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View Full Version : what's the knock on brian brohm?


swollja
03-24-2008, 11:09 PM
i remember a couple years ago people were talking about what a perfect qb prospect he was. then this year louiville threw quite a bit so it might have skewed his stats, but that shouldn't hurt him should it? what does he do bad?

and is he the bro of the xfl qb?

i'd love if the fins got him in round 2 and just let beck and him battle it out to start since the new regime didn't draft beck anyway. but he still deserves a fair shot.

cdub11
03-24-2008, 11:13 PM
brohm is my fav. qb in this years class

the negatives ive heard are ability to make all the throws and mobility

BeerBaron
03-24-2008, 11:17 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=4672&line=114428&spln=1

mobility shouldnt be that much of a concern after that.

like others have said, hes my fav. QB too. though i dont think he ceiling is superstar high. I think he would be a pro bowl caliber QB with good talent around him, someone like a matt hasselbeck or marc bulger. i dont think he'll ever be a guy who carries his team, but i like him more than ryan and a LOT more than say....chad henne

Cashmoney
03-24-2008, 11:17 PM
People will tell you he doesn't have great arm strength, he didn't make NFL throws in college, and they'll say he's not mobile and isn't a vocal team leader. I'd take him over "Nasty" Ice anyday though.

vidae
03-24-2008, 11:21 PM
Weren't people saying he'd be the first QB taken last year if he declared for the draft? He had better stats this year than last. I think the problem is that Louisville didn't do too well this year, finishing 6-6 and not qualifying for a bowl game.

He's my favorite QB to come out this year. I'd rather the Chiefs take him at 5 than Ryan.

BeerBaron
03-24-2008, 11:22 PM
dammit now where are all you anti-ryan people when im in a discussion arguing against ryan? i always feel like im the only person not deepthroating ryan during those.....

Scott Wright
03-24-2008, 11:24 PM
My biggest problem with him is the durability.

With that said he is definitely suffering from the same type of over-analysis that Matt Leinart and Brady Quinn went through. In my mind he isn't a Top 10 pick but he is definitely a first rounder. The problem is if he gets past the first half of round one who needs a quarterback. And that isn't a rhetorical question... Please let me know where he would fit between #17 and #31 barring a trade.

Cashmoney
03-24-2008, 11:24 PM
I'm anti-ryan even though my teams not looking to draft a QB.

brat316
03-24-2008, 11:25 PM
Weren't people saying he'd be the first QB taken last year if he declared for the draft? He had better stats this year than last. I think the problem is that Louisville didn't do too well this year, finishing 6-6 and not qualifying for a bowl game.

He's my favorite QB to come out this year. I'd rather the Chiefs take him at 5 than Ryan.

Well that was untill the emergence of Ryan, and the fact that he couldn't carry the team on his back to a better record. He would have a better shot at being #2 qb had he preformed well this year. Stats don't all ways mean great things, its more mechanics and accuracy.

vidae
03-24-2008, 11:26 PM
Please let me know where he would fit between #17 and #31 barring a trade.

What about Tampa Bay? Do they feel Chris Simms will be the starter once Jeff Garcia retires? He's 38.

I agree with you, I don't think he goes anywhere towards the latter half of the first round, but that's the only team I could maybe see wanting a first round signal caller. Of course, if you meant someone to start this year you're absolutely right, he will probably fall to round 2. :)

Cashmoney
03-24-2008, 11:27 PM
My biggest problem with him is the durability.

With that said he is definitely suffering from the same type of over-analysis that Matt Leinart and Brady Quinn went through. In my mind he isn't a Top 10 pick but he is definitely a first rounder. The problem is if he gets past the first half of round one who needs a quarterback. And that isn't a rhetorical question... Please let me know where he would fit between #17 and #31 barring a trade.

All slim chances but maybe the Vikings, Bucs, or 49ers if they're gonna be done with Alex Smith after this season.

BeerBaron
03-24-2008, 11:27 PM
tampa maybe like vidae said but theyve got more QBs already on their roster than......well i cant think of a good comparison but they have more quarterbacks than any nfl team really needs

neko4
03-24-2008, 11:31 PM
I think Tampa will wait and get either Booty or Johnson
As much as i like Brohm, he is destined for round 2
Unless ATL does the smart thing and picks him instead of Ryan if Long is off the board

BeerBaron
03-24-2008, 11:32 PM
I think Tampa will wait and get either Booty or Johnson
As much as i like Brohm, he is destined for round 2
Unless ATL does the smart thing and picks him instead of Ryan if Long is off the board

yeah, JJ has gruden written all over him. I think he makes one hell of a WCO QB someday

brat316
03-24-2008, 11:37 PM
Well like the Eagles last year one of the teams are going to trade out of the first into the second with the Falcons and thus the Falcons are going to get a new qb.

With not trades I would say maybe the Viks finally give up, Bears take a chance on him in second.

swollja
03-24-2008, 11:51 PM
no way he slips past the falcons in rnd 2 if they dont take a qb rnd 1

swollja
03-24-2008, 11:52 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=4672&line=114428&spln=1

mobility shouldnt be that much of a concern after that.

like others have said, hes my fav. QB too. though i dont think he ceiling is superstar high. I think he would be a pro bowl caliber QB with good talent around him, someone like a matt hasselbeck or marc bulger. i dont think he'll ever be a guy who carries his team, but i like him more than ryan and a LOT more than say....chad henne

wow unexpected

do you have any other UL pro day results? i wanna know about myles.

rockio42
03-25-2008, 01:04 AM
tampa maybe like vidae said but theyve got more QBs already on their roster than......well i cant think of a good comparison but they have more quarterbacks than any nfl team really needs

than travis henry has children

Billingsley26
03-25-2008, 01:07 AM
I am also anti Matt Ryan. Big time.

brat316
03-25-2008, 01:17 AM
I don't know for some reason i am not into the draft this year as I was the past 2 years. I just don't really like any players this year. No one where i researched the hell out of them.

kwilk103
03-25-2008, 01:33 AM
all i know, is he tore up wvu for 3 years

im glad hes gone

Race for the Heisman
03-25-2008, 05:44 PM
I think with all their seconds the Falcons might actually trade back into the first to make sure he doesn't go to Miami.

Babylon
03-25-2008, 06:57 PM
My biggest problem with him is the durability.

With that said he is definitely suffering from the same type of over-analysis that Matt Leinart and Brady Quinn went through. In my mind he isn't a Top 10 pick but he is definitely a first rounder. The problem is if he gets past the first half of round one who needs a quarterback. And that isn't a rhetorical question... Please let me know where he would fit between #17 and #31 barring a trade.


Bears
Lions
Vikings
Bucs

He reminds me of Jim Kelley.

keylime_5
03-25-2008, 07:36 PM
He's not overly mobile, has had injuries, played in an offense against competition that inflated his production, doesn't have a super great arm, and is just not plain good enough to be a top half of round 1 pick as a franchise QB. There are some darn good players in the first round and you have to be among their level to be drafted in the first round this year if you are a QB, and so far the only guy who fitst that bill this year is Matt Ryan. Brohm could be a good late 1 or early round 2 pick as a QB of the future. I think he, Flacco, and Henne all have a great argument for who should be the 2nd QB picked, and I would not be surprised at all to see any one of those guys be the 2nd QB off the board next month.

scottyboy
03-25-2008, 07:38 PM
He's a big stinky lame doo-doo head who sucks, when to Loserville, kisses little boys and is bad

etk
03-25-2008, 07:41 PM
I hate saying things like this....it's one of my pet peeves, but I have to: Tampa will not draft any QBs this year. We have Garcia, Griese, Simms, McCown, Gradkowski and technically Plummer. Gruden doesn't like drafting QBs as it is, but in order to fit a rookie QB on the roster we will have to cut or trade 3 of the first 5. Not happening no matter how much mock makers love to unload QBs on us for whatever reason.

Brohm does everything well. He doesn't have any glaring weaknesses like Ryan does, but oh well. Some idiot team will waste a top-8 pick on Ryan, and some lucky team will land Brohm in the late 1st or early 2nd.

Ware_HITStick
03-25-2008, 07:42 PM
He's a big stinky lame doo-doo head who sucks, when to Loserville, kisses little boys and is bad

that made me lawl

Comphockey7
03-25-2008, 07:56 PM
What about the Vikings?

They popped up in my head when Scott said teams between 17-31 who need a qb. Can Jackson get the job done?

I think brohm is knocked to hard. I like the Bulger, Hasselbeck comparison.

Big_Pete
03-25-2008, 10:33 PM
I could see a team trading up into the later part of the first round for Brian Brohm

SKim172
03-25-2008, 10:39 PM
He's not overly mobile, has had injuries, played in an offense against competition that inflated his production, doesn't have a super great arm, and is just not plain good enough to be a top half of round 1 pick as a franchise QB.

Okay, see, this is the one knock that I simply don't understand. This claim, that Brohm is a system QB who played in an offense that he was used to, and that inflated his stats, usually followed by a claim that Brohm was surrounded by superstars.

First , Brohm played in two offenses, coached by two head coaches. Kragthorpe installed a spread-type passing offense, but Petrino ran a standard pro-style offense at Louisville during three of Brohm's years. Sure, it was a pass-oriented offense, but they ran plenty of power I's and two tight-end sets.

Does anyone remember Michael Bush, the once-stud RB who pounded the rock for Louisville pretty steadily In fact, until 2007, Brohm never threw for more than 313 attempts a season. Doesn't really scream "Colt Brennan."

Even under Kragthorpe, when Louisville got its first true passing system, Brohm only threw 473 passes. Doesn't beat Brennan's 510. Or Graham Harrell's astounding 713.

Or, for that matter, Matt Ryan's 654 attempts, the second-highest in the nation.

And anyone who thinks Brohm played with talent around him obviously doesn't keep track of Big East football.

Because Big East fans know: no BCS team with any sort of talent loses to Syracuse.

We're talking a Cardinal defense that allowed 554 yards of offense to Middle Tennessee State, a nonexistent running game, and an offensive line that was made of Swiss cheese. Brohm got beat up and knocked around on every single play.

Now consider the fact that Brohm had two receivers put up more than 45 receptions all season: Harry Douglas and Gary Barnidge. Douglas missed two games and had a nagging injury for most of the season. Mario Urrutia entered some sort of weird slump, dropping more passes than catching them, never getting open - and he missed games due to injury as well. In fact, injuries and suspensions took out a good chunk of the receiving corps, meaning at times, Louisville was starting with their #3/#4/#5 receivers. And the offense somehow still ranked 4th in the nation in passing yardage.

Matt Ryan, by the way, played for a Boston College team that had, according to scouts, absolutely no talent, but had five separate receivers who caught 45 passes or more the entire season.

The point? Brohm doesn't deserve a system QB label. Brohm has played for two separate head coaches, for two different offenses, with very different outcomes. He's quarterbacked a Cinderella team-turned-champion and a championship contender-turned-Big East joke. He's had a head coach quit on him, he's lost starters on his team to injury, to suspension, he's endured who-knows how many locker-room quarrels.

He's endured a lot. But he's been rock-solid throughout it all. Passing efficiency, accuracy percentage, it's been consistent in every season.

Is he mobile? Better than you think, but not as good as you hope. Can he resist injury? Yes - but he still gets injured.

Is he a leader? Louisville played Rutgers in its season finale. No bowl bid, really nothing to play for, once-packed stadium nearly empty. RU jumped out 21-3. But Brohm kept them in the game and eventually, brought them back to win it from a 17-point deficit in the 4th quarter. (That one still hurts. :()

Should you expect an impact All-Pro in his rookie season? Maybe a little too much to hope for.

But, can you reasonably project him to be a guy who can play in your offense, learn your playbook and be a consistent starter from week-to-week, no matter who he plays with or who he's playing against? Yes. And in time, he might eventually become that Pro Bowl player you're looking for.


Now compare him to Matt Ryan. Ryan had 654 pass attempts the entire season - the second highest in the country. Even taking into account that BC played 14 games, it still means an average of 47 passes a game, compared to about 39 for Brohm and Brennan.

And I'd really like people to shut the h*ll up about how Ryan had no talent around him and that's why his stats are so poor and that's why he has 19 interceptions. I see, BC has no receivers with talent, just 5 guys who catch 45 passes a season. I suppose Ryan threw such perfect passes, the receivers didn't need to try to catch them, is that the argument here? I don't care what Mayock or McShay has to say about the subject - you cannot discount 19 interceptions, for any reason.

31 touchdowns is impressive, and you can't discount those, either.

On the other hand, Brian Brohm tossed 30 TDs himself, playing two games less and throwing 180 fewer passes. And 24 career picks is a whole lot less than 37.

So why is his stock plummeting?

Not for the right reasons.

America
03-25-2008, 10:40 PM
My biggest problem with him is the durability.

With that said he is definitely suffering from the same type of over-analysis that Matt Leinart and Brady Quinn went through. In my mind he isn't a Top 10 pick but he is definitely a first rounder. The problem is if he gets past the first half of round one who needs a quarterback. And that isn't a rhetorical question... Please let me know where he would fit between #17 and #31 barring a trade.

I think Tampa is a possibility, or at least, if we're talking between 17 and 31, it's the most likely. Gruden loves getting QBs. The '09 crop of QBs is awful if Tebow and Stafford stay, so the Buccs should grab one now. Brohm fits their WCO and Garcia can't stay around that much longer, so give Brohm maybe a year and a half max to learn I'd say and hand over the reins to Brohm.

falconsrule
03-25-2008, 10:59 PM
There have been some reports that Atlanta has Brohm over Matt Ryan on their draft board so if we pass on Matt Ryan at 3 I think we trade back into the 1st with SD.

ThePudge
03-25-2008, 11:12 PM
My biggest problem with him is the durability.

With that said he is definitely suffering from the same type of over-analysis that Matt Leinart and Brady Quinn went through. In my mind he isn't a Top 10 pick but he is definitely a first rounder. The problem is if he gets past the first half of round one who needs a quarterback. And that isn't a rhetorical question... Please let me know where he would fit between #17 and #31 barring a trade.

I definitely agree with you on that second part, between 17 and 31 I don't see any team that needs help at the QB position or would be willing to address the need in the first round. I have him ranked a bit below where you have him ranked though.

Personally, the durability issue is big for me, but the biggest problem that I have with him is his lack of leadership qualities. Brohm lacks the skills necessary as a vocal leader, which I believe are quite important. He is, obviously, a high-character player, but I'm not sure if he's got the presence on the field or in the locker room to rally those around him. The quiet QB doesn't really work for me, especially in pass-heavy offenses in which quarterbacks are asked to do so much. Also, don't buy into that 4.61 too much people, he really does not play to that speed and is not particularly threatening outside the pocket. His 40 time will help him if anything, but I wouldn't put too much weight in to it if I were you or an NFL scout.

I think Brohm will fall to the Second Round, though I'd still list him as a Mid-Late First Round value.

BamaFalcon59
03-25-2008, 11:23 PM
I hate saying things like this....it's one of my pet peeves, but I have to: Tampa will not draft any QBs this year. We have Garcia, Griese, Simms, McCown, Gradkowski and technically Plummer. Gruden doesn't like drafting QBs as it is, but in order to fit a rookie QB on the roster we will have to cut or trade 3 of the first 5. Not happening no matter how much mock makers love to unload QBs on us for whatever reason.

Brohm does everything well. He doesn't have any glaring weaknesses like Ryan does, but oh well. Some idiot team will waste a top-8 pick on Ryan, and some lucky team will land Brohm in the late 1st or early 2nd.

RaShaun Woods had no negatives, either. Not saying Brohm won't be good, but sometimes it is more about what you do well than what you do poorly.

FizzyFalcons
03-25-2008, 11:27 PM
As much as i like Brohm, he is destined for round 2
Unless ATL does the smart thing and picks him instead of Ryan if Long is off the board

Or ATL does the smart thing and drafts him in Rd 2.

BamaFalcon59
03-25-2008, 11:31 PM
As far as quarterback and the Falcons, I think these are the options, in order of likliness.

Round 2 (a): Joe Flacco
Round 2 (a-c): Chad Henne
Round 1: Matt Ryan
Trade up, round 1: Brian Brohm
Trade up, round 1: Joe Flacco

I think Flacco will be the highest QB on our board come round two, Brohm will get selected on being the best player available. If Brohm is there it is probably between him and Flacco, with Chad Henne having an outside chance.

BamaFalcon59
03-25-2008, 11:31 PM
Also, I wonder what the odds are that Atlanta takes bad value for pick three overall, and takes Dallas's two first rounders, a third rounder, and a future second rounder or something of that nature. I would like that move.

etk
03-26-2008, 01:48 PM
RaShaun Woods had no negatives, either. Not saying Brohm won't be good, but sometimes it is more about what you do well than what you do poorly.

I agree with your logic at most positions, but not QB. At QB you want someone who's solid and reliable that does many things well rather than one that is great at one but bad at another (JaMarcus Russell, Chad Pennington).