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OTcoach
03-23-2008, 08:36 PM
Is it just me or is Andre Woodson getting the short end of the stick? All year he was a top 3 QB prospect and he did really well with an average team in a really tough conference. Yes by all accounts he had a bad SR bowl and hasn't done much since then but does one bad week with strange coaches and players warrant him slipping from a possible 1st round franchise QB to the 2nd or 3rd round or lower? Most of the game tape I have has him making NFL style throws against top level competition. This isn't Ken Dorsey's Miami roster. It's Kentucky and he got them to win with his arm, legs and leadership. I think this guy is going to make some GM's kick themselves for passing on him simply because he had one bad week in Mobile.

toonsterwu
03-23-2008, 08:53 PM
I'm a huge fan of Woodson's, but the problem is, mechanical concerns are always a big indicator of not living up to potential. He needs to go to a situation where there is time for him to sit back and learn, and perhaps retool those mechanics. It could be a 2 or 3 year process, and most teams aren't willing to make said move that early.

He's probably a 3rd/4th prospect as of now, which sounds awful, but the whole of the QB class isn't that great. Thus, he is still probably a top 5 or 6 QB right now, so he hasn't dramatically fallen off in terms of pure QB rankings.

BeerBaron
03-23-2008, 08:57 PM
ive always been a fan of woodson and out of the games i saw from some of the top QBs - ryan, brohm, henne, woodson, brennan - i liked woodson the most.

i actually called my house to tell my brother to turn on the kentucky - LSU game when it started shaping up to be a good one and i told him to watch woodson because i thought hed be something special one day....

and i still prefer him over any of those other QBs i listed. brohm is #2 but id hardly even touch the other guys given a choice.....

DonWoods33
03-23-2008, 09:03 PM
I agree with you. This guy is getting way over-analyzed. The dude took flippin' Kentucky: Kentucky! to their best years in decades, and now he just can't cut the mustard at 6'5" 230. I do have an issue with him stinking up the Senior Bowl, but at least he had the guts to show up. Seriously though when has a throwing motion been that big a deal? Cunningham had a slow windup, Kosar a horrible throwing motion. Rivers has a bad technique. And yet they won games. If your good your good, and you work around your weaknesses and maximize your strengths.

SchizophrenicBatman
03-23-2008, 09:10 PM
People are overreacting because Byron Leftwich busted

The problem is, Woodson's delivery isn't as slow as Leftwich.

ThePudge
03-23-2008, 09:20 PM
Not sure where people are getting an "average" supporting cast. Sure, it wasn't USC's ultra-talented recruits in there, but the Wildcats had four other offensive players at the NFL Combine this year in TE Jacob Tamme, WR's Keenan Burton and Steve Johnson, and RB Rafael Little. He was a great college QB, don't get me wrong, but he did have a strong supporting cast on offense, he wasn't working alone.

BeerBaron
03-23-2008, 09:27 PM
Not sure where people are getting an "average" supporting cast. Sure, it wasn't USC's ultra-talented recruits in there, but the Wildcats had four other offensive players at the NFL Combine this year in TE Jacob Tamme, WR's Keenan Burton and Steve Johnson, and RB Rafael Little. He was a great college QB, don't get me wrong, but he did have a strong supporting cast on offense, he wasn't working alone.

i dont necessarily agree. those guys you listed are probably mid-round draft picks at best....

sure there are worse teams out there but those guys are hardly studs by any stretch of the imagination. i would call them average at best.

ThePudge
03-23-2008, 09:32 PM
i dont necessarily agree. those guys you listed are probably mid-round draft picks at best....

sure there are worse teams out there but those guys are hardly studs by any stretch of the imagination. i would call them average at best.

Average at best... hm...

Boston College's supporting cast was average at best, with perhaps one draftable prospect. Kentucky's was above average with four/five likely draft picks at skill positions. Not every team is USC or Ohio State, people have to understand that.

DraftKidWonder
03-23-2008, 09:35 PM
Ok, first as a guy that has defended Woodson ever since the Senior Bowl I have to say he had one of the best supporting casts in the nation and that is true. Second I've posted many threads on him and defending him. He has mechanical problems but that's why there are such as COACHES! He'll be a franchise QB with two things only:
1. A good O-Line
2. Good coaching

BeerBaron
03-23-2008, 09:52 PM
Put ryan and BC in kentucky's schedule and they dont even sniff a BCS game which they got close to in the weak ACC.

Ryan and his boys got to smoke a weak division as well as teams like notre dame, wake, army, umass, and bowling green. He got walloped for 56 minutes vs. VT the first time around and then lost to them pretty badly the 2nd time around. He even lost to an FSU squad that was in a down year and then lost to maryland to boot.

woodson and kentucky had a few weak games, as all teams do, at the start but then went on to beat louisville, the eventual national champion LSU, and they held their own vs. the defending champs in florida and took a strong tennessee team into 4 OTs. then they went on to beat the FSU team that ryan lost to.

ryan may have had the weaker team but they had the weaker competition too. I strongly believe Woodson had an extremely weak team compared to the average SEC team. and he held his own way better in that conference than ryan could have if you switched them around. ryans 19 picks in the ACC would translate to 25 or better against the defenses of that SEC....

i dont want to turn this into a "why i dont like matt ryan as a pro prospect" thread so ill stop now.....

i like woodson

PACKmanN
03-23-2008, 11:25 PM
If Woodson could succeed he has to be in the same situation as Rodgers was. That being said, he better hope the Seahawks draft him.

fenikz
03-24-2008, 12:42 AM
I was probably leading the Woodson bus starting towards middle of his 06' season, but through all of his workouts he hasn't done anything that makes him special with the right coaching and situation i still feel he can be a starter in the NFL but he needs a lot of work

Vince Mullins
03-26-2008, 09:20 PM
Not sure where people are getting an "average" supporting cast. Sure, it wasn't USC's ultra-talented recruits in there, but the Wildcats had four other offensive players at the NFL Combine this year in TE Jacob Tamme, WR's Keenan Burton and Steve Johnson, and RB Rafael Little. He was a great college QB, don't get me wrong, but he did have a strong supporting cast on offense, he wasn't working alone.

I am with you, he had a solid supporting cast and all of the skill players will get drafted. He has plenty of starts in the SEC which should be a solid predictor, but he stunk it up when asked to make NFL decisions in Mobile. He will make a good backup at best.

Maybe a nickel QB?

MidwayMonster31
03-26-2008, 09:59 PM
I was probably leading the Woodson bus starting towards middle of his 06' season, but through all of his workouts he hasn't done anything that makes him special with the right coaching and situation i still feel he can be a starter in the NFL but he needs a lot of workCoaching will be the most important factor for his success. This is a good assessment about him.
His football IQ is pretty bad for a quarterback and a lot of that was due to bad coaching in high school and in his first few years in Kentucky. The main thing that bothers me about him is that he is not decisive enough, this was shown when he took a lot of sacks and did not get rid of the ball. This is related to football IQ because he didn't know what to do in certain situations. The release can be fixed. I love his work ethic, charisma and leadership, but he will need a lot of work.

neko4
03-26-2008, 10:02 PM
I used to think Woodson reminded me of Big Ben. Now i get an Aaron Brooks feel, not sure why. I dont think he's as fast, but he does make some plays that made you say "Huh?". Like that one play where he lost like 10 yards in the senior bowl

SKim172
03-26-2008, 10:02 PM
Average at best... hm...

Boston College's supporting cast was average at best, with perhaps one draftable prospect. Kentucky's was above average with four/five likely draft picks at skill positions. Not every team is USC or Ohio State, people have to understand that.

5 receivers with 45 receptions or more. That's Boston College. One draftable prospect? Well, maybe they're just not pro-worthy receivers. Or maybe it's the fact that only 2 of those receivers will be graduating this season (expect the Ryan Purvis bandwagon in '09). But in any case, they have proven themselves to be solid college-level players. Ryan was not one man alone on the field out there.

How fair is it to these guys, anyway? Andre Challenger leads the team in receptions, playing in a strictly passing West Coast offense and everywhere he goes, he hears that he's not worthy of being drafted because Matt Ryan was his QB. Give the man his due - the guy knew how to play. The smart drafting teams will know to give him a look-over if they need a receiving back, a la Kevin Faulk.

Has anyone noticed that the longer the offseason goes on, the worse the quarterbacks get? I remember in the middle of the season people saying this might be the best QB crop in years, with Ryan, Brohm, Henne, Woodson, Booty, Brennan, Ainge, and Dixon and a whole crop of sleeper prospects. Now what's happened? Ryan has been elevated to the second coming of Christ, nearly all those sleeper prospects have been casually discarded (except Flacco and Johnson) and everyone else has seen their draft stock plummet, with Brohm and Henne fighting for first day status and Woodson, Booty, and Ainge hoping for early second day. Brennan and Dixon have disappeared completely. Pundits are now calling this the worst QB class in a decade, with Ryan a gift from God and everyone else a bust-in-waiting.

But I am not fooled. This is all hype and it's idiocy. Yes, all these prospects have major flaws - they'll need to be fixed. That's why most rookie QBs sit out their first few seasons. Woodson is still a first-day talent - all the good things that scouts said about him in the middle of the season is still relevant. He's got a powerful arm, excellent size, good vision and he's a leader who brought a losing program major success. Could his accuracy improve? Yes. Is his release unorthodox? Yes. But weren't these true back when Woodson was rated the #2 QB? Yes. Didn't the same scouts that criticize him now say that he could fix these parts of his game anyway? Yes.

For me, Woodson is still in the top of this class, which is still an excellent group. And Dixon and Brennan deserve to remain in the mix, as well as all the small-school prospects who've gotten left out. They have major flaws - some bigger than others - but all the good things people said about them during the season still apply.

I think it's an entirely unconscious effort of a significant chunk of the media that's fallen in love with a golden boy and is doing their best to elevate him to the level of godhood, while the other part is buying into it. It is my belief that given the chance, the talent in this group will ultimately prove itself to be one of the best QB classes in years.

But unlike the previous classes, they'll have to fight for it.

bored of education
03-26-2008, 10:08 PM
Im still very high on Woodson. I wouldnt mind KC looking at him really hard int he 3rd if they grab an OT inthe 1st. He has an odd release and motion but he is a gamer

BamaFalcon59
03-26-2008, 10:11 PM
I have other concerns besides the release and technical aspect of things. He floats way too many passes, and while he might have a nice distance arm his zip is not even above average, especially for a guy touted with a strong arm. His athleticism is also very overrated, due to the black QB thing. He is a below average athlete, average at best. And finally he made a lot of easy throws in college, many of his yards were from after the catch on simple screen passes. I did like his ability to tell when something would be open though, he audibled well at times in response to a defensive looks. Then again, sometimes he looks like he has no idea what he is doing.

BeerBaron
03-26-2008, 10:15 PM
well, im just going to say what ive always been thinking.

id gladly take him over any other QB in this draft to my team. i frickin loved the kid (the kid? hes older than me....) anyway, hes my favorite QB in this draft class....too bad the bears sent no one to his pro day. we'll probably end up with ******* henne

BBIB
03-27-2008, 08:41 PM
People are overreacting because Byron Leftwich busted

The problem is, Woodson's delivery isn't as slow as Leftwich.

Nor is he as injury prone. Funny how many people bring up that when Leftwich's biggest problem has been STAYING HEALTHY even in college!

His historic play in college is on a play he got hurt for crying out loud.

BBIB
03-27-2008, 08:44 PM
I am with you, he had a solid supporting cast and all of the skill players will get drafted. He has plenty of starts in the SEC which should be a solid predictor, but he stunk it up when asked to make NFL decisions in Mobile. He will make a good backup at best.

Maybe a nickel QB?

So his entire body of work and physical tools should be ignored because he didn't look great in one week in a Mike Martz offense that highlighted his weaknesses and masked his strengths?

This is the brilliant scouts logic that's been used lately to bring down Woodson which will benefit the team that steals him in the 2nd/3rd