PDA

View Full Version : Guys, I think I'm crossing to the dark side...


Joeyjr09
04-06-2008, 06:25 PM
Ok so I spent the weekend in Fort Myers hitting the beach and getting some sun. This let to alot of Dolphins talk and I've come away with some different thoughts.

Let me say that I still think Parcells is going to take Chris Long at number 1 overall. However, I'm really really starting to think that maybe Jake Long needs to be the pick. Here are my reasonings.

1.) I really hate Vernon Carey as our LT. As a matter of fact, I'm one of the few on here that thinks he really struggled for big stretches last season. He's Jonas Jennings at best and that's not what I want out of our OL. I'm not 100 percent convinced Long will be a Joe Thomas elite LT but he'll definately be much better Carey and althought I think Long will be closer to Matt Light, it's not out of the realm to think that he could have a Flozell Adams type career and if Tuna thinks that's the case, I can't argue there. Picking Jake will allow us to move Carey to RT which basically upgrades 2 positions with 1 pick.

2.) If we don't get Jake Long at number 1. We will have to take a OT at number 32. My problem with this? It severly limits what we can do as far as trading back for more picks as well as jumping on a guy that would potentially slip. We have too many problem areas that need addressing to pigeon hole ourselves with such a valuable selection. We need to keep our options open with that pick.

3.) I have a huge man crush on Joe Flacco and want him on this team. He has been my number 1 QB thru the entire process and the more I watch his tape the more I want him here with each day. I'm always arguing for us to take the best QB each and every year with Brady Quinn, Vince Young and Aaron Rodgers being my favorites the last 3 years. However, Joe Flacco's physical tools have me drooling and with some help I think he can be better then all of those listed above. We would need to keep that 32 pick open if we wanted Flacco and I think we need to add a QB in this draft as an insurance behind Back and McCown as both have had subpar careers to this point. QBs tend to hold value more then most so we could always deal him later if Beck works out but Flacco just has too much value to pass on. We could likely deal back about 5 spots in Round 2 get an extra late pick and still land Flacco. That's an option that I really feel we need to leave open.

4.) I really like some of the other 3-4 OLBs that will be there in round 2 and 3. Cliff Avril is by far my favorite and Purdue seems to produce good LBs. I'd love to land him in low round 2 and I think he can come in and start right away if JT is dealt but he can also play ST and learn for a year until JT is gone. I feel we need to add a 3-4 OLB in this draft but as deep as OT is, 3-4 OLB is also pretty deep in this draft. Avril, Thompson, Robertson, Gilberry and Ellis are all very solid guys that I would no mind having. I think Avril is a guy we have to target tho.

5.) Finally, As much as pass rush and LB was a problem last season. The easiest way for us to turn it around will be to build a top OL, get solid QB play and stop the run. Pass rush, Coverage and WRs can be addressed with later round developmental guys and hit on next year. The meat and potatoes of this draft needs to be OL, QB, NT and ILB. Guys that can establish the run, stop the run and run an efficient offense. We aren't gonna get this done by using an our 1st pick on an OLB pigeon holeing ourself in round 2 and leaving us to fill holes later in the draft instead of hitting on the BPA.

I love Chris Long and Vernon Gholston and they would be great for our team but I'm really starting to think that if Parcells is convinced that Jake can be a top LT then he is the right pick to make.

thebow305
04-07-2008, 02:20 AM
You do make a lot of great points here. I am starting to not hate the Jake Long pick as much as I used to as well. As long as the pick is either one of the Long boys or Gholson, I will be good on draft day.

One thing I don't understand about most of your arguments lately is the knock on Matt Light. Saying that Long will be closer to the production of Matt Light as opposed to Flozell Adams is really more of an apples & oranges comparison to me more than a knock on Light personally. Last time I checked, Light is a Pro Bowler, protecting the greatest QB in the game. He also still has a handful at least of great football in front of him. He has 2 Pro Bowl selections, while Flozell has 4, and Light is 3 years younger. He is one of the more underrated OT's in the game and in my opinion, one of the best blindside defenders left in the league. I don't know about you but I would be very pleased if Long turned out to be AT LEAST Matt Light.

Anyway, I disagree with the whole pigeonholing effect you believe selecting C Long or Gholston will do to us at #32. I think you are severely underestimating Parcells, Ireland, and Sparano's ability to rate players and evaluate good talent. I don't think we will be "pigeonholed" at ANY spot in the draft this year. They will have a general consensus of a handful of different players that they feel will be available at each of of spots, and if one is not, they will move on to the next. And if there is someone they feel they cannot do without, Parcells will be wheeling and dealing on draft day. Why? Because he can, and he's one of the best there is at it.

I think that if we don't take Jake Long (which, IMO, will be the case), we will be taking an OT a little later than most of you expect. Unless of top guys fall (Otah, Williams, Cherilus) I don't think you will see an OT drafted until at least the third round. I think you can eliminate guys like Anthony Collins and Carl Nicks right now. They seem like great fits for us, but are major headcases if you know their situations, and seem like guys that Parcells and co. will eliminate from our boards from the get-go. I'm not as big a fan of this OT class as most, and once you guy past the 1st round guys (Long, Clady, Otah, Williams, Cherilus) there just doesn't seem to be much value left. I think that when you heard Ireland talk about addressing out NEEDS later in the draft, this is exactly the situation you will see played out on draft day. Our OT situation will be addressed in the 3rd or 4th round IMO. Players like King Dunlap, Barry Richardson, Duane Brown, or possibly even Tony Hills seem like more viable options for us in 3rd-4th round range.

I know most of you PhinFans will cringe at the idea of waiting so long to address such a needed position as OT. But I believe with the great talent evaluators and developers we have on this team now, it will allow us to take a guy a little later and develop him into a star, rather than wasting a high draft pick on one that may not neccesarily be worth it.

Let's face it, Parcells and co. need to HIT on this draft and cannot afford to make any vital mistakes. They need players that they are sure of as football players. If there is ANY doubt in their mind that Jake will be the best pick, he will NOT be it. Mark my words. And it is for this reason exactly that I will be confident in whatever they do, because on the flipside, whoever they do take, we know they will be good. Or at least we will feel a little better about it than we have in the past.

Taking a guy like Dunlap in the 3rd (6'9", 310+ lbs) will give us the massive OT mauler type that Parcells and Sparano covet, at a cheaper price. This guy has all the potential in the world and I feel like Sparano is the exact guy we need to help him realize it. he could start on the Right Side until ready and let Vernon play out next season at LT, as Sparano has suggested. Then, move to the Left side in his second year and give us the great offensive line we have been looking for for a long time.

I see us going with Chris or Vernon at the top, Chris is the safe good pick, with Vernon being the potential-filled wildcard. Then taking one of the top-flight corners still available at #32 (Cason, King, Flowers, or Reggie Smith), then whichever QB is available between Brohm, Flacco, or Henne at #57, my guess is Henne. Dunlap in the 3rd. Then a TE like Kellen Davis or John Carlson in the 4th, then just fill the rest in with the meat. Ot's and Dt's.

Here's how I see it playing out (something like this):

1) Chris Long, OLB, Virginia
2a) Antoine Cason, CB, Arizona
2b) Chad Henne, QB, Michigan
3) King Dunlap, OT, Auburn
4) John Carlson, TE, Notre Dame
6a) Adrian Arrington, WR, Michigan
6b) Ezra Butler, ILB, Nevada
7a) Frank Morton, NT, Tulane
7b) Shawn Murphy, OG, Utah State

You can agree or not, it's just how I feel. Let me know what you think though.

BigBlueCrew56
04-07-2008, 07:40 AM
Ok so I spent the weekend in Fort Myers hitting the beach and getting some sun. This let to alot of Dolphins talk and I've come away with some different thoughts.

Let me say that I still think Parcells is going to take Chris Long at number 1 overall. However, I'm really really starting to think that maybe Jake Long needs to be the pick. Here are my reasonings.

1.) I really hate Vernon Carey as our LT. As a matter of fact, I'm one of the few on here that thinks he really struggled for big stretches last season. He's Jonas Jennings at best and that's not what I want out of our OL. I'm not 100 percent convinced Long will be a Joe Thomas elite LT but he'll definately be much better Carey and althought I think Long will be closer to Matt Light, it's not out of the realm to think that he could have a Flozell Adams type career and if Tuna thinks that's the case, I can't argue there. Picking Jake will allow us to move Carey to RT which basically upgrades 2 positions with 1 pick.

2.) If we don't get Jake Long at number 1. We will have to take a OT at number 32. My problem with this? It severly limits what we can do as far as trading back for more picks as well as jumping on a guy that would potentially slip. We have too many problem areas that need addressing to pigeon hole ourselves with such a valuable selection. We need to keep our options open with that pick.

3.) I have a huge man crush on Joe Flacco and want him on this team. He has been my number 1 QB thru the entire process and the more I watch his tape the more I want him here with each day. I'm always arguing for us to take the best QB each and every year with Brady Quinn, Vince Young and Aaron Rodgers being my favorites the last 3 years. However, Joe Flacco's physical tools have me drooling and with some help I think he can be better then all of those listed above. We would need to keep that 32 pick open if we wanted Flacco and I think we need to add a QB in this draft as an insurance behind Back and McCown as both have had subpar careers to this point. QBs tend to hold value more then most so we could always deal him later if Beck works out but Flacco just has too much value to pass on. We could likely deal back about 5 spots in Round 2 get an extra late pick and still land Flacco. That's an option that I really feel we need to leave open.

4.) I really like some of the other 3-4 OLBs that will be there in round 2 and 3. Cliff Avril is by far my favorite and Purdue seems to produce good LBs. I'd love to land him in low round 2 and I think he can come in and start right away if JT is dealt but he can also play ST and learn for a year until JT is gone. I feel we need to add a 3-4 OLB in this draft but as deep as OT is, 3-4 OLB is also pretty deep in this draft. Avril, Thompson, Robertson, Gilberry and Ellis are all very solid guys that I would no mind having. I think Avril is a guy we have to target tho.

5.) Finally, As much as pass rush and LB was a problem last season. The easiest way for us to turn it around will be to build a top OL, get solid QB play and stop the run. Pass rush, Coverage and WRs can be addressed with later round developmental guys and hit on next year. The meat and potatoes of this draft needs to be OL, QB, NT and ILB. Guys that can establish the run, stop the run and run an efficient offense. We aren't gonna get this done by using an our 1st pick on an OLB pigeon holeing ourself in round 2 and leaving us to fill holes later in the draft instead of hitting on the BPA.

I love Chris Long and Vernon Gholston and they would be great for our team but I'm really starting to think that if Parcells is convinced that Jake can be a top LT then he is the right pick to make.


Joey my man I think I just shed a tear reading that post. You have finally seen the light!!!!!!! I couldnt have written a better post myself. I share those same exact feelings as you do. Probably word for word down to Joe Flacco down to trading down from that #32.

I used to live in Fort Myers btw. I used to call it Fort Misery because vacationing and living there are two totally different things. Used to love hanging out by Sanibel Island. My girlfiend used to work at the resort so I was there often.

BigBlueCrew56
04-07-2008, 07:52 AM
I got this article from Phinsider. Thought you guys might be interested in taking peek.

JASON TAYLOR TRADE TALK UPDATE
You'll remember that about a month ago, I posted this story about the Jaguars being very interested in trading for Jason Taylor. Two weeks later, Armando Salguero (among others in the mainstream media) also hopped on the "JT to the Jags" bandwagon. Well, now another source of mine, a reliable one at that, told me over the weekend that he knows for sure that there is another team, along with Jacksonville, that is highly interested in trading for Taylor. The problem? He told me he "wasn't comfortable" telling me who this team was.

So all we're left with is knowing that the Jaguars and a "mystery team" are seriously considering making a move for Jason Taylor. But who might this unknown team actually be? I have no idea. The Vikings were reportedly interested in Taylor a month or so back, so it very well could be them. It also could be the Broncos, who reportedly are seeking help to their pass rush. But there are a couple of other teams that I want to throw out there. The first are the Bengals. After losing Justin Smith, Cincinnati could use a pass rusher like Taylor. And maybe making a move like this would convince Chad Johnson that they are indeed looking to better their team. Another team I want to throw out there are the Browns. They will likely be switching to a 3-4 defense following the addition of Shaun Rodgers and I could see them making a play for Taylor to play opposite of Kamerion Wimbley.

Regardless, the important thing here is that there apparently is another team in play besides the Jaguars for Taylor's services, if the Dolphins do decide to trade him. And that's good news for the Dolphins, as their return in a JT trade will certainly increase with at least two teams seeking his services.

MOSLEY BELIEVES CHRIS LONG WILL BE THE PICK
We all know that nobody really knows who the Dolphins will take #1 overall if they can't trade the pick. However, Matt Mosley does have some strong connections to the current Dolphin regime as he was formerly a beat writer covering the Cowboys. So that's why I will bring up the info that Mosley writes in regards to the Dolphins.

And who does he think the pick is?

I assure you that Sparano is making a strong argument for offensive tackle Jake Long, but Chris Long will be the guy. Bill Parcells loves kids who grew up in football households, and Long certainly fits that description. I'm told that he looked very natural during linebacker drills on his pro day. Honestly, I think the Dolphins would prefer to pass on the pick if they couldn't trade down, but it won't happen. Parcells thinks the money spent at the top of the draft is prohibitive.
Nut surprisingly, he thinks it will be Chris Long. But it's interesting that Mosley feels head coach Tony Sparano is indeed lobbying for the Fins to take Jake Long. But, really, I don't think Sparano's say will count for much in regards to the first pick. I much more inclined to think that Bill Parcells and Jeff Ireland will make the final decision. And, like Mosley, I too think Chris Long will be the pick.

Interesting tidbit, though, that Mosley tosses our way is below:


The good news is that I know pretty much everyone on the Dolphins' coaching staff. The bad news is they're not saying much. One of my favorite guys in the league, head coach Tony Sparano, surfaced for a few minutes at the league meetings, but he refused to announce the first pick.
Just between us, the Dolphins are about to plant a rumor that they're taking Ohio State linebacker Vernon Gholston. One of my pals in the mock drafting industry has already jumped on this rumor, but I'm steering clear for now.

It'll be interesting to see if Mosley's belief of a rumor being planted by the Dolphins does indeed pan out. If, in the next week or so, the media begins to believe that Gholston will be the pick, then I'll be much more inclined to believe that Mosley knows what he's talking about in terms of what Miami plans to do first overall. So keep your eyes and ears peeled for this rumor that may be circulating.

QUICK HITS
Here are a couple of quick nuggets to throw your way which may or may not impact the Dolphins:

-The same source who told me that there is another team involved in the Jason Taylor sweepstakes also tells me that the Fins have a workout planned with Aurburn DE Quentin Groves. Groves is a candidate to play either DE in a 4-3 defense or OLB in a 3-4 defense.

-Speaking of defenses, Matt Mosley does think that the Dolphins will definitely run a 3-4 defense next year and beyond.

-Sports Illustrated's Peter King writes in last week's issue of SI that "Teams hoping to draft Louisville's Brian Brohm early in the second round should rethink their plans. Two teams with late first round picks want to make Brohm the second QB taken." Any ideas who that might be? I'll take a guess and say one of those teams are the 49ers.

Thoughts on any of the above below...

Quagmire
04-07-2008, 09:51 AM
Ok so I spent the weekend in Fort Myers hitting the beach and getting some sun. This let to alot of Dolphins talk and I've come away with some different thoughts.

Let me say that I still think Parcells is going to take Chris Long at number 1 overall. However, I'm really really starting to think that maybe Jake Long needs to be the pick. Here are my reasonings.

1.) I really hate Vernon Carey as our LT. As a matter of fact, I'm one of the few on here that thinks he really struggled for big stretches last season. He's Jonas Jennings at best and that's not what I want out of our OL. I'm not 100 percent convinced Long will be a Joe Thomas elite LT but he'll definately be much better Carey and althought I think Long will be closer to Matt Light, it's not out of the realm to think that he could have a Flozell Adams type career and if Tuna thinks that's the case, I can't argue there. Picking Jake will allow us to move Carey to RT which basically upgrades 2 positions with 1 pick.

2.) If we don't get Jake Long at number 1. We will have to take a OT at number 32. My problem with this? It severly limits what we can do as far as trading back for more picks as well as jumping on a guy that would potentially slip. We have too many problem areas that need addressing to pigeon hole ourselves with such a valuable selection. We need to keep our options open with that pick.

3.) I have a huge man crush on Joe Flacco and want him on this team. He has been my number 1 QB thru the entire process and the more I watch his tape the more I want him here with each day. I'm always arguing for us to take the best QB each and every year with Brady Quinn, Vince Young and Aaron Rodgers being my favorites the last 3 years. However, Joe Flacco's physical tools have me drooling and with some help I think he can be better then all of those listed above. We would need to keep that 32 pick open if we wanted Flacco and I think we need to add a QB in this draft as an insurance behind Back and McCown as both have had subpar careers to this point. QBs tend to hold value more then most so we could always deal him later if Beck works out but Flacco just has too much value to pass on. We could likely deal back about 5 spots in Round 2 get an extra late pick and still land Flacco. That's an option that I really feel we need to leave open.

4.) I really like some of the other 3-4 OLBs that will be there in round 2 and 3. Cliff Avril is by far my favorite and Purdue seems to produce good LBs. I'd love to land him in low round 2 and I think he can come in and start right away if JT is dealt but he can also play ST and learn for a year until JT is gone. I feel we need to add a 3-4 OLB in this draft but as deep as OT is, 3-4 OLB is also pretty deep in this draft. Avril, Thompson, Robertson, Gilberry and Ellis are all very solid guys that I would no mind having. I think Avril is a guy we have to target tho.

5.) Finally, As much as pass rush and LB was a problem last season. The easiest way for us to turn it around will be to build a top OL, get solid QB play and stop the run. Pass rush, Coverage and WRs can be addressed with later round developmental guys and hit on next year. The meat and potatoes of this draft needs to be OL, QB, NT and ILB. Guys that can establish the run, stop the run and run an efficient offense. We aren't gonna get this done by using an our 1st pick on an OLB pigeon holeing ourself in round 2 and leaving us to fill holes later in the draft instead of hitting on the BPA.

I love Chris Long and Vernon Gholston and they would be great for our team but I'm really starting to think that if Parcells is convinced that Jake can be a top LT then he is the right pick to make.

Joe,

You ripped on Blue for a couple of months on this and now you switch? Blue made the same points you made with the OL and he was ridiculed for it. I think some people owe Blue an apology...:0)

Two other pts in your column that I can't see happening.

No way Avril is there in low round 2. Flacco will be gone by pick #32.

Avril will keep moving up because of all of the 3-4 hybrid teams and be no later than a mid 2.

I actually think there will be a run on QB's in late round 1 from teams moving up from round 2. (Especially if Matt Ryan does not end up in Baltimore) Teams like Chicago, Atlanta, Carolina & Baltimore are going want to jump teams like Miami and move up. Other than Balt, all of those teams have extra pks to do it as well. I can really see 4 QBS being gone by pk 32 if things break a certain way.... Call it a hunch...

BTW, my man crush in this draft is Quentin Groves. I would love to see him end up here especially if J Long is the #1 pk........ I see him being a star in a 3-4 system.......

BigBlueCrew56
04-07-2008, 10:00 AM
Joe,

You ripped on Blue for a couple of months on this and now you switch? Blue made the same points you made with the OL and he was ridiculed for it. I think some people owe Blue an apology...:0)

Two other pts in your column that I can't see happening.

No way Avril is there in low round 2. Flacco will be gone by pick #32.

Avril will keep moving up because of all of the 3-4 hybrid teams and be no later than a mid 2.

I actually think there will be a run on QB's in late round 1 from teams moving up from round 2. (Especially if Matt Ryan does not end up in Baltimore) Teams like Chicago, Atlanta, Carolina & Baltimore are going want to jump teams like Miami and move up. Other than Balt, all of those teams have extra pks to do it as well. I can really see 4 QBS being gone by pk 32 if things break a certain way.... Call it a hunch...

BTW, my man crush in this draft is Quentin Groves. I would love to see him end up here especially if J Long is the #1 pk........ I see him being a star in a 3-4 system.......


I think Quentin Groves is going to be the best pure 3-4 OLB in this draft. I just dont see him making it into the 2nd round but crazier things have happened. Joe Flacco will be there at #32. No doubt about it. If he isnt that means somebody really good just slipped.

Quagmire
04-07-2008, 10:21 AM
I think Quentin Groves is going to be the best pure 3-4 OLB in this draft. I just dont see him making it into the 2nd round but crazier things have happened. Joe Flacco will be there at #32. No doubt about it. If he isnt that means somebody really good just slipped.

Totally agree about Groves not being there. Just a dream on my part. He most likely goes top 20. I am with you, though. To me, only Gholston looks like a better player at that position than Groves (and that includes C Long) I still think Flacco ends up ahead of Miami's pick. I think he goes 4th among the QB's. I prefer Henne myself, but I don't think he is there either.... If Ryan drops to BAL at #8, then I think there will only be 3 QBs taken ahead of us and Flacco may be there........

BigBlueCrew56
04-07-2008, 10:55 AM
What could be very interesting on draft day is if Groves is on the board when Jacksonville picks and they decide to swap him for Jason Taylor.

Quagmire
04-07-2008, 11:06 AM
What could be very interesting on draft day is if Groves is on the board when Jacksonville picks and they decide to swap him for Jason Taylor.

Blue,

I would love that to be the case but I really think he goes before #26. I really wish the JT scenario was complete so we could know exactly what we have to play with on draft day.. Too many scenarios right now...

Joeyjr09
04-07-2008, 08:17 PM
Quagmire, do you really think 4 QBs are going in round 1?

I haven't done any reseach but off the top of my head I can only remember that happening once or twice in the last decade with one of those being the McNabb draft.

I love Flacco and wouldn't mind Henne or Brohm at all but serious, not all 3 are going in round 1. 1 of those guys maybe. Aaron Rodgers and Brady Quinn both dropped into the mid 20's and those guys were muc more highly regarded then Flacco, Henne or Brohm. There's always talk about QBs going high in the draft but lately, the QBs have been slipping on draft day.

No way all 4 are gone before our 32 overall pick. I find it unlikely that 2 are gone before that pick and I'll be utterly shocked if 3 of the 4 are gone before then. This is a pretty solid QB class. Teams are gonna wait for guys to fall to them rather then jump ahead to land a guy. Flacco, Brohm and Henne are all rated close enough that teams will wait for 1 to go before jumping up and getting their guy.

When it comes to QBs, teams more often then not trade up a get a QB then slips past their value. It's rare to see a team trade up to land a QB above what many consider him to be a good value at and a QB that is graded out evenly with a bunch of others to boot.

It just won't happen. (Oh and add the fact that Flacco didn't play at a D1 school, those guys just don't go 1st round)

Here's my thinking on what I was talking about above:

1-Jake Long, OT, Michigan
2a- Joe Flacco, QB, Delaware
2b- Erin Henderson, ILB, Maryland
3- Ahytba Rubin, NT, Iowa State
4- Darrell Robertson, OLB, Georgia Tech
6a-Robert Felton, OG, Arkansas
6b- Antwan Molden, CB, Eastern Kentucky
7a- Mario Urrutia, WR, Louisville
7b- Corey Clark, OT, Texas A&M

That gives us a starting OT plus depth inside at OG and a developmental OT. Building up our trenches on Offense.

We also add a NT behind Ferguson plus Henderson to plug the middle and help aid our very leaky run D.

Late round developmental guys at CB and WR. The Skill positions were we need to groom young talent while we try to build up our trenches where they need to be.

And we get a guy to groom at OLB who has a very good complete skill set behind JT and Joey for a year and we get the most physically gifted QB in the draft to boot.

This is along the lines of what I think could really help us. Built the DL and OL while adding a QB and OLB. That needs to be the meat of the draft. Late round fliers can be taken on WR, DB and TE. Those skill positions need to be on the back burner until we get our trenches in order. WR and CB will be able to do nothing for us as long as our big guys up front are getting beat game in and game out.

BigBlueCrew56
04-08-2008, 07:47 AM
Quagmire, do you really think 4 QBs are going in round 1?

I haven't done any reseach but off the top of my head I can only remember that happening once or twice in the last decade with one of those being the McNabb draft.

I love Flacco and wouldn't mind Henne or Brohm at all but serious, not all 3 are going in round 1. 1 of those guys maybe. Aaron Rodgers and Brady Quinn both dropped into the mid 20's and those guys were muc more highly regarded then Flacco, Henne or Brohm. There's always talk about QBs going high in the draft but lately, the QBs have been slipping on draft day.

No way all 4 are gone before our 32 overall pick. I find it unlikely that 2 are gone before that pick and I'll be utterly shocked if 3 of the 4 are gone before then. This is a pretty solid QB class. Teams are gonna wait for guys to fall to them rather then jump ahead to land a guy. Flacco, Brohm and Henne are all rated close enough that teams will wait for 1 to go before jumping up and getting their guy.

When it comes to QBs, teams more often then not trade up a get a QB then slips past their value. It's rare to see a team trade up to land a QB above what many consider him to be a good value at and a QB that is graded out evenly with a bunch of others to boot.

It just won't happen. (Oh and add the fact that Flacco didn't play at a D1 school, those guys just don't go 1st round)

Here's my thinking on what I was talking about above:

1-Jake Long, OT, Michigan
2a- Joe Flacco, QB, Delaware
2b- Erin Henderson, ILB, Maryland
3- Ahytba Rubin, NT, Iowa State
4- Darrell Robertson, OLB, Georgia Tech
6a-Robert Felton, OG, Arkansas
6b- Antwan Molden, CB, Eastern Kentucky
7a- Mario Urrutia, WR, Louisville
7b- Corey Clark, OT, Texas A&M

That gives us a starting OT plus depth inside at OG and a developmental OT. Building up our trenches on Offense.

We also add a NT behind Ferguson plus Henderson to plug the middle and help aid our very leaky run D.

Late round developmental guys at CB and WR. The Skill positions were we need to groom young talent while we try to build up our trenches where they need to be.

And we get a guy to groom at OLB who has a very good complete skill set behind JT and Joey for a year and we get the most physically gifted QB in the draft to boot.

This is along the lines of what I think could really help us. Built the DL and OL while adding a QB and OLB. That needs to be the meat of the draft. Late round fliers can be taken on WR, DB and TE. Those skill positions need to be on the back burner until we get our trenches in order. WR and CB will be able to do nothing for us as long as our big guys up front are getting beat game in and game out.

Joey is that really you posting??????? Nah No way...... Phenomenal Dolphins Mock. Henderson is the exact thumper we need in the 3-4 middle linebacking spot and crossing my fingers that toilet clogger Rubin will be there with the top pick in the third. I also agree that there is no way possible for me to envision 4 QB's going in the 1sr round. Teams in the back end of the 1st really just dont have a need for one.

Quagmire
04-08-2008, 08:17 AM
Quagmire, do you really think 4 QBs are going in round 1?

I haven't done any reseach but off the top of my head I can only remember that happening once or twice in the last decade with one of those being the McNabb draft.

I love Flacco and wouldn't mind Henne or Brohm at all but serious, not all 3 are going in round 1. 1 of those guys maybe. Aaron Rodgers and Brady Quinn both dropped into the mid 20's and those guys were muc more highly regarded then Flacco, Henne or Brohm. There's always talk about QBs going high in the draft but lately, the QBs have been slipping on draft day.

No way all 4 are gone before our 32 overall pick. I find it unlikely that 2 are gone before that pick and I'll be utterly shocked if 3 of the 4 are gone before then. This is a pretty solid QB class. Teams are gonna wait for guys to fall to them rather then jump ahead to land a guy. Flacco, Brohm and Henne are all rated close enough that teams will wait for 1 to go before jumping up and getting their guy.

When it comes to QBs, teams more often then not trade up a get a QB then slips past their value. It's rare to see a team trade up to land a QB above what many consider him to be a good value at and a QB that is graded out evenly with a bunch of others to boot.

It just won't happen. (Oh and add the fact that Flacco didn't play at a D1 school, those guys just don't go 1st round)

Here's my thinking on what I was talking about above:

1-Jake Long, OT, Michigan
2a- Joe Flacco, QB, Delaware
2b- Erin Henderson, ILB, Maryland
3- Ahytba Rubin, NT, Iowa State
4- Darrell Robertson, OLB, Georgia Tech
6a-Robert Felton, OG, Arkansas
6b- Antwan Molden, CB, Eastern Kentucky
7a- Mario Urrutia, WR, Louisville
7b- Corey Clark, OT, Texas A&M

That gives us a starting OT plus depth inside at OG and a developmental OT. Building up our trenches on Offense.

We also add a NT behind Ferguson plus Henderson to plug the middle and help aid our very leaky run D.

Late round developmental guys at CB and WR. The Skill positions were we need to groom young talent while we try to build up our trenches where they need to be.

And we get a guy to groom at OLB who has a very good complete skill set behind JT and Joey for a year and we get the most physically gifted QB in the draft to boot.

This is along the lines of what I think could really help us. Built the DL and OL while adding a QB and OLB. That needs to be the meat of the draft. Late round fliers can be taken on WR, DB and TE. Those skill positions need to be on the back burner until we get our trenches in order. WR and CB will be able to do nothing for us as long as our big guys up front are getting beat game in and game out.

Joe,

I'll stand by my prediction at this point. My thinking is that Ryan does not get by pick #8. Once he goes, you will have teams like Atlanta, Chicago, Carolina potentially coming back up to round 1 to get their guy. (Plus, all of them have extra early pks for ammo to move up) Add to it, teams like Tampa Bay, Minnesota and maybe even Green Bay who can take QB's. Plus, you always have that surprise possibility (ala Philly in early rd 2 last year) who can make an out of the box selection. If I am wrong, so be it, but I just have a hunch on this one....

I am a big fan of best player available this yr no matter what position. I do expect an emphasis on their style of player (big) but if a guy like Manningham is sitting there at the top of round 2, WR or not, I think you take him. Bottom line at this point is that we need big time players in a lot of places. Obviously, the perfect scenario is to fix needs as well, but I would not mind being very strong at one spot. If you told me to sign right now for Jake Long or Vernon Gholston at #1 and Mario Manningham at #32, I would do it... I think Manningham and Ginn could each be stars and would give us the best WR tandem we have had since Clayton and Duper.......

thebow305
04-08-2008, 10:26 AM
Joe,

I'll stand by my prediction at this point. My thinking is that Ryan does not get by pick #8. Once he goes, you will have teams like Atlanta, Chicago, Carolina potentially coming back up to round 1 to get their guy. (Plus, all of them have extra early pks for ammo to move up) Add to it, teams like Tampa Bay, Minnesota and maybe even Green Bay who can take QB's. Plus, you always have that surprise possibility (ala Philly in early rd 2 last year) who can make an out of the box selection. If I am wrong, so be it, but I just have a hunch on this one....

I am a big fan of best player available this yr no matter what position. I do expect an emphasis on their style of player (big) but if a guy like Manningham is sitting there at the top of round 2, WR or not, I think you take him. Bottom line at this point is that we need big time players in a lot of places. Obviously, the perfect scenario is to fix needs as well, but I would not mind being very strong at one spot. If you told me to sign right now for Jake Long or Vernon Gholston at #1 and Mario Manningham at #32, I would do it... I think Manningham and Ginn could each be stars and would give us the best WR tandem we have had since Clayton and Duper.......

Manningham is being taken off some team's boards now because of his positive marijuana tests at Michigan. I wouldn't be surprised if we were one of them

Joeyjr09
04-08-2008, 02:06 PM
Joe,

I'll stand by my prediction at this point. My thinking is that Ryan does not get by pick #8. Once he goes, you will have teams like Atlanta, Chicago, Carolina potentially coming back up to round 1 to get their guy. (Plus, all of them have extra early pks for ammo to move up) Add to it, teams like Tampa Bay, Minnesota and maybe even Green Bay who can take QB's. Plus, you always have that surprise possibility (ala Philly in early rd 2 last year) who can make an out of the box selection. If I am wrong, so be it, but I just have a hunch on this one....

I am a big fan of best player available this yr no matter what position. I do expect an emphasis on their style of player (big) but if a guy like Manningham is sitting there at the top of round 2, WR or not, I think you take him. Bottom line at this point is that we need big time players in a lot of places. Obviously, the perfect scenario is to fix needs as well, but I would not mind being very strong at one spot. If you told me to sign right now for Jake Long or Vernon Gholston at #1 and Mario Manningham at #32, I would do it... I think Manningham and Ginn could each be stars and would give us the best WR tandem we have had since Clayton and Duper.......

Manningham at 32 are you nuts? I'd be surprised if he went in the top 2 rounds after all his mess. 1st he tests very, very slow and he is a WR whose game is built on speed. 2nd, he tests positive for pot. 3rd, and what will likely be the biggest in Parcells eyes, he lies to all NFL coaches and scouts about his weed smoking, get caught and then has to send out a letter to every apologizing for lying. No way Parcells goes anywhere near that guy. I'd be surprised if he was even on our draft board at all. He's anti everything Parcells wants out of his players.

good to see you sticking by your prediction of 4 QBs in round 1 and this might sound harsh but I'm gonna go ahead and say it. No way your even close on that one. Multiple QBs will fall to number 32.

Quags come on man, your letting me down lately. 4 QBs in round 1? Manningham to Miami at number 32? Have you been living your a rock for the last month? Your better then this man.

Quagmire
04-08-2008, 03:45 PM
Manningham at 32 are you nuts? I'd be surprised if he went in the top 2 rounds after all his mess. 1st he tests very, very slow and he is a WR whose game is built on speed. 2nd, he tests positive for pot. 3rd, and what will likely be the biggest in Parcells eyes, he lies to all NFL coaches and scouts about his weed smoking, get caught and then has to send out a letter to every apologizing for lying. No way Parcells goes anywhere near that guy. I'd be surprised if he was even on our draft board at all. He's anti everything Parcells wants out of his players.

good to see you sticking by your prediction of 4 QBs in round 1 and this might sound harsh but I'm gonna go ahead and say it. No way your even close on that one. Multiple QBs will fall to number 32.

Quags come on man, your letting me down lately. 4 QBs in round 1? Manningham to Miami at number 32? Have you been living your a rock for the last month? Your better then this man.

Joe,

He tested great at his pro-day. Ran under 4.5, The guy was a big time, big play, big game WR. He has pretty good size. The off-field stuff is a big negative, I agree. However, if this guy did not have that question, he goes in top 15-20. It is about the character test. If someone sees it as an immature act and not a Chris Henry pattern problem, then I think he goes in early to mid rd 2. If they do their homework and see a problem, then I totally agree that I would not take him in that spot. But, don't be surprised if he goes in the early portion of rd 2 and becomes a big time player in this league.

As for the 4 QB's... I know I am on an island on this one. But, I am sticking to it. I just think there are a lot of teams with extra picks and a need to develop a young QB. I really see some trades in to rd 1 to get this done.. I know that it is not the popular opinion and after d-day, I will be on this BB acknowledging my mistake if it does not happen. But, if it does, I would hope the board would acknowledge an outside the box prediction......

Joeyjr09
04-08-2008, 04:22 PM
Joe,

He tested great at his pro-day. Ran under 4.5, The guy was a big time, big play, big game WR. He has pretty good size. The off-field stuff is a big negative, I agree. However, if this guy did not have that question, he goes in top 15-20. It is about the character test. If someone sees it as an immature act and not a Chris Henry pattern problem, then I think he goes in early to mid rd 2. If they do their homework and see a problem, then I totally agree that I would not take him in that spot. But, don't be surprised if he goes in the early portion of rd 2 and becomes a big time player in this league.

People always test better at their Pro Day then any other day. He ran horribly at the combine and for the most part, his workouts have been considered a let down from what people thought he would test, there's no debating that. He has lacked burst, size, speed and strength. I think after all is said and done he will be very low round 2 or very early round 3. Nothing sooner.

The big picture I was getting at was that he has no spot on the Dolphins. We already have on small WR in Ginn. Parcells like bigger more physical players and will want one opposite Ginn (Wilford is not the anwser long term). Parcells puts alot of stock in character and this kid has lied to everyone and has shown a knack for being very immature. He is basically the Anti Parcells pick. No way he ends up here. He goes against everything Parcells looks for in his players. He'd have to really take a huge slide for the Dolphins to consider him.

Quagmire
04-09-2008, 09:14 AM
People always test better at their Pro Day then any other day. He ran horribly at the combine and for the most part, his workouts have been considered a let down from what people thought he would test, there's no debating that. He has lacked burst, size, speed and strength. I think after all is said and done he will be very low round 2 or very early round 3. Nothing sooner.

The big picture I was getting at was that he has no spot on the Dolphins. We already have on small WR in Ginn. Parcells like bigger more physical players and will want one opposite Ginn (Wilford is not the anwser long term). Parcells puts alot of stock in character and this kid has lied to everyone and has shown a knack for being very immature. He is basically the Anti Parcells pick. No way he ends up here. He goes against everything Parcells looks for in his players. He'd have to really take a huge slide for the Dolphins to consider him.

Joe,

If a player has a bad combine, they can easily remedy it at their pro day. If there was no character issue with Manningham, I think teams would forget the combine and look at the pro day...

The player he has been compared to most is Chad Johnson. Now, the team has to determine if that is just in ability or attitude as well. If it is in attitude or character, then you obviously don't pick him. But, don't forget one thing about Parcells, he tends to look the other way if the player can have an impact on the field. (Lawrence Taylor). If it is in ability, you are talking about one of the better WR's in the game....

I would not necessarily call him small, either. He is over 6 ft and with an NFL weight program could be a very solidly built WR.

Again, in no way am I predicting Miami will take him, but I have to say that if I was in charge and did my homework on the guy, that he would be a big consideration if all came back OK. Now, if you are looking at him and Limas Sweed being available at that pick (just an example, don't think he will be there), then you definitely take the guy without any character questions....

BigBlueCrew56
04-09-2008, 12:42 PM
Take a look at this article I found today


• After meeting with Chris Long, Jake Long and Matt Ryan on their college campuses, the Dolphins are now focusing on prospects beyond the top pick. Although the team doesn't release names, we have identified several players (excluding the UM prospects) who are being brought to Davie for meetings with coaches and team executives. Purdue tight end Dustin Keller -- a converted receiver who caught 68 passes for 881 yards in '07 -- will visit next Tuesday, but many believe he will be drafted before Miami's first of two second-round picks.

The Dolphins, who are making linebacker a priority, are bringing in Auburn's Quentin Groves, a potential second-rounder with 26 career sacks, and UNLV's Beau Bell, a potential third-rounder. (FYI: Miami requested more tape of Georgia's Marcus Howard and has closely studied several potential second-round linebackers, including Oklahoma's Curtis Lofton, USC end/linebacker Lawrence Jackson, Purdue's Cliff Avril and Tennessee's Jerod Mayo, although none of those five was booked for visits.)

• The Dolphins scheduled at least two left tackles for visits, Nebraska's Carl Nicks (highly skilled, but character issues) and Virginia Tech's Duane Brown (a converted tight end who impressed at the combine).

• Others invited for Dolphins visits: California safety Thomas DeCoud (big-time hitter, but just one career interception), UTEP safety/cornerback Quintin Demps (had two 100-yard interception returns for touchdowns last season), BYU linebacker Kelly Poppinga (late-round overachiever type), Michigan State receiver Devin Thomas (a likely first-rounder) and Virginia Tech defensive tackle Kory Robertson.



I would be very pleased if we are able to snare OT Duane Brown in about the 4th round. I think he would be a nice rotational tackle and someday starter. Maybe an insurance policy just in case Carey bolts via free agency.

Quagmire
04-09-2008, 01:16 PM
Take a look at this article I found today


After meeting with Chris Long, Jake Long and Matt Ryan on their college campuses, the Dolphins are now focusing on prospects beyond the top pick. Although the team doesn't release names, we have identified several players (excluding the UM prospects) who are being brought to Davie for meetings with coaches and team executives. Purdue tight end Dustin Keller -- a converted receiver who caught 68 passes for 881 yards in '07 -- will visit next Tuesday, but many believe he will be drafted before Miami's first of two second-round picks.

The Dolphins, who are making linebacker a priority, are bringing in Auburn's Quentin Groves, a potential second-rounder with 26 career sacks, and UNLV's Beau Bell, a potential third-rounder. (FYI: Miami requested more tape of Georgia's Marcus Howard and has closely studied several potential second-round linebackers, including Oklahoma's Curtis Lofton, USC end/linebacker Lawrence Jackson, Purdue's Cliff Avril and Tennessee's Jerod Mayo, although none of those five was booked for visits.)

The Dolphins scheduled at least two left tackles for visits, Nebraska's Carl Nicks (highly skilled, but character issues) and Virginia Tech's Duane Brown (a converted tight end who impressed at the combine).

Others invited for Dolphins visits: California safety Thomas DeCoud (big-time hitter, but just one career interception), UTEP safety/cornerback Quintin Demps (had two 100-yard interception returns for touchdowns last season), BYU linebacker Kelly Poppinga (late-round overachiever type), Michigan State receiver Devin Thomas (a likely first-rounder) and Virginia Tech defensive tackle Kory Robertson.



I would be very pleased if we are able to snare OT Duane Brown in about the 4th round. I think he would be a nice rotational tackle and someday starter. Maybe an insurance policy just in case Carey bolts via free agency.

Blue,

I read the same article this morning. Interesting stuff.

Groves - Would be great, but I see no way he makes it to #32.
Bell - Perfect size/speed for ILB in Tuna's system.
Howard - Terrific pass rush potential in a 3-4 and from Georgia which I know is a school that Parcells like players from. (Heard that on a show once)
Lofton- Very good player, just not sure he fits the size that he likes at ILB.
Mayo - Ditto Lofton
Jackson - Typical 3-4 hybrid player though I am not a big fan.
Avril - Same as Jackson except that he is a little faster. Like him a little more.
Nicks - Fits the profile, but off the field???
Brown - Like him a lot. I really think he can be a quality LT in this league..... Would love to see him end up here (maybe rd 3)
Decoud - In the box safety prospect
Demps - Versatile DB prospect
Poppinga - Fits the size profile, depth and special team type.
D. Thomas - No chance he will be there at #32.
Robertson - DT also from a school that he knows and likes.
Johnson - Have never seen him, but his write-up and measurables are intriguing.
Allen - Same as Johnson.


I can't wait for the draft. All this speculation is killing me.....

Joeyjr09
04-09-2008, 05:54 PM
I would not necessarily call him small, either. He is over 6 ft and with an NFL weight program could be a very solidly built WR.

Come on Quags your killing me. Scott gets his numbers from when the guys do their heights and weights at the combine. He has Manningham at 5'11 and 3/4 and 181 pounds. Stop making up numbers, he's not over 6 feet and even if he gains 10 pounds in a weight program (which is highly doubtful as WRs generally do not put on anywhere near that much weight), he'll still only be in the 190 range.

He's a tad under 6 foot and weighs only 181 pounds. Ted Ginn is one of the NFLs smaller WRs and he was at 5'11 and 178 when he was drafted. Steve Smith who is also one of the leagues smaller WRs is 5'9 and 185 pounds.

How on earth do any of those numbers qualify Manningham as not small?