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Zbikowski_9
03-31-2008, 12:24 AM
As we are well aware we need help a DE.

I think we alraed have 2 good young Right Ends in Robinson and Edwards - it is a left end we need with Scott gone and Udeze off-contract next year. I like Jayme Mitchell but we need a real everydown 'do it all' guy. First i thought the trade for Peppers would be perfect but that looks very unlikley, so i have a new idea.
Chris Long.
He would be perfect and he is a guy Chilly would love. This would only work if the draft fell like this.

Miami: Jake Long (they have got Joey Porter and Jason, and specialist pass rushers can be found later in the draft)

Rams: Gholston (they love him and there is now talk Dorsey is on top of their board)

Oakland: McFadden (i think this is a bad idea but we know Al Davis - besides they have got a good D, and they have Kalimba Edwards now and Tommy Kelly may still stay at the LE position)

Falcons: Dorsey (Matt Ryan another option, they spent their 6th overall on Jamall last year and have money already tied up at RE)

Cheifs: Have two good young ends and need help on the Oline - and Clady could be a reach here --> this is Minni's oppurtunity to strike for Chris Long before the Jets or Pats get a chance.

According to Trade Chart
6th overall pick = 1600

Possible trades
17th overall pick = 950
48th overall pick = 420
74th overall pick = 220

17th overall pick = 950
Bryant McKinnie = Cheifs need a LT
83rd overall pick = 175

17th overall pick = 950
74th overall pick = 220
83rd overall pick = 175
2009 2nd Round pick

ect....

I know for a team that builds through the draft giving up a bunch of picks and putting all eggs in one basket is not ideal, however after our free agency signings we don't have many roster spots left anyway.

Any thoughts?

Crickett
03-31-2008, 12:28 AM
Any thoughts?

Yeah, Chris Long's going to last till #5. Riiiight.

Joeyjr09
03-31-2008, 12:29 AM
No way on earth Chris Long fall past number 4. It's highly unlikely Miami passes on him at number 1 and no way Al Davis lets Howie's kid slide past him. Your idea would never work.

Anyone wanting Chris Long would likely have to move up to Miami's spot for him as Miami and St. Louis are both extremely likely to take him.

Zbikowski_9
03-31-2008, 01:03 AM
There was 'no way' Brady Quinn would fall past Minni if the Browns did pick him first-let alnoe drop out of the top 20.

There was 'no way' Aaron Rodgers could fall out of the top 5 picks

the list goes on.

What I am more getting at is the concept of trading up for him. It could alternativly be a trade with Oakland who don't have a obvious need at DE, already have spent loads of cash (don't need a monster rookie deal) and could be interested in the services.

Picking in the top 10 is not as glamerous as it use to be now with the contracts needed - so trade downs could become more common.

If The Phins pass on Chris Long (as they have more glaring needs) he could fall.

The Rams seem to prefer Gholston as a DE and his numbers at the combine were great. They could also go with Dorsey who they seem to love and move Carriker to the outsied.

The Raiders Need offensive weapons and after what AD did last year McFadden could look even more attractive. They have massive gaps to fill on the O'Line and would benifit from a trade down - but if that does not happen Clady could be picked. - No one thought Levi Jones would go so early did they.

The Falcons have more pressing needs and would pass on Long.

Is it that hard to belive???

Other scenarios....

Miami: Gholston Gholston J Long
St Louis: Dorsey J Long Gholston
Oakland: J Long McFadden Clady
Atlanta: Ryan Dorsey Dorsey


Rather than just write-off the concept add your opions - should Minni make a play for Long? What other scenarios could unfold? ect
-rather than just sit back and critize like your opinion is the 'be all and end all'

Joeyjr09
03-31-2008, 01:45 AM
Dude Brady Quinn and Aaron Rodgers are completely different situations. There's only 1 QB per team and it's a much riskier pick then any other position is. Consider at the very least, 28 out of the 32 teams are content with their QB situations, when they pass on a QB, the player seems to free fall. Same can't be said for DEs.

Can't believe you said Oakland doesn't have an obvious need at DE. DE might be their biggest need overall.

Please explain to me what glaring needs Miami has that they would take at number 1 overall Chris Long. Jake Long is the only other pick and there's questions about him. Chris Long is the odds on favorite to be the number 1 pick right now.

The fact that you even have to come up with 283218053280 reasons for Long to slip just a couple picks shows how highly unlikely it is.

You have 3 teams in the top 4 who all likely have pass rush at the top of their list in the draft and you really think the best DE in the draft is going to drop past all 3. Not to mention, even if by some stroke of miracle he did, that means Jake Long would be long gone and KC would snap him up in a heartbeat.

I mean come on bro, you even came up with a situation where the Raiders reach for Ryan Clady just to try to force Chris Long to drop.

It's not gonna happen. Take it to the bank. Chris Long is a top 4 pick, hands down no questions ask. Al Davis will never let Howie Long's boy get by him and that's if Parcells with his love of DL and his respect for Howie doesn't jump in and get Chris Long 1st.

You have a better shot at getting Gholston in that spot then Chris Long. Long will never fall there.

And btw...If you make a post and ask for opinions, don't get upset when you get them. And my opinion is that theres no way you have a shot in hell at Chris Long unless you are trading into the top 2 picks.

Geo
03-31-2008, 01:47 AM
Peppers isn't worth half the contract he is going to get. Phillip Merling could very well be available at the Viking's 1st round pick though, that would be a better option as he seems to be a very good LDE prospect.

Although I'm not sure the Vikings have the answer at RDE, I think I'd rather move Robison and/or Edwards to LDE and get an even better pass rusher. But I suppose the Vikes could grab an undersized but quick guy later on, in the mid/late rounds, as a potential pass rush specialist.

thule
03-31-2008, 01:54 AM
title should be changed...in no where is there any source to any trade taking place....this is the type of false pretense that isn't allowed here.

Zbikowski_9
03-31-2008, 02:07 AM
title should be changed...in no where is there any source to any trade taking place....this is the type of false pretense that isn't allowed here.

Ummm? the thread is about a trade, the idea is to mimmick when they announce a trade on the podium....and who are you to tell people what they can and can't do???

And to the Ortiz fan i just don't like how people make statements as if they are Ghospel when history tells us that nothing is set in stone. And yes i gave a poor example by only mentioning QBs


And to the Colts supporter i agree that a punderzied pass rush specialist should be targeted later, similar to Brian Robinson.

I havn't seen Merling Play before so i just don't know - for all i know he could be just what i want the Vikes to get.

I know this is probly realy dumb but could Sedrick Ellis play outside at LE? similar to Tommy Kelly. I know he is short and probly doesn't have the seperation speed but when ever i watched USC play he just took centre stage. In a team of so many stars he stood out. If he could play LE for a couple of years he could then move inside when Pat moves on - similar to what Kevin Williams did as a rookie. Just a thought.

Joeyjr09
03-31-2008, 02:41 AM
Zbi has a real problem.

Dude, you asked for opinions and then get upset when they are given to you. Don't go trying to neg rep me for it and then act like a little girl just cause you don't like how I word it.

Then on top of that, the thread title is completely misleading. The only reason I clicked was to see what trade had gone down, only to find out, there is no trade. This thread should have been titled something along the lines of "Should we move up for C.Long?" If your read the rules of the boards, you know you can't have misleading titles. Don't get mad when someone calls you out for breaking board rules.

You need to fix your attitude bro. You got this my sh*t don't stink attitude going on where no one can say anything to you without you trashing them with "You opinion isn't the be all end all" or "Who are you to tell me what I can or can't do". You made a thread, you mistitled it and you asked for opinions. Stop getting upset and starting in with people when you get exactly what you ask for.

RaiderNation
03-31-2008, 02:43 AM
raiders would never pass on chris long

The Legend
03-31-2008, 02:55 AM
i wouldnt be shock if Al Davis trade his next yr 2nd round to move up for Long

thule
03-31-2008, 03:02 AM
Ummm? the thread is about a trade, the idea is to mimmick when they announce a trade on the podium....and who are you to tell people what they can and can't do???

And to the Ortiz fan i just don't like how people make statements as if they are Ghospel when history tells us that nothing is set in stone. And yes i gave a poor example by only mentioning QBs


And to the Colts supporter i agree that a punderzied pass rush specialist should be targeted later, similar to Brian Robinson.

I havn't seen Merling Play before so i just don't know - for all i know he could be just what i want the Vikes to get.

I know this is probly realy dumb but could Sedrick Ellis play outside at LE? similar to Tommy Kelly. I know he is short and probly doesn't have the seperation speed but when ever i watched USC play he just took centre stage. In a team of so many stars he stood out. If he could play LE for a couple of years he could then move inside when Pat moves on - similar to what Kevin Williams did as a rookie. Just a thought.

I'm a team leader and this website has instilled trust and leadership into my name.

Zbikowski_9
03-31-2008, 04:21 AM
I'm a team leader and this website has instilled trust and leadership into my name.

wow your just like a super hero like the one in your sig. Whith great power comes great responsibility




An i am not getting pissed at people for saying there is no chance (that is an unfortunate aspect of typing - no expression) i just want to hear more constructive critisism or actual opinions - not just 'no that would never happen'. It is a hyperthetial of a concept of trading up for Chris Long - i am not saying he will drop - but should the stars allign, would a trade up be on the cards.

thule
03-31-2008, 04:36 AM
wow your just like a super hero like the one in your sig. Whith great power comes great responsibility




An i am not getting pissed at people for saying there is no chance (that is an unfortunate aspect of typing - no expression) i just want to hear more constructive critisism or actual opinions - not just 'no that would never happen'. It is a hyperthetial of a concept of trading up for Chris Long - i am not saying he will drop - but should the stars allign, would a trade up be on the cards.

You might want to go back and read the NFLDC Rules again

Section 4a breaks it down

4. Do not post information from pay websites (such as ESPN Insider's).

a) Further, don't post information without a credible link. If a link doesn't exist, wait until you can find one. Suggesting that event A will happen because you know some people (or worse, because you just KNOW it will) is not acceptable.
b) Try only to post relevant information from another article. Don't quote the entire article if the entire article isn't applicable.
c) Plagiarism will result in an immediate suspension. Don't do it.

Zbikowski_9
03-31-2008, 04:40 AM
You might want to go back and read the NFLDC Rules again

Section 4a breaks it down

4. Do not post information from pay websites (such as ESPN Insider's).

a) Further, don't post information without a credible link. If a link doesn't exist, wait until you can find one. Suggesting that event A will happen because you know some people (or worse, because you just KNOW it will) is not acceptable.
b) Try only to post relevant information from another article. Don't quote the entire article if the entire article isn't applicable.
c) Plagiarism will result in an immediate suspension. Don't do it.



Open 90% of these threads and you will see there is no links. Why would i have link for this it is my idea, i never claimed this to be real - how could i the draft hasn't happened. Your argument is ridiculous

Zbikowski_9
03-31-2008, 04:44 AM
You might want to go back and read the NFLDC Rules again

Section 4a breaks it down

4. Do not post information from pay websites (such as ESPN Insider's).

a) Further, don't post information without a credible link. If a link doesn't exist, wait until you can find one. Suggesting that event A will happen because you know some people (or worse, because you just KNOW it will) is not acceptable.
b) Try only to post relevant information from another article. Don't quote the entire article if the entire article isn't applicable.
c) Plagiarism will result in an immediate suspension. Don't do it.





I just looked through your threads - in it you speculate draft picks, as you do in your mock drafts. Where are the links??????
I am confused i give an idea - which is obviously not true or claimed to be and i am breaking rules - yet you do the same and even speculate and that is ok? Please explain to me wise Team Leader

thule
03-31-2008, 04:49 AM
I just looked through your threads - in it you speculate draft picks, as you do in your mock drafts. Where are the links??????
I am confused i give an idea - which is obviously not true or claimed to be and i am breaking rules - yet you do the same and even speculate and that is ok? Please explain to me wise Team Leader

No problem with speculation...it's the misleading title that bugs me. Simple Julius Peppers? would have been a adaquet title for the thread....your title implies a trade has taken place which is misleading title.

Also your statement..."i give an idea" is false.
.....there has been a trade! is a fact

Zbikowski_9
03-31-2008, 05:01 AM
No problem with speculation...it's the misleading title that bugs me. Simple Julius Peppers? would have been a adaquet title for the thread....your title implies a trade has taken place which is misleading title.

Also your statement..."i give an idea" is false.
.....there has been a trade! is a fact

Why would i call a thread Julius Peppers when it is not about him - that would be misleading - wouldn't it?

Zbikowski_9
03-31-2008, 05:04 AM
Also your statement..."i give an idea" is false.
.....there has been a trade! is a fact

No it isn't. i do give an idea. My idea is a trade the Vikings could make should a series of events unfold.

So would that make your statement above false?

I mean stop being a power tripper when you have no power it is so pathetic

thule
03-31-2008, 05:11 AM
No it isn't. i do give an idea. My idea is a trade the Vikings could make should a series of events unfold.

So would that make your statement above false?

I mean stop being a power tripper when you have no power it is so pathetic

Your title is misleading...and draws views from people because they think a trade has taken place with the vikings....it's not a huge deal...just seems like a weak way to get people to read your posts.

Hell for what it's worth this thread should be named Make Believe Trade

I still don't get how
A trade has taken place is a opinion. No matter how you cut that it is a fact.

Zbikowski_9
03-31-2008, 05:18 AM
Maybe if you got a little, instead of making 8,300+ post, you would see there are far more greater things of importance then you beliving my post's title is misleading.

And just to clarify the title was not to grab attention it was to simulate the moment when they announce a trade and the excitment that goes with that. I posted this in the Vikings thread because I wanted to hear thoughts of i Vikings fans- so i wasn't trying to grab attention.

Thanks, though, for standing up for all the poor innocent people who were harmed by being drawn to this thread with high expectations of seeing a trade that has gone down - only to have their dreams shattered by a far-fetched dream of a hopless Vikings supporter.

thule
03-31-2008, 05:24 AM
Maybe if you got a little, instead of making 8,300+ post, you would see there are far more greater things of importance then you beliving my post's title is misleading.

And just to clarify the title was not to grab attention it was to simulate the moment when they announce a trade and the excitment that goes with that. I posted this in the Vikings thread because I wanted to hear thoughts of i Vikings fans- so i wasn't trying to grab attention.

Thanks, though, for standing up for all the poor innocent people who were harmed by being drawn to this thread with high expectations of seeing a trade that has gone down - only to have their dreams shattered by a far-fetched dream of a hopless Vikings supporter.

Can we atleast keep this mature...if you want to handle this any further with me personally take it up in a private message...we don't need to fill this thread with bickering.

Zbikowski_9
03-31-2008, 05:35 AM
Can we atleast keep this mature...if you want to handle this any further with me personally take it up in a private message...we don't need to fill this thread with bickering.

Sorry did I hurt your feelings.
Now i barley post only when i want to see what fellow Viking fans think and get their opinions, hense why i am posting in this thread. So why don't you stick to the Cowboy and NFL threads and we can stay out of each others way and you wont get your feelings hurt.

vikes_28
03-31-2008, 11:58 AM
cant we all just get along?

Crickett
03-31-2008, 12:34 PM
An i am not getting pissed at people for saying there is no chance (that is an unfortunate aspect of typing - no expression) i just want to hear more constructive critisism or actual opinions - not just 'no that would never happen'. It is a hyperthetial of a concept of trading up for Chris Long - i am not saying he will drop - but should the stars allign, would a trade up be on the cards.

Did you just try to neg rep me?

Zbikowski_9
04-18-2008, 09:03 PM
Ok, so i am a complete idiot for saying it is possible that Chris Long could fall to 5, now Scott has him going at 6 - so is he an idiot too?

Just all those people that wrote me off acting like they know everything - now more and more people are suggesting he could go later. Not realy the experts you thought you were: Crickett, Raidernation, The Legend ect

Crickett
04-29-2008, 08:56 AM
Yeah, I guess I was dead wrong there. Chris Long's plummet in the draft was completely unprecendented. I guess I just haven't figured this NFL draft thing out. He was right there.

Zbikowski_9
05-02-2008, 06:39 PM
Yeah, I guess I was dead wrong there. Chris Long's plummet in the draft was completely unprecendented. I guess I just haven't figured this NFL draft thing out. He was right there.

I never said it was probable, i said it was possible and it DEFINATLY was probable. Miami locked up Jake Long prior to the draft and Chris Long was not even second on their board and they made no effort to sigh Chris Long.

The Rams juggled Long and Dorsey and it was a 50-50 call, if they went the other way Atlanta definatly would have passed, Oakland had McFadden on top of their board and even wanted to trade up to make sure they got him if the Jets traded up. That would have left him at no. 5.

Now it is easy to be a smart a ss and come here after the draft but you ridiculed me that the thought of Long falling to 5 was ridiculas (sp) when it could have easily happened.

Crickett
05-02-2008, 07:42 PM
I never said it was probable, i said it was possible and it DEFINATLY was probable. Miami locked up Jake Long prior to the draft and Chris Long was not even second on their board and they made no effort to sigh Chris Long.

The Rams juggled Long and Dorsey and it was a 50-50 call, if they went the other way Atlanta definatly would have passed, Oakland had McFadden on top of their board and even wanted to trade up to make sure they got him if the Jets traded up. That would have left him at no. 5.

Now it is easy to be a smart a ss and come here after the draft but you ridiculed me that the thought of Long falling to 5 was ridiculas (sp) when it could have easily happened.


Long falling to 5 was ridiculous. Which is why when he didn't go #1, he dropped all the way down to #2. And you're right, it is easy to be a smart a ss and come in here AFTER YOU'VE BEEN PROVEN RIGHT.

I mean, it didn't stop you with you incontrovertable evidence of Scott had it happen in a mock draft.

BamaFalcon59
05-02-2008, 07:46 PM
I mean, it didn't stop you with you incontrovertable evidence of Scott had it happen in a mock draft.

Nice word.

Crickett
05-02-2008, 07:49 PM
Nice word.

Actually spelled it wrong. :o

Zbikowski_9
05-02-2008, 09:16 PM
Long falling to 5 was ridiculous. Which is why when he didn't go #1, he dropped all the way down to #2. And you're right, it is easy to be a smart a ss and come in here AFTER YOU'VE BEEN PROVEN RIGHT.

I mean, it didn't stop you with you incontrovertable evidence of Scott had it happen in a mock draft.

How is it ridiculous when there was a 50-50 chance that the Rams would go Dorsey over Long, and if that were to happen barring a trade there was a 99% chance he would fall to 5.

That is not ridiculous by any means it was virtualy a 50% chance and if you cant see that you realy are a tool.

And that 'incontrovertable evidence' was a case of me saying i am not the only one with this idea (for which i was written-off as being stupid). The main argument against me was that the Raiders would take him no one even thought the Rams would, and the raiders had DMac higher on their board.

Crickett
05-02-2008, 09:51 PM
How is it ridiculous when there was a 50-50 chance that the Rams would go Dorsey over Long, and if that were to happen barring a trade there was a 99% chance he would fall to 5.

That is not ridiculous by any means it was virtualy a 50% chance and if you cant see that you realy are a tool.

50% chance my ***. The Rams are a team with a lot of youth and a fair amount of talent at defensive tackle, a veteran leader in Laroi Glover and a bunch of aging vets at DE who simply didn't get the job done last year.

But by all means, continue name calling. Chris Long was drafted second, and there was a ZERO PERCENT chance, NONE, that he was going to last to #5. If you think there was, you need to take a closer look at teams you know less about than you think.

Zbikowski_9
05-02-2008, 10:50 PM
50% chance my ***. The Rams are a team with a lot of youth and a fair amount of talent at defensive tackle, a veteran leader in Laroi Glover and a bunch of aging vets at DE who simply didn't get the job done last year.

But by all means, continue name calling. Chris Long was drafted second, and there was a ZERO PERCENT chance, NONE, that he was going to last to #5. If you think there was, you need to take a closer look at teams you know less about than you think.

Can you tell me then.
-The falcons spent their top pick on a LE last year and have money invested in the productive right end Abraham. They would take Ryan over him and prob Dorsey and others too.
-The raiders, who in my opinion would have benifited gretly from Dorsey or Chris Long if he was on the board, had McFadden on the top of their board. So despite what they should have done - they would pass

So barring a trade up into the top 4, which proved hard to do (see the NO Saints as an example), i dont see who would have taken him had the Rams chosen Dorsey.

And to say there was ZERO percent chance shows that there is no changing your mind. It was well documented that there was a real split and debate over the no. 2 pick so to say ZERO percent chance is stupid. I think they made the right choice coz Carriker suits playing on the inside but including Glover in your arguement was silly if you are at the same time refering to aging vets on the outside

Crickett
05-02-2008, 11:41 PM
Can you tell me then.
-The falcons spent their top pick on a LE last year and have money invested in the productive right end Abraham. They would take Ryan over him and prob Dorsey and others too.
-The raiders, who in my opinion would have benifited gretly from Dorsey or Chris Long if he was on the board, had McFadden on the top of their board. So despite what they should have done - they would pass

No, I think the Falcons would have passed on him.

Not the Raiders though. Yeah, they passed on Vernon Gholston even though he would have filled a need but..... Vernon Gholston isn't the son of a former Oakland Raiders hall of famer. Now, I'm usually someone who doesn't like to take lineage into account when predicting future success, but I can't imagine they would have passed on him for anyone.

And to say there was ZERO percent chance shows that there is no changing your mind. It was well documented that there was a real split and debate over the no. 2 pick so to say ZERO percent chance is stupid. I think they made the right choice coz Carriker suits playing on the inside but including Glover in your arguement was silly if you are at the same time refering to aging vets on the outside

Laroi Glover is the one aging vet at DT where the Rams have a bunch of young guys at DT.

At DE, both starters at aging, and they don't really have any depth there.

I mean, last year, only three players on the Rams roster had more than 2 sacks last year.

Corey Chavous, who is a safety.
Laroi Glover, who is a defensive tackle.
Will Witherspoon, who is an outside linebacker