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View Full Version : Some Draft Thoughts 4-5-08


keylime_5
04-05-2008, 01:10 PM
I really do believe that Atlanta will not take Matt Ryan and that regardless of what St.Louis does at #2 overall Matt Ryan won't be affected by it. Miami is gonna take one of the Longs. St.Louis will take probably either Chris Long or Glenn Dorsey. Atlanta will get Glenn Dorsey or Jake Long. Anyway it shakes out I dont see Atlanta picking Matt Ryan over those 2 guys and I think Chris Long is certainly a top 2 pick.

New England's pick is probably the hardest one to figure out in the top 10 except maybe Kansas City. But it's clear that KC probably wants a tackle or a Defensive tackle. New England has been pegged by a lot of people to take a DB, either McKelvin or Cromartie usually and maybe even Talib...and if not then they are pegged to take a tackle like Clady or Albert. Do not be surprised if New England takes Mike Jenkins whether by trading down in the teens or by staying at #7. I think they might like him more than the other 3 of the top 4 CBs this year and even though a lot people have Jenkins as the 3rd or 4th DB off the board in mocks, there's a fair chance he could be the first one taken.

And as far as the Chiefs are concerned, it looks like Sedrick Ellis, Ryan Clady, Jeff Otah, or even Branden Albert at this point. But I have serious doubts that they would reach for a tackle so I kinda lean towards believing they'll go Clady or Ellis, but it remains to be seen.

KCJ58
04-05-2008, 01:27 PM
St.Louis will take probably either Chris Long or Vernon Gholston.

I can dig it

Oaktown1981
04-05-2008, 01:37 PM
I think the top 3 will look like this..

Dolphins - Chris Long
Rams - Vernon Gholston
Falcons - Jake Long

No idea what Al will do he could draft McFadden, Dorsey, Ellis

KC could reach for an OT Clady or Otah or draft he best DL on their board.

If McFadden is on the board Jets will probably draft him.. If he isn't there another team who is hard to pick for.

proshoota25
04-05-2008, 01:41 PM
i really would not be surprised if mike jenkins was taken by the patriots. i really believe they will trade out of the pick. they can trade down into the 15-20 area and probably will be able to take their choice between jenkins or aquib talib. if they stay at seven, i think they would take a fallen vernon gholston or DRC

Addict
04-05-2008, 01:42 PM
While I think many falcons fans will be displeased, and Dorsey makes much, much more sense, I think Arthur Blank will choose to select a face for his franchise in Matt Ryan.

T-RICH49
04-05-2008, 01:54 PM
I would rather reach for Albert then Otah

LonghornsLegend
04-05-2008, 01:56 PM
While I think many falcons fans will be displeased, and Dorsey makes much, much more sense, I think Arthur Blank will choose to select a face for his franchise in Matt Ryan.

Dorsey could be the face of the franchise, Warren Sapp certainly was for the Bucs, Ray Lewis is for the Ravens, I dont think you need to take a qb when you want a face for the franchise.

Addict
04-05-2008, 01:56 PM
Dorsey could be the face of the franchise, Warren Sapp certainly was for the Bucs, Ray Lewis is for the Ravens, I dont think you need to take a qb when you want a face for the franchise.

Yeah but the falcons do need to 'replace' Vick.

bearsfan_51
04-05-2008, 01:58 PM
You really can't rule out Ryan to either the Falcons or the Chiefs because you have no idea what either front office thinks of said player.

I've already said I don't think he's an elite prospect, but there are some that do. Therefore, since it only takes one person to fall in love with the guy, he could get grabbed at either spot.

keylime_5
04-05-2008, 02:47 PM
I have heard that Atlanta and specificaly their GM Dimtrioff (forgive my abominable spelling) will not go for Ryan at #3. I could see KC taking Ryan but I don't think they're gonna give up on Croyle just yet and that they'll take a lineman of some sorts at 5. McFadden to Oakland is a sure thing I really do believe. Gholston is not gonna go as high as people are saying, probably 6th overall with a slim chance at 4th overall.

In terms of later in the draft I think that if Desean Jackson falls past pick 22 it will be because of his maryjane liability and not necessarily his size.

vidae
04-05-2008, 03:54 PM
I want to trade down to the 9th/10th pick and take Albert.

keylime_5
04-05-2008, 04:12 PM
It's very hard to get a trade in the top 10 picks since teams ask for so much to get another team to trade up and those teams rarely ever wanna give up a 2nd rounder and more to move up a couple spots in the top ten...but if Cincy and KC traded it would make sense since Ellis is Cincy's guy and Otah or Albert or Clady (probably otah) could be KC's. But I really wouldn't count on that trade happening.

Flyboy
04-05-2008, 04:35 PM
It's very hard to get a trade in the top 10 picks since teams ask for so much to get another team to trade up and those teams rarely ever wanna give up a 2nd rounder and more to move up a couple spots in the top ten...but if Cincy and KC traded it would make sense since Ellis is Cincy's guy and Otah or Albert or Clady (probably otah) could be KC's. But I really wouldn't count on that trade happening.

I see the Saints trading with New England or Baltimore before KC trading with Cincy.

Geo
04-05-2008, 05:01 PM
I think this is how I see the Top 15 personally, as of now:

1/ Miami - Jake Long. Parcells takes the sure thing who solidifies the offensive line, both for the running game and the young quarterback (be it John Beck, Josh McCown, or someone else).

2/ St. Louis - Chris Long. Long could play at RDE, LDE, and 3 tech DT imo, Haslett (who was doing a very underrated job with the defense by the end of last season) and the Rams will have fun using him.

3/ Atlanta - Glenn Dorsey. I buy it too that Dimitroff and Smith will carry the experiences of their previous franchises over and take the talented interior defensive lineman. Rod Coleman was a good player for the Falcons for a few years, but Dorsey can be better for a longer period of time.

4/ Oakland - Darren McFadden. Gholston doesn't make sense to me, Derrick Burgess has two very cheap years left on his deal that Al Davis won't get rid of, meanwhile McFadden is more valuable seeing 240 touches than Gholston is seeing occassional pass rushing duty for a team that couldn't stop the run last year. Perfect fit for McFadden, playing with vets who can catch and pass protect, and also a ZBS for the OL.

*Trade* - New England trades up with Kansas City, ahead of one of their division rivals in the Jets.

5/ New England f/ KC - Vernon Gholston. Nightmare scenario for the Jets, no Gholston or McFadden, don't think Belichick and Pioli aren't aware of that added benefit. I will not believe Belichick will take a corner this high unless I see it, meanwhile he has a huge need at pass-rushing outside linebacker - especially if he wants any chance of beating the Colts to get back to the Super Bowl. Gholston is perfect.

6/ NY Jets - Sedrick Ellis. Robertson is gone like the wind this offseason, it's just a matter of time to see if they can engineer a trade with one of the desperate for help teams like the Broncos or Bengals. The acquisition of Kris Jenkins is big, but the Jets can further improve the front three to help their entire defense, and drafting Ellis does that. Mangenius wishes the Patriots would let Vince Wilfork hit free agency, but they won't.

7/ Kansas City f/ NE (f/ SF) - Branden Albert. Eh, this seems really high ... but you figure Albert might have as much LT potential as any other prospect, he just didn't have the opportunity to show it at Virginia where he almost entirely played guard. Reminds me of Tony Ugoh with his athleticism and his measurables, I think he'll get it done at LT. If not, the Chiefs may land an All-Pro guard ... those guys are racking in 7 to 8M per these days, amazingly.

8/ Baltimore - Matt Ryan. Brady Quinn/Miami part duex? I would be surprised to see it, then again I certainly didn't think part one would happen.

9/ Cincinnati - Derrick Harvey. You wonder if, with their lack of scouting and the coaches having most of the responsibility, if they don't draft Ryan Clady without having the in-depth concerns other teams do. They need DE bad though, and Harvey is talented. The 07 NCG performance will stick in the coaches' minds, I think.

10/ New Orleans - Leodis McKelvin. I guess it's McKelvin, although to be honest, I really thought Jeff Otah here which is a surprise. Stinchcomb wasn't very good last season, at least for the first half from what I saw (I like to watch the Saints), and he might be the best value. I don't think corner is as valued for the Saints as outsiders think ...

*Trade* - Philadelphia trades Lito Sheppard to Buffalo, moving up in the process.

11/ Philadelphia f/ BUF - Jeff Otah. The run on tackles begins!

12/ Denver - Ryan Clady. I've always liked Chris Williams more personally, although a lot of that was watching Williams and really being impressed with his play, versus not seeing much of Clady. Clady raised concerns in interviews and workouts, but then you expect Shanny to make shoddy decisions that could blow up in his face. Still, I think it's a good move and drafting a LT is the best value here.

*Trade* Chicago "overpays" (think giving up a 5th or even a 4th rounder) to switch spots with Carolina to get Chris Williams.

13/ Chicago Bears f/ CAR - Chris Williams. Excellent pick for the Bears, Williams is better than he's given credit for imo. He'll man the left side for the future.

14/ Carolina Panthers f/ CHI - Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. I remember writing in my draft notes that corner was a more pressing situation for the Panthers than anyone was willing to admit, given the state of their current contracts/players (I also noted the Rams' Alex Barron having two years left on his rookie deal, which I brought up to NFLDC two months ago and now is oft-mentioned I see). Both Lucas and Gamble are likely playing their last seasons with the Panthers, leaving a very capable starter in Richard Marshall, but who else? Enter DRC, good value here I suppose given how overhyped he's been in the pre-draft process. Merling could very well be the other consideration.

15/ Detroit Lions - Rashard Mendenhall. A pick I've thought all along, I must admit. And nothing that has happened has changed my mind from it.

KCJ58
04-05-2008, 05:01 PM
I love it Geo

MidwayMonster31
04-05-2008, 05:02 PM
KC is in a very bad spot. Because Jake Long could be gone before the 5th pick. There are few prospects worth trading up to the 5th pick for. If Ryan is still there, people will be calling the Pats or the Jets before they call the Chiefs. The Bengals could trade up to get Ellis, but they would do that while anticipating a Saints trade up.

lordquas
04-05-2008, 05:08 PM
noooooo matt ryan for baltimore. dont forget about troy smith

BamaFalcon59
04-05-2008, 05:42 PM
It is a three man race for the Falcons, with the top two in my mind solidified. Jake Long and Glenn Dorsey are the top two guys, with Matt Ryan having to be number three. But who is at the top, I wonder...

SaintsMan
04-05-2008, 05:50 PM
I think this is how I see the Top 15 personally, as of now:

1/ Miami - Jake Long. Parcells takes the sure thing who solidifies the offensive line, both for the running game and the young quarterback (be it John Beck, Josh McCown, or someone else).

2/ St. Louis - Chris Long. Long could play at RDE, LDE, and 3 tech DT imo, Haslett (who was doing a very underrated job with the defense by the end of last season) and the Rams will have fun using him.

3/ Atlanta - Glenn Dorsey. I buy it too that Dimitroff and Smith will carry the experiences of their previous franchises over and take the talented interior defensive lineman. Rod Coleman was a good player for the Falcons for a few years, but Dorsey can be better for a longer period of time.

4/ Oakland - Darren McFadden. Gholston doesn't make sense to me, Derrick Burgess has two very cheap years left on his deal that Al Davis won't get rid of, meanwhile McFadden is more valuable seeing 240 touches than Gholston is seeing occassional pass rushing duty for a team that couldn't stop the run last year. Perfect fit for McFadden, playing with vets who can catch and pass protect, and also a ZBS for the OL.

*Trade* - New England trades up with Kansas City, ahead of one of their division rivals in the Jets.

5/ New England f/ KC - Vernon Gholston. Nightmare scenario for the Jets, no Gholston or McFadden, don't think Belichick and Pioli aren't aware of that added benefit. I will not believe Belichick will take a corner this high unless I see it, meanwhile he has a huge need at pass-rushing outside linebacker - especially if he wants any chance of beating the Colts to get back to the Super Bowl. Gholston is perfect.

6/ NY Jets - Sedrick Ellis. Robertson is gone like the wind this offseason, it's just a matter of time to see if they can engineer a trade with one of the desperate for help teams like the Broncos or Bengals. The acquisition of Kris Jenkins is big, but the Jets can further improve the front three to help their entire defense, and drafting Ellis does that. Mangenius wishes the Patriots would let Vince Wilfork hit free agency, but they won't.

7/ Kansas City f/ NE (f/ SF) - Branden Albert. Eh, this seems really high ... but you figure Albert might have as much LT potential as any other prospect, he just didn't have the opportunity to show it at Virginia where he almost entirely played guard. Reminds me of Tony Ugoh with his athleticism and his measurables, I think he'll get it done at LT. If not, the Chiefs may land an All-Pro guard ... those guys are racking in 7 to 8M per these days, amazingly.

8/ Baltimore - Matt Ryan. Brady Quinn/Miami part duex? I would be surprised to see it, then again I certainly didn't think part one would happen.

9/ Cincinnati - Derrick Harvey. You wonder if, with their lack of scouting and the coaches having most of the responsibility, if they don't draft Ryan Clady without having the in-depth concerns other teams do. They need DE bad though, and Harvey is talented. The 07 NCG performance will stick in the coaches' minds, I think.

10/ New Orleans - Leodis McKelvin. I guess it's McKelvin, although to be honest, I really thought Jeff Otah here which is a surprise. Stinchcomb wasn't very good last season, at least for the first half from what I saw (I like to watch the Saints), and he might be the best value. I don't think corner is as valued for the Saints as outsiders think ...

*Trade* - Philadelphia trades Lito Sheppard to Buffalo, moving up in the process.

11/ Philadelphia f/ BUF - Jeff Otah. The run on tackles begins!

12/ Denver - Ryan Clady. I've always liked Chris Williams more personally, although a lot of that was watching Williams and really being impressed with his play, versus not seeing much of Clady. Clady raised concerns in interviews and workouts, but then you expect Shanny to make shoddy decisions that could blow up in his face. Still, I think it's a good move and drafting a LT is the best value here.

*Trade* Chicago "overpays" (think giving up a 5th or even a 4th rounder) to switch spots with Carolina to get Chris Williams.

13/ Chicago Bears f/ CAR - Chris Williams. Excellent pick for the Bears, Williams is better than he's given credit for imo. He'll man the left side for the future.

14/ Carolina Panthers f/ CHI - Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. I remember writing in my draft notes that corner was a more pressing situation for the Panthers than anyone was willing to admit, given the state of their current contracts/players (I also noted the Rams' Alex Barron having two years left on his rookie deal, which I brought up to NFLDC two months ago and now is oft-mentioned I see). Both Lucas and Gamble are likely playing their last seasons with the Panthers, leaving a very capable starter in Richard Marshall, but who else? Enter DRC, good value here I suppose given how overhyped he's been in the pre-draft process. Merling could very well be the other consideration.

15/ Detroit Lions - Rashard Mendenhall. A pick I've thought all along, I must admit. And nothing that has happened has changed my mind from it.

Good pick for the Saints although I would rather DRC.

Flyboy
04-05-2008, 06:02 PM
10/ New Orleans - Leodis McKelvin. I guess it's McKelvin, although to be honest, I really thought Jeff Otah here which is a surprise. Stinchcomb wasn't very good last season, at least for the first half from what I saw (I like to watch the Saints), and he might be the best value. I don't think corner is as valued for the Saints as outsiders think ...

You're right, Geo. Stinchy was just horrid for most of last season and it showed. I do think that we're really high on Keith Rivers, though and he would probably be the pick here. Don't rule out Mendenhall either.

SaintsMan
04-05-2008, 06:10 PM
You're right, Geo. Stinchy was just horrid for most of last season and it showed. I do think that we're really high on Keith Rivers, though and he would probably be the pick here. Don't rule out Mendenhall either.

If we cut ties with Deuce, Mendenhall would make the most sense unless we go Corner or OL or Dorsey/Eliis falls, which they won't. A one-two punch of Rashard Mendenhall and Pierre Thomas, with Reggie Bush as a HB/WR hybrid would be deadly.

Flyboy
04-05-2008, 06:18 PM
I think our first priority is trying to trade up to land Ellis (I think Dorsey will go far too early to even attempt to trade that high). I'm thinking the Ravens or Patriots make the most sense in that regard. However, it that doesn't fall through I fully expect us to draft whoever we have graded out as the BPA. If we cut Deuce on April 15th, then I'd say we'd lean toward Mendenhall. However, I get a strong feeling that we're high on both USC guys in Ellis and Rivers.

keylime_5
04-05-2008, 06:22 PM
Decent chance of Ellis and Rivers being off the board at 10. I know New Orleans would rather have one of those guys and maybe even an offensive tackle more than a corner which is a position they have had bad and overpaid play from. I really don't think NewOrleans is gonna pick a RB in round one though. Maybe day one but definitely not round one, epecially in a draft his deep with that position. New Orleans should try to trade up to get Ellis b/c the next option if they stay is a huge dropoff from Sedrick.

vidae
04-05-2008, 06:24 PM
I like the trade and the pick. I am really high on Albert. I think he can come in from day one and play LT for us and do an amazing job at it. I wouldn't be upset at us taking him at 5 either. If Jake Long is gone, Albert is who I want us to target. I'm just glad you didn't give us Matt Ryan.

Flyboy
04-05-2008, 06:25 PM
I can't really see Rivers being off the board before ten. I mean, it's always a possibility but I just don't see a team selecting him there except maybe the Patriots.

proshoota25
04-05-2008, 07:22 PM
that would be a dream scenario geo but im not sure if the patriots are gunna pay gholston top 5 money to be a hybrid de/olb

keylime_5
04-05-2008, 07:28 PM
I can't really see Rivers being off the board before ten. I mean, it's always a possibility but I just don't see a team selecting him there except maybe the Patriots.

1-C.Long
2-Dorsey
3-J.Long
4-McFadden
5-Ellis (key to this scenario)
6-Gholston
7-McKelvin, DRC, Talib or Jenkins
8-Ryan
9-Rivers
10-?

That's what I had in mind, but I think something will definitely change in that top 10 between now and the end of the month.

keylime_5
04-05-2008, 07:29 PM
that would be a dream scenario geo but im not sure if the patriots are gunna pay gholston top 5 money to be a hybrid de/olb

I don't see why people think teams would have problems with paying top 5 money to premier pass rushers like Chris Long and Vernon Gholston. I doesn't really matter if they play Lawrence Taylor's position as opposed to Michael Strahan, a pass rusher is a pass rusher and they are the most sought after defensive players there are.

proshoota25
04-05-2008, 07:32 PM
I don't see why people think teams would have problems with paying top 5 money to premier pass rushers like Chris Long and Vernon Gholston. I doesn't really matter if they play Lawrence Taylor's position as opposed to Michael Strahan, a pass rusher is a pass rusher and they are the most sought after defensive players there are.

its not the fact that they wouldnt pay them, theyve just never been to keen on giving a huge contract to a rookie in a very difficult position in their scheme.

Geo
04-05-2008, 07:40 PM
I think the Patriots are aggressive enough to do it, and don't depend on the Draft as much as they did some years ago when Belichick and Pioli built the dynasty, so it's arguably better use to trade away a mid-round pick or two that won't stick on the roster if it means the difference between Gholston and Harvey for them. Besides, they'll probably find a way to trade down later and stockpile more picks.

swollja
04-05-2008, 08:00 PM
its not the fact that they wouldnt pay them, theyve just never been to keen on giving a huge contract to a rookie in a very difficult position in their scheme.

i always figured 3-4 olb was one of the easier positions to learn. it definitiely has the highest success rate out of guys switching to it from a different position.

it certainly takes a freak athlete to be great at it though

BlindSite
04-05-2008, 08:15 PM
I think this is how I see the Top 15 personally, as of now:

1/ Miami - Jake Long. Parcells takes the sure thing who solidifies the offensive line, both for the running game and the young quarterback (be it John Beck, Josh McCown, or someone else).

2/ St. Louis - Chris Long. Long could play at RDE, LDE, and 3 tech DT imo, Haslett (who was doing a very underrated job with the defense by the end of last season) and the Rams will have fun using him.

3/ Atlanta - Glenn Dorsey. I buy it too that Dimitroff and Smith will carry the experiences of their previous franchises over and take the talented interior defensive lineman. Rod Coleman was a good player for the Falcons for a few years, but Dorsey can be better for a longer period of time.

4/ Oakland - Darren McFadden. Gholston doesn't make sense to me, Derrick Burgess has two very cheap years left on his deal that Al Davis won't get rid of, meanwhile McFadden is more valuable seeing 240 touches than Gholston is seeing occassional pass rushing duty for a team that couldn't stop the run last year. Perfect fit for McFadden, playing with vets who can catch and pass protect, and also a ZBS for the OL.

*Trade* - New England trades up with Kansas City, ahead of one of their division rivals in the Jets.

5/ New England f/ KC - Vernon Gholston. Nightmare scenario for the Jets, no Gholston or McFadden, don't think Belichick and Pioli aren't aware of that added benefit. I will not believe Belichick will take a corner this high unless I see it, meanwhile he has a huge need at pass-rushing outside linebacker - especially if he wants any chance of beating the Colts to get back to the Super Bowl. Gholston is perfect.

6/ NY Jets - Sedrick Ellis. Robertson is gone like the wind this offseason, it's just a matter of time to see if they can engineer a trade with one of the desperate for help teams like the Broncos or Bengals. The acquisition of Kris Jenkins is big, but the Jets can further improve the front three to help their entire defense, and drafting Ellis does that. Mangenius wishes the Patriots would let Vince Wilfork hit free agency, but they won't.

7/ Kansas City f/ NE (f/ SF) - Branden Albert. Eh, this seems really high ... but you figure Albert might have as much LT potential as any other prospect, he just didn't have the opportunity to show it at Virginia where he almost entirely played guard. Reminds me of Tony Ugoh with his athleticism and his measurables, I think he'll get it done at LT. If not, the Chiefs may land an All-Pro guard ... those guys are racking in 7 to 8M per these days, amazingly.

8/ Baltimore - Matt Ryan. Brady Quinn/Miami part duex? I would be surprised to see it, then again I certainly didn't think part one would happen.

9/ Cincinnati - Derrick Harvey. You wonder if, with their lack of scouting and the coaches having most of the responsibility, if they don't draft Ryan Clady without having the in-depth concerns other teams do. They need DE bad though, and Harvey is talented. The 07 NCG performance will stick in the coaches' minds, I think.

10/ New Orleans - Leodis McKelvin. I guess it's McKelvin, although to be honest, I really thought Jeff Otah here which is a surprise. Stinchcomb wasn't very good last season, at least for the first half from what I saw (I like to watch the Saints), and he might be the best value. I don't think corner is as valued for the Saints as outsiders think ...

*Trade* - Philadelphia trades Lito Sheppard to Buffalo, moving up in the process.

11/ Philadelphia f/ BUF - Jeff Otah. The run on tackles begins!

12/ Denver - Ryan Clady. I've always liked Chris Williams more personally, although a lot of that was watching Williams and really being impressed with his play, versus not seeing much of Clady. Clady raised concerns in interviews and workouts, but then you expect Shanny to make shoddy decisions that could blow up in his face. Still, I think it's a good move and drafting a LT is the best value here.

*Trade* Chicago "overpays" (think giving up a 5th or even a 4th rounder) to switch spots with Carolina to get Chris Williams.

13/ Chicago Bears f/ CAR - Chris Williams. Excellent pick for the Bears, Williams is better than he's given credit for imo. He'll man the left side for the future.

14/ Carolina Panthers f/ CHI - Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. I remember writing in my draft notes that corner was a more pressing situation for the Panthers than anyone was willing to admit, given the state of their current contracts/players (I also noted the Rams' Alex Barron having two years left on his rookie deal, which I brought up to NFLDC two months ago and now is oft-mentioned I see). Both Lucas and Gamble are likely playing their last seasons with the Panthers, leaving a very capable starter in Richard Marshall, but who else? Enter DRC, good value here I suppose given how overhyped he's been in the pre-draft process. Merling could very well be the other consideration.

15/ Detroit Lions - Rashard Mendenhall. A pick I've thought all along, I must admit. And nothing that has happened has changed my mind from it.

Panthers have a bonafide top calibre tackle in Jordan Gross (gave up 1 sack, all of last year) solid interior but no Left Tackle. Either way you look at it, there's not 2 starting quality tackles on the roster.

You think we pass on Chris Williams for a pick we don't realistically need to miss out on the one cog our offensive line is missing to draft a cornerback we don't need.

Why wouldn't we wait till the second or third for a corner who we can develop. The team has Marshall and is likely to re-sign Gamble (who loves carolina). Why would we sacrifice our offensive line when the answer is right in front of us, to take a corner we won't need for another year or possibly ever.

Who Dat Nation
04-05-2008, 08:21 PM
Although I agree on no Matt Ryan for Atlanta at 3. I'd think they would have both Jake Long and Dorsey ahead of him on their board. What if Miami go J Long and STL pick Dorsey? I think it could force the QB pick.

I'm not so sure they as high on Chris Long and they did pick a DE last year in Anderson...

Would the Raiders select Chris Long over McFadden if he was available?

BlindSite
04-05-2008, 08:37 PM
I don't get the McFadden links to the Raiders

1. Justin Fargas
2. LaMont Jordan
3. Dominic Rhodes
4. Michael Bush

Do they really need to spend a first round pick on a guy who they'll have to pay a fortune to, will force them to essentially drop guys they spent to get and all the while their defensive and offensive lines will be in major trouble.

I still think that theres Long, Long, Dorsey and Gholston as the top 4 players, any one of them would help oakland immensely. At number 4 they're taking any one of those 4 that's still around imo.

Geo
04-05-2008, 08:54 PM
1. Everyone (except you apparently) knows that LaMont Jordan will be cut this offseason, the only question is when it will happen. It seems they will wait a while, after the Draft, to make sure he doesn't sign with the Chargers.

Fargas hasn't played one full season as the #1 back, he couldn't even stay healthy for all of last year when he won the job mid-season. Dom Rhodes has one year left on his current deal. He took a pay cut, so he's unlikely to be cut. Michael Bush hasn't played a single snap in the NFL.

2. The best weapon a young quarterback (Jamarcus Russell) can have is a strong running game.

3. They're spending a fortune on a player either way, McFadden does much more with a certain number of snaps than Gholston could for the next two years (the remaining number of years Burgess is signed).

4. They also spent a fortune on DT Tommy Kelly, to play 3 tech following the retirement of Warren Sapp.

5. And finally, most importantly, Al Davis makes the final decision.

BlindSite
04-05-2008, 09:05 PM
First of all, relax, you being wrong about the Panthers is no reason to get aggressive.

Second, until LaMont Jordan is cut, it isn't a definite, especially when it comes to the Raiders.

The duo of Rhodes and Fargas should be enough considering last year the Raiders ran pretty much the same two guys exclusively and still had the sixth overall rushing offense. Even if they cut LaMont its feasible they draft a guy slightly later on in the draft and get similar production.

They might have spent on Tommy Kelly but their front line is still pretty average.

Their starting defensive end opposite burgess had 30 tackles and one sack last year, and that's not as if it was a down year, he plain and simple sucks.

The Raiders are a mediocre team that last year did one thing well, Run the ball.

So you're of the opinion that rather than improving that unit with a late first day/early second day pick. They're going to improve it with their most important pick, over looking what many consider top tier talent in areas of needs?

I see your reasoning, but I think you fail to see the logic in my opinion.

Geo
04-05-2008, 09:19 PM
I don't disagree with your assessment of the Panthers' pick actually, DRC was more of a guess pick and a chance to shed light on Carolina's CB situation. Certainly there can be better than Wharton at LT, and Chris Williams (not sure how much the Panthers like him exactly, I'll guess they do) or another LT prospect would be a great pick for them in that vein.

Jordan will be cut, given the base salary he's due next year. He was already talking about playing somewhere else at the end of lastseason. It practically is a given.

Burgess hardly sucks, although you're entitled to your personal opinion, and the fact that he has a base salary at or around 3M per for the next two years can't be ignored.

And what I would personally do has no bearing on what I think the Raiders will do, those are two different things.

keylime_5
04-05-2008, 09:26 PM
It's not that Oakland really needs a RB, it's that McFadden grades out as the best player in the draft and Oakland is thirsty for an offensive playmaker. Fargas isn't so good to the point that they pass up on McFadden to take a guy who is not as good as Darren. Gholston makes sense b/c he's a need, but he's not really a top 5 pick even though this is a weak class while McFadden is the #1 player on most teams' boards (which doesn't mean necessarily that he would be the #1 pick if those teams had the top pick). The only guy I can foresee Oakland passing on DMc on is Chris Long.

BamaFalcon59
04-05-2008, 10:42 PM
I don't disagree with your assessment of the Panthers' pick actually, DRC was more of a guess pick and a chance to shed light on Carolina's CB situation. Certainly there can be better than Wharton at LT, and Chris Williams (not sure how much the Panthers like him exactly, I'll guess they do) or another LT prospect would be a great pick for them in that vein.

Jordan will be cut, given the base salary he's due next year. He was already talking about playing somewhere else at the end of lastseason. It practically is a given.

Burgess hardly sucks, although you're entitled to your personal opinion, and the fact that he has a base salary at or around 3M per for the next two years can't be ignored.

And what I would personally do has no bearing on what I think the Raiders will do, those are two different things.

He said opposite Burgess, not Burgess himself. Meaning the other starting defensive end.

Geo
04-05-2008, 11:34 PM
Ah, certainly that makes more sense! :D

Jay Richardson then. He is a promising guy, he sent Quentin Moses to the curb when final rosters had to be made and eventually he earned a starting role. Big guy too, could be very suited to LDE.

The Raiders did sign Kalimba Edwards also, hoping he'll serve as the pass rush specialist following the free agency departure of Clemons to the Eagles.

LonghornsLegend
04-05-2008, 11:42 PM
McFadden to the Raiders makes sense to me if Dorsey and Chris Long are off the board...When your bringing in a young qb having a great rushing attack or playmakers makes his job easier, although they still need line help they would have some guys(Walker, McFadden) who could really score on that side of the ball.

Geo
04-06-2008, 12:04 AM
I'd just like to reiterate that just because I think the Raiders would take McFadden at #4, doesn't mean that I would do the same. I wouldn't spend a Top 10 pick on him, and personally rank both Jon Stewart and Rashard Mendenhall ahead of him, to be perfectly honest.

I'm also completely not sold on his former teammate Felix Jones at all.

Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.

kmartin575
04-06-2008, 12:45 AM
Ah, certainly that makes more sense! :D

Jay Richardson then. He is a promising guy, he sent Quentin Moses to the curb when final rosters had to be made and eventually he earned a starting role. Big guy too, could be very suited to LDE.

The Raiders did sign Kalimba Edwards also, hoping he'll serve as the pass rush specialist following the free agency departure of Clemons to the Eagles.

1 sack last year doesn't sound very promising to me.

skatman
04-06-2008, 11:44 AM
I'd just like to reiterate that just because I think the Raiders would take McFadden at #4, doesn't mean that I would do the same. I wouldn't spend a Top 10 pick on him, and personally rank both Jon Stewart and Rashard Mendenhall ahead of him, to be perfectly honest.

I'm also completely not sold on his former teammate Felix Jones at all.

Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.

I think Gholston seems more likely.

keylime_5
04-06-2008, 11:46 AM
Oakland is very unlikely to take Gholston at #4, that pick looks like it's gonna be Darren McFadden or Chris Long should he fall there maybe.

lordquas
04-06-2008, 12:42 PM
didnt the raiders say they didnt want mcfadden?

Flyboy
04-06-2008, 01:16 PM
didnt the raiders say they didnt want mcfadden?

Smokescreen?

lordquas
04-06-2008, 01:22 PM
could be..

BlindSite
04-06-2008, 05:54 PM
I think the Raiders really are in love with Keith Rivers after the senior bowl and would rather trade down, I can't see anyone in the 7-10 range who'd be in major need of DeMac or Gholston.

619
04-06-2008, 06:38 PM
Linebacker isn't one of the Raiders top three needs.

BlindSite
04-06-2008, 07:54 PM
I know its not and I'm not saying it is their staff were in man love with Rivers at the senior bowl.

Geo
04-07-2008, 05:34 PM
Mayock thinks we could see 7-8 tight ends taken in the first three rounds of the Draft, where normally we see around 5 TEs and last year we saw 3.

Paranoidmoonduck
04-07-2008, 05:51 PM
didnt the raiders say they didnt want mcfadden?

edit: nevermind

kmartin575
04-08-2008, 02:08 AM
I think the Raiders really are in love with Keith Rivers after the senior bowl and would rather trade down, I can't see anyone in the 7-10 range who'd be in major need of DeMac or Gholston.

Isn't Rivers a WLB? That is what Thomas Howard plays so i see no reason they would take another weakside linebacker.

BlindSite
04-08-2008, 02:29 AM
I'm not saying they'll take him, I'm just saying they were in love with him at the probowl and for your info a player doesn't need to be massive to play SLB, Thomas Davis is smaller than most MLBs and does a brilliant job in Carolina.

kmartin575
04-08-2008, 02:57 AM
I'm not saying they'll take him, I'm just saying they were in love with him at the probowl and for your info a player doesn't need to be massive to play SLB, Thomas Davis is smaller than most MLBs and does a brilliant job in Carolina.

I didn't say it was just because of Rivers' size. WILL linebacker is simply the position most are projecting him as.

So Davis is doing a brilliant job? Haven't really heard much about him so I didn't know how he was doing. I sure was shocked that they took Davis over Derrick Johnson. Now both are playing SAM linebacker but I do believe Derrick Johnson is outplaying Davis.