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IowaJag
04-04-2008, 02:44 PM
After reading Scotts Hot/Cold list, I had several prospects mulling around my head regarding players who will be grossly over drafted due to need.
Unless I am mistaken, the only player who could be effectively used as a NT (outside of the top 10), is Rubin from Iowa State.
After his spectacular showing at his workouts (eye popping bench press), combined with the lack of NT's in this draft, could his stock propel him to the top/middle of round two?

Also, is there any speculation of any 4-3 teams switching to a 3-4 this year; which may increase the likelihood of this happening?

toonsterwu
04-04-2008, 03:01 PM
Rubin's been sitting as a 2nd/3rd round possibility for the last couple months. Early round 2 is probably a bit high, but mid-late round 2 is still a possibility.

eaglesalltheway
04-04-2008, 03:04 PM
^^^^Agreed.

LonghornsLegend
04-04-2008, 03:51 PM
I think both Red Bryant and Frank Okam have the size and ability to play 3-4 NT and be very effective, not sure if they are drafted there but I really like their fit as a true NT, Bryant is great vs the run and he needs to be double teamed, he could definately be a Kris Jenkins clone.

Solomon
04-04-2008, 04:01 PM
Does anybody else think Marcus Harrison might be an ideal NT canidate? He's got good size for the position (6 ft 3 inches, 317 lbs).

Here are some of Scott's positives on him:
"Can occupy multiple blockers...Stout at the point and does a terrific job against the run...Strong and powerful...Really understands leverage"

That seems like he fits the bill for an NT. However an "inconsistant motor" is labeled as one of his weaknesses. Nonetheless he seems to me like an intriguing possibility.

defensiveback23
04-04-2008, 04:03 PM
Not surprising because there is always a lack of NT's that truly project to a 3-4. It's arguably the hardest position to fill with a good player other than QB.

toonsterwu
04-04-2008, 04:24 PM
Does anybody else think Marcus Harrison might be an ideal NT canidate? He's got good size for the position (6 ft 3 inches, 317 lbs).

Here are some of Scott's positives on him:
"Can occupy multiple blockers...Stout at the point and does a terrific job against the run...Strong and powerful...Really understands leverage"

That seems like he fits the bill for an NT. However an "inconsistant motor" is labeled as one of his weaknesses. Nonetheless he seems to me like an intriguing possibility.

Yes, Harrison has been looked at by some as a zero. I would go so far as to say that, when Harrison is on, he may be the best NT prospect in the draft.

ChezPower4
04-04-2008, 04:47 PM
I really like Frank Okam and i think he would make a fine NT maybe another Casey Hampton...?

Pb&j
04-04-2008, 05:28 PM
Trevor Laws has very good potential as a nose tackle, people say he would be better off as a DE in a 3-4 like at Notre dame, but I see has as a nose tackle. He is 6'0" 310... kelly gregg anyone?

Abaddon
04-04-2008, 05:37 PM
34 NTs are rare regardless of class. It's a thankless job, it requires a ton of strength training and the ability to gain and maintain leverage against two people down after down. Casey Hampton gets paid the big bucks for a reason.

I think Rubin and Bryant can do it, but they'll have to really improve their stamina. Okam has no chance. He doesn't have it in him, IMO.

IowaJag
04-04-2008, 05:38 PM
I disagree. I dont see Laws as a NT...In any scheme in the NFL. He would get manhandled if his job was simply to hold his ground. He WOULD however be a great DT in a 4-3. When I watch Laws I see a very well rounded DT whose strength is getting up field and making the stop, not plugging the middle.

toonsterwu
04-04-2008, 05:39 PM
While Laws could be decent, it would be a waste of his abilities. his technical ability would allow him to be okay, but it would likely reduce his ability to consistently hold, push, and drive.

If we want to talk about someone in the Kelly Gregg mold, I would suggest Kurt Hout of Ferris State. Around 6'0" 290, Hout has a very good understanding of leverage and is quite stout. That said, like Gregg, Hout wouldn't work for every team.

Abaddon
04-04-2008, 05:43 PM
I disagree. I dont see Laws as a NT...In any scheme in the NFL. He would get manhandled if his job was simply to hold his ground. He WOULD however be a great DT in a 4-3. When I watch Laws I see a very well rounded DT whose strength is getting up field and making the stop, not plugging the middle.
What he said.

When a 34 end cracks the 100 tackle mark, it ain't because he ties up blockers. He's getting off his guy in a hurry and creating chaos. Dude's going to be fun to watch if he goes to a team who'll use him right.

619
04-04-2008, 05:49 PM
What he said.

When a 34 end cracks the 100 tackle mark, it ain't because he ties up blockers. He's getting off his guy in a hurry and creating chaos. Dude's going to be fun to watch if he goes to a team who'll use him right.

How often was that ND defense on the field anyways ..

Pb&j
04-04-2008, 05:59 PM
You have to remember though, this is against college level competition and the implementation of the 3-4 doesn't quite work out as well as it does in the pros... Chris Long played the 5 technique 3-4 DE at UVA, but he will most likely be drafted as an OLB.

toonsterwu
04-04-2008, 06:11 PM
Without a doubt, comparing college 3-4's to pro 3-4's is somewhat, say, green apples to red apples. Some distinct similarities, but also some very noticeable differences. That said, rarely does a person slide in. The role responsibilities all have similarities at both levels, and for a 2-gapping 3-4 end, even in an attacking form, to slide inside to a leveraging necessity is rare.

Now, that said, skillset is more important than what an individual did in college. As noted, Trevor Laws could probably be a decent 3-4 NT. He understands leverage and is technically sound. He's physically strong enough to hold his ground. That said, Laws may also be washed away. While size is overrated, you want your 3-4 nose to be able to force the 2nd guy. Otherwise, the interior of the defense is weakened. Yet, if you ask Laws to force the 2nd, then you end up neutering his abilities in many respects.

IowaJag
04-04-2008, 06:13 PM
You have to remember though, this is against college level competition and the implementation of the 3-4 doesn't quite work out as well as it does in the pros... Chris Long played the 5 technique 3-4 DE at UVA, but he will most likely be drafted as an OLB.

I do agree that 3-4 in college football is a totally different beast. There is a far greater % of teams who are "pass happy", and without THAT guy in a 3-4 linebacking scheme there is virtually no pass-rush. However, I dont think its fair to compare Long and Laws. Suggesting Long play at NT, let alone DT is absurd (not that anyone has, its apples to oranges).

IowaJag
04-04-2008, 06:19 PM
Without a doubt, comparing college 3-4's to pro 3-4's is somewhat, say, green apples to red apples. Some distinct similarities, but also some very noticeable differences. That said, rarely does a person slide in. The role responsibilities all have similarities at both levels, and for a 2-gapping 3-4 end, even in an attacking form, to slide inside to a leveraging necessity is rare.

Now, that said, skillset is more important than what an individual did in college. As noted, Trevor Laws could probably be a decent 3-4 NT. He understands leverage and is technically sound. He's physically strong enough to hold his ground. That said, Laws may also be washed away. While size is overrated, you want your 3-4 nose to be able to force the 2nd guy. Otherwise, the interior of the defense is weakened. Yet, if you ask Laws to force the 2nd, then you end up neutering his abilities in many respects.

Assuming Laws was drafted as a 3-4 NT...I strongly feel his best talent, getting into the backfield and creating havoc, would be a waste. A kind of player with that explosiveness off the ball in a 4-3 would be in the Stroud mold, but, in a 3-4, would be getting ran out of every play and end up near the ball.

IowaJag
04-04-2008, 06:19 PM
not end up near the ball****
my mistake.