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View Full Version : Question for Scott on Kevin Smith


Iamcanadian
03-18-2008, 09:03 AM
Scott, you have Smith running a 4.60 at the combine but I heard he ran a 4.47 unofficial. Is 4.60 his real official time???

FA1
03-18-2008, 09:05 AM
I have 4.53 as Smith's official time

Freddy G
03-18-2008, 10:17 AM
I have the same question, i am positive i read somewhere (maybe even this site) that he ran sub 4.5, but you got him down with a 4.6.

Honestly though it isn't that big of a deal to me, i have seen the guy play both in person and on tv and he definitely plays faster than a 4.6. I wouldn't call him a home run hitter, but i think he has enough speed to turn the corner and get some solid 20+ yard runs...kind of like Willis McGahee speed or Steven Jackson speed (not sure if that is clear). Also, i think his agility maybe underrated a bit too much.

foozball
03-18-2008, 11:23 AM
he ran a 4.5something officially and his 2nd time was a 4.6something officially

FinNasty
03-18-2008, 11:35 AM
Ya, can we get the official times? Its been like a month... that information is usually out by now...

Scott Wright
03-18-2008, 11:51 AM
The number the NFL Network ran during their coverage was very "Unofficial". Like foozball said he ran a high 4.5 and a low 4.6 officially.

FinNasty
03-18-2008, 12:40 PM
The number the NFL Network ran during their coverage was very "Unofficial". Like foozball said he ran a high 4.5 and a low 4.6 officially.

Do you have the official numbers? 4.5 what? And 4.6 what?

Iamcanadian
03-18-2008, 03:10 PM
I have the same question, i am positive i read somewhere (maybe even this site) that he ran sub 4.5, but you got him down with a 4.6.

Honestly though it isn't that big of a deal to me, i have seen the guy play both in person and on tv and he definitely plays faster than a 4.6. I wouldn't call him a home run hitter, but i think he has enough speed to turn the corner and get some solid 20+ yard runs...kind of like Willis McGahee speed or Steven Jackson speed (not sure if that is clear). Also, i think his agility maybe underrated a bit too much.

It's pretty huge in fact. 4.60 RB's don't have the speed to turn the corner in the NFL. They can use their quickness, vision and cutting ability to run between the tackles but they are way too slow to run outside. It is the difference between a 1st or 2nd rounder and a 3rd and 4th rounder for Smith.

Txs for the confirmation Scott.

etk
03-18-2008, 05:07 PM
I don't care if Smith ran a 3.9....I've seen him quite a few times and his breakaway speed always seemed well below-average. I think Smith is overrated as a prospect.

FinNasty
03-18-2008, 07:56 PM
I don't care if Smith ran a 3.9....I've seen him quite a few times and his breakaway speed always seemed well below-average. I think Smith is overrated as a prospect.

Besides his speed... what else about his game dont you like?

What makes him overrated in your eye?

Bizwah
03-18-2008, 08:31 PM
Speed is one of the most overrated traits of a RB.

I remember Jimmy Johnson talking about Emmitt Smith. He said that Emmitt had 4.7 speed, but he kept making long runs on the film they watched of him.

Now, I haven't seen a lot of Kevin Smith, but from some highlights I have seen, he has his share of long runs.

etk
03-18-2008, 09:34 PM
Besides his speed... what else about his game dont you like?

What makes him overrated in your eye?

I think he's overrated in comparison to the rest of the RBs in the class. He's not very shifty or elusive, he has good feet but not like Forte, he runs fairly high, he doesn't have as strong of a build as you'd like, and he has the mileage issue from carrying the load. I understand he has impressive production and has found ways to break big runs even though he's not the best athlete, but to me he's a physical inside runner that isn't fast enough to break the big one or strong enough to consistently move the pile against bigger, stronger defenders. I don't like his build for a RB and I don't think he's a good enough athlete if you want to quantify it in one sentence.

FinNasty
03-18-2008, 11:21 PM
I think he's overrated in comparison to the rest of the RBs in the class. He's not very shifty or elusive, he has good feet but not like Forte, he runs fairly high, he doesn't have as strong of a build as you'd like, and he has the mileage issue from carrying the load. I understand he has impressive production and has found ways to break big runs even though he's not the best athlete, but to me he's a physical inside runner that isn't fast enough to break the big one or strong enough to consistently move the pile against bigger, stronger defenders. I don't like his build for a RB and I don't think he's a good enough athlete if you want to quantify it in one sentence.

You are off on that one bro. The guy's agility and cuts are one of his strengths...
http://nfldraft.rivals.com/video.asp?section=football&vidtype=college&vidid=32987

He does run higher, but when making contact, he gets low, and he has great leg drive to go with it. Plus, because of his agility, defenders rarely get clean hits on him... which is the main concern with players that run high.

He does need to add upper body strength. I agree with that. But he has frame for it, as it is hardly maxed out. He already added 5lbs between the season and the combine... and measured in at 217lbs. He can easily add 8 more pounds and get up to 225lbs with NFL trainers. They can bulk him up no problem.

And he is still a junior, so while he had a heavy carry season, he doesnt have that much milage on him. He didnt have that kind of work load his first 2 years.

However, he proved this season that he can handle that kind of workload... which only helped his stock.

Had he stayed his senior year, I would agree with you.


Kevin doesnt dominate defenses with things like speed(even though he has solid speed)... that doesnt always translate well to the next level. He dominates them with vision... which is the one aspect of a running back that translates better than anything else.

etk
03-18-2008, 11:30 PM
You are off on that one bro. The guy's agility and cuts are one of his strengths...
http://nfldraft.rivals.com/video.asp?section=football&vidtype=college&vidid=32987

He does run higher, but when making contact, he gets low, and he has great leg drive to go with it. Plus, because of his agility, defenders rarely get clean hits on him... which is the main concern with players that run high.

He does need to add upper body strength. I agree with that. But he has frame for it, as it is hardly maxed out. He already added 5lbs between the season and the combine... and measured in at 217lbs. He can easily add 8 more pounds and get up to 225lbs with NFL trainers. They can bulk him up no problem.

And he is still a junior, so while he had a heavy carry season, he doesnt have that much milage on him. He didnt have that kind of work load his first 2 years.

However, he proved this season that he can handle that kind of workload... which only helped his stock.

Had he stayed his senior year, I would agree with you.


Kevin doesnt dominate defenses with things like speed(even though he has solid speed)... that doesnt always translate well to the next level. He dominates them with vision... which is the one aspect of a running back that translates better than anything else.

I said he's not very shifty or elusive. From what I've seen he doesn't have that ability in the open field, but he does make good lateral cuts in the hole.

I haven't seen the "lowness on contact" but I'll give you the leg drive.

Agree that he can bulk up, but he hasn't yet.

Good points, but as you said it Kevin is an inside runner and I like my inside runners to be stockier. That's the determining factor in why I don't like him, but other teams will. He has proven that he can run inside but I question how consistent he will be at the next level.

FinNasty
03-18-2008, 11:55 PM
I said he's not very shifty or elusive. From what I've seen he doesn't have that ability in the open field, but he does make good lateral cuts in the hole.

I haven't seen the "lowness on contact" but I'll give you the leg drive.

Agree that he can bulk up, but he hasn't yet.

Good points, but as you said it Kevin is an inside runner and I like my inside runners to be stockier. That's the determining factor in why I don't like him, but other teams will. He has proven that he can run inside but I question how consistent he will be at the next level.

Well then I encourage you to watch that video I posted. If you watch that video and still think he cant cut... then we arnt ever going to agree on him... lol

And like my RBs thicker too. I love Stewart's body as a RB. But KSmith will get there with an NFL trainer and an offseason. It wont be hard. I think passing on a player due to something that is so easy to correct is crazy. If it was somthing you couldnt fix, like knee injury history... thats cool. But any NFL team will bulk him up quickly. He doesnt need to add too much weight. 8-13lbs puts him at 225-230lbs...

Iamcanadian
03-19-2008, 12:29 AM
Speed is one of the most overrated traits of a RB.

I remember Jimmy Johnson talking about Emmitt Smith. He said that Emmitt had 4.7 speed, but he kept making long runs on the film they watched of him.

Now, I haven't seen a lot of Kevin Smith, but from some highlights I have seen, he has his share of long runs.

Well, actually Emmitt Smith ran a 4.60, but having followed the draft for 55 years, I've only seen 1 other NFL starting RB's who ran as slow as Emmitt so saying 40 times are overrated is just not born out by the facts and places Smith in the catagory as a high longshot to succeed.
As for Emmitt, nobody knows his short shuttle time or his cone time which both could have been outstanding. Jimmy Johnson also said the draft is a crapshoot at best and the best way to have success at the draft is to have as many picks in each round as you can secure, that way your bound to succeed sometimes. I believe he had more than 1 first rounder the year he drafted Smith.

FinNasty
03-19-2008, 08:29 AM
Well, actually Emmitt Smith ran a 4.60, but having followed the draft for 55 years, I've only seen 1 other NFL starting RB's who ran as slow as Emmitt so saying 40 times are overrated is just not born out by the facts and places Smith in the catagory as a high longshot to succeed.
As for Emmitt, nobody knows his short shuttle time or his cone time which both could have been outstanding. Jimmy Johnson also said the draft is a crapshoot at best and the best way to have success at the draft is to have as many picks in each round as you can secure, that way your bound to succeed sometimes. I believe he had more than 1 first rounder the year he drafted Smith.

Smith is faster than a 4.6... you dont have to worry about that.

He isnt a burner, but he has solid speed. He looks like he is going slower b/c of his longer strides... but the guy can move. Especially short area quickness... which IMO, is much more important than top end speed anyway...

etk
03-19-2008, 02:18 PM
Well then I encourage you to watch that video I posted. If you watch that video and still think he cant cut... then we arnt ever going to agree on him... lol

And like my RBs thicker too. I love Stewart's body as a RB. But KSmith will get there with an NFL trainer and an offseason. It wont be hard. I think passing on a player due to something that is so easy to correct is crazy. If it was somthing you couldnt fix, like knee injury history... thats cool. But any NFL team will bulk him up quickly. He doesnt need to add too much weight. 8-13lbs puts him at 225-230lbs...

I'd like him a lot if my trainer told me we could get him up to 225+ (I believe he can), but would I like him over Forte or Choice? No. In a normal draft Smith would be one of my favorite backs but in this draft it's very easy for me to be picky

I will watch the video, but then again I saw his whole Tulsa game where he shredded their D and still wasn't entirely impressed.

JT Jag
03-19-2008, 07:03 PM
Technique is twice as important as speed when it comes to a runningback.

It doesn't matter how fast a 'back is he can't consistantly find the hole and produce consistant yardage. I mean, see Reggie Bush.

Kevin Smith has great vision and his a very consistant 'back. I take that every time over a guy who runs a 4.2 but is a huge project.

(see Chris Johnson).