PDA

View Full Version : Mike Mayock's latest rankings with some real changes


Iamcanadian
04-02-2008, 10:43 PM
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80406b71&template=with-video&confirm=true

Phillips has moved to the top of the Safeties with Johnson 2nd and Morgan 3rd.
Campbell's back on as the #5 DE.
Mayo is the #1 ILB with Connors #2.
There are other changes as well.

asmitty45
04-02-2008, 11:14 PM
Mendenhall as the #1 RB? thats surprising, i dont know if thats a change or not but im still kinda shocked by that.

kmartin575
04-02-2008, 11:21 PM
Mayock freaking pisses me off. His rankings are ridiculous.

toonsterwu
04-02-2008, 11:30 PM
Mendenhall as the #1 RB? thats surprising, i dont know if thats a change or not but im still kinda shocked by that.

That isn't a change. He's had Mendenhall at number 1 all the way through.

I think these are the same rankings I saw the other day. If so (too lazy to check right now, but I doubt he's updated his rankings again in the last couple days), the only thing that was somewhat interesting was LB's and Keglar jumping up. I can see that happening, though, and the other thing is that, there's probably a lot of LB's jumbled together (thus Erin Henderson wasn't in the picture from what I recall.

MetSox17
04-02-2008, 11:30 PM
Didn't he have Jerod Mayo completely out of the LB rankings, and now
he has him rated #1 at inside 'backer?? hmm..

Iamcanadian
04-02-2008, 11:42 PM
Didn't he have Jerod Mayo completely out of the LB rankings, and now
he has him rated #1 at inside 'backer?? hmm..

That's correct. He has clearly indicated that his rankings are still being fine tuned and that he is prepared to admit he was wrong in the past.
As the pro days continue, I'm sure we'll see more changes. The last few days has seen for example, Ezra Butler LB, have a tremendous workout, 6' 5/8", 240lbs. He ran a 4.51 and a 4.57 40, 39" vertical, 7.15 cone, 4.17 short shuttle with 18 bench presses while Beau Bell had a terrible workout although he is slightly injured.
A real interesting prospect is Chadron St.'s Danny Woodhead 5'71/2, 197lbs who was sensational at a lower level competition "who ran a 4.38 and a 4.40 40, 38" vertical, 7.03 cone, 4.20 short shuttle with 20 bench presses. Very interesting day 2 guy.

art vandelay
04-03-2008, 12:03 AM
Why does he hate Brohm so much? #4 QB?

blackbelt3d
04-03-2008, 12:14 AM
Wow... Tyrell Johnson is skyrocketing up the draft boards...

Wasn't he a mid/late rounder just a few months ago? Now we're talking what, early 2nd/late 1st based on recent rankings?

toonsterwu
04-03-2008, 12:19 AM
Why does he hate Brohm so much? #4 QB?

I think everyone can acknowledge that 2-4 for the QB rankings is fairly tight right now. It very well could be Brohm at 2 instead of 4. Although there seems to be a growing push that Henne has the 2 spot.

toonsterwu
04-03-2008, 12:22 AM
Wow... Tyrell Johnson is skyrocketing up the draft boards...

Wasn't he a mid/late rounder just a few months ago? Now we're talking what, early 2nd/late 1st based on recent rankings?

I think for Johnson, it was a case that many people saw small school and didn't consider him highly as a reslt. I think there were many like me that, at the beginning of the cycle, felt that his track record (excellent) along with his physical potential made him a possible 3rd/4th. He's supposedly done well in the process this offseason, so yes, I can see him in the 2 spot. That said, the 2 spot for safeties is probably, at best, a mid-2nd grade.

EvilMonkey
04-03-2008, 12:26 AM
Why does he hate Brohm so much? #4 QB?

Flacco has a ton more upside than Brohm and Henne is a 4-year starter against great competition his whole career and went to a school that routinely produces good QBs. I dont necessarily agree with having Brohm #4 but I can understand some reasoning behind why Mayock puts him there.

Iamcanadian
04-03-2008, 12:28 AM
Wow... Tyrell Johnson is skyrocketing up the draft boards...

Wasn't he a mid/late rounder just a few months ago? Now we're talking what, early 2nd/late 1st based on recent rankings?

When you play small college football where you hardly ever get to play against real talent, pro scouts and GM's tend to discredit game film and wait to see these guys perform at the combine or pro days before passing final judgment. I agree, he appears to be moving up draft boards especially since the Safety position is so weak in this year's draft.

Paranoidmoonduck
04-03-2008, 01:29 AM
It looks like Mayock soured on Early Doucet. I'm a big fan of Tyrell Johnson getting his props though.

art vandelay
04-03-2008, 01:47 AM
I think everyone can acknowledge that 2-4 for the QB rankings is fairly tight right now. It very well could be Brohm at 2 instead of 4. Although there seems to be a growing push that Henne has the 2 spot.

Pretty crazy to me that Henne has surpassed Brohm when he could barely stay healthy in college. Even Flacco. I mean he couldn't start at Pitt so he transferred to Delaware. Both of these guys ahead of Brohm?

toonsterwu
04-03-2008, 01:57 AM
By no means am I saying any one of the three is far ahead of the other. There does seem to be a growing push on Chad Henne, although this time last year, Trent Edwards was thought to be pushed forward. I think they are tightly bunched, which increases the chances one of them falls a bit (a la Trent Edwards, who some thought might've gone early 2nd). But, assuming that players are medically cleared (and Brohm has his own medical concerns), part of the value process is definitely the whole "projection" aspect, and in that respect, both Henne and Flacco potentially project better.

With Brohm, based off his play, there's enough questions as to whether or not he'd be able to hit the tough outs, the tough throws. It's somewhat unfair, as you are but limited to what you are asked to do, but it is a criticism. I've also heard some concerns about Brohm's mechanics being stiff.

Now, let me close on this. I don't dislike Brohm. In fact, I've noted before that I think he could be a better Trent Dilfer, meaning a potential starter throughout his career. I'm just lukewarm on Brohm's value.

Dam8610
04-03-2008, 03:59 AM
I'm pleasantly surprised at his TE rankings. I think Dustin Keller is going to be the best TE from this draft class (might be the homer in me, but he was an offensive force in college, and he has the speed to stretch the field as well as the size and strength to stay on it in running situations).

eaglesalltheway
04-03-2008, 06:36 AM
There is a lot I don't exactly agree with, but I do agree with his RB rankings. Something aobut McFadden just doesn't seem there for me. I have a weird bust "beep" going off on my radar. There is just something about him that doesn't seem right. I don't know what it is, but I just don't see McFadden being the player everyone expects him to be.

BaLLiN
04-03-2008, 06:52 AM
I dont agree that Talib is the #2 CB at all, he should be 5th if anything.

DonWoods33
04-03-2008, 07:17 AM
Pretty crazy to me that Henne has surpassed Brohm when he could barely stay healthy in college. Even Flacco. I mean he couldn't start at Pitt so he transferred to Delaware. Both of these guys ahead of Brohm?

All those guys rated ahead of a kid that tore up the best conference in college football the last two years? Don't quite get that. And you're right about Flacco how come no one brings up the fact that he wasn't good enough to beat out Tyler Palko? Who went undrafted last year?

eaglesalltheway
04-03-2008, 07:45 AM
All good points there, but its not about college as much anymore. They are prospects now...

VikesFan
04-03-2008, 10:16 AM
Why does he hate Brohm so much? #4 QB?

I find it funny that Brohm has a great workout, and all of the sudden he drops to #4. Could it be that he is just trying to protect his friend Matt Ryan. Brohm's stock should have gone up by his great workout and possibly even passed up Ryan, who only threw the basics in his workout. But now in comes Mike Mayock to save the day by dropping Brohm to 4.

cdub11
04-03-2008, 10:47 AM
glad to see jamaal charles getting some love

Addict
04-03-2008, 11:23 AM
Mayo's really skyrocketed... I doubt he'll be available in round two for my lions, unfortunately

BoltHype
04-03-2008, 01:56 PM
at least he has Dre Moore in his top 5 DTs!

toonsterwu
04-03-2008, 04:18 PM
I think Mayock updated his top 20 as well.

http://www.nfl.com/photo/photo-gallery?chronicleId=09000d5d8069a146

It's the whole photo thing, which is actually quite annoying.

In order: Ryan, C. Long, Dorsey, Gholston, J. Long, Ellis, Albert, Rivers, Mendenhall, McKelvin, McFadden, Harvey, Talib, Otah, DRC, Clady, Merling, Stewart, Williams, Mayo

holt_bruce81
04-03-2008, 04:25 PM
Why does he hate Brohm so much? #4 QB?

I don't know, I personally think Brohm is the best QB in this class.

SKim172
04-03-2008, 05:29 PM
Mayock is a BC homer. Through and through. His draft sleeper is Jamie Silva. The farther he pushes down Brohm, the once-leader of the QBs, the better Ryan looks.

I like Mayock, because I think he gives the best analysis. Even when I violently disagree with him, I still understand his reasoning. But Mayock is letting his bias show.

toonsterwu
04-03-2008, 07:10 PM
I don't understand why it's Mayock getting the brunt of Ryan bashing. Every major analyst has Ryan as the top QB. Okay, yes, I agree that he's probably letting positional consideration impact his overall ratings by putting Ryan first (top 5, I can buy, first, no). But Kiper has Ryan 4th, McShay has him 5th. I can't think of a single person that has Ryan out of the top 10. Casserly's article back as early as December indicated that Ryan was the clearcut top QB for most NFL teams. A lot of people, including myself, had Ryan as the top QB during the middle of last season, even though some of us, including myself, didn't love Ryan. It's not as if there isn't a valid case for Ryan's value, and that's the key, value, to be considered this highly. But that's beside the point.

That said, my only mild question is why Mayock is the one getting bashed on Ryan and not the other analysts. Furthermore, most people have Brohm in the same place as well, late first/early 2nd.

San Diego Chicken
04-03-2008, 07:22 PM
I don't understand why it's Mayock getting the brunt of Ryan bashing. Every major analyst has Ryan as the top QB. Okay, yes, I agree that he's probably letting positional consideration impact his overall ratings by putting Ryan first (top 5, I can buy, first, no). But Kiper has Ryan 4th, McShay has him 5th. I can't think of a single person that has Ryan out of the top 10. Casserly's article back as early as December indicated that Ryan was the clearcut top QB for most NFL teams. A lot of people, including myself, had Ryan as the top QB during the middle of last season, even though some of us, including myself, didn't love Ryan. It's not as if there isn't a valid case for Ryan's value, and that's the key, value, to be considered this highly. But that's beside the point.

That said, my only mild question is why Mayock is the one getting bashed on Ryan and not the other analysts. Furthermore, most people have Brohm in the same place as well, late first/early 2nd.



Well, it sounds like you answered your own question. He's the only one who has Ryan as his #1 overall prospect. That's a hard sell given that Ryan doesn't have elite tools.

toonsterwu
04-03-2008, 07:23 PM
I'll say what I've said before ... if you take positional considerations into draft value, which many teams do, I can see a case for Matt Ryan as the top value in this draft (in case some don't remember, I have Glenn Dorsey as the top value irrespective of position).

San Diego Chicken
04-03-2008, 07:31 PM
I'll say what I've said before ... if you take positional considerations into draft value, which many teams do, I can see a case for Matt Ryan as the top value in this draft (in case some don't remember, I have Glenn Dorsey as the top value irrespective of position).

Wouldn't that still assume that Ryan is an elite QB prospect along the lines of both Mannings, Palmer, Vick and others? I realize this draft isn't amazing at the top, but I think it has talent that is appreciably better than Ryan at the respective positions - like Jake Long, Dorsey and McFadden. I have a real tough time even considering the positional argument buying that Ryan is a better prospect than Jake Long.

toonsterwu
04-03-2008, 07:53 PM
I guess, this then routes back to a question on Ryan moreso than a question on Jake Long, as everyone that's on these boards can probably make the anti-Jake Long case.

So, the question becomes, what can't Ryan do? Not what he's done, but what can't he do long run? I haven't really heard anyone challenge his ability to make the intermediate throws. No one really challenges his mechanics (well, I have, there is a tiny hitch, but it's not a big issue, most QB prospects have mechanical issues out of college, ranging from being too good (too stiff) to a huge mess). The arguments mainly come down to his arm strength. There's some inconsistency on his deep throws, but a lot of QB prospects have inconsistencies on the deep throws. The arm strength is there to be a solid NFL QB. He doesn't have elite arm strength, but he has good arm strength.

So short of it is this - if you are taking positional considerations as a factor, what can't he do.

Just for full disclosure, I usually do tiers of 5, so I haven't really thought about order. But if I did have to order a top 5, with positional considerations as a factor, I think I would go

1. Glenn Dorsey - If healthy, the only elite talent in the draft. Ability to step and split makes him a potentially dominant interior pass rusher.
2. Chris Long - Again, the look is to value here. Everyone wants to say that he won't be a top pass rusher. It's odd, I'm not actually that high on Chris either. But after this offseason, where he's shown the top athletic ability, and after a strong year as a 2-gapping 3-4 end mainly, I think those arguments aren't valid from a value perspective.
3. Matt Ryan - Again, this is with positional considerations as a factor. He has flaws, but most of his flaws are correctable, and he has growth potential.
4. Jake Long - Tough call here. Had several routes to go, but Jake Long's solid. Might never be an elite LT, but he likely can be solid, and at worst, he's a top RT.
5. Darren McFadden - Talent level is too high. Certainly, some off-field concerns and some physical concerns, but the upside is too great.

Larry121283
04-04-2008, 07:08 PM
I am all about opinions and it isn't so much that I agree or disagree with them here, I just hate how this dude and others like him change their minds on the regular.

Like, he always talks about going back to "re-evaluate" some of these guys...well, what in the heck was he doing all throughout the season.

I had guys like Mayo above Conner (also have Lofton above him too), guys like Campbell up there, Tyrell Johnson as my #2 S and #1 SS for ages now.

I am just overly annoyed by the sheer number of changes all of the time here. JMO.

LonghornsLegend
04-04-2008, 07:55 PM
Im just surprised he has Finley out of his top 5, especially since he loves to "go to the film on guys" and explain why they are much better players then their numbers...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s34hdT7DFwg


When you watch him on tape he's as graceful of a TE as there is, moves well with the ball after the catch, and catches anything thrown near him...With his body size and athleticism he's going to surprise people his first year because he is going to be a huge factor in the passing game...If he came out his senior year he would be the #1 TE, and the potential he has is too much to have him ranked so low...He clocked a 4.6 on his pro day, and yes pro day times are always faster but thats a far cry from his combine time and you can watch his film to tell he plays extremely fast for a TE.

TheBuffaloBills
04-05-2008, 10:03 PM
He must still think Kelly's knees are shot if he has him ranked number 4. And Aqib the number 2 corner?

Geo
04-05-2008, 10:10 PM
Why are people surprised, Mayock has always changed his rankings around leading up to the Draft. He starts from his personal rankings to the rankings of what he's hearing around the league, and even then he'll probably say something different from what nfl.com says.

This is why we say don't put too much stock in the rankings so early.

I'm pleasantly surprised at his TE rankings. I think Dustin Keller is going to be the best TE from this draft class (might be the homer in me, but he was an offensive force in college, and he has the speed to stretch the field as well as the size and strength to stay on it in running situations).
Whoever drafts Keller, I hope they use him as a hybrid WR like the Colts use Dallas Clark, to get the most out of him.

UncleHulka
04-05-2008, 10:35 PM
I dont agree that Talib is the #2 CB at all, he should be 5th if anything.

His physical attributes compared to his competitors make him stand out. He has long arms and big hands which = ballhawk. Oh, and he's fast, too.

UncleHulka
04-05-2008, 10:42 PM
I don't know, I personally think Brohm is the best QB in this class.

Brohm's latest workouts has him moving back into the first round. Excellent accuracy combined with an above average arm make him franchise quality. His mobility was questioned, but a 4.6 time pretty much dispelled that, as well.

Geo
04-05-2008, 11:55 PM
Wouldn't that still assume that Ryan is an elite QB prospect along the lines of both Mannings, Palmer, Vick and others? I realize this draft isn't amazing at the top, but I think it has talent that is appreciably better than Ryan at the respective positions - like Jake Long, Dorsey and McFadden. I have a real tough time even considering the positional argument buying that Ryan is a better prospect than Jake Long.
Nevermind assuming, Mayock has said he's along those lines of a Peyton Manning, etcetera. I couldn't believe it that he said that (neither did Marshall Faulk) and still maintains that, but it seems he overhypes a quarterback every year. I wonder if it isn't motivated from on high, to help sell the Draft on NFLN.

He talked up Cutler like we couldn't believe, and while Cutler has been good, his constant propensity for mistakes and fading as the game wears on can't be overlooked. He kept Vanderbilt close in games but never won them, and we're seeing a lot of that in Denver really. Of course no one really talks about it, and quite frankly some people just choose to be blind and nonetheless swear up and down that Cutler is the hot **** (including some of our fellow NFLDC posters who I won't name). Credit where it's due, Cutler has been the best quarterback of the 2006 class, but much by default because of Leinart and Young being even worse, and Clemens and T-Jack not having done much (at least in Clemens case he only received some PT last season).

I wouldn't have taken Jamarcus Russell first overall myself, he had WAY too much of a bust factor for my tastes. For all the grief Brady Quinn got in big games, it was all so convenient how looked over Russell's own struggles in big games in his junior year were - Mayock one of the biggest culprits. Except for the bowl game against Notre Dame of course, which we know sucked on defense. And yet Mayock slurped him up, and even curled up like a fetus from his original criticism of questioning Russell's true desire (which we're seeing these days as he's huge). I'm still not sold on Russell, I think he's got huge bust potential.

I really like Mayock, but it seems he's got this annoying quirk when it comes to the top quarterback. He does this with his top prospect at every position really, he glosses over the negatives and highlights the positives, even if it's to the point of incorrectness. Boy, Chris Houston is a great man corner, isn't he?

To put Matt Ryan in the same sentence as Peyton, or even Eli Manning, is completely laughable I think. More like Joey Harrington imo, although hopefully for Ryan's sake he lands in a better situation with better talent so that he has more of a chance to succeed.

But again, I really like Mayock and think a great deal of him. He's deserved to have risen where he is, although to be honest I think he's let it all get to his head and has suffered for it. Hopefully he does a better job next year.

LonghornsLegend
04-06-2008, 12:07 AM
His physical attributes compared to his competitors make him stand out. He has long arms and big hands which = ballhawk. Oh, and he's fast, too.

His fundamentals are bad, he goes for the big play too much and will get burned easily by a WR who can run great routes...He is going to be fine vs bigger WR's, but if he's thrown in man to man situations he will struggle...He's more of a cover 2 corner to me then Cason is.

bearsfan_51
04-06-2008, 12:12 AM
I don't understand why it's Mayock getting the brunt of Ryan bashing. Every major analyst has Ryan as the top QB. Okay, yes, I agree that he's probably letting positional consideration impact his overall ratings by putting Ryan first (top 5, I can buy, first, no). But Kiper has Ryan 4th, McShay has him 5th. I can't think of a single person that has Ryan out of the top 10. Casserly's article back as early as December indicated that Ryan was the clearcut top QB for most NFL teams. A lot of people, including myself, had Ryan as the top QB during the middle of last season, even though some of us, including myself, didn't love Ryan. It's not as if there isn't a valid case for Ryan's value, and that's the key, value, to be considered this highly. But that's beside the point.

That said, my only mild question is why Mayock is the one getting bashed on Ryan and not the other analysts. Furthermore, most people have Brohm in the same place as well, late first/early 2nd.
Probably because Mayock is a condescending dickhole.

Michigan
04-06-2008, 12:13 AM
Pretty crazy to me that Henne has surpassed Brohm when he could barely stay healthy in college.

"Barely"? Henne started thirty-nine straight games to start his career. He did battle a shoulder injury throughout the latter part of his senior year, but I think "could have a lingering shoulder injury" is a much more accurate statement than "could barely stay healthy in college".

kwilk103
04-06-2008, 01:09 AM
Mayock is a BC homer. Through and through. His draft sleeper is Jamie Silva. The farther he pushes down Brohm, the once-leader of the QBs, the better Ryan looks.

I like Mayock, because I think he gives the best analysis. Even when I violently disagree with him, I still understand his reasoning. But Mayock is letting his bias show.

he went to bc

RaiderFan
04-06-2008, 01:59 AM
With all the Great Performances McFadden had Running Circles around the Dorsey and co. Mayock lost all credibility with me. At the time i was against the Raiders Picking McFadden........But after i saw that Phony azz Low light crap he made of McFadden, i instantly jumped on the McFadden wagon. I swear this guy Mayock is so biased towards character as opposed to talent.
Which i understand with Athletes like Pac-Man, Vick,Hall,Leaf all having Major character flaws. But to completly disregard what McFadden has done over the last 3 year is a phreakin joke........He is the best athlete, and football player in this draft by far. Anybody who bothers to argue with that isn't current on college football.

Mike Mayock is a bias idiot