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lost33cause
03-08-2008, 07:26 PM
If the Titans were to consider draft day trades what would be a good cost for him? I know he's franchised but so was Corey Williams. I am a bengals fan still desperatly looking to upgrade the DT position so I might be just dreaming but I was thinking an offer of 2 2nd round draft picks like this year and next year would be enough to get him. Next year Haynseworth will hit FA and demand huge money so if I was with the Titans I might want to trade him now to get something out of him rather than lose him out right next year.

But like I said I might be dreaming, is it that far away from the realm of possibilities?

LonghornsLegend
03-08-2008, 07:29 PM
Its not a guarantee he hits the open market next off-season, they do have the money 2 sign him.

Cashmoney
03-08-2008, 08:13 PM
You need to wake up. 2 2nd rounders for argueably the most dominant defensive presence in the NFL? 2 1st rounders might get you a maybe. Our defense is **** without him so we will definitely keep him for this year and do everything we can to retain him longer. We have incredible cap so that's no problem.

nobodyinparticular
03-08-2008, 08:23 PM
You need to wake up. 2 2nd rounders for argueably the most dominant defensive presence in the NFL? 2 1st rounders might get you a maybe. Our defense is **** without him so we will definitely keep him for this year and do everything we can to retain him longer. We have incredible cap so that's no problem.

The most dominant in one year out of 5. Before last year, Haynesworth was considered one of the bigger busts of his draft class.

Cashmoney
03-08-2008, 08:45 PM
The most dominant in one year out of 5. Before last year, Haynesworth was considered one of the bigger busts of his draft class.

Only because he couldn't stay on the field. He hasn't been as dominant as he was last year, but he was solid. But because he couldn't stay on the field he couldn't put up the stats.

russie
03-08-2008, 08:45 PM
The most dominant in one year out of 5. Before last year, Haynesworth was considered one of the bigger busts of his draft class.

and a piece of sh*t trouble maker because he stomped on that dallas center's face

eaglesfan_45
03-08-2008, 08:51 PM
If the Titans were to consider draft day trades what would be a good cost for him? I know he's franchised but so was Corey Williams. I am a bengals fan still desperatly looking to upgrade the DT position so I might be just dreaming but I was thinking an offer of 2 2nd round draft picks like this year and next year would be enough to get him. Next year Haynseworth will hit FA and demand huge money so if I was with the Titans I might want to trade him now to get something out of him rather than lose him out right next year.

But like I said I might be dreaming, is it that far away from the realm of possibilities?

I personally do not think it iss the best idea to bring Haynesworth to the Bengals, for obvious reasons

Cashmoney
03-08-2008, 08:59 PM
I personally do not think it iss the best idea to bring Haynesworth to the Bengals, for obvious reasons

Haynesworth has never been an off-field issue for the Titans.

TacticaLion
03-08-2008, 09:02 PM
Haynesworth has never been an off-field issue for the Titans.

Yeah... lets add "on-field issues" to the Bengals' character concern list.

A Perfect Score
03-08-2008, 09:23 PM
i personally wouldnt trade for haynesworth, just because im of teh opinion once he gets his big guaranteed money (which some team will givve him) he will go back to being the lazy sack of **** he was before.

That said, i think with the season he just had, he demands at least a late 1st if the titans do trade him. The only team i can see doing that is maybe SD, to play him at end in their 3-4 (hte only reason i say that is because they dont really have any other major holes) that would leave them with hardly any draft picks, so i dont see it happeneing. I think he stays in tennessee

TitanHope
03-08-2008, 09:46 PM
In order for a team to get Mike Reinfeldt, GM for the Titans, to even entertain a trade, it will take an offer of two 1st RD picks. Thats the tender for a Franshise Player, and will be the price. That amount is based on the talent level and ability of Haynesworth as a player, and the need for Haynesworth by the Titans. Two 2nd RD picks? A late-1st RD pick? Those aren't equal value to Fat Al's value, period.

As for the "on-the-field" issues, those are over. It's bad enough that Albert gets a personal foul for every hard hit he makes. It was a one time incident, and he's done nothing else to suggest that he'll be a trouble maker. Unlike PacMan, Haynesworth attended every anger-management class he was ordered to attend, and also trained with a retired All-Pro DLineman during his suspension to make sure he stayed in shape and improve, which he did greatly. To me, the biggest thing that makes me believe that he will not repeat that previous level of attrocious conduct is when he told the story of him having to explain to his son why he did what he did. That registered the highest with me anyway. But as the same with the injury and lazyness issues, it's all subjective and haters will hate.

But yeah, two 1st RD'ers or go don't bother.

TacticaLion
03-08-2008, 09:56 PM
In order for a team to get Mike Reinfeldt, GM for the Titans, to even entertain a trade, it will take an offer of two 1st RD picks. Thats the tender for a Franshise Player, and will be the price.If it took 2 1st round picks, they wouldn't need Mike Reinfeldt to "entertain a trade"... they'd just negotiate a contract with Haynesworth.

ks_perfection
03-08-2008, 09:58 PM
If he has a similar season he'd get tagged for sure.

TitanHope
03-08-2008, 10:24 PM
If it took 2 1st round picks, they wouldn't need Mike Reinfeldt to "entertain a trade"... they'd just negotiate a contract with Haynesworth.

I'm just answering the man's question. Though, the reality is that Haynesworth isn't going anywhere. His influence on the FO from a player's position is on par with Vince Young, at this point.

In order for the Titans to let go of a player who helps the team as much as Haynesworth, they need an equal return. I don't see a situation appearing that allows a team to make a trade with Tennessee. And then, the trading team will have to work our a contract with Haynesworth, which will probably have to be around 7-year/$55 million/$20 million guranteed, thanks to Al Davis...

TacticaLion
03-08-2008, 10:35 PM
I'm just answering the man's question. Though, the reality is that Haynesworth isn't going anywhere. His influence on the FO from a player's position is on par with Vince Young, at this point.

Actually, he isn't going anywhere because no team will give 2 1st rounders for a player with one dominant year and his track record.

Flyboy
03-08-2008, 10:46 PM
Yeah... lets add "on-field issues" to the Bengals' character concern list.

I lawl'd at this.

lost33cause
03-08-2008, 11:25 PM
My thinking was if a long term deal was going to happen and hes that important to the team then the deal would have been done by now and they would not have had to franchise him. I understand the Titan fans don't want to see him go b/c they saw what the defense was like without him but you also have to look at what happens if they can't get a deal worked out and he hits FA next year and you have nothing to show for him.

ALSO, im tired of people saying the bengals can't even consider anyone that has a blip of any issue in their lifetime. How long has it been since a Bengal has been arrested?

I don't have any kind of chart but doesn't the #47 pick this year and a 2nd round next year equate to about a late first round pick? I personally think thats quite a big offer if you consider that he's only had 1 good year which was a contract year. We were going to give only a 3rd and a 5th for Shaun Rogers and I would put them both in the same category of question marks, size, ability, and such.

Cashmoney
03-08-2008, 11:26 PM
Actually, he isn't going anywhere because no team will give 2 1st rounders for a player with one dominant year and his track record.

Good, we'll keep him and continue to eat team's o-lines for lunch.

Cashmoney
03-08-2008, 11:31 PM
My thinking was if a long term deal was going to happen and hes that important to the team then the deal would have been done by now and they would not have had to franchise him. I understand the Titan fans don't want to see him go b/c they saw what the defense was like without him but you also have to look at what happens if they can't get a deal worked out and he hits FA next year and you have nothing to show for him.

ALSO, im tired of people saying the bengals can't even consider anyone that has a blip of any issue in their lifetime. How long has it been since a Bengal has been arrested?

I don't have any kind of chart but doesn't the #47 pick this year and a 2nd round next year equate to about a late first round pick? I personally think thats quite a big offer if you consider that he's only had 1 good year which was a contract year. We were going to give only a 3rd and a 5th for Shaun Rogers and I would put them both in the same category of question marks, size, ability, and such.

Contract negotiations aren't as easy as you make them out to be. The Titans front office probably has other issues to worry about right now. They can hold off for a while on negotiating a new contract with Haynesworth, and I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't get his new contract until either the preseason or sometime in the regular season.

Thunder&Lightning
03-08-2008, 11:37 PM
Never going to happen. Besides Bulluck hes the heart and soul of the titans defense. Would take a 1st rounder and maybe some more to get him. They will be able to sign him next year. This guy is going no where.

OzTitan
03-09-2008, 01:38 AM
Yeah... lets add "on-field issues" to the Bengals' character concern list.

"Issues"? It was one incident.

I don't see how he can be traded because the Titans would only need to use the DP on his replacement anyway. Value wise I think an early enough pick to land a Dorsey or Ellis in this class is fair, but why replace an actual pro bowler (even if it's only a very recent pro bowler) who is 26 with a unproven rookie.

The reason the Titans haven't spent big in FA besides the fact there was nothing worth spending big over is because they have 3-4 players looking for an extension this or next offseason who will command top dollar, or close to it. Right now though, they are in 2nd+ tier FA and draft mode, so I don't think AH being without a deal means anything, it's just not the best time to be doing it. They have 2 months or so after the draft to get it done (and much longer with the other players).

The difference between a Rogers and a Haynesworth is, Haynesworth was actually the driving factor behind a *good* defense. Without him the Titans D went from top 5 to bottom 10, without Rogers the Lions are not nearly as effected. 1 good year or not, the importance of a player to a team factors in on trade value as well obviously, and AH's importance was through the roof in 07. I think it would take a lot of persuading to get him in a trade. Remember, the Titans have the money to spend and it's not like he's in a situation like Briggs next to Urlacher. In the Titans D, AH *is* Urlacher. I doubt they have any qualms paying him what it costs.

TacticaLion
03-09-2008, 04:48 AM
"Issues"? It was one incident.
People (Titan fans) keep saying this... so I decided to investigate:

An incident occurred at a Titans training camp, where Haynesworth kicked his teammate, center Justin Hartwig, in the chest, and had to be restrained by other teammates.
Hmm... second kicking incident.

Yeah... you're right, though. Stomping on a players unprotected head is forgivable behavior. He only received the largest suspension related to on-field conduct in the history of the league (and has done it before)... there's no reason for concern here. :rolleyes:
The difference between a Rogers and a Haynesworth is, Haynesworth was actually the driving factor behind a *good* defense. Without him the Titans D went from top 5 to bottom 10, without Rogers the Lions are not nearly as effected. 1 good year or not, the importance of a player to a team factors in on trade value as well obviously, and AH's importance was through the roof in 07. I think it would take a lot of persuading to get him in a trade. Remember, the Titans have the money to spend and it's not like he's in a situation like Briggs next to Urlacher. In the Titans D, AH *is* Urlacher. I doubt they have any qualms paying him what it costs.You obviously have no clue what you're talking about.

The Lions went 6-2 with a dominant Rogers... then, when Rogers decided to quit, finished the season 1-7. From playoff team to mid pick because of one player. I'd say he had a substantial impact.

And... Urlacher doesn't stomp on players' head/chest, so I don't see the comparison.

OzTitan
03-09-2008, 06:38 AM
People (Titan fans) keep saying this... so I decided to investigate:


Hmm... second kicking incident.

Yeah... you're right, though. Stomping on a players unprotected head is forgivable behavior. He only received the largest suspension related to on-field conduct in the history of the league (and has done it before)... there's no reason for concern here. :rolleyes:

Not sure where I said stomping on a player's head was "forgivable behavior". The suspension was for the incident. It's not like he's the on the field version of Pacman, or that he's racked up a series of suspensions like these to qualify him as an on the field issue guy like the Bengals had in off the field issue guys. If he does something like that again to earn an on field suspension, then sure, but until then, he doesn't have 'issues'. What he did was clearly such a big deal to him, that I'd be shocked if he does anything remotely like that on an NFL field again. It was stupid as hell, but people can do stupid things and move on from them without being labelled a serial offender. Anyway, I don't really care honestly, just not sure a guy who was suspended once for an action that has clearly provided a wake up call is a player with "issues".

You obviously have no clue what you're talking about.

The Lions went 6-2 with a dominant Rogers... then, when Rogers decided to quit, finished the season 1-7. From playoff team to mid pick because of one player. I'd say he had a substantial impact.

And... Urlacher doesn't stomp on players' head/chest, so I don't see the comparison.

I said not nearly AS effected. The Titans D with Haynesworth in was top 3, with him out, more like bottom 3. And these are raw stats talking here, not just a fan's interpretation. Rogers' impact can't top that because he wasn't making the Lions a top 3 D like Haynesworth was for the Titans. I'm sure he had a big impact, but Haynesworth's in 07 was insane in proportion. Btw, looking at Kitna's stats in the first 8 compared to the last 8 suggests he could have had just as big, if not a bigger, impact than Rogers. The Titans O was constantly poor all year - the only variable was whether AH suited up or not.

And the Urlacher comparison was *obviously* regarding his importance to their respective D's. AH is not a Lance Briggs type the team can leave to test free agency and afford to lose. Everything about the Titans D starts with Haynesworth - at least it did in 07. When he's out, KVB gets doubled, Schwartz's "Front 4 pressure 95% of the time" scheme goes to sh*t, QB's get all day, and the rest of the defenders get exposed. The Titans D in 06 was pretty terrible particularly the run D, and the only change in 07 was Fowler and Griffin, not to mention losing Pacman. Lamont Thompson was bad, but he wasn't so bad his absence propels the Titans D into the top 5 league wide. That came squarely down to AH and his emmergence as a pro bowl DT, and possibly the best DT in the NFL last season. There is a reason he isn't being close to traded for a 3rd and a 5th this offseason.

BigDawg819
03-09-2008, 08:21 AM
So I take it from the jist of the Titans' fans in here now that Favre retired Albert is assuming the God Throne?

OzTitan
03-09-2008, 09:35 AM
So I take it from the jist of the Titans' fans in here now that Favre retired Albert is assuming the God Throne?

Just posting facts. Titans D was trash without AH last season, but was good enough to overcome some ridiculous offensive performances and still win games when he was in. Hell, in the Falcons game, on 4th and goal from the 1 for the game after yet another turnover in their own half, AH did a superman dive over the OL and clipped Leftwich's leg which caused him to stumble and get sacked for the win. People wanted to know how valuable he is to the Titans D, the answer is extremely valuable.

Addict
03-09-2008, 09:55 AM
So I take it from the jist of the Titans' fans in here now that Favre retired Albert is assuming the God Throne?

VYisAGod

nuff said.

Finsfan79
03-09-2008, 10:16 AM
I would rather miami have the picks then trade for him from our perspective, soon as he gets the money he will go back to before I think

LonghornsLegend
03-09-2008, 10:58 AM
The Lions went 6-2 with a dominant Rogers... then, when Rogers decided to quit, finished the season 1-7. From playoff team to mid pick because of one player. I'd say he had a substantial impact.


Come on now, your not trying to tell me it was Shaun Rogers fault you guys went 6-2, and just because he played half ass down the stretch you guys went 1-7 and thats the major reason, not the fact that martz gets pass happy and abandons the run, or not the fact that kitna never had any time to throw, but yea it was all Rogers:rolleyes:

aNYtitan
03-09-2008, 11:13 AM
Come on now, your not trying to tell me it was Shaun Rogers fault you guys went 6-2, and just because he played half ass down the stretch you guys went 1-7 and thats the major reason, not the fact that martz gets pass happy and abandons the run, or not the fact that kitna never had any time to throw, but yea it was all Rogers:rolleyes:
What he said basically, it definitely wasn't all on Rogers that the Lions ship sunk past the half way mark last season. It was more on Kitna failing towards the end of the season. Lets just put it this way, Haynesworth is going no where because there are very little amount of players, and less teams that are willing to part with 2 first rounders for a player. He will get locked up long term either this preseason or next offseason, count on it. He matters the most to this defense then any one individual person

Cashmoney
03-09-2008, 11:45 AM
People (Titan fans) keep saying this... so I decided to investigate:


Hmm... second kicking incident.




Yea youre right. Haynesworth is the first player ever to get in a skirmish with a teammate at training camp. :roll:

smittyjs
03-09-2008, 12:01 PM
The most dominant in one year out of 5. Before last year, Haynesworth was considered one of the bigger busts of his draft class.
I disagree with that all the ways, he had shown his talent level before but injuries and last year his stompin act that caused him alot of that season held him back IMO. Back to the ?, it would take all your picks then some before we gave up Fat Albert and his bucket of fried chicken.

smittyjs
03-09-2008, 12:03 PM
So I take it from the jist of the Titans' fans in here now that Favre retired Albert is assuming the God Throne?We have two GODs, VYisaGod and AHisaGod :eek:

BigDawg819
03-09-2008, 12:04 PM
We have two GODs, VYisaGod and AHisaGod :eek:

2 Gods and no playoff wins. Yup God doesn't matter in the NFL.... :D

smittyjs
03-09-2008, 12:08 PM
2 Gods and no playoff wins. Yup God doesn't matter in the NFL.... :D
When you have satan also on your team it doesn't help you :(

indyfan1985
03-09-2008, 12:16 PM
The only way I see them trading Haynesworth is if they can move up in this year's draft with the intention to get Glenn Dorsey. So if a team picking in the top 10 or earlier would want him, they could offer up their 1st rounder for Haynesworth and possibly the Titan's 1st rounder. Are there any teams picking in the top 10 who would want him?

Cashmoney
03-09-2008, 12:44 PM
The only way I see them trading Haynesworth is if they can move up in this year's draft with the intention to get Glenn Dorsey. So if a team picking in the top 10 or earlier would want him, they could offer up their 1st rounder for Haynesworth and possibly the Titan's 1st rounder. Are there any teams picking in the top 10 who would want him?

I dont understand why we would trade an elite DT and a 1st to take an unproven player at the same position. That would be just plain stupid. We wouldn't even trade just Haynesworth for a first to draft a DT. Its like the cowboys trading their two picks and Barber to get McFadden. Why would you trade a player at a need position to draft a player of the same position? Then it doesn't fill a need. It justs puts you in more of a hole.

Bobo
03-09-2008, 12:57 PM
There's risks involved with Fat Al, but if I was the Titans I'd ask a lot for him.....probably along the lines of what would be considered too much. Very, very few guys who can play like him. If I'm the Titans, I take the risk as opposed to hoping to find a similar replacement.

stephenson86
03-09-2008, 04:48 PM
Fat Al has his own after shave AH92

TacticaLion
03-09-2008, 05:42 PM
Come on now, your not trying to tell me it was Shaun Rogers fault you guys went 6-2, and just because he played half ass down the stretch you guys went 1-7 and thats the major reason, not the fact that martz gets pass happy and abandons the run, or not the fact that kitna never had any time to throw, but yea it was all Rogers:rolleyes:
Yeah... I think Rogers was the major reason. When he decided to sit on the sidelines or jog around the field, he left a huge hole at the position. Not only did our pass-rush suffer without him, but our run defense also suffered. The offense didn't change... Martz (and Kitna) were doing the same things in the first 8 that they did in the last 8. The defense fell apart, and the defense was led by Rogers.

This isn't only my opinion:For all of Shaun Rogers' faults, and there were many, when he had his head on straight (which wasn't often) he was a dominating defensive tackle. Last season, when the Lions were winning and showing life, so was Rogers, and he was getting sacks, and blocking field goals, and even scoring a touchdown on a long run back. Then Rogers faded and likely not coincidentally, so did the Lions, and we were left without another lost season.

Not sure where I said stomping on a player's head was "forgivable behavior". The suspension was for the incident. It's not like he's the on the field version of Pacman, or that he's racked up a series of suspensions like these to qualify him as an on the field issue guy like the Bengals had in off the field issue guys. If he does something like that again to earn an on field suspension, then sure, but until then, he doesn't have 'issues'. What he did was clearly such a big deal to him, that I'd be shocked if he does anything remotely like that on an NFL field again. It was stupid as hell, but people can do stupid things and move on from them without being labelled a serial offender. Anyway, I don't really care honestly, just not sure a guy who was suspended once for an action that has clearly provided a wake up call is a player with "issues".I never said you said it was "forgivable behavior"... but I'm not so quick to toss it in the rear view mirror (as some coaches probably aren't). He stomped on a teammate and stomped on the face of an opponent... it isn't an isolated incident and shouldn't be forgotten.

For the record: a lot of the Bengals' arrests involved drugs (and some, traffic violations). And, although some of them only happened once, they're still brought up (as you've brought them up). I'm much less concerned about Marijuana possession than I am stomping on a player's unprotected face.

Yea youre right. Haynesworth is the first player ever to get in a skirmish with a teammate at training camp.That wasn't the point... at all. Try to follow it this time:

Titans' fans keep saying how the face stomp was ONE incident... yet he stomped on a teammate during training camp. So, the stomping wasn't only one incident, but happened more than once. Considering 99% of the players in the NFL last their entire career without stomping on a player, and Haynesworth has done it twice, I'd call it an "issue".

Believe what you will: teams haven't forgotten the incident, and probably wont.

kmartin575
03-09-2008, 06:17 PM
You need to wake up. 2 2nd rounders for argueably the most dominant defensive presence in the NFL? 2 1st rounders might get you a maybe. Our defense is **** without him so we will definitely keep him for this year and do everything we can to retain him longer. We have incredible cap so that's no problem.

The most dominant defensive presence in the NFL? A guy who finally performed in a contract year? If Haynesworth is the most dominant defensive presence in the NFL then the defensive talent in the league has gone to ****.

stephenson86
03-09-2008, 06:24 PM
for all his issues, hes only human and ive had anger management and i tell you now, im not a bad guy, but in the heat of the moment you will do questionable and shocking things through blind rage, i can see where he came from and i can understand so i put it behind me, as for the contract thing i think thats horse **** hes grown up since the stomping incident, he said how he realised it was the best thing for him and his family especially his daughter

TitanHope
03-09-2008, 07:21 PM
Actually, he isn't going anywhere because no team will give 2 1st rounders for a player with one dominant year and his track record.

Not true! I'm sure we could coax the Redskins and the Raiders into some sort of an agreement. ;)

My thinking was if a long term deal was going to happen and hes that important to the team then the deal would have been done by now and they would not have had to franchise him. I understand the Titan fans don't want to see him go b/c they saw what the defense was like without him but you also have to look at what happens if they can't get a deal worked out and he hits FA next year and you have nothing to show for him.

ALSO, im tired of people saying the bengals can't even consider anyone that has a blip of any issue in their lifetime. How long has it been since a Bengal has been arrested?

I don't have any kind of chart but doesn't the #47 pick this year and a 2nd round next year equate to about a late first round pick? I personally think thats quite a big offer if you consider that he's only had 1 good year which was a contract year. We were going to give only a 3rd and a 5th for Shaun Rogers and I would put them both in the same category of question marks, size, ability, and such.

They were in contract talks before FA, but it was going slow. The FO didn't want to be distracted by Haynesworth's contract negotiations, so they used the Franchise Tag, which allows them to basically just postpone the contract negotiation. You have to factor that we had a few prominent FA's to try to re-sign (Odom, Bell, and LaBoy), we had to schedule visits and pursue other FA's, and also work out the largest contract for a DT in the history of the NFL.

If we were just evaluating Haynesworth as a player, I'd say a 1st and a 3rd/ two 2nd RD picks would be adequate value, based on Rogers and Stroud's trades. But due to the impact that Haynesworth has on our success, we couldn't lose him without receiving something that would give us equal impact to that of Haynesworth's.

An incident occurred at a Titans training camp, where Haynesworth kicked his teammate, center Justin Hartwig, in the chest, and had to be restrained by other teammates.

Who's the source for this? Since the quote is out of context, I don't know if Haynesworth was a provoked, as Hartwig is a punk and always has been. If the kick to Hartwig's chest was out of revenge like the kick to Gurode's head (Gurode went after Haynesworth's knees twice, if memory serves me correctly), then it's still just an anger issue, which he's gotten under control due to therapy. Haynesworth isn't PacMan. Don't make him out to be.

And... Urlacher doesn't stomp on players' head/chest, so I don't see the comparison.

He's talking about the impact of the players on the field, and that they're not made to look better by playing next to a superior players. You know that, so go take your witch hunt elsewhere.

So I take it from the jist of the Titans' fans in here now that Favre retired Albert is assuming the God Throne?

Unfortunately, no... only John Madden can make that decision.

Yea youre right. Haynesworth is the first player ever to get in a skirmish with a teammate at training camp. :roll:

Vince Young and Donnie Nickey are menaces to society, and for the good of man kind, should be disbarred from the NFL. Indeed, Young and Vick have many things in common. Training camp skirmishes and dog fighting... both felonies in my eyes.



The most dominant in one year out of 5. Before last year, Haynesworth was considered one of the bigger busts of his draft class.

I disagree with that all the ways, he had shown his talent level before but injuries and last year his stompin act that caused him alot of that season held him back IMO. Back to the ?, it would take all your picks then some before we gave up Fat Albert and his bucket of fried chicken.

I agree with this. Fat Al has always had injury problems which have held him back. And if you watched our team in '06, the DEF improved with a healthy Haynesworth's return. He's been our best DT for the past few years, and if you thought he was a bust because he hadn't been to multiple Pro Bowls in his first few years, then the viewer must have held naive expectations. Haynesworth's time of maturity isn't later than normal, given his history of mild injuries and long suspension last year.

I dont understand why we would trade an elite DT and a 1st to take an unproven player at the same position. That would be just plain stupid. We wouldn't even trade just Haynesworth for a first to draft a DT. Its like the cowboys trading their two picks and Barber to get McFadden. Why would you trade a player at a need position to draft a player of the same position? Then it doesn't fill a need. It justs puts you in more of a hole.

Haynesworth is better for our DEF than Dorsey or Ellis. Finding a player who can play NT in our DEF AND can be as dominant as Haynesworth is extremely rare. An 85% healthy Haynesworth is more valuable to us than a 100% healthy Dorsey at UT.

That wasn't the point... at all. Try to follow it this time:

Titans' fans keep saying how the face stomp was ONE incident... yet he stomped on a teammate during training camp. So, the stomping wasn't only one incident, but happened more than once. Considering 99% of the players in the NFL last their entire career without stomping on a player, and Haynesworth has done it twice, I'd call it an "issue".

Believe what you will: teams haven't forgotten the incident, and probably wont.

For someone who's mocking someone else's reading comprehension, you're a lil slow to the point too, aren't ya buddy?

You paste a quote without linking it to anything, forcing us to believe that Al kicked a notorious jerk in training camp (Was Hartwig defenseless, was Al provoked, etc.). It holds less water than you make it out to be, unless there's more to the story that you have chosen not to show us.

Nevertheless, Al's attended multiple anger management sessions, and so far, has yet to be involved in any type of dispute. Then, he has the most dominant performance by a DT in a season. That alone will draw interest.

We're not saying the dude doesn't have baggage. We're just saying that you're not making a subjective argument.

I'm much less concerned about Marijuana possession than I am stomping on a player's unprotected face.

I really hope you're not serious about this... If you are, you've lost a lot of credibility in this argument...

TacticaLion
03-09-2008, 07:37 PM
Who's the source for this?
NBC Sports:

Keyshawn rips temperamental Haynesworth
‘I wouldn't want him on my team,’ Panthers WR says of suspended Titan.

CHARLOTTE, N.C. - Justin Hartwig saw the replay of Albert Haynesworth kicking a player in the head and wasn’t surprised.

For good reason: The Carolina Panthers’ center was a victim of Haynesworth’s temper three years ago.

The Tennessee Titans defensive tackle was suspended five games — the longest suspension for an on-field incident in NFL history — for twice stomping on the head of Dallas center Andre Gurode on Sunday. Gurode, who lost his helmet, required 30 stitches to repair gashes on his face.

“It’s kind of unimaginable to think a football player could do that to another football player, but knowing Albert and what he’s done in the past, it really didn’t surprise me at all,” Hartwig said Wednesday. “I wouldn’t put anything past that guy.”

In 2003, when Hartwig played with the Titans, he saw Haynesworth’s temper up close.

“It was the first couple of days of training camp I had been beating him in one-on-one drills. I had stopped him in a bull-rush pass rush drill. When he let up I dropped to my knees and he kicked me in the chest,” Hartwig said. “I grabbed his foot when he kicked me, and another offensive lineman came in and cleaned him out.

“You don’t disrespect another player or a teammate like that.”

Haynesworth’s actions were a hot topic in the Panthers’ locker room Wednesday, with the theme being that Haynesworth violated football’s unwritten code of ethics.

“I wouldn’t want him on my team,” veteran receiver Keyshawn Johnson said. “That’s just me. I don’t condone it. I don’t think it’s cool. If somebody did that on this team when I was here, I’d tell (owner Jerry Richardson) the same thing, ’I don’t want him on my team. I’m not going to play with a dude doing that on my team.”’

Hartwig stressed it was not an isolated incident and he never got along with Haynesworth while he was in Tennessee.

“I never really talked to him. He’s the kind of guy I stayed away from. He loses his mind sometimes,” said Hartwig, who signed a free-agent deal with Carolina in the offseason. “When he’s getting beat, he tends to lose control of his emotions. He gets irrational and doesn’t think straight.

“He would lose his cool and hit somebody after the play, stuff like that when they’re not looking. I got into it with him almost every year.”

Hartwig said Haynesworth was reprimanded several times by the Titans for practice scuffles that were kept from the media. That history is one reason Hartwig questioned the length of his suspension.

“I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility to suspend him for the whole season,” Hartwig said. “It’s the most intentional thing to hurt somebody I’ve ever seen. That crosses every sports and moral boundary you can think of.”

Hartwig returned to practice Wednesday for the first time since suffering a pulled groin in the season-opening loss to Atlanta. He’s listed as questionable for Sunday’s game against Cleveland.

But while Hartwig was hopeful he’d return Sunday, he wasn’t sure if Haynesworth has much of a future in the NFL.

“Sometimes a guy never learns,” Hartwig said.
It really isn't hard to do the research yourself... just go to google and type in "haynesworth kicked hartwig" (or anything close to it)... it's right there.

Read it... then make your own decision.
I really hope you're not serious about this... If you are, you've lost a lot of credibility in this argument...Oh whatever. Credibility? From you? Keep it.

I'd rather have a player that wants to smoke marijuana than a player that will stomp on a player's unprotected head when he gets mad. Football is a game of passion, and Haynesworth (apparently) can't control his.

How many players in the history of the NFL have smoked marijuana (or have gotten caught for it)? How many have stomped on another player's head? Call me crazy... claim that I've lost "credibility"... do whatever makes you feel good. I'd rather have a stoner than a thug.

stephenson86
03-09-2008, 07:45 PM
“I never really talked to him. He’s the kind of guy I stayed away from. He loses his mind sometimes,” said Hartwig, who signed a free-agent deal with Carolina in the offseason. “When he’s getting beat, he tends to lose control of his emotions. He gets irrational and doesn’t think straight.

i think its hard for people who have never suffered from anger problems to understand, when you look back you can see the wrong of your actions but during the moment your only thinking about venting your anger on the cause of it. councelling helped me and now im alot better but still not perfect, i dont hold anything against him as a person because ive been there so i can understand whats going on in his head so im glad i got that guy on my team because he really isnt a bad dude

TacticaLion
03-09-2008, 07:51 PM
“I never really talked to him. He’s the kind of guy I stayed away from. He loses his mind sometimes,” said Hartwig, who signed a free-agent deal with Carolina in the offseason. “When he’s getting beat, he tends to lose control of his emotions. He gets irrational and doesn’t think straight.

i think its hard for people who have never suffered from anger problems to understand, when you look back you can see the wrong of your actions but during the moment your only thinking about venting your anger on the cause of it. councelling helped me and now im alot better but still not perfect, i dont hold anything against him as a person because ive been there so i can understand whats going on in his head so im glad i got that guy on my team because he really isnt a bad dudeI don't hate Haynesworth and I don't think he's a horrible player... but he's an angry person playing an angry game. He has a hard time controlling his anger and will constantly be put into situations that can set him off.

Once again, he isn't a bad person... but he has a problem. And, when you mix that problem with the aggression of the NFL, it becomes a big problem. It's almost a matter of "when" he goes off again and not "if".

One more serious incident and he could be out of football... is it worth it?

stephenson86
03-09-2008, 07:57 PM
there wont be another serious incident IMO

i cant remember where i read it but i was reading something he said and basically he was saying that he didnt want his daughter to grow up with an angry dad who does the things he has done (grudoe?sp)

basically he realised he had to becoem much more responsible and has taken his career very seriously ever since, with the suspension training, all of the anger management classes, i think hes doing a sean taylor (RIP) where by hes turning the corner maturity wise and the effects were obvious, taylor upped his game and lived up to his incredible potential and haynesworth from what we saw this season has done the same, hopefuly it continues

he is the heart of our defense and jeff fisher said he aint going anywhere so i guess hes gonna be a titan for a long while

LonghornsLegend
03-09-2008, 08:08 PM
Gurode and Haynesworth are friends now, so their is no bad blood between the two, they were hanging out at the pro bowl and Gurode was saying its behind them and Haynesworth is a good guy.

Although Ill be the first to admit it was scary, I was watching that game as it happened and it easily could of ended alot worse, when you think about the football player who lost his eyesight and career to a referee flag, you can see permanent injury or death to a cleat to the face...Im glad it worked out the way it did, was a very scary play seeing Gurode's head exposed.

Cashmoney
03-10-2008, 01:11 AM
That wasn't the point... at all. Try to follow it this time:

Titans' fans keep saying how the face stomp was ONE incident... yet he stomped on a teammate during training camp. So, the stomping wasn't only one incident, but happened more than once. Considering 99% of the players in the NFL last their entire career without stomping on a player, and Haynesworth has done it twice, I'd call it an "issue".

Believe what you will: teams haven't forgotten the incident, and probably wont.

I did follow you, but you didnt follow me. Ive said many players get into fights in training camps. It happens about every other day. Its to be expected with the heat. Training camp skirmishes dont count as incidents. And how do you know the stomping happened more than once? The article you posted said he kicked a player.

The most dominant defensive presence in the NFL? A guy who finally performed in a contract year? If Haynesworth is the most dominant defensive presence in the NFL then the defensive talent in the league has gone to ****.

Its obvious you've probably only watched Haynesworth play a few times in his career if even. In fact im willing to bet you are making this statement based on stats. If you watched Haynesworth at all this season you would know that he was the most dominant defensive force. Hes one of the main reasons LaBoy and Odom got overpayed this offseason. He probably would've won defensive MVP had he played a couple more games.

kmartin575
03-10-2008, 01:28 AM
I did follow you, but you didnt follow me. Ive said many players get into fights in training camps. It happens about every other day. Its to be expected with the heat. Training camp skirmishes dont count as incidents. And how do you know the stomping happened more than once? The article you posted said he kicked a player.



Its obvious you've probably only watched Haynesworth play a few times in his career if even. In fact im willing to bet you are making this statement based on stats. If you watched Haynesworth at all this season you would know that he was the most dominant defensive force. Hes one of the main reasons LaBoy and Odom got overpayed this offseason. He probably would've won defensive MVP had he played a couple more games.

Sorry but that is still just your opinion, AND the opinion of a fan of the team he plays for. Not exactly a credible opinion IMO. You could make a case for guys like Freeney and Tommie Harris being more dominant defensive forces when healthy.

And one season of great play does not make a player the most dominant in the league. Countless other players have played above and beyond when their contract was on the line.

Sorry but i'm not buying it. Until this season Haynesworth was just a face in the crowd.

Joeyjr09
03-10-2008, 02:10 AM
I'm about as unbiased on this as you can get so here's my two cents:

Not sure what the big deal is with "off the field issues" and Haynesworth. The stomping was horrible and unforgivable but he has kept his act clean and everyone deserves and 2nd chance. Other then that stomping, he's never really done anything else except for all the rumbling about his bad attitude. As long as he plays the way he did last season, no one will care about his attitude.

On the flip side, Titan fans seem to be severly overrating him. He's been average thru his entire career until last season and considered somewhat of a malcontent until his play came around. While you Titan fans are all saying he ahs turned a corner in his life and is a better person, you don't know that for sure. He could have very well dropped the malcontent label simply because people were willing to ignore it with his play being at such a high level. You guys are just throwing your opinion out there that he has turned the corner and that his value is thru the roof but fact is that you don't know that for sure and teams don't trade based on the opinion that he turned the corner, they trade based on what he has done and what he can do for them.

All that said, You've got a guy that was dominant last season. One of the 3 best DL in the league last season. He is still young and could anchor a line for years to come. Those players don't grow on trees and hold a good amount of value. However, he comes with his fair share of questions. Has he really gotten past the malcontent phase or were people willing to overlook it based on his play? Is he really the total package or was last year a fluke and a by product of being in a contract year? Which is the real Haynesworth, the average, big body for the 1st couple years of his career, or the dominating, QB wrecker that took the field last season?

Too many questions for him to be worth 2 1sts the way Titan fans are stating but I don't see why, with his value being at it's peak, he couldn't fetched a solid mid 1st round pick from a team like Carolina.

I really feel like too many people are split on him here. Non Titan fans bring up the stomping and try to say he is worth way less then he is and Titan fans act as if he's the 2nd coming of Reggie White and hype him as a world beater when he really only has one good year to go with rumored attitude problems and average play during the rest of his career. His value is lower then Titan fans are saying and higher then some other guys on here are giving him credit for.

OzTitan
03-10-2008, 03:38 AM
There is no doubt AH has questions about whether he can repeat this performance and whether he will even try as hard once he is paid. I'm just recounting his value last season, not saying he is now the best defender in the league or anything.

For the right price the Titans may trade him, but they'd be giving up the single most important reason they made the playoffs last season (Defense, and without AH, forget it) and that would probably come at a price no team would be willing to match because of the fact he isn't a proven player quite yet. He may not be worth two 1sts or whatever with everything weighed up, but after last season, the Titans would be fools to accept anything less than "wow" value in a trade. Just the mere chance he could return in 08+ and play just as good if not better means he's worth keeping and signing long term, so the value offered in trade would have to offset that possibility and make it worth the Titans' while to not try and see. A single 1st just doesn't seem worth opting out on gambling with AH - after all, a DP is a gamble too. Probably a much bigger one than even AH.

TacticaLion
03-10-2008, 09:17 AM
I did follow you, but you didnt follow me. Ive said many players get into fights in training camps. It happens about every other day. Its to be expected with the heat. Training camp skirmishes dont count as incidents. And how do you know the stomping happened more than once? The article you posted said he kicked a player. I understand completely. I know that training camp skirmishes are common. Someone mentioned how this was the only time something like this happened... but it's not. Hartwig, a center, was shoved to his knees (after a play) and Haynesworth kicked him in the chest. A deliberate kick. Gurode, a center, happened to be on the ground and was stomped. I don't think he should've been punished for the Hartwig incident, but it shows that it wasn't the first time.

Cashmoney
03-10-2008, 12:26 PM
Ive said my piece and Im done with this thread after this post. AH has played well in seasons before this contract year. I think those of you who say he was average are really just basing your judgement on his stats from those years. But hey, whatever, I think he'll have another excellent season this year, and another clean season and all the doubters will slowly start to come around.

A Perfect Score
03-10-2008, 01:26 PM
look at it this way...do you really want a 320 lb shaun alexander on your hands (ie. a player who performed very well in a contract year, adn then fell off after recieving a huge contract)? because potentially, thats what AH will become...im not saying thats a given, but the potetnial for that to happen is there. It a big gamble, but i dont think the titans will trade him

Cashmoney
03-10-2008, 01:29 PM
look at it this way...do you really want a 320 lb shaun alexander on your hands (ie. a player who performed very well in a contract year, adn then fell off after recieving a huge contract)? because potentially, thats what AH will become...im not saying thats a given, but the potetnial for that to happen is there. It a big gamble, but i dont think the titans will trade him

Im not really sure Shaun Alexander is a good comparison for that analogy. He was a perrenial 1200+ yd rusher before his contract year, and he's been dogged by injuries plus the loss of hutchinson.

SenorGato
03-10-2008, 01:40 PM
The most dominant in one year out of 5. Before last year, Haynesworth was considered one of the bigger busts of his draft class.

Not true...he's been an immature jackass most of his career but I don't think anyones ever questioned his impact on the field. I've seen him argued as the top DT in the NFL even before this career year. That may not have been true, but he was still a very good player who just had alot of injuries and made alot of bad choices.

Joeyjr09
03-10-2008, 05:45 PM
The quick way to sum this up is that up to this point Haynesworth career is more on par with the Shayn Rodgers and Kris Jenkins of the world then the Warren Sapps of the world. All good players who could take over a game but Sapp was just on a whole nother level. Haynesworth isn't anywhere near the Sapp level of play yet and alot of Titans fans a treating him as such.

He did have good years before last season and he always had potential but Titans fans talking about his play before this season are fooling themselves. He had good years, not great years and he also had alot of issues and was very inconsistent with stretches where he wouldn't see the field for large chucks at a time. So yes at times he was a very good player even before this last season but by and large his career coming into last season was very average.

OzTitan
03-10-2008, 08:19 PM
The quick way to sum this up is that up to this point Haynesworth career is more on par with the Shayn Rodgers and Kris Jenkins of the world then the Warren Sapps of the world. All good players who could take over a game but Sapp was just on a whole nother level. Haynesworth isn't anywhere near the Sapp level of play yet and alot of Titans fans a treating him as such.

He was an elite DT last season. What do you want us to say? That he was elite but not quite as elite as a future HOF'r once was? It's hard to diminish a season and performance that you saw in front of you because of how good a player was in the past. It's not even relevant to me, all I know is how important he was last season for the Titans. Part of that is scheme too, not just AH - Jim Schwartz relies heavily on front 4 pressure and doesn't adjust when there is none. That also helped magnify AH's importance. Again, I don't think anyone here is suggesting he is now a career elite DT, he just had a very, very good season even when missing a few more games to injury and not coming back completely healthy. I'm not really sure how it compares to previous DT seasons and I don't really care, last year the Titans were not a playoff team without AH.

Joeyjr09
03-10-2008, 08:31 PM
He was an elite DT last season. What do you want us to say? That he was elite but not quite as elite as a future HOF'r once was? It's hard to diminish a season and performance that you saw in front of you because of how good a player was in the past. It's not even relevant to me, all I know is how important he was last season for the Titans. Part of that is scheme too, not just AH - Jim Schwartz relies heavily on front 4 pressure and doesn't adjust when there is none. That also helped magnify AH's importance. Again, I don't think anyone here is suggesting he is now a career elite DT, he just had a very, very good season even when missing a few more games to injury and not coming back completely healthy. I'm not really sure how it compares to previous DT seasons and I don't really care, last year the Titans were not a playoff team without AH.

Were you serious with this? You don't care to compare him with other DTs? This entire thread is about his trade value, and to gauge trade value you have to compare him to other players that have been dealt such as Rodgers and Jenkins to see where you think his value lies. I'm not diminishing his value based on what Sapp did in the past. I was simply using players such as Sapp, Rodgers and Jenkins as gauges as to where his trade value is really at. And that was the topic of this thread. What his trade value would be. Not what he means to the Titans or how good of a year he had last season.

Cashmoney
03-10-2008, 08:41 PM
Were you serious with this? You don't care to compare him with other DTs? This entire thread is about his trade value, and to gauge trade value you have to compare him to other players that have been dealt such as Rodgers and Jenkins to see where you think his value lies. I'm not diminishing his value based on what Sapp did in the past. I was simply using players such as Sapp, Rodgers and Jenkins as gauges as to where his trade value is really at. And that was the topic of this thread. What his trade value would be. Not what he means to the Titans or how good of a year he had last season.

Well the DT that got moved from Green Bay to Cleveland fetched a second rounder, so AH would probably receive a better offer.

OzTitan
03-10-2008, 08:49 PM
Were you serious with this? You don't care to compare him with other DTs? This entire thread is about his trade value, and to gauge trade value you have to compare him to other players that have been dealt such as Rodgers and Jenkins to see where you think his value lies. I'm not diminishing his value based on what Sapp did in the past. I was simply using players such as Sapp, Rodgers and Jenkins as gauges as to where his trade value is really at. And that was the topic of this thread. What his trade value would be. Not what he means to the Titans or how good of a year he had last season.

Your post didn't make mention of anything to do with trading (which, while the original topic, has strayed since) - I figured since you brought up a retired future HOF DT and offered him as a comparison you were trying to say "put AH's season into perspective".

Of course trade value wise comparisons need to be made (preferably active players only though, makes more sense :P), but AH isn't about to be traded for a 3rd and a 5th, so I'm not sure they offer good comparisons really, no.

Joeyjr09
03-10-2008, 09:00 PM
Your post didn't make mention of anything to do with trading (which, while the original topic, has strayed since) - I figured since you brought up a retired future HOF DT and offered him as a comparison you were trying to say "put AH's season into perspective".

Of course trade value wise comparisons need to be made (preferably active players only though, makes more sense :P), but AH isn't about to be traded for a 3rd and a 5th, so I'm not sure they offer good comparisons really, no.

Jenkins and Rodgers at their peak value a couple years ago would have fetched 1st rounders, I think we could agree on that. They have had some down year's since. If Haynesworth takes a step back to what he played early in his career along with his injuries and malcontent attitude, his value could easily be in the 3rd/5th range where Rodgers and Jenkins where regarded as this past season. And fact is that he's far more likely to go the route of Rodgers and Jenkins then of Sapp (who is the type of player that would land 2 1sts during his prime).

Joeyjr09
03-10-2008, 09:01 PM
Well the DT that got moved from Green Bay to Cleveland fetched a second rounder, so AH would probably receive a better offer.

Go read my posts man, I said Haynesworth is worthy of a mid 1st. Just not the crazy 2 1sts that some Titan fan on here said he was worth.

Cashmoney
03-10-2008, 09:04 PM
Go read my posts man, I said Haynesworth is worthy of a mid 1st. Just not the crazy 2 1sts that some Titan fan on here said he was worth.

I know this. But if Joey Galloway can get two firsts, who's to say Haynesworth can't?

A Perfect Score
03-10-2008, 09:09 PM
I know this. But if Joey Galloway can get two firsts, who's to say Haynesworth can't?

joey galloway didnt cleat someone in the face first...but beswides that, it would really take a team to fall in love with a player to offer 2 firsts for them. I mean, i am over the cleating incident myself, but as a player, he will always be red flagged by other teams because of this incident.

Cashmoney
03-10-2008, 09:13 PM
I really think people are overblowing Haynesworths stomping incident in terms of trade value. If pacman is still receiving trade considerations with all of his off/on field problems not to mention the fact that he missed a year. Im pretty sure plenty of teams would come calling if the Titans put Haynesworth on the trading block.

OzTitan
03-10-2008, 09:14 PM
What he is "worth" is not really relevant, it's what the Titans would be willing to take to ship him off that is relevant, and I just don't see them doing that unless it was something like two 1st's - i.e. something that was too good to pass over. This is my enitre point really - it's unlikely any team would give up that much, and it's unlikely the Titans would accept less right now. You have to understand that getting rid of AH is a huge gamble for the Titans after his impact last season and could set the defense back years. Getting DP's in return only adds to the gamble. Sure, it's also a gamble to re-sign him to big money and see how it goes, but I actually think that's less of a gamble not so much to do with AH but due to the Titans' healthy cap situation. At least with the latter they give AH and the D a chance to be as dominant as it was in 07 for more years to come - shipping him off ends that possibility so it has to be worth their while to do it, and a mid 1st rounder doesn't offer that worth IMO.

Cashmoney
03-10-2008, 09:21 PM
I agree with not getting rid of AH Oztitan. IMO he is the motor to our D.

TacticaLion
03-10-2008, 09:49 PM
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/jenleigh120402/HAYNESWORTHstomp.jpg

Cashmoney
03-10-2008, 09:51 PM
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/jenleigh120402/HAYNESWORTHstomp.jpg

IDK, seems like an epic fail to me.

Bobo
03-10-2008, 10:21 PM
Sorry but that is still just your opinion, AND the opinion of a fan of the team he plays for. Not exactly a credible opinion IMO. You could make a case for guys like Freeney and Tommie Harris being more dominant defensive forces when healthy.

And one season of great play does not make a player the most dominant in the league. Countless other players have played above and beyond when their contract was on the line.

Sorry but i'm not buying it. Until this season Haynesworth was just a face in the crowd.

So if you're a fan of the team a guy plays for, you must be a homer w/o a credible opinion? I can't count the number of times I've seen a football fan talk about a player of a team who he is not a fan of say something completely wrong about that player. I bet the vast majority of those types hardly ever watch the player in question and just get useless opinions from sources like say from ESPN :barf:

I'm pretty sure you haven't watched much of Haynseworth before this year if you say he was just a face in the crowd before this year. He was a Pro Bowl alternate a few years ago. Opposing coaches talked about how he could take over a game. He had potential to be more, and he accomplished that somewhat this year (injury held him back again). But his impact on games was not just average before this year.

As far as the head stomp thing, no one knows if something like that will ever happen again. People can change, or they can stay f'd up. If you listen to him, he sounds believable about his change. But he's still a risk in my mind. For trade value, you never know. It only takes one....and Al Davis still lives. I still wouldn't trade him, I'd live with the risk.

Joeyjr09
03-10-2008, 11:43 PM
I know this. But if Joey Galloway can get two firsts, who's to say Haynesworth can't?

Bro your gonna ignore recent trades of Williams, Rodgers and Jenkins who all play the same position as Haynesworth and are much better gauges for his value and bring up a trade that happened 8 years ago, to a player that plays pretty much the exact opposite position and try to act like that is a logical point as to why Haynesworth should be worth 2 1sts?

Williams, Jenkins, and Rodgers are the rule. Galloway is the exception. No way Haynesworth will fetched 2 1sts. Franchise QBs and shutdown CBs get traded for less then that. Haynesworth is worth a mid 1st at this point.

Cashmoney
03-11-2008, 12:26 AM
Bro your gonna ignore recent trades of Williams, Rodgers and Jenkins who all play the same position as Haynesworth and are much better gauges for his value and bring up a trade that happened 8 years ago, to a player that plays pretty much the exact opposite position and try to act like that is a logical point as to why Haynesworth should be worth 2 1sts?

Williams, Jenkins, and Rodgers are the rule. Galloway is the exception. No way Haynesworth will fetched 2 1sts. Franchise QBs and shutdown CBs get traded for less then that. Haynesworth is worth a mid 1st at this point.

The galloway thing was sarcasm. Im not saying someone will necessarily give the titans 2 first rounders, but thats probably what it would take for the titans to have an interest, he means that much to our defense.

TitanHope
03-11-2008, 01:47 AM
Read it... then make your own decision.

I already have. I don't believe anything Justin Hartwig has to say, and thats not me being stubborn. Hartwig left Tennessee with bad blood in his heart, and he'd probably take a shot at the janitor if he could. He always thought he was better than he actually was, which caused him to be nothing more than a mouth full of hot air. No time to find the quote, but I believe Hartwig told a reporter that the Titans not attempting to re-sign him would be one of their biggest mistakes in their franchise history. That article reminds me of the clip of Igor Olshansky stating that New England would be more afraid of the Chargers heading into the AFCCG than San Diego would be of Pats. Hartwig's a punk, and always has been.

Nevertheless, I will agree that Haynesworth has had anger issues in the past, but my argument is that his temper has never caused him to go after a defenseless man's face, or an equivelant crime, on multiple occasions. Besides, he's received treatment for those problems and has shown no signs that he'll resort to that type of behavior when provoked.

Oh whatever. Credibility? From you? Keep it.

I'd rather have a player that wants to smoke marijuana than a player that will stomp on a player's unprotected head when he gets mad. Football is a game of passion, and Haynesworth (apparently) can't control his.

How many players in the history of the NFL have smoked marijuana (or have gotten caught for it)? How many have stomped on another player's head? Call me crazy... claim that I've lost "credibility"... do whatever makes you feel good. I'd rather have a stoner than a thug.

Thats not a, "OMG! I've lost all respect for j00, even though I don't even know j00z!!!1!" remark. It's a, "Since you just said something incredibly ridiculous, I can't hold you in the same regard anymore," remark. They're two separate thoughts. No doubt that you don't value my opinion of you, but saying something disagreeable is stil disagreeable, no matter who views it.

As for marijuana vs anger issues, I hardly see how marijuana is better. Marijuana gets a player suspended as well, and who knows how into pot the player is. It's a better alternative until the player is the next Ricky Williams. Anger issues are more easily controlled and monitored than drug use.

I'm sure many players have been busted for pot, or have at least used it. I guess that makes it more acceptable in your eyes, but not in mine. I only know of Haynesworth when it comes to head stomps, but rate of occurence doesn't decide which is worse for a player to have. Haynesworth's crime may have been more severe in the short run, but that has no effect on the difficulty of said person breaking that habit or behavior. And staying on the note of you being mistaken, I'm fairly sure that a drug user is closer to a thug than a guy who lost control of his anger.

Joeyjr09
03-11-2008, 07:26 AM
The galloway thing was sarcasm. Im not saying someone will necessarily give the titans 2 first rounders, but thats probably what it would take for the titans to have an interest, he means that much to our defense.

But as I've already stated in a previous post, I was trying to gauge his value on the trade market. Not his value to the Titans. The rest of the league doesn't care in the least about what he's worth to the Titans.

OzTitan
03-11-2008, 08:23 AM
But as I've already stated in a previous post, I was trying to gauge his value on the trade market. Not his value to the Titans. The rest of the league doesn't care in the least about what he's worth to the Titans.

Er, well they should, cause what he's worth to the Titans will dictate what they'd accept, which is kinda an important part of any trade ;)

I mean, what point is there discussing perceived trade value when it's the trading team's evaluation that ultimately matters. I don't see the Titans being desperate to trade him off, and that probably matters just as much as any other factor in a player's trade value. If it's obvious a team wants to get rid of a guy his value will drop. So the value offered would have to convince the Titans to get rid of a guy they're probably happy to work out a long term deal with. That in itself is a pretty big value increment.

Cashmoney
03-11-2008, 11:37 AM
But as I've already stated in a previous post, I was trying to gauge his value on the trade market. Not his value to the Titans. The rest of the league doesn't care in the least about what he's worth to the Titans.

Uhh, yea they do care what the Titans think he's worth because that's kinda who determines if he gets traded or not.

Joeyjr09
03-11-2008, 02:39 PM
Uhh, yea they do care what the Titans think he's worth because that's kinda who determines if he gets traded or not.

Um.. we've already established that he's not really gonna get dealt because the Titans won't part with him so this is all mute. What we were discussing is his worth on the trade market and his worth on the trade market is significantly different then what hes worth to the Titans.

So like I said, the rest of the league doesn't care what he's worth to the Titans, they'll only give up what they think he will be worth to them.

OzTitan
03-11-2008, 05:09 PM
Sounds like a pretty pointless discussion then honestly. I thought we were talking about what the Titans would consider in draft day trades....

You know, the like the original post says :P

Joeyjr09
03-11-2008, 05:38 PM
Sounds like a pretty pointless discussion then honestly. I thought we were talking about what the Titans would consider in draft day trades....

You know, the like the original post says :P

It's been a pointless discussion from the get go. Everyone knows he's not getting dealt. Don't know how it got this far