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View Full Version : Who has seena a lot of Merling?


Bobo
03-23-2008, 03:11 PM
While trying to search for a little info on this guy I get opinions that seem more based on stats or the fact that he won't be able to workout before the draft. I'd like to hear some from people who've seen him a good deal and have an idea of what type of player he is and how good he is.

I believe Mayock's opinion of him was so high because he's supposed to be good against the run, right? I think that pass rush is most valued in DE's (and I assume the majority do as well). I know his sack #'s aren't great, but that doesn't always tell the whole story either. I guess the big question some has is his pass rush ability.

Anyone know where there are any clips of him?

neko4
03-23-2008, 03:20 PM
a friend of mine watched alot of him and classified him as a "beast"
mostly against the run.
check the MSN videos thread

JagHombre22
03-23-2008, 03:33 PM
I heard he has alot more upside than Gaines Adams...but I don't know if that's true...

bam bam
03-23-2008, 04:08 PM
I heard Diet Dr Pepper tastes more like regular Dr Pepper

Ware_HITStick
03-23-2008, 05:01 PM
As a USC fan I've watched him in person every year since he has been at Clemson. I actually didn't really think of him ever as a "highly rated" college player. One year wonder in my opinion.

SimonRath
03-23-2008, 05:23 PM
I heard Diet Dr Pepper tastes more like regular Dr Pepper

that was dumb

bam bam
03-23-2008, 06:12 PM
you obviously liked it enough to comment on it

sucker

neko4
03-23-2008, 06:53 PM
you obviously liked it enough to comment on it

sucker
no i think that comment wasnt needed

Addict
03-23-2008, 07:09 PM
you obviously liked it enough to comment on it

sucker

way to go, makin' a name for yourself...

oh and Merling is probably the best All-Rounder.. he can do both, but does neither exceptionally well.

regoob2
03-23-2008, 07:10 PM
I heard Diet Dr Pepper tastes more like regular Dr Pepper
Well it did make me laugh. Merling reminds me of Jamaal Anderson from last years draft. Great size and good against the run, good athlete for his size but will struggle to get consistent pressure on the qb. Will probably be underappreciated as most run stuffers are.

ATLDirtyBirds
03-23-2008, 07:24 PM
I've never bought into the hype. He's a good all-around player. He's a + run-stopper and his pass-rush isn't great. Not someone I'd spend a top 20 on personally.

Addict
03-23-2008, 07:25 PM
I've never bought into the hype. He's a good all-around player. He's a + run-stopper and his pass-rush isn't great. Not someone I'd spend a top 20 on personally.

yeah exactly. He's less Athletic Chris Long without the exceptional motor.

SchizophrenicBatman
03-23-2008, 09:12 PM
I haven't paid a lot of attention to him personally but I've watched a lot of ACC ball and he never stood out.

I compared him to Charles Johnson a couple months ago and the response was that, like Charles Johnson, he's being projected into the first round based on supposed combine numbers and that, like Johnson, he would fall into the 3rd if the numbers didn't show up.

Well lo and behold, he was nothing special at the combine and yet he's still carrying a 1st round grade

Hokie_Pokie08
03-23-2008, 09:30 PM
I haven't paid a lot of attention to him personally but I've watched a lot of ACC ball and he never stood out.

I compared him to Charles Johnson a couple months ago and the response was that, like Charles Johnson, he's being projected into the first round based on supposed combine numbers and that, like Johnson, he would fall into the 3rd if the numbers didn't show up.

Well lo and behold, he was nothing special at the combine and yet he's still carrying a 1st round grade

but he didn't work out at the combine.

toonsterwu
03-23-2008, 09:30 PM
Um, he was nothing special because, well, he didn't do anything at the combine. He was hurt.

Overall, the scouting reports are fairly consistent. Judging him by his sack numbers wouldn't be that fair considering how Clemson utilized him. He's solid against the run. There's a lot of suggestions that he can move to DT, which I've made myself, but he's better as a DE that slides inside on pass rushing situations unless he puts on not only more size, but more power. That said, most believe he could probably put around 15 or so pounds and play in the 290 range without much loss of athletic ability. While he's not a polished pass rusher, he has what appears to be very good edge quickness. Whether or not he's the freakish athlete that has been rumored, well, we won't know.

His inability to work out hurts him if you believe that he was a top athlete that might've moved into the top 10. If you believe he is a marginal athlete, then to an extent, his inability to workout, while not being a positive, might be more neutral than negative, as he looks good in games. There's mixed reports on whether or not he will work out.

As of now, I'd guess that he comes off the board in that 15-20 range of the first. With a dropoff in end talent after the top 4 (or 5, if you include Groves), unless some significant problem arises (and with surgeries, that's always a possibility, or if he works out poorly), I don't imagine a significant drop is possible. In the absolute worst cas scenario assuming that there is no serious medical concern, I think he would come off the board early 2nd.

foozball
03-23-2008, 09:33 PM
didnt he do the bench at the combine? i believe he put up 17 reps...

Bobo
03-23-2008, 10:02 PM
There's a lot of suggestions that he can move to DT, which I've made myself, but he's better as a DE that slides inside on pass rushing situations unless he puts on not only more size, but more power. That said, most believe he could probably put around 15 or so pounds and play in the 290 range without much loss of athletic ability.

I think that type of versatility could make him more valuable to some teams. The Titans used KVB inside some, and he had some success. Odom was used there some, but he didn't do much. They never played an end inside a lot that I can remember, but it's a copy cat league and how Tuck was used sure looks like a good way to win. The Titans thrived a lot on pass rush last year, but they'll need a bit of help now, that's why I'm interested in Merling a bit. Maybe a very different type of player than say Groves, but maybe one who can still make plays one way or another.

Although his stock has certainly dropped, Gillberry is a guy who could make plays playing inside as well.

BamaFalcon59
03-23-2008, 10:19 PM
From everything I hear and have read he sounds like a smaller Jamaal Anderson.

BaLLiN
03-23-2008, 10:23 PM
I haven't paid a lot of attention to him personally but I've watched a lot of ACC ball and he never stood out.

I compared him to Charles Johnson a couple months ago and the response was that, like Charles Johnson, he's being projected into the first round based on supposed combine numbers and that, like Johnson, he would fall into the 3rd if the numbers didn't show up.

Well lo and behold, he was nothing special at the combine and yet he's still carrying a 1st round grade

but he didn't work out at the combine.

hahaha oh boy, thats a knee slapper.

Anyways, i think he's a door hinge 1st. Dont know much about him, but injuries are never good when stock comes to mind, and he wasnt that up there before that

themaninblack
03-23-2008, 10:27 PM
i havent seen a great deal of him per se but from what i have seen that comparision between merling and charles johnson is a pretty good one.

SchizophrenicBatman
03-23-2008, 10:42 PM
but he didn't work out at the combine.

Yeaaa....well, I suppose that's why he wasn't very impressive, eh?

Alright, I got egg on my face for that one and I'll admit it. He DID do the bench as one guy said, and 17 reps really doesn't pop your eyes out for someone who's more of a run stopper than a speed guy. Of course, I guess you could find a way to blame that on the groin injury.

Also, the DT rumors and pushing his weight up to 290 start making him sound more like Carriker than Johnson. Not sure that excites me much either, fwiw...

BamaFalcon59
03-23-2008, 10:49 PM
Yeaaa....well, I suppose that's why he wasn't very impressive, eh?

Alright, I got egg on my face for that one and I'll admit it. He DID do the bench as one guy said, and 17 reps really doesn't pop your eyes out for someone who's more of a run stopper than a speed guy. Of course, I guess you could find a way to blame that on the groin injury.

Also, the DT rumors and pushing his weight up to 290 start making him sound more like Carriker than Johnson. Not sure that excites me much either, fwiw...

Maybe, considering he is touted as an 'athletic, big defensive end', which are the rage in the National Football League now adays. Personally, I will take John Abraham over Phillip Merling, explosion is lost at higher weights unless it is an elite athlete such as Julius Peppers or Mario Williams. Most defensive ends are priced and ranked on their ability to get to the quarterback, not on stopping the run.

toonsterwu
03-23-2008, 10:56 PM
I think that type of versatility could make him more valuable to some teams. The Titans used KVB inside some, and he had some success. Odom was used there some, but he didn't do much. They never played an end inside a lot that I can remember, but it's a copy cat league and how Tuck was used sure looks like a good way to win. The Titans thrived a lot on pass rush last year, but they'll need a bit of help now, that's why I'm interested in Merling a bit. Maybe a very different type of player than say Groves, but maybe one who can still make plays one way or another.

Although his stock has certainly dropped, Gillberry is a guy who could make plays playing inside as well.

Gilberry is this year's Mkristo Bruce for me in that, both guys are good football players with good instincts, but their measurables push them late, or undrafted.

There have been some comparisons to Tuck that's been made. It's an intriguing one, although I think, coming out, Merling played with a bit more power. There's been some comparisons made to Pryce, but comparatively, at the same point, I think Merling's a bit quicker. I don't now if I can think of a great straight comparison. A young Phillip Daniels is a thought that's passed my mind, and while there's a lot of things that work with that comparison, I'm not sure I love it.

Merling is versatile, though. With his edge quickness, he can fit in a t2. He can be a Jarvis Green type 3-4 DE right now, and with more weight, he could probably be a regular starter. The option of sliding in fulltime is out there if he gets more power, particularly lower body.

toonsterwu
03-23-2008, 10:58 PM
Yeaaa....well, I suppose that's why he wasn't very impressive, eh?

Alright, I got egg on my face for that one and I'll admit it. He DID do the bench as one guy said, and 17 reps really doesn't pop your eyes out for someone who's more of a run stopper than a speed guy. Of course, I guess you could find a way to blame that on the groin injury.

Also, the DT rumors and pushing his weight up to 290 start making him sound more like Carriker than Johnson. Not sure that excites me much either, fwiw...

OOC, why wouldn't Carriker excite you? He had a solid enough first year, and his versatility gives the DL a lot of options, and for Haslett, that must be a small joy. Although I will say that I think Carriker is more of a run stopper than Merling, and that Merling is a better edge pass rusher than Carriker (and better than given credit for in general).

SchizophrenicBatman
03-23-2008, 11:38 PM
Has more to do with the belief that I think Carriker was overdrafted as well. I guess it goes back to the impact thing that's come up before with regards to solid overall game vs pass rusher. If you take a run stopper and stick him at LDE (or even a tackle spot) and let him be, fine. If you move him around you're basically making him a rotation guy, and that's not for a high 1st rounder.

Versatility is something, though I'm not sure how much of a benefit it is. The only guy I can think of who's a real benefit like this is the aforementioned Tuck, who I've liked for a long time, but regardless he's really just a DE playing out of position on a team loaded with them. I may be a bit jaded here, however, as the Panthers have built their OLine for years on versatility and all it's gotten them is a host of mediocrity. Granted, that's a different set of positions all together, but it's still the trenches.

I see what BF59 is getting at as well - trying to fit a guy who looks like a prototype into something more than he is (Campbell is a prime example of this). However, that's not what my original thought was here, and whether that's what's going on is something NFL scouts will have to determine. Toonster seems to think there's more to him than his size, and that is worth considering for sure. I haven't actually taken an in depth look on Merling as a player - again, only haven't seem him pop out to me when he's somewhat local.

If a 3-4 team grabs him, puts 15 pounds on him and turns him into Jarvis Green, you have something. I can see first round value there. Not sure I see it if he goes to a 4-3 squad as a DE/DT hybrid who has spurts of pressure. You can find those guys all over the place. Perhaps it'd be best if there was a scale to rate pass rush. A 10 is Freeney at his peak, a 0 is Tyler Brayton. Is Merling currently closer to a 2 or a 5? I suppose that's the answer everyone wants

Looking for a comparable past a couple guys with a year's experience, is his upside more like a Justin Smith? I'd take that if you gave it to me, but I wouldn't be excited about it - nor would I want to pay out a contract like the one Smith just got.

toonsterwu
03-24-2008, 12:57 AM
Just to be clear, I think he could be a Jarvis Green type 3-4 end right now (Green runs in the 280's, and Merling was in the upper 270's, low 280's). I think with additional weight, and more specifically, additional strength/power, he could be a much better 3-4 DE fit than Green.

It's really hard to quantify anything to a scale, let alone pass rushing ability. That said, based on your 0-10 standard, I'd say he's probably a 6 right now, with the upside to perhaps be a 8. He plays fast. Everyone wants to see the huge numbers, partly because they did produce Gaines Adams the year before. But Phillip was used far differently from Gaines, who was used much like a 3-4 OLB in some respects, whereas the role responsibilities for Phillip varied depending on whether or not he was inside or outside. Whether or not he's the ridiculous athlete that has been rumored, only a workout can tell, although that might not happen.

I think he's got better upside than Justin Smith coming out. As noted, the Tuck comparison has been used, along with Pryce, but that's a bit further back in time. I'm cycling through the lists of recent ends to see if I can see a good comp (value and skillset) at a similar point of reference (outside of names already used in this thread). Let's see, perhaps a more athletic Tamba Hali? Eh, not the best. A bigger, more athletic Erasmus James, with more upside on the frame? Not a great comp when you have to put in so many conditions. A more athletic Kenechi Udeze might be alright. A more athletic Antwan Odom might be a thought. I'll cycle through some more names later.

adamprez2003
03-24-2008, 01:17 AM
yeah exactly. He's less Athletic Chris Long without the exceptional motor. His motor is top notch

adamprez2003
03-24-2008, 01:22 AM
BTW Merling has a very good inside spin move. One of the better ones you'll see. I think he needs to add a couple of moves to his pass rush whch he most certainly will in the pros so I wouldnt completely write off his pass rush ability just yet. Clearly he's a beast aginst the run but I think he'll surprise alot of people with his pass rush ability by the 2nd year of his pro career

JT Jag
03-25-2008, 09:58 AM
BTW Merling has a very good inside spin move. One of the better ones you'll see. I think he needs to add a couple of moves to his pass rush whch he most certainly will in the pros so I wouldnt completely write off his pass rush ability just yet. Clearly he's a beast aginst the run but I think he'll surprise alot of people with his pass rush ability by the 2nd year of his pro careerIf he already has a pretty polished "Freeney Spin", he'll only need to develop one or two counter-moves to that.

Freeney himself, of course, really only uses two types of rush techniques: The speed rush and swim to the outside, and the spin and rip to the inside. They compliment each other perfectly.

Merling needs to develop a decent move that bursts to the outside, and a bull rush to create space to set up either of the primary two moves.