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View Full Version : Kentwan Blamer Vs. Dre Moore


BoltHype
03-27-2008, 10:57 PM
You'll often see mock drafts where the Chargers are selecting Defensive Tackle Kentwan Balmer with the 27th overall pick. On one hand, I'm glad people realize the Chargers need to address depth along the defensive line. But at the same time, I wonder why Balmer is rated so highly - a sure fire first rounder - and yet a very similar type of player in Dre Moore is rated so low.

Lets compare the two and get a closer look at their similarities:

DT Kentwan Blamer - 6'4" 308lbs

Junior and Senior Seasons
2006 GP: 10 TKL: 16 TFL: 2.5 SCK: 2.5
2007 GP: 12 TKL: 59 TFL: 9.5 SCK: 3.5

Combine Stats:
40 Yrd Dash: 5.29
20 Yrd Dash: 3.04
10 Yrd Dash: 1.71
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 33
Vertical Jump: 29
Broad Jump: 08'07"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.82
3-Cone Drill: 7.65


DT Dre Moore - 6'4" 305lbs

Junior and Senior Seasons
2006 GP: 13 TKL: 47 TFL: 7.5 SCK: 3.5
2007 GP: 13 TKL: 63 TFL: 8.5 SCK: 6.0

Combine Stats:
40 Yrd Dash: 4.84
20 Yrd Dash: 2.70
10 Yrd Dash: 1.62
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 31
Vertical Jump: 28
Broad Jump: 08'09"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.55
3-Cone Drill: 7.73

So let me get this straight...Dre Moore is just as big and strong as Kentwan Balmer but also quicker and faster. Moore had a better college career statistically and yet he is rated far lower than Balmer is almost every draft publication and website. And to top it all off, they played in the same conference! I'm sorry, but I just don't understand why Moore doesn't get the love he deserves. In a draft class that isn't particularly deep at defensive tackle, I rate Moore as the third best DT... right behind Sedrick Ellis and Glenn Dorsey.

jnew76
03-27-2008, 11:09 PM
Personally, I don't think the Chargers will ever make a pick in round 1 considering they don't pick again until the 5th if I am not mistaken. I think you have a very good argument with regards with the statistical analysis and athletic comparisons and I have never been as high on Balmer as many of the people on TV. I think that sentiment is shared predominantly on this board.

I think that the Chargers will trade down with someone who wants to secure the services of say Brian Brohm.

neko4
03-27-2008, 11:10 PM
Ive liked Moore alot too (Maryland fan) so i like that you brought this to light

ChezPower4
03-27-2008, 11:17 PM
Moore is a great physical specimen and a great athlete for his size but as we all know great measurables and awesome workout numbers do not make a great player. Moore is no different if he does not play more consistant then he will be a bust. Most people that follow the draft know that Dre Moore can play but it's about how often is he going to give all out effort which is what he must due in order to do well in the NFL.

BoltHype
03-27-2008, 11:20 PM
Moore is a great physical specimen and a great athlete for his size but as we all know great measurables and awesome workout numbers do not make a great player. Moore is no different if he does not play more consistant then he will be a bust. Most people that follow the draft know that Dre Moore can play but it's about how often is he going to give all out effort which is what he must due in order to do well in the NFL.

consistency is the same knock on Balmer and yet Moore has been consistently improving over the past two seasons whereas Balmer only had one good year, and then didn't go at the Senior Bowl AND skipped his team's pro day....

JagHombre22
03-27-2008, 11:26 PM
I think we should be comparing Laws and Balmer....I think Moore sneaks into the second round but both Balmer and Laws could go in the 1st...

energizerbunny
03-28-2008, 12:02 AM
I think we should be comparing Laws and Balmer....I think Moore sneaks into the second round but both Balmer and Laws could go in the 1st...

Chargers drafting Trevor Laws to play in a 34 defense would be like drafting Early Doucett to play QB.

doingthisinsteadofwork
03-28-2008, 12:25 AM
Marcus Harrison>Dre Moore and Kentwan Balmer.

Paranoidmoonduck
03-28-2008, 12:27 AM
Chargers drafting Trevor Laws to play in a 34 defense would be like drafting Early Doucett to play QB.

Trevor Laws was easily the best thing about that Notre Dame defense and it's shift to the 3-4. His skillset is that of an defensive tackle, but he did a really bang-up job playing defensive end on that defense last season.

SchizophrenicBatman
03-28-2008, 12:38 AM
Dre Moore is rated right where he should be.

The problem is that Kentwan Balmer is massively overrated

Scott Wright
03-28-2008, 12:38 AM
Chargers drafting Trevor Laws to play in a 34 defense would be like drafting Early Doucett to play QB.

That doesn't make any sense. Laws played end in a 3-4 defense as a senior and was outstanding. He could easily fit in a 34 at the next level.

GB12
03-28-2008, 12:41 AM
Chargers drafting Trevor Laws to play in a 34 defense would be like drafting Early Doucett to play QB.

That doesn't make any sense. Laws played end in a 3-4 defense as a senior and was outstanding. He could easily fit in a 34 at the next level.
http://img321.imageshack.us/img321/635/pooh20owned2qm.jpg

toonsterwu
03-28-2008, 12:51 AM
The old Laws debate reminds me of a dearly departed board member.

Anyhow, I don't think they are rated that differently. From around 20-60, you have a lot of guys that grade fairly closely.

So, why do people give the edge to Balmer over Moore? Personally, I'm not a fan of Moore. I think the reason Balmer is getting the advantage is

a) Frame potential - He can probably play at 320 and not lose much of his current athletic ability.

b) More consistent senior season - while Moore improved in consistency, he still was off and on a bit.

c) More polished - Balmer's considered to be technically better along with better recognition

There's a couple more comments that can be made, but the gist of it comes down to a belief that Balmer is more ready to help next year.

Btw, I don't think the Chargers need 3-4 DE depth. You resigned Bingham and there's also Cesaire. A backup 3-4 NT could be a consideration, although secondary and OT should rank higher than that, in my opinion. Even then, there's Brandon McKinney there.

neko4
03-28-2008, 01:02 AM
a) Frame potential - He can probably play at 320 and not lose much of his current athletic ability.

.
But how likely is it that he gains 20 pounds?
I pretty much remember the knock on Dre Moore being production, well he was pretty productive this year

art vandelay
03-28-2008, 01:07 AM
Dre Moore is rated right where he should be.

The problem is that Kentwan Balmer is massively overrated

Agreed 100%. Balmer scares the crap out of me. I can see why scouts like him but he just screams boom/bust and I think he will bust.

neko4
03-28-2008, 01:12 AM
edit nevermind


I was gonna try and pull off one last rick roll for the day, but i'll save it for later

defensiveback23
03-28-2008, 01:15 AM
I don't like either of them for the Chargers. I think that the DL need is getting way overblown. I agree that they do need to start thinking about Williams' replacement but finding a good 3-4 NT is much easier said than done. It is one of the hardest positions to fill in football. If I'm not mistaken Vince Wilfork was the last great NT to come out of the draft, and that's back in 04'. There isn't a player in this draft that profiles as a great NT and will be on the board at 27.

DE isn't a first round need because behind Olshansky/Castillo are good backups in Bingham and Cesaire. They have both been signed to extensions due to their good play. The best argument I've heard for drafting a DE high is because both starters are approaching free agency. The front office has a great track record with re-signing core players to team friendly deals and has a good deal of cap room available so it would be surprising to see either leave. Even if Olshansky does leave after this season the team can wait to draft a player next year due to more pressing needs this year.

Both of these players scream bust and don't seem like AJ Smith picks on top of all this.

BoltHype
03-28-2008, 01:42 AM
The idea is that you draft a guy who can play outside at DE and has the frame and ability to add size down the road to play inside in the 3-4. you want to guy to gain weight the right way (nutrition and training) and not by eating lots of cheeseburgers. it takes time to groom into a nose guard and jamal williams himself did not play nose until the chargers switched to the 3-4 under Wade Phillips. Jamal was already on the team for a number of years before the 3-4 was implemented.

JagHombre22
03-28-2008, 01:52 AM
I could easily see the Dolphins selecting Trevor Laws with the 32nd pick to play DE in their new 3-4 scheme...

I don't understand why any Charger fan would not want him?

edgrenade
03-28-2008, 03:07 AM
I came away really liking Moore after the Senior Bowl, and to top it off, he had a really good combine.

Abaddon
03-28-2008, 03:41 AM
I could easily see the Dolphins selecting Trevor Laws with the 32nd pick to play DE in their new 3-4 scheme...

I don't understand why any Charger fan would not want him?
Because, as toon already stated, they're 4 deep with capable-to-great 34 ends. Laws isn't a 34 nose, so what possible purpose would they have for taking him? Or Balmer or Moore, for that matter.

Now, if they view Igor as the future, post-Jamal NT, then there might be an argument to be made. But even then, Rd1 seems kinda high when you consider their issues at safety and offensive tackle.

toonsterwu
03-28-2008, 04:20 AM
The idea is that you draft a guy who can play outside at DE and has the frame and ability to add size down the road to play inside in the 3-4. you want to guy to gain weight the right way (nutrition and training) and not by eating lots of cheeseburgers. it takes time to groom into a nose guard and jamal williams himself did not play nose until the chargers switched to the 3-4 under Wade Phillips. Jamal was already on the team for a number of years before the 3-4 was implemented.

I think that the fact that there is

a) a lack of picks
b) a team built to win now

would potentially discourage the idea of spending a first rounder on what you essentially note would be a developmental nod, particularly when neither Balmer or Moore project that great for 3-4 NT.

skinzzfan25
03-28-2008, 05:40 AM
I'll like Moore better because I'm a terps fan, but that 10 yarder is a big difference IMO. That just shows Moore has that sick jump off of the line. I wonder what Laws' 10 yarder was?

bitonti
03-28-2008, 01:21 PM
put a gun to my head and ask me to select between Moore and Ballmer

Ill pick Moore every time. he runs a 4.8 and makes a ton of plays for the Terps. Hes got some improvement to do on the physical side of things but he can make that improvement. Moore is a better penetrator but can also clog gaps, Ballmer is basically just a gap clogger.

ps- It wouldn't be insane to see the Skins reach for Moore at 21. Snyder is a terp and he has to know what they think of this guy.

Bobo
03-28-2008, 06:15 PM
I'd take Moore over Balmer. Didn't realize the measurables/stats were mostly in Moore's favor, but Moore just looked better on the field to me. Moore didn't get blown up much, and looked quite a bit quicker to me than Balmer. Balmer is supposed to be very strong, but I don't think he looked stronger than Moore to me. I'd take Laws above Balmer from what I saw as well.

BoltHype
03-28-2008, 07:17 PM
the other thing I like about Dre Moore is that he participated at the senior bowl and Maryland's pro day whereas Balmer didn't play in the senior bowl because of some injury and he also skipped UNC's scheduled pro day...

toonsterwu
03-28-2008, 07:51 PM
Just to be clear, Balmer got hurt at the Senior Bowl. It wasn't as if he was ducking the Senior Bowl. He got hurt during the week of practice, and often times, the decision as to whether a player should play in that situation is partly with the coaches that are there who don't want to see these kids get hurt.

BoltHype
03-28-2008, 11:21 PM
Just to be clear, Balmer got hurt at the Senior Bowl. It wasn't as if he was ducking the Senior Bowl. He got hurt during the week of practice, and often times, the decision as to whether a player should play in that situation is partly with the coaches that are there who don't want to see these kids get hurt.

yea I understand that but when you see guys like Limas Sweed giving it a go, and you see Balmer bow out...and then skip his team's pro day...I dunno, questions about passion and competitiveness are bound to creep in...

toonsterwu
03-29-2008, 01:29 AM
Huh? Why would Balmer's desire to play come into question? Sweed's injury was during the season and he was sufficiently healed for the Senior Bowl. Balmer's injury happened on Monday of Senior Bowl week and was a justifiable reason for people, whether it be coaches or agents, to ask him to back out. There were reports that he had a noticeable limp. Asking him to play would've been wrong.

Furthermore, UNC's pro day isn't until April 1st. Not sure where you are getting this skip his team's pro day stuff just yet.

BoltHype
03-29-2008, 12:16 PM
03/05/08 - NFL scouts brought their scrutiny and their stopwatches to Chapel Hill on Tuesday for Pro Timing Day at the Navy Practice Fields to assess the Tar Heel talent worthy of April's NFL draft. The athletes ran through 40-yard dashes, 10-yard shuttles and a variety of cone and skill drills. Participants included defensive end/linebacker Hilee Taylor, placekicker Connor Barth defensive tackle Kyndraus Guy, defensive back Kendric Willliams and long snappers Michael Murphy and Ryan Baucom. Defensive tackle Kentwan Balmer, a universally projected first-round pick, and linebacker Durell Mapp, who tied for third-best for his position at the combine with 27 reps of 225 pounds on the bench press, scheduled a more exclusive workout in April as the school's top two prospects. - Gabe Hiatt, Daily Tar Heel

toonsterwu
03-29-2008, 12:35 PM
Okay, so they opted against performing at that first pro day? I'm not sure why that's the biggest deal. It's not as if they aren't performing at all. Several schools used to do two pro days. That's fallen a bit out of fashion the last few years, but it isn't anything too stunning. If scouts are willing to come to the other one, and it definitely seems that way considering many places have UNC listed as having a April 1st pro day, then I don't see how it can be a reflection on his desire, considering since he did perform at the combine, and each year, there are guys that perform at the combine and don't feel like going through it again if they feel comfortable with what they did.

on a side note, it is somewhat odd that gil brandt doesn't even mention that first pro day. He's been a bit off his game this year.

BoltHype
03-29-2008, 05:53 PM
i'm going to go ahead a say if someone drafts Balmer in round one, its going to be a reach. I hope he proves me wrong (especially if the chargers take him). i dont see balmer as one of the top 32 prospects in this draft. What has he done to deserve a rating so high?

toonsterwu
03-29-2008, 08:24 PM
I'm not even a fan of Balmer, but let me ask this a separate way - Can you name more than say, 20 prospects that are "solid firsts"? I can't. I'm not even sold there's 20. (Btw, this is all pretty normal).

What did he do to deserve a potential first round nod? First off, draft value is far different from production. Big man that have ability more often than not are well considered. But he had a strong senior year that showcased an ability to step and split real well, allowing him to collapse the pocket. He played this past year faster than he timed at the combine. He was more technically sound this past year. He plays at a solid pad level to help him in the run game.

It isn't without justification that he is rated highly. He had a good year, I'll give him that. I'm certainly wary, due to past inconsistencies, but there isn't a debate on whether or not he had a good senior season.

marks01234
03-29-2008, 11:42 PM
I'm not overly high on Blamer.

I think his senior year has been a bit overstated. The games I watch, Carolina really got beat up against the run. He has a solid first step but I wouldn't consider him quicker off the ball than Dre Moore, Pat Sims or Red Bryant.

I think he is a borderline 2nd/3rd guy. I certainly can't see how some can compare him with Dorsey and Ellis.