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luee
03-25-2008, 05:13 PM
Not on drafts. Reese blew up the draft and Giants won title. More of a comeback award.

Packers' Thompson named top NFL GM
3/25/2008 9:53 am

Ted Thompson of the Green Bay Packers was selected the general manager of the year in a poll of fellow GMs and other NFL executives conducted by The Sporting News.

Thompson received 19 votes, beating out Giants' general manager Jerry Reese, who received nine. Ten other NFL executives received at least one vote.

In his third season at the helm, Thompson oversaw a team that went 13-3, winning the NFC North Division and advancing to the league championship game.

"Ted understands every aspect of how an organization works. That's why he was able to put together a winning team so quickly," Packers former general manager Ron Wolf said.

etk
03-25-2008, 05:16 PM
Two Words: Bruce Allen. should die a slow and painful death

Pacific
03-25-2008, 05:20 PM
Not on drafts. Reese blew up the draft and Giants won title. More of a comeback award.

Packers' Thompson named top NFL GM
3/25/2008 9:53 am

Ted Thompson of the Green Bay Packers was selected the general manager of the year in a poll of fellow GMs and other NFL executives conducted by The Sporting News.

Thompson received 19 votes, beating out Giants' general manager Jerry Reese, who received nine. Ten other NFL executives received at least one vote.

In his third season at the helm, Thompson oversaw a team that went 13-3, winning the NFC North Division and advancing to the league championship game.

"Ted understands every aspect of how an organization works. That's why he was able to put together a winning team so quickly," Packers former general manager Ron Wolf said.

If he's not the best in drafting, then why did he win? He doesn't spend on free agents. Ted has drafted successfully in every year he has been here, finding gems. Yes, I know that the Giants rookies played a part in their SB win, but I think Eli, Strahan, Osi, Plax, etc. were the main reason they won. Those were all players Reese had nothing to do with. Ted built his team from scratch and led them to the NFC championship in three years. He is definitely the best GM.

neko4
03-25-2008, 05:33 PM
yeah, TT had a couple good FA siginings (Woodson, Pickett)
Thats about it. Drafting has been almost picture perfect
Draftees who have started:
Hawk
Jennings
Jones
Colledge
Spitz
Collins
Moll
Hodge
Jackson
Wynn
Jolly
Cole

And he traded for Grant
Picked up Bigby and Donald Lee i believe
Found Ruvell Martin and got Koren Robinson back in the league and out of jail

bored of education
03-25-2008, 05:36 PM
One words: CarlPetersonSUCKS

scottyboy
03-25-2008, 05:40 PM
well, this was Reese's first year being fully in charge. The Packers probably had the bigger turn-around season as well.

But Reese and the Giants easily had the best draft considering the output last year from rookies

neko4
03-25-2008, 05:40 PM
One words: CarlPetersonSUCKS
he pointed at my uncle

RagingColt
03-25-2008, 06:27 PM
I see no problmes with Thompson winning this year. If Reese has another good draft, then he should be the top pic. I think Polian has won at least three times himself.

bearsfan_51
03-25-2008, 06:35 PM
Is he the best GM? No. That's Bill Polian. Ted Thompson didn't draft Favre, and unless Rodgers turns into Favre, he can never put that notch on his belt.

But did he deserve the award this year? Yeah I think that's fair. This year's Giants team had Acorsi's fingerprints all over it.

BamaFalcon59
03-25-2008, 06:36 PM
Bill Polian. Simply amazing at retaining his top players, making no names look good, and drafting for success.

But he has won before, so that is the reason he did not win I guess.

Thunder&Lightning
03-25-2008, 06:37 PM
AJ SMith gotta be up there.

Addict
03-25-2008, 06:38 PM
No love for Millen?

Nitschke-Hawk
03-25-2008, 06:43 PM
Ted Thompson is getting there. He's probably been the 2nd best drafter since he started, after Bill Polian.

bearsfan_51
03-25-2008, 07:01 PM
Ted Thompson is getting there. He's probably been the 2nd best drafter since he started, after Bill Polian.
That's far too small of a sample size. Not to mention that Thompson was more often than not picking in the top half of the draft. It's easier to have good drafts when you have bad teams, and Favre.

neko4
03-25-2008, 07:02 PM
what, I thought Favre was washed up?

bearsfan_51
03-25-2008, 07:07 PM
what, I thought Favre was washed up?

Oh I've already said that I sold Favre far too short. He actually was washed up at the end of Mike Sherman's reign. Mike McCarthy, as terrible as his plan against the Giants was, doesn't get nearly enough credit for getting Favre to play within his limits again. It really reinvigorated his career.

I still think Rodgers has a better chance of beating the Bears next year than Favre would have, however.

scottyboy
03-25-2008, 07:19 PM
This year's Giants team had Acorsi's fingerprints all over it.


shhh don't tell EAcantdraft, cuz like Accorsi sucks and all his picks were reaches and busts *rolls eyes*

but you're right, this was mainly EA's team, with more maturation, especially of Eli

neko4
03-25-2008, 07:20 PM
where is EAcantdraft?
banned?

Gatz
03-25-2008, 07:22 PM
It's definitely polian... finds guys who fit the system

Nitschke-Hawk
03-25-2008, 07:23 PM
That's far too small of a sample size. Not to mention that Thompson was more often than not picking in the top half of the draft. It's easier to have good drafts when you have bad teams, and Favre.

He's had 3 drafts. I said he was the 2nd best drafter over the last 3 years. Yes it's too small to determine if he's the overall best GM in the NFL. But like I stated 3 years is 3 years. I didn't imply that because he's been the 2nd best drafter over the last 3 years that he is the best or 2nd best GM overall. But if he continues on this pace he will be there soon.

BaLLiN
03-25-2008, 07:29 PM
where is EAcantdraft?
banned?

haven't seen him in forever....

Reese did do a good job though brining in guys through FA for little price and making big impacts. Also our draft was phenomenal. Reese shouldve gotten a little more than 9 votes at least

TitleTown088
03-25-2008, 07:36 PM
Absofruitly. The white wizard is busting out to the world baby.

A Perfect Score
03-25-2008, 07:41 PM
if we were having this discussion a few years ago, the ozzie newsome would most surely be in this discussion...that is before kyle boller truly busted and michal clayton tooka big step backward...although i still say that when push comes to shoove, he hits on his picks more then 90% of teh GMs in the league.

bigbluedefense
03-25-2008, 08:13 PM
Is he the best GM? No. That's Bill Polian. Ted Thompson didn't draft Favre, and unless Rodgers turns into Favre, he can never put that notch on his belt.

But did he deserve the award this year? Yeah I think that's fair. This year's Giants team had Acorsi's fingerprints all over it.

Both Accorsi's and Reese's. The problem with Accorsi was he was too active in FA, and often kept around talent or drafted talent that was injury prone. Reese got rid of all our cancers, and injury prone guys and drafted guys that fit our system.

Thats another thing Accorsi never did, Accorsi didn't draft guys into a system, he just drafted whoever he thought was good. Reese specifically targets talent that is maximized under the systems theyre being drafted into: examples being Ross, Alford, Smith, and Bradshaw.

I don't disagree with Thompson getting the nod, theres a lot of good GMs in this league. Reese could very well be a one year wonder for all we know.

neko4
03-25-2008, 08:43 PM
if the G-men go into the playoffs next year, then reese should get it
if in 2 years the fins sniff the playoffs, parcells should get it

DawgBone
03-25-2008, 09:11 PM
IMO Phil Savage. In 3-4 years he took the very worste team in the NFL to possibly top 5 in the hard AFC.

Everyone remembers some of our horrible draft picks. Free agents despite us having money, refused to play here.

We get the top free agents now, great pro bowl quality draft picks. Hes unbeleavable at getting players as undrafted FA's getting Cribbs and Bodden of late. He was also in charge of bringing in and having faith in Derek Anderson.

He played a huge part in the Ravens superbowl and the solid teams they had and brought the same style to Cleveland.

Ted Thomas deserved to win, and I also like AJ Smith, but Phil easily did the most with less.

We didnt have a simgle pro bowler for a span of about 5-6 years, and we had 6 this year.

The Browns could have around 9 pro bowl players this year if everyone plays up to par.
Derek Anderson
Braylon Edwards
Kellen Winslow
Lawrence Vickers (without Lorenzo Neal Vickers is a near lock)
Joe Thomas
Eric Steinbach (has made 2 before)
Josh Cribbs
Shaun Rogers (has made 2 before)
Kamerion Wimbley

Its just nasty what Phil Savage has done with the talent level of this team and I didnt even include the solid players like...
Jamal Lewis
Donte Stallworth
Corey Williams
Sean Jones
Eric Wright
Andra Davis
Dqwell Jackson
Brodney Poole
Kevin Shaffer
Hank Fraley
Joe Jurivicius
Brady Quinn

THis team is going to be pretty nasty. He has also brought an unbelievable coaching staff in from the horrid Butch Davis years.

His been credited for genius salary cap meneuvers that have since been picked up by teams all around the league.

Who would have thought 3 years ago when he took over for the Browns we would be talking deep playoff runs? If this team was in the NFC they could easily be considered the 2nd best team by more than one guru.

Before Phil Savage/after Phil Savage
Tim Couch - Derek Anderson
William Green - Jamal Lewis
Terrell Smith - Lawrence Vickers
Kevin Johnson - Braylon Edwards
Quincy Morgan - Donte Stallworth
Dennis Northcutt - Joe Jurivicius
LJ Sheldon - Joe THomas
Joe Andruzzi - Eric Steinbach
Jeff Faine - Hank Fraley
Cosey Coleman - Lecharles Bentley (finally healthy)
Ross Verba - Kevin Shaffer

Kenard Land - Corey Williams
Gerard Warren - Shaun Rogers
Alvin McKinley - Shaun Smith
Ebinezer Eukuban - Robair Smith
Ben Taylor - Dqwell Jackson
Kevin Bentley - Kamerion Wimbley
Daylon Mccutcheon - Eric Wright
Michael Jamison - Brodney Poole
Michael Lehan - Sean Jones

Derek Frost - Dave Zastudil
Andre King - Josh Cribbs
anyone see a difference in 3 years?

RagingColt
03-25-2008, 10:46 PM
Polian could win the award every year as he annually finds players that fit his teams style of playing on both OFF and DEF. Think of all the recent gems he's found in rounds 3-7.

Here's a list of players drafted in the 3rd round or later since Polian has been in Indy:

2007- LB Clint Session, DT Keyunta Dawson, DT Quin Pitcock
2006- LB Freddie Keiaho, S Antone Bethea
2005- G Dylan Gandy, LB Tyjuan Hagler
2004- Jason David, Jake Scott
2003- Cato June, Robert Mathis
2002- David Thorton
2001- Ryan Diem, Rick DeMulling
1999- Hunter Smith

Players in bold are ones that I feel are impact players for the Colts and are starters. Look at the Colts first pick that they have had in the draft going back to 1997 when Polian arrived in Indy, the guy does not miss. Heres a list of the Colts 1st picks in the draft back to 1998:

Anthony Gonzalez, Joseph Addai, Marlin Jackson, Bob Sanders, Dallas Clark, Dwight Freeney, Reggie Wayne, Rob Morris, Edgerrin James, and Peyton Manning. Six of those ten players have played in at least once Pro Bowl. Stack this together, and you have the resume of the best GM in the NFL in the last ten years.

neko4
03-25-2008, 10:47 PM
Ted Thompson
Great or Greatest

bearsfan_51
03-25-2008, 10:52 PM
I think most people forgot what huge homers Browns fans are because they've been bad for so long.

I mean, I'm from Cleveland so I never forgot, but I think most did.

GB12
03-25-2008, 11:02 PM
IMO Phil Savage. In 3-4 years he took the very worste team in the NFL to possibly top 5 in the hard AFC.
He would have been fired if they were under .500.

PACKmanN
03-25-2008, 11:06 PM
So just by upgrading the talent, but not making the Playoffs is what makes him the GM of the year? please.... Thompson got us out of so much, from cap, age, talent, and coaching.

bearsfan_51
03-25-2008, 11:08 PM
But what about Hank Fraley!?!?

And again, you're both wrong, it's Bill Polian and/or Scott Pioli/Bellicheck.

The Packers haven't even made a Superbowl with TT and the Browns haven't even made the ******* playoffs. Back up the homer trains, neither guy is even in the top 5 yet. Savage isn't even sniffing it.

Unless we're just talking about this year, in which case TT is fine.

GB12
03-25-2008, 11:15 PM
Polian could win the award every year as he annually finds players that fit his teams style of playing on both OFF and DEF. Think of all the recent gems he's found in rounds 3-7.

Here's a list of players drafted in the 3rd round or later since Polian has been in Indy:

2007- LB Clint Session, DT Keyunta Dawson, DT Quin Pitcock
2006- LB Freddie Keiaho, S Antone Bethea
2005- G Dylan Gandy, LB Tyjuan Hagler
2004- Jason David, Jake Scott
2003- Cato June, Robert Mathis
2002- David Thorton
2001- Ryan Diem, Rick DeMulling
1999- Hunter Smith

Players in bold are ones that I feel are impact players for the Colts and are starters.
2007- James Jones, Aaron Rouse, Korey Hall, Mason Crosby, Deshawn Wynn
2006 - Jason Spitz, Tony Moll, Johnny Jolly,
2005 - Brady Poppinga, Junius Coston, Mike Montgomery, Will Whittiker

umphrey
03-25-2008, 11:17 PM
But what about Hank Fraley!?!?

And again, you're both wrong, it's Bill Polian and/or Scott Pioli/Bellicheck.

The Packers haven't even made a Superbowl with TT and the Browns haven't even made the ******* playoffs. Back up the homer trains, neither guy is even in the top 5 yet. Savage isn't even sniffing it.

Unless we're just talking about this year, in which case TT is fine.

Well I guess if you're looking heavily at track record that's true. Thompson hasn't been with the Packers for that long. Looking at the past couple years he's easily been top 5. He deserves a lot of credit for bringing in McCarthy as well, who was an instant success. A lot of his success this year is thanks to good past decisions.

bearsfan_51
03-25-2008, 11:21 PM
Well I guess if you're looking heavily at track record that's true. Thompson hasn't been with the Packers for that long. Looking at the past couple years he's easily been top 5. He deserves a lot of credit for bringing in McCarthy as well, who was an instant success. A lot of his success this year is thanks to good past decisions.

I'm not sure I even agree with that. The Packers have won a single playoff game in that span. There have been far more successful GM's and teams in that time period. Yes there has been a dramatic turnaround in the last 2 years in terms of wins, but nobody knows if that will be sustained, particularly with Favre gone. Let's not break out the annointing oil before it's actually earned.

vidae
03-25-2008, 11:40 PM
AJ Smith does some pretty remarkable things as a GM.

NY+Giants=NYG
03-26-2008, 09:19 AM
Both Accorsi's and Reese's. The problem with Accorsi was he was too active in FA, and often kept around talent or drafted talent that was injury prone. Reese got rid of all our cancers, and injury prone guys and drafted guys that fit our system.

Thats another thing Accorsi never did, Accorsi didn't draft guys into a system, he just drafted whoever he thought was good. Reese specifically targets talent that is maximized under the systems theyre being drafted into: examples being Ross, Alford, Smith, and Bradshaw.

I don't disagree with Thompson getting the nod, theres a lot of good GMs in this league. Reese could very well be a one year wonder for all we know.







While Accorsi's players finally stepped up Reese has done alot more than people will give him credit for. He stared down Strahan and didn't give him more money when he was holding out, and also cut Luke P., which at the time was a big move because he was a long time vet on this team. One key move was locking up Justin Tuck as well.


Found this on BBI..

Ted Thompson

Drafted players:

1 Justin Harrell DT Tennessee
2 Brandon Jackson RB Nebraska
3 James Jones WR San Jose State
3 Aaron Rouse SAF Virginia Tech
4 Allen Barbre G Missouri Southern State
5 David Clowney WR Virginia Tech
6 Korey Hall FB Boise State
6 Desmond Bishop LB California
6 Mason Crosby K Colorado
7 DeShawn Wynn RB Florida
7 Clark Harris TE Rutgers

outside of Crosby, who in this draft really contributed?? Harell, their first round draft pick only started 2 games and played in 7 games total.

Free agents acquired:
Craig Nall QB
Daniel Muir DT
Conrad Bolston DT
Ryan Krause TE
Orrin Thompsn OT
Ryan Grant RB (trade)
John Kuhn FB (waiver)
Tramon Williams CB
Ryan Powdrell FB



Jerry Reese

Draft:
1 Aaron Ross CB Texas
2 Steve Smith WR USC
3 Jay Alford NT Penn State
4 Zak DeOssie LB Brown
5 Kevin Boss TE Western Oregon
6 Adam Koets T Oregon State
7 Michael Johnson SAF Arizona
7 Ahmad Bradshaw RB Marshall



Free agents:

Anthony Wright QB
Rueben Droughns RB (trade)
Danny Ware RB
Madison Hedgecock FB (waivers)
Domenik Hixon WR (waivers)
Michael Matthews TE
Dave Tollefson DE
Kavika Mitchell LB
Geoffrey Pope CB
Lawrence Tynes K

Maybe Next Year Millen2
03-26-2008, 10:15 AM
Thompson is a good GM but the the building blocks for the Packers were there already. 2005 was an injury riddled year for the Packers and they were actually a better team than there 4-12 record. Thompson completed the team with Woodson(who was miraculously still on the market in early April or late March) and hired a great coach so I guess he deserves to win. I gvie McCarthy way more credit for the Packers success, but McCarthy was hired by Thompson. Plus he has been able to retain all his young players and set this team up for the post Favre era. The key will be Rodgers,Harell and how Jenning/Jones perform without Favre. Hawk is a no-brainer solid pick.

Thompson inherited, Favre future HOFer, Driver, two solid tackles in Clifton, Taushcer, Barnett, Al Harris, and two solid DEs in Kampman/Barnett. Pretty much the backbone of any team. They won 3 or 4 North Championships in a row before Thompson. Because of cap problems before the jump in the cap, Thompson did the only thing he could do in cut Wahle,Rivera and Sharper. He was able to complete the team with guys like Pickett,Jennings/Jones and got a great find in Ryan Grant.

JT Jag
03-26-2008, 10:53 AM
I gotta give credit to Bill Polian.

But it's hard for him to win the award currently considering how the Colts are built--- for stability and NOT for intriguing big moves.

neko4
03-26-2008, 10:55 AM
While Accorsi's players finally stepped up Reese has done alot more than people will give him credit for. He stared down Strahan and didn't give him more money when he was holding out, and also cut Luke P., which at the time was a big move because he was a long time vet on this team. One key move was locking up Justin Tuck as well.


Found this on BBI..

Ted Thompson

Drafted players:

1 Justin Harrell DT Tennessee
2 Brandon Jackson RB Nebraska
3 James Jones WR San Jose State
3 Aaron Rouse SAF Virginia Tech
4 Allen Barbre G Missouri Southern State
5 David Clowney WR Virginia Tech
6 Korey Hall FB Boise State
6 Desmond Bishop LB California
6 Mason Crosby K Colorado
7 DeShawn Wynn RB Florida
7 Clark Harris TE Rutgers

outside of Crosby, who in this draft really contributed?? Harell, their first round draft pick only started 2 games and played in 7 games total.

Free agents acquired:
Craig Nall QB
Daniel Muir DT
Conrad Bolston DT
Ryan Krause TE
Orrin Thompsn OT
Ryan Grant RB (trade)
John Kuhn FB (waiver)
Tramon Williams CB
Ryan Powdrell FB



Jerry Reese

Draft:
1 Aaron Ross CB Texas
2 Steve Smith WR USC
3 Jay Alford NT Penn State
4 Zak DeOssie LB Brown
5 Kevin Boss TE Western Oregon
6 Adam Koets T Oregon State
7 Michael Johnson SAF Arizona
7 Ahmad Bradshaw RB Marshall



Free agents:

Anthony Wright QB
Rueben Droughns RB (trade)
Danny Ware RB
Madison Hedgecock FB (waivers)
Domenik Hixon WR (waivers)
Michael Matthews TE
Dave Tollefson DE
Kavika Mitchell LB
Geoffrey Pope CB
Lawrence Tynes K

James Jones was our third WR and played great. Jackson got better at the end of the year. Rouse looked impressive in his 1 start, but got hurt. Hall started at FB. Wynn had a big run against the Giants to seal the win. And was tearing up the bears before he got hurt. As for FA's, we all know what Grant did. And Kuhn shared time with Hall. Williams was a KR and i believe he eventually became the Nickel back

DawgBone
03-26-2008, 11:02 AM
But what about Hank Fraley!?!?

And again, you're both wrong, it's Bill Polian and/or Scott Pioli/Bellicheck.

The Packers haven't even made a Superbowl with TT and the Browns haven't even made the ******* playoffs. Back up the homer trains, neither guy is even in the top 5 yet. Savage isn't even sniffing it.

Unless we're just talking about this year, in which case TT is fine.

Relax bro sounds like you woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Do you want every poster that has an opinion to not share it? Or are you just saying if you dont agree we should keep it to ourselves?

I gave very good reasons with my answer to take it one step out of the "homer" position.

The post was to point out what our GM has accomplished. I even said in my post that in my opinion I thought Ted Thompson should be the winner.

Once again a respected poster to this board over values his own opinions. You dont think it should have been Ted THompson? 19 of the the NFL's 48 executives seemed to agree it should be.

DawgBone
03-26-2008, 11:08 AM
He would have been fired if they were under .500.

Use something substancial for your arguement. Not "what ifs".

DawgBone
03-26-2008, 11:09 AM
sorry delete this.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
03-26-2008, 11:23 AM
The Packers had a good year because they werent injured like the year before. They played some pretty easy teams that the AFC doesnt get the luxeury of playing.

Most teams would die to get to play the Lions, Bears, and Viks twice in the 2007 season.

The last time the Browns played the Lions, the Lions won.

The Bears have been pretty strong until their collapse this year and I don't think anyone will enjoy playing Adrian Peterson and that run D twice a year. Everyone might enjoy playing the Lions, but the Browns have been the Lions of the AFC North until last year.

The AFC North has the same problems as the NFC North with 1 dimensional teams with one solid team in Pittsburgh/Green Bay. Cincy has the O but no D, Cleveland has been the doormat with no D like the Lions with weapons like Braylon/Winslow, Baltimore has the D but no Offense and are inconsistent from year to year like the Vikings.

DawgBone
03-26-2008, 11:25 AM
The last time the Browns played the Lions, the Lions won.

The Bears have been pretty strong until their collapse this year and I don't think anyone will enjoy playing Adrian Peterson and that run D twice a year. Everyone might enjoy playing the Lions, but the Browns have been the Lions of the AFC North until last year.

The AFC North has the same problems as the NFC North with 1 dimensional teams with one solid team in Pittsburgh/Green Bay. Cincy has the O but no D, Cleveland has been the doormat with no D like the Lions with weapons like Braylon/Winslow, Baltimore has the D but no Offense and are inconsistent from year to year like the Vikings.

"The last time the Browns played the Lions, the Lions won. "

The last time that happened the Browns also sucked and I wouldnt have even chimed in on this thread.

And why is everyone throwing out the fact that we didnt make the playoffs? If the Colts didnt give up on their season to rest like half the NFL the Browns would have been in. Its a joke that the season last 16 games, but the NFL cant even get them to show up for all 16.

Sniper
03-26-2008, 11:32 AM
Scott Pioli/Bill Belichick and Bill Polian get my vote. However, Jerry Reese will skyrocket if he keeps drafting like he did last year.

NY+Giants=NYG
03-26-2008, 11:41 AM
James Jones was our third WR and played great. Jackson got better at the end of the year. Rouse looked impressive in his 1 start, but got hurt. Hall started at FB. Wynn had a big run against the Giants to seal the win. And was tearing up the bears before he got hurt. As for FA's, we all know what Grant did. And Kuhn shared time with Hall. Williams was a KR and i believe he eventually became the Nickel back

Yeah your players did come on towards the end. It should be noted that Reese also had 2 jobs this past year. He still had his old job or director of scouting or something AND GM. He didn't get time to interview and hire someone so he did his old job AND his new GM job. Now he hired Marc Ross as the new guy for his old job. But what makes Reese's success his first year even better in our eyes is that he had two job responsibilties last year.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
03-26-2008, 11:44 AM
"The last time the Browns played the Lions, the Lions won. "

The last time that happened the Browns also sucked and I wouldnt have even chimed in on this thread.

And why is everyone throwing out the fact that we didnt make the playoffs? If the Colts didnt give up on their season to rest like half the NFL the Browns would have been in. Its a joke that the season last 16 games, but the NFL cant even get them to show up for all 16.

Your argument is that the Packers wouldn't have had as good of season if they weren't in the NFC North. The Pack also went 3-1 against the NFC East which most consider the toughest division in football. Maybe the Browns wouldn't have been 10-6 if Cincy and Baltimore didn't fall apart. I'd love to play Baltimore and Cincy next year instead of Minnesota and Chicago. Its the NFL, every game and every division is tough.

The Colts had every reason to rest their starters they had nothing to gain from playing them.

DawgBone
03-26-2008, 12:41 PM
Your argument is that the Packers wouldn't have had as good of season if they weren't in the NFC North. The Pack also went 3-1 against the NFC East which most consider the toughest division in football. Maybe the Browns wouldn't have been 10-6 if Cincy and Baltimore didn't fall apart. I'd love to play Baltimore and Cincy next year instead of Minnesota and Chicago. Its the NFL, every game and every division is tough.

The Colts had every reason to rest their starters they had nothing to gain from playing them.

The Colts had every reason? You think most of those fans would have bought an exspensive ticket to watch Jim Sorgie? Its just another recent reason this league is turning into a joke. They did have a reason to play them, its called maintaining chemistry, something they obviously lost when they got to the playoffs.

NFC East the toughest? But then you go on to say every division is tough? Thats not much support to your own statement.

And no every game isnt tough. Just ask the Titans who got an easy ride against the Colts because they rested all of their star players. tell me that was tough? Were the games for the Pats early this year very tough? how about when the Steelers killed the Browns, was that hard for them to?


GB had a very good year, but you can thank Brett Favre not Ted Thompson.

Here is a copy of your schedule and the results...
http://www.nfl.com/teams/schedule?team=GB

Other than the Cowboys and luckily getting to play the Giants during there 0-2 start, your schedule might have been the easiest in the NFL this year? Find me an easier one? Once the Giants got their team together they ended up beating you anyways. Plus your only true test against the Cowboys you lost.

Heres an interesting thing to look at (team deffense)
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2007&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

Most of the teams the Packers got to play were ranked mid to bottom of the NFL in team deffense, Brett Favre was able to have a hay day before he retired. is it any wonder 5 of the top 6 deffensive teams play in the AFC?

art vandelay
03-26-2008, 12:45 PM
A darkhorse would be Ozzie Newsome. Great talent evaluator, IMO.

GB12
03-26-2008, 12:48 PM
The Colts had every reason? You think most of those fans would have bought an exspensive ticket to watch Jim Sorgie? Its just another recent reason this league is turning into a joke.

NFC East the toughest? But then you go on to say every division is tough? Thats not much support to your own statement.

And no every game isnt tough. Just ask the Titans who got an easy ride against the Colts because they rested all of their star players. tell me that was tough? Were the games for the Pats early this year very tough? how about when the Steelers killed the Browns, was that hard for them to?
Take care of your own ****. It's not the Colts job to get the Browns in the playoffs. You lost to Oakland, Arizona, and Cincinatti, it's you're own fault and no one else's.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
03-26-2008, 01:06 PM
The Colts had every reason? You think most of those fans would have bought an exspensive ticket to watch Jim Sorgie? Its just another recent reason this league is turning into a joke.

NFC East the toughest? But then you go on to say every division is tough? Thats not much support to your own statement.

And no every game isnt tough. Just ask the Titans who got an easy ride against the Colts because they rested all of their star players. tell me that was tough? Were the games for the Pats early this year very tough? how about when the Steelers killed the Browns, was that hard for them to?

NFC East?
#1 Dallas beat you
#2 You beat the Giants when they started out 0-2, they werent good till midway through the season.
#3 barely beat the redskins and eagles by a combine 6 pts.

GB had a very good year, but you can thank Brett Favre not Ted Thompson.

The Colts had every right because they clinched their playoff spot. Its just sour grapes on the Browns part to say otherwise. Why risk a Peyton Manning injury to play the Titans in a meaningless game for the Colts. Would you want Anderson playing Week 17 if you had your spot clinched. NO and don't even attempt to say you would!!!!! GB12 said it best, take care of your own schedule. Any team that can't beat the Oakland Raiders doesn't deserve to go the playoffs. They deserve to have Jim Sorgi play the Titans and thats what happened.

I didn't say the NFC East is toughest in my own opinion. I said other people claim that the NFC East is the toughest if you go by the theory of thinking some divisions are better than others. And who cares how many points you win by. Most games in the NFL are close.

And if I were to determine who had the tougher schedule as a non-Packer non-Brown fan, the Browns schedule from 2007 doesn't exactly scream tough. Dolphins,Bills,Jets,49ers,Bengals 2X(1 loss),Ravens(2x),Rams,Texans all had down/some terrible years along with Oakland. I'd say the Browns were more of a product of their schedule than the Packers.

DawgBone
03-26-2008, 01:10 PM
Take care of your own ****. It's not the Colts job to get the Browns in the playoffs. You lost to Oakland, Arizona, and Cincinatti, it's you're own fault and no one else's.

wow tough guy. I bet not as tough as the NFC East though right?

GB12
03-26-2008, 01:13 PM
wow tough guy. I bet not as tough as the NFC East though right? What the hell does the NFC East have to do with anything? You aren't even making an argument you're just asking dumb questions.

DawgBone
03-26-2008, 01:14 PM
What the hell does the NFC East have to do with anything? You aren't even making an argument you're just asking dumb questions.

It wasnt to you, but i guess since your yurning for attention, Ill allow you to respond.

GB12
03-26-2008, 01:16 PM
It wasnt to you, but i guess since your yurning for attention, Ill allow you to respond.
You quoted my post saying "wow tough guy. I bet not as tough as the NFC East though right?"

Maybe Next Year Millen2
03-26-2008, 01:16 PM
What the hell does the NFC East have to do with anything? You aren't even making an argument you're just asking dumb questions.

He was directing that towards me because I said most people think that the NFC East is the toughest divison.

DawgBone
03-26-2008, 01:17 PM
He was directing that towards me because I said most people think that the NFC East is the toughest divison.

It was a joke also so I hope you dont get sore over it.

princefielder28
03-26-2008, 01:18 PM
It was a joke also so I hope you dont get sore over it.

You just need to stop talking b/c you can't put forth a rational thought

Maybe Next Year Millen2
03-26-2008, 01:19 PM
wow tough guy. I bet not as tough as the NFC East though right?

The Packers didn't lose to the NFC East other than Dallas. They only lost 3 games.

2 to the Bears, who still have a good defense when healty and seem to have Favres number and 1 to the Cowboys.

If you deserved to make the playoffs, you would have won one more game. Oakland was your best bet or even in the close game against Pittsburgh. You didn't so you didn't make the playoffs.

DawgBone
03-26-2008, 01:19 PM
You just need to stop talking b/c you can put forth a rational thought

thanks mod. But you were supposed to put CANT, not CAN, better edit your post.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
03-26-2008, 01:20 PM
It was a joke also so I hope you dont get sore over it.

Why would I get sore over it?

DawgBone
03-26-2008, 01:21 PM
The Packers didn't lose to the NFC East other than Dallas. They only lost 3 games.

2 to the Bears, who still have a good defense when healty and seem to have Favres number and 1 to the Cowboys.

If you deserved to make the playoffs, you would have won one more game. Oakland was your best bet or even in the close game against Pittsburgh. You didn't so you didn't make the playoffs.

Why are you argueing the Browns? This has nothing to do with them. They also had one of if not the easiest schedules. And like the Packers probably overacheived.

princefielder28
03-26-2008, 01:21 PM
thanks mod. But you were supposed to put CANT, not CAN, better edit your post.

thanks for pointing that out....taken care of

DawgBone
03-26-2008, 01:22 PM
Why would I get sore over it?

I didnt know if you would take it the wrong way, it wasnt my intention to do so or start a fight.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
03-26-2008, 01:25 PM
IMO Phil Savage. In 3-4 years he took the very worste team in the NFL to possibly top 5 in the hard AFC.

Everyone remembers some of our horrible draft picks. Free agents despite us having money, refused to play here.

We get the top free agents now, great pro bowl quality draft picks. Hes unbeleavable at getting players as undrafted FA's getting Cribbs and Bodden of late. He was also in charge of bringing in and having faith in Derek Anderson.

He played a huge part in the Ravens superbowl and the solid teams they had and brought the same style to Cleveland.

Ted Thomas deserved to win, and I also like AJ Smith, but Phil easily did the most with less.

We didnt have a simgle pro bowler for a span of about 5-6 years, and we had 6 this year.

The Browns could have around 9 pro bowl players this year if everyone plays up to par.
Derek Anderson
Braylon Edwards
Kellen Winslow
Lawrence Vickers (without Lorenzo Neal Vickers is a near lock)
Joe Thomas
Eric Steinbach (has made 2 before)
Josh Cribbs
Shaun Rogers (has made 2 before)
Kamerion Wimbley

Its just nasty what Phil Savage has done with the talent level of this team and I didnt even include the solid players like...
Jamal Lewis
Donte Stallworth
Corey Williams
Sean Jones
Eric Wright
Andra Davis
Dqwell Jackson
Brodney Poole
Kevin Shaffer
Hank Fraley
Joe Jurivicius
Brady Quinn

THis team is going to be pretty nasty. He has also brought an unbelievable coaching staff in from the horrid Butch Davis years.

His been credited for genius salary cap meneuvers that have since been picked up by teams all around the league.

Who would have thought 3 years ago when he took over for the Browns we would be talking deep playoff runs? If this team was in the NFC they could easily be considered the 2nd best team by more than one guru.

Before Phil Savage/after Phil Savage
Tim Couch - Derek Anderson
William Green - Jamal Lewis
Terrell Smith - Lawrence Vickers
Kevin Johnson - Braylon Edwards
Quincy Morgan - Donte Stallworth
Dennis Northcutt - Joe Jurivicius
LJ Sheldon - Joe THomas
Joe Andruzzi - Eric Steinbach
Jeff Faine - Hank Fraley
Cosey Coleman - Lecharles Bentley (finally healthy)
Ross Verba - Kevin Shaffer

Kenard Land - Corey Williams
Gerard Warren - Shaun Rogers
Alvin McKinley - Shaun Smith
Ebinezer Eukuban - Robair Smith
Ben Taylor - Dqwell Jackson
Kevin Bentley - Kamerion Wimbley
Daylon Mccutcheon - Eric Wright
Michael Jamison - Brodney Poole
Michael Lehan - Sean Jones




anyone see a difference in 3 years?

Then why should Savage win the award. If they both overachieved.

ny10804
03-26-2008, 01:25 PM
On the topic of Ted Thompson, here's a nice little stat: of the 10 rookies (10 individuals accounted for all 17 weeks) awarded "Rookie of the Week" in 2007, 3 (Jones, Crosby, and Jackson) were Packers.

DawgBone
03-26-2008, 01:27 PM
Then why should Savage win the award. If they both overachieved.

I said he should have been considered. If you read the post I said IMO Thompson should have one, which he did.

Somehow it escaladed into a fight with packers fans etc....not really sure how?

Maybe Next Year Millen2
03-26-2008, 01:27 PM
I didnt know if you would take it the wrong way, it wasnt my intention to do so or start a fight.

I'm not fighting. Are you? I'm arguing in a calm respectful manner, much like you are. Isn't that how a message board works?

Maybe Next Year Millen2
03-26-2008, 01:29 PM
I said he should have been considered. If you read the post I said IMO Thompson should have one, which he did.

And I'm sure Savage was considered.

So why bash Thompson because the Packers had an "easy" schedule?

DawgBone
03-26-2008, 01:29 PM
I'm not fighting. Are you? I'm arguing in a calm respectful manner, much like you are. Isn't that how a message board works?

Ya no problems wit you bro. But Ive got 3 negative reps from 3 different packers fans that think I hate their team. Maybe they forgot I was on their side to start?

I was on the side of Thompson, but got angry at neg rep from Pack fans so I started to look on the other side of the grass.

For 5 dollas Ill be a Lion fan tomm ok? My Sanders jersey is still in the attick.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
03-26-2008, 01:35 PM
Ya no problems wit you bro. But Ive got 3 negative reps from 3 different packers fans that think I hate their team. Maybe they forgot I was on their side to start?

I was on the side of Thompson, but got angry at neg rep from Pack fans so I started to look on the other side of the grass.

For 5 dollas Ill be a Lion fan tomm ok? My Sanders jersey is still in the attick.

Haha I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy being a Lions fan right now. Maybe one day, but not with Millen.

I wonder if Millen got any votes? LOL

DawgBone
03-26-2008, 01:38 PM
Haha I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy being a Lions fan right now. Maybe one day, but not with Millen.

I wonder if Millen got any votes? LOL

I still wonder about the Lions.

6-2 start and people thought Millen might win something
then a 1-7 finish?

GB12
03-26-2008, 01:41 PM
Ya no problems wit you bro. But Ive got 3 negative reps from 3 different packers fans that think I hate their team. Maybe they forgot I was on their side to start?

I was on the side of Thompson, but got angry at neg rep from Pack fans so I started to look on the other side of the grass.
No you neg repped me for this
Take care of your own ****. It's not the Colts job to get the Browns in the playoffs. You lost to Oakland, Arizona, and Cincinatti, it's you're own fault and no one else's.
Saying this in the neg rep

And the Packers came up short again with maybe their last shot at a SB until they get a real QB lol!

So I neg repped you back not only for that but because you aren't making any sense in you're arguments and can't make a valid point if your life depended on it. I didn't even say anything about the Packers I was talking about the Browns.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
03-26-2008, 01:43 PM
I still wonder about the Lions.

6-2 start and people thought Millen might win something
then a 1-7 finish?

Terrible Defense that overachieved in the first half and a refusal of Martz to run the ball. Everyone disappeared on the D-line, unfortunatley including Shaun Rogers which is why he is a Brown now. I think Rogers has a lot left though and he is a tremendous talent. I think the Lions still neeed him because Darby is not the answer but I'm happy we got Bodden and a 3rd for him.

umphrey
03-26-2008, 01:45 PM
Ya no problems wit you bro. But Ive got 3 negative reps from 3 different packers fans that think I hate their team. Maybe they forgot I was on their side to start?

I was on the side of Thompson, but got angry at neg rep from Pack fans so I started to look on the other side of the grass.

For 5 dollas Ill be a Lion fan tomm ok? My Sanders jersey is still in the attick.

Well yeah you pretty much turned us all against you when you said all our success was because of Favre (way off), we had the easiest schedule in the league (probably middle of the road, and don't try to take away our early wins against Philly, San Diego, and NYG), and that we only did good because of few injuries (we were healthy, but we had a good team to begin with).

Millen takes a lot of smack but I think he's improved in the past few years. He's brought in some good players, he's not doing bad from a talent evaluation standpoint, he just doesn't seem to understand that you have to build a team from the interior not the skill positions. He also seems to go with what he thinks is best and not what the fans want which I admire, but that trait only works when you're smarter than the fans...

DawgBone
03-26-2008, 01:49 PM
"and that we only did good because of few injuries (we were healthy, but we had a good team to begin with)."

I think you guys here what you want. Tha packers started off and finished good. And I never mentioned anything about your teams injuries in 2007? That was a comment for the 2006 season.

TheGreatEscape
03-26-2008, 02:14 PM
No you neg repped me for this

Saying this in the neg rep

So I neg repped you back not only for that but because you aren't making any sense in you're arguments and can't make a valid point if your life depended on it. I didn't even say anything about the Packers I was talking about the Browns.

He's making sense on this page. Saying Thompson deserved it despite his team overachieving on a weak schedule, which they did,and that Phil Savage deserved to be in the discussion despite the browns also preying on a weak schedule. Personally I don't expect Anderson or Lewis to have any where near as good of a season as they had last year and that the D is still very questionable, corner and OLB(opposite Whimbley) especially. Hell there where so many bad teams in the league that any good good team preyed on a weak schedule.

DawgBone
03-26-2008, 02:20 PM
He's making sense on this page. Saying Thompson deserved it despite his team overachieving on a weak schedule, which they did,and that Phil Savage deserved to be in the discussion despite the browns also preying on a weak schedule. Personally I don't expect Anderson or Lewis to have any where near as good of a season as they had last year and that the D is still very questionable, corner and OLB(opposite Whimbley) especially. Hell there where so many bad teams in the league that any good good team preyed on a weak schedule.

I gave a great reason why Phil is a good GM, are you doubting he is or should be in the consideration?

Name another team that has did more with less in a 3 year span? And GB - what do you mean im not making sence, this is my arguement.


Before Phil Savage/after Phil Savage
Tim Couch - Derek Anderson
William Green - Jamal Lewis
Terrell Smith - Lawrence Vickers
Kevin Johnson - Braylon Edwards
Quincy Morgan - Donte Stallworth
Dennis Northcutt - Joe Jurivicius
LJ Sheldon - Joe THomas
Joe Andruzzi - Eric Steinbach
Jeff Faine - Hank Fraley
Cosey Coleman - Lecharles Bentley (finally healthy)
Ross Verba - Kevin Shaffer

Kenard Land - Corey Williams
Gerard Warren - Shaun Rogers
Alvin McKinley - Shaun Smith
Ebinezer Eukuban - Robair Smith
Ben Taylor - Dqwell Jackson
Kevin Bentley - Kamerion Wimbley
Daylon Mccutcheon - Eric Wright
Michael Jamison - Brodney Poole
Michael Lehan - Sean Jones

Derek Frost - Dave Zastudil
Andre King - Josh Cribbs
anyone see a difference in 3 years?


WHo has did more to an NFL roster in a positive way that Phil in the last 3 years? Hes doing all he can and it will be recognized next year. That was my only point before saying that Thompson deserved it this year because he got his team to the playoffs.

Then people ripped me for saying its the Browns fault we didnt make the playoffs, so I said we would have if we were in the NFC with a 10-6 record and got bashed.

I guess my only point is that Phil Savage created this team, Ted Thompson basically inherited his minus the coaching staff.

PACKmanN
03-26-2008, 02:47 PM
I gave a great reason why Phil is a good GM, are you doubting he is or should be in the consideration?

Name another team that has did more with less in a 3 year span? And GB - what do you mean im not making sence, this is my arguement.


Before Phil Savage/after Phil Savage
Tim Couch - Derek Anderson
William Green - Jamal Lewis
Terrell Smith - Lawrence Vickers
Kevin Johnson - Braylon Edwards
Quincy Morgan - Donte Stallworth
Dennis Northcutt - Joe Jurivicius
LJ Sheldon - Joe THomas
Joe Andruzzi - Eric Steinbach
Jeff Faine - Hank Fraley
Cosey Coleman - Lecharles Bentley (finally healthy)
Ross Verba - Kevin Shaffer

Kenard Land - Corey Williams
Gerard Warren - Shaun Rogers
Alvin McKinley - Shaun Smith
Ebinezer Eukuban - Robair Smith
Ben Taylor - Dqwell Jackson
Kevin Bentley - Kamerion Wimbley
Daylon Mccutcheon - Eric Wright
Michael Jamison - Brodney Poole
Michael Lehan - Sean Jones

Derek Frost - Dave Zastudil
Andre King - Josh Cribbs
anyone see a difference in 3 years?


WHo has did more to an NFL roster in a positive way that Phil in the last 3 years? Hes doing all he can and it will be recognized next year. That was my only point before saying that Thompson deserved it this year because he got his team to the playoffs.

Then people ripped me for saying its the Browns fault we didnt make the playoffs, so I said we would have if we were in the NFC with a 10-6 record and got bashed.

I guess my only point is that Phil Savage created this team, Ted Thompson basically inherited his minus the coaching staff.

Thompson inherited this team? where did you get this from? Thompson had to rebuild the WR, TE, OL(inside), RB, DB(expect Harris), LB(expect Barnett), and DT(expect Williams), entire ST unit. The only players he inherited from the positions he built were Harris, Barnett, and Williams.

He also saw the talent in Kampman to keep him, before he had his break out season. If you ask me thats an excellent job....

The players you listed came to the team this year, and haven't proven anything to the Browns. Questions like will Rogers still slack off, can Williams play in a 3-4.

If you think Ted Thompson should win the award, then why are you always brining up Phil Savage? seems like you think he should have won the award...

DawgBone
03-26-2008, 02:53 PM
Thompson inherited this team? where did you get this from? Thompson had to rebuild the WR, TE, OL(inside), RB, DB(expect Harris), LB(expect Barnett), and DT(expect Williams), entire ST unit. The only players he inherited from the positions he built were Harris, Barnett, and Williams.

He also saw the talent in Kampman to keep him, before he had his break out season. If you ask me thats an excellent job....

The players you listed came to the team this year, and haven't proven anything to the Browns. Questions like will Rogers still slack off, can Williams play in a 3-4.

If you think Ted Thompson should win the award, then why are you always brining up Phil Savage? seems like you think he should have won the award...

He inherited Brett Favre, 2 great tackles on offense, Donald Driver, Barnett, etc.... You dont even mention this?

And I dont think he rebuilt the TE's, your TE's arent even nothing to brag about if he did.

"The players you listed came to the team this year"

I listed our entire team that he redid, and you act like I just mentioned Rogers and Williams? What a joke.

Kampman is a great player and your now trying to give that credit to THompson? OMG. Just because he resigned him WOW.

I gaurantee after TT won the award he called Favre and said thanks for the last great year we will have in awhile.

If thats all you want to talk about is how he rebuilt positions, Phil Savage has him easily.

Good passing teams in the NFL need a QB, LT, and pro bowl WR to succeed, the Packers allready had all of this.

PACKmanN
03-26-2008, 03:00 PM
He inherited Brett Favre, 2 great tackles on offense, Donald Driver, Barnett, etc.... You dont even mention this?

And I dont think he rebuilt the TE's, your TE's arent even nothing to brag about if he did.

"The players you listed came to the team this year"

I listed our entire team that he redid, and you act like I just mentioned Rogers and Williams? What a joke.

Kampman is a great player and your now trying to give that credit to THompson? OMG. Just because he resigned him WOW.

I gaurantee after TT won the award he called Favre and said thanks for the last great year we will have in awhile.

And you wonder why you have negative rep...

PACKmanN
03-26-2008, 03:02 PM
He inherited Brett Favre, 2 great tackles on offense, Donald Driver, Barnett, etc.... You dont even mention this?

And I dont think he rebuilt the TE's, your TE's arent even nothing to brag about if he did.

"The players you listed came to the team this year"

I listed our entire team that he redid, and you act like I just mentioned Rogers and Williams? What a joke.

Kampman is a great player and your now trying to give that credit to THompson? OMG. Just because he resigned him WOW.

I gaurantee after TT won the award he called Favre and said thanks for the last great year we will have in awhile.

If thats all you want to talk about is how he rebuilt positions, Phil Savage has him easily.

Good passing teams in the NFL need a QB, LT, and pro bowl WR to succeed, the Packers allready had all of this.

Ok wow Phil Savage went out and signed free agents to replace their past starters, WOW. See how dumb that is....

There something called evaluating the talent, and seeing if that player could become a success in your system... GMs do that too you know...

ny10804
03-26-2008, 03:03 PM
I'm sure trading two firsts and a second for a backup QB - to a 25 year old pro-bowler no less - didn't headline Savage's executive of the year resume.

And if you want to talk about roster turnover, only 14 players (now 10 with the losses of Favre, Rob Davis, Bubba Franks, and Corey Williams) remained in 2007 from the team Thompson inherited in 2004. One of the best qualities of TT is that his biggest mistakes (not replacing Rivera and Wahle, signing Marquand Manuel (we get it, BF51), or trading for Moss) haven't resulted in any long term problems, all while keeping the cap extremely healthy.

And the signing of Mike McCarthy (at the time an offensive coordinator for one of the league's worst offenses) can't be underestimated. He's the straw that stirs Green Bay's drink.

ChezPower4
03-26-2008, 03:07 PM
He took the packers from 4-12 to 13-3 and an apperance in the NFC Championship Game. With almost no major FA signings outside of Woodson and Pickett. So the team was virtualy built through the draft and he has brought in some outstanding young talent the last 3 years. I have no reason to believe that this draft will be any different.

I think that Phil Savage of the Browns also deserves a lot of credit for what he has done with the Browns. He has taken a team that the last 6 of 7 years has been the laughing stock of the NFL and turned them into contenders in the AFC. Its a very good thing to see the Browns doing well because they have had a rough last 10 years and they are one of the NFL's oldest teams with lots of history.

DawgBone
03-26-2008, 03:08 PM
Ok wow Phil Savage went out and signed free agents to replace their past starters, WOW. See how dumb that is....

There something called evaluating the talent, and seeing if that player could become a success in your system... GMs do that too you know...

Ya he did it with Josh Cribbs, Leigh Bodden, and Derek Anderson your point?

DawgBone
03-26-2008, 03:11 PM
You guys act like the Packers have sucked and TT made them good in a year. If your going to say that he took them from 4-12 to 13-3, then why not bring up the fact he was the reason they went 4-12 if your going to give the GM all the credit for wins?

"I'm sure trading two firsts and a second for a backup QB - to a 25 year old pro-bowler no less - didn't headline Savage's executive of the year resume."

It was a first round pick #24 overall and a second, for basically the #22 overall in a fairly stronger draft. Brady Quinn would be the #1 overall QB this year most likely going top 10. And Anderson is a 24 year old pro bowler.

Are you saying it is a bad idea to have 2 above average QB's on a roster? I think its smart.

And at the time it did headline his GM resume did you allready forget. And if you mention Derek Anderson mention that he was brought to the Browns by Phil as a practice squad player and in 2 years turned into a pro bowler ok?

PACKmanN
03-26-2008, 03:18 PM
Ya he did it with Josh Cribbs, Leigh Bodden, and Derek Anderson your point?

Leigh Bodden is no longer on the team, and no he didn't evaluate anything in Derek Anderson. He got lucky with Anderson, if he did have trust in him, he wouldn't have traded this year first round pick for Quinn...

And well lets look at Thompsons' steals of recent draft....

05:
Terrence Murphy(Before career ending injury)
Marviel Underwood(Before career ending injury)
Brady Poppinga
Junius Coston

06:
Greg Jennings
Will Blackmon
Tony Moll
Johnny Jolly

07:
James Jones
Allen Barbre
Korey Hall
Mason Crosby

He also didn't build our team, he also built another team(Seahawks) on what he believes.

You still haven't answered my question, why did you say that Thompson should win the award, yet you acting like the Browns gm should have won the award? Thompson took a team who DIDN'T make it as far in the playoffs as last year in a long time, and rebuilt them to a yearly playoff contending team, and doing it with the YOUNGEST team in the league...

GB12
03-26-2008, 03:19 PM
You guys act like the Packers have sucked and TT made them good in a year. If your going to say that he took them from 4-12 to 13-3, then why not bring up the fact he was the reason they went 4-12 if your going to give the GM all the credit for wins?
Unless there's some conspiracy theory that I don't know about Ted Thompson didn't injure Javon Walker, Terrence Murphy, Robert Ferguson, Bubba Franks, Ahman Green, Najeh Davenport, Tony Fisher, Brady Poppinga, or Robert Thomas.

He didn't replace the guards effectively right away, but that's not the reason we went 4-12.

DawgBone
03-26-2008, 03:19 PM
05:
Terrence Murphy(Before career ending injury)
Marviel Underwood(Before career ending injury)
Brady Poppinga
Junius Coston

06:
Greg Jennings
Will Blackmon
Tony Moll
Johnny Jolly

07:
James Jones
Allen Barbre
Korey Hall
Mason Crosby




Most non-packers fans have never heard of most of these people. There only coveted to packers fans.

DawgBone
03-26-2008, 03:21 PM
Unless there's some conspiracy theory that I don't know about Ted Thompson didn't injure Javon Walker, Terrence Murphy, Robert Ferguson, Bubba Franks, Ahman Green, Najeh Davenport, Tony Fisher, Brady Poppinga, or Robert Thomas.

He didn't replace the guards effectively right away, but that's not the reason we went 4-12.

If you want to give him credit for going 13-3, then he must take credit for going 4-12 no matter what the cercumstances. Its only fair. Thats the job of a GM hate it or love it.

GB12
03-26-2008, 03:25 PM
05:
Terrence Murphy(Before career ending injury)
Marviel Underwood(Before career ending injury)
Brady Poppinga
Junius Coston

06:
Greg Jennings
Will Blackmon
Tony Moll
Johnny Jolly

07:
James Jones
Allen Barbre
Korey Hall
Mason Crosby




Most non-packers fans have never heard of most of these people. There only coveted to packers fans.
Well you should know about them. (well most of them, some shouldn't be on that list)

You've honestly never heard of Greg Jennings, Brady Poppinga, Johnny Jolly, Mason Crosby, Korey Hall, Tony Moll, or Junius Coston? All have started a good number of games. Or James Jones who had a great rookie year as the #3?

DawgBone
03-26-2008, 03:27 PM
Well you should know about them. (well most of them, some shouldn't be on that list)

You've honestly never heard of Greg Jennings, Brady Poppinga, Johnny Jolly, Mason Crosby, Korey Hall, Tony Moll, or Junius Coston? All have started a good number of games. Or James Jones who had a great rookie year as the #3?

I said most of them. You act like since they start for the Packers that they are very good players. Some of those guys dont even belong starting.

Noone really even showed interest in Poppinga as a FA.

GB12
03-26-2008, 03:27 PM
If you want to give him credit for going 13-3, then he must take credit for going 4-12 no matter what the cercumstances. Its only fair. Thats the job of a GM hate it or love it.
Well then Savage is a terrible GM because they were 6-10 and 4-12 before having one good year(that they missed the playoffs).

LonghornsLegend
03-26-2008, 03:30 PM
The Colts had every reason? You think most of those fans would have bought an exspensive ticket to watch Jim Sorgie? Its just another recent reason this league is turning into a joke. They did have a reason to play them, its called maintaining chemistry, something they obviously lost when they got to the playoffs.

NFC East the toughest? But then you go on to say every division is tough? Thats not much support to your own statement.

And no every game isnt tough. Just ask the Titans who got an easy ride against the Colts because they rested all of their star players. tell me that was tough? Were the games for the Pats early this year very tough? how about when the Steelers killed the Browns, was that hard for them to?


GB had a very good year, but you can thank Brett Favre not Ted Thompson.

Here is a copy of your schedule and the results...
http://www.nfl.com/teams/schedule?team=GB

Other than the Cowboys and luckily getting to play the Giants during there 0-2 start, your schedule might have been the easiest in the NFL this year? Find me an easier one? Once the Giants got their team together they ended up beating you anyways. Plus your only true test against the Cowboys you lost.

Heres an interesting thing to look at (team deffense)
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2007&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

Most of the teams the Packers got to play were ranked mid to bottom of the NFL in team deffense, Brett Favre was able to have a hay day before he retired. is it any wonder 5 of the top 6 deffensive teams play in the AFC?



Its funny but Ive noticed you haven't mentioned the fact that the Browns had their own destiny with 2 games to go, so you do realize coming up with stuff like "well we would of been in the playoffs if the colts could just play all 16 games" makes you look like a raging homer to everyone...The Bengals didnt have anything to play for either and they were playing like crap at the time, yet everyone crumbled when they realized the playoffs were a reality...How about mentioning that you didnt make the playoffs because Anderson threw 4 picks, even when he still had chances to win the game after his 3rd...

Your playoff ventures have nothing to do with the Colts playing all 16 games, you only have to blame yourselves, and whenever a fan is blinded by those reasons he's given the title a homer which you fit perfectly.

GB12
03-26-2008, 03:30 PM
I said most of them. You act like since they start for the Packers that they are very good players. Some of those guys dont even belong starting.
He said "look at some of the steals". Getting starters that late can be considered steals. And who exactly doesn't belong starting?(besides maybe Moll)

DawgBone
03-26-2008, 03:32 PM
Its funny but Ive noticed you haven't mentioned the fact that the Browns had their own destiny with 2 games to go, so you do realize coming up with stuff like "well we would of been in the playoffs if the colts could just play all 16 games" makes you look like a raging homer to everyone...The Bengals didnt have anything to play for either and they were playing like crap at the time, yet everyone crumbled when they realized the playoffs were a reality...How about mentioning that you didnt make the playoffs because Anderson threw 4 picks, even when he still had chances to win the game after his 3rd...

Your playoff ventures have nothing to do with the Colts playing all 16 games, you only have to blame yourselves, and whenever a fan is blinded by those reasons he's given the title a homer which you fit perfectly.

When the leaue had a meeting to discuss aligations into the Titans having an agreement with the Colts I think it goes beyong my homerism. Everyone one knows the friendship between Dungy and Fischer and it played a part in another teams destiny, every year teams have to rely on other aswell as thereselves thats how sports work.

DawgBone
03-26-2008, 03:33 PM
He said "look at some of the steals". Getting starters that late can be considered steals. And who exactly doesn't belong starting?(besides maybe Moll)

Why are you so in love with your own players that you have to fight me over this


IM A BROWNS FAN
YOUR A PACKERS

why must you insist on converting me with your opinion? I think we both like the make-up of ours team leave it at that.

LonghornsLegend
03-26-2008, 03:35 PM
When the leaue had a meeting to discuss aligations into the Titans having an agreement with the Colts I think it goes beyong my homerism. Everyone one knows the friendship between Dungy and Fischer and it played a part in another teams destiny, every year teams have to rely on other aswell as thereselves thats how sports work.

Yet you fail to realize had you guys won out vs two sub par teams that game wouldnt of mattered anyway...Thats fine, toss around blame every other way, just dont act surprised when you get called a homer everywhere.

DawgBone
03-26-2008, 03:35 PM
according to record Ted Thompson was a horrible GM last year, but great this year.

In such little time I just dont feel it should be credited to the GM, when the core make-up of this team did not change. Ted Thompson is great, but hes getting credit that isnt his for this one.

Like another Packer fan said, health really helped this team, not there later round draft picks in there 13-3 season compared to 4-12.

GB12
03-26-2008, 03:36 PM
Why are you so in love with your own players that you have to fight me over this


IM A BROWNS FAN
YOUR A PACKERS

why must you insist on converting me with your opinion? I think we both like the make-up of ours team leave it at that.
Don't make statements you can't back up then.

PACKmanN
03-26-2008, 03:47 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2275447

Btw, here a link saying that there were rumors of Savage losing him job. I cant find the other one, but draft Quinn is what saved it.

neko4
03-26-2008, 03:55 PM
Maybe its just me, but TT is a pretty good politician too.
He decided not to give Rivera, Wahle and Sharper big bucks and cut them.
Ofcourse the 3 never became as good as they were when they were packers because they were old, but the loss of the those 3 meant a bad year for Green Bay. And the injury to JAvon walker helped too. So Green Bay went 4-12 allowing TT to fire Sherman and bring in his own guy (McCarthy)

yodabear
03-26-2008, 03:58 PM
Jay Zagmunt got the shaft eyeroll please!

TitleTown088
03-26-2008, 06:56 PM
It's all to amusing how Favre went from the loser-washed up QB that single handily caused a 4-12 season in the eyes of many to the savior who helped Ted Thompson win GM on the year. Oh, how times change.

DawgBone
03-27-2008, 03:46 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2275447

Btw, here a link saying that there were rumors of Savage losing him job. I cant find the other one, but draft Quinn is what saved it.

So Phil was going to loose his job (by no credible source other than a sports writer who never quoted anyone), but then it was saved because he traded our RD1 and RD2 for our back-up QB?

That sure made alot of sence.

LonghornsLegend
03-27-2008, 03:49 PM
So Phil was going to loose his job (by no credible source other than a sports writer who never quoted anyone), but then it was saved because he traded our RD1 and RD2 for our back-up QB?

That sure made alot of sence.

I liked how you cried to Packers fans for negative repping you, but you negative repped me and told me "use facts in my arguments", you mean like how the Browns blew their playoff chances vs Cincy, thats not facts?

neko4
03-27-2008, 04:43 PM
actually i am the best GM. I will prove it during the forum mock, when i trade Aaron Rodgers and all my picks for colt brennan

GB12
03-27-2008, 04:46 PM
actually i am the best GM. I will prove it during the forum mock, when i trade Aaron Rodgers and all my picks for colt brennan
PF28 actually did that in one last year

neko4
03-27-2008, 04:49 PM
traded everything for a QB?
Wait i think i was involved in that one.
hahaha

Addict
03-27-2008, 05:07 PM
actually i am the best GM. I will prove it during the forum mock, when i trade Aaron Rodgers and all my picks for colt brennan

I vote you for Lions GM! (hey you can't do worse than Millen!)

Twiddler
03-27-2008, 05:09 PM
actually i am the best GM. I will prove it during the forum mock, when i trade Aaron Rodgers and all my picks for colt brennan

Don't forget to trade for Brady Quinn because, it'd be stupid not to...

DawgBone
03-27-2008, 06:11 PM
I liked how you cried to Packers fans for negative repping you, but you negative repped me and told me "use facts in my arguments", you mean like how the Browns blew their playoff chances vs Cincy, thats not facts?

Seems like you wine just as much as anyone else?

luee
03-27-2008, 08:40 PM
Reese took over scouting in 03, check out the busts with EA before like Hatch, Markham, Carter etc..

Empire
03-27-2008, 10:18 PM
When the leaue had a meeting to discuss aligations into the Titans having an agreement with the Colts I think it goes beyong my homerism. Everyone one knows the friendship between Dungy and Fischer and it played a part in another teams destiny, every year teams have to rely on other aswell as thereselves thats how sports work.

Stop making pitiful excuses about the Browns. If the Browns won they'd be in the playoffs. But they didn't, they choked. They played like absolute ****. End of discussion.

Sniper
03-27-2008, 10:45 PM
When the leaue had a meeting to discuss aligations into the Titans having an agreement with the Colts I think it goes beyong my homerism. Everyone one knows the friendship between Dungy and Fischer and it played a part in another teams destiny, every year teams have to rely on other aswell as thereselves thats how sports work.

That right there shows a clear mastery of the English language.

PACKmanN
03-27-2008, 11:46 PM
Seems like you wine just as much as anyone else?

If anyone is whining its you. You have been whining for the last 2-3 pages, but you think Ted Thompson is the right choice for the award. It just doesn't make sense...

kalbears13
03-28-2008, 12:01 AM
DawgBone, I see some of your points but you seem to provoke people frequently.

Phil Savage has done a pretty good job but I dont think we'll be able to tell if it's a great job for another season or two. Saying that Phil Savage shouldn't be considered at all is dumb though. In 2 years he transformed a team with nobody into a team with a chance to make the playoffs. Right now it may not seem to be that much but just by looking at the two rosters that DawgBone posted that every position has been upgraded since the Butch Davis era. The only players that are still on the team from the Butch Davis/Chris Palmer era are Phil Dawson K, Andra Davis LB (2002), Ryan Pontbriand LS (2003), Kellen Winslow TE (2004) and Sean Jones S (2004).

tjpackers
03-28-2008, 11:38 AM
I Think Thompson Should have won this award he has had very good drafts and finds talent (Ryan Grant was probably an accident but it was a good pick)

DawgBone
03-28-2008, 11:44 AM
If anyone is whining its you. You have been whining for the last 2-3 pages, but you think Ted Thompson is the right choice for the award. It just doesn't make sense...

I think Ted Thompson was the best choice. But I also used anti-packer arguements for other candidtates. When 6 of the last 10 posters on this thread are packers fans how do you think they will take my opinions?

DawgBone
03-28-2008, 11:45 AM
That right there shows a clear mastery of the English language.

Great post glad you could contribute.

tjpackers
03-28-2008, 11:47 AM
You actually counted How ***

DawgBone
03-28-2008, 11:48 AM
You actually counted How ***

This just made the good packer fans on this board look bad.

Sniper
03-28-2008, 01:04 PM
Great post glad you could contribute.

Terrific response, glad you were able to show us that you can write a legible and coherent response. By the way, your rep doesn't do jack **** so you might as well not use it.

Same to you tjpackers.

Turtlepower
03-28-2008, 01:13 PM
As far as the last decade, I think the most overlooked front office has to be the Eagles. Just look at the job they have done with the talent that they have.

Also, let's be more of a family at Christmas on this forum rather than one at Thanksgiving.

umphrey
03-28-2008, 02:11 PM
As far as the last decade, I think the most overlooked front office has to be the Eagles. Just look at the job they have done with the talent that they have.

Assuming you are saying that they have poor talent, that doesn't really make sense. If their talent level is low then their front office is to blame for not bringing in good players. They have a lot of playmakers but not great overall talent. They did a decent job of building up the lines but you have to wonder what McNabb would have done with decent receivers. Their offense is too reliant on Westbrook.

Turtlepower
03-28-2008, 02:12 PM
Assuming you are saying that they have poor talent, that doesn't really make sense. If their talent level is low then their front office is to blame for not bringing in good players. They have a lot of playmakers but not great overall talent. They did a decent job of building up the lines but you have to wonder what McNabb would have done with decent receivers. Their offense is too reliant on Westbrook.

Well you make a good point and to that I don't have a rebuttal. I concede defeat. =D