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kwilk103
04-01-2008, 09:03 AM
NFL | Stiff arms to face could become a 15-yard penalty
Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:14:43 -0700

Charean Williams, of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, reports the NFL's competition committee is recommending officials make stiff arms to the face a 15-yard penalty in 2008. Tennessee Titans head coach and co-chairman of the competition committee Jeff Fisher said "grabbing on or twisting" the face mask by an offensive player on a defensive player will be a 15-yard face mask penalty. Offensive players also will be flagged 15 yards for illegal hands to the face if they shove a defensive player backward with a stiff arm to the face, according to Fisher

Crickett
04-01-2008, 09:05 AM
I don't like this. This seems like something defensive players could abuse to negate running backs who stiff arm at all.

ChezPower4
04-01-2008, 09:43 AM
This would be a damn shame. I have always been a big fan of the stiff arm

Gay Ork Wang
04-01-2008, 09:47 AM
Setup for April 1st?

umphrey
04-01-2008, 10:17 AM
Marion Barber would be out of the league

Im_a_Romosexual
04-01-2008, 10:30 AM
seems ok to me. if you are a defender and grab and twist the ball carriers facemask its 15 yards. But if you go for the tackle get stiff armed and your facemask gets grabbed and twisted nothing happened. I just think it should go both ways.

However just a stiff arm to the face no grabbing/twisting of the facemask would still be ok imo

Turtlepower
04-01-2008, 10:50 AM
They do make a valid point that it is a double-standard that once again favors the offensive player.

I actually wouldn't be too much against this because I hate how more or less an offensive player can do whatever they want now while the defense has a million rules disallowing them from doing everything.

Addict
04-01-2008, 11:42 AM
They do make a valid point that it is a double-standard that once again favors the offensive player.

I actually wouldn't be too much against this because I hate how more or less an offensive player can do whatever they want now while the defense has a million rules disallowing them from doing everything.

yeah but it would still suck.

Turtlepower
04-01-2008, 11:43 AM
yeah but it would still suck.

It would, but it would also suck for someone to get a hand to a face and either get a concussion or a broken neck (unlikely, but possible).

AllDayFootball724
04-01-2008, 11:46 AM
Only should be flagged for twisting the face mask not a direct arm to the face mask.
If defenders get called for tackling by face mask it should apply to offensive players as well

Addict
04-01-2008, 11:48 AM
Only should be flagged for twisting the face mask not a direct arm to the face mask.
If defenders get called for tackling by face mask it should apply to offensive players as well

yeah... alllow touching, just no twisting.

Turtlepower
04-01-2008, 11:48 AM
Only should be flagged for twisting the face mask not a direct arm to the face mask.
If defenders get called for tackling by face mask it should apply to offensive players as well

If someone performs a stiff-arm and grabs the face mask, the refs can call a penalty already. The bigger question is hands to the face. I say if they don't let defensive players do it, offensive players shouldn't be allowed either.

The Unseen
04-01-2008, 11:52 AM
It seems like the competition committee is actually favoring defense over offense instead of the usually opposite.

Go_Eagles77
04-01-2008, 12:21 PM
Damn Brian Westbrook is a beast at that... hopefully it doesn't happen.

proshoota25
04-01-2008, 01:10 PM
thats awful

BufFan71
04-01-2008, 01:22 PM
no more of this?
http://images.sportsnetwork.com/football/college/allsport/bigeast/miami/mcgahee_willis1.jpg

PackerLegend
04-01-2008, 01:35 PM
I guess the rule would be ok if you grab and twist their face, but what is this turning into flag football.... two hand touch? More and more rules every year pretty soon there be a penalty every play.

Paranoidmoonduck
04-01-2008, 02:00 PM
Something about this strikes me as wrong. The facemask rule made sense, because tackling high or twisting a players neck could be incredibly dangerous (Dick Lane proved that). However, most tacklers lead with their hardhat, and making any stiff arm to the head a potential penalty would change a lot of things.

In the end, a defender can cause way more damage in stopping a player and bringing him to the ground by his facemask. All an offensive player is trying to do is get away.

Addict
04-01-2008, 02:06 PM
Something about this strikes me as wrong. The facemask rule made sense, because tackling high or twisting a players neck could be incredibly dangerous (Dick Lane proved that). However, most tacklers lead with their hardhat, and making any stiff arm to the head a potential penalty would change a lot of things.

In the end, a defender can cause way more damage in stopping a player and bringing him to the ground by his facemask. All an offensive player is trying to do is get away.

that... actually makes a lot of sense.

badgerbacker
04-01-2008, 02:40 PM
yeah... alllow touching, just no twisting.That is a pretty safe rule to live by. In football, and in life.

CC.SD
04-01-2008, 02:45 PM
http://cfx.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/cfx/lt_rams_stiffarm.jpg



LT stiffarms a Rams player's helmet off. Come on, no one wants to lose that.

Shahin
04-01-2008, 02:59 PM
Ugh...not much to say bout this.

Turtlepower
04-01-2008, 03:00 PM
People do realize that if an offensive player is giving you a stiff arm to the face, he is more or less punching you in the face...

Paranoidmoonduck
04-01-2008, 03:04 PM
People do realize that if an offensive player is giving you a stiff arm to the face, he is more or less punching you in the face...

And you do realize that the guy being "punched in the face" has a facemask and is trying the bring the guy doing the punching down as violently as possible, right?

AllDayFootball724
04-01-2008, 03:06 PM
how about the Jim Brown stiff arms

GB12
04-01-2008, 03:19 PM
Something about this strikes me as wrong. The facemask rule made sense, because tackling high or twisting a players neck could be incredibly dangerous (Dick Lane proved that). However, most tacklers lead with their hardhat, and making any stiff arm to the head a potential penalty would change a lot of things.

In the end, a defender can cause way more damage in stopping a player and bringing him to the ground by his facemask. All an offensive player is trying to do is get away.
Well if a corner hits a receiver in the facemask at the line it's a 5 yard penalty for hands to the face with an automatic first down. I don't see how a stiff arm is any different.

Turtlepower
04-01-2008, 03:21 PM
Well if a corner hits a receiver in the facemask at the line it's a 5 yard penalty for hands to the face with an automatic first down. I don't see how a stiff arm is any different.

Exactly my point. You can't have it one way and not the other.

Paranoidmoonduck
04-01-2008, 03:26 PM
Well if a corner hits a receiver in the facemask at the line it's a 5 yard penalty for hands to the face with an automatic first down. I don't see how a stiff arm is any different.

Because a stiff arm by a ball carrier is a defensive act, and almost any other form of it is an inherently offensive act. I do think that if a runner grabs an offensive players facemask and twists it around maliciously, that should be a penalty, but there's no real reason for a player to ever do that.

There is a definite difference between warding off large men trying to cause you bodily harm with a stiff arm and bringing a player to the ground by his facemask or smacking a player in the face when he doesn't even have the ball.

BlindSite
04-01-2008, 04:53 PM
You shouldn't be allowed to grab it, but then again in the speed of the game most face masks are missed anyway.

tjpackers
04-14-2008, 11:02 AM
no you shouldn't be able to grab the mask and pull the defender down but making facemasking a 15 yard penalty come on let the guys play soon you want be able to tackle it just be 2 hand touch

LonghornsLegend
04-14-2008, 01:04 PM
NFL | Stiff arms to face could become a 15-yard penalty
Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:14:43 -0700

Charean Williams, of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, reports the NFL's competition committee is recommending officials make stiff arms to the face a 15-yard penalty in 2008. Tennessee Titans head coach and co-chairman of the competition committee Jeff Fisher said "grabbing on or twisting" the face mask by an offensive player on a defensive player will be a 15-yard face mask penalty. Offensive players also will be flagged 15 yards for illegal hands to the face if they shove a defensive player backward with a stiff arm to the face, according to Fisher


Nooooo :(


Watching the Barbarian hand out "angry stiff-arms" was some of my best moments on Sunday, it almost looked like he was punching defenders, but hey, he's the one inflicting the punishment...That sucks though, why would you want to make the offensive player more susceptible to punishment.

Mr. Stiller
04-14-2008, 01:34 PM
I love this rule for one.

Frustrating to see a defender get a 15 yard for barely turning a head, then on the next play seeing the rb nearly twist a head off to no call.

This is about safety and I like it.

Mr. Stiller
04-14-2008, 01:38 PM
I guess the rule would be ok if you grab and twist their face, but what is this turning into flag football.... two hand touch? More and more rules every year pretty soon there be a penalty every play.

I don't see how this is destroying football. This is a play that can have really nasty results.

I don't see the difference between a Running back Twisting a defenders head around, or pulling him by the mask, and a Corner back doing it.

I forget who we played but I remember a Stiff arm (I believe LT) that twisted McFaddens helmet sideways.

Remember Antrell Rolle's Breakneck of Larry Johnson? That can happen if your the RB or CB?

tjpackers
04-14-2008, 01:58 PM
this is gonna hurt some RBs cause you know there still gonna stiff arm and think about it after

Thunder&Lightning
04-14-2008, 02:06 PM
Rule makes sense. Player like marion barber are going to have to change a little...

CC.SD
04-14-2008, 03:24 PM
This really sucks for LT.

fenikz
04-14-2008, 05:43 PM
i dont think they mean the normal stiff arm pushing the guys away like everyone is showing here but more of the punching type where you just tee off on a defensive player

Mr. Stiller
04-14-2008, 06:29 PM
i dont think they mean the normal stiff arm pushing the guys away like everyone is showing here but more of the punching type where you just tee off on a defensive player

You can stiff arm, just not grab the facemask and twist the players head.. just like the defensive context.

Gay Ork Wang
04-14-2008, 06:33 PM
so u can still push them down i.e.?

Burns336
04-14-2008, 07:17 PM
The competition committee did a good thing by eliminating the 5 yard incidental face mask by defenders, but this no stiff's to the face from the offense is ********.

This is turning into a game for women.

I could see no grabbing and twisting (but who does that anyway), but no stiff arms at all to the face? What a joke.

This rule will get changed back after people see how annoying the game is when a RB gets a 15 yard penalty for a stiff arm.

Burns336
04-14-2008, 07:18 PM
i dont think they mean the normal stiff arm pushing the guys away like everyone is showing here but more of the punching type where you just tee off on a defensive player

No, I believe you cannot touch the defensive players head at all, just the chest and below.

It's stupid because now a player has to think about where they are going to stiff arm a guy instead of just being able to react.

EDIT: it should also be considered that the offensive player only has 1 free hand, whereas the defensive player has 2. The offense should be allowed a little more leeway with where they put that 1 hand.

PoopSandwich
04-14-2008, 07:24 PM
Just try to fairly push them away to the chest or whatever... Grabbing a dude in the facemask and jerking his neck back is kind of cheap.

Bucs_Rule
04-14-2008, 07:35 PM
A back should be allowed to stick his hand on the defenders face mask or push off him, but holding on to it and pulling it should definitly be a penalty. I do love a good hard stiff arm, looks like those will be a thing of the past.

PoopSandwich
04-14-2008, 07:44 PM
A back should be allowed to stick his hand on the defenders face mask or push off him, but holding on to it and pulling it should definitly be a penalty. I do love a good hard stiff arm, looks like those will be a thing of the past.

Those who are opposed will ask should a defender be allowed to go full force into an offender and push his head back by the face mask?

yourfavestoner
04-14-2008, 07:51 PM
Usually, a runner stiff arms a defender in the face because the defender leapt at the runner and is leading with his helmet and the stiff arm is the only defense. So if runners aren't allowed to defend themselves from this, then I assume we're going to see an increase in Spearing calls against the defense.

Mr. Stiller
04-14-2008, 07:54 PM
so u can still push them down i.e.?

I believe that when the player is coming at you, you can push the back of the helmet or top if they lower their head, or stiff arm to the chest.

It's not that their outlawing stiff arms, they just don't want injuries to the defensive players.

I know Emmitt Smith was a pretty bad stiff-arm facemasker.. I remember watching a Thanksgiving game where he grabbed a facemask and drug the guy with him an additional 10 yards while twisting his head non-stop.


I think people are overreacting, it's not the death of the stiffarm, just the death of facemasking both sides of the ball.

Mr. Stiller
04-14-2008, 07:56 PM
Usually, a runner stiff arms a defender in the face because the defender leapt at the runner and is leading with his helmet and the stiff arm is the only defense. So if runners aren't allowed to defend themselves from this, then I assume we're going to see an increase in Spearing calls against the defense.

So if Brandon Jacobs is running down some 5'9 180lb CB, he can't get pulled down by his facemask, but the runner can grab his facemask and twist it?

I mean, every position is held to the illegal hands to the face rule.. except RB's. Until now.

BaLLiN
04-14-2008, 08:46 PM
i agree with the twisting thing, and definately if they stick their fingers in the facemask, idk if its already a rule but im pretty sure it is. Its not fair because a player can tackle right when their head is being twisted all over. but idk about pushing a player to the ground being a penalty, its a physical sport, lets keep it that way.

Nalej
04-14-2008, 09:25 PM
I do agree with the majority that touchin, not twisting or grabbing, should be allowed.
Stiff arms are one of my favorite moves in football.

Komp
04-14-2008, 10:49 PM
If this rule goes through you will see guys change how they hand out their stiff arms, i.e. players will be aiming for defenders chest/shoulder pads. IMO those are generally the best stiff arms anyways.....I also think that RB's will only be penalized when its a particularly vicious stiff arm to the head.

As long as this rule is applied and enforced properly I don't have a problem with it.

J-Hype
04-20-2008, 08:30 PM
im a big fan of the stiff arm too and its my best move i think when im playing football but the way i see it as long as its a flat hand to the face it should be fine. as long as you dont grab or punch a dude across the face mask it should be fine. For fairness dont the defensive lineman club people across the head i think a big guy like that could kill someone hitting people like they do. but after all is said and done its football players know what their getting their selves into and their being paid big bucks just to play football they got pads on let them play

Mr. Stiller
04-21-2008, 12:20 AM
im a big fan of the stiff arm too and its my best move i think when im playing football but the way i see it as long as its a flat hand to the face it should be fine. as long as you dont grab or punch a dude across the face mask it should be fine. For fairness dont the defensive lineman club people across the head i think a big guy like that could kill someone hitting people like they do. but after all is said and done its football players know what their getting their selves into and their being paid big bucks just to play football they got pads on let them play


Offensive Lineman, Defense as a whole can not touch an opposing players face/helmet. There's an "Illegal Hands to the face" or "Facemasking" when a player does this.

Offensive Skills positions are the only ones allowed to attack the face of an opposing player. I could go either way, keep the stiff arms and let everyone tackle by the facemask, or outlaw it all together.

buckeyes4ever
04-21-2008, 10:46 AM
Something about this strikes me as wrong. The facemask rule made sense, because tackling high or twisting a players neck could be incredibly dangerous (Dick Lane proved that). However, most tacklers lead with their hardhat, and making any stiff arm to the head a potential penalty would change a lot of things.

In the end, a defender can cause way more damage in stopping a player and bringing him to the ground by his facemask. All an offensive player is trying to do is get away.

This is true, its not like tey are bringing them down with it or holding on for any extended period of time as they are trying to get away from the tackler and want to be in contact with him as little as possible.

my future me
04-21-2008, 01:01 PM
I wonder if they'll call it the Marion Barber rule


Its going to be difficult to enforce cause alot of smaller CBs and LBs lead with their helmet anyway and sometimes there's nowhere else to land a stiff arm. Its still a better rule change than the no pushout clause

someone447
04-21-2008, 01:50 PM
I wonder if they'll call it the Marion Barber rule


Its going to be difficult to enforce cause alot of smaller CBs and LBs lead with their helmet anyway and sometimes there's nowhere else to land a stiff arm. Its still a better rule change than the no pushout clause

The change regarding pushouts is an awesome change, give some of the rules back to the defense. Make the receivers get their feet in. I'll admit I have a bias considering I am a DB, but the force out rule was just ridiculous.

my future me
04-21-2008, 02:00 PM
Hey I understand that it was inconsistent. But without the pushout rule then the field becomes much to narrow. Anybody lining up within 5 yards of the outofbounds marker has to be running an in or a skinny post cause there's not enough room for an out. Any QB that specializes in touch passes will be hurt by this. Theoretically, you can carry a WR out of bounds because he never establishes posession on the field.

someone447
04-21-2008, 02:41 PM
Hey I understand that it was inconsistent. But without the pushout rule then the field becomes much to narrow. Anybody lining up within 5 yards of the outofbounds marker has to be running an in or a skinny post cause there's not enough room for an out. Any QB that specializes in touch passes will be hurt by this. Theoretically, you can carry a WR out of bounds because he never establishes posession on the field.

College doesn't have the force out. Out of bounds should be out of bounds, period.

my future me
04-21-2008, 02:52 PM
Its impossible to compare the throwing windows, speed of the game, and DBs awareness, strength, and ability in the NFL to that of the college game. I completely understand why the NFL changed the rule, but I'd rather have that rule (universally enforced) than not have the rule at all.

If the NFL wants to limit the number of judgement calls made during a game, they really need to examine the inconsistency of foward progress

katnip
04-23-2008, 04:58 PM
Bad idea. Although. I don't think A.D. stiff armed that much.