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View Full Version : CORNERBACKS: anymore shutdown corners?


AtariBigby
03-30-2008, 05:43 PM
Is there a true "shutdown" corner in this draft? I don't see one.
In fact, I don't see any left in the NFL.

Champ Bailey? http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d803bc832
This was the Packers #3 or #4 WR, rookie, James Jones. Speed is supposed to be Jones' weakness.

DeAngelo Hall? No way.
My own Charles Woodson and Al Harris? Uh uh.
Asante Samuel or Nate Clements? Nope. They just gamble a lot and get their share of big plays. But they allow too many to be considered 'shut down' corners. Nsmadi in Oakland? No he's not a shutdown corner. He's a solid corner in his system, but he's not a shutdown.

Deion Sanders WAS a shut down corner.

THAT BEING SAID, who are the best TRUE COVER CORNERS in this draft?
Forget their supposed return skills as punt and or kick returns. I just want cover ability, plus run support.

Here's how I rank them, but in all honesty, I have never seen a full game from Troy University so my judgment of McKelvin might be off, based on hype and highlights, and also Croamartie. ESPN didn't show too many Tennessee State games.

#1- Mike Jenkins
#2- Antoine Cason
#3- Leodis McKelvin
#4- Dominique Wilkins-Rodgers-Cromartie
#5- Brandon Flowers
#6- Aqib Talib

Anyone here ever actually see any FULL GAMES of all these guys?

Remember, Al Harris, who finally made the Pro Bowl this year after gettin screwed the previous year (and THIS season he didn't deserve it as much as last year), took a few YEARS to even become a starter. He didn't start in Philly and it took a trade to Green Bay for him to get his chance. Maybe a guy like Justin King CAN LEARN how to man-up, but I don't see it yet.

etk
03-30-2008, 05:46 PM
Leodis McKelvin is a true shutdown corner with a fluid backpedal and burst to close on the ball. He's not physical and has poor ball skills but he can stay with anyone in coverage.

DRC has shutdown potential with his athletic ability.

Thunder&Lightning
03-30-2008, 06:28 PM
and i thought i used to make a lot of threads...

Yatta!
03-30-2008, 06:32 PM
Of course you're not going to find a 'shutdown' corner in this draft if you don't think there's a shutdown corner in the entire NFL. Still I think all the prospects you mentioned should become solid NFL starters.

AllDayFootball724
03-30-2008, 06:37 PM
With the pass happy league its hard to have a shut down corner. And no one had speed like PRIME TIME. He could gamble and still catch up with his speed as if he made no mistake.

JT Jag
03-30-2008, 06:37 PM
Rashean Mathis.

... I kid. He has a way to go with his coverage skills. He is one of the best ballhawks in the league, last season notwithstanding.

LonghornsLegend
03-30-2008, 06:52 PM
Leodis McKelvin is a true shutdown corner with a fluid backpedal and burst to close on the ball. He's not physical and has poor ball skills but he can stay with anyone in coverage.

DRC has shutdown potential with his athletic ability.

I agree with that, McKelvin can probably stick with anybody in a man scheme, doesnt mean he wont get beat by a wr who runs really good routes but he has the best chance out of this draft along with DRC.

doingthisinsteadofwork
03-30-2008, 07:05 PM
A solid corner in his system?You obviously havent watched Nnamdi play.

Woody56
03-30-2008, 07:12 PM
Nmandi was the definition of shutdown last season

BufFan71
03-30-2008, 07:12 PM
Nate Clements in buffalo was a shutdown CB in all but one year

skinzzfan25
03-30-2008, 07:21 PM
With the whole 5 yard no jam rule, there's no such thing as a shutdown corner anymore. Anybody is beatable.

AtariBigby
03-30-2008, 07:26 PM
With the whole 5 yard no jam rule, there's no such thing as a shutdown corner anymore. Anybody is beatable.

TRUE statement.
That has a lot to do with things in today's NFL.

Plus the other guy was right, Prime Time was special. There are not anymore Deion Sanders around......

keylime_5
03-30-2008, 07:31 PM
Thanks to the NFL putting rules in place to make it a lot easier for a WR to get open and the passing game to develop in this day and age (b/c more points in games means more viewers, which equals better ratings and more money)...and therefore true shutdown corners in the NFL are a thing of the past. But there's still really great corners who are as close to shutdown Deion Sanders corners now in the NFL like Bailey and then the 2nd tier guys below him.

BaLLiN
03-30-2008, 07:43 PM
Good job having Talib last (not sarcasm)

Really i think that there might be one or two shutdown corners in the league right now, Deion Sanders was just amazing, but you don't have to be as good as that to be considered shutdown IMO.

Nmandi was shutdown, when you only allow 9 catches and one of them was ridiculous (Reggie Wayne) in an entire season, you are shutdown. He gets average safety help and goes against great AFC WRs along with their QBs.
You could see a good corner let up 9 catches in ONE GAME. but in 16 games thats really unheard of.

Hall isnt bad, he could be considered shutdown, but in reality its borderline. I think he has good potential to become one though.

jaffe28
03-30-2008, 07:46 PM
Just a quick homer note on Champ Bailey getting burned deep that way. He was more vulnerable deep this past year than any year in his career because he was basically playing OLB for Denver. Because the front seven was so bad against the run Champ and Bly both ended up having to hold the edge against the run which made both of them late getting back sometimes.

BamaFalcon59
03-30-2008, 07:49 PM
DeAngelo Hall is as close as you can come to a shutdown cornerback nowadays. One touchdown given up last year, and was beaten in the overall matchup big once last year (Amani Toomer beat him, but he had an interception that game; gave up a TD to Joey Galloway on a sluggo route, and I think Anthony Gonzalez beat him a few times although Peyton avoided him most of the game and Hall still had an interception that game). He gets too aggressive at times, but for the most part he is amazing. He also has amazing ball skills, unlike a player such as Leodis McKelvin. DeAngelo Hall, and according to Oakland fans, Nnandi Asomugha, are the top young cornerbacks in the National Football League today. And they are on the same team. With two very good safties, two very good linebackers, a great pass rushing defensive end, and a decent interior defensive line. If they get another good defensive end that defense will be amazing.

LonghornsLegend
03-30-2008, 07:55 PM
With the whole 5 yard no jam rule, there's no such thing as a shutdown corner anymore. Anybody is beatable.

Its not like Deion used to man handle the wrs inside of 5 yards when he played...He could get up close in their face but he certainly wasnt physical to where he was jamming the wr off their route, so yes their still can be shut down corners but they dont come along every draft..People expect to see somebody with those skills all the time but they are rare, Aso was playing to that level last year, Hall could get to that level in a few years.

AtariBigby
03-30-2008, 07:56 PM
Also, there's too much zone coverage nowadays with the Cover Two schemes.... not like the old days with Mike Haynes & Lester the molester Hayes clutch & grabbing WRs right off the line of scrimmage.

Al Harris & Charles Woodson do the best, but they can get beaten.... as Plaxico Burress showed in the Arctic Bowl.

If Hall and Nmadi are that good, the Raiders should pitch a handful of shutouts this year, especially with all the money they threw at the DL Tommy Kelly. He must be great too :o)

JagHombre22
03-30-2008, 07:57 PM
I actually think Justin King could be a shut down corner...he's underrated, IMO

BaLLiN
03-30-2008, 08:00 PM
Also, there's too much zone coverage nowadays with the Cover Two schemes.... not like the old days with Mike Haynes & Lester the molester Hayes clutch & grabbing WRs right off the line of scrimmage.

Al Harris & Charles Woodson do the best, but they can get beaten.... as Plaxico Burress showed in the Arctic Bowl.

If Hall and Nmadi are that good, the Raiders should pitch a handful of shutouts this year, especially with all the money they threw at the DL Tommy Kelly. He must be great too :o)


lets hope so, if not Al Davis will look like a complete jack...

BufFan71
03-30-2008, 08:01 PM
I actually think Justin King could be a shut down corner...he's underrated, IMO

we all think
i think Terrence Wheatley could be....

but i think before i *type*

BaLLiN
03-30-2008, 08:04 PM
there is a difference between speed, athleticism, and instincts and smarts. Personally i dont think Justin King has very good smarts or instincts

proshoota25
03-30-2008, 08:16 PM
i think DRC has the potential to be the closest thing to a shutdown corner.... but also has the biggest bust element as well

BaLLiN
03-30-2008, 08:18 PM
i think DRC has the potential to be the closest thing to a shutdown corner.... but also has the biggest bust element as well

yea, he's probably one of the biggest if not THE biggest boom/bust prospect in this draft

Paranoidmoonduck
03-30-2008, 08:40 PM
One could easily argue that with the recently added restrictions on corners and the proliferation of the spread offense, there will never be a true shutdown corner again. The closest thing we have to it right now is Nnamdi Asomugha, but I want to see him in a situation where teams don't have an easy time avoiding him (whether Oakland has done enough to make that happen will be seen).

Rodgers-Cromartie breaks on the ball very well and finds it well while it's in the air, but I don't see top notch coverage skill out of the guy, nor do I see it in Jenkins, Flowers, or whoever else you can toss up, except for McKelvin. That said, McKelvin is a good ways away from reaching that level, and he'll have to prove he can make quarterbacks pay for throwing his way (by learning to catch the ball). I wouldn't be surprised if it took McKelvin as long to really break out as it took Marcus Trufant, but he's the only guy I've seen that has a shot.

BaLLiN
03-30-2008, 08:43 PM
As far as last year's CBs, i think that Darelle Revis could be a shutdown corner.

no love
03-30-2008, 08:51 PM
There have been few true "shutdown" corners in the history of the league. Whenever people talk about shutdown corners they always mention Deion... but he was the best cover corner ever. So yah, there are no shutdown corners in this draft. But guys who get the shutdown label come around once every couple of decades.

badgerbacker
03-30-2008, 09:21 PM
Jack Ikegwuonu has the ability to shut down a receiver and has done so many times. He actually tends to play better against better receivers which is why I like him so much going into the NFL. Whichever team takes a chance on him is going to get a steal.

etk
03-30-2008, 09:24 PM
Jack Ikegwuonu has the ability to shut down a receiver and has done so many times. He actually tends to play better against better receivers which is why I like him so much going into the NFL. Whichever team takes a chance on him is going to get a steal.

When I saw your name next to the thread....I knew exactly what point you would be trying to make...haha. I agree though. I didn't see as much of Wisconsin as you did but Ike always seems to shut down his opponents. I think it's ridiculous to label him as a Cover 2 guy.

Cunningham
03-30-2008, 09:25 PM
this thread sucks

Paranoidmoonduck
03-30-2008, 09:32 PM
From what I saw of Ikegwuonu, he definitely took advantage of that fact that the college rules are more lenient on corners that in the pros. I don't think his cover skills are that of what we would call an NFL shutdown corner, but if he comes back at full strength any team that takes a flyer on him in the 4th or 5th round should have a very nice corner on their hands.

BaLLiN
03-30-2008, 09:35 PM
this thread sucks

he's calling you wingboy, hurry up

wingboy2999
03-30-2008, 09:49 PM
he's calling you wingboy, hurry up

Sorry, I'm too preoccupied with your mom at the moment.

BaLLiN
03-30-2008, 09:50 PM
Sorry, I'm too preoccupied with your mom at the moment.

damn it backfired, nice one though

wingboy2999
03-30-2008, 09:53 PM
damn it backfired, nice one though

I fired into your mom's "back".

BaLLiN
03-30-2008, 10:02 PM
I fired into your mom's "back".

maybe i should stop talking

The Legend
03-30-2008, 10:02 PM
Champ of 2006
Nmandi of 2007

were as close as we can get to shutdown, there will never be another Primetime

i call it Shutdown Version 2.0

badgerbacker
03-31-2008, 01:10 AM
From what I saw of Ikegwuonu, he definitely took advantage of that fact that the college rules are more lenient on corners that in the pros. I don't think his cover skills are that of what we would call an NFL shutdown corner, but if he comes back at full strength any team that takes a flyer on him in the 4th or 5th round should have a very nice corner on their hands.You are right about him in the fact that he does get physical at times with the receivers and is sure to see his fair share of holding and PI calls in the NFL. I also agree that he's not anywhere close to Deion Sanders or anything on cover ability. I just believe he certainly has the ability to be an Al Harris type player.

The idea of a complete "shut-down" corner is basically an ideal. No corner will ever be perfect. Even Deion got beat on occasion.

thebow305
03-31-2008, 01:16 AM
TRUE statement.
That has a lot to do with things in today's NFL.

Plus the other guy was right, Prime Time was special. There are not anymore Deion Sanders around......

True... There are no SHUTDOWN corners in the NFL right now, although I do believe Antonio Cromartie could be well on his way to becoming one.

JagHombre22
03-31-2008, 01:23 AM
we all think
i think Terrence Wheatley could be....

but i think before i *type*

haha...good one...

who are you again?

tylerb929
03-31-2008, 09:13 AM
Nmandi was shutdown, when you only allow 9 catches and one of them was ridiculous (Reggie Wayne) in an entire season, you are shutdown.

How can you allow an easy pass like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaxK0ajs5DU) to be completed *sarcasm*

Sniper
03-31-2008, 09:17 AM
Jack Ikegwuonu has the ability to shut down a receiver and has done so many times. He actually tends to play better against better receivers which is why I like him so much going into the NFL. Whichever team takes a chance on him is going to get a steal.

He is so physical.....

the decider13
03-31-2008, 01:56 PM
If you are gonna use one play to say champ isnt a shutdown corner, I think I'm gonna have to pull out his whole 06 season. If you cant say that he isnt the best since deion, then idk what you think is a good corner.

Champ had ten interceptions, 21 passes deflected, NO TOUCHDOWNS given up, 86 SOLO TACKLES and 98 tackles in all.

Joyner's review on Bailey shows he was thrown at 65 times in 2006 only allowing a 4.7 yard per attempt average. The best average in the four years that Joyner has been calculating the stat. For comparative purposes; the next in line was Chris McAlister with 7.3 YPA.


Just some stats I found real quick

I'd say that is shutdown enough for me

Paranoidmoonduck
03-31-2008, 01:59 PM
If you are gonna use one play to say champ isnt a shutdown corner, I think I'm gonna have to pull out his whole 06 season. If you cant say that he isnt the best since deion, then idk what you think is a good corner.

Champ is a playmaking corner, but he isn't a shutdown corner. 2006 was a great campaign, but since coming to Denver Bailey has actually been exposed as not playing the deep ball particularly well. When he first came over from the NFC, he was the single most targeted corner in the AFC his first year, and had some really poor games. Champ has great ball skills and breaks on the ball as well as anyone in the NFL, but I don't think he's the top cover man by any stretch of the imagination.

Not to be a Raider homer, but if you take shutdown for what it means (taking a guy completely out of a game), Asomugha would be the closest thing we have. The guy was targeted less than twice a game on average last year.

PTPaQ
03-31-2008, 02:40 PM
Cornerback is arguably the hardest position to play in football, or at least in a man coverage scheme. A corner who makes his plays primarily in zone schemes cannot be considered a shut-down corner, he may hold down his zone, but that is not in the same ball park as playing the island consistantly as a scheme.

Even though most of the top corners in the league are versatile, they make their name by either playing the ball and the QB, or playing the man. Playing the ball can get you in trouble, but it also cashes in. Those are the Champ Bailey's, DeAngelo Hall's, Dre Bly's, Asante Samuel's, etc...They basically play the Read & React technique.

Corners who for the most part play their man and mirror are Al Harris, Nmamdi, Nate Clements, Lito Sheppard, Marcus Trufant, etc...Those are probably the closest you could consider to "Shut-Down" that we have today. Their main focus is to mainly, not give up completions.

Champ Bailey is probably the best corner since Deon, buthe does give up his fair share of plays, mostly because he plays read & react.

And on a side not, DeAngelo Hall might be the most overated player we have in today's game...no denying his play-making ability, but to even be considering him a shut-down corner is hilarious.

Edit: some corners I see with possibly some "shut-down" potential in this draft are:

Bowman, McKelvin, Talib, Lee, Cason, and the kid from Wisconsin, just to name a few.

azbmxican
03-31-2008, 03:00 PM
DeAngelo Hall is as close as you can come to a shutdown cornerback nowadays. One touchdown given up last year, and was beaten in the overall matchup big once last year (Amani Toomer beat him, but he had an interception that game; gave up a TD to Joey Galloway on a sluggo route, and I think Anthony Gonzalez beat him a few times although Peyton avoided him most of the game and Hall still had an interception that game). He gets too aggressive at times, but for the most part he is amazing. He also has amazing ball skills, unlike a player such as Leodis McKelvin. DeAngelo Hall, and according to Oakland fans, Nnandi Asomugha, are the top young cornerbacks in the National Football League today. And they are on the same team. With two very good safties, two very good linebackers, a great pass rushing defensive end, and a decent interior defensive line. If they get another good defensive end that defense will be amazing.



yeah, he shut down Boldin like a cupcake in his matchup. A. Boldin 13 receptions 162yards 2TDS 31yards longest reception.

SenorGato
03-31-2008, 03:50 PM
I wouldn't sleep on Darrelle Revis or Eric Wright. Those guys are sick, and I think both have the potential to be top corners.

I think it's funny how no matter how well he plays, DeAngelo Hall will always be called overrated.

BamaFalcon59
03-31-2008, 06:13 PM
yeah, he shut down Boldin like a cupcake in his matchup. A. Boldin 13 receptions 162yards 2TDS 31yards longest reception.

Are you a Cardinals fan? Did you watch the game? You know what, I won't even shoot back with who he molested that game. You obviously either have a poor memory or did not watch the game.

Roughneck
03-31-2008, 06:36 PM
Is there a true "shutdown" corner in this draft? I don't see one.
In fact, I don't see any left in the NFL.

Champ Bailey? http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d803bc832
This was the Packers #3 or #4 WR, rookie, James Jones. Speed is supposed to be Jones' weakness.

DeAngelo Hall? No way.
My own Charles Woodson and Al Harris? Uh uh.
Asante Samuel or Nate Clements? Nope. They just gamble a lot and get their share of big plays. But they allow too many to be considered 'shut down' corners. Nsmadi in Oakland? No he's not a shutdown corner. He's a solid corner in his system, but he's not a shutdown.

Deion Sanders WAS a shut down corner.

THAT BEING SAID, who are the best TRUE COVER CORNERS in this draft?
Forget their supposed return skills as punt and or kick returns. I just want cover ability, plus run support.

Here's how I rank them, but in all honesty, I have never seen a full game from Troy University so my judgment of McKelvin might be off, based on hype and highlights, and also Croamartie. ESPN didn't show too many Tennessee State games.

#1- Mike Jenkins
#2- Antoine Cason
#3- Leodis McKelvin
#4- Dominique Wilkins-Rodgers-Cromartie
#5- Brandon Flowers
#6- Aqib Talib

Anyone here ever actually see any FULL GAMES of all these guys?

Remember, Al Harris, who finally made the Pro Bowl this year after gettin screwed the previous year (and THIS season he didn't deserve it as much as last year), took a few YEARS to even become a starter. He didn't start in Philly and it took a trade to Green Bay for him to get his chance. Maybe a guy like Justin King CAN LEARN how to man-up, but I don't see it yet.

ummm you do realize he was thrown to only 28 times right? Even the great Peyton Manningbefore facing us was asked about Aso and he said "Im not gonna throw his way no way"

also most nfl personel think he's in the same class as Bailey

T.Smith
03-31-2008, 06:58 PM
Jack Ike is the only one from this years draft that has the potential imo.