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SC79
04-02-2008, 03:17 PM
Keith Rivers just ran a 4.51
Chauncey Washington just ran 4.35

toonsterwu
04-02-2008, 03:19 PM
Well, that's a nice time for Chauncey. Based on past translations, that puts him in the mid-4.4 range, but at that size, that's still nice.

Solid time for Rivers as well. A 4.6ish time was fine. Although everyone knew he was athletic, so if anything, more curious about his position drills.

Race for the Heisman
04-02-2008, 03:20 PM
IBTL?Citation?/Why not in Pro Day thread? It's not like USC is special or anything. If this was player-specific, maybe, but myeh.

soybean
04-02-2008, 03:20 PM
4.35? lol. that's why you should never trust pro day times, no way is he that fast.

LonghornsLegend
04-02-2008, 03:23 PM
Yayy, another school gets its own pro day thread, at least this one was very informative:rolleyes:


Rivers is already a stud to me, I dont think he could of improved his stock much more then it is and being there isnt alot of 4-3 olb's with a 1st rd grade his draft stock is going to stay where its at.

Jericho@SC
04-02-2008, 03:25 PM
Well I saw it with my own two eyes. Chauncey certainly looked that fast. He probably slimmed down a lot though to run at this speed.

I really don't see what there is to be skeptical about. He ran it on a turf field. It was electronically timed. Legit.

USC actually used to do their 40 times on the track surrounding the field (Reggie Bush ran it on the track). If Chauncey had done it on the track, he could have run low 4.3s

soybean
04-02-2008, 03:28 PM
he's not as fast as bush. i didn't see the pro day so i can't really dismiss it but it's kind of unbelievable mainly because he was never really that homerun threat.

Geo
04-02-2008, 03:54 PM
Fast track much? Yeesh. Par for the course from Southern Cal, I suppose.

And I don't think anyone doubted that Washington has the talent from the neck down.

CC.SD
04-02-2008, 03:57 PM
Chauncey running a 4.35 is such a gag; every scout is laughing at that time. I know I am, and I'm a Trojan for life.

thebow305
04-02-2008, 05:09 PM
Certainly didn't see Chauncey running that fast. Seems like that can only help his stock come draft time. We knew Rivers was fast.

Geo
04-02-2008, 08:33 PM
Rotoworld had these blurbs from Mayock:

Fred Davis-TE- Player Apr. 2 - 6:43 pm et
USC TE Fred Davis ran a disappointing forty at the Trojans' Pro Day Wednesday, timing in the 4.7s.

NFL Network's Mike Mayock said Davis also struggled to finish his change-of-direction drills and did not appear fluid. Davis relied on his vertical skills during a breakout senior campaign, so the poor workout may send up a red flag. It was the first time Davis (knee) has worked out this offseason.


Keith Rivers-LB- Player Apr. 2 - 6:40 pm et
NFL Network's Mike Mayock reports USC LB Keith Rivers ran a 4.58 forty at his Pro Day Wednesday.

Mayock said Rivers "almost hit the ceiling" of the USC weight room with his 42" vertical. Rivers will likely be limited to the weak side in an NFL 4-3, but should be an impact player regardless. He's a certain first-round pick.


Sedrick Ellis-DL- Player Apr. 2 - 6:37 pm et
USC DT Sedrick Ellis ran a 5.01 forty at the Trojans' Pro Day, according to NFL Network's Mike Mayock.

Ellis' forty at the NFL Combine was 5.24, so this is remarkable improvement. He's shed about 10 lbs since February and now is just under 300. Ellis added 36 reps of 225 on the bench press. He posted a 30" vertical jump.
Not surprised on Davis, I was suspecting as much.

Mayock's biased for Rivers, so you wonder about objectivity, but I'll take him at his word. Rivers is legit, he just needs one team to draft him earlier rather than later.

Ellis' remarkably better 40 time only fuels the fire that Southern Cal has an incredibly fast track, and that any times should be adjusted.

foozball
04-02-2008, 08:34 PM
lawrence jackson?

Zyro_1014
04-02-2008, 10:17 PM
Rotoworld had these blurbs from Mayock:


Not surprised on Davis, I was suspecting as much.

Mayock's biased for Rivers, so you wonder about objectivity, but I'll take him at his word. Rivers is legit, he just needs one team to draft him earlier rather than later.

Ellis' remarkably better 40 time only fuels the fire that Southern Cal has an incredibly fast track, and that any times should be adjusted.

too bad all of them ran there 40's on the field turf on there practice field.....fast track?????

jballa838
04-02-2008, 10:34 PM
too bad all of them ran there 40's on the field turf on there practice field.....fast track?????
indoors on field turf is incredibly fast.

Iamcanadian
04-02-2008, 11:28 PM
too bad all of them ran there 40's on the field turf on there practice field.....fast track?????

Considering that Terrell Thomas ran faster at the combine than he did on this track, I wouldn't jump to too many conclusions about how fast a track it is. Washington has kept a lot of great RB's riding the bench at USC and only injuries have kept us from realizing how good he might have been. I think he could be a great steal on day 2 of the draft if he can stay healthy.
When guys like Thomas and Davis run only average to mediocre 40 times, it is rather foolish to assume this track is faster than the one at the combine.

asmitty45
04-02-2008, 11:30 PM
Washington certainly helped himself if this time is legit, if not he may not get drafted.

toonsterwu
04-02-2008, 11:32 PM
I think Ellis dropping weight is a very interesting side note. If he's weighing less than 3 bills, then all the 3-4 NT talk likely goes out the window. Sure, he could still do it (weight is a bit overrated, always nice to have, but not an absolute necessity), but I doubt teams would be as intrigued to gamble on him as a 3-4 NT that high.

Davis looking poorly would give an opening to Carlson, Bennett to potentially secure the 2nd/3rd TE positions.

Iamcanadian
04-02-2008, 11:45 PM
I think Ellis dropping weight is a very interesting side note. If he's weighing less than 3 bills, then all the 3-4 NT talk likely goes out the window. Sure, he could still do it (weight is a bit overrated, always nice to have, but not an absolute necessity), but I doubt teams would be as intrigued to gamble on him as a 3-4 NT that high.

Davis looking poorly would give an opening to Carlson, Bennett to potentially secure the 2nd/3rd TE positions.


Actually, a 4.7's 40 isn't all that bad for a TE just not elite.

Caddy
04-03-2008, 01:32 AM
Actually, a 4.7's 40 isn't all that bad for a TE just not elite.

I doubt toon is basing his comment about Davis purely on the forty time. I'm sure the other problems alluded to courtesy of Geo's post lead to that conclusion.

toonsterwu
04-03-2008, 01:48 AM
Yeah, I was simply referencing the comments above, although I will say that a 4.7ish time that likely gets translated down isn't good for Fred's value. He's viewed as a guy to stretch the seams, and a 4.7ish time isn't going to help in that regards, and anything translated down would likely hurt his value.

CC.SD
04-03-2008, 02:27 AM
Yeah, I was simply referencing the comments above, although I will say that a 4.7ish time that likely gets translated down isn't good for Fred's value. He's viewed as a guy to stretch the seams, and a 4.7ish time isn't going to help in that regards, and anything translated down would likely hurt his value.

I agree with you, but honestly if you're looking at 40 time as the main reason to draft a tight end, your name is probably Al Davis. Fred (no relation) has dependable hands and has shown he can find the open spots on the field. He's a playmaker, and I don't think a 4.7 drops him.

I doubt Gates runs much better than a 4.7, but his game is so elite that it doesn't matter. I think Fred is going to be a big factor very early in his career.

Scott Wright
04-03-2008, 02:57 AM
I think Davis is overrated. For a former wide receiver who's calling card is supposed to be his skills as a pass catcher since he's not a very good blocker but the tools just don't seem to be there. He drops ball at the Combine and his Pro Day, he doesn't run very fast... At best Davis will be my #3 tight end when I update the rankings behind Carlson and Keller.

nobodyinparticular
04-03-2008, 03:41 AM
I agree with you, but honestly if you're looking at 40 time as the main reason to draft a tight end, your name is probably Al Davis. Fred (no relation) has dependable hands and has shown he can find the open spots on the field. He's a playmaker, and I don't think a 4.7 drops him.

I doubt Gates runs much better than a 4.7, but his game is so elite that it doesn't matter. I think Fred is going to be a big factor very early in his career.

Like Zack Miller running a 4.9 and getting drafted in the 2nd round by the Raiders?

Abaddon
04-03-2008, 04:10 AM
Al was taking his afternoon nap at that point. ;)

Ellis added 36 reps of 225 on the bench press. He posted a 30" vertical jump.
Somebody wake Al up. He may want to see this.

Paranoidmoonduck
04-03-2008, 04:31 AM
Assuming that the first three picks fall in a way that sees both Long's and Dorsey come off the board, I think Ellis may be the most likely pick for Oakland. All genuine evidence that can be gleaned from Oakland's offseason would suggest that rebuilding that defensive line might as well be priority #1, #2, and #3. After the Edwards signing, I have a hard time seeing Oakland going for Gholston over Ellis.

The key is going to be exactly how confident they are in the state of the left tackle position. As an outsider, I can say that it worries me more than any other spot on the team, but no one seems to know anything about the progression of Mario Henderson and who knows what Cable thinks Kwame Harris capable of.

Abaddon
04-03-2008, 04:58 AM
My opinion of our LT position pretty much mirrors yours. It looks like absolute dog poop from my chair. But, if Al is giving any credence at all to Cable's opinion, I very seriously doubt we're going to go out and drop a high pick or large coin on a LT.

I don't think Edwards will carry much weight on draft day. He's on a 2 year deal that's almost certainly a 1 year contract with a possibility of restructuring Year 2 if he plays well. Burgess' future with the team could be in doubt, and there is literally nobody else on the roster who can even disturb the air around a QB as an outside pass rusher.

But, I'm all over the Ellis pick if Clong and Dorsey are gone. His production, effort, and offseason seem to justify the pick even if most think him a reach there.

Paranoidmoonduck
04-03-2008, 05:12 AM
I think that if Jake Long falls, he could potentially be the pick. There's definitely similarities to be drawn to Robert Gallery, but whether that would play in his favor or not remains to be seen. We'll have to sit back and see if Jake's visit to Oakland next week yields any legitimate news.

I think the Edwards signing makes a certain impact, at least in regards to Gholston, because Oakland is obviously trying to put all their eggs into the '08, '09, and '10 basket without completely hamstringing the team beyond that. Of course, the conventionally ideal situation would be to target Russell's 5th or 6th year as the year to have everything gel, but the unique position of Al Davis' health and the salary cap situation have prompted them to accelerate the process. Investing top five money into yet another edge rusher seems highly unlikely, especially when the team has been very successful lately in regards to picking up less than well thought of pass rush specialists and having them turn in big seasons.

Iamcanadian
04-03-2008, 07:44 AM
Assuming that the first three picks fall in a way that sees both Long's and Dorsey come off the board, I think Ellis may be the most likely pick for Oakland. All genuine evidence that can be gleaned from Oakland's offseason would suggest that rebuilding that defensive line might as well be priority #1, #2, and #3. After the Edwards signing, I have a hard time seeing Oakland going for Gholston over Ellis.

The key is going to be exactly how confident they are in the state of the left tackle position. As an outsider, I can say that it worries me more than any other spot on the team, but no one seems to know anything about the progression of Mario Henderson and who knows what Cable thinks Kwame Harris capable of.

After what they paid Russell last year, they have to be desperate for a LT to protect his blindside. Henderson and Harris simply won't get the job done. If Jake is there at #4, which I doubt, he'll probably be a Raider or if he's off the board, Oakland could still draft Albert or Clady and shock everyone which Al has been doing for years. I certainly wouldn't rule out the LT position in their considerations.

Geo
04-03-2008, 08:57 AM
I think Davis is overrated. For a former wide receiver who's calling card is supposed to be his skills as a pass catcher since he's not a very good blocker but the tools just don't seem to be there. He drops ball at the Combine and his Pro Day, he doesn't run very fast... At best Davis will be my #3 tight end when I update the rankings behind Carlson and Keller.
Darn, there goes the window of opportunity of Carlson reaching the Colts' pick. I dislike Davis even more now. :mad:

Solomon
04-03-2008, 01:42 PM
I think Davis is overrated. For a former wide receiver who's calling card is supposed to be his skills as a pass catcher since he's not a very good blocker but the tools just don't seem to be there. He drops ball at the Combine and his Pro Day, he doesn't run very fast... At best Davis will be my #3 tight end when I update the rankings behind Carlson and Keller.

I don't know...4.69 and 4.70 speed really isn't bad for a TE. I'm not sure where you heard that he dropped balls at his pro day. The reports I read said that he caught almost everything except one poorly thrown pass.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ys-uscproday040308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

IMO Keller is #1, Bennett #2 and Davis #3 followed closely by Carlson. Keller is the best receiving threat but I don't know if he has the requisite height or weight to be a full time TE, he might project best as an H Back or multi purpose weapon in the Chris Cooley, Kris Wilson mold. Bennet isn't polished but he's got a very high ceiling and the best combo of size and athleticism among TEs in the draft. Carlson is a better blocker than Davis (although as far as inline blocking goes they're about on par both below average), and is taller but Davis is faster with a better burst (forget about times and just watch him on tape) and is much better after the catch. Davis' ability to break tackles and pick up yards after the catch is really what seperates himself from alot of the TEs in this draft.

Teams which put more of a premium on TEs blocking probably rate Carlson higher than Davis but personally I feel that if such a premium is placed on blocking then Cottam should be considered the best TE available for that particular kind of a team.

Abaddon
04-03-2008, 02:41 PM
After what they paid Russell last year, they have to be desperate for a LT to protect his blindside. Henderson and Harris simply won't get the job done. If Jake is there at #4, which I doubt, he'll probably be a Raider or if he's off the board, Oakland could still draft Albert or Clady and shock everyone which Al has been doing for years. I certainly wouldn't rule out the LT position in their considerations.
If we were running a traditional man blocking scheme, this would have merit. But
under the current circumstances, I don't think this pick goes anywhere but the D-line.

That rd4 pick, on the other hand, might be OL. Probably should be DL again, but there'll probably be a really fast cornerback there that Al just won't be able to pass on.

Abaddon
04-03-2008, 02:47 PM
I think that if Jake Long falls, he could potentially be the pick. There's definitely similarities to be drawn to Robert Gallery, but whether that would play in his favor or not remains to be seen. We'll have to sit back and see if Jake's visit to Oakland next week yields any legitimate news.

I think the Edwards signing makes a certain impact, at least in regards to Gholston, because Oakland is obviously trying to put all their eggs into the '08, '09, and '10 basket without completely hamstringing the team beyond that. Of course, the conventionally ideal situation would be to target Russell's 5th or 6th year as the year to have everything gel, but the unique position of Al Davis' health and the salary cap situation have prompted them to accelerate the process. Investing top five money into yet another edge rusher seems highly unlikely, especially when the team has been very successful lately in regards to picking up less than well thought of pass rush specialists and having them turn in big seasons.
I wouldn't call two lucky breaks (Burgess, Clemons) being "very successful". More like that blind squirrel avoiding starvation again.