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EvilMonkey
03-12-2008, 08:29 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3290462

Broncos GM Ted Sundquist was just fired. Kinda surprised about the timing of it. Why wait til the middle of the off-season if something was wrong?? Curious to other's thoughts on this and if anything knows more than what this article has.

TimD
03-12-2008, 08:31 PM
Right before the draft? Kinda weird. You expect this stuff before the off season. Maybe now we can get a D-Rob for picks or Foxworth trade..

Thunder&Lightning
03-12-2008, 08:33 PM
Dont know much about him but they had to have had a very good reason to make this move since its such a bad time of the year. Middle of FA and almost the draft...

Bengals1690
03-12-2008, 08:35 PM
Am i mistaken in thinking that Mike Shanahan makes all the draft picks?

Prowler
03-12-2008, 08:39 PM
i don't know much about the broncos, but from the outside...they have a qb of the future, always set at rb, great secondary...not their fault that they play the colts every year in the playoffs. they had one down year last year but were 7-9, pretty much won the games they should have, and had two players die before the season. rough year. Millen stays but yet Sundquist goes...

imprint3454
03-12-2008, 08:42 PM
...Millen stays but yet Sundquist goes...That's what makes the NFL so interesting isn't it?

TimD
03-12-2008, 08:43 PM
Via Jets Discussion Thread

"Apparently, NFL Radio’s Solomon Wilcotts is reporting that the Jets and Broncos are back around the negotiation table, working “feverishly” to try and hammer out a deal for Dewayne Robertson."

Interesting.

eaglesalltheway
03-12-2008, 08:53 PM
Don't know much about the guy or the team, but I am shocked by the timing.

toonsterwu
03-12-2008, 08:54 PM
My honest guess is simple - my guess is that Shanny wanted something and managed to get Sundquist fired. Just a guess, nothing to base it on. Sundquist was the final scapegoat there. If Shanny can't turn things around, he might be gone sooner than later. Make or break time. I can see a D.Rob deal happening now - that feels very much like a Shanny move and they do have that extra 4th to play with.

BaLLiN
03-12-2008, 08:57 PM
Lets hope this doesn't screw them over as far as the draft goes.

BroadwayJoe10
03-12-2008, 09:11 PM
My honest guess is simple - my guess is that Shanny wanted something and managed to get Sundquist fired. Just a guess, nothing to base it on. Sundquist was the final scapegoat there. If Shanny can't turn things around, he might be gone sooner than later. Make or break time. I can see a D.Rob deal happening now - that feels very much like a Shanny move and they do have that extra 4th to play with.

That's right, i forgot they had the extra 4th. That seems like a logical reason for him being fired, it'll be interesting to see the broncos' official word on it.

Dam8610
03-12-2008, 09:14 PM
Shanahan has been GM before, I'm sure he can do it on a temporary basis for the draft, though I don't want that if I'm a Broncos fan.

Jensen
03-12-2008, 09:20 PM
His name reminds me of Sunkist.

bored of education
03-12-2008, 09:35 PM
This could get interesting!

San Diego Chicken
03-12-2008, 09:36 PM
This Sundquist guy is just the fall guy. Shanahan has complete control over the personnel desisions, has for years. In fact it was probably Shanahan who fired his "GM".

andyjo672
03-12-2008, 09:38 PM
For some reason I just get the feeling GMs make less of a difference in football than they do in baseball, especially with regards to talent evaluation and acquisition, so I don't know how big of a deal this is with the time of year thing.

I could be completely wrong though...

jaffe28
03-12-2008, 09:42 PM
He's been the GM forever. Shanny makes the final decisions but they've always credited Sundquist as being an integral part of the process. The Broncos are my team and I keep up pretty well. There were no rumblings about this. Something weird had to happen because the timing is ridiculous.

Honestly, I hope this doesn't turn into a trade with the Jets. I'd just as soon keep the extra 4th and Foxworth and pick up another DT in the draft.

20yardline
03-12-2008, 09:46 PM
Mike Shanahan is basically the GM. This is a token firing in my opinion. It is to show the fans they are making a change since Shanahan cannot be fired or at least wont be.

Dam8610
03-12-2008, 09:58 PM
For some reason I just get the feeling GMs make less of a difference in football than they do in baseball, especially with regards to talent evaluation and acquisition, so I don't know how big of a deal this is with the time of year thing.

I could be completely wrong though...

You're definitely wrong there. The Colts and Patriots wouldn't be half the teams they are today without Bill Polian and Scott Pioli respectively. Polian was the one who made the Manning over Leaf decision, and has put 2-3 (if not more) starters on the field from just about every draft since he came to Indianapolis. Scott Pioli has done just about the same for the Patriots. Without those GMs (or "VP of Personnel" in Pioli's case) finding the late round scheme fits that wind up being gems for their teams, they'd both fluctuate year in and out like most NFL teams.

Dam8610
03-12-2008, 10:01 PM
Another great example of this is the Browns turning it around under Phil Savage after years upon years of toiling away in mediocrity. If all the moves he's made this offseason work out, he should be executive of the year.

jaffe28
03-12-2008, 10:07 PM
Mike Shanahan is basically the GM. This is a token firing in my opinion. It is to show the fans they are making a change since Shanahan cannot be fired or at least wont be.

That would only make sense if there was a huge outcry from the fans to fire Shanahan or someone else. There hasn't been. Opinions are split on whether or not the Broncos should be more involved in free agency or if this slow approach is better, but there hasn't been any outpouring of anger that would demand a scapegoat at this point in time. The bloodletting already happened with the firing of the D Coordinator right after the season.

Number 10
03-12-2008, 10:15 PM
i don't know much about the broncos, but from the outside...they have a qb of the future, always set at rb, great secondary...not their fault that they play the colts every year in the playoffs. they had one down year last year but were 7-9, pretty much won the games they should have, and had two players die before the season. rough year. Millen stays but yet Sundquist goes...

You are forgetting about the 2 most important aspects of football.

Offensive and Defensive lines...both of which suck in Denver which is why they are up and down.

bored of education
03-12-2008, 10:18 PM
hi njx, where have you been!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

T-RICH49
03-12-2008, 10:19 PM
hey he's back :)

Diehard
03-12-2008, 10:45 PM
and no. no broncos fan in their right mind lays most of (or really, even much of) the blame at sundquists's feet. but let's not act like the broncos just suffered some major loss.

Exactly. Shanahan has the final say on pretty much all personnel decisions. Sundquist was completely expendable.

It will be interesting to see who they bring in the fill the GM role. If they promote from within, well, then Shanahan remains totally in the driver's seat. However, if they bring in someone established from outside the organization, then I think the writing will be on the wall for Shanahan. He's not the kind of guy who would accept having his decision-making authority reduced...

Anyway, the timing is just bizarre. If I had to guess, I'd hazard that the powers-that-be got pissed off that no progress had been made on improving the DL...

Iamcanadian
03-12-2008, 11:01 PM
In these situations, it is usually a pwer struggle within the organization and probably was between him and Shanny.

Number 10
03-12-2008, 11:34 PM
So if Shanny has the final word....maybe he should have been the one that received the red card?

Play Hard
03-13-2008, 12:44 AM
i don't know much about the broncos, but from the outside...they have a qb of the future, always set at rb, great secondary...not their fault that they play the colts every year in the playoffs. they had one down year last year but were 7-9, pretty much won the games they should have, and had two players die before the season. rough year. Millen stays but yet Sundquist goes...

If they should have won the games they should have then why did the Raiders own them both times. The first game was won by a bs timeout by shanarat. The second game Lane made the proper adjustments and out coached the rat.

Eagles own the NFC East
03-13-2008, 01:51 AM
If the broncos have a bad season, think Shanny could get fired?

jth1331
03-13-2008, 03:19 AM
i'm probably in the minority, but i don't strongly disagree... that said, i'm not sure there's anyone i'd want right now to replace him. he DID do a fantastic job about a decade ago, and we have been one of the more consistent clubs since our last super bowl win (only one losing season since 2000). in the end, i think bowlen needs to force him to realize that drafting people like clarett is unacceptable, and that signing guys like daryl gardner and dale carter won't fly in the future. maybe he's turned it around? i like the last two drafts. and had darrent not been shot, we'd have three decent years of drafting. granted, only one of those years has focused at all on the trenches.

*shrug* i go back and forth quite a bit on shanny's future with the team. part of the problem, imo, was that we never did have that truly awful season. we haven't had the chance to pick in the top ten (iirc, we haven't had a top ten pick longer than any other team (1991)), and this year is the highest we've picked since 1996 (15). not that draft position is the end all by any means, but it seems like every other team has had a few chances to get some of those top rated guys a few times, where we haven't.

As much as some hate has arised from Shanahan, I bet a majority of teams would take a coach with his success over the years. However, I think his time has come to an end and a change is needed. I mean, at some point, you need a change within the team to get some fresh blood in to fire up the juices.

If they should have won the games they should have then why did the Raiders own them both times. The first game was won by a bs timeout by shanarat. The second game Lane made the proper adjustments and out coached the rat.

Raiders did not "own" the Broncos in the 1st game. If anything, the Raiders were lucky it was close at the end. I remember the lightning delay absolutely killed momentum the Broncos had.
Second game, different story. Broncos were completely demoralized and played like crap and got thrashed.

If the broncos have a bad season, think Shanny could get fired?

Honestly, if its another losing season, I want him gone if someone else is available to step in.
However, he probably will get another pass, well, maybe, maybe not. Pat Bowlen seems irritated that the team went downhill the past 2 years and I suspect if he doesn't see a significant improvement, something will be done.

BlindSite
03-13-2008, 03:44 AM
For some reason I just get the feeling GMs make less of a difference in football than they do in baseball, especially with regards to talent evaluation and acquisition, so I don't know how big of a deal this is with the time of year thing.

I could be completely wrong though...

Never heard of Ernie Accorsi huh?

rascal
03-13-2008, 09:37 AM
You are forgetting about the 2 most important aspects of football.

Offensive and Defensive lines...both of which suck in Denver which is why they are up and down.

Their interior o-line is still solid. You have to remember that they lost two starting o-lineman last year and then had Lepsis retire at the end of the year (he admitted that he probably shouldn't have played last year). They have Nalen and Hamilton coming back, and Holland proved to be a nice pickup. Not to mention Kuper and Myers also having experience starting now. Their tackles are not good though.

On the d-line their DE's are pretty solid with Dumervil, Ekuban, Crowder, Moss, and Engleberger there. DT is not good though, but if they can pick up Robertson that would give them a pretty good starting duo in Thomas and Robertson with McKinley and probably a rookie backing them up.

Number 10
03-13-2008, 09:42 AM
Their interior o-line is still solid. You have to remember that they lost two starting o-lineman last year and then had Lepsis retire at the end of the year (he admitted that he probably shouldn't have played last year). They have Nalen and Hamilton coming back, and Holland proved to be a nice pickup. Not to mention Kuper and Myers also having experience starting now. Their tackles are not good though.

On the d-line their DE's are pretty solid with Dumervil, Ekuban, Crowder, Moss, and Engleberger there. DT is not good though, but if they can pick up Robertson that would give them a pretty good starting duo in Thomas and Robertson with McKinley and probably a rookie backing them up.

Give me all the guys that you think will be good players simply because of experience all you want...

Point remains the Denevr games I watched, their play in the trenches was awful, among the worst in the NFL if not THE worst.

rascal
03-13-2008, 09:46 AM
Look for the Broncos to promote Goodman to head GM (their head scout). I believe he was the driving force in bringing in Cutler, Moss, and Marshall.

One of the reasons why he was fired was probably because he sent an email to a reporter at the end of the season complaining about some of the moves that were made. Klis, the reporter, never made it public till Sundquist was fired.

Those frustrations came spilling out in an electronic message Sund- quist sent me Dec. 3, as yet another unsatisfying Broncos season unraveled.

"I'm personally willing to stand up for the decisions that have been made, but understand I don't necessarily agree with them. The military taught me a lot about how to handle situations like that," Sundquist wrote, after the Broncos blew a road game to lowly Oakland that dropped their record to 5-7.

Within 24 hours of the discouraging defeat, Sundquist fired off a lengthy, unsolicited e-mail. He shared the unenviable challenges of working for a football franchise ruled at the top by Shanahan, and the criticism always rolled downhill, falling on the head of a quarterback, defensive coordinator or general manager.

rascal
03-13-2008, 10:00 AM
Give me all the guys that you think will be good players simply because of experience all you want...

Point remains the Denevr games I watched, their play in the trenches was awful, among the worst in the NFL if not THE worst.

I don't understand what you are saying in the first sentence.

Among the worst if not the worst? It wasn't that bad but it was a decline compared to previous years. According to football outsiders there o-line ranked 13th run blocking and 14th pass blocking...hardly the worst. But it was a decline from the typical numbers we see, but again losing your starting guard (Hamilton) and center (Nalen) in addition to having your LT playing on one leg and your RT playing a new position it was learning experience across the board.

Defensively their lines ranked 27th against the run and 19th against the pass. Obviously the d-line needs improvement, but they drafted three guys last year so they are trying to address it but it will take some time. But I think getting better LBs (which IMO they have a better group this year than last year) and possibly Robertson will help their performance.

Diehard
03-13-2008, 10:01 AM
Point remains the Denevr games I watched, their play in the trenches was awful, among the worst in the NFL if not THE worst.

Our OL was bad, but we saw worse last year (e.g. KC's OL at Denver... ugly stuff for Chiefs fans).

I should probably take the 5th on the DL, though. Dumervil flashed plenty in the passing game, but still got killed by the run. We probably had the worst DT unit in the league. Engleberger as a starting DE? Ouch.

With all the young guys, the potential for improvement is certainly there. However, I don't see one guy on the entire DL who you could call "solid". That worries me...

jaffe28
03-13-2008, 11:17 AM
Coach Shananhan might be in a pretty tough spot by the end of this year. Even though there isn't a huge groundswell to fire him there's an undercurrent developing among fans. I've read a lot of, "if they have another losing year/don't make the playoffs/etc" next year then they should fire him. Problem is that the Broncos have finally decided to try and build with young players and that might take a couple years. They might be improving but not have it show in the win column this year. I'm a bit concerned we'll start over when we're already in the middle of starting over...

Shanahan's proven that when things come together he can do special things with a team. That's more than the majority of coaches in the NFL have done. As a fan, I hope the Broncos win the SB every year but I think we're probably two or three years away no matter who the coach is...