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View Full Version : Lb and DT for the pick #46


swordman
03-18-2008, 08:58 PM
Hi just a question

I suppose that if falls to them the bengals will draft Ellis
If not they will draft Rivers
It seems logical to me that their first two round selections will be DT-LB or LB-DT

So my question is which LB or DT do you think would be good picks at 46??



P.S. : If mods think this topic is more suited for team discussion feel free to move it but I am sure that there is some non-Bengals fan on this forum who will have the pleasure to answer me

keylime_5
03-18-2008, 09:12 PM
My mock has had Sedrick Ellis and Erin Henderson to Cincy for at least 2 months now. Just seems so perfect. I think Scott's mock had those picks too before, not sure how long though.

swordman
03-18-2008, 09:17 PM
yeah those are the same pick as scott
what are the alternatives to henderson as a Lb in the secound?? because scott put an injury concern on him and I think that may scare the bengals front office because injury is a concern on our defense

ThePudge
03-18-2008, 09:17 PM
Hi just a question

I suppose that if falls to them the bengals will draft Ellis
If not they will draft Rivers
It seems logical to me that their first two round selections will be DT-LB or LB-DT

So my question is which LB or DT do you think would be good picks at 46??



P.S. : If mods think this topic is more suited for team discussion feel free to move it but I am sure that there is some non-Bengals fan on this forum who will have the pleasure to answer me

I'm a Bengals fan, so I can kind of help you out here. Yes, if Sedrick Ellis or Glenn Dorsey is there at #9, it'd be a no-brainer to take him. Now, on the very real possibility that neither is available, I believe it is highly unlikely that we draft Keith Rivers.

First, Rivers at #9 is just not a good pick from a value standpoint. A Top 10 LB should have some special quality and Rivers doesn't really have that. He's a very solid overall prospect, but a Top 10 pick would be a bit too high for a man who may have somewhat limited upside. Second, the Bengals have set up their LB situation this offseason in a patchy way.

WLB - Dhani Jones MLB - Ahmad Brooks SLB - Rashad Jeanty

They have added Daryl Blackstock and Brandon Johnson for depth at OLB where they also have Roy Manning, Eric Henderson, Jim Maxwell and David Pollack. Odell Thurman and Anthony Schlegel are backing up Brooks at MLB.

This is, by NO means, a strong LB core. However, it's a patchwork group which tells us one thing. They think they'll be fine for this year, and are unlikely to target one with their first two picks in the draft. A player like Gary Guyton, Ezra Butler, or Stanford Keglar is more likely in the 3rd-4th Round.

In my view, the team plans to add a DT early. If not Ellis or Dorsey, the team has looked a good deal into Texas A&M DT Red Bryant and may also go with a player like Dre Moore, Trevor Laws, Pat Sims, or Ahtyba Rubin (in the 2nd-3rd) or perhaps Frank Okam.

Now, you may be wondering to yourself: If not Ellis/Dorsey or Rivers in the first, then who? I can't say for sure obviously, but I do know the Bengals sent Bob Bratkowski (OC) to Illinois' Pro Day to watch Rashard Mendenhall and I know the Bengals have expressed interest in OT's such as Ryan Clady, Chris Williams, Jeff Otah, and Gosder Cherilus (2nd Round prospect.) I also know their DB coaches were at USF's pro day looking at Mike Jenkins. The team has talked to RB's Matt Forte and Chris Johnson as well, two second round possibilities. This draft is big for the Bengals, and it's wide open.

Don't make assumptions that the Bengals will use their first and second round picks both on defense, it'll come back to bite you.

ThePudge
03-18-2008, 09:22 PM
yeah those are the same pick as scott
what are the alternatives to henderson as a Lb in the secound?? because scott put an injury concern on him and I think that may scare the bengals front office because injury is a concern on our defense

I don't think any really fit with the Bengals, but a few of note are Tavares Gooden from Miami and Phillip Wheeler of Georgia Tech. As I said though, I think the Bengals go LB in the 3rd or later, hoping to get lucky with a player such as Keglar, Guyton, or Butler. Big, high upside guys, the type Zimmer and Fitzgerald favor.... Remember Fitzgerald played a big part in developing those big, athletic Ravens LB's (Adalius Thomas, Bart Scott, Jarrett Johnson, etc.). Keep an eye on Quentin Groves though, the Bengals had some major personnel at Auburn's Pro Day and Groves may be the type of big, athletic LB prospect that the Bengals target early. A real sleeper at #9.

swordman
03-18-2008, 09:37 PM
WOW!

thanks that's a lot of info to process

Don't make assumptions that the Bengals will use their first and second round picks both on defense, it'll come back to bite you.




True it bite me last year...Nothing against Irons but let's say I was surprised....

They think they'll be fine for this year, and are unlikely to target one with their first two picks in the draft.

Damn you may be right but that would be a stupid way to think. they definitely need help there if not DT then where? our lb s**ks. our defensive backfield is young and they won't adress it in the draft is anything they need experience not another youngster who will need time to grow

I don't bite the OL options with the money they spend on tackles(Willie and levi contract are huge and they franchised andrews) this year it seems unlikely that they spend top 10 money on another one
I don't think Rb either because of Irons.
If we don't get Ellis (or dorsey...) I obviously would love for us to trade down but I don't see it happening because it seems everybody wants to and nobody wants to trade up?

Do you think it is possible for us to trade up to be sure to grab Ellis/Dorsey although it doesn't seem to be the philosophy of the benglas front office

Groves seems like a reach at #9 but hey if we can't trade down....he has top10 upside

ThePudge
03-18-2008, 09:54 PM
WOW!

thanks that's a lot of info to process

True it bite me last year...Nothing against Irons but let's say I was surprised....

Damn you may be right but that would be a stupid way to think. they definitely need help there if not DT then where? our lb s**ks. our defensive backfield is young and they won't adress it in the draft is anything they need experience not another youngster who will need time to grow

I don't bite the OL options with the money they spend on tackles(Willie and levi contract are huge and they franchised andrews) this year it seems unlikely that they spend top 10 money on another one
I don't think Rb either because of Irons.
If we don't get Ellis (or dorsey...) I obviously would love for us to trade down but I don't see it happening because it seems everybody wants to and nobody wants to trade up?

Do you think it is possible for us to trade up to be sure to grab Ellis/Dorsey although it doesn't seem to be the philosophy of the benglas front office

Groves seems like a reach at #9 but hey if we can't trade down....

Yea, I know it sounds bad but I think the odds the Bengals go DT/LB in the first two rounds are the same as the odds of them going RB/WR. Now, I don't think they'll do either, but don't get your hopes up. Whitworth and Irons are two curveball examples of the Bengals 2nd Round tendencies.

Groves would absolutely be a reach, but that's one thing the Bengals aren't afraid to do. If Dorsey and Ellis are both gone I wouldn't put it past them. Groves does have tremendous upside and is just the type of big, athletic LB that Zimmer's system calls for. The value isn't there but Groves is a picture perfect fit...

As for the OL pick. I doubt it as well, I think a lot of things would have to break down. However, if a player like Cherilus is there in the 2nd I'd take him, groom him at RT. This way the line could look like this three years down the line...

LT - Levi Jones LG - Stacy Andrews C - Eric Ghaiciuc RG - Andrew Whitworth RT - Gosder Cherilus. If in the first round, three years form now we could be looking at. LT-Clady/Chris Williams LG-Whitworth C-Ghaiciuc RG-Williams RT-Andrews. Either way we're set. (To tell you the truth, I didn't understand why the Bengals were scouting big time OL until I wrote it out...actually would make sense). I'll tell you what, I think an OL in the first four rounds is as much a guarantee in the first four rounds as any position.

At RB, we were a mess last year. The team is not sure about Irons/Perry's future, Rudi is getting to the end of the line, and Kenny Watson, while a solid #3 option doesn't have much upside. Matt Forte is big, athletic, was very productive this past year. He reminds me of Corey Dillon without the baggage. I think Irons was the replacement for Perry/Watson and likewise I think Forte would be the replacement for Rudi. Yes, I do believe we will move further to a two-back system. Jones/Barber, Jones-Drew/Taylor, Bush/McAllister, Irons/Forte. I wouldn't mind that one bit, not with how little help our run game provided last year.

I have to agree with the LB situation, we desperately need a difference maker, a leader, a playmaker. That guy may be Brooks, he has that upside and fits the system. Just look at the Ravens though, I think we'll follow that style and wait on LB and try to develop one behind our patchwork starters for now...It makes sense.

swordman
03-18-2008, 10:10 PM
Well I am not sure I agree with everything you said but It is always nice to have different point of views At least now I have a better view of what to expect from the bengals....

Mr. Stiller
03-19-2008, 12:12 AM
I think Cincy should do everything to lock Up Trevor Laws. The kid is just a player.

I think instead of Ellis in their scheme, they might be better to go WLB, DE early and grab Laws at the top of 2.

Getting a DE, FS (Terrell Thomas), WLB in 3 (Whichever they didn't get.

ThePudge
03-19-2008, 12:34 AM
I think Cincy should do everything to lock Up Trevor Laws. The kid is just a player.

I think instead of Ellis in their scheme, they might be better to go WLB, DE early and grab Laws at the top of 2.

Getting a DE, FS (Terrell Thomas), WLB in 3 (Whichever they didn't get.

DE - Not much of a need in terms of a starter, though if Derrick Harvey is there at 9th Overall he'd be extremely tempting as Marvin Lewis & Co. are thought to love him. We could afford to add some depth though behind Geathers and Odom. Perhaps a pass rusher such as Jeremy Thompson in the 3rd or Shawn Crable/Bruce Davis in the 4th as a 3rd Down rush end.

FS - Covered. Last year's 4th Round pick Marvin White is expected to inherit the reins this year and I highly doubt the Bengals will look there early. Ethan Kilmer returns as a backup.

WLB - We could use a playmaker at LB, but the team looks satisfied with Dhani Jones at least for the upcoming year. As I said earlier, I believe we just basically threw together a group this year so that we could take a WLB in the 3rd/4th this year such as Stanford Keglar, Gary Guyton, or Ezra Butler. These guys are the big, athletic type of LB's Zimmer and Fitzgerald are looking for, right around the area Fitzgerald usually gets his LB's from. If we go LB early it's Groves, a superior fit and outstanding pass rusher, over Rivers.

keylime_5
03-19-2008, 08:37 AM
I think Dan Connor might actually be a possibility, but they would probably have to trade up a little bit to the top 10 picks in the 2nd to get him. Jerod Mayo too, but he I think will go before Connor even.

iloxygenil
03-19-2008, 10:48 AM
I think that the Bengals have an incredible offense built, but what happens if they decide to move Chad? Then they need to address that, I know that they have depth at WR, but you don't want to turn a strength into a weakness. So they'd have to keep that in mind there, I don't see that happening but there may be a team (especially in a very weak WR class) that decides they'll spend a couple picks on him.

ThePudge
03-19-2008, 10:55 AM
I think Dan Connor might actually be a possibility, but they would probably have to trade up a little bit to the top 10 picks in the 2nd to get him. Jerod Mayo too, but he I think will go before Connor even.

Naa, Connor not in the mold Zimmer/Fitzgerald are looking for. He's a good player, but he lacks the elite athleticism and bulk that is typical of a Zimmer/Fitzgerald LB. I don't think the Bengals will trade up for anything, especially a player who does not fit their system. Mayo is a possibility, but he's looking like a Top 25 pick these days.

ThePudge
03-19-2008, 10:57 AM
I think that the Bengals have an incredible offense built, but what happens if they decide to move Chad? Then they need to address that, I know that they have depth at WR, but you don't want to turn a strength into a weakness. So they'd have to keep that in mind there, I don't see that happening but there may be a team (especially in a very weak WR class) that decides they'll spend a couple picks on him.

I'd be surprised if the Bengals didn't take one WR by the 4th Round. I think it'd have to be the right guy and the right value, but I can definitely see the Bengals prepare for Chad not playing. Arman Shields is an intruiging prospect from Richmond who could get a look in the 4th.

Solomon
03-19-2008, 01:20 PM
I have a feeling that the Bengals might go offense with both of their first two picks. Maybe Rashard Mendenhall (or Macfadden if he drops on D Day) in the first and perhaps someone like Martellus Bennett in the second. They might wait until the third to grab a LB like Philip Wheeler.

Now if Indy doesn't match the offer sheet that the Bengals just offered Ben Utecht, then TE obviously becomes less of a need and the Bengals have a bit more flexibility. In that scenario they could maybe grab Dre Moore in the second and Wheeler in the third. Trevor Laws, Red Bryant and Marcus Harrison are also viable canidates at DT but the last two probably won't provide the pass rush that the Bengals need in the interior of their line. Safety is another area which the Bengals need help in and I could see Marvin Lewis taking a safety relatively high in the draft if he falls in love with one. Tyrell Johnson and Thomas Decoud seem like the kind of players he would love to grab.