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swollja
03-17-2008, 03:42 PM
D'Brickashaw, Faneca, Mangold, Woody, and whoever

if I were McFadden I'd be praying to go to the Jets

Jakey
03-17-2008, 03:44 PM
Close...it looks the best on paper, but we will have to wait and see.

If the Jets landed a RT like Cherlius at the top of round 2, that would be rediculous! :)

BroadwayJoe10
03-17-2008, 03:49 PM
I've gotta agree with jakey 100%. As most people know, you can't judge a free agency until you can see the impact that they have on the team the following year, but the additions atleast look good. Brandon Moore is the worst player on the line and he isn't a slouch, but it would be nice to draft a RT so Woody could slide inside and moore could be a very quality backup, or an OG to compete with Moore and eventually take over. While not on the oline, the addition of tony richardson is going to help the running game out.

DawgBone
03-17-2008, 04:01 PM
D'Brickashaw, Faneca, Mangold, Woody, and whoever

if I were McFadden I'd be praying to go to the Jets

Browns do NOT have the best line but....

D'Brick < Thomas
Faneca > Steinbach, but by their play last year Steinbach wasnt far behind.
Mangold > Fraley
Woody < Tucker
whoever the RT was < Shaffer

not to mention I think the Browns have the very best depth on the OL in all of football.

I would take the left side of the Browns and Vikings over the Jets.

But why is this in the draft forumn?

swollja
03-17-2008, 04:12 PM
i guess it could go in either

mcfadden going to a team with the best oline pertains to the draft

art vandelay
03-17-2008, 04:14 PM
Why is this in the draft section?

Anyway, no I don't think they do. Woody is average and D'Brick is overrated to an extent. Faneca is the best on the line.

KCJ58
03-17-2008, 04:15 PM
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff24/KCJ58/51388056.jpg
This O-Line tops

art vandelay
03-17-2008, 04:16 PM
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff24/KCJ58/51388056.jpg
This O-Line tops

LOL, tops out at #32.

Larry121283
03-17-2008, 04:19 PM
Not even close.

MAYBE if Woody continues his solid play after finding a spot at ORT AND D'Brickashaw Ferguson actually remembers he is a stud (allowed 24.5 sacks in first two seasons...allowed 13.5 last year :eek: )...

Faneca wasn't very good last season (no one was on the Steelers OL).

Definite questions here...not even close to the best.

I'd even question if it is in the top half of the league, yet. They need to prove it, because they are all coming off very poor seasons sans Woody, but that could be a real head scratcher if ORT isn't for him after Year 2.

Addict
03-17-2008, 04:21 PM
pffff the jets line is NOTHING compared to the manbeast blocking bonanza the Lions will unleash upon the league...

Jakey
03-17-2008, 04:22 PM
If the Jets is not...then who's is???

Chucky
03-17-2008, 04:24 PM
I think the Browns could have one of the best Olines. The Chargers line is really good. THe Pats line was amazing except against the giants. The bucs have one of the best if not the best young O-line.

art vandelay
03-17-2008, 04:27 PM
The left side has to go to the Bills or Vikings. Peters & Dockery or McKinnie & Hutchinson. Overall, I'd say the Patriots.

Larry121283
03-17-2008, 04:29 PM
Jets last season were 21st for the run and 30th in the pass for OLs.

Woody and Faneca were poor against the run last year ranking in the NFL's bottom half for ypc at their position.

Best OLs last year were NE, NYG, CLE, GB, NO, IND...

Jakey
03-17-2008, 04:30 PM
Id say Joe Thomas and Eric Steinbach were the best LT/LG duo.

art vandelay
03-17-2008, 04:31 PM
Id say Joe Thomas and Eric Steinbach were the best LT/LG duo.

That's true, I forgot about them. They could very well be the best.

Larry121283
03-17-2008, 04:32 PM
New England and Indy have the best LT/LG combos, but Cleveland is right in after them...and probably will surpass them this year.

keylime_5
03-17-2008, 04:34 PM
Faneca and Woody are on the downside of their careers, D'Brick is alright, but not great (yet at least). Mangold is very good, but they aren't very deep and Brandon Moore at RG is only decent. New England's line is superior as is San Diego's, Dallas', Cleveland's and probably Minnesota's. All those lines are younger too. Jets do have a good front 5 now though which will help their offense tremendously.

Speaking of Cleveland's line, talk about depth and talent: Joe Thomas, Eric Steinbach, Ryan Tucker, Hank Fraley, Rex Hadnot, and Lennie Friedman. All those guys are really versatile too.

Splat
03-17-2008, 04:34 PM
No the Chiefs have the best OL wait sorry flash back never mind.:(

bigbluedefense
03-17-2008, 04:37 PM
No.

The end.

bsaza2358
03-17-2008, 04:39 PM
What have the Jets proven at all with this group? Is there any continuity? What is the real upside? Can they be coached well enough to reach whatever potential they have? We have no idea. Ask me in Week 6.

themaninblack
03-17-2008, 04:44 PM
if the bengals line can stay healthy we should be up there in the top 5 or so.

art vandelay
03-17-2008, 04:55 PM
New England and Indy have the best LT/LG combos, but Cleveland is right in after them...and probably will surpass them this year.

LOL the Colts with the best LT/LG combo?? Give me a break. New England's is better but I tend to think Matt Light is pretty overrated. Mankins is good though. Neither come close to Thomas/Steinbach, though.

BroadwayJoe10
03-17-2008, 04:57 PM
I personally like McKinnie and hutchinson as the best LT/LG combo in the league, but lets just hope mckinnie can stay outta trouble.

bigbluedefense
03-17-2008, 05:10 PM
based on last year i had them ranked like this:

1. New England
2. Dallas
3. Tennessee
4. Green Bay
5. Indy

With Jacksonville, Cleveland and NYG as outsiders looking in. I think this year, who knows, we don't know yet. Paper means nothing with olines. NE's oline doesn't look that impressive on paper, and it was easily the most dominant in the league. The only game where they looked mortal was in the SB. Let's not forget how dominant they were every other game.

ny10804
03-17-2008, 05:17 PM
based on last year i had them ranked like this:

1. New England
2. Dallas
3. Tennessee
4. Green Bay
5. Indy

With Jacksonville, Cleveland and NYG as outsiders looking in. I think this year, who knows, we don't know yet. Paper means nothing with olines. NE's oline doesn't look that impressive on paper, and it was easily the most dominant in the league. The only game where they looked mortal was in the SB. Let's not forget how dominant they were every other game.

Could you explain the Packers' rank? I must have been missing something this past season.

bigbluedefense
03-17-2008, 05:19 PM
Could you explain the Packers' rank? I must have been missing something this past season.

The Packers had the best Tackle duo in the league. And their interior played very well too. They were lacking a little bit in run blocking, but they lacked a true RB as well. When you come out with as many 4 WR/5 WR sets as the Packers did, for them to play at that level week in and week out speaks for itself. Its alot harder "looking good" when youre exposed as much as that line was.

kmartin575
03-17-2008, 05:30 PM
if the bengals line can stay healthy we should be up there in the top 5 or so.

Was Levi Jones injured last year? For your guys' sake I hope he was so he can have a reason for his poor play. I remember him getting benched because he got manhandled so badly by Jared Allen. I still think he is a good tackle and I hope he does return to form.

toonsterwu
03-17-2008, 05:32 PM
No, I don't think the Jets have the best OL, although they could have a top 10 unit, and perhaps a top 5 unit. The idea is that Faneca will allow Brick and Mangold to develop more, but that still has to happen for me to buy into it. Also, Faneca/Woody are on the downswing of their careers. Still good, but not likely to be great. Also, top OL's are usually relatively stable units, so I'd look for a team that hasn't had much turnover, if any.

Chucky
03-17-2008, 05:32 PM
I honestly think the Bucs will have one of the best O-lines in the league next year, especially if we add a LT in the draft like Chris Williams in the first

LT-Penn or Petigout or draft pick
LG- Arron Sears
C- Jeff Faine
RG- Davin Joseph
RT- Jeremy Trueblood

Nitschke-Hawk
03-17-2008, 05:32 PM
Aren't the Saints pretty good?

The Legend
03-17-2008, 05:36 PM
Brick hasnt prove himself
Woody is almost done
Mangold is good but not great center in my book
Faneca is great
and RT is a big deal who ever they get is a big need

Thunder&Lightning
03-17-2008, 05:39 PM
1. Patriots
2. Dallas
3. Chargers (if they get a RT)

The jets have the talent to be up there...

jetsfan0099
03-17-2008, 05:45 PM
Why is this in the draft section?

Anyway, no I don't think they do. Woody is average and D'Brick is overrated to an extent. Faneca is the best on the line.

How is Brick overrated?? Everyone is calling him horrible all of last year, I say he played better then most people say. I don't know what everyone thinks about him on these boards but a lot of people think hes a bust elsewhere. I watch him very closely and he was great for a period of time last year where he absolutely dominated every DE he faced, I think it was a 7 game stretch. He faded off towards the end of the year like he did as a rookie. He needs to be more consistent for 16 games and not just 7. But he has the tools to be a pro bowl caliber LT. Faneca can help.

jetsfan0099
03-17-2008, 05:50 PM
I personally like McKinnie and hutchinson as the best LT/LG combo in the league, but lets just hope mckinnie can stay outta trouble.

I agree. I think Ferguson-Faneca-Mangold is going to be good though, but its too early to say who has the best OL, thats a question only can be answered during the season. Its about whos OL works together and gets the job done, I like the Giants OL a lot.

TimD
03-17-2008, 05:51 PM
D'Brick Faneca Mangold Moore Woody

It sure looks good, but o-lines depend on chemistry as much as talent and experience. With Bill Callahan as an o-line coach it sure has potential to be great and give Clemens some time.

fenikz
03-17-2008, 05:52 PM
This sounds weird to say but the Cardinals have one of the best pass blocking lines in the NFL

Tied for the 8th fewest sacks allowed while passing the ball the 2nd most times

but all that is negated by the fact that they jump offside all the time and suck at run blocking

jetsfan0099
03-17-2008, 05:54 PM
Hey and guys, OG usually last into their late 30s, so a 31 year OG can easily have a good 4 years in him. And Woody will see about, he is 30 yrs old, and will work hard for us.

Cashmoney
03-17-2008, 05:55 PM
I'll take my Titans maulers any day of the week. Although I am biased.

BufFan71
03-17-2008, 06:10 PM
maybe if D'Brick would actually not get pushed backwards on run plays

If i was McFadden, i wouldnt want to get drafted by the JEts because they still have no QB, or defense


the way i look at it

Jason Peters > D'brick
Alan Faneca = Derrick Dockery
Melvin Fowler < Mangold
Brad Butler > Moore
Langston Walker > Woody


they dont even have the best line in the division imo

TimD
03-17-2008, 06:11 PM
maybe if D'Brick would actually not get pushed backwards on run plays

If i was McFadden, i wouldnt want to get drafted by the JEts because they still have no QB, or defense

Yeah but I think they have the best situation out of the top 6. He's got to be hoping for a trade up with Dallas.

kmartin575
03-17-2008, 06:12 PM
I'll take my Titans maulers any day of the week. Although I am biased.

Might have agreed last year but not so sure after the loss of Bell and Olson (he is retiring isn't he?). My opinion could change though depending on what happens with the draft.

Brothgar
03-17-2008, 06:14 PM
based on last year i had them ranked like this:

1. New England
2. Dallas
3. Tennessee
4. Green Bay
5. Indy

With Jacksonville, Cleveland and NYG as outsiders looking in. I think this year, who knows, we don't know yet. Paper means nothing with olines. NE's oline doesn't look that impressive on paper, and it was easily the most dominant in the league. The only game where they looked mortal was in the SB. Let's not forget how dominant they were every other game.

Kinda surprised not to see the Vikings anywhere on this this top 5 list. They did after all set a rookie up to be the NFC Rushing champ.

OzTitan
03-17-2008, 07:46 PM
Jets the best? Maybe in Madden, but in the real world, chemistry is a huge deal. While I didn't see each team extensively, down the stretch the best OL last season was the Giants IMO. Not for star power, but for chemistry and working as a unit. Adding Faneca is nice but the result isn't as simple as relying on the theory adding a top OG will do wonders.

goodlookin
03-17-2008, 08:03 PM
if alberts from virgina falls to the jets then id say they have the most versatile line and a great promising young line for years to come

bigbluedefense
03-17-2008, 08:12 PM
Kinda surprised not to see the Vikings anywhere on this this top 5 list. They did after all set a rookie up to be the NFC Rushing champ.

they have one of the best left sides but as a complete oline theyre not top 5. they can improve, but based on last year's performances, i have to rate the aforementioned lines above them.

jetsfan0099
03-17-2008, 08:34 PM
maybe if D'Brick would actually not get pushed backwards on run plays

If i was McFadden, i wouldnt want to get drafted by the JEts because they still have no QB, or defense


the way i look at it

Jason Peters > D'brick
Alan Faneca > Derrick Dockery
Melvin Fowler < Mangold
Brad Butler < Moore
Langston Walker < Woody


they dont even have the best line in the division imo

Thats better..

jetsfan0099
03-17-2008, 08:37 PM
Jets the best? Maybe in Madden, but in the real world, chemistry is a huge deal. While I didn't see each team extensively, down the stretch the best OL last season was the Giants IMO. Not for star power, but for chemistry and working as a unit. Adding Faneca is nice but the result isn't as simple as relying on the theory adding a top OG will do wonders.

I agree, the Jets helped themselves by addressing it and adding more talent instead of the practice squad guys last year. But chemistry is everything, its nice to know though that Faneca has already reached out to Brick and Mangold and actually went to the Knicks game yesterday with Brick. So I can see Brick and Mangold improving with the leadership of Faneca. You should know what thats like, didn't your OL get a lot better when you signed Kevan Mawae to give the leadership to your young guys?

DawgBone
03-17-2008, 08:42 PM
New England and Indy have the best LT/LG combos, but Cleveland is right in after them...and probably will surpass them this year.

That is far from the truth. Joe Thomas is better than both teams LT's and Eric Steinbach is at least even or not far behind the LG's of the respective teams.

Your only arguement is exsperience, but after the first game of the season the Browns entire OL only gave up 7 sacks. thats less than .5 per game.

OzTitan
03-17-2008, 08:44 PM
I agree, the Jets helped themselves by addressing it and adding more talent instead of the practice squad guys last year. But chemistry is everything, its nice to know though that Faneca has already reached out to Brick and Mangold and actually went to the Knicks game yesterday with Brick. So I can see Brick and Mangold improving with the leadership of Faneca. You should know what thats like, didn't your OL get a lot better when you signed Kevan Mawae to give the leadership to your young guys?

Well, that and Mawae replaced an awful Justin Hartwig. But yeah, adding veteran leadership is a pretty big bonus usually. I think the Jets OL has the potential to be the best in the NFL, but obviously it's something that has to be seen to be fully believed first. Also, a lot of the "best OL in the NFL" tag comes with team success (quite often a prerequisite for pro bowl trips as well). A great OL will provide the foundations for a good offense, but the skill positions have to take advantage and without that it's hard to tell when an OL is doing top work.

DawgBone
03-17-2008, 08:44 PM
Faneca and Woody are on the downside of their careers, D'Brick is alright, but not great (yet at least). Mangold is very good, but they aren't very deep and Brandon Moore at RG is only decent. New England's line is superior as is San Diego's, Dallas', Cleveland's and probably Minnesota's. All those lines are younger too. Jets do have a good front 5 now though which will help their offense tremendously.

Speaking of Cleveland's line, talk about depth and talent: Joe Thomas, Eric Steinbach, Ryan Tucker, Hank Fraley, Rex Hadnot, and Lennie Friedman. All those guys are really versatile too.

You forgot Kevin Shaffer our starting RT, and Bentley is fully healthy now. He wont be a starter, but he has value as a back-up/mentor.

jetsfan0099
03-17-2008, 08:48 PM
Cleveland had a great OL last year, part of the reason why I think Derek Anderson is overrated. I think Brady Quinn is the real franchise QB on that team.

PACKmanN
03-17-2008, 08:51 PM
It belongs to the browns, wait until LeCharles Bentley, and they will have the best left side in football.

LT: Joe Thomas
LG: Eric Steinbach
OC: LeCharles Bentley
RG: Hank Fraley
RT: Kevin Shaffer

And they only have one player at the age of 30 or higher, how many teams could you say the same, and still be a top o-line in the league.

DawgBone
03-17-2008, 08:52 PM
Cleveland had a great OL last year, part of the reason why I think Derek Anderson is overrated. I think Brady Quinn is the real franchise QB on that team.

thank you. for having a great OL, very solid run game and maybe the top WR/TE tandem in the AFC, how did Anderson have the 2nd worste completion% in the NFL to go with 19 picks?

jetsfan0099
03-17-2008, 08:52 PM
Well, that and Mawae replaced an awful Justin Hartwig. But yeah, adding veteran leadership is a pretty big bonus usually. I think the Jets OL has the potential to be the best in the NFL, but obviously it's something that has to be seen to be fully believed first. Also, a lot of the "best OL in the NFL" tag comes with team success (quite often a prerequisite for pro bowl trips as well). A great OL will provide the foundations for a good offense, but the skill positions have to take advantage and without that it's hard to tell when an OL is doing top work.

Yea usually when a team gets referred with the best OL thats usually a playoff team without a doubt, and a lot of times a SB team. You win the games in the trenches, I can't wait for this season to start, I am pumped about that added talent to the OL, hope Ferguson plays strong though, we need him to be a pro bowl type LT. He needs to be consistent, Mangold already is great, he should be even better this year, he will be a pro bowl C for a long time, once some of the older dudes retire that are getting in based off of name. We have the potential to field 2 pro bowlers on the OL, Faneca is a given, since his name is known, and Mangold is the 2nd. Last year our OL was like the worst in the NFL.

Number 10
03-17-2008, 08:52 PM
On paper they might be top 10.

But chemistry is the most important aspect of offensive line quality and the Jets don't have very much to look back on in that department. Also, Ferguson gets flat out dominated too often for me to really label him a top 5 LT in this league and that position is the most important across the line.

Dam8610
03-17-2008, 08:53 PM
based on last year i had them ranked like this:

1. New England
2. Dallas
3. Tennessee
4. Green Bay
5. Indy

With Jacksonville, Cleveland and NYG as outsiders looking in. I think this year, who knows, we don't know yet. Paper means nothing with olines. NE's oline doesn't look that impressive on paper, and it was easily the most dominant in the league. The only game where they looked mortal was in the SB. Let's not forget how dominant they were every other game.

I think you're forgetting a few games. Indy, Philadelphia, and Baltimore come to mind. Also I think you're underrating your own team's line.

Chucky
03-17-2008, 08:53 PM
It belongs to the browns, wait until LeCharles Bentley, and they will have the best left side in football.

LT: Joe Thomas
LG: Eric Steinbach
OC: LeCharles Bentley
RG: Hank Fraley
RT: Kevin Shaffer

And they only have one player at the age of 30 or higher, how many teams could you say the same, and still be a top o-line in the league.

I think Bentley would actually play G IMO, and fraley would stick at C. But realistically I would not really on Bentley to make any contributions for a while.

themaninblack
03-17-2008, 08:54 PM
Was Levi Jones injured last year? For your guys' sake I hope he was so he can have a reason for his poor play. I remember him getting benched because he got manhandled so badly by Jared Allen. I still think he is a good tackle and I hope he does return to form.

Ya he came back last year and was still obviously a bit hampered by his injuries. he gradually got better though and he should be fine this year for sure. If i'm not mistaken he was an alternate for the Pro Bowl this year even though he played bad initially.

jetsfan0099
03-17-2008, 08:56 PM
thank you. for having a great OL, very solid run game and maybe the top WR/TE tandem in the AFC, how did Anderson have the 2nd worste completion% in the NFL to go with 19 picks?

Don't like Anderson?? Yea when ever I watched him. I never come out impressed, something about him I just don't like. You guys had to resign Anderson since letting him go can get guys fired if he is the real deal. I remember him against the Jets, he had all day to throw, yet wasn't lighting us up, all he could do was dump offs to his WR and TE. I am a Notre Dame fan, watched every game of Quinn, he is a beast, I want to see him play already! lol I really believe hes a franchise QB.
But yea when I watched Browns games also, I came very impressed with that OL, they were very very good last year. Reason why I don't understand why Anderson threw so many INT to lose out in the playoffs?

bigbluedefense
03-17-2008, 08:59 PM
I think you're forgetting a few games. Indy, Philadelphia, and Baltimore come to mind. Also I think you're underrating your own team's line.

Philly and Baltimore got their with blitzes. Its hard to fault the line entirely for that, when you have to factor in blitz pick up by the backs and TEs. Youre right about Indy, they got there with 4 guys. The Giants did as well, we only blitzed 30% of the time in the SB.

Still, 2 bad games is pretty impressive.


As for the Giants, I think we have a top 5 run blocking line for sure. Pass protection leaves some to be desired. We have trouble with speed rushers off the edge. Eli also makes our pass protection look a lot better than it is. He adjusts all the protections, and he has great pocket presence. Thats why it takes him so long to snap the ball, he almost runs a no huddle with a huddle. Sometimes its too much, and we can't snap it in time.

keylime_5
03-17-2008, 09:00 PM
Bentley's pretty much never gonna play a down for the Browns, or at least that's what I hear. They say if LCB does play again, it will be in another city, but that's just what I heard. Either way Browns fans are (or at least should be) going on like Bentley's not gonna play for us this year. Even without him we have an incredible line that is insanely deep. Other than maybe Minnesota I don't think there is a better left side than Thomas/Steinbach. Joe Thomas is gonna make the pro bowl every year for the next ten years if he can help it.

But when talking about comparing O-Lines using stats, you get into a real fallacy b/c things like play calling and the QB can really ruin a good O-Line's sacks given up total. Just look at Charlie Frye last year or David Carr his entire career (his line wasn't good, but it wasn't as bad as he made it look either); or look at the Lions last year, they passed to the point that too much pressure was put on the line to protect against the blitz. And remember Oakland in 2007 with their dinosaur offense that made their mediocre line look like it was a bunch of high schoolers?

DawgBone
03-17-2008, 09:03 PM
Bentley's pretty much never gonna play a down for the Browns, or at least that's what I hear. They say if LCB does play again, it will be in another city, but that's just what I heard. Either way Browns fans are (or at least should be) going on like Bentley's not gonna play for us this year. Even without him we have an incredible line that is insanely deep. Other than maybe Minnesota I don't think there is a better left side than Thomas/Steinbach. Joe Thomas is gonna make the pro bowl every year for the next ten years if he can help it.

But when talking about comparing O-Lines using stats, you get into a real fallacy b/c things like play calling and the QB can really ruin a good O-Line's sacks given up total. Just look at Charlie Frye last year or David Carr his entire career (his line wasn't good, but it wasn't as bad as he made it look either); or look at the Lions last year, they passed to the point that too much pressure was put on the line to protect against the blitz. And remember Oakland in 2007 with their dinosaur offense that made their mediocre line look like it was a bunch of high schoolers?

Browns season opener last year......Charlie Frye was sacked 5 times in the first 17 minutes of the game. One was credited to Joe THomas (which wasnt his fault). The rest of the season after Anderson took over in week 2, the Browns gave up 7 sacks and Joe Thomas never gave up another one....

Dam8610
03-17-2008, 09:09 PM
And they only have one player at the age of 30 or higher, how many teams could you say the same, and still be a top o-line in the league.

The Colts, the Chargers, and the Giants come to mind.

Dam8610
03-17-2008, 09:22 PM
Philly and Baltimore got their with blitzes. Its hard to fault the line entirely for that, when you have to factor in blitz pick up by the backs and TEs. Youre right about Indy, they got there with 4 guys. The Giants did as well, we only blitzed 30% of the time in the SB.

I can see that I guess, however I'm sure the Eagles and Ravens weren't the only teams to blitz that line, and they stayed solid in most every other game (the Dallas game and the first Giants game Brady got pressured/hit a few times too, but less so then the aforementioned 4 games). I think the thing that behooved the Ravens and Eagles is that they were able to more successfully leave their CBs on an island than most teams and therefore could bring more pressure without necessarily sacrificing a great deal in coverage. One of the things the Patriots offense has been great at over the years is taking pressure off Brady through scheme with screen and drags (and now they have the master of the drag route in Wes Welker to help with that), but those two teams were able to neutralize some of that for a while, as well as get pressure when they tried to throw deep.

Larry121283
03-17-2008, 10:22 PM
That is far from the truth. Joe Thomas is better than both teams LT's and Eric Steinbach is at least even or not far behind the LG's of the respective teams.

Your only arguement is exsperience, but after the first game of the season the Browns entire OL only gave up 7 sacks. thats less than .5 per game.
Statistically, your argument doesn't hold up.

On paper, sure...Thomas/Steinbach have the "name" value...but NE and INDY had better years from that side of the line.

Gridiron
03-17-2008, 10:54 PM
Absolutely not.

D'Brick still has to prove himself and we still have a complete JAG at RG.

Brick-Faneca-Mangold-Moore-Woody

Has amazing potential but not quite elite.

niel89
03-17-2008, 11:00 PM
until we see what happens next year, i have to say that NE has the be best. they gave tom brady all day to throw for almost a full year.

Brothgar
03-17-2008, 11:01 PM
I will say that Mangold is one of the better centers in the league though

jetsfan0099
03-18-2008, 08:08 AM
I hope the Jets have a top 10, that would be great. I am sick of having a horrible OL. Last time we had a dominant unit that was 2004. That OL was sick.

LT-Fabini LG-Kendall C-Mawae RG-Moore RT-McKenzie

It had Curtis Martin running for his career high and lead the league in yards. But then we let McKenzie go, then Fabini got old and stunk, Mawae got older and injured then left. And we went downhill.

keylime_5
03-18-2008, 08:17 AM
Statistically, your argument doesn't hold up.

On paper, sure...Thomas/Steinbach have the "name" value...but NE and INDY had better years from that side of the line.

You know I just typed two paragraphs about how statistics for O-Lines can be extremely deceiving. Light is no Thomas, and Steinbach isn't any worse than Mankins. New England has a sick line no doubt, but a lot of that is scheme and Tom Brady's release too.

NY+Giants=NYG
03-18-2008, 10:31 AM
Philly and Baltimore got their with blitzes. Its hard to fault the line entirely for that, when you have to factor in blitz pick up by the backs and TEs. Youre right about Indy, they got there with 4 guys. The Giants did as well, we only blitzed 30% of the time in the SB.

Still, 2 bad games is pretty impressive.


As for the Giants, I think we have a top 5 run blocking line for sure. Pass protection leaves some to be desired. We have trouble with speed rushers off the edge. Eli also makes our pass protection look a lot better than it is. He adjusts all the protections, and he has great pocket presence. Thats why it takes him so long to snap the ball, he almost runs a no huddle with a huddle. Sometimes its too much, and we can't snap it in time.

I'd toss our name there. Really since 2004 our o-line has gotten better and better, not to mention we are deep AND versatile. But I do agree speed guys can get the best of David D. David D got his jock handed to him in the superbowl. Everytime I looked he was getting his butt shoved back or just beat by Thomas.

If I had to change something I would get a LT and move David D back or draft a better LG than Rich S. and this can help us when we run 38 power.

TimD
03-18-2008, 10:42 AM
They just signed Franks. Is he a good blocker?

art vandelay
03-18-2008, 11:09 AM
This topic is funny. The Jets have the 3rd best line in their division. And the 4th is Miami who currently has 6 OL players on their entire roster. Their projected starting o-line right now:

Julius Wilson > Justin Smiley > Samson Satele > Ikechuku Ndukwe > Vernon Carey

jetsfan0099
03-18-2008, 11:38 AM
This topic is funny. The Jets have the 3rd best line in their division. And the 4th is Miami who currently has 6 OL players on their entire roster. Their projected starting o-line right now:

Julius Wilson > Justin Smiley > Samson Satele > Ikechuku Ndukwe > Vernon Carey

Its not funny, its debatable, the Bills OL isn't that great. Jets potentially can be better, I say the Pats have the best OL in the division still. They played great besides the SB.
Bills all they have really is Peters, everyone else is average. Jets have 2 above average/stud O-linemen right now in Faneca and Mangold. And Brick has the potential to be a stud O-linemen/ above average player.

bigbluedefense
03-18-2008, 11:40 AM
I'd toss our name there. Really since 2004 our o-line has gotten better and better, not to mention we are deep AND versatile. But I do agree speed guys can get the best of David D. David D got his jock handed to him in the superbowl. Everytime I looked he was getting his butt shoved back or just beat by Thomas.

If I had to change something I would get a LT and move David D back or draft a better LG than Rich S. and this can help us when we run 38 power.

Yeah, I definitely agree. Im curious to see if we slide Whimper in at LT this year or if we keep our formula we have right now.

NY+Giants=NYG
03-18-2008, 11:43 AM
Yeah, I definitely agree. Im curious to see if we slide Whimper in at LT this year or if we keep our formula we have right now.

Guess it depends on training camp and preseason. He was out there in our goal line formation, and did a decent job. Hopefully he can progress and one day start.

portermvp84
03-18-2008, 11:43 AM
They are top five at least.

1. NE
2. Clevland
3. Dallas
4. NYJ
5. Indy

bigbluedefense
03-18-2008, 11:44 AM
Guess it depends on training camp and preseason. He was out there in our goal line formation, and did a decent job. Hopefully he can progress and one day start.

he looked real good in the Tampa playoff game too, when he subbed in for Diehl.

i was impressed, and ive been very critical of him in the past. its like he just turned on a switch.

art vandelay
03-18-2008, 11:53 AM
Its not funny, its debatable, the Bills OL isn't that great. Jets potentially can be better, I say the Pats have the best OL in the division still. They played great besides the SB.
Bills all they have really is Peters, everyone else is average. Jets have 2 above average/stud O-linemen right now in Faneca and Mangold. And Brick has the potential to be a stud O-linemen/ above average player.

LOL, keep talking out of your ass. Peters was a Pro-Bowler and Dockery lived up to the contract he got. So did Langston Walker. Brad Butler played surprisingly well in his first season at RG. Fowler is serviceable but can be upgraded. Peters is elite, Dockery is great, Walker is above average, Butler is slightly above average, Fowler is average.

You have to factor in that the Jets O-Line has never played together too. 2 new starters is a big change for an O-Line. I'd take the Bills line all day over the Jets. Without a consistent LT, Clemens won't be able to get comfortable in the pocket. 13.5 sacks is a lot to give up in one year.

Larry121283
03-18-2008, 12:36 PM
You know I just typed two paragraphs about how statistics for O-Lines can be extremely deceiving. Light is no Thomas, and Steinbach isn't any worse than Mankins. New England has a sick line no doubt, but a lot of that is scheme and Tom Brady's release too.

Statistics are, what they are, my friend.

When it comes down to it, you are comparing two top 3-7 offensive lines in both the pass and run game.

Of course protection schemes and run patterns matter, however, the same can hold true for the Browns line as well.

On the left side, as I said...Thomas and Steinbach have the name value, but their side wasn't as productive as was NE and even INDY from that side...regardless of who the names are.

Statistics, in their singular form can be very misleading, however, being able to combine statistics and simply observing often leads to the end result.

I'd take the OL of NE and INDY over any other team. NE found a hole in their line during the Super Bowl, but throughout the season, they were simply the best. INDY wasn't far off...and, if you are judging Thomas, don't forget Ugoh was actually better than Thomas last year. Find a rookie who allowed only 1 sack while committing only 1 penalty all year on the left side like Ugoh, and you have yourself a cookie (Thomas had 7 penalties and 4.5 sacks) while having a greater ypc than Thomas in runs behind him.

However, like I said, breaking them down, they are incredibly even...Cleveland's just has more upside. Although, Ugoh has elite upside, just as much as Joe Thomas.

TimD
03-18-2008, 12:39 PM
Ugoh was not better than Thomas last year. No way.

Geo
03-18-2008, 12:43 PM
Ugoh did miss 5 or 6 games last season. But he and Thomas are going to make annual trips to Honolulu imo, they are the future and it doesn't look like there's anyone in the AFC who will Ogden his overrated ass to the Pro Bowl. Then again Matt Light was somehow voted to the All-Pro team last year, so who knows.

bigbluedefense
03-18-2008, 12:44 PM
Ugoh was not better than Thomas last year. No way.

he was pretty good though. not Thomas good, but good. you have to be very disciplined to be a Colt linemen.

Larry121283
03-18-2008, 12:49 PM
Ugoh was not better than Thomas last year. No way.
Two totally different types of players, but yes, in fact, Ugoh, despite missing time, was better than Thomas last year.

Thomas had a bit of an issue with the early jumps last year.

Ugoh, stepped in for Tarik Glenn and the Colts didn't miss a beat, that speaks VOLUMES for the type of player he is considering how elite Tarik Glenn was before retiring last year.

619
03-18-2008, 01:07 PM
I got the Jets right behind NE ..

1. New England
2. NYJ
3. Green Bay
4. Cleveland
5. Tennessee

Jakey
03-18-2008, 01:11 PM
Two totally different types of players, but yes, in fact, Ugoh, despite missing time, was better than Thomas last year.

Thomas had a bit of an issue with the early jumps last year.

Ugoh, stepped in for Tarik Glenn and the Colts didn't miss a beat, that speaks VOLUMES for the type of player he is considering how elite Tarik Glenn was before retiring last year.

Joe Thomas was elite from about week 3...he didnt allow any pressure from then on. IMO he was one of the best O-Linemen in the whole league last year.

And thats coming from a bias (against the browns) Steelers fan.

Jughead10
03-18-2008, 01:14 PM
Wow talk about overrating. The Jets were one of the worst O-lines in the league last year. Two signings does nothing to make this unit top 5. Mangold is a stud but Ferguson didn't play as well as he did as a rookie. He needs to get better. Didn't see a whole lot of Faneca last year but many Pitt fans seem to think he has lost something. Could be he wasn't surrounded with the talent he had been in the past. If he hasn't lost something, you have got yourself an all pro. Not crazy about Woody. Has some versatility but is average in my opinion. Plus O-lines need time to work as a unit together. If a Jets fan is expecting a top 5 O-line next season, they are going to be dissapointed.

xooberon
03-18-2008, 01:15 PM
ugoh was terrible last year, giving pressure up left, right and centre. it's a measure of how good manning is that it didn't affect him that much

Geo
03-18-2008, 01:21 PM
I saw every snap Ugoh played last year, and it was nothing of that sort.

Maybe you're thinking of Charlie Johnson, who played at LT because of Ugoh's injury, and is functionally inept at both pass-blocking and run-blocking.

rickscott
03-18-2008, 01:24 PM
You mean that NE line that was abused in the Super Bowl? Injuries are a part of every teams' season so unless a team has depth that covers an injury to a G and a T during the year, they really can't be considered best

The Great Jonathan Vilma
03-18-2008, 01:30 PM
i would say certainly not, and for simple reasons.

Last year the line was not very good.
DBrick isn't at this point a 'premier' tackle
2 new additions means that we haven't seen them play together, thus cannot know what to expect.

IMO this is just to premature to make this claim

xooberon
03-18-2008, 01:40 PM
I saw every snap Ugoh played last year, and it was nothing of that sort.

Maybe you're thinking of Charlie Johnson, who played at LT because of Ugoh's injury, and is functionally inept at both pass-blocking and run-blocking.

no doubt johnson was worse but i saw ugoh a few times last season and he looked woeful, maybe not giving up sacks but he gives up pressure and hits seemingly at will. for people to even consider that he was on joe thomas' level is laughable imo

jetsfan0099
03-18-2008, 01:47 PM
LOL, keep talking out of your ass. Peters was a Pro-Bowler and Dockery lived up to the contract he got. So did Langston Walker. Brad Butler played surprisingly well in his first season at RG. Fowler is serviceable but can be upgraded. Peters is elite, Dockery is great, Walker is above average, Butler is slightly above average, Fowler is average.

You have to factor in that the Jets O-Line has never played together too. 2 new starters is a big change for an O-Line. I'd take the Bills line all day over the Jets. Without a consistent LT, Clemens won't be able to get comfortable in the pocket. 13.5 sacks is a lot to give up in one year.

That 13 sacks is BS, most weren't his fault. Walter Jones has been letting over over 10 sacks a season, he must stink also?? I think that stat is BS. Ferguson had a horrible LG next to him, that he had no trust in. Most of the sacks I can tell you came from Clarke, it may not show up on the stupid stat line, but from watching the games I can tell you Clarke got blown by almost every time. Brick just needs to be consistent the whole season, he played amazing for 7 games this year. Dominating Jason Taylor, Trent Cole, Osi, Aaron Schobel, and some other guys.

The only guy I would take on the Bills line is Peters. Langston Walker isn't special, hes a big terd.
When ever I watch the Bills against the Jets, they do a bunch of short passes and 3 step drop backs.

Larry121283
03-18-2008, 01:55 PM
Joe Thomas was elite from about week 3...he didnt allow any pressure from then on. IMO he was one of the best O-Linemen in the whole league last year.

And thats coming from a bias (against the browns) Steelers fan.

I don't think I ever said anything against Joe Thomas being anything other than elite, although, I do think he had some issues with the false starts.

Ugoh, however, was damn near flawless last year.

I have no idea who this guy above me is talking about, as a Jaguars fan, Ugoh was as good as any tackle as I saw last year, that includes Thomas.

btw - just for the sake of it, the left tackle for the Jets, while as talented as JT and TU, couldn't hold the jock of either...I think in half the season he allowed more sacks than TU and JT combined.

People are too quick to judge name over production...which is why undeserving lineman go to Hawaii every year.

DawgBone
03-18-2008, 03:17 PM
Joe Thomas > Tony Ugoh in everything that has to do with football.

Joe Thomas only gave up 1 sack all year last year and that was the first game of the year. NOT 4.5. That would mean since our OL only gave up 19 sacks all year, that JT averaged more sacks per game then the other 4 OL on the team. And since Shaffer gave up 8, I think that is impossible that Thomas gave up 4.5. It was allready reported on our web site that THomas only gave up 1 all year.

Sure Ugoh was a rookie also and will be good, but he isnt anywhere near the level Thomas is.

Ugoh also missed how many games? At least Thomas could stay on the field......FOR EVERY SNAP last year.


The announcers during the pro bowl (for what its worth) said Thomas was the best OLmen that day hands down.


"Two totally different types of players, but yes, in fact, Ugoh, despite missing time, was better than Thomas last year."

WHAT A JOKE!

Menardo75
03-18-2008, 03:54 PM
Has anyone even mentioned the Giants line as consideration for the best. Kinda hard to do what they did with an average o-line. Probably because no one has heard of them. They are a very good group though

Larry121283
03-18-2008, 04:09 PM
Joe Thomas > Tony Ugoh in everything that has to do with football.

Joe Thomas only gave up 1 sack all year last year and that was the first game of the year. NOT 4.5. That would mean since our OL only gave up 19 sacks all year, that JT averaged more sacks per game then the other 4 OL on the team. And since Shaffer gave up 8, I think that is impossible that Thomas gave up 4.5. It was allready reported on our web site that THomas only gave up 1 all year.

Sure Ugoh was a rookie also and will be good, but he isnt anywhere near the level Thomas is.

Ugoh also missed how many games? At least Thomas could stay on the field......FOR EVERY SNAP last year.


The announcers during the pro bowl (for what its worth) said Thomas was the best OLmen that day hands down.


"Two totally different types of players, but yes, in fact, Ugoh, despite missing time, was better than Thomas last year."

WHAT A JOKE!

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=8257&team=5

He gave up 4, sorry to hurt your feelings...

And, for the Walter Jones comment...yeah, he wasn't very good the year he gave up 10 sacks...at least not pass pro. That was also the year he lost Hutchinson by his side. Just like the year Ogden gave up 9, he was pretty bad that year too.

I love how people flip out whenever you say the slightest thing wrong about their perception of a player on their team.

Never said Thomas was bad, but people don't really recognize how good Tony Ugoh was last year.

BaLLiN
03-18-2008, 04:23 PM
Has anyone even mentioned the Giants line as consideration for the best. Kinda hard to do what they did with an average o-line. Probably because no one has heard of them. They are a very good group though

and we have sucky RBs as far as blocking. Diehl did alright, it was his first year in transition, it was alot about teamwork. Manning isnt real great at evading sacks and isnt that hard to take down, so the QB should be taken into consideration as well.

DawgBone
03-18-2008, 04:31 PM
http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=8257&team=5

He gave up 4, sorry to hurt your feelings...

And, for the Walter Jones comment...yeah, he wasn't very good the year he gave up 10 sacks...at least not pass pro. That was also the year he lost Hutchinson by his side. Just like the year Ogden gave up 9, he was pretty bad that year too.

I love how people flip out whenever you say the slightest thing wrong about their perception of a player on their team.

Never said Thomas was bad, but people don't really recognize how good Tony Ugoh was last year.

Ugoh is going to have to play more than 2/3 the season before anyone gives him his credit.

Thomas is also a year younger on a lesser offense.

Larry121283
03-18-2008, 04:34 PM
That is why the comments have been prefaced, when Ugoh played.

The disparity between Ugoh and Charlie Johnson was MASSIVE.

Ugoh played at a Tarik Glenn level...Charlie Johnson played like a backup at LT...

DawgBone
03-18-2008, 05:52 PM
Is that Mrs. Ugoh???

Larry121283
03-18-2008, 06:26 PM
Nope, hate the Colts...Jaguars fan...

however, I am starting to think you are Joe Thomas' fishing buddy and part time lover with the overreaction you had from saying that someone who had less penalties, less sacks allowed, and resulted in more rush yards per carry behind him was a better player..

logic kills the homer

DawgBone
03-18-2008, 06:29 PM
Nope, hate the Colts...Jaguars fan...

however, I am starting to think you are Joe Thomas' fishing buddy and part time lover with the overreaction you had from saying that someone who had less penalties, less sacks allowed, and resulted in more rush yards per carry behind him was a better player..

logic kills the homer

Didnt you say stats dont matter? I know who made the pro bowl and who didnt.....

This is what you wrote....
"Find a rookie who allowed only 1 sack while committing only 1 penalty all year on the left side like Ugoh, and you have yourself a cookie "

But you might as well said name me a tackle (in 11 games). Not "all year".

Larry121283
03-18-2008, 07:15 PM
LOL...find me one with a ratio like that, that saw significant action in 11 games...try 10...try 9, try 8, try 7...You can't find a starting tackle in the league, PERIOD with numbers like that from the spot...nevermind a rookie. And while the numbers aren't the be all and end all...they do give you a significant idea of what kind of player he is...

If you've ever played offensive line or any blocking position...coaches as you not to make mistakes, don't miss your block/assignment, and don't let your QB get hit. If you do all of those things...you are of the best.

Any player who allowed 1 sack in 11 games from the LT position is a stud, period. It gives you generally, a good idea of what kind of pass blocker he is.

Then you look at the numbers of rush yards behind the LT, that gives you an idea of what kind of run blocker he is (the "what if he had long runs" argument doesn't hold weight since the number stops at 10 yards per carry)...

Put them together with seeing a player that allowed his team to not miss a beat away from an All-Pro veteran tackle, and that tells me that Ugoh is not only good, but excellent. And last year, in the games he played, outplayed Joe Thomas.

I said stats don't matter when you also use your own two eyes to evaluate...more often than not, stats usually = what you see...

I won't continue the bickering, because you are just going to come back and say "Tony Ugoh didn't play a full season...so, he gets no credit" or something lame like that.

Remind me to avoid intelligent discussion with you in the future.

Rob S
03-18-2008, 07:28 PM
I think anyone who says the Jets line can be the best is underrating the chemistry aspect of the OL. No matter how amazing the players are, it will take time to gel.

DawgBone
03-18-2008, 07:33 PM
I think anyone who says the Jets line can be the best is underrating the chemistry aspect of the OL. No matter how amazing the players are, it will take time to gel.

I agree but.....

Joe Thomas was a rookie
Eric Steinbach was in his first year with the team
Hank Fraley was in his 2nd
Ryan Tucker had never played RG in his life
Kevin Shaffer was allways a LT before training camp and moved to RT

And they seemed to jell just fine. Hopefully it only gets better this year.

Rob S
03-18-2008, 07:37 PM
I agree but.....

Joe Thomas was a rookie
Eric Steinbach was in his first year with the team
Hank Fraley was in his 2nd
Ryan Tucker had never played RG in his life
Kevin Shaffer was allways a LT before training camp and moved to RT

And they seemed to jell just fine. Hopefully it only gets better this year.


very true, but that line is more the exception to the rule than the norm. I think that more speaks to the great ability of whoever the Browns OL coach is than to question the validity of an OL needing time to gel. Sometimes you just get lucky, I wouldnt expect the Jets to be so fortunate. Maybe they will be, and then you would have to move them up the rankings, but for now I dont think they can be put at the top.

DawgBone
03-18-2008, 07:45 PM
very true, but that line is more the exception to the rule than the norm. I think that more speaks to the great ability of whoever the Browns OL coach is than to question the validity of an OL needing time to gel. Sometimes you just get lucky, I wouldnt expect the Jets to be so fortunate. Maybe they will be, and then you would have to move them up the rankings, but for now I dont think they can be put at the top.

Funny you brought up our OL coach. He was previously the OL coach of the Texans for the main years where they gave up NFL record leading sack totals. When the Browns hired him many fans were angry (lack of knowledge?). This year was his first with the Browns and it apears he did very well. Poor Texans?

Rob S
03-18-2008, 08:31 PM
Funny you brought up our OL coach. He was previously the OL coach of the Texans for the main years where they gave up NFL record leading sack totals. When the Browns hired him many fans were angry (lack of knowledge?). This year was his first with the Browns and it apears he did very well. Poor Texans?

shocking what talent can do for a coach's reputation.....

luee
04-01-2008, 06:18 PM
Worst to first, I do not think so. Mangold is a top tier center but brick has aways to go at LOT. Woodie has little rubber on the tracks. Middle of the pack at best.

JT Jag
04-01-2008, 07:08 PM
Jacksonville's line is underrated.

Every starter from last year's outstanding unit returns, and Mo Williams is situated so he can play at RG again, where his play improved immensely over how he did at RT.

Khalif Barnes, solid and still has upside
Manuwai, the best offensive lineman in the NFL that you haven't heard of
Meester, who has quietly has been a top-5 center for several years now
Mo Williams, who played at a pro-bowl level inside last year
Tony Pashos, the next Jon Runyan.

Ravens1991
04-01-2008, 07:13 PM
Well Pashos must have improved dramatically because in Baltimore he sucked until his contract year when he was average.

ChezPower4
04-02-2008, 12:33 AM
1. New England
2. Dallas
3. Vikings
4. Green Bay
5. Colts

Or Moyal
04-02-2008, 08:33 AM
Homer alert, but I think I'd have to go with the Cowboys. Three pro bowlers and a pretty good Right Tackle in Colombo. Kosier isn't very good, but he doesn't kill you.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-02-2008, 09:21 AM
1. New England
2. Dallas
3. Vikings
4. Green Bay
5. Colts


I'd put us on the list... You don't win the superbowl against the 2nd team in sacks with an avg o-line.

Young Legend
04-02-2008, 10:27 AM
NO! Woody at RT and who ever is at RG..Horrible right side. Will Faneca help Brick out Yes but it will not make him live up to the hype he had coming out of college.

Faneca play fell off big time last year..

Mr. Stiller
04-02-2008, 02:47 PM
no doubt johnson was worse but i saw ugoh a few times last season and he looked woeful, maybe not giving up sacks but he gives up pressure and hits seemingly at will. for people to even consider that he was on joe thomas' level is laughable imo

And The first game of last season Joe Thomas was involved in giving up 3 sacks.

One of which Ryan Clark beat him one on one and another where James Farrior literally RAN HIM OVER.

Obviously Joe Thomas will never give up a pressure, and has 2x the push in the run game that Ugoh Has.

:rolleyes:

yourfavestoner
04-02-2008, 03:04 PM
Well Pashos must have improved dramatically because in Baltimore he sucked until his contract year when he was average.

He did. He played poorly the first few games, but over the second half of the season, he was amazing. He and Mo Williams were just road grading people.

CC.SD
04-02-2008, 03:43 PM
Thomas>Ugoh, unquestionably.

Not a lot of respect for the Chargers going on in this thread: McNeill, Dielman, and Hardwick are all pro bowlers. Goff is a veteran, and the real problem child of the group, Shane Olivea, got cut and his replacement Clary did very well.

Is it top 5? They had some breakdowns early last year and everyone seems to have written them off. The O-line getting their **** together is a main reason the Chargers turned their season around, kept Rivers upright, and collected another division championship and an appearance in the AFCCG.

Blocking for the rushing leader two years in a row ain't bad either, especially considering LT's historic production.

No disrespect, but I'd take this group over the Jets anyday. The Browns too.

katnip
04-03-2008, 04:42 PM
Vikings do, in my opinion.

keylime_5
04-03-2008, 05:05 PM
Considering we have Joe Thomas, Eric Steinbach, Hank Fraley, Ryan Tucker, and Kevin Shaffer starting with sick depth in Rex Hadnot, Seth McKinney, and Lennie Friedman, it is clear that the Browns line is great and even better than last year with Hadnot in the fold and Joe Thomas being a year more experienced after a pro bowl rookie season. Minnesota has a killer line, but the right side of their unit isn't that great and their depth isn't that great either compared to some lines. I think New England is still the best line after how dominant they were last year even though they did get beat by the Giants' front four in the big game.

xooberon
04-03-2008, 06:42 PM
And The first game of last season Joe Thomas was involved in giving up 3 sacks.

One of which Ryan Clark beat him one on one and another where James Farrior literally RAN HIM OVER.

Obviously Joe Thomas will never give up a pressure, and has 2x the push in the run game that Ugoh Has.

:rolleyes:

LOL you bring up thomas' first game but don't mention how ugoh got manhandled all day by will smith in his. :confused:

oh and i never said that thomas never gives up pressure only that he was the most impressive rookie tackle

keylime_5
04-03-2008, 06:48 PM
Thomas gave up 2 sacks his whole rookie year. The sacks in the Pittsburgh game were not his fault. Charlie Frye sucks. Joe was fine in his first game, Derek Anderson came in and no pressure at all.

OSUGiants17
04-03-2008, 06:58 PM
I am going to make a thread called "What team is the best at each position?" we will talk about what team is #1 @ QB, RB, FB, WR, TE, OLine, DLine, LB, CB, S, K, P.

PACKmanN
04-04-2008, 11:09 PM
1. New England
2. Dallas
3. Vikings
4. Green Bay
5. Colts

As of right now we should not be in the top 5, top 10 sure, but not at 4. Move the Vikings one down and the Cowboys one down then put the Giants at 2.

jsagan77
04-06-2008, 01:10 AM
The skins are aging but definately worth a discussion


Samuels Thomas Rabach Kendal Jansen

nobodyinparticular
04-06-2008, 01:42 AM
Browns do NOT have the best line but....

D'Brick < Thomas
Faneca > Steinbach, but by their play last year Steinbach wasnt far behind.
Mangold > Fraley
Woody < Tucker
whoever the RT was < Shaffer

not to mention I think the Browns have the very best depth on the OL in all of football.

I would take the left side of the Browns and Vikings over the Jets.

But why is this in the draft forumn?

I'll admit that I didn't see Steinbach a whole lot last year, but based on his play in Cinci and Faneca's play last year, I would place Steinbach over Faneca right now.

steelernation77
04-06-2008, 02:03 AM
I'll admit that I didn't see Steinbach a whole lot last year, but based on his play in Cinci and Faneca's play last year, I would place Steinbach over Faneca right now.

Faneca wasn't as good as normal but he is still very good. I think Sean Mahan's terrible play really hurt Faneca last year. He's had the benefit of playing with good centers for most of his career.

DawgBone
04-06-2008, 10:57 AM
Faneca wasn't as good as normal but he is still very good. I think Sean Mahan's terrible play really hurt Faneca last year. He's had the benefit of playing with good centers for most of his career.

So are you saying that great center play in the past has helped hide some of Fanecas bad play? I just think he wasnt as motivated this season compared to others. he clearly didnt want to be there. At the same time it was a huge contract year for him so you know he gave it his all for the money ball.

ChezPower4
04-06-2008, 02:13 PM
I'll admit that I didn't see Steinbach a whole lot last year, but based on his play in Cinci and Faneca's play last year, I would place Steinbach over Faneca right now.

Eric had a very good year last season but i do not think that he played as well a Faneca.

Dr. Gonzo
04-06-2008, 03:34 PM
D'Brick = McKinnie right now
Faneca < Hutchinson
Mangold < Birk
Woody < Herrera
RT = Cook

I don't think they have the Vikings beat at any O-Line position.

kmartin575
04-06-2008, 03:56 PM
D'Brick = McKinnie right now
Faneca < Hutchinson
Mangold < Birk
Woody < Herrera
RT = Cook

I don't think they have the Vikings beat at any O-Line position.

I was under the impression that Woody would play RT for the Jets, not RG.

DawgBone
04-06-2008, 09:03 PM
Eric had a very good year last season but i do not think that he played as well a Faneca.

Steinbach played great last year.

I remember watching a Steelers game with some of my Steeler friends and the anouncer said that Faneca wasnt even the best OL on the team last year and the rest of their OL wasnt very impressive.

JetsFanNick
04-07-2008, 12:03 PM
I was under the impression that Woody would play RT for the Jets, not RG.

Woody is playing RT, we are keeping Moore at RG...Woody played real good at the RT spot at the end of last year.