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View Full Version : ThePudge's Bengals Draft Database - 2008 - Vol. I


ThePudge
03-23-2008, 01:43 AM
Normally, I would post this on the team board, but I figured it's more for everyone else, not just Bengals fans.

2008 Cincinnati Bengals Draft Database
Head Coach - Marvin Lewis
Offensive Coordinator - Bob Bratkowski
Defensive Coordinator - Mike Zimmer*
-Defensive Scheme: 4-3 with 3-4 looks likely from time to time


Mock Draft (With Projected Compensatory Picks* as projected by AdamJT13, Second Day Picks may end up different #’s)

1(9). Derrick Harvey - DE - Florida - I could fall into the trap of believing that Sedrick Ellis or perhaps even Glenn Dorsey with be available when we choose at 9th Overall. However, that is what that may be, a trap. If Dorsey or Ellis falls past Kansas City at 5, it’s a safe bet that either New Orleans or Carolina will be working the phones to move up. For that reason, I am conservative, and I went with Derrick Harvey, a long, talented, pass-rusher from Florida. It is common knowledge by now that Marvin Lewis coveted Jarvis Moss in last year’s draft, he was the type of long, athletic pass-rusher that had Lewis salivating. This year, Harvey is a better prospect than Moss was, and rumor has it that this is Marvin‘s guy. As a DE, Harvey is more complete and far more polished than Moss was. Harvey is explosive off the line and causes problems in the backfield, something the Bengals DE’s really didn’t do a year ago. While I have no problem admitting that there are bigger needs than DE, DT in particular, we have absolutely no depth to speak of at the DE spot. Harvey would provide the Bengals with an instant impact pass rusher to throw in the rotation with Antwan Odom and Robert Geathers. DE is a spot in which, like CB, you really can’t have enough.

2(46). Matt Forte - RB - Tulane - Strange, every year RB finds its way near the top of the “To Do” list. Even with Kenny Irons selected in the 2nd Round in last April’s draft the Bengals are in need of fresh legs. Last season, Irons tore his ACL and has an uncertain future. Chris Perry was, of course, hurt all season. Rudi Johnson suddenly became injury prone and ran much softer than in recent years, the RB wear and tear had taken its toll. Forte gives us a capable replacement for Rudi Johnson and would set us up for a nice trendy new two back system with he and Irons. Coming off a serious injury, Forte ran for 2,127 yards this past year, 23 Td’s, and displayed good hands out of the backfield with over 100 receptions over his four years at Tulane. He amazed all on hand with a 4.46 40 time at the Combine after weighing in at 6’1 3/8 217. Similar to former Bengals RB Corey Dillon in many ways. One way he’s not: Forte is a high-character player with a great work-ethic.

3(77). Red Bryant - DT - Texas A&M - Bryant is the type of big DT the Bengals have worked so hard to get this offseason. A huge, athletic body who could be something great with a little tough coaching. Luckily, Bryant is a high character player and a hard worker. He isn’t much of a pass-rusher, but he gives the team far more than just a big body against the run. He’ll drop because of injury concerns and a somewhat disappointing pro day at which he didn’t seem very well conditioned. Bengals personnel attended Bryant’s Pro Day and also put him through some OL drills.

3(97)*. Stanford Keglar - OLB - Purdue - A real Mike Zimmer/Jeff Fitzgerald type pick. Keglar’s a big, athletic OLB prospect who will be over-drafted because of his physical tools. Luckily, there is none better at molding these tools into a fine player and potentially a star. Adalius Thomas, Bart Scott, and Jarett Johnson were all molded from raw, not so well known players, with all the physical tools, into fine players under Fitzgerald. Keglar may come in as his player with the most potential. Keglar is smart, a hard worker, and is more or less ridiculously athletic. Just take a look at the LB numbers from the Combine. This big, athletic prospect could be a much better pro than he was college player and will immediately make his mark on Special Teams.

4(111). Mike McGlynn - OG/OT - Pittsburgh - Here the Bengals make a move to continue shoring up the OL. McGlynn is a big, versatile OL who can play Guard or Tackle. His best fit is likely at RG though where he would back up Bobbie Williams and potentially overtake him sometime in the future.

5(148). Kevin Robinson - WR/RS - Utah State - The Bengals find yet another guy who fits the system perfectly when they find Robinson in the 5th. Robinson was a standout WR/RS in college and carried over his success at the East-West Shrine game where he impressed. Redeemed himself after a poor Combine when he ran a sub 4.5 at his Pro Day this past week.

6(181). Angelo Craig - OLB - Cincinnati - Another big, athletic project could pay off if Fitzgerald/Zimmer could utilize his skills. Would contribute as a rush LB and could help on special teams right away.

6(210)*. Fernando Velasco - C - Georgia - Versatile OL who would simply give the Center position some depth behind Eric Ghaiciuc and battle 2007 7th Rounder Dan Santucci for a roster spot.

6(211)*. Jehuu Caulcrick - FB - Michigan State - A big, high character former RB who would try his hand at FB if drafted by the Bengals. Has some ability carrying the ball and could contribute in red zone packages.

7(248)*. Richard Clebert - DT - South Florida - Short, thick NT type who could push for a roster spot in a thin rotation. Not exactly a high-stamina player and his game is strictly defending the run, but he can be a pain to block when motivated.


Team Needs

1. Defensive Tackle - If this offseason has been clear on anything, it’s that the team desperately is searching for a big time DT. Failed trades for Shaun Rogers and Dwayne Robertson are evidence of the Bengals desire to add a big, athletic body in the middle. Domata Peko is a solid, young player but opposite him we have nothing special. John Thornton and Bryan Robinson are at their best serving as backups, but the common thinking is that we have to add someone inside to help take pressure off the DE’s and allow the LB’s to roam. Expect the Bengals to target a DT in one of the first three rounds. Best case scenario would of course be if Glenn Dorsey or Sedrick Ellis fell at 9, but that’s not something I’d count on. Notre Dame’s Trevor Laws or Auburn’s Pat Sims in the 2nd or perhaps Texas A&M’s Red Bryant, UT’s Frank Okam, or Iowa State’s Ahtyba Rubin in the 3rd are some players I wouldn’t be surprised to see as Bengals if, in fact, Dorsey and Ellis are gone by our First Round Pick.

ThePudge’s Top DT Rankings (As of 3/21/08)
1. Glenn Dorsey - LSU - Top 5 Pick
2. Sedrick Ellis - USC - Top 10 Pick (NT)
3. Trevor Laws - Notre Dame - Late First-Early Second
4. Kentwan Balmer - North Carolina - Late First-Early Second (3-4 DE)
5. Dre Moore - Maryland - Second Round
6. Pat Sims - Auburn - Mid-Late Second Round
7. Red Bryant - Texas A&M - Late Second-Mid Third
8. Ahtyba Rubin - Iowa State - Third Round (NT)
9. Marcus Harrison - Arkansas - Third Round
10. Frank Okam - Texas - Mid Third-Early Fourth

2. Weakside Linebacker - This is a need misunderstood by the media and even most draft experts. If, or rather when, we draft a Linebacker in this year’s draft, it will not be to start right away. Dhani Jones is our current starter at WLB, like it or not. Jones, of course, is not the long-term solution. However, with his three year contract, it buys new Defensive Coordinator Mike Zimmer and new Linebackers Coach Jeff Fitzgerald enough time to develop their type of LB. They each favor bigger, more athletic types at LB. Fitzgerald turned Mid-Late Round picks Adalius Thomas and Bart Scott (UDFA) into stars in Baltimore and guys like Jarret Johnson and Antwan Barnes into serviceable players. Mike Zimmer played a big part in the development of DeMarcus Ware in Dallas. The trend is, as I said before, bigger, more athletic LB’s that may struggle with technique. We’d likely sit the player for a year or so, play him mostly on Special Teams, then gradually move him into the lineup. So I wouldn’t buy into the Keith Rivers hype, as it is most likely, not true. Auburn’s Quentin Groves may be considered a reach at 9th Overall, but is the top fit for the Bengals at LB. Other players who would fit the bill in the 3rd-4th are Purdue’s Stanford Keglar, GT’s Gary Guyton, Nevada’s Ezra Butler, Georgia’s Marcus Howard, and BYU’s Bryan Kehl. A couple late-round sleepers include Clark’s Curtis Johnson and Vanderbilt’s Curtis Gatewood.

ThePudge’s Top OLB Rankings (As of 3/21/08)
1. Keith Rivers - USC - Top 20
2. Quentin Groves - Auburn - Top 25
3. Dan Connor - Penn State - Late First-Early Second
4. Cliff Avril - Purdue - Late First-Mid Second
5. Erin Henderson - Maryland - Second Round
6. Tavares Gooden - Miami - Second Round
7. Phillip Wheeler - Georgia Tech - Mid Second-Early Third
8. Geno Hayes - Florida State - Early Third-Early Fourth
9. Xavier Adibi - Virginia Tech - Mid Third-Early Fourth
10. Gary Guyton - Georgia Tech - Late Third-Mid Fourth
11. Stanford Keglar - Purdue - Late Third-Mid Fourth
12. Ali High smith - LSU - Late Third-Mid Fourth
13. Ezra Butler - Nevada - Late Third-Mid Fourth
14. Bryan Kehl - BYU - Fourth Round
15. Jordan Dizon - Colorado - Fourth Round

3. Defensive End- A strange need. Marvin Lewis has made it public that the team needs to add pass-rushers on the DL, inside and out. Well, the team certainly landed a decent one in Antwan Odom, but I don’t think it stops there. The team is remarkably thin at DE and could afford to add another body, another pass-rusher. The Giants, whether they had won the Super Bowl or not, are a great example: you can’t have too many talented DE’s. The Bengals need to pick up a DE to take pressure off Odom and Geathers. Don’t be shocked if the right player is there at #9 if the Cincinnati picks him, even after they gave Odom a big contract. Likely a first day need. Some pass-rushers that provide good fits are Florida’s Derrick Harvey in the 1st, Calais Campbell in the 2nd, Jeremy Thompson in the 3rd or perhaps Va Tech’s Chris Ellis or Georgia Tech’s Darrell Robertson, both of whom are borderline 3rd/4th Rounders.

ThePudge’s Top DE Rankings (as of 3/22/08)
1. Vernon Gholson - Ohio State - Top 5 (OLB)
2. Chris Long - Virginia - Top 5 (OLB)
3. Derrick Harvey - Florida - Top 15
4. Phillip Merling - Clemson - Top 25
5. Calais Campbell - Miami - Late First-Early Second
6. Lawrence Jackson - USC - Second Round
7. Jason Jones - Eastern Michigan - Mid Second-Early Third
8. Jermey Thompson - Wake Forest - Late Second-Mid Third
9. Chris Ellis - Virginia Tech - Mid Third-Early Fourth (OLB)
10. Darrell Robertson - Georgia Tech - Late Third-Mid Fourth
11. Marcus Howard - Georgia - Fourth Round (OLB)
12. Kenny Iwebema - Iowa - Early Fourth-Early Fifth
13. Kendall Langford - Hampton - Mid Fourth-Early Fifth (3-4 DE)
14. Dorian Smith - Oregon State - Late Fourth-Fifth Round
15. Brian Johnston - Gardener-Webb - Late Fourth-Early Sixth

4. Cornerback - Obviously with starters Jonathan Joseph and Leon Hall in place for years to come this isn’t that pressing of a need. Deltha O’Neal is getting up there and age and his play is starting to dip a bit as he may be lacking the quickness or awareness he had in say 2005-06. He is still a solid #3 option, but the team needs to groom a replacement nickel back because of O’Neal’s age and because his contract expires next year. In this pass-happy league corners are at a premium and you can’t really have too many good ones. We are thin here and should look into adding some fresh young talent and depth. Might not be a first round priority, but could be addressed as early as the second if the right guy slips. Most likely, a 2nd-4th Round pick will be spent on a CB. We’re likely to be looking for a zone-corner, a ball-hawk who could help us get back to the 2005 stage.

ThePudge’s Top CB Rankings (as of 3/21/08)
1. Leodis McKelvin - Troy - Top 15
2. Dominique Rodgers-Cromarty - Tenn. State - Top 20
3. Aqib Talib - Kansas - Top 25
4. Mike Jenkins - South Florida - Top 25
5. Brandon Flowers - Virginia Tech - Top 32
6. Patrick Lee - Auburn - Late First-Mid Second
7. Antoine Cason - Arizona - Second Round
8. Justin King - Penn State - Mid Second-Early Third
9. Tracy Porter - Indiana - Late Second-Early Third
10. Charles Godfrey - Iowa - Early-Mid Third
11. Terrell Thomas - USC - Mid Third-Early Fourth
12. Orlando Scandrick - Boise State - Late Third-Mid Fourth
13. Tyvon Branch - Connecticut - Late Third-Mid Fourth
14. Antwaun Molden - Western Kentucky - Fourth Round
15. Jack Ikegwuonu - Wisconsin - Fourth Round*

5. Offensive Tackle/Offensive Guard - Along with Linebackers, the Offensive Line was riddled with injuries and Cincinnati was always looking to mix and match players/positions to find the right match. You could definitely make the argument that the right match was never found. Depth here is also a must. The Bengals, under Marvin Lewis, have looked for their own type of Offensive Lineman. Cincinnati is always searching for the next big, athletic body that can fill in at both OT and OG if needed. The team’s going to have a hole on the OL soon, when Willie Anderson retires. Stacy Andrews will fill in for Anderson, of course, but we will lack depth on an aging (Williams and Jones) line. This could be the year that the Bengals surprise, if no defensive stud is available, and take a big OT in the first. Luckily there are quite a few options in Boise State’s Ryan Clady and Pittsburgh’s Jeff Otah. In the 2nd Round, options include: Nebraska’s Carl Nicks, USC’s Chilo Rachal, or perhaps Boston College’s Gosder Cherilus. A couple later options would be Newberry’s Heath Benedict in the 3rd or Pittsburgh’s Mike McGlynn, who projects as a 4th Rounder.

ThePudge’s Top OT Rankings (As of 3/22/08)
1. Jake Long - Michigan - Top 5
2. Ryan Clady - Boise State - Top 15
3. Chris Williams - Vanderbilt - Top 15
4. Jeff Otah - Pittsburgh - Top 25
5. Gosder Cherilus - Boston College - Late First-Early Second
6. Carl Nicks - Nebraska - Early-Mid Second Round
7. Sam Baker - USC - Mid Second-Early Third (OG)
8. Anthony Collins - Kansas - Late Second-Mid Third
9. Heath Benedict - Newberry - Third Round
10. Duane Brown - Virginia Tech - Mid Third-Early Fourth

ThePudge’s Top OG Rankings (As of 3/22/08)
1. Branden Albert - Virginia - Top 20 (OT)
2. Chilo Rachal - USC - Early-Mid Second Round
3. Oniel Cousins - UTEP - Late Second-Late Third (OT)
4. Roy Schuening - Oregon State - Mid Third-Early Fourth
5. Mike McGlynn - Pittsburgh - Fourth Round (OT)

6. Running Back - A questionable need. Only an early round need if addressed at all on April 26-27th. The Bengals running game suffered last year, of course because of injuries. However, even when Rudi Johnson wasn’t hurt, he didn’t look like the same player. Rudi didn’t run with the amount of power a year ago as he did in years past. The wear and tear is really beginning to show, leaving a big hole as we have no feature back. I’m a firm believer that we’ll stick to our power running game ways, yet I think there will be a two-back system developed between Kenny Irons and a draftee in the near future. Obviously the type of back the Bengals are in the market for is a big, grinding back that can handle the load and help in the redzone and short-yardage situations. Illinois RB Rashard Mendenhall at 9 would be a surprise, yet a realistic one. Matt Forte from Tulane also is a big, tough back with impressive athleticism, he could be available in the 2nd Round. UCF’s Kevin Smith is another big back, but with a 4th Round value, may actually be too late.

ThePudge’s Top RB Rankings (As of 3/22/08)
1. Darren McFadden - Arkansas - Top 10
2. Rashard Mendenhall - Illinois - Top 15
3. Jonathan Stewart - Oregon - Top 20
4. Felix Jones - Arkansas - Second Round
5. Chris Johnson - East Carolina - Early Second-Early Third
6. Matt Forte - Tulane - Mid Second-Early Third
7. Ray Rice - Rutgers - Mid Second-Mid Third
8. Jamaal Charles - Texas - Late Second-Mid Third
9. Tashard Choice - Georgia Tech - Late Third-Fourth Round
10. Kevin Smith - UCF - Early Fourth-Early Fifth

7. Wide Receiver - With the conflicts at this positions, no one really knows what exactly is going on. If the problems continue to escalate, so does this need. Realistically the Bengals could target a WR as early as the 2nd or 3rd Round. Though it is not certain what type of WR Cincinnati would target exactly, it is thought that he should be able to help out in the return game where the Bengals have struggled to make a difference. A real crap-shoot concerning the exact player.

ThePudge’s Top WR Rankings (As of 3/22/08)
1. Limas Sweed - Texas - Top 20
2. Devin Thomas - Michigan State - Top 25
3. DeSean Jackson - California - Top 32
4. Malcolm Kelly - Oklahoma - Late First-Early Second
5. James Hardy - Indiana - Late First-Early Second
6. Mario Manningham - Michigan - Late First-Mid Second
7. Andre Caldwell - Florida - Mid-Late Second Round
8. Eddie Royal - Virginia Tech - Late Second-Mid Third
9. Early Doucet - LSU - Late Second-Mid Third
10. Earl Bennett - Vanderbilt - Third Round
11. Donnie Avery - Houston - Third Round
12. Jerome Simpson - Coastal Carolina - Early Third-Early Fourth
13. Dexter Jackson - Appalachian State - Early Third-Early Fourth
14. Adrian Arrington - Michigan - Late Third-Mid Fourth
15. Jordy Nelson - Kansas State - Fourth Round


Misunderstood “Needs”

1. Safety - Safety is a position that won't be addressed until the 4th Round or perhaps later still. With Nedu Ndukwe (and Dexter Jackson) at SS and Marvin White (and Ethan Kilmer) at FS, we have young talent that the team supposedly loves. The team did, however, go after a veteran FS in Marlon McCree. McCree would be there to provide veteran insurance for White and help him become a better player, he would have been forced into starter duty only if White faltered. The team could, of course, draft for depth at the position with a player such as TCU's David Roach, but he'll likely be selected by the time we pick in the 4th. Point being, I highly doubt we target a Safety with an early pick.

2. Tight End - TE was a need this offseason, Marvin Lewis said that this year they were finally planning to incorporate a TE more into their offense as a receiving threat. The team was targeting big, athletic, pass-catchers, keeping a close eye on their Combine performances and Pro Days. Turns out we got Utecht, which is great. This ensures us of not having to use a pick (at least an early pick). Utecht, Kelly, and Coats gives us both talent and depth at the position. Perhaps they'll target a TE with a 6th-7th Round Pick to add some competition and potentially developmental value. Gary Barnridge from Louisville is likely to be drafted a bit before that range, but the name should give you an idea of our outlook on the position.


Player Observations (per nfl.com, kffl.com)

- DL Coaches at Notre Dame’s Pro Day for Trevor Laws
- OL Coaches at Boston College’s Pro Day for Gosder Cherilus
- Mike Zimmer at Florida’s Pro Day for Derrick Harvey
- Bob Bratkowski and RB Coach at Illinois’ Pro Day for Rashard Mendenhall
-Set up a private workout/interview also
- TE Coach at Tennessee’s Pro Day for Brad Cottam
- WR Coach at Oklahoma State’s Pro Day for Adarius Bowman
- TE Coach at Michigan State’s Pro Day for Kellen Davis
- LB Coach at BYU’s Pro Day for Bryan Kehl
- Bratkowski at Cal’s Pro Day for (?)
- DeSean Jackson, Lavelle Hawkins, Robert Jordan, Justin Forsett, Craig Stevens
- Marvin Lewis at Auburn’s Pro Day for Quentin Groves, Pat Sims, or Patrick Lee
- Lewis at Ohio State’s Pro Day for Vernon Gholston
- Eight coaches at Purdue’s Pro Day, including…
- TE Coach for Dustin Keller
- LB Coach and Zimmer for Cliff Avril and Stanford Keglar
- DB Coaches at USF’s Pro Day for Mike Jenkins or Trae Williams
- TE Coach at Texas A&M’s Pro Day for Martellus Bennett
-Also at A&M’s Pro Day for Red Bryant, put him through OL Drills
- DL Coaches at Eastern Michigan’s Pro Day for Jason Jones
- Private workout scheduled with Indiana CB Leslie Majors
- DL Coaches at Miami’s Pro Day for Calais Campbell
- Private workout scheduled with Toledo RB Jalen Parmele

MooshooGawd
03-23-2008, 09:36 AM
Impressive writeup! I've still not prepared myself for us drafting anyone besides Ellis or Dorsey. I guess I wouldn't be too disappointed with Harvey. As you said, you can never have too many young pass rushers. I also wouldn't be too down about drafting Groves, as Zimmer and Fitzgerald know a thing or two about converting DE's into Linebackers.

I've got this weird feeling though that they'll go with OT or Mendenhall.

themaninblack
03-23-2008, 11:51 AM
nice work pudge. i agree with most of what you said.

DeathbyStat
03-23-2008, 12:03 PM
Great write up. I think we need a write up like this for every team.

swordman
03-23-2008, 12:32 PM
It can totally happen this way and I would be pissed off

a rotational guy with the #9 pick?
another rb in the secound

There is not one guy that could start right away in the whole draft and when you pick nine the mandatory minimum should be at least one

I am definitely not saying that you are wrong as a matter of fact I am pissed off because it could totally happen this way I think it sucks

ThePudge
03-23-2008, 12:36 PM
It can totally happen this way and I would be pissed off

a rotational guy with the #9 pick?
another rb in the secound

There is not one guy that could start right away in the whole draft and when you pick nine the mandatory minimum should be at least one

I am definitely not saying that you are wrong as a matter of fact I am pissed off because it could totally happen this way I think it sucks

In my opinion, the only position we'll be drafting for an immediate starter for is Defensive Tackle. Harvey though would likely move into a starter spot soon i think, moving Robert Geathers back into a more comfortable rotational DE, pass-rushing specialist, etc.

adamprez2003
03-24-2008, 02:01 AM
awesome analysis pudge