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View Full Version : Goodell urges crackdown on cheating in memo to competition committee


Dam8610
03-07-2008, 09:00 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/06/AR2008030603654.html

Thoughts?

princefielder28
03-07-2008, 09:55 AM
Roger laying the smackdown

RAZERSAINTS
03-07-2008, 09:57 AM
about time....

Jay
03-07-2008, 10:04 AM
He also sent out a memo on January 30th telling teams not to talk to players or coaches who were currently undr contract with another team and we see how far that went...

Gay Ork Wang
03-07-2008, 10:05 AM
yay over/under for 20 post of jay in this thread? over for me

btw werent the 49ners like warned because they talked to Briggs to early or sth?

SaintsFanForLife
03-07-2008, 10:25 AM
I disregard almost every memo I get....Looks like the NFL teams feel the same...

Dam8610
03-07-2008, 12:12 PM
He also sent out a memo on January 30th telling teams not to talk to players or coaches who were currently undr contract with another team and we see how far that went...

Why is it that when any thread with the word "cheat" in its title shows up, you have to show up and whine about something?

Thunder&Lightning
03-07-2008, 12:14 PM
Why is it that when any thread with the word "cheat" in its title shows up, you have to show up and whine about something?

hahaha o dear...

Cashmoney
03-07-2008, 12:14 PM
Why is it that when any thread with the word "cheat" in its title shows up, you have to show up and whine about something?

Im gonna go out on a limb here and say because he's from Massachussetts he's also a Patriots fan. That is probably your answer.

roidrunner
03-07-2008, 12:20 PM
im willing to bet that the first team that they will check out will be the pats. LOL. But otherwise i like the idea. keeps teams honest.

Matthew Jones
03-08-2008, 09:43 AM
How about not starting topics that are deliberately created to cause arguments? What if I made a topic called "Goodell urges crackdown on coaches who do not support *** rights"?

JK17
03-08-2008, 10:02 AM
How about not starting topics that are deliberately created to cause arguments? What if I made a topic called "Goodell urges crackdown on coaches who do not support *** rights"?

Well it would probably be locked, mainly because it didn't happen, but also because I'm pretty sure that would start to violate a lot of forums rules...

whereas this memo actually did happen, is news, and people want to discuss it...

Boston
03-08-2008, 12:55 PM
How about not starting topics that are deliberately created to cause arguments? What if I made a topic called "Goodell urges crackdown on coaches who do not support *** rights"?

Why don't you stop whining.

Iamcanadian
03-08-2008, 01:47 PM
I think this guy will be fired sooner rather than later. I think the owners are getting sick of him bringing their league into disrepute.

bigbluedefense
03-08-2008, 02:22 PM
I think this guy will be fired sooner rather than later. I think the owners are getting sick of him bringing their league into disrepute.

no way. Goodell is the best thing that happened to football. he's cleaning up the mess that Tagliabue created and did nothing to solve.

Just look at the extreme drop off in player thug activities just this year alone. Goodell is doing a great job, and is very proactive in making the league better in whichever way he can.

He's a great commissioner.

Its Ya Boy
03-08-2008, 03:29 PM
no way. Goodell is the best thing that happened to football. he's cleaning up the mess that Tagliabue created and did nothing to solve.

Just look at the extreme drop off in player thug activities just this year alone. Goodell is doing a great job, and is very proactive in making the league better in whichever way he can.

He's a great commissioner.

whats player thug activities? is that like starting a meth lab?

Dam8610
03-08-2008, 03:36 PM
How about not starting topics that are deliberately created to cause arguments? What if I made a topic called "Goodell urges crackdown on coaches who do not support *** rights"?

How about quit being so self-important because it was your team that cheated and realize that this is something that affects all 32 teams, since it's an integrity of the game issue (all teams are going to lose fans if the integrity of the game can't be trusted), and the NFL won't only be conducting these inspections on the Patriots. That doesn't mean they'll find anything anywhere, but it's still a newsworthy item. Goodell is urging the competition committee to change the rules so that the integrity of the game isn't violated again. What's not to like about that?

Geo
03-08-2008, 03:42 PM
I also think this is a great move by the Commish, although hopefully he doesn't hurt the integrity of the league and the league office by doing ridiculous favors for certain people when their franchise is caught, like he did with Robert Kraft in the Spygate brouhaha. (Funny how we haven't heard Matt Walsh talk yet, btw.)

And hey, if the Colts are cheating, I hope they're caught. My feelings are league-wide: don't friggin' cheat.

The big thing the league needs now is a test for HGH. I'd like to see how super those San Diego Super-Chargers are then ...

bigbluedefense
03-08-2008, 04:13 PM
I also think this is a great move by the Commish, although hopefully he doesn't hurt the integrity of the league and the league office by doing ridiculous favors for certain people when their franchise is caught, like he did with Robert Kraft in the Spygate brouhaha. (Funny how we haven't heard Matt Walsh talk yet, btw.)

And hey, if the Colts are cheating, I hope they're caught. My feelings are league-wide: don't friggin' cheat.

The big thing the league needs now is a test for HGH. I'd like to see how super those San Diego Super-Chargers are then ...

im tellin you, HGH is a league problem, not just the chargers. the day we get a test for HGH, expect to see a rather large change in the league. players will get smaller, and injuries will increase 10fold across the board.

i don't think we should ban HGH, but there should be restrictions. its actually very useful when used as a healer.

diabsoule
03-08-2008, 06:49 PM
I hope everyone got the memo.

Iamcanadian
03-08-2008, 10:02 PM
How about quit being so self-important because it was your team that cheated and realize that this is something that affects all 32 teams, since it's an integrity of the game issue (all teams are going to lose fans if the integrity of the game can't be trusted), and the NFL won't only be conducting these inspections on the Patriots. That doesn't mean they'll find anything anywhere, but it's still a newsworthy item. Goodell is urging the competition committee to change the rules so that the integrity of the game isn't violated again. What's not to like about that?

Realistically, they all cheat in one way or another and if it is brought up every day for the next 2 years and the NFL sees their TV revenue affected negatively, I'm sure the owners will love him.

JK17
03-09-2008, 04:58 PM
The big thing the league needs now is a test for HGH. I'd like to see how super those San Diego Super-Chargers are then ...

So because Shawne Merriman tested positive for nandralone and Rodney Harrison said he had been doing it after he left the Chargers, the Chargers have an HGH problem? And they're the only team?

Gay Ork Wang
03-10-2008, 08:43 AM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8071f660&template=without-video&confirm=true

didnt want to open a new thread. Its going to be interesting

Dam8610
03-10-2008, 09:00 AM
Realistically, they all cheat in one way or another and if it is brought up every day for the next 2 years and the NFL sees their TV revenue affected negatively, I'm sure the owners will love him.

How do you know that every team cheats? Do you have any proof? If not, it's a baseless shot at 31 teams. It doesn't matter how many people say everyone cheats, until there's proof, it's only fair to assume innocence.

Jay
03-10-2008, 10:18 AM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8071f660&template=without-video&confirm=true

didnt want to open a new thread. Its going to be interesting

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2008/03/10/to_some_a_vindictive_videotaper/

Didn't want to open a new thread. It's going to be interesting.

Jay
03-10-2008, 10:20 AM
Why is it that when any thread with the word "cheat" in its title shows up, you have to show up and whine about something?

Why is it that any time anything related to the Patriots pops up, you show up and whine about something?

I could have started a new thread about other league-wide memos that resulted in multiple violations of said memo, but chose not to. But I know, all you "rational" lemmings are on board the "tampering is OK" train.

So whatev. This rule is in place for E-V-E-R-Y-B-O-D-Y, and that fact has nothing to do with one team getting busted...

Gay Ork Wang
03-10-2008, 11:15 AM
i just wanted to get this cleared and move on

Jay
03-10-2008, 11:25 AM
You and I couldn't agree with each other more on that.

Dam8610
03-10-2008, 04:17 PM
Why is it that any time anything related to the Patriots pops up, you show up and whine about something?

See, here's the difference: I don't do that, whereas you have to post something trying to defend your precious Patriots on any thread that contains the word "cheat". Do you run a daily search for it? I'll openly admit I dislike the Patriots, not shocking coming from a Colts fan, but I don't go around any time I see a Patriots thread and post something negative about Spygate or their 2007 season or any number of other things that could detract from the original discussion, which seems to be your primary and perhaps sole goal of posting in these threads. I guess you figure if you agitate and annoy enough, people will stop talking about it, when in reality all you're doing is stoking the fire. If you see a topic you don't like, why bother looking at it?

I could have started a new thread about other league-wide memos that resulted in multiple violations of said memo, but chose not to. But I know, all you "rational" lemmings are on board the "tampering is OK" train.

If you can PROVE that someone tampered with another team's free agents (more than an article suspecting it will be required), then I'd be all for that team getting the appropriate punishment. That, however, has absolutely no relevance here whatsoever, as this is a discussion about Goodell urging the competition committee to take measures that would make cheating far more difficult in the league, and considering how much whining you do about teams cheating in threads like that have the word "cheat" in them, I'd think it would be something you'd be quite interested in discussing...unless of course you have some alterior motive behind your constant complaining about teams cheating...

So whatev. This rule is in place for E-V-E-R-Y-B-O-D-Y, and that fact has nothing to do with one team getting busted...

Hey, you finally got a general idea of what this thread is about, congratulations!

Iamcanadian
03-10-2008, 09:01 PM
How do you know that every team cheats? Do you have any proof? If not, it's a baseless shot at 31 teams. It doesn't matter how many people say everyone cheats, until there's proof, it's only fair to assume innocence.


There are so many reported cases of cheating with a lot of HC's admitting they did it that only a fool would think 31 teams are innocent. The NFL just hasn't taken the time to go after cheaters because it had become part of the game.
You don't really think HC's sending in signals cover their mouths or have people shield them with towels because they bewlieve 31 teams don't cheat do you???

Jay
03-11-2008, 07:16 AM
That, however, has absolutely no relevance here whatsoever, as this is a discussion about Goodell urging the competition committee to take measures that would make cheating far more difficult in the league,

Well maybe one of us needs to do a little research into what tampering is... and here's a hint... it's you.

That same proposal also stated they plan to make it easier to impose penalties with less evidence... HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM......

Justin Smiley, Tony Sparano and Asante Samuel. Three clear cut cases of tampering. No proof necessary. It's all in the media. Burn 'em at the stake. That's what the mob mentality does here right? **** the facts, just sort it out later.

And blah, blah, blah, the spinsters strike again. I could spend the next five minutes concocting some witty response about you waving your blue pompoms and pictures of Peyton Manning in precarious positions, but I digress. Just get the **** over it already.

Dam8610
03-11-2008, 09:00 AM
You don't really think HC's sending in signals cover their mouths or have people shield them with towels because they bewlieve 31 teams don't cheat do you???

You don't really think trying to steal signals on the sideline, during the game, is illegal, do you? Head coaches and OCs cover their mouths when calling plays because everyone knows that a long playcall is a pass play.

That same proposal also stated they plan to make it easier to impose penalties with less evidence... HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM......

Thank you captain obvious, I believe I said that.

Justin Smiley, Tony Sparano and Asante Samuel. Three clear cut cases of tampering. No proof necessary. It's all in the media. Burn 'em at the stake.

So because you think there's tampering because of media reports, no proof is necessary? This from someone who has vehemently defended the rights of cheaters? Seems a tad hypocritical...

That's what the mob mentality does here right? **** the facts, just sort it out later.

Right, because everyone here randomly accused the Patriots of cheating for years until this evidence came out. Please get a grip on reality. It'll make things easier for everyone here.

And blah, blah, blah, the spinsters strike again. I could spend the next five minutes concocting some witty response about you waving your blue pompoms and pictures of Peyton Manning in precarious positions, but I digress. Just get the **** over it already.

Sure, my only interest in anything about cheating is that I'm a Colts fan. I don't happen to be a football fan that cares about the integrity of the game. Nope, just a Colts fan being bitter. Again, please get a grip on reality.

Jay
03-11-2008, 10:45 AM
Dam8610:

No, you don't. I've said it all along that if this happened to any other team, no one would care, yourself included. This is why no one cares about the Jets being caught filming from an area against NFL rules in Foxboro, and another reason no one cares about the wink-wink, nudge-nudge deal between Tony Dungy and Jeff Fisher. And it's the same reason no one cares about tampering, much less the fact that they get away with saying "everyone is doing it." You're right, there is a lot of hypocrisy, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why it gets Patriot fans bent out of shape. We see all these other blatant disregards for NFL rules and policy go unpunished and blatantly not cared about, while we're evil and dastardly for doing something that, wait for it, everyone was doing. But God knows you're not going to let me get away with saying "everyone was doing it."

And no, teams do not cover their mouths or sheild signals because taking a long time means it is a pass. Are you that freaking gullible? I mean seriously. Do I even need to explain how flawed that assessment is?

And yes, you can use the media as a source, especially when it has direct quotes, cited, attributed to people involved in the situation. It's a crock of **** and we all know it.

If I am a Dallas Cowboys fan, I am PISSED. How do we know their team was as prepared as they should have been with a number of members in the organization packing bags and getting ready to go to Miami?

If I am a Cleveland Browns fan, I am PISSED and want some answers as to why two teams with members on the competition committee can come to an "understanding" on how a game is going to be played. That one sure got squashed quick though. No moral outrage there, and that would be 10 times worse then any filming the Patriots could EVER do. And yeah, we can play semantic games and say the Browns should have taken care of their own business, but the Giants had absolutely nothing to play for in week 17 and they put up a game for the ages against the Pats. The Pats

I don't think I am being unreasonable for expecting everyone to treat every team the same. I am fine with the fact that we broke a rule, were heavily penalized and whatever. We were wrong. No one has ever claimed otherwise. I am just tired of the hypocrisy. I am tired of everyone talking in circles. I am tired of everyone assuming the worst with when it comes to this but assuming nothing happened when it comes to everyone else. I am tired of Pats fans getting singled out every time something goes down. It is definitely a mob mentality against us. It doesn't matter what we say. It doesn't.

I didn't see anyone rushing to talk about the lawsuit in New Orleans being dropped when it was certainly posted within minutes of it being filed. I didn't see anyone posting articles to discredit Matt Walsh when I've seen them rushing to let everyone know how great the info he *might* have will be. It's just a shame. This board has already lost quite a few Pats fans and it is going to very quickly lose the rest. There are other boards out there that actually treat each other with respect, where you can actually have civilized discourse without a bunch of immature lemmings acting like two year olds.

I'm sure none of you will shed any tears seeing us go, I just think it's unfortunate that it's OK for people to be driven away like that. But whatev. Think what you want, sensationalize to fit your argument, dramaticize it to get your rocks off. Have a blasty with it.

someone447
03-11-2008, 12:07 PM
Dam8610:
This board has already lost quite a few Pats fans and it is going to very quickly lose the rest.

I'm not sure if that is a bad thing. The only two Patriot fans that I could stand are you(when you aren't in a thread dealing with cheating) and Billingsley. The rest of them seem to be idiot 10 year olds who talk like this:
"OMG PATRITOS BEST EVAR!!!! LULZZZZZZZZZZZZ"

Jay
03-11-2008, 12:24 PM
Maybe that is the case, I don't know, but there were many more of us at one point and many of them were pretty rational.

And for the record, none of us have ever claimed "Patriots16-0" as our own...

Bigburt63
03-11-2008, 12:58 PM
I'm not sure if that is a bad thing. The only two Patriot fans that I could stand are you(when you aren't in a thread dealing with cheating) and Billingsley. The rest of them seem to be idiot 10 year olds who talk like this:
"OMG PATRITOS BEST EVAR!!!! LULZZZZZZZZZZZZ"

Actually, it would probably be something more like "OMG PATRIOTS BEST EVAH!!" gotta put in the accent

Forenci
03-11-2008, 01:52 PM
http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2008/03/10/to_some_a_vindictive_videotaper/

Didn't want to open a new thread. It's going to be interesting.

Oh yeah, because a reporter from the Boston Herald is really going to give an honest and unbias opinion on a guy who can potentially tarnish the reputation of a Boston sports team. Nice.

Listen, Jay, I'm with you on this. If other teams are FOUND to be cheating, punish them. Speculatation, conjecture, and guess work are not evidence. Until we see the same level of proof that was brought against the Patriots, it's worthless.

You don't know all 31 other teams are cheating. You think they are, but do you really know? Of course not. I'm sure some of them do cheat, but what should the NFL do? Punish every team because you think they cheat?

Until then, it's hard for people to not single out the Patriots of cheating, because they're the biggest and most significant case of cheating in the NFL. Jimmy Johnson said he cheated, but what can the NFL do to a guy who isn't in the league anymore?

Bigburt63
03-11-2008, 02:03 PM
A lack of proof did not help people from singling out the patriots for having cheated before the 2001 superbowl. they took the word of an ex-employee over the word of the head officials, BB + Scott Pioli mainly, from the patriots organization.

Forenci
03-11-2008, 02:11 PM
A lack of proof did not help people from singling out the patriots for having cheated before the 2001 superbowl. they took the word of an ex-employee over the word of the head officials, BB + Scott Pioli mainly, from the patriots organization.

..uh yeah, I'm not even sure if I should respond to this.

So what you're saying is, let's trust the two people apart of the organization who's cheated before, when CLEARLY they would have no reason to lie about it. [/end sarcasm]

LonghornsLegend
03-11-2008, 02:19 PM
A lack of proof did not help people from singling out the patriots for having cheated before the 2001 superbowl. they took the word of an ex-employee over the word of the head officials, BB + Scott Pioli mainly, from the patriots organization.

Uhhh no, actually they took the word of Eric Mangini who snitched and obviously knew what he was talking about having just left the organization, which led people to speculate that if they were using this methods in the first game of the season and Mangini knew about it, that they were probably used previously when he was apart of the organization...So Mangini, no an ex employee brought this situation to light and he obviously has more credibility then Walse.

Bigburt63
03-11-2008, 02:29 PM
..uh yeah, I'm not even sure if I should respond to this.

So what you're saying is, let's trust the two people apart of the organization who's cheated before, when CLEARLY they would have no reason to lie about it. [/end sarcasm]

so we should trust the word of a bitter ex-employee then? Pick your poision, member of the organization or bitter ex-employee, neither really could be considered unbias, which is why its ridiculous that the pats were jumped on as if it were already proven.

Gay Ork Wang
03-11-2008, 02:30 PM
jay so ur basically also saying the whole Committee hates the Pats, they let other teams get away and only fine the Pats?

Bigburt63
03-11-2008, 02:34 PM
Uhhh no, actually they took the word of Eric Mangini who snitched and obviously knew what he was talking about having just left the organization, which led people to speculate that if they were using this methods in the first game of the season and Mangini knew about it, that they were probably used previously when he was apart of the organization...So Mangini, no an ex employee brought this situation to light and he obviously has more credibility then Walse.

I was actually only referring to the accusations of taping the rams walkthrough. People assumed that walsh actually had proof, and took his word as credible and dismissed the patriots' word automatically. and you prove my point exactly. people are SPECULATING that the patriots used the "methods" before the first game of last year. In all likelihood they probably were, but nobody can really prove it..thus proving my point.

Gay Ork Wang
03-11-2008, 02:49 PM
Yea and thats why Magini woke up someday and was like:

Hey maybe the Pats cheat!

Jay
03-11-2008, 03:01 PM
Oh yeah, because a reporter from the Boston Herald is really going to give an honest and unbias opinion on a guy who can potentially tarnish the reputation of a Boston sports team. Nice.

Listen, Jay, I'm with you on this. If other teams are FOUND to be cheating, punish them. Speculatation, conjecture, and guess work are not evidence. Until we see the same level of proof that was brought against the Patriots, it's worthless.

You don't know all 31 other teams are cheating. You think they are, but do you really know? Of course not. I'm sure some of them do cheat, but what should the NFL do? Punish every team because you think they cheat?

Until then, it's hard for people to not single out the Patriots of cheating, because they're the biggest and most significant case of cheating in the NFL. Jimmy Johnson said he cheated, but what can the NFL do to a guy who isn't in the league anymore?

The Boston GLOBE (owned by the New York Times) spent over 30 days with five reporters working on that article. There is more factual, sourced information in that article then EVERY OTHER news piece that has come out regarding this subject.

If MSN or Fox or Yahoo wrote an article that in depth with that many named sources glorifying Matt Walsh, this article would be 15 pages deep in kudos, and you would be one of the lemmings involved.

Case in point, your making excuses for Jimmy Johnson, and your refusal to admit the NFL has brushed countless incidents under the rug since Spygate to the plight of no one.

Stone-cold guarantee of the year: The NFL would have NEVER turned this into a big deal if they knew just how overblown the situation would become, and neither would the New York Jets. FACT. I GUARANTEE Eric Mangini has nothing but total regret for the entire thing happening, which is why he is willing to testify that neither he or any other coaches on the Patriots staff watched video of the St. Louis Rams walk through.

Under oath.

In a court of law.

Take from that what you want to.

Jay
03-11-2008, 03:04 PM
jay so ur basically also saying the whole Committee hates the Pats, they let other teams get away and only fine the Pats?

No, I am saying the NFL wants this all to go away and get back to doing things their way. What good would it have done to start another scandal?

Even this "crackdown" article is a total sham much of the way of the Mitchell Report. It's action to make it look like they are taking action. A show of force if you will. It's a sham and everyone knows it. I hope like hell no one else ever gets caught. I have no problem with the Patriots being the only team that EVER gets caught, so long as everyone is on equal ground and we can get back to talking about football again...

Bigburt63
03-11-2008, 08:01 PM
Yea and thats why Magini woke up someday and was like:

Hey maybe the Pats cheat!

I'm not sure what you are trying to argue here. The patriots did tape the signals of Jets coaches in the first week of the season, and likely had before then. What I was talking about earlier was the walsh tapes specifically, in which everyone seems to take Walsh's word without any question, but then turn around and dismiss BB's and Pioli's word as "obviously they would say that" and that it cannot be true.

Dam8610
03-12-2008, 07:35 PM
Dam8610:

No, you don't. I've said it all along that if this happened to any other team, no one would care, yourself included. This is why no one cares about the Jets being caught filming from an area against NFL rules in Foxboro, and another reason no one cares about the wink-wink, nudge-nudge deal between Tony Dungy and Jeff Fisher.

I know you feel that way, but it's just not true. If the Colts were proven to be cheaters, I'd lose a lot of respect for the organization, and while I'd still be a fan, it's something I'd want to move on from and never discuss again, because it'd make a bright chapter in their history instead a shameful one. If it were any team other than the Patriots cheating, I'd be just as upset and concerned over it, because it would bring up questions about the integrity of the game, which is the heart of this issue. As for your accusations, cite sources or shut up about these types of things. Wildly flinging accusations about other teams with no proof of them makes your credibility go down the tubes, and makes you look like a crybaby whose only interest is defending his team to the death.

And it's the same reason no one cares about tampering, much less the fact that they get away with saying "everyone is doing it."

I care about tampering, as it's cheating, but you've yet to cite proof of it being done. As I said before, when I SEE PROOF of tampering, as I have of the Patriots' filming, then I'll be all for according punishment of those teams. What you seem to fail to understand is that almost every entity in this country operates under the assumption that when an accusation is made about a person or group, that person or group is innocent until proven guilty, at which point proper disciplinary action should be handed out. It's how the situation with the Patriots was handled, yet you don't want to allow the same treatment for the other 31 franchises.

You're right, there is a lot of hypocrisy, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why it gets Patriot fans bent out of shape.

I can't believe you don't recognize the hypocrisy in basically all of what you've said on this issue ever since it happened. You want everyone to forgive and forget with the Patriots, and since they won't, you want to bring up every minor unproven incident of what you think is cheating and complain that those teams aren't being punished for them. Hypocrisy at its finest. Not to mention the fact that every time you do this you're basically calling the NFL an incompetent organization in the disciplinary department basically because you're upset about what they did to the Patriots.

We see all these other blatant disregards for NFL rules and policy go unpunished and blatantly not cared about, while we're evil and dastardly for doing something that, wait for it, everyone was doing. But God knows you're not going to let me get away with saying "everyone was doing it."

What blatant disregards of NFL rules? You've yet to provide one iota of proof of any of the wild accusations you've made, yet you want people to simply assume that they're true? Well, forgive me for not being an idiot, but I like my punishments to come with some proof. This all sounds very similar to the rantings of a child whose had his or her favorite toy taken away, and I can tell by the posts on this thread that I'm not the only one that's sick of it. So for all your accusations from this point forward, there's a very concise answer: PROOF OR SHUT UP.

And no, teams do not cover their mouths or sheild signals because taking a long time means it is a pass. Are you that freaking gullible? I mean seriously. Do I even need to explain how flawed that assessment is?

It's odd that you would call several current NFL head coaches liars, because I've seen segments in NFL Films shows about the subject of playcallers covering their mouths, and across the board that's the reason they gave. Of course I know you'd like others to believe you, but if my choice is to be "gullible" by believing NFL coaches, or not be "gullible" by believing you, who has no proof of any of his claims, I think I'll be "gullible".

And yes, you can use the media as a source, especially when it has direct quotes, cited, attributed to people involved in the situation. It's a crock of **** and we all know it.

Use the media as a source, please. Use anything as a source to show some kind of evidence behind your accusations, it'd be a vast improvement. Still, direct quotes from people involved are shaky at best as evidence, because every team is going to feel slighted when things don't go their way. Proof that would be punishment worthy to me would be phone records showing calls between player and new team prior to the opening of free agency, and without any form of consent (be it verbal or written) from the original team.

If I am a Dallas Cowboys fan, I am PISSED. How do we know their team was as prepared as they should have been with a number of members in the organization packing bags and getting ready to go to Miami?

Now there's an accusation. You're accusing a playoff coach of not working as hard for his employer simply because there's a chance he'd be elsewhere? How'd you feel about Charlie Weis in 2004?


If I am a Cleveland Browns fan, I am PISSED and want some answers as to why two teams with members on the competition committee can come to an "understanding" on how a game is going to be played. That one sure got squashed quick though. No moral outrage there, and that would be 10 times worse then any filming the Patriots could EVER do. And yeah, we can play semantic games and say the Browns should have taken care of their own business, but the Giants had absolutely nothing to play for in week 17 and they put up a game for the ages against the Pats. The Pats

Are you kidding? Yeah, Tony Dungy doesn't have any history of resting his starters in a regular season game where his team has nothing to play for, does he? :rolleyes: This is the most absurd accusation you've come up with to date. What's next? The Dolphins will be cheating by selecting the first player in the 2008 draft?


I don't think I am being unreasonable for expecting everyone to treat every team the same.

Practice what you preach then.

I am fine with the fact that we broke a rule, were heavily penalized and whatever. We were wrong. No one has ever claimed otherwise.

You haven't gone so far as to say the Patriots did no wrong in this incident, but you've made every conceivable effort to try to display it as being trivial, which makes it seem as though you're unwilling to accept what this incident represents, which is a violation of the rules and thus doubt as to the integrity of the games the Pats have played over the past few seasons, especially as more accusations have come out, such as Matt Walsh's accusations, which, while unfounded as of yet, still bring more doubt into the issue since they've already been shown to be guitly of this on many occasions over several years, and that's according to Roger Goodell in the state of the League address prior to the Super Bowl.


I am just tired of the hypocrisy.

Which is just hilarious coming from the person who has spewed the most hypocrisy on this issue.


I am tired of everyone talking in circles.

Who's talking in circles? Certainly it isn't me. Everything I've said comes from my own beliefs on the matters or some reliable source, whereas you like to accuse other teams of cheating in an attempt to detract from the meaning of your team cheating.


I am tired of everyone assuming the worst with when it comes to this but assuming nothing happened when it comes to everyone else.

That comes down to a simple axiom of this society, that being innocent until proven guilty. As Roger Goodell said in his state of the league address, the Patriots were guilty of filming opposing teams several times over several years. Why should they be assumed to be innocent when another accusation of their filming is made? They've already been proven guilty several times over.


I am tired of Pats fans getting singled out every time something goes down. It is definitely a mob mentality against us. It doesn't matter what we say. It doesn't.

Keep telling yourself the world is against you, it didn't work too well for your team (who pulled off the most monumental choke job in certainly NFL history, and possibly sports history in part because of it), and it hasn't worked too well for you here thus far. I don't know about everyone else here, but I've yet to single the Patriots out for anything but that of which they've been proven guilty, and no other team has. As for their fans, the only time I've seen any of you singled out is when you're trying to defend your team on the issue, and the reason for that is because no one else feels the need or desire to defend a guilty party.


I didn't see anyone rushing to talk about the lawsuit in New Orleans being dropped when it was certainly posted within minutes of it being filed.

What lawsuit? I believe this falls under PROOF OR SHUT UP.


I didn't see anyone posting articles to discredit Matt Walsh when I've seen them rushing to let everyone know how great the info he *might* have will be.

Why should anyone try to discredit the man? He's said nothing yet other than that he might have evidence that a guilty party committed another violation of the rules. Until what he has is seen discrediting him is not only wrong, but a heinous act against a quite possibly honest person. Only someone trying to defend the indefensible would see this as a reasonable and right act.


It's just a shame. This board has already lost quite a few Pats fans and it is going to very quickly lose the rest.

Well, I guess that simply means you all couldn't handle the truth, and what that means. I'm not going to be upset if a group of crybabies who want to defend cheaters leave because of what I say, that's for sure.


There are other boards out there that actually treat each other with respect, where you can actually have civilized discourse without a bunch of immature lemmings acting like two year olds.

If that's how you feel about us, then go to those other boards of which you speak. I'm sure most of their urls start with http://www.pat though.


I'm sure none of you will shed any tears seeing us go, I just think it's unfortunate that it's OK for people to be driven away like that.

You're driving yourselves away. No one is going to conform to your line of thinking just because you want them to (and a lot of the time they won't even if you prove them wrong), so if you can't deal with that, then it's your choice to leave. Make no mistake though, no one has driven anyone here away.


But whatev. Think what you want, sensationalize to fit your argument, dramaticize it to get your rocks off. Have a blasty with it.

Funny that you would say that, since in exaggeration and wild accusation, you have "sensationalize[d] to fit your argument", and you have "[dramatized] ... to get your rocks off". I hope you've "had a blast with it", and if you're leaving these boards because others won't accept and conform to your way of thinking, the quicker you leave the better it will be for all parties involved.

someone447
03-12-2008, 07:49 PM
the quicker you leave the better it will be for all parties involved.

He is a good poster when it doesn't involve cheating.

Dam8610
03-12-2008, 08:00 PM
He is a good poster when it doesn't involve cheating.

Notice the qualification of that phrase with the if statement before it.

bantx
03-12-2008, 08:10 PM
pizzowneddd

Gay Ork Wang
03-13-2008, 11:15 AM
Well u said they didnt do that before. Obviously they did it before if Mangini knew about it.

Bigburt63
03-13-2008, 12:55 PM
That's why I said that in all likelihood they did. But it could be argued (albeit naively) that Mangini was simply the one who caught/turned in the patriots.