Who is best poker player in the world and why?

[bucknut12]

Right now, Daniel Negreanu. He doesn't play his cards, he plays your cards because he knows what you have. He makes so many sick reads. He lays down hands not many people could lay down.

I have Phil Ivey in a close second.

[Tubby]

Phil Ivey because I know his name :)

[Charm City Byrdgang]

Phil Ivey, hes impossible to get a read off of.

[BigDawg819]

Allen Cunningham or Andy Block, both are terrific players and feared in any poker room. In hold em I give the edge to Allen, but Andy is the best all around poker player in the world hands down.

Also I like Chip Reese and Phil Helmuth

[Scotty D]

Doyle Brunson. He's just more laid back now.

[P-L]

My favorite is Phil Ivey. It's really hard to say who is the best though.

[4pAc]

whoever is good in all poker games, not just Texas Hold'em.

[thule]

Phil Helmouth (sp) because he is so emotional...and been consistantly doing it for so long.

[fenikz]

Negreanu, his ability to read people is just amazing, if i could do that my friend would be broke

[Damix]

Laak, the dude is crazy

[ny10804]

This guy (http://www.worldpokertour.com/players/?x=profile&poker-player=4942)

A homage to the former poster.

[TitleTown088]

Chip Reese or Johnny.

[Acreboy]

Allen Cunningham or Andy Block, both are terrific players and feared in any poker room. In hold em I give the edge to Allen, but Andy is the best all around poker player in the world hands down.

Also I like Chip Reese and Phil HelmuthChip Reese is the best cash game player without a doubt

[comahan]

My favorite is Phil Ivey. It's really hard to say who is the best though.

Same. I love watching Phil Ivey play, I cant say that about hardly anyone else.

[BigDawg819]

whoever is good in all poker games, not just Texas Hold'em.


Hence my mentioning of Chip Reese and Andy Block. They finished one and two at the WSOP H.O.R.S.E. event in 2006 and the consensus is that the winner is the best in the world. That makes Chip Reese the best and not many will disagree.....

[roidrunner]

Chuck Norris, enough said

[bsaza2358]

It is hard to argue about the top pros. Chip Reese is probably the most underrated player in the world because he doesn't sell himself like the other guys. Still, he plays in the big game all the time and makes millions at it.

I firmly believe that if you consistently make a lot of money at poker in mixed cash games and win big tournaments, you qualify as one of the best. My favorite player is Daniel Alaei. I love his style, and he also makes amazing reads.

[BigDawg819]

Chuck Norris, enough said

Jack Bauer > Chuck Norris

[RyanLeaf#1]

Dan Harrington made it to 2 final tables in back to back years when the fields were huge, and is a WSOP main event winner.

[bsaza2358]

Harrington is arguably the best hold 'em tournament player in the world, but that doesn't make him the best poker player. His books are incredible, but he has no bracelets in games other than Hold 'Em.

[Acreboy]

Dan Harrington made it to 2 final tables in back to back years when the fields were huge, and is a WSOP main event winner.

Well Raymer outlasted nearly twice the amount of people the year after he won the ME.

I like watching Raymer too.

He and Hachem are not going to be busts IMO.

[RyanLeaf#1]

Well Raymer outlasted nearly twice the amount of people the year after he won the ME.

I like watching Raymer too.

He and Hachem are not going to be busts IMO.

They have already proven that they arent busts.

[bsaza2358]

Well Raymer outlasted nearly twice the amount of people the year after he won the ME.

I like watching Raymer too.

He and Hachem are not going to be busts IMO.

They have already proven that they arent busts.

Agreed. Both of these guys are for real. I do note that Raymer was a well known commodity as a part-time pro in Foxwoods before he won the Main Event in 2004.

[bsaza2358]

Do you guys watch the WPT/PPT and High Stakes? It's an excellent way to watch a lot of hands and see playing styles. I'm still holding out hope for a poker cable network. I figure it's almost there. They can run card player/gambling movies, show lots of uncut feeds from the WSOP, WPT, PPT, High Stakes, etc., then there can be lessons and discussion group shows. I think it could definitely work...

[Acreboy]

Do you guys watch the WPT/PPT and High Stakes? It's an excellent way to watch a lot of hands and see playing styles. I'm still holding out hope for a poker cable network. I figure it's almost there. They can run card player/gambling movies, show lots of uncut feeds from the WSOP, WPT, PPT, High Stakes, etc., then there can be lessons and discussion group shows. I think it could definitely work...

I don't have a high paying job but i'd pay for that channel.

Anyone see the Curcuit tourney that Kido Pham won? Man Hachem made some great plays but got outdrawn against Kido's J-10 against Hachems K-K...

Also in the 2006 ME I thought Ivey was going to take it because he was the chip leader with like 3 tables to go and just made some bad reads. I look forward to seeing him rebound as well as Daniel Negreanu. By rebound I mean making for final tables.

[bsaza2358]

I'm not sure if it would be a premium channel (like the Golf Channel on DirecTV), but it would likely be an advanced cable channel for high price digital packages. It would likely cost you maybe $5 a month at best. I figure they need to build up some more archives, then develop some "how to" shows and such. They didn't really start doing the hole card cams until like 2001, and most of the pros at that time really didn't like it, so you're not going to have a ton of footage. Ideally, you'd get some footage from the 2002-2006 WSOP, the WPT Seasons 1-5, PPT Season 1 & 2, old High Stakes stuff, then a bunch of foreign broadcasts. I don't think that's enough to build a network around... I think we're close, though.

[Acreboy]

I'm not sure if it would be a premium channel (like the Golf Channel on DirecTV), but it would likely be an advanced cable channel for high price digital packages. It would likely cost you maybe $5 a month at best. I figure they need to build up some more archives, then develop some "how to" shows and such. They didn't really start doing the hole card cams until like 2001, and most of the pros at that time really didn't like it, so you're not going to have a ton of footage. Ideally, you'd get some footage from the 2002-2006 WSOP, the WPT Seasons 1-5, PPT Season 1 & 2, old High Stakes stuff, then a bunch of foreign broadcasts. I don't think that's enough to build a network around... I think we're close, though.

I remember they did show cards for the 2 times Johnny Chan won.

They didn't show it in 97 when Unger won for the 3rd time though.

Man I wish Unger could have gotten help. No one could play better than that guy. When you beat Doyle Brunsen for your first WSOP ME bracelet you know you're going to be something special.

No one will ever win the ME more than 3 times like Stu has.

[Tobzilla]

Phil Ivey - It's absolutly impossible to pick up a read on him. He's very stoic.

[RoyHall#1]

Holdem? Negreanu or Ivey
Everything? no doubt its Phil Hellmuth.

[bsaza2358]

Negraneu won a bracelet during the 2006 WSOP. Ivy didn't, but he's still only 30 years old. These guys are going to be around a long time. It's good for the game.

[snuff]

Me. akdjfaljdflakjdf(had to make 10 characters.)

[bsaza2358]

It is very hard to get a read on most of the top pros. Just because Phil Ivy looks impossible to read, it doesn't mean he is. Ivy's toughness is his aggressive nature. He bets when he has it, bets when he doesn't, and that's why he's dangerous.

The more you watch poker on TV, the more you'll realize how many great players are out there. Many of them don't market themselves like Negraneu and Brunson and Ivy.

[draftguru151]

I love Negreanu and Ivey. Only two guys I really enjoy watching.

[roidrunner]

Jack Bauer > Chuck Norris

Bauer is over-rated. Chuck Norris would rock Bauers world

[reigle9]

I remember they did show cards for the 2 times Johnny Chan won.

They didn't show it in 97 when Unger won for the 3rd time though.

Man I wish Unger could have gotten help. No one could play better than that guy. When you beat Doyle Brunsen for your first WSOP ME bracelet you know you're going to be something special.

No one will ever win the ME more than 3 times like Stu has.
Did you ever watch the Stu Unger story? It's pretty hardcore. He's the all-time greatest.

NLHE - Me, I'll be rich some day. I give it three years.

Overall - I don't care, I have no interest in watching other people play. I watch the final table of the WSOP Main Event and that covers my yearly poker viewing.

Richest (from poker winnings) - I would have to assume it's Chip Reese.

Coolest story - Ivey sneaking into AC with a fake ID when he was younger.

Side note - I'm pretty sure I saw Antonio Esfandiari at Pride 33 this weekend.

[princefielder28]

Right now, Daniel Negreanu. He doesn't play his cards, he plays your cards because he knows what you have. He makes so many sick reads. He lays down hands not many people could lay down.

I have Phil Ivey in a close second.


I agree with everything you just said there

[Acreboy]

In other news, what is the best poker book out there?

[someone447]

Raymer used to post quite a bit at 2+2 forums(a poker forum.) I think he was doing a tourney report for the WSoP the year he won. He has some very good advice.

[ATLDirtyBirds]

Chris Moneymaker.

His name is built for poker.

[Acreboy]

Chris Moneymaker.

His name is built for poker.
So is Jamie Gold but sadly even though he is taught by the great Johnny Chan I think he will be a bust just like Moneymaker.

[Im_a_Romosexual]

I like Ivey because of his playing style and hellmuth because he entertains me

[B-Dawk]

Howard Lederer is my favorite to watch.

[TheMikey10]

Phil Ivey, because he wins when its his own money, when it really matters, against high rollers in Vegas

[duckseason]

Phil Ivey, because he wins when its his own money, when it really matters, against high rollers in Vegas

He is a high roller. Most all pros do that anyway. Otherwise they wouldn't be classified as pros. From what I've seen, I agree that Ivey is probably the best. The only other guy I put on his level is Negreanu. Completely different styles of play. I think I would give the edge to Negreanu though. Mostly because he is the closest thing I've seen to a mind reader at the table, and I think Ivey has more of a tendency to pay off hands when he knows he's beat. I think most pros would say that Ivey is the best though. He seems to be the most intimidating player in the eyes of his opponents.

[bsaza2358]

In other news, what is the best poker book out there?

I have a pretty strong collection of poker books that I have accrued in the last 2 years or so.

Every poker player should read Super/System (I or II, doesn't matter really).

For tournaments, Dan Harrington's Hold 'Em Tournament Books are fantastic.

I just finished Skalansky's new Hold 'Em book and found it fantastic.

Mike Caro's Book of Poker Tells is incredibly helpful.

Phil Gordon's books are also good.

[Acreboy]

Negreanu likes to play 4s-5s out of position and just see what he can catch. He can outplay you after the flop is what makes him so dangerous.

BTW, best poker book?

[RyanLeaf#1]

Negreanu likes to play 4s-5s out of position and just see what he can catch. He can outplay you after the flop is what makes him so dangerous.

BTW, best poker book?

Dan Harringtons books are the best imo

[bsaza2358]

So is Jamie Gold but sadly even though he is taught by the great Johnny Chan I think he will be a bust just like Moneymaker.

Jamie Gold won the Main Event last year, but he wasn't nearly the best player in the tournament. He is still an intermediate player, but he can make decent reads, and his playing style and table image were very conducive to winning. If you saw the TV broadcasts, you'd see that he would talk pretty much the same way to everyone, and it confused people. He is better than people think, but not nearly as good as he thinks. I don't think he has a strong interest in being a top pro, but he is a decent player with a large bankroll. He plays okay, but he has a ton of work to do still.

[bsaza2358]

Negreanu likes to play 4s-5s out of position and just see what he can catch. He can outplay you after the flop is what makes him so dangerous.

BTW, best poker book?

Negraneu will play any two cards with a chance to do something because he plays so well after the flop. He is overexposed at this point, though. He is not necessarily the best, but he is a top player, and he has an engaging personality. He is both likable and a good player.

[RyanLeaf#1]

I dont like Negraneu at all I think he is one of the more annoying players on the circuit.

[bsaza2358]

I can't disagree with your personal preference. I think he knows a ton about the game, but I can see why you'd think that.

[art vandelay]

Annie Duke! Haha, just kidding...

Honestly it may be the "trendy" pick, but mine is also Phil Ivey aka The Natural.

[Acreboy]

Could any of you lay this hand down?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMgkZHrRaX4

[BigDawg819]

Could any of you lay this hand down?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMgkZHrRaX4

easy lay down, you Negreanu had a mid-level pair and with Farha's raise and reraise preflop shows that he had a dominant hand.....

[reigle9]

I thought Daniel was going to flop trips and Sammy laid his aces down. What's the big deal about laying 10's down?

I've laid down way better than that a million times.

[GiantRutgersFan]

To be honest, I think I am a good poker player. I think if I played professionally, I could make money.


In September I had $250 in my bank account. Since then I have played loads of poker, and Didnt have to get a job until the beginning of February (with $200 debt on my CC from buying books for the new semester)


I win a lot of money in poker, and think that I am a great player. I cant wait until I turn 21 and can play in Atlantic City

[Acreboy]

I thought Daniel was going to flop trips and Sammy laid his aces down. What's the big deal about laying 10's down?

I've laid down way better than that a million times.That was a cash game, not a tournament. You play different in cash games.

BTW, here's a really bad beat...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojeRwWIdQBM

Check out this never before seen commercial of Phil Ivey, funny as hell

http://www.holdemshirts.net/Phil-Ivey.wmv

[BigDawg819]

Could any of you lay this hand down?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMgkZHrRaX4

easy lay down, you Negreanu had a mid-level pair and with Farha's raise and reraise preflop shows that he had a dominant hand.....

[Namy]

easy lay down, you Negreanu had a mid-level pair and with Farha's raise and reraise preflop shows that he had a dominant hand.....

It wasn't an easy lay down, altho it wasn't that hard either. 10 pair is not too bad, and with such a low flop, it must've been even harder to lay it down.

[duckseason]

easy lay down, you Negreanu had a mid-level pair and with Farha's raise and reraise preflop shows that he had a dominant hand.....
No. It is actually very difficult to lay that hand down. There was $63,000 in the pot, and Farha bet $40,000 more. So Negreanu not only has an over pair, but he is getting great odds on his money if he were to call the 40k. There is really only one way to lay that hand down, and that is to put Farha on the exact hand he had. Not 2 clubs. Not a bluff. Not AK. He knows he doesn't have trips because of the early raise. Negreanu basically bet a few hundred thousand dollars that Farha had a bigger pair than him. And he was right. Many people (including other top professionals) would likely have lost a lot more money in that pot.

Another factor to consider is the loose reputation of Farha. Those aces aren't as transparent as it may seem on TV when you're going up against a guy who plays as fast as he does. You say that his preflop raise and subsequent 40k bet on the flop exposed his hand as dominant, but that is the logic of a sucker. If you can't look beneath the surface of what's in front of your face, then you will always lose in poker. It was more than just the movement of Farha's chips that told Negreanu he was beat. It's not a stop light, where green means go. With Farha especially, green often means stop. He seems to be one of the tougher players to put a finger on, thanks to his ultra aggressive/erratic (winning) style. Negreanu could sense the hook hitting the water. Farha's demeanor gave him info, and so did the 2/3 pot bet on the flop. He didn't just say to himself- "oh well, he MUST have a big pair because of that pre flop raise." If it were that easy, we'd all be playing on TV. He gathered and decoded enough info in just 1 ******, to leave 6 figures on the table even though he had what would appear to be a favored hand. He swam away from the hook even though it had a big fat ass piece of grub dangling from it. It was a very fine line between moving all his money into the middle, and just laying the hand down. There was no other option. It was just another in a long line of great reads by Negreanu. Maybe that's why it doesn't seem like it was that difficult. He deserves no less than recognition as one of the very best. To say what he does is easy, is to disrespect the game itself.


on a side note, why is m i n u t e censored?

[bsaza2358]

Duck, that is excellent analysis of the hand. Part of being a top pro and a good player is laying down those kinds of hands. It was a money-saving move. Many times it's not the pots that you win, but the ones you don't lose that make you the most.

[bsaza2358]

Let's look a little bit at Negreneu's and Farha's playing style. Both are loose, aggressive, and dangerous. I think Sammy chases a lot more and is much looser pre-flop, but both are great post-flop players. After all, when you can outplay people after the flop, why not see as many cards as possible?

In this case, we're looking at a pretty standard Farha pre-flop raise with a decent hand (he'll try to limp a lot with some junk). Daniel then reraises with his 10's for information. If Sammy is completely bluffing, he probably throws it away. If he has an okay hand, he might call. If he's dominant (A-K, A-Q suited maybe, Q's-A's), Sammy is reraising, which he did. Since Sammy and Daniel play so many hands together, Daniel probably immediately put him on that range of hands. However, Sammy's reraise gives him good enough odds (between 2.25 and 3 to 1) to call. Daniel has very high implied odds to make this call because if he hits his set on a ragged flop, he could win Sammy's entire stack.

The flop comes out rags, and Sammy bets pretty strongly at it. Daniel is pretty sure he's beaten, so he lays it down. Pretty standard play.

[reigle9]

That was a cash game, not a tournament. You play different in cash games.

BTW, here's a really bad beat...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojeRwWIdQBM

Check out this never before seen commercial of Phil Ivey, funny as hell

http://www.holdemshirts.net/Phil-Ivey.wmv

Haha, thanks for pointing out the finer points of poker to me. By no means am I some high roller but I can almost guarentee I've played in more/bigger tournaments and cash games than anyone on this board. I have screen shots of me sitting with 600-800 at party poker and that doesn't even compare with AC.

My last AC trip, I was in an almost identical hand as the pocket 10's link, only I had pocket Q's. I laid it down and showed......he had pocket k's.

***MOD EDIT***

[Acreboy]

Haha, thanks for pointing out the finer points of poker to me. By no means am I some high roller but I can almost guarentee I've played in more/bigger tournaments and cash games than anyone on this board. I have screen shots of me sitting with 600-800 at party poker (before our awesome government decided how I'm allowed to use my own money) and that doesn't even compare with AC.

My last AC trip, I was in an almost identical hand as the pocket 10's link, only I had pocket Q's. I laid it down and showed......he had pocket k's.
So that makes you better than Negreanu and Farha. Got it.

[reigle9]

So that makes you better than Negreanu and Farha. Got it.

Yep, that's exactly what I said. Damn, you're like talking to my gf.

[snuff]

Yep, that's exactly what I said. Damn, you're like talking to my gf.

Thats interesting. Your like talking to Tom Cruise yourself.

Stupid, Crazy, and no one likes you, but you still love yourself way to much.

[njx9]

are people actually bragging about their poker ability on an online forum in which it's completely impossible to verify whether they've actually ever done anything? yippee. :eye roll:

[Acreboy]

Yep, that's exactly what I said. Damn, you're like talking to my gf.

Dude, i've layed down trip aces against a flush with only 3 hearts on the board and the last heart came on the river.

Don't mean i'm a pro.

[snuff]

I layed down a straight flush to a royal flush against Phil Ivey. He then proceeded to name the greatest poker player to ever hold card and gave me a car.

[Acreboy]

I layed down a straight flush to a royal flush against Phil Ivey. He then proceeded to name the greatest poker player to ever hold card and gave me a car.
That beats me!

[BigDawg819]

That beats me!

Damn he only laughed and ridiculed me...........


Damn Phil Ivey Damn You too HELL!!!!!

[reigle9]

are people actually bragging about their poker ability on an online forum in which it's completely impossible to verify whether they've actually ever done anything? yippee. :eye roll:

Screen shots make it pretty easy to verify homeslice.

[njx9]

Screen shots make it pretty easy to verify homeslice.

yeah, never doctored one.

[reigle9]

yeah, never doctored one.

Haha, I love the internet. I forgot, I don't have them anymore since my hard drive died . I suppose I'll just go "doctor" some. Oh wait, it's impossible since Party Poker doesn't accept US players anymore.

[snuff]

yeah, never doctored one.
To be fair NJX9 I am pretty sure this guys IQ isn't above 65 meaning it is doubtful he would be smart enough to do that or think of doing that.

[bsaza2358]

Seriously, why are we even discussing who is a better poker player here? No one here is so good that they should be bragging about most of this stuff. Further discussion is valuable, but one great laydown does not a professional make. You need to win consistently in both tournaments and cash games and at different types of games to be considered the best. Period.

[bsaza2358]

Did somebody really just write "homeslice"? I wasn't aware it was 1995...

[reigle9]

I give up. Everyone is way too cool for me. I'll be at the Trop poker room actually playing if anyone wants to say hi.

[snuff]

I give up. Everyone is way too cool for me. I'll be at the Trop poker room actually playing if anyone wants to say hi.
Finally you get the message. Now you know how it feels to be inferior to reigle9 who drinks a handle of whiskey a day and the greatest man since Caesar.

[reigle9]

Finally you get the message. Now you know how it feels to be inferior to reigle9 who drinks a handle of whiskey a day and the greatest man since Caesar.

Lol, that was good. I chuckled, props. But Ceaser? Come on, you can do better than that.

[bsaza2358]

Reigle, when are you going to be in AC? I'm coming in next week for the WSOP Circuit Tourneys + Atlantic 10 Mens BBall Tournament.

[reigle9]

I go whenever pap goes, I'm not sure when he's going next. Everything is comped when I go with him, he usually just randomly calls me like the day before to tell me he's going.

Where are the Circuit Tournys? Borgota? I have no intetest in playing in them, but wouldn't mind checking it out if the big boys are there.

I had no idea the A10 played their conference tourny in AC, that would be cool. Where's that at?

[bsaza2358]

The Circuit Tournaments are at Caesar's. I'm playing in a satellite for the $1000 + $80 NLHE event on Thursday night. That starts on 3/8. Main event is 3/12-3/14, buy in is a little more than $5000. Last year, Ferguson, Raymer, and Juanda played in the event. If I cash in the $1000 event, I'll probably buy into the Main Event.

[bsaza2358]

The A-10 has a 2 year deal to do their tournament in AC at Boardwalk Hall. I'm a GW alum and season ticket holder. I've been to almost every game the last 8 seasons, so I'm a nutso fan. I'm also a gambler, so this is just an awesome situation. A-10 Tournament runs from 3/7-3/10.

[reigle9]

That's cool. I hate when people say good luck because I think there is only bad luck (being sucked out on), but good luck having no bad luck.

I'm not a big b-ball fan, but something like that would be cool. Do you buy a day pass or do you have to pay for each game? I've never been to Boardwalk Hall, I'm waiting for an MMA event to come and I'll be there.

[bsaza2358]

I don't believe in saying, "good luck" either. I'm more a fan of saying, "hope you play well". Appreciate the well wishes. I'm playing very well right now in terms of making reads of betting patterns and tells. I hope I can parlay that into some results...

I got a package via the AD's office at GW because I'm a season ticket holder. For $140, I have tickets to every game of the tournament (4 games Wednesday, 4 Thursday, 2 Friday, and the Championship Saturday). GW is currently the #4 seed in the conference, which is good. I don't think they'll win the whole thing, but I can easily scalp my ticket if they lose.

[snuff]

Good luck. I hope you get run over on the way there.

[Vikes99ej]

Good luck. I hope you get run over on the way there.

Snuff, you're such a meanie.

[snuff]

Snuff, you're such a meanie.He gave me -rep so I did some voodoo on him.

[bsaza2358]

Snuff, I sent you a PM. Perhaps you can send me one back to clarify...

[snuff]

I have received to much rep since then. You said like WTH or something.

[bsaza2358]

I apologize if it was in the wrong. Right now, I'm not allowed to give you any rep points, but when I can, you will note I will add rep to recoup the lost points.