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BeerBaron
03-31-2008, 10:12 PM
http://dolphinsindepth.blogspot.com/2008/03/things-i-know-before-todays-start-of.html

so according to that, they have it down to exactly who they want with the first overall pick.

this paragraph is the one of particular interest:

2. The Dolphins draft board is set. It was set last week. That means the Dolphins already know who they are going to draft if they cannot trade out of that No. 1 overall pick. They desperately want to trade out of that pick. By the way, don't ask me who they would pick because I've asked and the person I asked laughed at me.

so now they talk to the guys at the very top and throw some possible deals around them, see who might be willing to accept the most favorable one.

which got me thinking, if they got a deal in place, would they sign the player? i know theyre allowed to....or would they just hang on in case a trade were to come up? how would it affect the rest of the draft if they locked their guy in?

and has it ever happened that the team with the #1 overall pick signed their guy? im pretty sure the texans did with carr, but they were an expansion team...any non-expansion team do it?

Scott Wright
03-31-2008, 11:11 PM
Jeff George was signed, sealed and delivered well before Draft Day I believe...

bored of education
03-31-2008, 11:13 PM
Interesting. I wonder if anything actually comes of this.

Scott Wright
03-31-2008, 11:16 PM
They are going to take it right down to the wire hoping for a deal, guaranteed. Unless they can make a trade in the days leading up to April 26 that is.

Here is my read on it if they get stuck at #1:

Jake Long: 55%
Chris Long: 45%

MidwayMonster31
03-31-2008, 11:20 PM
Jeff Ireland supposedly said that he could draft for need early. There is a good case for offensive tackle as their biggest need. I have it down to Jake Long, Chris Long or Vernon Gholston. I'm not buying the Ryan talk at all.

Im_a_Romosexual
03-31-2008, 11:21 PM
wasn't Mario Williams signed before the draft?

JagHombre22
03-31-2008, 11:24 PM
really?

you think they'd go OT over DE?

Interesting....

BeerBaron
03-31-2008, 11:25 PM
i just dont know if a 34 DE calls for #1 overall pick money. a possible franchise tackle on the other hand might...

they have to give it to someone so they might as well pay a guy more worth it i think

Scott Wright
03-31-2008, 11:33 PM
Here is why I think Jake Long gets the edge for Miami:

1) Offensive Tackle is a bigger need

2) It makes more financial sense to invest $30+ million guaranteed in an OT

3) They already have two good 3-4 OLB's in Jason Taylor (at least for the time being) and Joey Porter plus they signed Reggie Torbor and Charlie Anderson.

4) You can get 3-4 pass rushing 'tweeners later in the draft, i.e. Quentin Groves, Cliff Avril, Marcus Howard, Bruce Davis, Shawn Crable, Bryan Smith, Curtis Johnson, etc.

WMD
03-31-2008, 11:34 PM
Nobody is going to trade up to #1, unless the Dolphins package it with $20 Million in straight cash, homie.

If the NFL put a limit on the maximum contract that Rookies can get, there would be more trading at the top of the draft..

foozball
03-31-2008, 11:44 PM
mario williams was signed either 2 days or the night before the draft i believe

i think they go with Jake Long if they stay

BeerBaron
03-31-2008, 11:51 PM
Nobody is going to trade up to #1, unless the Dolphins package it with $20 Million in straight cash, homie.

If the NFL put a limit on the maximum contract that Rookies can get, there would be more trading at the top of the draft.

i would love to see that happen. maybe not a limit, but at least put a scale in place of how much each pick can get maximum. it would be up to the player/team to negotiate how that money is put to use, but it would give them a set figure to work with.

and if its a lower number than what the rookies are getting now (which it had damn well better be if they go through the trouble of putting it in) then it means theres more money available for the vets on the roster, which should make the players union go wild for it.

why it doesnt happen is beyond me...probably because its one of those things that just makes too much sense to ever happen...and yes, things like that do exist

LonghornsLegend
03-31-2008, 11:58 PM
I dont think they have to worry about giving up that top pick, no one is in a big hurry to pay that much money up front, and there isnt that type of talent in this draft...If Calvin Johnson had went back in school, now I could buy alot of teams wanting to try and move up to make it happen, or a franchise qb, but Miami will be picking their so they might as well try to negotiate some figures behind closed doors.


Although for some reason I wouldnt want to announce it early even if we did work out a contract, I would still want to give the Rams as much to think about as possible as well as other teams.

Iamcanadian
04-01-2008, 12:23 AM
i would love to see that happen. maybe not a limit, but at least put a scale in place of how much each pick can get maximum. it would be up to the player/team to negotiate how that money is put to use, but it would give them a set figure to work with.

and if its a lower number than what the rookies are getting now (which it had damn well better be if they go through the trouble of putting it in) then it means theres more money available for the vets on the roster, which should make the players union go wild for it.

why it doesnt happen is beyond me...probably because its one of those things that just makes too much sense to ever happen...and yes, things like that do exist

Actually, the Player's Union would oppose it strenously. The rookie salaries drive up every position's pay, without the rookies receiving big money, you would soon see a situation like in basebal, where only the super stars get the bulk of the big salaries while the rest play for peanuts by professional sport's standards.
For instance if LB's and DLmen dominate the top 10 in this year's draft, every player in the NFL who plays those positions will benefit as it definitely impacts franchising $$$$ and is used by agents to get their veterans higher contracts. The vast majority of NFL veterans aren't super stars and like the system just the way it is.
I doubt you'll ever get the Player's Union to agree to it and I actually think the NFL loves it as well.

thebow305
04-01-2008, 12:26 AM
It's going to be Chris Long or Vernon Gholston, guaranteed. Forget about Jake, he won't be the pick.

swollja
04-01-2008, 12:41 AM
i hope to god they just keep it and take chris long and play him until he's dead at de or olb

this is coming from someone who's fav team is the dolphins and don't want them to F up again at all

toonsterwu
04-01-2008, 01:06 AM
Every indication seems to be that this is down to Matt Ryan or Chris Long, with Jake Long as the third wheel. Of course, if someone is willing to take a lesser deal (unlikely, but if) that could change the entire dynamics of it. I'm not sure if this will run down to the wire. Parcells will know, the days leading up to the draft, the chances of a trade happening, and I think he'll make a decision beforehand.

swollja
04-01-2008, 01:11 AM
Every indication seems to be that this is down to Matt Ryan or Chris Long, with Jake Long as the third wheel. Of course, if someone is willing to take a lesser deal (unlikely, but if) that could change the entire dynamics of it. I'm not sure if this will run down to the wire. Parcells will know, the days leading up to the draft, the chances of a trade happening, and I think he'll make a decision beforehand.


i'd be in the market for a new tv if they take ryan #1

Geo
04-01-2008, 01:12 AM
I said/thought for the longest time that it would be Chris Long, but I've actually changed that notion to Jake Long being the first overall pick of the Dolphins and the Draft. I agree with Scott in that sentiment, I think he's the guy they ultimately go for.

Shiver
04-01-2008, 01:23 AM
Because the NFL has yet to implement a cap on rookie contracts, and they should as soon as they renegotiate the CBA, you should take the sure thing. Jake Long makes the most sense. Even if he doesn't live up to the billing he will still be a very good Tackle.

swollja
04-01-2008, 01:27 AM
chris long seems too perfect though for parcells. played 3-4 in college. high motor guy. plus the success with drafting ware, i don't see parcells not picking chris long.

swollja
04-01-2008, 01:28 AM
Because the NFL has yet to implement a cap on rookie contracts, and they should as soon as they renegotiate the CBA, you should take the sure thing. Jake Long makes the most sense. Even if he doesn't live up to the billing he will still be a very good Tackle.

i agree with taking the sure thing. i don't agree with who is the sure thing though.

LonghornsLegend
04-01-2008, 01:28 AM
Every indication seems to be that this is down to Matt Ryan or Chris Long, with Jake Long as the third wheel. Of course, if someone is willing to take a lesser deal (unlikely, but if) that could change the entire dynamics of it. I'm not sure if this will run down to the wire. Parcells will know, the days leading up to the draft, the chances of a trade happening, and I think he'll make a decision beforehand.

I dont think their considering Ryan, because their could be a huge drop off in Tackles by pick 32 if Cherilus goes a little earlier, and they cannot afford for that to happen...Besides that I think they want to give Beck and shot, the article hinted at that, and Ive never bought the hype that people sold me to make me believe they would pay Ryan #1 money, Parcells im sure knows he isnt worth that spot, and just doesnt make sense to do from their standpoint.

Geo
04-01-2008, 01:48 AM
Because the NFL has yet to implement a cap on rookie contracts, and they should as soon as they renegotiate the CBA, you should take the sure thing. Jake Long makes the most sense. Even if he doesn't live up to the billing he will still be a very good Tackle.
Hmm, I think Chris Long is a pretty sure thing though. He's going to deliver imo. Plus pass rushers are the premium in the league today, and Jason Taylor is unlikely to be wearing a Dolphins uniform past 08. Again, a lot of the reasoning for Chris Long is still there, but the gut is Jake is the guy. Maybe finances do have something to do with it.

Geo
04-01-2008, 01:51 AM
I dont think their considering Ryan, because their could be a huge drop off in Tackles by pick 32 if Cherilus goes a little earlier, and they cannot afford for that to happen...Besides that I think they want to give Beck and shot, the article hinted at that, and Ive never bought the hype that people sold me to make me believe they would pay Ryan #1 money, Parcells im sure knows he isnt worth that spot, and just doesnt make sense to do from their standpoint.
I absolutely agree with you there, LL. Parcells tried to feign legit interest for Matt Ryan, including through his human parrot Peter King, in the hopes of drumming up more interest in the first overall pick for trade.

bearsfan_51
04-01-2008, 02:01 AM
Hmm, I think Chris Long is a pretty sure thing though. He's going to deliver imo. Plus pass rushers are the premium in the league today, and Jason Taylor is unlikely to be wearing a Dolphins uniform past 08. Again, a lot of the reasoning for Chris Long is still there, but the gut is Jake is the guy. Maybe finances do have something to do with it.

Finances ALWAYS has something to do with it.

Scott Wright
04-01-2008, 02:21 AM
Finances ALWAYS has something to do with it.

In this case I think finances should definitely have something to do with it.

Jake Long and Chris Long probably carry very similar grades on just about everyone's board so in terms of talent you can make a case for either being the #1 pick. However, paying Jake Long $30 million guaranteed would basically be in line with what top offensive tackles are getting these days and in all actuality it might be a bargain. However, giving Chris Long that type of money would be overpaying. For example, last offseason Adalius Thomas and Joey Porter, two proven Pro Bowl performers at 3-4 OLB, only received $20 million guaranteed.

Furthermore, ever notice how guys like Jon Ogden, Walter Jones, Orlando Pace, and even Flozell Adams have all played for one team their entire careers? Stud offensive tackles just do not hit the open market. Period. If you need one you had better find him through the draft.

If I were Bill Parcells and I have to make a pick at #1 Jake Long is a no-brainer.

Geo
04-01-2008, 02:28 AM
The Dolphins horribly overpaid for Porter, come on Scott. ;)

Plus nevermind him or Adalius Thomas, Calvin Pace got 20M guaranteed this summer. Kris Jenkins and Shaun Rogers got 20M guaranteed. It's a crazy market now with the ever expanding cap, and getting to the quarterback is as much a premium as ... maybe ever in the history of the National Football League.

30M isn't far off either for them. Freeney got 30M. Mario Williams probably got around 27 or 28 mil, laughably without stepping a single foot on the field in the pros. Peppers will probably get that next summer, even though he's not worth half.

swollja
04-01-2008, 02:36 AM
The Dolphins horribly overpaid for Porter, come on Scott. ;)

Plus nevermind him or Adalius Thomas, Calvin Pace got 20M guaranteed this summer. Kris Jenkins and Shaun Rogers got 20M guaranteed. It's a crazy market now with the ever expanding cap, and getting to the quarterback is as much a premium as ... maybe ever in the history of the National Football League.

30M isn't far off either for them. Freeney got 30M. Mario Williams probably got around 27 or 28 mil, laughably without stepping a single foot on the field in the pros. Peppers will probably get that next summer, even though he's not worth half.

if all those guys are getting that type of money, how does peppers not deserve half?

Scott Wright
04-01-2008, 02:38 AM
The Dolphins horribly overpaid for Porter, come on Scott. ;)

Plus nevermind him or Adalius Thomas, Calvin Pace got 20M guaranteed this summer. Kris Jenkins and Shaun Rogers got 20M guaranteed. It's a crazy market now with the ever expanding cap, and getting to the quarterback is as much a premium as ... maybe ever in the history of the National Football League.

30M isn't far off either for them. Freeney got 30M. Mario Williams probably got around 27 or 28 mil, laughably without stepping a single foot on the field in the pros. Peppers will probably get that next summer, even though he's not worth half.

The problem is Dwight Freeney and Mario Williams are defensive ends, which is considered one of the 2-3 premium positions in the NFL. Chris Long will be an outside linebacker. That's an important distinction when it comes to money.

Plus overpaying by a 33% margin is a pretty big deal in my opinion.

swollja
04-01-2008, 02:45 AM
wouldn't he play end also?

Geo
04-01-2008, 02:53 AM
swollja: good point and a keen eye, friend. The argument might be raised that that also would apply to Jenkins, Rogers, Porter, or Pace ... but really, these players aren't to blame if someone is willing to pay them that much. Peppers will undoubtedly sign a hefty long-term contract when the time comes, whether or not I agree with it.

And again, the salary cap is growing, as the sport and its appeal is growing.

*****

Scott: An interesting and valid point, especially as Long may not pass rush enough if Parcell's influence is in the pudding of the defense. One could argue that maybe he wasn't aggressive enough in Dallas, with Demarcus Ware. Then again the man did help mold and utilize one of the most fiercesome pass-rushers in history in Lawrence Taylor, who was the second overall pick in the 1981 Draft. Carl Banks the third overall pick in 1984. Willie McGinest, fourth overall pick in 1994. James Farrior, 8th overall pick in 1997 (trading down twice). The aforementioned Ware and Bobby Carpenter in Dallas, both first round picks.

Parcells loves to stop the run, he puts value in that even if his guys aren't rushing the quarterback on every play. Chris Long can stop the run and pressure the quarterback. Whether the current financial commitment of the first overall pick changes the nature of Tuna's desire to build a team as he previously has in four instances, we'll see.

adamprez2003
04-01-2008, 05:16 AM
Here is why I think Jake Long gets the edge for Miami:

1) Offensive Tackle is a bigger need

2) It makes more financial sense to invest $30+ million guaranteed in an OT

3) They already have two good 3-4 OLB's in Jason Taylor (at least for the time being) and Joey Porter plus they signed Reggie Torbor and Charlie Anderson.

4) You can get 3-4 pass rushing 'tweeners later in the draft, i.e. Quentin Groves, Cliff Avril, Marcus Howard, Bruce Davis, Shawn Crable, Bryan Smith, Curtis Johnson, etc. Yeah I agree with this reasoning. Also add in the fact that Jake Long proably reminds Parcells of Jumbo Elliottt. I would say though that Matt Ryan is also ahead of Chris Long probably. Parcells drafted the top rated QB on two of the teams he's been with (Patriots- Bledsoe/ Jets - Pennington) Supposedly Parcells likes Quentin Moses also so OLB is a relatively stable position for that team. I think they go Jake Long or Matt Ryan. I think Matt Ryan would be the choice if they could work out a trade for Beck before the draft. Maybe to the Ravens and Cam Cameron for a 4th.

neko4
04-01-2008, 07:21 AM
jake long makes more sense
he would have a Joe Thomas effect

Also, Matt Ryan isnt worth the #1 pick

Iamcanadian
04-01-2008, 07:34 AM
I would have to agree with Scott. Financial ramifications will have some say in who goes #1 overall. The cap took a huge jump last year with the signing of new TV contracts but will now level off until those TV contracts are up.
There is still a pecking order used by successful teams for how to distribute cap dollars on their teams. Parcells is well aware that tying up huge amounts of money for certain secondary positions, practically guarantees a team will not be very competitive when it comes to the Super Bowl.

Scott Wright
04-01-2008, 07:53 AM
Just one other point...

I think we are getting into uncharted waters in terms of just how much of an effect the money is going to have on the #1 pick, or even the Top 3-5 for that matter.

Since these rookie contracts have really spiraled out of control (2004-ish?) we have had three quarterbacks and a defensive end go #1 overall. In other words we have yet to see a player from a "non-premium" position go in the top spot and I tend to think we won't. It's going to be QB, DE, OT and maybe CB because the dollars just don't make sense to give $30+ million to a safety or a linebacker.

Joeyjr09
04-01-2008, 08:00 AM
Did anyone actually read the article that was posted?

Everyone keeps saying OT is a bigger need which is a big reason why Jake is the pick but with the same token, the article clearly says Ireland will not draft for need early on.

BTW...There has only been 2 OTs taken 1st overall since 1936. That's a pretty big deal.

pete_norm
04-01-2008, 08:08 AM
From ProFootballTalk, it seems Jason Taylor will annouce his retirement tonight... That would puts Chris Long back on top i think.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/01/jason-taylor-to-retire/


It could be an April Fools though...

keylime_5
04-01-2008, 08:29 AM
It's gonna be Chris Long, that's who Bill wants, no need to overanalyze it anymore. That's what league circles have been saying all along, I don't see how anything's gonna change.

toonsterwu
04-01-2008, 09:31 AM
Taking everything with a grain of salt, but it was interesting that Sparano noted today that the team is searching for a RT, and that they have Carey at LT. Again, grain of salt, but if he's telling the truth, it could either support Jake Long (being that he's a better fit at RT) or suggest that they wait on OT.

BigBlueCrew56
04-01-2008, 10:30 AM
Did anyone actually read the article that was posted?

Everyone keeps saying OT is a bigger need which is a big reason why Jake is the pick but with the same token, the article clearly says Ireland will not draft for need early on.

BTW...There has only been 2 OTs taken 1st overall since 1936. That's a pretty big deal.



How many 3-4 OLB's have been taken #1?

Scott..... You made a great point about paying a 3-4 OLB 30 million plus in guarantees. It just doesnt meet today's current market value. I have stated this same argument only to meet much resistance. I feel that Jason Taylor will be with the Dolphins for another 5 years and with all the guaranteed money that was given to Joey Porter I dont see him going anywhere either. Jason Taylor just clocked in at a weight of 240 pounds. I dont see any 4-3 teams wanting him on the line figuring at this stage he would be too much of a liability in the run game. But he makes a perfect fit at elephant linebacker in a 3-4 position and he fits what Parcells wants to do perfectly. Do you see another 3-4 team that is going to give up some early picks for Jason Taylor????? The Steelers (No) The Pats (Yes) But Parcells wont trade in his own division Browns (No) They already have McGinest and Wimberly. Bill also needs to address the MLB situation early because it is very bare.

swollja
04-01-2008, 10:44 AM
why does nobody think chris long will play end? is it really gonna affect his draft position if the dolphins decide to play him at end? it's the same guy. i think he'll play both positions and they'll get as much use out of him as possible so make him earn his #1 money.

Turtlepower
04-01-2008, 10:47 AM
why does nobody think chris long will play end? is it really gonna affect his draft position if the dolphins decide to play him at end? it's the same guy. i think he'll play both positions and they'll get as much use out of him as possible so make him earn his #1 money.

3-4 DE is definitely not worth the money of the #1 pick. Once again, money trumps that argument.

swollja
04-01-2008, 10:51 AM
3-4 DE is definitely not worth the money of the #1 pick. Once again, money trumps that argument.

but combine that with the versatility to play more than end

what if he has a shawn merriman impact

Shane P. Hallam
04-01-2008, 10:57 AM
Wayne Huizenga has come out and said they are planning to keep the #1 pick (mostly because there is no deal):

http://www.miamiherald.com/616/story/478191.html

BigBlueCrew56
04-01-2008, 11:03 AM
but combine that with the versatility to play more than end

what if he has a shawn merriman impact


At 265 he is just too small to play end. Parcells wants his 3-4 ends to be around the 290-300 pound range. He got away with it in college but that is not going to happen in the pros. He would be a waste at 3-4 End because his pass rush skills would not be utilized to warrant 30 million.

BigBlueCrew56
04-01-2008, 11:25 AM
Posted by Omar Kelly at 8:44:26 AM
If you believe the Mambo King is giving up professional football to become the Lord of the Dance you might as well bet the farm that the Dolphins will also win the Super Bowl this season.

Neither are happening. At least not anytime soon. It's April Fools folks. Jason Taylor's not retiring, despite what ProFootballtalk is says. Got to love the Internet!

And according to coach Tony Sparano, Taylor's also not going anywhere, unless he retires, which backs up what V.P. of Football Operations, Bill Parcells has been saying. And two NFL executives recently backed up those claims.

On Tuesday Sparano said the Dolphins have big plans for Taylor, who will fill that Lawrence Taylor role in the Dolphins 3-4 defense, which coincidentally Sparano is not committing to despite the team presently being built for it



With this new peice of information it should make it rather clear that Jason Taylor is not going to be traded. Also keep in mind all the guaranteed money Joey Porter was given to play on the other side of that 3-4. I firmly beleive Jake Long should be the pick.

toonsterwu
04-01-2008, 11:46 AM
I take everything with a grain of salt this time of year.

If you are going to buy that statement from Sparano, then you would also buy that they are looking for a RT, not a LT (check out the palm beach post blog, they had some Sparano quotes). Thus, based on Parcells history (only one instance of a first round OL pick that I can recall) and if you buy that quote, then an argument against Jake Long is valid, as RT's can be found.

I'm not saying that they will or won't draft Jake (although I think he's still probably 3rd on their board, but that's an educated guess, which is all we can do), but rather, take everything with a grain of salt. If they want to trade Taylor, they can't announce it. Otherwise, their leverage goes away. right now, most indications would be that they want a 2nd in such a deal, but few teams are willing to pony that up, due to JT's age.

Although, if you buy both statements, then there is the dreaded third possibility that every Dolphins fan would hate: Matt Ryan. Of course, Sparano has also made comments about their expectations on Beck. That said, those comments were couched. He noted Beck competing with McCown, which could be implied that they don't have a long range vision there, and he also noted Beck needing a lot of mechanical work.

Short of it, salt is good (for this).

keylime_5
04-01-2008, 12:09 PM
Some of you arguing against Chris Long to Miami logic can think what you want, but I have not heard one shred of evidence that miami wants anyone except Chris at #1 overall so far. Chris could certainly play DE in a 3-4 in the NFL even if it's for a brief stint, but to say that OLB (which is Chris' position longterm in Miami) is not a big need for Miami is kinda stupid considering Jason Taylor has 1 maybe 2 years left tops (more likely 1) before he calls it quits, and Joey Porter is vastly overpaid and will be on the chopping block next offseason if he doesn't put up a big year in 2008. Both those guys are at the end of their careers anyhow. Miami' O-Line wasn't that bad last year and by adding Smiley it's already better. Vernon can be a good left tackle for now, and I've heard numerous people including Egghead John Clayton and his inside information claim that Parcells was more interested in defense in round one than he was in finding a franchise left tackle.
It's still not a done deal Chris Long to Miami, no, but to think that Chris Long is not the odds on favorite to go #1 overall later this month is just bad gambling.

BeerBaron
04-01-2008, 12:27 PM
btw, anyone the PFT article on taylors retirement was an april fool's joke. he usually pulls a few out every year....

anyway, look what i started, lol.

but if we learn two things from that article, its that the phins know who they want and that they aren't necessarily going for just need.

like many people, including scott, have argued, i think that jake long is the guy worth giving the money to. maybe chris long is the wiser pick and in the world where football is seperate from buisness, he would be the pick.

problem is, no one wants to pay a guy at chris's position that much money. itd make more sense to give it to a guy at jake's spot.

that said, im going to be that jake long is the guy that the phins ultimately draft

swollja
04-01-2008, 12:38 PM
At 265 he is just too small to play end. Parcells wants his 3-4 ends to be around the 290-300 pound range. He got away with it in college but that is not going to happen in the pros. He would be a waste at 3-4 End because his pass rush skills would not be utilized to warrant 30 million.

i thought he was around 275, which could mean 290 in a year or so on a pro program

BigBlueCrew56
04-01-2008, 12:41 PM
Some of you arguing against Chris Long to Miami logic can think what you want, but I have not heard one shred of evidence that miami wants anyone except Chris at #1 overall so far. Chris could certainly play DE in a 3-4 in the NFL even if it's for a brief stint, but to say that OLB (which is Chris' position longterm in Miami) is not a big need for Miami is kinda stupid considering Jason Taylor has 1 maybe 2 years left tops (more likely 1) before he calls it quits, and Joey Porter is vastly overpaid and will be on the chopping block next offseason if he doesn't put up a big year in 2008. Both those guys are at the end of their careers anyhow. Miami' O-Line wasn't that bad last year and by adding Smiley it's already better. Vernon can be a good left tackle for now, and I've heard numerous people including Egghead John Clayton and his inside information claim that Parcells was more interested in defense in round one than he was in finding a franchise left tackle.
It's still not a done deal Chris Long to Miami, no, but to think that Chris Long is not the odds on favorite to go #1 overall later this month is just bad gambling.



Miami currently has one viable starting NFL Tackle currently on the roster and that is Vernon Carey. They dont even have depth at the position. Not arguing against Chris Long as he very well could be the pick but it's more 50-50 at this time. If you go based off there depth chart then Jake Long is the pick. If you look into the draft crystal ball who do you think is going to be left that is better then Jake Long in the 2nd??? Up to 5-6 of the top offensive lineman can all be off the board by the time the Phins get to pick again. Let alone they might be targeting a QB with that top pick in the 2nd so that leaves even more talent to go by the later second round pick. Still with major needs left such as MLB,CB, and TE witch are all lacking quality talent on the depth chart. DE/OLB is probably filled with more talent and depth then any other spot on the roster at this current time.

OLB Jason Taylor
OLB Joey Porter
OLB Reggie Torgor
OLB Charlie Anderson
OLB Quentin Moses
OLB Abraham Wright
DE/OLB Matt Roth (Project 3-4 player)

There goes 7 players who have had experience playing in the 3-4 or where converted college DE's who played SLB with there previous teams. Matt Roth is the exact same size as Chris Long and could be projected as a 3-4 OLB if he proves to be agile enough.

BigBlueCrew56
04-01-2008, 12:46 PM
i thought he was around 275, which could mean 290 in a year or so on a pro program

He measured in at 265 at the combine. He could probably play at 275 but anything above that then he is bound to lose some speed.

toonsterwu
04-01-2008, 02:56 PM
BBC - Side note, but Sparano gave a comment indicating that Roth is, as of now, looked at as a DE in a 3-4 look.

toonsterwu
04-01-2008, 02:57 PM
He measured in at 265 at the combine. He could probably play at 275 but anything above that then he is bound to lose some speed.

I might be mistaken, but he was actually at 271 or 272 at the combine, having lost around 8-12 pounds by most accounts after the season. At his pro day, he weighed in at 267.

Joeyjr09
04-01-2008, 03:37 PM
BBC - Side note, but Sparano gave a comment indicating that Roth is, as of now, looked at as a DE in a 3-4 look.

Roth has always played DE. He hasn't touched LB since his freshman year of college and there no indication he ever will. BBC just says that to make it look like Miami has more depth then it really does at OLB. If you go to the Dolphins board, he always makes up reasons to talk about Jake Long and find excuses for the Dolphins to take him. He is a huge Jake Long support so take anything he says with a grain of salt.

He also listed Reggie Torbor but Torbor was recently named one of the starters at ILB next to Channing Crowder. Considering our ILB depth doesn't exisist, we can't afford to move Torbor out of that spot.

Looking at the Dolphins OLB depth. Here it is:

Jason Taylor: All Pro but should be dealt by next offseason at the latest. Getting up there in years.
Joey Porter: Awful last season until very late in the year. Contract will made him a cap cut sooner rather then later.
Charlie Anderson: Career backup who likely will be a ST in Miami.
Quentin Moses: Looked solid at DE last season but he didn't play any OLB last year and was cut by 2 teams in a month before we signed him. Project player at best.
Abe Wright: Questionable if he will even make the roster. Hurt all last season and is a developmental guy at best right now.

Please tell me, where on there does it look like we are deep at OLB? We have 2 aging players that are likely to be gone by next offseason and have already showns signs of decline. Our top backup is a career Special Teamer that will likely handle the same role here. And everything after that are fringe players that likely wouldn't make the roster of a good team.

The Dolphins weaknesses last season in order where:

Run Stopping
Pass Rush
Coverage
QB Play
Offensive Line play

The OL was extremely solid last season and we are bringing back our 2 best in Carey at LT and Satele at C. We already upgraded at RG in Smiley and LGs can be found easily. Miami needs to focus on the defense 1st and foremost as it was by far the worst par of the team last season. A Starting Rt can be found in round 2 and more depth can be found a little later in the draft.

Geo
04-01-2008, 03:43 PM
Yeah, I don't understand how Roth playing 3-4 DE is a story when he's been playing 3-4 DE for the Dolphins.

Joeyjr09
04-01-2008, 03:53 PM
Yeah, I don't understand how Roth playing 3-4 DE is a story when he's been playing 3-4 DE for the Dolphins.

It's not. Roth has always been a 3-4 DE. BigBlueCrew just keeps listing him as an OLB to try to make it look like Miami has a ton of depth at OLB to help his case for us taking Jake Long. BBC is a huge Jake Long fan and kinda makes up stuff sometimes to help justify why the Dolphins need to take Jake Long.

BigBlueCrew56
04-01-2008, 03:59 PM
Did you guys fail to see me list Matt Roth as a DE/OLB and with the quotations as (Project) next to that name. Basically stating that there could be a possibility but yet slim. And I also listed him last on that list. Geez talk about selective reading. I have made the argument about converting Matt Roth to OLB but that was assuming. I did read that Sparano did mention him as an end but in this world of assuming on these blogs I am assuming that a player listed at 6'3 272 is going to possibly project better as a 3-4 OLB much like many of you envision Chris Long.

BigBlueCrew56
04-01-2008, 04:01 PM
Yeah, I don't understand how Roth playing 3-4 DE is a story when he's been playing 3-4 DE for the Dolphins.


Roth has actually played 4-3 defensive end for the Dolphins. If you watched Dolphin games last year they lined up

DE Jason Taylor DT Keith Traylor DT Vonnie Holliday DE Matt Roth


They couldnt line up in 3-4 sets last year because there defense was decimated by injuries.

BigBlueCrew56
04-01-2008, 04:02 PM
Here is why I think Jake Long gets the edge for Miami:

1) Offensive Tackle is a bigger need

2) It makes more financial sense to invest $30+ million guaranteed in an OT

3) They already have two good 3-4 OLB's in Jason Taylor (at least for the time being) and Joey Porter plus they signed Reggie Torbor and Charlie Anderson.

4) You can get 3-4 pass rushing 'tweeners later in the draft, i.e. Quentin Groves, Cliff Avril, Marcus Howard, Bruce Davis, Shawn Crable, Bryan Smith, Curtis Johnson, etc.



Joey I guess this guy has no idea what he is talking about either. I understand that Torbor is curretly listed as playing on the inside but he does have the flexibility of playing OLB in a 3-4 due to the fact that he was a defensive end coming out of Auburn before being converted to a SLB with the Giants.

Joeyjr09
04-01-2008, 04:05 PM
Roth has actually played 4-3 defensive end for the Dolphins. If you watched Dolphin games last year they lined up

DE Jason Taylor DT Keith Traylor DT Vonnie Holliday DE Matt Roth


They couldnt line up in 3-4 sets last year because there defense was decimated by injuries.

The 2 years previous the Dolphins lined up in 3-4 sets and Roth was a DE. Don't get smart with the guy. Roth has primarily been a 3-4 DE during his career.

nobodyinparticular
04-01-2008, 04:07 PM
Jeff George was signed, sealed and delivered well before Draft Day I believe...

Carson Palmer and Charles Rogers were both signed in advance back in 2003. Carr in 2002 and Couch in 1999 as well.

BigBlueCrew56
04-01-2008, 04:13 PM
Roth has always played DE. He hasn't touched LB since his freshman year of college and there no indication he ever will. BBC just says that to make it look like Miami has more depth then it really does at OLB. If you go to the Dolphins board, he always makes up reasons to talk about Jake Long and find excuses for the Dolphins to take him. He is a huge Jake Long support so take anything he says with a grain of salt.

He also listed Reggie Torbor but Torbor was recently named one of the starters at ILB next to Channing Crowder. Considering our ILB depth doesn't exisist, we can't afford to move Torbor out of that spot.

Looking at the Dolphins OLB depth. Here it is:

Jason Taylor: All Pro but should be dealt by next offseason at the latest. Getting up there in years.
Joey Porter: Awful last season until very late in the year. Contract will made him a cap cut sooner rather then later.
Charlie Anderson: Career backup who likely will be a ST in Miami.
Quentin Moses: Looked solid at DE last season but he didn't play any OLB last year and was cut by 2 teams in a month before we signed him. Project player at best.
Abe Wright: Questionable if he will even make the roster. Hurt all last season and is a developmental guy at best right now.

Please tell me, where on there does it look like we are deep at OLB? We have 2 aging players that are likely to be gone by next offseason and have already showns signs of decline. Our top backup is a career Special Teamer that will likely handle the same role here. And everything after that are fringe players that likely wouldn't make the roster of a good team.

The Dolphins weaknesses last season in order where:

Run Stopping
Pass Rush
Coverage
QB Play
Offensive Line play

The OL was extremely solid last season and we are bringing back our 2 best in Carey at LT and Satele at C. We already upgraded at RG in Smiley and LGs can be found easily. Miami needs to focus on the defense 1st and foremost as it was by far the worst par of the team last season. A Starting Rt can be found in round 2 and more depth can be found a little later in the draft.



For all of the talk about you saying that I make stuff up. I wonder with some of the comments you make about our aging linebackers being traded or cut if you have some type of connections to Bill Parcells or Jeff Ireland. Joey Porter was payed mega bucks to play atleast for a couple of years in a Dolphin uniform. Jason Taylor at 33 is still young and if you look at a player like Willie McGinest why couldnt J.T play atleast 5 more years????

Geo
04-01-2008, 04:15 PM
Let's not be too chippy, guys. I didn't mean anything towards you BBC with the remark on Roth, btw.

Again, the argument for Chris Long remains and is valid, but I've nonetheless changed my thought to Jake Long being the pick.

BigBlueCrew56
04-01-2008, 04:15 PM
The 2 years previous the Dolphins lined up in 3-4 sets and Roth was a DE. Don't get smart with the guy. Roth has primarily been a 3-4 DE during his career.



Actually Joey the starting 3-4 front was


Kevin Carter Keith Traylor Vonnie Holliday

BigBlueCrew56
04-01-2008, 04:16 PM
Let's not be too chippy, guys. I didn't mean anything towards you BBC with the remark on Roth, btw.

Again, the argument for Chris Long remains and is valid, but I've nonetheless changed my thought to Jake Long being the pick.


No worries Geo me and Joey are always chippy with each other.

BigBlueCrew56
04-01-2008, 04:17 PM
Miami Dolphins 2006 Preview
From Conor Dowley

(Continued from Page 1)
Aug 17 2006
2006 Miami Dolphins (pg. 2)
In the slot, Kelly Campbell, Derek Hagan, and special-teams whiz Wes Welker figure to all see time depending on the game situation and play role. Campbell is a bearer of devastating straight-line speed, and was used as a downfield weapon in Minnesota with Culpepper. Welker is a small but exciting receiver, using his skills as a kick and punt returner to elude defenders in underneath coverage. Hagan, a rookie, is tall and lanky and fast, and the Dolphins hope to develop him into another Moss-like weapon with Culpepper.

On the line at tight end, Randy McMichael has developed into one of the league's better tight ends, proving to be an excellent weapon underneath and across the middle, especially in the red zone.

While their depth was precariously thin at TE last year, the Dolphins now have three good players to choose from for what will likely be two positions. Justin Peele is more of a blocker than receiver, but he is a very good blocker and able enough underneath in the passing game. Keith Heinrich isn't as good a blocker as Peele, but he's no slouch and may be better as a receiver, especially with his taller frame. Teyo Johnson was a failure as a second-round pick for Oakland, but is trying to catch on in Miami as a second pass-catching option at TE and has worked hard all offseason to earn a roster spot.

Offensive Line: This unit was a mess for much of last year, but it looks to be stronger and deeper this season. There's a four-tackle battle going on for the two starting positions, with any two of L.J. Shelton, Vernon Carey, Damien McIntosh, and Mike Pearson figuring to win the spots.

The guard spots are a bit more concrete, with Jeno James and Seth McKinney sitting on top of the depth charts at left and right guard, although McKinney may be out for 2-3 months after surgery, likely putting former Bills and Ravens starter Bennie Anderson into the starting lineup. Rex Hadnot figures to start at center, where he enjoyed some fair bit of success last season.

Depth may be a concern, especially inside after McKinney's injury, but it may also not be as bad as it seems. Carey, a former first-rounder, has the ability to play inside at guard, and former starter Wade Smith can play all across the line, including at center. Rookie Joe Toledo, a former TE who made an excellent transition to tackle, has the bulk and athleticism to play inside in Mularkey's scheme. Having players with that type of flexibility along the line is always a boon for a team.

Defense
Defensive Line: In the Dolphins' hybrid 4-3/3-4 defense, flexibility is a huge key for defensive linemen, and their roster is built well for it. Pass-rushing ends Jason Taylor and Matt Roth both displayed a good ability to shift from 4-3 DE to a 3-4 OLB role last season, and players like Vonnie Holliday, David Bowens, Kevin Carter, and Jeff Zgonina also played rotational and moving roles as well along the line, switching in and out between DE in the 3-4 and a rotating role between DE and DT in the 4-3 front.

Larry121283
04-01-2008, 04:19 PM
They are going to take it right down to the wire hoping for a deal, guaranteed. Unless they can make a trade in the days leading up to April 26 that is.

Here is my read on it if they get stuck at #1:

Jake Long: 55%
Chris Long: 45%

I do agree with this for the most part.

However, if they are looking to bounce out of that #1 spot, that means there is a guy they are also high on that they believe they can get at the spots they are targeting to trade down with.

However, at the top, I see the Long's with maybe the odds closer together than 55/45...maybe like 53/47...I am sure many in the organization are split on the two. OT is a need as is youth on the defense. OT at #1 makes more sense.

Joeyjr09
04-01-2008, 04:21 PM
For all of the talk about you saying that I make stuff up. I wonder with some of the comments you make about our aging linebackers being traded or cut if you have some type of connections to Bill Parcells or Jeff Ireland. Joey Porter was payed mega bucks to play atleast for a couple of years in a Dolphin uniform. Jason Taylor at 33 is still young and if you look at a player like Willie McGinest why couldnt J.T play atleast 5 more years????

1.) All I do is repeat what has been speculated by numerous sports writers. It has been well written that JT is likely to get deal. It has been well written that Joey Porter isn't likely to see the end of his contract. On the other hand, there has never ever been an article written about the Dolphins even thinking of moving Matt Roth to LB.

2.) Willie McGinest is getting paid peanuts by the Browns. Jason Taylor is getting paid top dollar by the Dolphins. JT will be 34 when the season starts. That is old. Don't know how you can even argue otherwise. When a player is old and declining, they are usually cut because they aren't worth what they are getting paid. That's exactly what happened to Willie McGinest when he was on the Pats. The Dolphins are looking to deal him to get something in return before he declines severly and they are forced to cut him. And don't even think about him taking a pay cut. Would you give up 5 million a year to play on a losing team?

BigBlueCrew56
04-01-2008, 04:21 PM
Joey always tries to discredit me but the truth is he tries to discredit every person who does this for a living because I basically regurgitate info that I find from sources who write about the team or do this for a living. He acts like I make this stuff up but I can assure you that everything I post will have a link or a writer to go along with it. I am just here to post information on my opinion and not bicker. He likes Chris Long or Vernon Gholston and I like Jake Long. We have fought about our opinions many times but it's not personal. Just a rivalry i guess.

BigBlueCrew56
04-01-2008, 04:26 PM
1.) All I do is repeat what has been speculated by numerous sports writers. It has been well written that JT is likely to get deal. It has been well written that Joey Porter isn't likely to see the end of his contract. On the other hand, there has never ever been an article written about the Dolphins even thinking of moving Matt Roth to LB.

2.) Willie McGinest is getting paid peanuts by the Browns. Jason Taylor is getting paid top dollar by the Dolphins. JT will be 34 when the season starts. That is old. Don't know how you can even argue otherwise. When a player is old and declining, they are usually cut because they aren't worth what they are getting paid. That's exactly what happened to Willie McGinest when he was on the Pats. The Dolphins are looking to deal him to get something in return before he declines severly and they are forced to cut him. And don't even think about him taking a pay cut. Would you give up 5 million a year to play on a losing team?

You dont know for a fact that Jason Taylor is being dealt. You are going off of rumors that writers are throwing out there. Parcells and Sparano have both come out and stated that he isnt going anywhere. Yeah it could be a smoke screen but it comes a time where credibility has to come into play with your fan base. Taylor is beloved in this community and if you think throwing dimes out there like yeah we are going to keep Taylor and then trading him is alienating a fan base even more that hasnt seen a winner in years. Some times they are telling the truth and sometimes common sense has to kick in.

Joeyjr09
04-01-2008, 04:27 PM
Miami Dolphins 2006 Preview
From Conor Dowley

(Continued from Page 1)
Aug 17 2006
2006 Miami Dolphins (pg. 2)
In the slot, Kelly Campbell, Derek Hagan, and special-teams whiz Wes Welker figure to all see time depending on the game situation and play role. Campbell is a bearer of devastating straight-line speed, and was used as a downfield weapon in Minnesota with Culpepper. Welker is a small but exciting receiver, using his skills as a kick and punt returner to elude defenders in underneath coverage. Hagan, a rookie, is tall and lanky and fast, and the Dolphins hope to develop him into another Moss-like weapon with Culpepper.

On the line at tight end, Randy McMichael has developed into one of the league's better tight ends, proving to be an excellent weapon underneath and across the middle, especially in the red zone.

While their depth was precariously thin at TE last year, the Dolphins now have three good players to choose from for what will likely be two positions. Justin Peele is more of a blocker than receiver, but he is a very good blocker and able enough underneath in the passing game. Keith Heinrich isn't as good a blocker as Peele, but he's no slouch and may be better as a receiver, especially with his taller frame. Teyo Johnson was a failure as a second-round pick for Oakland, but is trying to catch on in Miami as a second pass-catching option at TE and has worked hard all offseason to earn a roster spot.

Offensive Line: This unit was a mess for much of last year, but it looks to be stronger and deeper this season. There's a four-tackle battle going on for the two starting positions, with any two of L.J. Shelton, Vernon Carey, Damien McIntosh, and Mike Pearson figuring to win the spots.

The guard spots are a bit more concrete, with Jeno James and Seth McKinney sitting on top of the depth charts at left and right guard, although McKinney may be out for 2-3 months after surgery, likely putting former Bills and Ravens starter Bennie Anderson into the starting lineup. Rex Hadnot figures to start at center, where he enjoyed some fair bit of success last season.

Depth may be a concern, especially inside after McKinney's injury, but it may also not be as bad as it seems. Carey, a former first-rounder, has the ability to play inside at guard, and former starter Wade Smith can play all across the line, including at center. Rookie Joe Toledo, a former TE who made an excellent transition to tackle, has the bulk and athleticism to play inside in Mularkey's scheme. Having players with that type of flexibility along the line is always a boon for a team.

Defense
Defensive Line: In the Dolphins' hybrid 4-3/3-4 defense, flexibility is a huge key for defensive linemen, and their roster is built well for it. Pass-rushing ends Jason Taylor and Matt Roth both displayed a good ability to shift from 4-3 DE to a 3-4 OLB role last season, and players like Vonnie Holliday, David Bowens, Kevin Carter, and Jeff Zgonina also played rotational and moving roles as well along the line, switching in and out between DE in the 3-4 and a rotating role between DE and DT in the 4-3 front.

Conor Dowley has no ties to the Dolphins at all. He doesn't write for them and doesn't know what he is talking about. And if you think Matt Roth has ever played 3-4 OLB you haven't watched a game in years. I don't care what he says I have watch the Dolphins every game for years and Matt Roth has never played OLB at Miami.

For you to suggest otherwise makes me wonder if you even watch the team. And as you point out Kevin Carter and Vonnie Holliday were the starting DE's in 2005 and 2006 but I don't know how that changes that fact that Matt Roth was a 3-4 DE. Just because he was a backup doesn't mean he didn't play the position.

But enough, I'm done talking about the BS with you. You obviously pull crap from thin air and post it like there's truth behind it when anyone that was watched the Dolphins knows you have no idea what you are talking about.

I can't believe I'm actually arguing with a guy that says Matt Roth is a LB. How crazy is this? Where are the other Dolphins fans when I need them. They need to put you in our place with this Matt Roth crap.

Joeyjr09
04-01-2008, 04:30 PM
You dont know for a fact that Jason Taylor is being dealt. You are going off of rumors that writers are throwing out there. Parcells and Sparano have both come out and stated that he isnt going anywhere. Yeah it could be a smoke screen but it comes a time where credibility has to come into play with your fan base. Taylor is beloved in this community and if you think throwing dimes out there like yeah we are going to keep Taylor and then trading him is alienating a fan base even more that hasnt seen a winner in years. Some times they are telling the truth and sometimes common sense has to kick in.

So keeping JT at age 34, on the decline with a bad contract instead of trading him for a high pick is common sense? Man would I love live on the planet you come from.

Common sense is to trade the man while he has value so your team will get better. Keeping him for because of fans is done out of emotion, not out of common sense.

keylime_5
04-01-2008, 04:37 PM
Taylor knows and the Dolphins know and everyone knows that Taylor is almost done, he's not gonna try to play as long as he can like McGinest or Bruce Smith, he's probably got 1 or 2 years before he retires. Porter will be cut in 2009 if he doesn't produce this season for the Parcells/Sporano regime. Chris Long CAN play DE and OLB for the Dolphins, who haven't really ran a true 3-4 yet but rather more of a hybrid to date, so even if they plan to go 3-4 all the time they can a lot of versatility in their scheme with Chris Long. I'm still waiting for someone to show me some inside info or anything from league circles saying Jake Long is who Miami is leaning towards b/c I've heard maybe a million times they're still leaning towards Howie's boy.

BeerBaron
04-01-2008, 04:38 PM
Taylor knows and the Dolphins know and everyone knows that Taylor is almost done, he's not gonna try to play as long as he can like McGinest or Bruce Allen, he's probably got 1 or 2 years before he retires. Porter will be cut in 2009 if he doesn't produce this season for the Parcells/Sporano regime. Chris Long CAN play DE and OLB for the Dolphins, who haven't really ran a true 3-4 yet but rather more of a hybrid to date, so even if they plan to go 3-4 all the time they can a lot of versatility in their scheme with Chris Long.

didnt know he played football for a real long time, lol. i think you mean bruce smith...

keylime_5
04-01-2008, 04:38 PM
Bruce Smith. **** names.

vinivedivichi
04-01-2008, 05:34 PM
They are going to take it right down to the wire hoping for a deal, guaranteed. Unless they can make a trade in the days leading up to April 26 that is.

Here is my read on it if they get stuck at #1:

Jake Long: 55%
Chris Long: 45%

Scott, I understand the broader point you are making, but just wanted to make sure that I'm not reading too much into this; are you saying that you are 100% sure that, if the Dolphins keep the pick, they will select either of Jake or Chris Long?

I am pretty sure they will select one of the Longs (and I think Jake is the probable pick), but the possibility of a Gholston or Ryan seems to be out there. Do you have information that leads you to believe it's a two man race, or was this just for argument's sake?

BigBlueCrew56
04-01-2008, 05:40 PM
Scott is looking at it in a logical approach. Looking at the current depth chart, salary implications, and draft scenarios. 3-4 OLB's can be had later in the draft because non of them will project higher then the OT's that are going to come off the board rather early. If Miami doesnt commit to there offensive line early then they are going to be picking the 7th best tackle in the 2nd instead of taking the 2 or 3 best corner,linebacker, or QB. Taking Jake Long at #1 sets up the rest of the draft for the Phins to concentrate on the BPA which should be of great value at those other positions. Jake Long has the same draft grade as Chris Long,Matt Ryan, and even better then Vernon Gholston. Why not take him

keylime_5
04-01-2008, 06:20 PM
It might make sense to draft a tackle over a DE if your Miami, but it's not that simple, which is probably the reason why Miami is gonna pick Chris Long over Jake. Both grade out as top 5 picks, but Chris is they're guy I guess and he is simply a player they can't pass up on compared to Jake, who looks like he might go 2nd or 3rd overall, probably 3rd, instead of #1. From what I hear and what I can gather Jake won't be picked #1 based on Miami's interest and Gholston won't be a top 5 pick either this year.

BigBlueCrew56
04-01-2008, 06:32 PM
Conor Dowley has no ties to the Dolphins at all. He doesn't write for them and doesn't know what he is talking about. And if you think Matt Roth has ever played 3-4 OLB you haven't watched a game in years. I don't care what he says I have watch the Dolphins every game for years and Matt Roth has never played OLB at Miami.

For you to suggest otherwise makes me wonder if you even watch the team. And as you point out Kevin Carter and Vonnie Holliday were the starting DE's in 2005 and 2006 but I don't know how that changes that fact that Matt Roth was a 3-4 DE. Just because he was a backup doesn't mean he didn't play the position.

But enough, I'm done talking about the BS with you. You obviously pull crap from thin air and post it like there's truth behind it when anyone that was watched the Dolphins knows you have no idea what you are talking about.

I can't believe I'm actually arguing with a guy that says Matt Roth is a LB. How crazy is this? Where are the other Dolphins fans when I need them. They need to put you in our place with this Matt Roth crap.


Joey you keep on twisting my freakin words damnit! I suggested the possibility of Matt Roth playing 3-4 OLB. It was a suggestion because he is listed at 6'4 272 much like the very Chris Long you want to play 3-4 OLB for the Dolphins. What dont you get about this bro. It was a damn suggestion. I remember back when Roth was drafted that many experts said he would be able to play 3-4 OLB so I am bringing it to the open as an option. Stop attacking my credibility as someone who doesnt know what there talking because I want to voice a suggestion like many other people on this forum do. I have seen the Dolphins play a ton since I do happen to live in Broward County and do attend Phins games and I do remember seeing Matt Roth in hybrid sets but never as a true 3-4 Defensive end. I might be wrong but that is what I remember. There might have been a time or two after a good tail gate when Roth spelled Holliday or Carter at end in a non hybrid set but it doesnt stick out to me.

BigBlueCrew56
04-01-2008, 06:42 PM
Chris Long could absolutely be the pick but there is more logical info pointing towards Jake Long. Now the phins can throw that logical point of view out the window and very well take Chris Long. But looking at things for what they currently are.....Jake Long makes all the sense in the world for them and is a no brainer in my opinion. 3-4 OLB's will be there every single year from picks 10 and beyond. If Taylor or Porter arent on the team next year then OLB will be the focus in next year's draft. In the mean time they have a year to play with since Porter and Taylor are still in the roster.

The Legend
04-01-2008, 06:46 PM
Jake Long: 55%
Chris Long: 45%

im thinking
Jake Long: 45%
Chris Long: 55%

Paranoidmoonduck
04-01-2008, 06:46 PM
I've heard big waves made over Miami's lack of a huge presence at Jake Long's pro day, but considering the lack of his participation at it, I think it's a non-issue.

Both Jake and Chris are the sort of football players you'd expect to appeal to Parcells, so then you just wonder of the philosophy the Miami management is taking with this pick. I think the presence of Taylor and Porter should be considered, but both are north of 30 and probably don't have more than another two or three seasons on the team at most. A tackle is a more direct need, but in the long term both positions figure to be a need.

The uncertainty that has surrounded Jason Taylor all offseason (most recently the April Fool "retirement" that apparently scared Ireland) could point towards Chris, while Miami's multiple attempts to secure an offensive tackle could point at Jake Long. You could make a very strong argument for both, but thankfully we only have 4 weeks left to go.

etk
04-01-2008, 09:15 PM
Vernon Gholston FTW!!!

swollja
04-01-2008, 10:17 PM
Vernon Gholston FTW!!!

we already had david boston





im kidding

keylime_5
04-03-2008, 09:12 AM
im thinking
Jake Long: 45%
Chris Long: 55%

I tend to agree with that. I think C.Long is the pick but there's definitely a good chance it could be Jake. We'll see in the next few weeks. It's NOT gonna be Gholston or Ryan.

BamaFalcon59
04-03-2008, 07:52 PM
The problem is Dwight Freeney and Mario Williams are defensive ends, which is considered one of the 2-3 premium positions in the NFL. Chris Long will be an outside linebacker. That's an important distinction when it comes to money.

Plus overpaying by a 33% margin is a pretty big deal in my opinion.

I agree. Look at Terrell Suggs, and how he wanted to be slated as a defensive end instead of linebacker for the franchise tag so he could make more money. Then again, Suggs, Merriman, Ware, etc. are all going to get paid big money within the next two years.

BeerBaron
04-03-2008, 07:58 PM
I agree. Look at Terrell Suggs, and how he wanted to be slated as a defensive end instead of linebacker for the franchise tag so he could make more money. Then again, Suggs, Merriman, Ware, etc. are all going to get paid big money within the next two years.

i think the way suggs plays out could greatly affect what kind of money merriman and ware get.

if suggs were to be paid as a DE and get huge cash because of it, thats what merriman and ware would likely want too. but if hes forced to take slightly less LB kind of money, its going to be a little harder for the other 2 to try and push for DE money.

Abaddon
04-04-2008, 04:13 AM
If Jake Long goes #1 overall, I'll begin to panic.

If Matt Ryan goes 3rd, I may have a full blown panic attack.

That means either Chris Long or Glenn Dorsey will be there at #4. That would just be outstanding.