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Nalej
03-21-2008, 09:12 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3305060

Later Friday, Arora told ESPN's Ed Werder that it's his understanding the Cowboys, the New England Patriots and the Detroit Lions are interested in Jones.

His agent wants him to go to a team with a winning tradition,
good mentors and all that other yada yada.

I agree that we do have a way of curing cancer within the clubhouse...
... but are we pushin our luck with this one? (If it happens, that is)
I like the physical tools and skills he can bring...
but the rust from the year off and the off-field drama just isn't worth it to me.


What are your thoughts on this?

regoob2
03-21-2008, 09:15 PM
He would be rusty early but come playoff time he could be back to stud mode.

Mr. Myogi
03-22-2008, 04:54 PM
I think he would be a good asset to the organization as would the organization be a great asset to him.
I think this is what he needs!

Bostonsportlova
03-23-2008, 08:07 PM
Corey Dillion. Randy Moss. etc.
Why not Pacman

Hes a good player and surround him with veterns like Teddy Junoir Brady etc they will keep him in control.

proshoota25
03-24-2008, 03:05 PM
pacman would fill a need in a huge way. i really hope something gets done. i think pacman would turn his life around if he went here. remember, winning is the cure to everything haha

Don Vito
03-24-2008, 03:47 PM
Well we really need help at corner, and I think Pacman would be a great addition. He hasn't played in a while but he is an elite talent who could really ease the loss of Asante if he comes ready to play.

Nalej
03-26-2008, 05:57 PM
I hear that. Now I'm really hoping he doens't go to the cowboys.
If he returns kicks for us as well... it'd give Dwight a break so he can
focus on just being a beast at receiver.

Winning cures everything--- ain't that the truth

luckyjackaubrey
03-26-2008, 06:52 PM
He is an ass and so are any of you who want him on this team. Can we try to get back to being a class organization ? We tried it the other way last year, and if you all did not learn or REMEMBER the one thing that got you 3 super bowl championships was hunger and determination. You are not going to see our team get back there by being the most talented. Only by being the most determined and willing will that happen.

I did not want to see Randy Moss on this team. He did not bring us a championship because that is not what he does. He did make us the most prolific offense in history and just how does that feel to wrap your arms around today ? Pac man is fool and I would rather pay to see what BB can do with another 4th round pick than see that prick in a Patriot's uniform.

proshoota25
03-26-2008, 11:56 PM
He is an ass and so are any of you who want him on this team. Can we try to get back to being a class organization ? We tried it the other way last year, and if you all did not learn or REMEMBER the one thing that got you 3 super bowl championships was hunger and determination. You are not going to see our team get back there by being the most talented. Only by being the most determined and willing will that happen.

I did not want to see Randy Moss on this team. He did not bring us a championship because that is not what he does. He did make us the most prolific offense in history and just how does that feel to wrap your arms around today ? Pac man is fool and I would rather pay to see what BB can do with another 4th round pick than see that prick in a Patriot's uniform.

dude you are rediculous. it wasnt randy moss' fault that we didnt win the super bowl. it was our defense that gave up that miracle play, and dropped two interceptions on that final drive. moss came up with the huge go ahead TD with like three minutes left. pacman would greatly improve our secondary, and you are a fool if you dont see the fact that it would improve our chances of winning a superbowl. look at the malcontents that came to the pats, corey dillon, randy moss.... i think they worked our pretty well.

Billingsley26
03-27-2008, 12:41 AM
He is an ass and so are any of you who want him on this team. Can we try to get back to being a class organization ? We tried it the other way last year, and if you all did not learn or REMEMBER the one thing that got you 3 super bowl championships was hunger and determination. You are not going to see our team get back there by being the most talented. Only by being the most determined and willing will that happen.

I did not want to see Randy Moss on this team. He did not bring us a championship because that is not what he does. He did make us the most prolific offense in history and just how does that feel to wrap your arms around today ? Pac man is fool and I would rather pay to see what BB can do with another 4th round pick than see that prick in a Patriot's uniform.

Anyone who disagrees with this is rediculous. Seriously, remember the years when we won with JR Redmond at RB? Jermaine Wiggins at TE? Troy Brown and David Patten at WR? A young unproven Tom Brady at QB? That was hunger, will, hard work and determination. That was what won us those SuperBowls.

Man, you are so right about this. I have no rep to give you or I would definately give it you on the spot. I was the same way with NE trading for Randy Moss. I would hate to see Pacman here.

Remember the days when we won the Superbowl with Hank Poteat, Eartwind Moreland, a rookie in Ellis Hobbs, an unproven Asante Samuel and Troy Brown playing DB? Yeah, that is what the Patriots are about. Not assholes who we can "supposedly" fix into character guys.

RollingMoss
03-27-2008, 10:13 PM
Hahahahaha, holy BALLS, you guys "were the same with Randy Moss"? The Dude who received an NFL record 23 touchdowns? Yeah...that's.....that's a real Sane thing to say....a Very Sane thing to say.

Question: Did Moss drop that pick? Was Moss the ref who didn't call that hold? Did Moss forget to defend the ball on Tyree? Is Moss really Ellis Hobbs, so it was Moss on Burress there? Or was Moss just the guy who caught 4 passes and the TD on the go-ahead drive before the Genius Belicheck messed up and that hole-infested defense finally gave way?

Rebut that, please.

Pac-Man would help the Pats at corner and punt returner (I didn't see Welker really do much there this year) and the Pats have proven their ability to handle headcases (Harrison, Dillon, and Moss). Obviously if the price is too high you go Meh and pass.

But if he can be had for a low-price, signed for low-cost, why not take the risk when the potential reward is so high?

Billingsley26
03-27-2008, 10:23 PM
Hahahahaha, holy BALLS, you guys "were the same with Randy Moss"? The Dude who received an NFL record 23 touchdowns? Yeah...that's.....that's a real Sane thing to say....a Very Sane thing to say.

Question: Did Moss drop that pick? Was Moss the ref who didn't call that hold? Did Moss forget to defend the ball on Tyree? Is Moss really Ellis Hobbs, so it was Moss on Burress there? Or was Moss just the guy who caught 4 passes and the TD on the go-ahead drive before the Genius Belicheck messed up and that hole-infested defense finally gave way?

Rebut that, please.

Pac-Man would help the Pats at corner and punt returner (I didn't see Welker really do much there this year) and the Pats have proven their ability to handle headcases (Harrison, Dillon, and Moss). Obviously if the price is too high you go Meh and pass.

But if he can be had for a low-price, signed for low-cost, why not take the risk when the potential reward is so high?

Rebutting this is very easy.

Re-read what we wrote. Did we anywhere say that it was Moss' fault? Did I ever put the loss on Moss? If you opened your eyes and read what I wrote you wouldnt need to write stupid things. I said that I was weary when Moss was traded here. I wasnt a fan of the deal when it happened. Obviously it worked out for the better since then, and have I blamed anyone idividual for the loss? Please, read things before you speak. You make yourself look stupid.

Secondly, I would like to add that Harrison, Dillon and Moss were different "headcases" than Pacman. Moss, Harrison and Dillon weren't repeatedly going to strip joints after they had been on probation and been told countless times not to be associated with them. Pacman obviously has a mental problem or some sort of problem in which he doesnt comprehend. In fact, it seems that you are along those lines as well.

RollingMoss
03-27-2008, 10:41 PM
Yes....I'm the one who looks stupid now....

Anyway, I was responding to a composite of you two posters there. That you were "leary" of the trade isn't something I'd be trumping around - that's what I was laughing at. And - as you said, hey, we can agree on something - comparing Moss to Pac-Man is quite, quite dumb.

The other poster - which is really who those questions were directed to - said "he didn't bring us a championship". My questions were mainly directed to him, not you. I respect that you wanted to defend him as vigorously as you did though. Nice, uh, insults?

You're "rebutting" wasn't much, either. He has a "mental problem"? How so? Does Jared Allen have a mental problem? Leonard Little? I'd say so (much worse than PacMan, by the way) - but they're both gainfully employed right now. Yes, he's had repeated and unexcusable run-ins with the law - but last I checked, the NFL doesn't really care about that as long as they can use you, and the Pats could use PacMan. And, to borrow cliches, Winning and Changes of Scenary Cure All.

Repeatedly going to strip joints isn't illegal, by the way. In fact, it's good entertainment. I suggest you go to one soon, loosen ya up.

Now - as I said - if Pac-Man can be had cheap, I think it's something the Pats should do, considering their needs. If it's more expensive, like a 4th and not a no-risk contract, I think they should pass. Is that "mental" thing to think?

luckyjackaubrey
03-28-2008, 07:12 AM
Son, you just need to brighten your bulb al little. My issues are not with Pacman Jones as a football player. My issues are related to the dynamic of building a team. Character and determination can overcome superior talent, and it is often more entertaining to see that happen.

The Giants victory over the Patriots was very reminiscent to the Pats beating the Rams back in '01.

No where did I bash Moss. He brought a lot to the team, but he was a huge change in what kind of players we brought in here to be a part of this team. I am sure the thought process was that a core of character guys still existed. It is not so much challenging Moss lack of character as it is aknowledging that the mix of guys was always special here before, lots of lunchpail type players that needed to work a little harder, needed to have a chip on their shoulder, needed to buy into a team first mentality in order to succeed.

I can't disagree that Pacman Jones on paper makes our corner situation a great deal better. I just don't live my life on paper. I have said this many times before, WInning is great, but how you play the whole season, every year means something to me too. I have watched every game this team has played since 1976 and winning has not been theover ridding result all those years. Class and character are important threads to the fabric of why I am a fan snf ehy you can take Pacman somewhere else.

There was no comparison of Moss to Jones in my last post. I will sday here that there would be similarities if Jones was aquired now. That recipe of building a team is delicate, you do need talent, you do need heart, leaders, followers, God fearing men , and hellraisers. It is my point that our past recipes for success included far more of the hungry, unproven guy willing to listen to the plan, than the ultra talented, sometimes unfocused prima donna.

RollingMoss
03-28-2008, 07:00 PM
.....Son?..... presumptious....and I love that I need to brighten my bulb "al ittle bit". That, Dad, was a good one.

The Giants victory was a reminder that Belicheck overlooked how Old his D had gotten, Harrison forget how to bat down a ball, and Ellis Hobbs played like Ellis Hobbs. Nothing more, nothing less. You play that game 10 more times, the Pats probably win 9.

You words imply that the Pats weren't hungry and didn't want it as much - I would laugh at that too, considering they were playing for More than just a Super Bowl. They definately wanted it - the D played great for 3 qtrs and the O did what it had to. The D just bent too much for the first time all year, and considering the age of the players and the pressure, it's not that surprising in hindsight.

And since the D bent - and mainly, the secondary - I'd think wanting to improve that would be high on the offseason list. Getting a lowrisk highreward guy like PacMan - who could be cut if he got out of line - would seem like a good idea.

You didn't bash Moss? You said you didn't want him and that he didn't bring a Ring because that's "not what he does" - I'd call that a bash and I laughed at that - Without Moss, the Pats weren't 18-0, they probably weren't even in the Super Bowl, and ****, maybe not even in the AFCChampionship game. But yeah, you didn't want Moss then, and admitted to it after his record-setting season. I laugh.

You didn't compare Jones to Moss...Then why bring up Moss when talking about Jones? Why bring him up? Sure, you didn't specifically compare the two, but....come on. You did, buddy - oh, sorry - Dad.

And it's good you don't live your life on paper, but in the NFL, talent rules all - even to Belicheck (Meriweather, Harrison, Dillon, etc.). Where's Corey Dillon fit into your nice paperless, character life, by the way? Anyway though, talent rules all. Deal with it.

Now - ONCE AGAIN - if the pricetag for PacMan is too high - and it's lookin' like it might be - then yes, forget about it. But, if you could add him to that team - a team with Brady, Bruschi, Harrison, and Belicheck to keep him in line and a coldhearted Pioli ready to cut him if he screws up - that would seem like a good idea.

Also: You're "Hungry" analogy dies in the water too. I'd think PacMan would be VERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYYYYYY hungry and anxious to prove everyone wrong about him - on and off the field.

And, after all, isn't a hungry player the best player, Dad?

pwnage.

proshoota25
03-29-2008, 12:44 AM
lmao owneedddd

bearsfan_51
03-29-2008, 12:56 AM
Some of you need to calm down and stop acting like children. And don't call people son, there is nothing in the world that pisses me off more. You're just asking for an argument. Consider this a warning for all.

Billingsley26
04-02-2008, 12:25 AM
.....Son?..... presumptious....and I love that I need to brighten my bulb "al ittle bit". That, Dad, was a good one.

The Giants victory was a reminder that Belicheck overlooked how Old his D had gotten, Harrison forget how to bat down a ball, and Ellis Hobbs played like Ellis Hobbs. Nothing more, nothing less. You play that game 10 more times, the Pats probably win 9.

You words imply that the Pats weren't hungry and didn't want it as much - I would laugh at that too, considering they were playing for More than just a Super Bowl. They definately wanted it - the D played great for 3 qtrs and the O did what it had to. The D just bent too much for the first time all year, and considering the age of the players and the pressure, it's not that surprising in hindsight.

And since the D bent - and mainly, the secondary - I'd think wanting to improve that would be high on the offseason list. Getting a lowrisk highreward guy like PacMan - who could be cut if he got out of line - would seem like a good idea.

You didn't bash Moss? You said you didn't want him and that he didn't bring a Ring because that's "not what he does" - I'd call that a bash and I laughed at that - Without Moss, the Pats weren't 18-0, they probably weren't even in the Super Bowl, and ****, maybe not even in the AFCChampionship game. But yeah, you didn't want Moss then, and admitted to it after his record-setting season. I laugh.

You didn't compare Jones to Moss...Then why bring up Moss when talking about Jones? Why bring him up? Sure, you didn't specifically compare the two, but....come on. You did, buddy - oh, sorry - Dad.

And it's good you don't live your life on paper, but in the NFL, talent rules all - even to Belicheck (Meriweather, Harrison, Dillon, etc.). Where's Corey Dillon fit into your nice paperless, character life, by the way? Anyway though, talent rules all. Deal with it.

Now - ONCE AGAIN - if the pricetag for PacMan is too high - and it's lookin' like it might be - then yes, forget about it. But, if you could add him to that team - a team with Brady, Bruschi, Harrison, and Belicheck to keep him in line and a coldhearted Pioli ready to cut him if he screws up - that would seem like a good idea.

Also: You're "Hungry" analogy dies in the water too. I'd think PacMan would be VERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYYYYYY hungry and anxious to prove everyone wrong about him - on and off the field.

And, after all, isn't a hungry player the best player, Dad?

pwnage.

1. I dont udnerstand your first point. BB overlooked his old D and everything you named happened...doesnt make sense. We held them to 17 points. 7 of those points came with 35 seconds left. Explain to me again how letting up 10 points in 59 minutes and 17 points in the Superbowl is BB overlooking his "old" D, especially when this is a Giants offense that is capable of putting up points.

2. The D didnt "bend" too much. There were 2 events that happened. David Tyree mad the best catch in the history of the NFL. Theres nothing you can do at that time. Look back at it, Rodney was all over this guy and his grandma. It was a hell of a catch. I dont know how he made it, but it was amazing. Second, Ellis Hobbs was supposedly playing with a torn muscle in his groin and it hurt his play. Am I using it as an excuse? No. Did he play bad the rest of the game? No. He had one slip, and a very inoprtune time. The old saying holds true for the Giants. "You gotta be lucky to be good and good to be lucky".

3. I understand exactly what luckeyjackaubrey is saying about Moss. He didnt bash Moss. He was speaking about this time last year, before Moss was ever a Patriot, he said he wouldnt want to see him in NE. As for what you think to be bashing goes...Moss tore it up in the regular season. Where was that rediculous production in the SuperBowl? Im not going to nag on him because he caught a TD in the final 3 minutes, but there were many chances in that game where Moss wasnt the Moss of the regluar season.

4. He didnt compare Jones to Moss. Or at least, not in the sense that you think. He related their situations as similar, but I believe that was it. Just that they were both head cases, who are coming off a bad wrap and may need a new environment to get going.

5. Talent rules? Really? Are you a Patriots fan? Seriously? Tell me talent rules when JR Redmond, Jermaine Wiggins, Troy Brown, Antowan Smith and David Patten went against Marshall Faulk, Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce, Ernie Conwell, the Rams OL and Kurt Warner. Please, tell me now that talent rules, especially in BB's team. Jesus, never seen such idiocy with this topic.


6. LAstly, Pacman has had chances to prove people wrong about him. He was told to stay away from strip joints, but just cant. The day he had a meeting with Goodell, he was at a strip club before the meeting. He is a lost cause to me. He has had several opportunites to stay away from that stuff, but he keeps going back. His problems and Randy's problems were not even close to being the same magnitude.

Overall, you dont know what your talking about. Its funny, because you didnt OWNZZZZ anyone. You made yourself look stupid with many points. I would venture to guess you are young and probably dont remember the Superbowl teams and who was on them. HAHA, Im still laughin when you said that Talent rules all. Haha, thats a joke. Dallas loaded up and it got them far right? We won 3 SB's with a ProBowl roster right? Please, come on, do us a favour.

RollingMoss
04-02-2008, 06:33 PM
I got a headache reading your reply. And you clearly didn't read what I wrote. Or you just ignored it. I'm leaning towards the latter.

Look back at it, Rodney was all over this guy and his grandma. It was a hell of a catch. I dont know how he made it, but it was amazing.
ME: Harrison forget how to bat down a ball

Again - he forgot to bat down the ball. He was all over him, good work, way to commit a PI - maybe he should've batted down the ball.

Second, Ellis Hobbs was supposedly playing with a torn muscle in his groin and it hurt his play. Am I using it as an excuse? No. Did he play bad the rest of the game? No. He had one slip, and a very inoprtune time.
ME: Ellis Hobbs played like Ellis Hobbs

If he was hurt, that makes it even dumber to have him on Plax in that situation. If he was healthy, he's still Ellis Hobbs. Either way, BB let his defensive prowess slip and it cost his team. As I said - the Pats D finally bent too much. It was fairly obvious - yes, with hindsight, but also during the year - that the D was Old and Tired and not what it Once was - why I said "BB overlooked his D". Ipsofacto - and why I said they should make a play for Pacman if it'd be inexpensive - they should add some youth to the D - especially the secondary (and ESPECIALLY after losing Samuel).

Explain to me again how letting up 10 points in 59 minutes and 17 points in the Superbowl is BB overlooking his "old" D, especially when this is a Giants offense that is capable of putting up points.
ME: the D played great for 3 qtrs and the O did what it had to. The D just bent too much for the first time all year, and considering the age of the players and the pressure, it's not that surprising in hindsight.

Seriously, did you read what I wrote? The other guy said "The Giants win was an example of hungry players winning" - I laughed at that because I thought the Pats were pretty hungry to be labeled "Best Team Ever". But, their achilles heel was an old slow defense that came back to bite them at the worst time possible - maybe if Harrison bats down that pass or Ellis Hobbs isn't covering Plax, that doesn't happen, eh? Anyway, if BB goes into next year with the same D - which will be even Older and Slower - that wouldn't be good. Everyone knows they need some young legs in the linebackers and secondary. If PacMan is cheap, he'd be a nice boom or bust pickup.


Moss tore it up in the regular season. Where was that rediculous production in the SuperBowl? Im not going to nag on him because he caught a TD in the final 3 minutes, but there were many chances in that game where Moss wasnt the Moss of the regluar season.
My reply? Brady and that line tore it up in the regular season. Where was that rediculous in the SuperBowl? Im not going to nag on them because they scored a TD in the final 3 minutes, but there were many chances in that game where Brady and that line wasn't the Brady and that line of the regular season....See what I did there?


Talent rules? Really? Are you a Patriots fan? Seriously? Tell me talent rules when JR Redmond, Jermaine Wiggins, Troy Brown, Antowan Smith and David Patten went against Marshall Faulk, Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce, Ernie Conwell, the Rams OL and Kurt Warner. Please, tell me now that talent rules, especially in BB's team. Jesus, never seen such idiocy with this topic.
Ty Law (HOFamer), Lawyer Milloy, Rodney Harrison(HOFamer), Vrabel, McGinnest(probably HOFamer), Seymour(at this pace, HOFamer), Brady(Yeah), Dillon, Branch, Givens, Troy Brown is a pretty accomplished receiver by the way, that line is the same now as it was then just more experienced (did it lose talent?), Bruschi, Ty Warren, Samuel....Etc, ETc, ETECEAGEA.

Way to ignore the players who actually got you there. And did you just say Ernie Conwell is talented? Really? Really? ALso, Wiggins Redmond, et al. did not go against Faulk, Holt, et al. - that would've been terrible defensive strategy. But that "analogy" helped make your point though, so, do you work for Fox News?


I would venture to guess you are young and probably dont remember the Superbowl teams and who was on them.
Huh...seems like you're the one who forgot.


Also, you apparently didn't understand what Talent Rules means: it means if you have talent, you get the chances. Pacman has the talent, will get the chance. As per your assumption, that a talented team rules all, I will grant you the Rams were more talented than that Pats team - the Panthers and Eagles were not, however. And neither were the Giants.


LAstly, Pacman has had chances to prove people wrong about him. He was told to stay away from strip joints, but just cant. The day he had a meeting with Goodell, he was at a strip club before the meeting. He is a lost cause to me.

Yes, going to a strip club is a bad thing. You're right. Wait, no, I mean you're wrong and a Puritan and a Fascist. Really, he's a lost cause for going to a strip club? He's YOUNG. He's HORNY. Big Deal man, a strip club????? LEONARD LITTLE KILLED A WOMAN WHILE DRIVING DRUNK - THAT WAS HIS SECOND DRUNK DRIVING OFFENSE! HE WAS SUSPENDED FOUR WEEKS! But yea, PacMan, he's the lost cause, and he wouldn't help your team at CB or PR, why bother. Lost Cause. Goes to Strip Clubs. What a loser. Someone, anyone, play that Beck song....Baby he's loooooooost....BAby he's loooooooost....Baby, Pacman's a lost cauuuuuuuuuuuseeee

Overall, you dont know what your talking about. You made yourself look stupid with many points.

....Come again?

Billingsley26
04-04-2008, 10:58 AM
I got a headache reading your reply. And you clearly didn't read what I wrote. Or you just ignored it. I'm leaning towards the latter.


ME: Harrison forget how to bat down a ball

Again - he forgot to bat down the ball. He was all over him, good work, way to commit a PI - maybe he should've batted down the ball.

Go back and watch the film. You'll see how Rodeny's arm was over top of Tyree's head coming down hard on his chest. Tell me that is forgetting to bat a ball down now. Maybe he miss judged the ball, but the fact remains that he was all over Tyree, like a dirty shirt. Wasnt bad coverage, just the greatest catch of all time.

ME: Ellis Hobbs played like Ellis Hobbs

If he was hurt, that makes it even dumber to have him on Plax in that situation. If he was healthy, he's still Ellis Hobbs. Either way, BB let his defensive prowess slip and it cost his team. As I said - the Pats D finally bent too much. It was fairly obvious - yes, with hindsight, but also during the year - that the D was Old and Tired and not what it Once was - why I said "BB overlooked his D". Ipsofacto - and why I said they should make a play for Pacman if it'd be inexpensive - they should add some youth to the D - especially the secondary (and ESPECIALLY after losing Samuel).

We didnt know he was hurt until after the SB. Even so, your gonna tell me that Hobbs is a bad #2 CB? Especially with some guys hes gone up against and shut down? This is what your implying, or well the way I took it anyways.


ME: the D played great for 3 qtrs and the O did what it had to. The D just bent too much for the first time all year, and considering the age of the players and the pressure, it's not that surprising in hindsight.

Bent too much? They played great all game, with the exception of two very unfortunate plays. How are you gonna call two things that you would probably never see again in the same game bending too much? Seriously? Tyree's catch will never be duplicated, and Hobbs falling on a fade route is unlikely as well. That is not bending too much at all. They shut down the run completly, which the Giants are driven on. And its not like Eli was lights out.

Seriously, did you read what I wrote? The other guy said "The Giants win was an example of hungry players winning" - I laughed at that because I thought the Pats were pretty hungry to be labeled "Best Team Ever". But, their achilles heel was an old slow defense that came back to bite them at the worst time possible - maybe if Harrison bats down that pass or Ellis Hobbs isn't covering Plax, that doesn't happen, eh? Anyway, if BB goes into next year with the same D - which will be even Older and Slower - that wouldn't be good. Everyone knows they need some young legs in the linebackers and secondary. If PacMan is cheap, he'd be a nice boom or bust pickup.

Because of the offense, the defense doesnt need to be in tip top shape. The offense will put up points and force teams to go away from their gameplan. The lack of athleticism (even though it really isnt a great as you are saying) can be hidden with football smarts. Has Bruschi, Vrabel etc ever been the best athletes at their postions? Ever? Nope. Football smarts allow them to get to the ball in the shortest distance. They dont need to run 4.4's to be great, as its already beens showed. Im not worried about this defense. Everyone said last year their acchiles was the run, yet in the playoffs, they seemed to just about shut everyone out with the run that they played.



My reply? Brady and that line tore it up in the regular season. Where was that rediculous in the SuperBowl? Im not going to nag on them because they scored a TD in the final 3 minutes, but there were many chances in that game where Brady and that line wasn't the Brady and that line of the regular season....See what I did there?



Ty Law (HOFamer), Lawyer Milloy, Rodney Harrison(HOFamer), Vrabel, McGinnest(probably HOFamer), Seymour(at this pace, HOFamer), Brady(Yeah), Dillon, Branch, Givens, Troy Brown is a pretty accomplished receiver by the way, that line is the same now as it was then just more experienced (did it lose talent?), Bruschi, Ty Warren, Samuel....Etc, ETc, ETECEAGEA.

Lol, ok, yes, they are that good, looking back now, but at that time, I am willing to best any money that you would have never though they'd be what they are. The first SB team was loaded with guys who were hard workers and had the drive and will to win. Like I said, JR Redmons, Antowan Smith, David Patten, Troy Brown etc...tell me those guys are HOFers. At that time, there were unproven Asante Samuel, Randall ***, Eartwind Moreland, not to mention Ty Law was hurt one year, and I believe Rodney was as well. The early SB was ;loaded with guys who had the will to work and win as a team, and they all bought into it.

Way to ignore the players who actually got you there. And did you just say Ernie Conwell is talented? Really? Really? ALso, Wiggins Redmond, et al. did not go against Faulk, Holt, et al. - that would've been terrible defensive strategy. But that "analogy" helped make your point though, so, do you work for Fox News?

Please dont play that stupid game with me. These offense duked it out. Hence they went up against each other. To see whose offense will put up more points. In that SB, who were the ones that got them there? Tebucky Jones, Otis Smith, Brandon Smith, Anthony Pleasent, Bobby Hamilton, Richard SEymour, Tedy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel, Lawyer Milloy, Ty Law and Poman Phifer. If you were referring to the defense that is. Im willing to bet that you didnt even know of half of those guys. And since you really like to do this, how many of these guys are HOFers? How many? You want me to do the offense as well? ok

Tom Brady, Marc Edwards, Antowain Smith, David Patten, Troy Brown, Ron Rutledge, Damien Woody, Joe Andruzzi, Matt light, Mike Compton, Greg Robinson-Randall. How many of these are HOFers again since your looking at it? Yeah, again, tell me again, that TALENT SPEAKS LOUDER THAN HARD WORK, ESPECIALLY WITH BB'S TEAM!


Huh...seems like you're the one who forgot.

Who forget? Please ask again


Also, you apparently didn't understand what Talent Rules means: it means if you have talent, you get the chances. Pacman has the talent, will get the chance. As per your assumption, that a talented team rules all, I will grant you the Rams were more talented than that Pats team - the Panthers and Eagles were not, however. And neither were the Giants.

Yes he will get a chance, but now your switching around to with any team, opposed to just the Pats.


Yes, going to a strip club is a bad thing. You're right. Wait, no, I mean you're wrong and a Puritan and a Fascist. Really, he's a lost cause for going to a strip club? He's YOUNG. He's HORNY. Big Deal man, a strip club????? LEONARD LITTLE KILLED A WOMAN WHILE DRIVING DRUNK - THAT WAS HIS SECOND DRUNK DRIVING OFFENSE! HE WAS SUSPENDED FOUR WEEKS! But yea, PacMan, he's the lost cause, and he wouldn't help your team at CB or PR, why bother. Lost Cause. Goes to Strip Clubs. What a loser. Someone, anyone, play that Beck song....Baby he's loooooooost....BAby he's loooooooost....Baby, Pacman's a lost cauuuuuuuuuuuseeee

Did I ever say there was anything wrong with going to a strip club? No, but what has been happening when Pacman goes here? Trouble happens, and there seems to be drugs, murder and cops involved every time. Open your eyes man.

....Come again?


My responses are in bold

RollingMoss
04-05-2008, 11:09 AM
I can't do this anymore. Your typos, your double logic, your ignoring of this while accepting that, and the coup de gras, "Murder is involved", yeah.

No murder has ever been involved with PacMan Jones. My God, the things you have said.

Harrison's all over him, I agreed with you. But did he bat down the ball??? No, he didn't. He commited a PI, that's all. I was saying, if he HAD batted down the ball, like he SHOULD HAVE, we aren't talking about this b/c the Pats win - b/c they play that game 10times the Pats win 9. And I haven't mentioned the Samuel dropped pick, or the fact the dline couldn't bring down Eli (while, admittingly, being held). The D finally bent, and if they had a little more talent or hadn't been as slow or old, maybe they don't bend. Colvin would've made a big difference in that game.

"Don't play that stupid game" - the game where the DEFENSE goes against an OFFENSE?? "they duked it out" - yeah, one of the greatest offenses of all-time duked it out to the tune of 17pts...that Defense was Much More talented than everyone thought - hence why I bet on the Pats to cover that spread, and hence, why the DEFENSE WENT AGAINST THE OFFENSE, LIKE REALLY? I HAVE TO CAPS THIS????. McGinnest and Law are HoFamers, Vrabel & Bruschi are borderline, Milloy was one of the best safeties in the game at the time - andBB callin the shots against a Mike Martz offense. Keep pointing to that game, like that proves "hungry determined Teams" are the be-all end-all - I keep saying their Defense was stacked, and you better have talent on the field. You're mentioning ******* special teams players and backup olineman as if that proves something. Antwain Smith was a killer in the right system, man. JrRedmond was so good they cut him after a year, right? Hey, I liked JR, but the Pats didn't seem to like him. And come on, Damien Woody and Matt Light? Two probowlers - and Light, one of the best tackles in the game? You said Troy Brown AGAIN?? one of if not the most accomplished receiver in pats history?? These are the players you mention to try and prove some crap about "HARD WORK"? THEY ALL WORK HARD, DUMBIE. THEY ALL WORK HARD - AND THEN THE CREAM, THE TALENT, RISES. dumbie.

Yes, I'm saying Ellis Hobbs sucks. He's a nickelback. Having him on Plaxico Burress - a bonafide top10 maybe higher Receiver - is a Bad Idea, in any situation.

"The defense doesn't need to be in top shape" is one hell of an excuse. You're like Dr. Phil with these excuses.

Haha, "now you're switching around to any team", yeah, way to read and comprehend what I've been saying. I'm switching around to any team now. Yeah. Because I had been saying come hell or high water the Pats NEEEED PAC-MAN! THEY NEED HIM DAMNIT! TRADE BRADY FOR HIM!!!!!!!!

I can't do this one anymore. You'll say anything regardless of truth or facts to try and prove your point. You have no point, you have no facts, and this is going nowhere. You're not 'listening' to what I'm saying, you're just trying to prove you're right. You're not right. You're Epically, Epically wrong. Please don't reply.

Billingsley26
04-07-2008, 11:47 AM
Are you dumb? Call me crazy if you want, but was there not a murdered stripper involed in one of the incidents that Pacman Jones was involved in? Pretty sure there was. Go check it up.

Well, if you think that one of the best catches of all time and Ellis Hobbs falling down is "bending" too much, then OK, you dont know what bending too much is. In 2007, when we played the Colts in he AFCCG, we bent too much at the end. That is bending, not what happened against the Giants.

All I have to say is if these two offense's weren't duking it out, then explain to me why everyon says when Tom Brady goes up against Peyton Manning. Please explain. These offense's duked it out to see who would put up more points plain and simple.

Yeah, Hobbs on Buress is a bad idea. Thats why Buress was...what...2 catches for 22 yards?

Lol, your stupididty kills me. Was NE's defense the most talented last year? Were they the best group of athletes in the league? Haha, if you think so. I dont know how you dont understand that this wasnt the best defense in the league talent wise. It helped ALOT that the offense was so good, and put up so many points that teams had to change it up. When some teams had success, it was running the ball. Why couldn't teams run the ball on NE? Because they were in the hole too deep to run the ball. HOLY! Your ignorance is funny.

I have no facts? Your telling me things that aren't true about Pacman, and your just saying YOUR BELIEFS! What...am I missing something...since when did RollingMoss' BELIEFS become facts?

RollingMoss
04-08-2008, 03:25 PM
God I'm dumb for getting involved in this again....

Are you dumb? Call me crazy if you want, but was there not a murdered stripper involed in one of the incidents that Pacman Jones was involved in? Pretty sure there was. Go check it up.

A bouncer was paralyzed, no one died. Hence, no murder. How about You check facts before calling people dumb. And, Pacman has yet to be convicted of that incident; this is America, where you're innocent until proven guilty. Also, no one called you crazy.

Well, if you think that one of the best catches of all time and Ellis Hobbs falling down is "bending" too much, then OK, you dont know what bending too much is. In 2007, when we played the Colts in he AFCCG, we bent too much at the end. That is bending, not what happened against the Giants.

The Colts showed how slow and old the Pats d had gotten in that game. It wasn't a bending; it was a bludgening. BB didn't do enough during the offseason to improve the D - especially the secondary - and it caught up with them in the Super Bowl. And, for some godforesaken reason I have to say this again, maybe Harrison should've Batted Down The Ball?

All I have to say is if these two offense's weren't duking it out, then explain to me why everyon says when Tom Brady goes up against Peyton Manning. Please explain. These offense's duked it out to see who would put up more points plain and simple.

Idiots say Manning goes against Brady because the media tells them that. Brady never "beat" Manning in those AFC Championship games; Ty Law did, Tedy Bruschi did, Mike Vrabel did, Willie McGinnest did. This is getting sad, man.

Yeah, Hobbs on Buress is a bad idea. Thats why Buress was...what...2 catches for 22 yards?

Asante Samuel would've probably been a better idea. Also, I'm pretty sure they doubled Burress throughout the game - except, you know, the biggest play of the game, when they left stupidly Hobbs on him one on one. Your straw man argument won't work here.

Lol, your stupididty kills me. Was NE's defense the most talented last year? Were they the best group of athletes in the league? Haha, if you think so. I dont know how you dont understand that this wasnt the best defense in the league talent wise. It helped ALOT that the offense was so good, and put up so many points that teams had to change it up. When some teams had success, it was running the ball. Why couldn't teams run the ball on NE? Because they were in the hole too deep to run the ball. HOLY! Your ignorance is funny.

Ugh. I don't even understand your first three sentences - where did they come from? When did I say NE's D was the most talented this year - in fact, when have I not been saying they were old and slow, you know, saying they weren't that talented this year??? Also, teams had trouble running the ball on NE because they were usually down by 30 - that's a credit to the offense, not the D, and it masked the D's age and problems, which finally caught up to them in the Super Bowl. I don't get your last point either - You realize you've contradicted Yourself, right?

I have no facts? Your telling me things that aren't true about Pacman, and your just saying YOUR BELIEFS! What...am I missing something...since when did RollingMoss' BELIEFS become facts?

You have no facts - especially regarding PacMan, and surprisingly, regarding your favorite team. When aliens read this text in thirty years, they will be embarassed for you and wonder about reading comprehension in the 21st century.

You lost this argument awhile ago man and your attempts at 'winning' it are depressing to read. I'd reconsider posting in this thread again.

Billingsley26
04-10-2008, 10:42 PM
First, I was wrong about the Pacman story.

This is too funny. Listen to yourself talk. You rave on me for what my thoughts are on the situation, and you back yourself up with what you think is right. Everything you have said is your speculation. You think your right, and you stand by it. I think Im right and I stand by it. Its going no where. You have not proven anything to me, other than what you think could've happened. Its all dandy that you have a lot of wishful thinking in you, but you don't need to keep it up. Im ending it here.

RollingMoss
04-11-2008, 04:42 PM
Hmmm..........You're ending it Here, Eh? You're gonna try and put your tail between your legs and slink off on your high horse with the last word, and hope I don't notice? I think not, bub.

First, I was wrong about the Pacman story.

No ****. Maybe you should read a little more before getting in over your head. Nice one sentence reply, too, after your belligerent and uniformed replies earlier.


This is too funny. Listen to yourself talk. You rave on me for what my thoughts are on the situation, and you back yourself up with what you think is right.

Decent point, I'll give you that - as I've given you credit on all your decent points. But, here's where you're, per usual, wrong: What you say is Dumb. You said PacMan was involved in murder and that my "ignorance is funny". You said Ernie Conwell was talented. You said JR Redmond went against Marshall Faulk. You said the Pats team wasn't talented and mentioned Antwain Smith (a repeat 1,000yard rusher) and Mike Compton (backup lineman) as examples - and conviently forgot Ty Law, McGinnest, et, al. You said Manning goes against Brady and thought that was a Sublime point. You contradicted yourself so many times I can't count them. I didn't back myself up with what I think is right, that's what you did; I backed myself up with stats and facts. You couldn't refute any of it, You changed the subjects, You played fast and loose with facts and history, and You escalated this. Now you're gonna try and act like the Civil and Humble and Mature person? No dice.

Everything you have said is your speculation. You think your right, and you stand by it. I think Im right and I stand by it. Its going no where. You have not proven anything to me, other than what you think could've happened. Its all dandy that you have a lot of wishful thinking in you, but you don't need to keep it up. Im ending it here.

No, I don't think I'm right, I could very well be wrong - but I definately Know you're wrong.

Billingsley26
04-11-2008, 06:08 PM
Hmmm..........You're ending it Here, Eh? You're gonna try and put your tail between your legs and slink off on your high horse with the last word, and hope I don't notice? I think not, bub.

[b]Haha, your a hypocrite, calling out a man for calling you son, and saying this. Interesting.[b]

No ****. Maybe you should read a little more before getting in over your head. Nice one sentence reply, too, after your belligerent and uniformed replies earlier.




Decent point, I'll give you that - as I've given you credit on all your decent points. But, here's where you're, per usual, wrong: What you say is Dumb. You said PacMan was involved in murder and that my "ignorance is funny". You said Ernie Conwell was talented. You said JR Redmond went against Marshall Faulk. You said the Pats team wasn't talented and mentioned Antwain Smith (a repeat 1,000yard rusher) and Mike Compton (backup lineman) as examples - and conviently forgot Ty Law, McGinnest, et, al. You said Manning goes against Brady and thought that was a Sublime point. You contradicted yourself so many times I can't count them. I didn't back myself up with what I think is right, that's what you did; I backed myself up with stats and facts. You couldn't refute any of it, You changed the subjects, You played fast and loose with facts and history, and You escalated this. Now you're gonna try and act like the Civil and Humble and Mature person? No dice.



No, I don't think I'm right, I could very well be wrong - but I definately Know you're wrong.

Haha, maybe your reading is a little off.

1. I never said myself that Manning went against Brady. I said the media says that.
2. I never said that JR Redmond went up agaisnt Marshall Faulk. I said the two offense duked it out.
3. Yeah, because Antowain Smith is so good. The year he ran for over 1000 with NE, he avgeraged 72 yards a game. Yeah, hes real talented eh?
4. I never called Ernie Conwell talented himself, I said he was part of a very talented offense which he was a part of.
5. I forgot about Ty Law? Please go back and read smart guy. You call out everyone for not reading, watch your mouth.
6. I dont remember off hand, but I listed off two different sites which had the starters, which I named, and Mcginest wasnt on either. I guess you didnt notice that.
7. What you also didnt know, but your head told you to speak so soon, even though you are wrong is that Mike Compton started the SB. Care to read things? I guess, in your case, no.
8. Please restate the "facts" you provided. I must have missed those.

Funny, that you like to call people out and do the same thing. I just had to write back and expose you. Just had to.

Bigburt63
04-11-2008, 09:20 PM
Aren't we fans for the same team? Besides, its a moot point as the patritos do not seem to be interested in him anymore.

Billingsley, u gotta change ur sig man, they are both in the nba draft

RollingMoss
04-14-2008, 01:24 PM
Haha, maybe your reading is a little off.

1. I never said myself that Manning went against Brady. I said the media says that.
2. I never said that JR Redmond went up agaisnt Marshall Faulk. I said the two offense duked it out.
3. Yeah, because Antowain Smith is so good. The year he ran for over 1000 with NE, he avgeraged 72 yards a game. Yeah, hes real talented eh?
4. I never called Ernie Conwell talented himself, I said he was part of a very talented offense which he was a part of.
5. I forgot about Ty Law? Please go back and read smart guy. You call out everyone for not reading, watch your mouth.
6. I dont remember off hand, but I listed off two different sites which had the starters, which I named, and Mcginest wasnt on either. I guess you didnt notice that.
7. What you also didnt know, but your head told you to speak so soon, even though you are wrong is that Mike Compton started the SB. Care to read things? I guess, in your case, no.
8. Please restate the "facts" you provided. I must have missed those.

Funny, that you like to call people out and do the same thing. I just had to write back and expose you. Just had to.

Oh you gotta be ******* kidding me. Just.....wow. Wow. Wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow, you revisionist. Wow...you actually took things I said and said you said them. Wow. This is amazing. This is priceless. Actually, this is very sad.

I dont even get the "hypocrite" thing you tried there - how at all are the two things similar? How?
You said the media said that, eh?
You never said JR Redmond went against Marshall Faulk?
Running for 1,000 yards isn't talented now?
You mentioned Ty Law, eh? You were the first one to mention him, huh?
Also - for future reference - Ernie Conwell Never needs to be mentioned when talking about those Rams teams.

Hey, Mike Compton started in that first one, fine, got me, good for you. One mistake I've made. And if McGinnest wasn't "starting", that's pure semantics. McGinnest was a starter, plain and simple.

And to the other guy, the levelheaded guy, you're right, it's no big deal now. They're not interested in PacMan, can't blame them, the price is too high now. And I'm not a Pats fan.

But this billingsly character.....wow.

Again, you've been rude, you've been talking about both sides of your mouth, and you've insulted me - with absolutely no reason or reasoning. I have been calm with you up until a point (acting high and mighty with your last two posts haven't helped you out any with that); I tried to focus on your words and ideas and not you personally. I tried...you reply again, and I won't anymore.

Here's my thesis for you one more time: Those Patriots teams weren't as un-talented as they've been made to seem. They were plenty talented. They had mucho talent. This idea that the Pats need to go back to those days, "before Moss" - to where they didn't value talent or something as much as hard work - is ludicrous. They've always valued and had talent, and everyone works hard at that level - save a Shaun Rogers here and there. What they need is to get Younger on D. That's it. Those talented Defensive players, who were the main reasons for winning them super bowls, are Old now. They need to be replaced. This is what I've been saying, pretty much.

Now, for the love of God, leave me alone, don't reply, don't neg rep me again (classy, by the way), don't say anything. Go away. You've been wrong, you'll be wrong, and I'm getting tired of this 'argument'.