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AtariBigby
03-28-2008, 07:36 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/football/nfl/03/27/risers.sliders/index.html

Every year, there are a handful of players who's STOPWATCH times and/or weightbench reps amazingly FOOL the scouts or GMs and make them forget about the player's ACTUAL PERFORMACE in the FOOTBALL FIELD against fellow PLAYERS.

Justin King sounds like this year's Mike Mamula. If my Packers are fooled into taking him over, say, Mike Jenkins or Antoine Cason, I will puke.


King has been building a buzz since the combine and continued the momentum through his pro-day more than a week ago. He ran in the low 4.3s at the combine then looked outstanding in position drills during his individual workout. King comes off a disappointing junior season and was graded as a third rounder after he declared for the draft. Scouts are rethinking that opinion as King's combination of athleticism, intelligence (he graduated from PSU early) as well as his high character now has him on the verge of breaking into in the first round.

BaLLiN
03-28-2008, 07:43 PM
uhm do you have a person actually saying this quote? Do you have a link to this knowledge? Because #1 i doubt that Mike Jenkins will fall to you, #2 There is a good chance that Green Bay could get King in the 2nd round

Cashmoney
03-28-2008, 07:45 PM
Yea. well at least King was projected as a 3rd rounder at least. Chris Henry cracked mid-second round when he shouldn't have been touched before the sixth.

toonsterwu
03-28-2008, 07:48 PM
To suggest that King is Mamula is somewhat off iin that, well, Mamula's top workout wasn't necessarily expected, whereas everyone knew Justin King was physically gifted. To me, that implies that scouts are reevaluating his junior year while also looking at his sophomore year. While I agree he shouldn't go first, there is some feeling that he's in that late first-mid 2nd range. Now, one thing to keep in mind is that there's a bunch from, say, 20-60 that's graded fairly closely right now. One other note is that the evaluation committee is considered conservative unless you are a top talent (and even then, witness the 2nd round grade given to Gholston.)

Btw, the chances of Mike Jenkins falling to late first is very iffy. the early 20's? certainly possible. Late first? Don't see it. He could still go in the top 16.

AtariBigby
03-28-2008, 07:53 PM
I provided the link already in the initial post.

Mel Kiper mentioned a guy like a Mike Jenkins falling to Green Bay in his Packers on the Clock a week or so ago..... he's not psychic either, but neither are we.
Plenty of Guys go way higher and lower than they should.

Nobody knew that Randy Moss would last til pick 20-something. Nobody knew that Thurman Thomas would slide out of round 1. Nobody knew 5 other QBs would be taken before Dan Marino, etc......

I'll take Cason if Jenkins is gone though.....Cason never had a bad year like King did. Kind got torched by a lot worse WRs then he will be seeing on Sundays. Speed doesn't mean everything. Look up Ahmad Carroll, our former first round bust, taken because of his physical skills, not his cover ability.

foozball
03-28-2008, 08:07 PM
king is still loaded with upside though. he may lack experience and technique, but he relies on his natural gifts which means that once he does learn the proper technique, he could be very good. he's got prototypical size at 5'11 190lbs and top level speed. you have to remember, not every player coming out of the draft is a finished product yet. he's somewhat of a project, but its worth the risk IMO as a 2nd rounder to take him.

AtariBigby
03-28-2008, 08:19 PM
king is still loaded with upside though. he may lack experience and technique, but he relies on his natural gifts which means that once he does learn the proper technique, he could be very good. he's got prototypical size at 5'11 190lbs and top level speed. you have to remember, not every player coming out of the draft is a finished product yet. he's somewhat of a project, but its worth the risk IMO as a 2nd rounder to take him.


Agreed.... I'd be okay with him in the 2nd round, which we have TWO of.
But if a guy doesn't know how to cover by now, I don't hold out hope that he'll figure it out in the NFL, especially from our DB coach who sucks. Kurt Schottenheimer is the guy.

Santonio10
03-28-2008, 08:19 PM
Being a PSU fan and watching every game since his junior year, i know that Justin King can be a good player in this league. He has all of the tools to be great. People complain because he didnt have a great junior year, but they tend to forget that he was hurt almost the WHOLE year with a shoulder injury that really affected his play. If you want to see Justin at his best, look at his sophomore game film. He shut down everyone he went against including Robert Meachem, Ted Ginn, and a few other pretty good receivers. King will be a good player, with a little coaching. PSU plays a soft zone almost every down and king is a corner that needs to play man to man. So all he needs is some coaching. The kid is smart and has good work ethic so i personally think he will be fine in the NFL. That might seem a little homerish but oh well, he can be good.

neko4
03-28-2008, 08:24 PM
uhm do you have a person actually saying this quote? Do you have a link to this knowledge? Because #1 i doubt that Mike Jenkins will fall to you, #2 There is a good chance that Green Bay could get King in the 2nd round
Never liked King. I'll be pissed if we draft him

AtariBigby
03-28-2008, 08:31 PM
Being a PSU fan and watching every game since his junior year, i know that Justin King can be a good player in this league. He has all of the tools to be great. People complain because he didnt have a great junior year, but they tend to forget that he was hurt almost the WHOLE year with a shoulder injury that really affected his play. If you want to see Justin at his best, look at his sophomore game film. He shut down everyone he went against including Robert Meachem, Ted Ginn, and a few other pretty good receivers. King will be a good player, with a little coaching. PSU plays a soft zone almost every down and king is a corner that needs to play man to man. So all he needs is some coaching. The kid is smart and has good work ethic so i personally think he will be fine in the NFL. That might seem a little homerish but oh well, he can be good.

That's what we play in Green Bay BABY, man to man press coverage, clutch and grab, maul and assault, mug and molest until the zebras are out of flags.......... give me the fast King in round 2 then, and let me take the best OL in round one.

Scott Wright
03-28-2008, 08:32 PM
I have actually been a fan of King for a while and even had him ranked ahead of Brandon Flowers pre-Combine.

Remember, the NFL is very cautious with their underclassmen projections so if they told him 3rd round that probably means at least 2nd. Now I certainly wouldn't take him in the first round but I have no problems with him in round two, maybe even early in round two. The guy has the physical tools of a Top 10 overall pick and I firmly believe that had he gone back for his senior year he would have been a first round pick and in the mix to be the top corner chosen in '09.

Paranoidmoonduck
03-28-2008, 08:36 PM
Personally, I wouldn't touch King at all, but I've seen too many quick corners get lost trying to cover at the NFL level (one of the perks of being a Raider fan). I was never very impressed with King at Penn State, and I actually thought he did a better job playing wide receiver as a freshman than any stint where I got to see him play corner.

AtariBigby
03-28-2008, 08:37 PM
I have actually been a fan of King for a while and even had him ranked ahead of Brandon Flowers pre-Combine.

Remember, the NFL is very cautious with their underclassmen projections so if they told him 3rd round that probably means at least 2nd. Now I certainly wouldn't take him in the first round but I have no problems with him in round two, maybe even early in round two. The guy has the physical tools of a Top 10 overall pick and I firmly believe that had he gone back for his senior year he would have been a first round pick and in the mix to be the top corner chosen in '09.

-From the CHIEF !
Okay Scott, slide him to the Packers pick from Cleveland then, in round two, and give us the best OL at pick #30.
We'll take the best available tight end with our 3rd pick, late in round two.

King can learn from Al Harris, and be ready a year or two down the line..... while Will Blackmon keeps getting hurt.

Turtlepower
03-28-2008, 08:41 PM
Here is another video of a prospect who will definitely fool a bunch of teams:

Try to guess who it is by the video...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU

neko4
03-28-2008, 08:42 PM
Here is another video of a prospect who will definitely fool a bunch of teams:

Try to guess who it is by the video...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU

Ethan Albright?
Oh wait, Matt Ryan


Damn i got rick rolled

Bobo
03-28-2008, 08:46 PM
I have nothing of use to add other than Atari Bigby has to be near the tops of all time coolest NFL names.

AtariBigby
03-28-2008, 08:49 PM
I have nothing of use to add other than Atari Bigby has to be near the tops of all time coolest NFL names.

Agree.... that's why I own AtariBigby.com
(just need to figure out how to get a website launched for him......, any technical helpers, PM me thanks.... i can design, just don't know web stuff)

bam bam
03-28-2008, 10:45 PM
Agree.... that's why I own AtariBigby.com
(just need to figure out how to get a website launched for him......, any technical helpers, PM me thanks.... i can design, just don't know web stuff)

I really hope that you are:
A) Atari Bigby himself or
B) A female

Geo
03-29-2008, 12:45 AM
Remember, the NFL is very cautious with their underclassmen projections so if they told him 3rd round that probably means at least 2nd.
I think I read that Vernon Gholston was given a 2nd round projection - if that in fact happened, goes to show.

VoteLynnSwan
03-29-2008, 01:18 AM
Here is another video of a prospect who will definitely fool a bunch of teams:

Try to guess who it is by the video...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU

bastard. first i get rickrolled by scott... then i get never ending rickrolled... now this... when will it end!?

Yatta!
03-29-2008, 03:30 AM
I think this is a fair point. King undoubtedly has talent but he should not be a first round pick and imo most Packers fans would definitely prefer to go BPA in the 1st. I would much prefer someone like Godfrey or Cason over King anyway.

underscore
03-29-2008, 07:18 AM
King was put in an awful position this year by his coaches. He was put in a scheme in which he wasn't allowed to play a press coverage and was forced to rely on two awful safeties for help. Meanwhile, his soph year, he was allowed to play a more aggressive scheme and had better safety help.

That doesn't totally excuse his poor play, but, it did contribute a lot. And in my not so educated humble opinion, the reason he didn't come back for his senior year was because it'd be a repeat of his junior year, in terms of scheme and bad safety play.

thebow305
03-29-2008, 02:17 PM
I've always loved King as a prospect. I would love to have him in the 2nd, even at #33, no problem there at all! He's just a little raw after playing Wideout full-time as a freshman, but thi guy was the top rated corner coming out of high school. He will be a lockdown corner in this league with the right coaching, no doubt in my mind.

Sniper
03-29-2008, 02:22 PM
King was put in an awful position this year by his coaches. He was put in a scheme in which he wasn't allowed to play a press coverage and was forced to rely on two awful safeties for help. Meanwhile, his soph year, he was allowed to play a more aggressive scheme and had better safety help.

That doesn't totally excuse his poor play, but, it did contribute a lot. And in my not so educated humble opinion, the reason he didn't come back for his senior year was because it'd be a repeat of his junior year, in terms of scheme and bad safety play.

QFT. I think King is a smooth cover corner, but he can't be trusted in soft zone. Most of James Hardy's and Brian Robiskie's catches this year against him were in soft zone. He's listed at 185 but looks 165, meaning he could stand to add some weight and some upper body strength. He's not a bad player he just needs to add weight and ball skills.

The Legend
03-29-2008, 03:06 PM
I have actually been a fan of King for a while and even had him ranked ahead of Brandon Flowers pre-Combine.

Remember, the NFL is very cautious with their underclassmen projections so if they told him 3rd round that probably means at least 2nd. Now I certainly wouldn't take him in the first round but I have no problems with him in round two, maybe even early in round two. The guy has the physical tools of a Top 10 overall pick and I firmly believe that had he gone back for his senior year he would have been a first round pick and in the mix to be the top corner chosen in '09.

Justin King i think is getting a bit to much love, he got burned a few times this year

what do you feel will be the best system for him, and do you really think he will be top 10

adamprez2003
03-30-2008, 05:13 AM
King is a good 2nd round prospect. I'll be amazed if he goes first round.

underscore
03-30-2008, 06:44 AM
I've always loved King as a prospect. I would love to have him in the 2nd, even at #33, no problem there at all! He's just a little raw after playing Wideout full-time as a freshman, but thi guy was the top rated corner coming out of high school. He will be a lockdown corner in this league with the right coaching, no doubt in my mind.

King played both ways his freshman year, but played mostly as a WR after Derrick Williams got hurt.

marks01234
03-30-2008, 12:36 PM
King is a good 2nd round prospect. I'll be amazed if he goes first round.

While I do think round 1 is high, I think he is a better prospect than Kelly Jennings, and Chris Gamble were. I think he is comparable to Chris Houston last year with a bit more upside and close to Jonathan Joseph's level.

His potential is outstanding so I can understand why a team would reach for him. Do you role the dice in the late first for a guy like Rashean Mathis or Nnamdi Asomugha? I think so. At the least you have a very good return man.

Billingsley26
03-30-2008, 12:55 PM
I have Dallas taking King with one of their 2 first rounder. I think Jenkins, Talib, DRC and Mckelvin are all gone by that point.

Geo
03-30-2008, 02:57 PM
I'm not a big fan of Scott putting "The Next Great 'Cane Safety" on the front page with the Kenny Phillips scouting report to be honest. Was Brandon Meriweather the last great safety from Miami? Come on, we need to stop pegging these guys with Ed Reed and Sean Taylor, two exceptional prospects who consistently made their presence felt with highly-talented squads.

Just because Craig Steltz was a good starter and warranted recognition, doesn't mean he's the next great LSU safety after Laron Landry.