Rodgers has been starting for what, a year now? It's a bit premature to assume he can't get better.

And yes, I agree with you, Cutler can be an elite QB, but I really don't think it's going to happen with the Bears...

PACKmanN
04-02-2009, 08:33 PM
You seem to hold Rodgers in a much higher regard than anyone else does. As Packers fans I cant blame you. Maybe the 100 out of 100 comment was a bit much. I just looked at the stats I didnt realize Rodgers threw for that many yards. I based it more off watching them play. Rodgers always looks good but I dont see elite. I definitely think Cutler can be elite.

I hold Rodgers higher? I think its you who holds Cutler higher since you know, the Bears haven't had a franchise qb since...

princefielder28
04-02-2009, 08:40 PM
Let's stop the arguing. Can't we just be happy enough to see these two face each other to open the season on Sunday Night football?

I think we may have ourselves quite the rivalry now too....Rodgers v. Cutler

regoob2
04-02-2009, 09:19 PM
I highly, highly doubt that's what you based your opinion off of. I'm sure ESPN played a much bigger part. First off, Rodgers has been starting for what, a year now? It's a bit premature to assume he can't get better.

And yes, I agree with you, Cutler can be an elite QB, but I really don't think it's going to happen with the Bears...
When did I say Rodgers wont get better? Thanks for telling me what I base my statements on.

regoob2
04-02-2009, 09:20 PM
Let's stop the arguing. Can't we just be happy enough to see these two face each other to open the season on Sunday Night football?

I think we may have ourselves quite the rivalry now too....Rodgers v. Cutler
That's going to be a great game.

bearsfan_51
04-02-2009, 10:50 PM
http://www.chicagobears.com/userfiles/image/default/Cutler_inside040209.jpg

All hail his royal Cutlerness.

hagy34
04-02-2009, 11:10 PM
This trade means one thing. Jared Allen has a new favorite QB to haunt. I can't wait to see those to talk some s*** to each other. That's gonna be fun. :)

regoob2
04-02-2009, 11:14 PM
This trade means one thing. Jared Allen has a new favorite QB to haunt. I can't wait to see those to talk some s*** to each other. That's gonna be fun. :)I think/hope Pace will have something to say about that!! Jay Cutler and Orlando Pace........ not a bad lil Thursday!:p

Vikes99ej
04-02-2009, 11:26 PM
I think/hope Pace will have something to say about that!! Jay Cutler and Orlando Pace........ not a bad lil Thursday!:p

Okay okay okay... you're seriously excited about getting Orlando Pace?

bearsfan_51
04-02-2009, 11:28 PM
Pace was actually really good last year, he would have been a hell of an upgrade over Ryan Cook, or Anthony Herrera, or whoever the hell plays RT for the Vikings.

It's a moot point anyway though, as Jared Allen will be facing Chris Williams, not Pace.

DHVF
04-02-2009, 11:34 PM
Okay okay okay... you're seriously excited about getting Orlando Pace?I would have been. When he's healthy he's still a very good tackle and I'd much prefer having him to using our first on Eben.

DHVF
04-02-2009, 11:35 PM
Pace was actually really good last year, he would have been a hell of an upgrade over Ryan Cook, or Anthony Herrera, or whoever the hell plays RT for the Vikings.

It's a moot point anyway though, as Jared Allen will be facing Chris Williams, not Pace.Hey, our front office fully expects Ryan Cook to improve this year. :(

Monomach
04-03-2009, 05:58 AM
Okay okay okay... you're seriously excited about getting Orlando Pace?

In 14 starts last year, he only gave up 2 sacks. Here on earth, that's a tackle to get excited about.

ChezPower4
04-04-2009, 01:52 PM
Hey, our front office fully expects Ryan Cook to improve this year. :(

I wouldn't hold your breath...

Dr. Gonzo
04-04-2009, 01:57 PM
Rosencoptre is easily the most athletic QB in the division and we all know athletic = successful.

bored of education
04-04-2009, 02:01 PM
John David Booty

IBTL

Dr. Gonzo
04-04-2009, 02:02 PM
John David Booty

IBTL

Well obviously he is the best. I blame Childress for not letting him prove it to the world.

ChezPower4
04-04-2009, 02:03 PM
Rosencoptre is easily the most athletic QB in the division and we all know athletic = successful.

Sage= Championship

Packystan
04-04-2009, 04:44 PM
It's closer than people may think. Cutler has that Bazooka arm and is more accurate than people give him credit for, but I still have to give the nod to Rodgers. I think Rodgers' decision making is what sets him apart. Yes, he needs to make better decisions when it counts, but he threw for over 4,000 yards, had a 63.6 comp pct, and only had 13 ints. I have a lot of love naturally for Cutler and his Favre like gunslinging mentality, but with him going to a Chicago offense that has very few offensive weapons, a shaky offensive line and an aging D, I dont see him to making a huge impact like a lot of people have been saying.

This is great for the NFC North though no doubt.

Mr. Hero
04-04-2009, 04:52 PM
As an outsider I've gotta say Cutler, Rodgers is a very good QB and has vindicated me for saying he should've gone number one overall, but Cutler's a notch better, he's shown more for longer. Yes he takes a lot of risks but he's pass/int ratio is exceptional and he's shown he can carry a team into playoff contention, he did so this past season with no defense and new starting RB each week. This isn't an insult to rodgers at all, Cutler's just an exceptional young QB and one of the three best QBs in the league under thirty.

bearsfan_51
04-04-2009, 05:07 PM
It's closer than people may think. Cutler has that Bazooka arm and is more accurate than people give him credit for, but I still have to give the nod to Rodgers. I think Rodgers' decision making is what sets him apart. Yes, he needs to make better decisions when it counts, but he threw for over 4,000 yards, had a 63.6 comp pct, and only had 13 ints. I have a lot of love naturally for Cutler and his Favre like gunslinging mentality, but with him going to a Chicago offense that has very few offensive weapons, a shaky offensive line and an aging D, I dont see him to making a huge impact like a lot of people have been saying.

This is great for the NFC North though no doubt.
Come on. Be honest with yourself. Rodgers had a great first year, but the reason you think he's better than Cutler is because you're a Packers fan. I wish you guys could at least own up to that.

Packystan
04-04-2009, 07:30 PM
Come on. Be honest with yourself. Rodgers had a great first year, but the reason you think he's better than Cutler is because you're a Packers fan. I wish you guys could at least own up to that.

Exactly, he had a great year being put in the situation of not only taking over a 13-3 team, but taking the spot of a quarterback that finished only behind Brady for the MVP. When is the last time you've seen a first year quarterback succeed in that much of a pressure situation. Packer fans were blessed, and spoiled to seeing the same quarterback walk out on the field, every game, for 16 years. He knew he was going to be held to Favre's standard every game, and played extremely well. He went through the adversity of playing through an injury. He showed the toughness of getting pummeled during the year and getting right back up and producing. The defense had a lot of key injuries during the year, and if not for noticable defensive breakdowns at the end of games, and 2 special teams plays that would normally have been made weren't, they would have been well in contention.

Like I said, Jay Cutler is a good quarterback, but he already had 21 carrer starts in the league, compared to 0 for Rodgers. Not only that but, but other than passing yards, ALL of Rodgers' stats would have been career highs for Cutler.

If Cutler was better than Rodgers, I would be glad to admit it, because honestly, I didn't expect Rodgers to perform as well as he did, and this is just my opinion. I've liked Cutler since he was at Vandy, I love a great quarterback just as much as the next guy. I never said Aaron was far and away better than Jay, like i said, its close. But I'd take Rodgers.

PACKmanN
04-04-2009, 07:33 PM
Come on. Be honest with yourself. Rodgers had a great first year, but the reason you think he's better than Cutler is because you're a Packers fan. I wish you guys could at least own up to that.

or the matter of him putting up better stats, idk...

regoob2
04-04-2009, 08:43 PM
Exactly, he had a great year being put in the situation of not only taking over a 13-3 team, but taking the spot of a quarterback that finished only behind Brady for the MVP. When is the last time you've seen a first year quarterback succeed in that much of a pressure situation. Packer fans were blessed, and spoiled to seeing the same quarterback walk out on the field, every game, for 16 years. He knew he was going to be held to Favre's standard every game, and played extremely well. He went through the adversity of playing through an injury. He showed the toughness of getting pummeled during the year and getting right back up and producing. The defense had a lot of key injuries during the year, and if not for noticable defensive breakdowns at the end of games, and 2 special teams plays that would normally have been made weren't, they would have been well in contention.

Like I said, Jay Cutler is a good quarterback, but he already had 21 carrer starts in the league, compared to 0 for Rodgers. Not only that but, but other than passing yards, ALL of Rodgers' stats would have been career highs for Cutler.

If Cutler was better than Rodgers, I would be glad to admit it, because honestly, I didn't expect Rodgers to perform as well as he did, and this is just my opinion. I've liked Cutler since he was at Vandy, I love a great quarterback just as much as the next guy. I never said Aaron was far and away better than Jay, like i said, its close. But I'd take Rodgers.Im not trying to take a shot at the Pack but do you really want to bring up your record when trying to say Rodgers is better? And if the Bears didnt lose so many close games you guys one again wouldnt have been in contention. Everyone loses close games.

Gay Ork Wang
04-04-2009, 09:36 PM
or the matter of him putting up better stats, idk...
cause stats tell the whole story.

Tell me, who had the better defense? Who had the better Receiving Corps? Who had the better run game?

regoob2
04-04-2009, 09:38 PM
No one is ever going to win this argument. Its bears fans vs Packer fans. We'll just have to see who has the better season.

BaLLiN
04-04-2009, 09:42 PM
if im looking overall player id take cutler, i dont think rodgers would do the crazy **** that cutler does like throw his body infront of defenders to help his RB.

The test will be to produce with the bears recievers, rodgers has pretty good WC WRs, Cutler doesnt even have 1 big target and he's a gun slinger.

now cutlers gunna say "screw this, im going long to hester" and itll actually work unlike what grossman was trying to do.

Dr. Gonzo
04-04-2009, 09:44 PM
As a Vikings fan I would take Cutler even if he is a whiny ***** who I despise (now that he is a Bear I hate him even more). This season will go a long way towards proving who is better. It will still be tough to compare the two considering how much better the Packers receiving corp is but I think it will be a lot easier to compare the two after this year than it is now.

GB12
04-04-2009, 09:49 PM
A big disadvantage in this argument is that people have watched Cutler for 2+ years while Rodgers has only had one. After Rodgers does it again next year he will get more respect.

Boston
04-04-2009, 09:55 PM
Come on. Be honest with yourself. Rodgers had a great first year, but the reason you think he's better than Cutler is because you're a Packers fan. I wish you guys could at least own up to that.

Come on now, you know it goes the same way for Bears fans with Cutler.

A big disadvantage in this argument is that people have watched Cutler for 2+ years while Rodgers has only had one. After Rodgers does it again next year he will get more respect.

And the fact that Cutler has pretty much been performing right out of the gates, after going high in the first round.

In all honesty, I think Cutler is better then Rodgers at this point, but I don't think there's that big of a gap, and I think it's going to get even smaller after this season.

Dr. Gonzo
04-04-2009, 09:55 PM
A big disadvantage in this argument is that people have watched Cutler for 2+ years while Rodgers has only had one. After Rodgers does it again next year he will get more respect.

A little cocky there. I hope for your sake that doesn't end up biting you in the ass.

On second thought I kind of day, I can't have myself every hoping a Packer does good.

PACKmanN
04-04-2009, 09:59 PM
cause stats tell the whole story.

Tell me, who had the better defense? Who had the better Receiving Corps? Who had the better run game?

We had a better defense, but they were also crap. They had the better receiving corps, and they had a better run game...Plus, if we had the better defense then Cutler should have put up even more stats, because he needed to always score.

regoob2
04-04-2009, 10:01 PM
I wouldnt be surprised at all if Rodgers puts up better numbers than Cutler. Rodgers has 2 great WRs to throw to and he's been in GB for 5 years now. Id be very happy if Cutler throws for 3500 and 20+ TDs. I think now that we finally have a legit QB Forte is really gonna break out next season behind a much improved passing game and OL.

regoob2
04-04-2009, 10:03 PM
We had a better defense, but they were also crap. They had the better receiving corps, and they had a better run game...Plus, if we had the better defense then Cutler should have put up even more stats, because he needed to always score.Id take GBs WRs over Denver'.

Gay Ork Wang
04-04-2009, 10:05 PM
We had a better defense, but they were also crap. They had the better receiving corps, and they had a better run game...Plus, if we had the better defense then Cutler should have put up even more stats, because he needed to always score.
really? after all these threads: Greg Jennings is at least on par with Marshall if not better now the receiving corps is suddenly worse?

I remember when packers fans were trying to sell the Packers WR Corps as the best in the NFC at least the one with most depth and like in the top3 or something. I mean Ruvell Martin is better than berrian, i just read that yesterday on here

GB12
04-04-2009, 10:08 PM
Id take GBs WRs over Denver'.
No question.

Jennings and Marshall are more or less even
Driver is better than Royal (for last year at least, could change in '09)
Nelson/Jones/Martin are better than Stokely/Jackson/Jackson

Gay Ork Wang
04-04-2009, 10:09 PM
yea but i see how the guy is trying hard to make a point for rodgers

PACKmanN
04-04-2009, 10:52 PM
yea but i see how the guy is trying hard to make a point for rodgers
TEs:
Graham=Lee
Scheffler>Finely
WRs:
Marshall> Driver(last time I check, he was our number one. Marshall is also better then Jennings, don't let the homer side get to you)
Royal<Jennings
Stokley>Nelson
Jackson<Martin

James Jones was only healthy for 10 games, if that, he was battling injuries last year.

Based on last year, since Rodgers only played last year, he was completely the better qb. Plus, he was playing through injuries and didn't have the lucky calls the Broncos got last year.

Dr. Gonzo
04-04-2009, 10:53 PM
I just thought about this. Stafford (I assume he is the Lions pick), Cutler, Rodgers and m personal Jesus John David Booty all in the same division. There should be some great QB battles ahead (nobody better post any JDB hate, let me have my deity).

Gay Ork Wang
04-05-2009, 06:11 AM
TEs:
Graham=Lee
Scheffler>Finely
WRs:
Marshall> Driver(last time I check, he was our number one. Marshall is also better then Jennings, don't let the homer side get to you)
Royal<Jennings
Stokley>Nelson
Jackson<Martin

James Jones was only healthy for 10 games, if that, he was battling injuries last year.

Based on last year, since Rodgers only played last year, he was completely the better qb. Plus, he was playing through injuries and didn't have the lucky calls the Broncos got last year.

nice way of doing it:

Scheffler >>> Lee
Graham >> Finely
WRs:
Marshall = Jennings
Royal < Driver
Nelson < Stokely
Jackson<Martin

bigbluedefense
04-05-2009, 11:16 AM
well this became an easy question to answer now haha.


although Im also very high on Aaron Rodgers. But its definitely Cutler.

ChezPower4
04-05-2009, 01:55 PM
nice way of doing it:

Scheffler >>> Lee
Graham >> Finely
WRs:
Marshall = Jennings
Royal < Driver
Nelson < Stokely
Jackson<Martin

Jordyzzz>Stokely

bearsfan_51
04-05-2009, 04:11 PM
Come on now, you know it goes the same way for Bears fans with Cutler.
Except in this case, we're right.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
04-05-2009, 05:13 PM
Both are good QBs. Cutler has really grown in 2.5 years of starting. If I had to pick, I'd take the good more experienced QB taught by Shanahan. Rodgers is a very good player as well and fits the Packers system perfectly so for the Packers Rodgers might fit better and Cutler fits better for the Bears because they need an experienced franchise QB so they can win now. Although Cutler is learning a new playbook and needs some WRs. Awww crap, its a tie. Fight to the death on the Sunday night game will decide it.

ChezPower4
04-06-2009, 01:26 AM
]Both are good QBs. Cutler has really grown in 2.5 years of starting. If I had to pick, I'd take the good more experienced QB taught by Shanahan. Rodgers is a very good player as well and fits the Packers system perfectly so for the Packers Rodgers might fit better and Cutler fits better for the Bears because they need an experienced franchise QB so they can win now. Although Cutler is learning a new playbook and needs some WRs. Awww crap, its a tie. Fight to the death on the Sunday night game will decide it.

http://i330.photobucket.com/albums/l408/nofdi1021/cast.jpg

jsang74
04-06-2009, 07:32 PM
I'd take Aaron Rogers because he is more careful with the football and has shown more character IMO.

maryandy111
04-06-2009, 09:13 PM
rodgers haven't started a game, he did play well against dallas.

AJHawk50
04-06-2009, 10:53 PM
Rodgers hasn't started a game? Your a year behind.

ChezPower4
04-07-2009, 11:18 AM
rodgers haven't started a game, he did play well against dallas.

Ummm are you lost?

mqtirishfan
04-07-2009, 02:46 PM
rodgers haven't started a game, he did play well against dallas.

And a black man will never be President, I tell you!

Kid_Ego
04-09-2009, 05:38 PM
Who a thought a black Woman would be president before a black man. Sorry bad Joke but she gets more publicity then he does.
Im not sure Cutler is an upgrade over Orton He had a lot diffrent offesne in Denver lets wait till they actually have filled the others shoes then determine that. He was probowler By default. if he was that good they would of made the playoffs and before all you get your pantys in a bunch lets face it the vikings didnt have a defense or a healthy rb for the entire Dennis Green ERA and still made the play offs. Leroy Hoard and Scottie Grahm arent going to be inducted in the hall of fame. and I dare any none viking fan to try and name a Defensive player Besides John Randle. Seriously they stunk. Plus they got there with a diffrent qb every year in a better division the AFC West sucked ass.

bearsfan_51
04-09-2009, 07:54 PM
Who a thought a black Woman would be president before a black man. Sorry bad Joke but she gets more publicity then he does.
Im not sure Cutler is an upgrade over Orton He had a lot diffrent offesne in Denver lets wait till they actually have filled the others shoes then determine that. He was probowler By default. if he was that good they would of made the playoffs and before all you get your pantys in a bunch lets face it the vikings didnt have a defense or a healthy rb for the entire Dennis Green ERA and still made the play offs. Leroy Hoard and Scottie Grahm arent going to be inducted in the hall of fame. and I dare any none viking fan to try and name a Defensive player Besides John Randle. Seriously they stunk. Plus they got there with a diffrent qb every year in a better division the AFC West sucked ass.

******* ignorant garbage.

VoteLynnSwan
04-09-2009, 11:28 PM
Lets just wait till we see how they do next year before we try making these predictions please... Obviously Cutler is the most talented quarterback in the division, but no one knows how he'll do in Chicago, not to mention that Rodgers plays in an offense that is much more conducive to his playing style. It remains to be seen how Chicago's offense suits Cutler.

Dr. Gonzo
04-10-2009, 12:03 AM
My prediction: Rosencopter will outperform every other QB in the division. You will all see.

russie
04-10-2009, 04:37 AM
My prediction: Rosencopter will outperform every other QB in the division. You will all see.

yeah!!!! go sage rosenfail

Kid_Ego
04-10-2009, 12:14 PM
Remember the Walker Trade. The only thing ignorant is people believing that Cutler a guy who has a losing record at qb with a much better offense hence the fact he was sacked 11 times compared to ortons 20+ times and Cutler threw 1.5x as much will some how transform the bears to a superbowl contender in the next two years laying on his back. Orlando pace hasnt been healthy in soe time and who is he going to throw to forte every single time the bears have 2 #3 receivers and Cutler left one of the young bright wide outs in the league.

Kid_Ego
04-10-2009, 12:16 PM
and if he doesnt then the bears gave away 2 first rounders or two offensive linemen a first and a third this year and a potential qb next year. nevermind the fact Cassill was gotten for alot less and has done as good or better with no running game

bearsfan_51
04-10-2009, 12:39 PM
Remember the Walker Trade. The only thing ignorant is people believing that Cutler a guy who has a losing record at qb with a much better offense hence the fact he was sacked 11 times compared to ortons 20+ times and Cutler threw 1.5x as much will some how transform the bears to a superbowl contender in the next two years laying on his back. Orlando pace hasnt been healthy in soe time and who is he going to throw to forte every single time the bears have 2 #3 receivers and Cutler left one of the young bright wide outs in the league.
Javon Walker? What the **** does that have to do with anything?

Your whole argument is ignorant. It's not even worth responding to. Have fun with Tarvaris again.

85BearFan
04-11-2009, 10:40 AM
The only thing ignorant is people believing that Cutler a guy who has a losing record at qb with a much better offense hence the fact he was sacked 11 times compared to ortons 20+ times and Cutler threw 1.5x as much will some how transform the bears to a superbowl contender in the next two years laying on his back. Orlando pace hasnt been healthy in soe time and who is he going to throw to forte every single time the bears have 2 #3 receivers and Cutler left one of the young bright wide outs in the league.

Cutler has a quicker physical release than Orton, is far more mobile than Orton, and being a gunslinger he makes his reads and decisions quicker than Orton. Kyle tried hard not to make mistakes, hence, the hesitation, which also led to more throw aways and sacks. Can't even compare those two, theres a reason why the Bears gave up as much as they did, Orton is inferior to Cutler in every way by a significant margin.

The Bears uncharacteristically blew several 4th quarter leads last year, due to the defense being tired because of the inept offense constantly going 3 and out. With Cutler, we know he can keep the chains moving, and keep the defense off the field. If we had Cutler last year, instead of 9-7 we are at least a 12-13 win team. We'll see how much he helps in the upcoming season...

Kid_Ego
04-11-2009, 02:57 PM
Just the fact you said the javon walker trade speaks volumes.
But He also had better players he still has a losing record on a better offense.
He has by many people been compared to Jeff George who was a bit of a premadonna.
The Bears dont run the same offense as the broncos the numbers really dont mean jack to me.other then the fact Orton spent alot of time on his back. Orton was a fairly prolific Qb in college at purdue more so then Cutler.
Brian Greise Jake Plummer both put up simular numbers under shanahan the main diffrence being they won more games.
Seriously Unless the bears are able to lure shananhan along with cutler I feel this trade is very comparable to the HERSHAL WALKER trade one team gets to rebuild an entire side of the ball while the other falls short of there lofty goals.

Kid_Ego
04-11-2009, 02:59 PM
And personally all the negetive reputation in the world wont change the fact the bears gave the farm for promise and not progress.

bearsfan_51
04-11-2009, 03:05 PM
Seriously Unless the bears are able to lure shananhan along with cutler I feel this trade is very comparable to the HERSHAL WALKER trade one team gets to rebuild an entire side of the ball while the other falls short of there lofty goals.
Haha...you said Hershal. He's name is Herschel, Einstein. Speaking of speaking volumes, your awful spelling and grammar give you away as the fool you are.

But, since you brought it up, let's compare.

The Vikings gave up:

1990 1st round pick
1990 2nd round pick
1990 6th round pick
1991 1st round pick
1991 2nd round pick
1992 2nd round pick
1992 3rd round pick
1993 1st round pick
As well as 4 players.

In return they got back a runningback and 2 3rd rounders.

So, all said, the Vikings gave up an extra 1st rounder and three extra 2nd's for a player at a position of drastically less value.

But great comparison.

Monomach
04-11-2009, 03:15 PM
The Bears uncharacteristically blew several 4th quarter leads last year, due to the defense being tired because of the inept offense constantly going 3 and out. With Cutler, we know he can keep the chains moving, and keep the defense off the field. If we had Cutler last year, instead of 9-7 we are at least a 12-13 win team. We'll see how much he helps in the upcoming season...
That bolded part is a crock of ****. The defense blew leads because they were one of the worst against the pass in the NFL. They were just as bad in the first quarter as they were at the end of the game.

Somse
04-11-2009, 03:32 PM
Haha...you said Hershal. He's name is Herschel, Einstein. Speaking of speaking volumes, your awful spelling and grammar give you away as the fool you are.

Might want to check your own spelling and grammar before you jump down somebody's throat...

bearsfan_51
04-11-2009, 03:34 PM
Might want to check your own spelling and grammar before you jump down somebody's throat...
There's a difference between an occasional typo and distractingly awful syntax. But thanks for the heads up boss hog.

Somse
04-11-2009, 03:46 PM
There's a difference between an occasional typo and distractingly awful syntax. But thanks for the heads up boss hog.

Right, I'm sure you had no idea who he was talking about...

How was yours an "occasional typo" and his was "distractingly awful syntax"? No reason to be an asshole about it and call him an idiot.

bearsfan_51
04-11-2009, 03:57 PM
Either you didn't even read his posts (any of them, just pick one) or you're trying to start an argument. Regardless, I don't quite care. If you want to be the internet police, be my guest. We're all better for you butting in.

Somse
04-11-2009, 04:08 PM
Either you didn't even read his posts (any of them, just pick one) or you're trying to start an argument. Regardless, I don't quite care. If you want to be the internet police, be my guest. We're all better for you butting in.

Right, because it was me who initially jumped down somebody's throat for spelling somebody's name wrong (despite the fact I can't string together a simple sentence) and then called them an idiot...

85BearFan
04-11-2009, 05:11 PM
That bolded part is a crock of ****. The defense blew leads because they were one of the worst against the pass in the NFL. They were just as bad in the first quarter as they were at the end of the game.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/drivechart?game_id=29544&displayPage=tab_drive_chart&season=2008&week=REG2&override=true
look at drive charts from the Bears losses. Panther game as 1 example:

from the 2nd quarter on:

2nd Quarter
Time Poss Drive Began # of Plays /Net Yards/Result
1:17 CHI 25 3 /-8 /Punt
0:35 CHI 9 3 /-2 /Punt
0:12 CHI 18 1/-1 /End of Half
3rd Quarter
Time Poss Drive Began # ofPlays/ Net Yards / Result
2:50 CHI 18 5/26 /Punt
2:01 CAR 23 4/23/Touchdown
0:18 CHI 23 1/9 /Fumble
1:44 CHI 20 3/7 /Punt
4th Quarter
Time Poss Drive Began # ofPlays /Net Yards/Result
3:23 CHI 12 7/15/Punt
1:33 CHI 10 3/3/Punt
0:57 CHI 29 3/-4 /Punt
0:32 CHI 41 4/9 /Downs

See why the Bears lost that Panther game now? That kind of dismal offensive output killed the D. They couldn't even move the chains.

We know how bad Kyle and the offense played against the 1st Packers, and 2nd Vikings games so charts not necessary to post. Not to mention Kyle/offense played garbage for most of the ATL and TB games, but there was enough blame to go all around there, as well as the Texans game. Defense also bailed Kyle/offense out of the Philly game (where posted a 0.0 2nd half rating), Saints, and 2nd Packer game.

Orton only had 2 impressive games: The 1st Lions and 1st Vikings games.

mqtirishfan
04-11-2009, 09:45 PM
Remember the Walker Trade. The only thing ignorant is people believing that Cutler a guy who has a losing record at qb with a much better offense hence the fact he was sacked 11 times compared to ortons 20+ times and Cutler threw 1.5x as much will some how transform the bears to a superbowl contender in the next two years laying on his back. Orlando pace hasnt been healthy in soe time and who is he going to throw to forte every single time the bears have 2 #3 receivers and Cutler left one of the young bright wide outs in the league.

Fact: Jay Cutler allowed the other team to score.

Kid_Ego
04-12-2009, 02:46 PM
I guess im inclined to believe that maybe just maybe it was more then Ortons fault that the bears offense was ineffective.
Btw When the vikings gave up the farm for Hershal Walker it was alot diffrent league. The draft had more rounds also there wasnt free agency and restriced free agency where teams lose 4-5 guys almost every year. By no means am I defending the trade it was a horrible trade. But when you look at the whole picture they had the best defese in the league a probowl QB a probowl line that included 2 sure fire hall of famers Zimmerman And McDanial. A defense that Included chris doleman Keith Milliard Joey Browner a pretty good receiving core lead by anthony carter. And they traded for the best kick returner best punt returner leading rusher in the game who was an elite athlete who also starred on the olympic bob sledding team.
My point is this anytime a team gives away 2 first rounders in todays NFL and a third rounder they should atleast get a proven commodity, Im not sure they got that. And there is no way if Im a gm on any team on the nfl I could pull the trigger on that trade. Todays NFL rarely allows you to get true blue chip players out of free agency if they are there there is Baggage. SO you need to make every pick cound. I see the argument they havent done great drafting a qb, But Im not sure they have given any qb the weapons to succeed nor have they given him the time to develop. Jay Cutler was a productive qb in an offense that has made alot of people look productive. He is going to a QB's Bone yard. If the bears can make doug flutie look like a complete flop do you honestly believe Jay Cutler is gonna walk on water? I could almost understand this kind of trade for mcnabb a proven commodity a guy whos done alot in the nfl but a 25 year old 2 year starter who made one probowl if what I would call a down year if bradys healthy he doesnt make that probowl. Now if the bears can lure shanahan after lovie is fired next season because touchdown jesus doesnt pan out then maybe its a good trade.

bearsfan_51
04-12-2009, 02:56 PM
I guess im inclined to believe that maybe just maybe it was more then Ortons fault that the bears offense was ineffective.
Btw When the vikings gave up the farm for Hershal Walker it was alot diffrent league. The draft had more rounds also there wasnt free agency and restriced free agency where teams lose 4-5 guys almost every year. By no means am I defending the trade it was a horrible trade. But when you look at the whole picture they had the best defese in the league a probowl QB a probowl line that included 2 sure fire hall of famers Zimmerman And McDanial. A defense that Included chris doleman Keith Milliard Joey Browner a pretty good receiving core lead by anthony carter. And they traded for the best kick returner best punt returner leading rusher in the game who was an elite athlete who also starred on the olympic bob sledding team.
My point is this anytime a team gives away 2 first rounders in todays NFL and a third rounder they should atleast get a proven commodity, Im not sure they got that. And there is no way if Im a gm on any team on the nfl I could pull the trigger on that trade. Todays NFL rarely allows you to get true blue chip players out of free agency if they are there there is Baggage. SO you need to make every pick cound. I see the argument they havent done great drafting a qb, But Im not sure they have given any qb the weapons to succeed nor have they given him the time to develop. Jay Cutler was a productive qb in an offense that has made alot of people look productive. He is going to a QB's Bone yard. If the bears can make doug flutie look like a complete flop do you honestly believe Jay Cutler is gonna walk on water? I could almost understand this kind of trade for mcnabb a proven commodity a guy whos done alot in the nfl but a 25 year old 2 year starter who made one probowl if what I would call a down year if bradys healthy he doesnt make that probowl. Now if the bears can lure shanahan after lovie is fired next season because touchdown jesus doesnt pan out then maybe its a good trade.
Cutler is one billion times the quarterback that Flutie could ever hope to be. Flutie is a circus clown that people liked because he was a midget with a mullet. Your opinion of Cutler is extremely skewed.

Kid_Ego
04-12-2009, 03:00 PM
Im not sure how you say that. Shanahan has made a few guys look good. Plummer Greise both of which got traded neither of which panned out. I think Cutler is a product of one hell of an offensive mind and a pretty darn good evalutator of talent Shanahans record speaks for itself. But Cutler is Cocky and Brash I have visions of a young Jeff George

bearsfan_51
04-12-2009, 03:05 PM
Im not sure how you say that. Shanahan has made a few guys look good. Plummer Greise both of which got traded neither of which panned out. I think Cutler is a product of one hell of an offensive mind and a pretty darn good evalutator of talent Shanahans record speaks for itself. But Cutler is Cocky and Brash I have visions of a young Jeff George
Cutler is cocky and brash? Could you provide some examples? Furthermore, I'd say that probably 95% of all NFL quarterbacks are cocky and brash. To say that he'll be the next Jeff George is just an absurd leap to make, whether you heard that from someone else or not.

As for Plummer or Griese, all you have to do is watch a game to see that Cutler completely seperates himself from the other two. I honestly question if you've ever seen Cutler play in your life. You say that stats don't matter to you, so what exactly are you basing your opinion on?

Kid_Ego
04-12-2009, 03:30 PM
Im not saying stats dont matter Im saying Plummer and Greise put up similar stats with the same system. Much like the Dennis green vikingshe used like 9 diffrent starting qbs and they all prospered. The Bars dont have that kind of offense under Lovie nor do they have the kind of talent on their roster to make that leap. Orton wasnt that bad he had very few weapons. I think the bears would of been better off drafting a true wide out someone who actually is a true number 1. thy basically hav 3 number 3's Hester is one of the best special teamers in the nfl but he isnt even an average wide out and he sure as hell isnt a number one. I guess if i was the bears gm i would of kept the pick addressed the ol concerns. tried to acquire torry holt or marvin harrison someone who may be able to make my young wide outs better. Then if i truly felt a need to bring in a qb I would of made a move for mcnabb he an be had. Probably for 1 1st next year. now i have an ol line a proven wide out and most of my draft picks. along with Chicagos own McNabb who is a proven winner. Not take a chance on a qb who has a losing record threw a temper tantrum after being mentioned in a trade. Nevermind th fact Bowlin did the exact same thing to John Elway in the early 90's and then went an drafted his supposed replacement the same year. No tantrums were throw he just went out kept his starting job and won 2 super bowls.

swiftizm
04-13-2009, 01:36 AM
Im tired of non Bears fans bashing on this trade...you are just JEALOUS. You are trying to justify why your team didnt trade away a couple of picks to land a 25 year old Pro Bowl QB who has one of if not THE BEST arm in the league.

For Bears fans this is the best move EVER.
You dont know what its like to watch Bears games for 20 years and NEVER have anyone even average at the QB position. We now have a STUD at QB. Our team is 5x better just by adding Cutler.

Can anyone honestly say that we wouldnt have SMASHED the Colts in the Super Bowl if we would have had Cutler instead of Grossman?

Our Defense is still GREAT. The reason last years stats were bad is because they were TIRED. Kyle Orton led 3 and out drives nearly 80% of the time!!!

That means he couldnt even pick up one friggin first down 80% of the time...and then our D would come right back out...they wore down...we will not only move the chains this year, but we will SCORE.

The NFC North is ours. Easily. Just wait...you all know you are scared to see Cutler chucking the ball downfield to Devin Hester..and then Forte running all over people without 8 men in the box....ooooooh baby!@

swiftizm
04-13-2009, 01:39 AM
Whoa...and Cutler had a right to be upset...he wasnt mad that they were shopping him, he was mad that McDaniels LIED TO HIM.

McDaniels told him he wasnt shopping him...he lied!!!

Put yourself in Cutlers shoes. You are 25 years old...you throw for 4,000 yards and make the pro bowl. Your team has a HORRIBLE defense.

Now...your coach gets fired and this new guy (WHO HAS NEVER COACHED BEFORE) comes in and the first thing he does is shop the best player on the team?? And then lie to him???

And its not like he was trying to trade him for Tom Brady or a PROVEN NFL QB. But a system QB who didnt even start a single college game. Wow.

I'd be mad too. And Cutler had never complained or whined about anything in his 3 years in the NFL. He was a warrior, and would get knocked down, and then stand right back up and stare down the opposing team and compete. He is a true competitor.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
04-13-2009, 09:10 AM
Im tired of non Bears fans bashing on this trade...you are just JEALOUS. You are trying to justify why your team didnt trade away a couple of picks to land a 25 year old Pro Bowl QB who has one of if not THE BEST arm in the league.

For Bears fans this is the best move EVER.
You dont know what its like to watch Bears games for 20 years and NEVER have anyone even average at the QB position. We now have a STUD at QB. Our team is 5x better just by adding Cutler.

Can anyone honestly say that we wouldnt have SMASHED the Colts in the Super Bowl if we would have had Cutler instead of Grossman?

Our Defense is still GREAT. The reason last years stats were bad is because they were TIRED. Kyle Orton led 3 and out drives nearly 80% of the time!!!

That means he couldnt even pick up one friggin first down 80% of the time...and then our D would come right back out...they wore down...we will not only move the chains this year, but we will SCORE.

The NFC North is ours. Easily. Just wait...you all know you are scared to see Cutler chucking the ball downfield to Devin Hester..and then Forte running all over people without 8 men in the box....ooooooh baby!@

Some valid points except your D still being great, its very good in run defense(top 5), but the secondary has some holes and pass rush needs to be fixed by Marinelli. I think this job will truly tell how much of a Dline guru Rod really is. Anderson,Brown,Ogunleye,Harris have enough talent, in Detroit Rod had his guys in his mold(which was a mistake due to being vastly undersized) but made due in 2007 with Shaun Rogers. With the Bucs, Rice and Sapp in their primes is tough to screw up.

And the winning the North easily is absurd. Not the potential to win part but the easily part. Vikings and Packers will be tough as well. Vikings more so than Packers but we'll see how that 3-4 works out for them, the Pack offense is very good and they have a good QB too.

Addict
04-13-2009, 09:15 AM
Im tired of non Bears fans bashing on this trade...you are just JEALOUS. You are trying to justify why your team didnt trade away a couple of picks to land a 25 year old Pro Bowl QB who has one of if not THE BEST arm in the league.

For Bears fans this is the best move EVER.
You dont know what its like to watch Bears games for 20 years and NEVER have anyone even average at the QB position. We now have a STUD at QB. Our team is 5x better just by adding Cutler.

Can anyone honestly say that we wouldnt have SMASHED the Colts in the Super Bowl if we would have had Cutler instead of Grossman?

Our Defense is still GREAT. The reason last years stats were bad is because they were TIRED. Kyle Orton led 3 and out drives nearly 80% of the time!!!

That means he couldnt even pick up one friggin first down 80% of the time...and then our D would come right back out...they wore down...we will not only move the chains this year, but we will SCORE.

The NFC North is ours. Easily. Just wait...you all know you are scared to see Cutler chucking the ball downfield to Devin Hester..and then Forte running all over people without 8 men in the box....ooooooh baby!@

First of all, stop capitalizing random words. Second of all, you're overexcited, take a chill pill. yes the trade was good, yes it really helps the bears. But Cutler doesn't have the greatest arm in the NFL (that arm resides in oakland). Orton played well, Cutler will likely play better. That's about it. The bears still have their share of troubles (secondary and O-line come to mind).

There's a difference between optimism, overexcitement and plain homerism, and you fall somewhere between the latter two.

Somse
04-13-2009, 10:29 AM
Im tired of non Bears fans bashing on this trade...you are just JEALOUS. You are trying to justify why your team didnt trade away a couple of picks to land a 25 year old Pro Bowl QB who has one of if not THE BEST arm in the league.

For Bears fans this is the best move EVER.
You dont know what its like to watch Bears games for 20 years and NEVER have anyone even average at the QB position. We now have a STUD at QB. Our team is 5x better just by adding Cutler.

Can anyone honestly say that we wouldnt have SMASHED the Colts in the Super Bowl if we would have had Cutler instead of Grossman?

Our Defense is still GREAT. The reason last years stats were bad is because they were TIRED. Kyle Orton led 3 and out drives nearly 80% of the time!!!

That means he couldnt even pick up one friggin first down 80% of the time...and then our D would come right back out...they wore down...we will not only move the chains this year, but we will SCORE.

The NFC North is ours. Easily. Just wait...you all know you are scared to see Cutler chucking the ball downfield to Devin Hester..and then Forte running all over people without 8 men in the box....ooooooh baby!@

It's a big risk is all. If Cutler doesn't pan out in Chicago they are in a world of trouble for years. Anytime you trade away what Chicago did you're exposing yourself to the potential of setting the franchise back years.

That said, Cutler is a good QB and should be an upgrade in Chicago. How much of one? Well, that's up in the air and your guess is as good as mine. I can't imagine he'll replicate his success in Denver unless Chicago really upgrades their offense because they still have some serious question marks on that side of the ball.

As for easily winning the division...come on. The Vikings are practically the same team they were last season albeit with some new additions. The Packers could easily revert back to a playoff team and win the division depending on what happens with their defense.

Realistically I think all 3 teams have pretty much an even chance at this point. All 3 teams have serious question marks and to say any of the 3 is a clear-cut favourite is just homerism.

Kid_Ego
04-13-2009, 12:28 PM
Im glad someone else can see it. Seriously Joe Montana never had the strongest arm. And Jay Touchdown Jesus Cutler isnt that special 2 first rounders come on the guy hasnt sniffed the play offs his probowl year is more of a fluke then anything if brady is healthy simply put this kid still hasnt played in a pro bowl. I truely believe that he wsnt even a top 5 qb in that confrence. Tom Brady Manning Rivers Collins pennington all out played him not to mention Farve. All have won play off games all have carried their teams at some point. Cutler is now in a less effective offense which doesnt support a 4000 yrd passer. the sacks say as much about his new offensive line as it does Ortons ability. Besides point blank the afc west is very soft division we have the lions but they have the raiders and cheifs neither have even been competitive the last 2 years. Those should be two give mes every year.
Cutler is on record as saying he has a stronger arm then elway and throws the football harder then favre I would say to cutler DO some thing anything then we will talk. those boys have played in seven superbowls and countless playoffs games.cutler O
Greise and Plummer pu up similar numbers while at denver. Im just saying 3 picks for a unproven commodity is extremely steep in todays NFL.
Now the same trade for McNabb I would understand yeh hes aging but hes also been to a few championship games and a super bowl if the qb position is the only position you need sure pull the trigger. That isnt the case at chicago

Maybe Next Year Millen2
04-13-2009, 01:04 PM
Im glad someone else can see it. Seriously Joe Montana never had the strongest arm. And Jay Touchdown Jesus Cutler isnt that special 2 first rounders come on the guy hasnt sniffed the play offs his probowl year is more of a fluke then anything if brady is healthy simply put this kid still hasnt played in a pro bowl. I truely believe that he wsnt even a top 5 qb in that confrence. Tom Brady Manning Rivers Collins pennington all out played him not to mention Farve. All have won play off games all have carried their teams at some point. Cutler is now in a less effective offense which doesnt support a 4000 yrd passer. the sacks say as much about his new offensive line as it does Ortons ability. Besides point blank the afc west is very soft division we have the lions but they have the raiders and cheifs neither have even been competitive the last 2 years. Those should be two give mes every year.
Cutler is on record as saying he has a stronger arm then elway and throws the football harder then favre I would say to cutler DO some thing anything then we will talk. those boys have played in seven superbowls and countless playoffs games.cutler O
Greise and Plummer pu up similar numbers while at denver. Im just saying 3 picks for a unproven commodity is extremely steep in todays NFL.
Now the same trade for McNabb I would understand yeh hes aging but hes also been to a few championship games and a super bowl if the qb position is the only position you need sure pull the trigger. That isnt the case at chicago

Plummer threw for 4,000 yard(4,089) once in 4 seasons. Griese never got close to a 4,000 yard season. One year he had a very good Td to Int ratio 19-4 in like 2000 but only like 2,600 yards and got hurt. Denver had much better defenses in the early to mid 2000s. Cutler is a better QB than Plummer and Griese and Cutler has way more potential(although Plummer was a decent QB in his time, just not franchise material which is why Shanahan wanted Cutler). Orton was decent last year especially mid season before the injury. However, Cutler has way more potential still and is coming off a monster season.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PlumJa00.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GrieBr00.htm

Saying Kerry Collins and Brett Favre are better than Cutler last season is just absurd. And even Pennington. Favre fizzled big time, Collins is only a game manager at this point in his career and Pennington had a miraculous year and then does terrible in the playoffs.

Cutler is going to be tough to play in the upcoming years, much like Rodgers. Vikings are tough for other reasons but won't get far unless Sage protects the ball better than Frerotte and Jackson do. And even so, the Vikes will have to rely on Sage at some point(maybe in a playoff game) and I just don't see him answering the call. I could see Cutler or Rodgers answering the call and why Detroit should start the rebuilding with Stafford.

bearsfan_51
04-13-2009, 01:51 PM
The Bears are, and should, be the favorites to win the division next year. Easily is an absurd comment I agree, as nothing comes easy, but you're talking about a team that won 9 games last year with a severe lack of talent. No team has improved as much in the offseason as the Bears have, in fact it seems as if the Vikings didn't even try, and most of the Packers improvements so far have been schematic, not in terms of talent.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
04-13-2009, 03:22 PM
The Bears are, and should, be the favorites to win the division next year. Easily is an absurd comment I agree, as nothing comes easy, but you're talking about a team that won 9 games last year with a severe lack of talent. No team has improved as much in the offseason as the Bears have, in fact it seems as if the Vikings didn't even try, and most of the Packers improvements so far have been schematic, not in terms of talent.

Vikes could still be the favorite IMO. I'd reserve that until after the draft. They could shore up one hole(not many left) with pick 22 and Holt/Harrison are still out there waiting to compliment Berrian. QB is still lacking in Minni but it's been slight upgraded IMO. The North matchups(other than the Lions games, although they stayed close in 5 of 6 North games last year with absolutley no talent) will be very tough as usual. Two North teams will make the playoffs this year playing the NFC West, Lions twice,Bengals and Cleveland. Bears,Vikes,Packers are better than all those teams except maybe the Cards(and Bears get Cards at home and Vikes could easily stomp the Cards again if Cards revert to mediocre). Then its a matter of the North battles and staying .500 against Pit/Baltimore/NFC East/South opponent.

And the Bears did have talent last year. Top 5 rush D, same pass rushers coming back althogh them stepping up will be a big factor too(double digit sack guy needed and Anderson needs more than 1 sack), Orton played well in a mid season spurt so QB play wasn't awful, more decent, Forte is talented and Hester/Olson are the receiving threats again at this point.

Cutler will be a huge factor, but Bears season also hinges on health of Pace(questionable),play of guards/rookie essentially RT, generating some sort of pass rush(Lions 30 sacks, Bears 28 last year), and much better secondary play. I could see a 3 way split again with all the contending North teams and who knows which key players get hurt and when and how the depth is behind them. Each team will have at least 1-2.

Monomach
04-13-2009, 04:42 PM
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/drivechart?game_id=29544&displayPage=tab_drive_chart&season=2008&week=REG2&override=true
look at drive charts from the Bears losses. Panther game as 1 example:

from the 2nd quarter on:

2nd Quarter
Time Poss Drive Began # of Plays /Net Yards/Result
1:17 CHI 25 3 /-8 /Punt
0:35 CHI 9 3 /-2 /Punt
0:12 CHI 18 1/-1 /End of Half
3rd Quarter
Time Poss Drive Began # ofPlays/ Net Yards / Result
2:50 CHI 18 5/26 /Punt
2:01 CAR 23 4/23/Touchdown
0:18 CHI 23 1/9 /Fumble
1:44 CHI 20 3/7 /Punt
4th Quarter
Time Poss Drive Began # ofPlays /Net Yards/Result
3:23 CHI 12 7/15/Punt
1:33 CHI 10 3/3/Punt
0:57 CHI 29 3/-4 /Punt
0:32 CHI 41 4/9 /Downs

See why the Bears lost that Panther game now? That kind of dismal offensive output killed the D. They couldn't even move the chains.

We know how bad Kyle and the offense played against the 1st Packers, and 2nd Vikings games so charts not necessary to post. Not to mention Kyle/offense played garbage for most of the ATL and TB games, but there was enough blame to go all around there, as well as the Texans game. Defense also bailed Kyle/offense out of the Philly game (where posted a 0.0 2nd half rating), Saints, and 2nd Packer game.

Orton only had 2 impressive games: The 1st Lions and 1st Vikings games.

Your sample size of less than one game fails. Here's some drive charts for you:

Houston
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/drivechart?gameId=281228034

Doesn't appear that the defense had any reason to be tired before they collapsed there. 7ish minutes on the field over two quarters before they decided it would be fun to watch the Andre Johnson show.



Tampa
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/drivechart?gameId=280921003

In this one, Orton beat Tampa in time of possession by quite a bit. What happened? The defense STILL managed to give up 407 passing yards to a QB they threw away last offseason.



...and let's not forget the Atlanta game when the defense started things off by allowing first quarter drives of 6 minutes and 5.5 minutes. You know why they were tired? It's because they sucked. Do you recall how that game ended? Orton gave them the lead with 11 seconds left. After the kick, they had to hold Atlanta down for just 6 seconds. I guess they were just too tired despite Orton only making them play 10 minutes of the second half.

Kid_Ego
04-13-2009, 08:23 PM
This is mute your right Touchdown jesus will lead the league in passing and turn the bears into the second coming of the 99 rams. Because hes that good. Forte will all of a sudden morph in to marshall faulk and rasheed davis and devin hester will suddenly run good routes and become Isiac bruce torry holt. Isn't that what you want to hear?

And then next time next year the Broncos will use the pick they stole from the bears and draft Sam Bradford qb number one over all

85BearFan
04-14-2009, 11:30 AM
Your sample size of less than one game fails. Here's some drive charts for you:

Houston
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/drivechart?gameId=281228034

Doesn't appear that the defense had any reason to be tired before they collapsed there. 7ish minutes on the field over two quarters before they decided it would be fun to watch the Andre Johnson show.



Tampa
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/drivechart?gameId=280921003

In this one, Orton beat Tampa in time of possession by quite a bit. What happened? The defense STILL managed to give up 407 passing yards to a QB they threw away last offseason.



...and let's not forget the Atlanta game when the defense started things off by allowing first quarter drives of 6 minutes and 5.5 minutes. You know why they were tired? It's because they sucked. Do you recall how that game ended? Orton gave them the lead with 11 seconds left. After the kick, they had to hold Atlanta down for just 6 seconds. I guess they were just too tired despite Orton only making them play 10 minutes of the second half.

Either I wrote that bad, you misunderstood, or both. I didn't blame every loss on Kyle/offense. I said even though Kyle played awful for a lot of the ATL/TB games, that there was enough blame to go around (i.e. including the defense choking), and then added in the Texans game (more blame on defense than KO). Just refer to my initial post, I stated we are a 12-13 win team with Cutler in '08. Kyle gets blame for Panthers, 1st GB game, and 2nd Viking game. I also noted how the defense saved Kyle. I stated nothing but facts.

But here is the point that you can't avoid. Maybe you're a Orton sympathizer, I really don't know, because it seems you took offense to what I wrote. However, I will quote my ENTIRE statement, the one you chose to hack off to your liking:

The Bears uncharacteristically blew several 4th quarter leads last year, due to the defense being tired because of the inept offense constantly going 3 and out. With Cutler, we know he can keep the chains moving, and keep the defense off the field.

The main crux of my argument was that Cutler >>> Orton, because he's superior at converting 3rd downs or moving the chains, keeping the D off the field (also help win field position battle).

Cutler helped convert 47.5% of his team's 3rd downs.
Orton helped convert 35.6% of his team's 3rd downs.

Now it should be clear to you, why I said what I said. It should also be clear, why the Bears paid as much as they did for Cutler, AND using Orton as a throw in.

Orton constantly put the defense in tough position. Sometimes the D was able to bail Orton out, but couldn't most of the time.

This is a great time for Bear fans, we got a legit QB, no need to upset yourself defending someone as average as Orton.

Bearsfan123
04-14-2009, 01:01 PM
ill try to keep myself leveled. Cutler is a great young QB who has mobility, arm strength and deep ball accuracy. Three attributes that make him a perfect qb for where the Bears play and how porous our o-line is. His competitive fire brings Bears fans back to Jim Mcmahon and his attitude (as well as Da Coach). But beyond what is on the field, we Bears fans now have a sense of security at the QB position. No more roulette. No more shuffling. He will be a promotional god for the franchise and he has the personality that our history has adored. I heard on the radio that he isnt 2 first rd and a 3rd rd pick better than Kyle Orton and I agree, but for the mental edge of believing in a qb the trade was worth it.

My rankings of the North's QBs
1 Jay Cutler- Narrowly over Rogers (sp?) His durability being the aspect that allowed me to put him over Aaron.
2 Aaron Rogers-Great young qb, hope he stays healthy to prove it. (well i hope he doesnt have to play the bears though ;P )
3-4- Is a mess 4-5 names can go here. Daunte Culpepper, Tavaris Jackson, Matthew Stafford...

Kid_Ego
04-14-2009, 01:47 PM
And as I said if shanahan ends up at the bears the that equalizes te trade

regoob2
04-14-2009, 02:06 PM
And as I said if shanahan ends up at the bears the that equalizes te trade
what??????

Kid_Ego
04-14-2009, 04:58 PM
If Shanahan ends up being the bears coach after Lovie gets fired next year. I think then the trade makes alot of sense

Boston
04-14-2009, 08:25 PM
If Shanahan ends up being the bears coach after Lovie gets fired next year. I think then the trade makes alot of sense

http://topbanana.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/confused.jpg

Everybody knows that Rodgers always has been and always will be the best QB in the North, and the entire NFL for that matter.

jsa230
04-15-2009, 12:08 AM
so, in your honest opinion, how much better do you think cutler is then ar

TitleTown088
04-15-2009, 01:10 AM
Nice, a classic BF51 rant, haven't seen that in awhile.


Rodgers did statistically better last year than Cutler has in any season thus far. However, one throws out the argument that " stats" don't prove everything (What the reveal is suggestive, but what they hide is vital, aye?) Let's take a look at what the stats didn't need to prove... The stats didn't prove that Cutler was far from a Champion this far, same as Rodgers. The stats didn't prove that Cutler cost a 1st and a 3rd more than Rodgers. The stats didn't prove that Cutler is cry baby, Rodgers is not. Those things were proven all by their own.

Not to mention he'll be in a worse receiving offense and a " new system".




Actually, I'll be original... Stafford!

Kid_Ego
04-15-2009, 05:21 PM
Finally a packer fan I agree with. Second of all the most important stat Orton got sacked twice as much with a running game. and he really has only started one season so lets look at cutlers first season as a starter not to mention cutler had the luxury of knowing he was the starter while Orton looked over his shoulder.

Kid_Ego
04-15-2009, 05:22 PM
Im sure title town remembers Brett Favre when they had mar kbrunell completely diffrent qb then when he had no comp at qb

VoteLynnSwan
04-15-2009, 05:27 PM
Finally a packer fan I agree with. Second of all the most important stat Orton got sacked twice as much with a running game. and he really has only started one season so lets look at cutlers first season as a starter not to mention cutler had the luxury of knowing he was the starter while Orton looked over his shoulder.

Orton started something like 13 games as a Rookie... so take a look at those stats and compare the two... you'll clearly see Orton is worthless.

I honestly can't believe you are arguing that Cutler isn't that much of an improvement over Orton.

It was a steep price to pay, giving up 2 first round picks is a lot... but have you looked at the Bears track record with 1st rounders? They probably woulda busted anyway.

At least now we have a guy who has proven that he can play at an NFL level.

TitleTown088
04-16-2009, 10:28 AM
Im sure title town remembers Brett Favre when they had mar kbrunell completely diffrent qb then when he had no comp at qb

I'm sure most do. But of what significance is it? I remember Hasselback and Brooks too. Now what?

jsa230
04-17-2009, 12:34 AM
Seriuosly man, i think everyone has made a dumb/irellevent/silly/homer/ets. post on this forum at some time or another. It is to the point where one has to question why kidego continues to post these types of post not only consistently but i think they get less and less intelligent each time he burdens our mind with reading his useless posts. Seriously man think before you post, please. O, and proofreading your post critically to ensure the post makes a lick of effin sense could not hurt you.

Kid_Ego
04-18-2009, 01:49 PM
Once the packers got rid of the competition Brett settled down and became a better more consistant QB. My Point is anytime you have 2 starting qbs you have Zero starting qb's.

Gay Ork Wang
04-18-2009, 01:51 PM
Once the packers got rid of the competition Brett settled down and became a better more consistant QB. My Point is anytime you have 2 starting qbs you have Zero starting qb's.
thats why they traded one and got another. Whats ur point?

Kid_Ego
04-18-2009, 01:59 PM
My point is this Orton hasnt had a chance to develo the bears havent let him develop always having an open comp for his job. Not letting him get secure. When a franchise does this the usually end up with nothing.

bearsfan_51
04-18-2009, 02:10 PM
My point is this Orton hasnt had a chance to develo the bears havent let him develop always having an open comp for his job. Not letting him get secure. When a franchise does this the usually end up with nothing.

That's because he isn't good. If he was, they would have handed him the job on a silver platter instead of trading him away with multiple picks for the real deal.

Even the Broncos are making Orton compete, and that's against a guy who hasn't done **** since 2006.

Gay Ork Wang
04-18-2009, 02:12 PM
My point is this Orton hasnt had a chance to develo the bears havent let him develop always having an open comp for his job. Not letting him get secure. When a franchise does this the usually end up with nothing.
if u cant beat out Sexy Rex for years i think it has to stand for something