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View Full Version : Harvey's Stock Soaring but concerned about his mediocre vertical


DCBills
03-28-2008, 11:45 AM
So now it seems like Harvey is a likely top-10 pick.

Anybody else find it strange though that in the best measure of explosiveness - vertical leap - (28 inches), Harvey ranks very poorly for a top DE prospect. in fact looking back to last year, all but one defensive lineman drafted in the first 2 rounds (14 players, a banged up and 330 lb Alan Branch did slightly worse), including DT's had a better, and often significantly better vertical leap. Is he just a bad jumper, or does he legitimately lack the explosive athleticism that is a prerequisite to play DE at a high level in the NFL?

Dam8610
03-28-2008, 11:50 AM
I've been concerned about his athleticism since the combine, but I guess he's been doing outstandingly in positional drills. Maybe he's just one of those guys that outperforms his measurables by a great deal because of his knowledge of and savvy for the game.

Whitebull
03-28-2008, 11:59 AM
He couldn't break 4.8 in the 40 either. I like him, but you've got to show me some numbers if you're gonna crack top-15. It's not like his sack numbers and performance in college was that outstanding. He must be doing something real impressive in drills.

Solomon
03-28-2008, 12:13 PM
Don't forget that you're comparing Harvey's vert to players from 2006. This year across the board at the combine players put up lower (in many cases much lower) verticals than at their pro days. Numerous sources have confirmed that there was a measuring error at the combine.


Another thread which talks about this:

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20108

That being said his vertical and broad jump numbers were unimpressive even in relation to the other D Ends at the combine this year, combine that with his mediocre 40 time and there is reason for concern at a player considered a pass rush specialist. But in terms of quickness NFL personnel rave about him after seeing him in person. And in terms of explosiveness, while he might not be much of a leaper, on tape his first step is very explosive. Definitly a guy who outplays his numbers.

IMO Harvey may have added weight for the combine (he was reportedly closer to 262 lbs for most of the college season) and might still be getting used to moving around with that extra weight, other players like Kentwan Balmer, Calais Campbell and Ali Highsmith seemed to be in that same boat as well.

As of right now I think he is firmly the #3 DE and a top 20 pick on most boards but that's a combination of how good he is and certain circumstances as well. Teams always need pass rushers, so DEs are usually in high demand (esp after the Gaints won the superbowl in the copycat league that is the NFL). After the top 2 guys there seems to be a bit of a drop off, Groves probably projects better as an OLB and Merling is a bit of an unknown because he hasn't worked out for scouts. Harvey represents the best available option outside of the top 10 so some teams (from several reports Jacksonville, Carolina, Minny etc) are all over him.

To use a bad analagy :P say the two best looking girls at your school had long term boyfriends. All of a sudden the "hottest" girl and the one most guys would be chasing would be the cutest one that was single.

JagHombre22
03-28-2008, 12:51 PM
Harvey is a very dominant pass rusher...you can teach him how to jump better...but he does look like a top 10 pick now...I wouldn't be surprised if he went to the Bengals at #9...

A Perfect Score
03-28-2008, 01:06 PM
i dont see all the hype...harvey to me is a top 20 pick, and doesnt deserve to sniff the top 10.

He must looks like gold in those position drills cause his numbers, as you said, are unimpressive across the board. Now, numbers arent everything, but his college production wasnt exactly stunning either. Didnt he have like, 6 sacks this year? Something like that. There are plenty of other DE's who i think are more deserving to go ahead of him...in fact, i have him as my #5 DE

1.Gholston
2. Long
3. Groves
4. Merling
5. Harvey
6. Ellis

At the beginning of the year, i haad ellis above harvey, and right now, its starting to look like that again. Im sorry, i just dont see all the hype around harvey, and i would not touch him in the top 10 with many more suitable players. He offers absolutely NOTHING on run downs, is weak at the POA, and as has been stated above, there can now be questions about his explosion and athleticism. Would you want to spend a top 10 pick on him?

Sorry, ive been wanting to say that for a long time lol. Im not a fan of Harvey at all, and i think hes grossly overrated.

MidwayMonster31
03-28-2008, 01:08 PM
With Merling undergoing surgery, Harvey could be the third end. There could be a run on defensive ends early if the Dolphins go with Chris Long or Vernon Gholston.

Sniper
03-28-2008, 01:09 PM
Harvey is a very dominant pass rusher...you can teach him how to jump better...but he does look like a top 10 pick now...I wouldn't be surprised if he went to the Bengals at #9...

Oh I know he is SO dominant. I mean, look at his UNBELIEVABLE 8.5 sacks this year. 2 of which were against the mighty Western Kentucky Hilltoppers, 2 of which came against a guard playing RT in Stephen Schilling. WOW I am absolutely BLOWN AWAY by his dominance.

bitonti
03-28-2008, 01:13 PM
in terms of football performance (not physical upside) I like Derrick Harvey better than Gholston. He played in a better conference against better competition with less help. And he actually played well in teh BCS champ game, instead of some people who went 1/2 speed and tried not to get hurt.

princefielder28
03-28-2008, 01:13 PM
If he didn't have the performance that he did in the National Championship Game against Ohio State then I think most people see him as a late 1st and early 2nd value guy, but many people are still living that performance and ignoring the 8.5 sacks he had this year...and people are expecting him to be an elite pass rusher, NO WAY!

bitonti
03-28-2008, 01:16 PM
If he didn't have the performance that he did in the National Championship Game against Ohio State then I think most people see him as a late 1st and early 2nd value guy, but many people are still living that performance and ignoring the 8.5 sacks he had this year...and people are expecting him to be an elite pass rusher, NO WAY!

ask any scout (or even any die hard Gator fan) who was better Jarvis Moss or Derrick Harvey? and they will all say Harvey. Moss went 17 or so that means Harvey has to go higher.

princefielder28
03-28-2008, 01:18 PM
ask any scout (or even any die hard Gator fan) who was better Jarvis Moss or Derrick Harvey? and they will all say Harvey. Moss went 17 or so that means Harvey has to go higher.

are those the same scouts that think Matt Ryan is a "Franchise QB?"

I don't really care what Gator fans think either because they don't have an outsiders opinion...people continue to live that ONE game instead of taking in the entire resume

bitonti
03-28-2008, 01:23 PM
are those the same scouts that think Matt Ryan is a "Franchise QB?"

I don't really care what Gator fans think either because they don't have an outsiders opinion...people continue to live that ONE game instead of taking in the entire resume

please name one other Gators lineman who takes the pressure off of Harvey.

he does what he does by himself, facing double teams.

He had that great game against OSU, thought about declaring, and the scouts sat him down and told him he had to work on his run defense.

What did he do but exactly that. The guy is coachable, hard working and a football player. He's not a workout warrior he's a football player.

A Perfect Score
03-28-2008, 01:24 PM
ask any scout (or even any die hard Gator fan) who was better Jarvis Moss or Derrick Harvey? and they will all say Harvey. Moss went 17 or so that means Harvey has to go higher

that is without doubt the most unintelligent statement regarding the draft i have ever heard...think about that for just one second. Your saying that because moss went at 17, it means harvey HAS to go higher. ok bud...like thats just stupid. There are a multitude of reasons that suggest harvey might go after 17...what if the value is there? what if there are plenty of DE's better in this class and there wasnt in moss's class? what if there is a select #of teams with a need at DE, and harvey just misses out on those teams? what if, for some reason, harvey just slides past 17?

Like, for real dude, you just made yourself sound like a huge tool. Thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard...

bitonti
03-28-2008, 01:27 PM
Like, for real dude, you just made yourself sound like a huge tool. Thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard...

ok buddy im gonna book mark this thread, when draft day comes and Derrick Harvey goes higher than 17 what are you gonna do then? assign more bad rep?

A Perfect Score
03-28-2008, 01:29 PM
ok buddy im gonna book mark this thread, when draft day comes and Derrick Harvey goes higher than 17 what are you gonna do then? assign more bad rep?

by all means man, im not saying he WONT go before 17, but you saying he HAS to go before 17 is just a sad excuse for logic. Now, if you were to say, if derrick harvey was in last years draft then he would have gone before jarvis moss at 17, that makes sense...but to suggest that Harvey HAS to go before 17 simply because moss did is just stupid. Lik beyond stupid actually.

princefielder28
03-28-2008, 01:33 PM
ok buddy im gonna book mark this thread, when draft day comes and Derrick Harvey goes higher than 17 what are you gonna do then? assign more bad rep?

He will certainly go in the Top 17....does he deserve to??? Maybe because teams may reach to fill needs....does his talent suggest Top 17??? Probably not....

JT Jag
03-28-2008, 01:44 PM
ask any scout (or even any die hard Gator fan) who was better Jarvis Moss or Derrick Harvey? and they will all say Harvey. Moss went 17 or so that means Harvey has to go higher.I just asked my friend, a die-hard Gator fan, this very question to test your claim.

He said Moss. "Guy could do it all".

JagHombre22
03-28-2008, 01:58 PM
Oh I know he is SO dominant. I mean, look at his UNBELIEVABLE 8.5 sacks this year. 2 of which were against the mighty Western Kentucky Hilltoppers, 2 of which came against a guard playing RT in Stephen Schilling. WOW I am absolutely BLOWN AWAY by his dominance.

and I am blown away by your ignorance...

so there...

JagHombre22
03-28-2008, 02:00 PM
I just asked my friend, a die-hard Gator fan, this very question to test your claim.

He said Moss. "Guy could do it all".

I am a die hard gator fan and I say Harvey is the better all around DE...harvey plays the run better...

Crazy_Chris
03-28-2008, 02:24 PM
I hope Harvey makes it to #17 he would look great as a Viking.

foozball
03-28-2008, 02:28 PM
have to remember that there was a combine error in the vert

add 4-5 inches and its a decent vert at 32-33 inches

BoltHype
03-28-2008, 03:36 PM
he has skinny legs....anyone have mathias kiwanuka's numbers? or jarvis moss? those guys have skinny lower bodies as well...

Paranoidmoonduck
03-28-2008, 03:39 PM
Is Harvey's stock really soaring? He's always kinda been in that 10-20 range, and this offseason really hasn't changed that. Maybe he slips into the top 10, but the only place I see it being possible is Cincinatti at #9, and even then, after giving Odom that big contract, that seems unlikely.

619
03-28-2008, 03:39 PM
He added quite a bit of weight in the offseason. Don't know if that played any factor in his mediocre vertical.

asmitty45
03-28-2008, 03:45 PM
I would love to have him at 15, i dont care if he cant even jump the kid knows how to play the position.

Sniper
03-29-2008, 07:13 AM
and I am blown away by your ignorance...

so there...

Sorry I shot your argument to ****. Dominant pass rushers don't only get 8.5 sacks.

flave1969
03-29-2008, 07:29 AM
Looking at his performance in the positional drills at the Combine, he seems to have the mobility to play the position.

I think that in this years draft his projected draft position is pretty fair.