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View Full Version : martz says lions "weren't good"


jbombul
04-06-2008, 10:21 PM
http://49ers.com/pressbox/news_detail.php?PRKey=4124&section=PR%20News

“In Detroit we were not a good football team,” said Martz. “We were last in the NFL on defense and when you have to throw the football to win, that’s not a good thing. We weren’t good enough on the offensive line to protect him and throw the ball like we did. When I was with the Rams, we were. The number of hits on the quarterback when I was with the Rams near the end of my time there was about the middle of the pack. In the early goings, it was actually very low and we were ranked near the best in the league.”

martz is a crybaby who is trying to cover his own arse

Geo
04-06-2008, 10:35 PM
I don't think he said anything wrong, to be honest.

One thing of note was injuries to the offensive line in the two years Martz was in Detroit, which only increased the pressure and punishment Kitna took as can be imagined.

But I very much think the Lions are better now than they were two years ago when Martz arrived. There's a good chance in my mind that the Lions will regress offensively without him, I believe, but nonetheless better than before he arrived.

Marinelli is doing some good things, trying to change the culture. He's learning some things as a rookie head coach, and obviously Millen isn't the best GM for any franchise but he's getting better maybe (at least it seems like that, working with Marinelli), so it's not happening very quickly, but with enough time they might get it done. There are positive signs.

TacticaLion
04-06-2008, 10:50 PM
I'd rather have an offense that tries to run the ball than an offense that can hardly pass the ball, but constantly does it anyway.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
04-07-2008, 08:35 AM
Martz is full off $ hit regarding the Rams protection. They were not middle of the pack. They were terrible in pass protection because his system, though explosive gives up a ton of sacks. Towards the bottom of the league every year with a future HOFer in Orlando Pace.

The Lions defense was terrible in the second half of the season and the O-line needs improvement but losing Martz will help out in pass protection.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=teammisc&pos=def&league=nfl&season=2&year=2005

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=teammisc&pos=def&league=nfl&season=2&year=2004

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=teammisc&pos=def&league=nfl&season=2&year=2003

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=teammisc&pos=def&league=nfl&season=2&year=2002

Iamcanadian
04-07-2008, 09:12 AM
Martz was correct except I think he was generous in his assessment. Will we be better without him just like we were better without Mooch, I doubt it. This team was nothing under Millen's leadership and it will remain nothing until he is replaced, provided Ford can actually hire a competent GM which I also doubt.
Millen has never provided his HC's with strong enough personnel to make the team competitive and never will. He then places all the blame on his coaches for not producing a winner with the junk players he gave them. Will Marinelli turn this franchise around, no, because you cannot turn a franchise around when you are extremely lucky if you get 1 or 2 starters out of a draft every year. The Giants had 7 rookies make serious contriobutions to their successful year with a # of them starting. We might as well turn the draft off after our 2nd pick and how many of them did we have last year and how many are starting?
Martz did the best he could with the talent he was given as did Marinelli and it produced the highest win total in the Millen era. if anybody here really believes that changing coaches will create more wins, well, I have a bridge for sale, cheap.

Addict
04-07-2008, 09:21 AM
fair enough... He sais our team is bad and quite frankly I can't disagree with him. The Detroit Lions these days a perpetuum mobile of suckage. We suck, then we draft poorly, we keep sucking etc. etc. it seems endless.

P-L
04-07-2008, 09:52 AM
Martz is right. The Lions weren't good.

jbombul
04-07-2008, 09:54 AM
nice research maybe next year millen 2, i would give u + rep if it let me give you some! but i do agree, before martz, we gave up very few sacks but alot of that was based off the west coast offense of course. if we pound the run like colletto says he wants to, teams will have to respect that and will not be able to blitz as often as long as the run is successful. i also firmly believe that collettos passing game won't be nearly as complex as martz was, allowing quicker routes and thus the ball will be in kitnas hands less which will reduce the sack number as well

Maybe Next Year Millen2
04-07-2008, 10:16 AM
It was a tale of two season for the Lions. I give the defense just as much credit for our 7 wins as I do Martz's offense. In the first half, we were able to get a high number of turnovers and could somewhat stop the run. That is a big reason along with a good passing game is why we won 7 games.

As for the 9 losses, most of the time the offense was just as dreadful as the defense. The Redskin game, the Giant game, the second Minnesota game, the Charger game and the second Packer game and the first 3/4 of the Arizona game the offense was terrible. Execution had a lot to do with it but also playcalling was subpar. Reverse to McDonald,forcing the deep in route to Calvin(Martzs best play that every defense knows by now), lack of running altogether.

Martz can throw us under the bus. The 1-7 finish left everyone with a bitter taste, but he was part of the problem despite the explosiveness of our offense. Martz's philosophy is an extreme. We still may have a big problem next year with Colletto but we won't know until next year. I like his philosophy better at least even if he isn't an "offensive" genius.

Iamcanadian
04-08-2008, 12:45 AM
It was a tale of two season for the Lions. I give the defense just as much credit for our 7 wins as I do Martz's offense. In the first half, we were able to get a high number of turnovers and could somewhat stop the run. That is a big reason along with a good passing game is why we won 7 games.

As for the 9 losses, most of the time the offense was just as dreadful as the defense. The Redskin game, the Giant game, the second Minnesota game, the Charger game and the second Packer game and the first 3/4 of the Arizona game the offense was terrible. Execution had a lot to do with it but also playcalling was subpar. Reverse to McDonald,forcing the deep in route to Calvin(Martzs best play that every defense knows by now), lack of running altogether.

Martz can throw us under the bus. The 1-7 finish left everyone with a bitter taste, but he was part of the problem despite the explosiveness of our offense. Martz's philosophy is an extreme. We still may have a big problem next year with Colletto but we won't know until next year. I like his philosophy better at least even if he isn't an "offensive" genius.

It's really funny how you ignore the facts. Mooch was a successful HC in San Fran and Martz had a very solid HCing record with St. Louis, but when they both came to Detroit, we continued to lose. What is the common denominator, Matt Millen and the talent he provides his coaches to work with.
Martz didn't throw us under the bus, Matt Millen did it long before Martz ever got to Detroit.

Addict
04-08-2008, 03:13 AM
It's really funny how you ignore the facts. Mooch was a successful HC in San Fran and Martz had a very solid HCing record with St. Louis, but when they both came to Detroit, we continued to lose. What is the common denominator, Matt Millen and the talent he provides his coaches to work with.
Martz didn't throw us under the bus, Matt Millen did it long before Martz ever got to Detroit.

That's not fair to say he 'threw' us under the bus. I'd say he parked a doubledecker on our ass.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
04-08-2008, 08:37 AM
It's really funny how you ignore the facts. Mooch was a successful HC in San Fran and Martz had a very solid HCing record with St. Louis, but when they both came to Detroit, we continued to lose. What is the common denominator, Matt Millen and the talent he provides his coaches to work with.
Martz didn't throw us under the bus, Matt Millen did it long before Martz ever got to Detroit.

Just becasue they were successful elsewhere doesn't mean they know how to build a team. Mooch inhertied Steve Young thats ignoring a big fact right there and TO. What facts am I ignoring? I'm not saying Millen isn't at fault. I'm not saying Millen didn't give us crap players instead of talent. He gave us very crappy players. I'm saying Mooch most likely wanted those crap players and Millen gave Mooch what he wanted. As Millen has done for Marinelli. He's giving Marinelli what he wants. Coaching staff, which is usually decided by the head coach, countless Buccanneer players and pretty much everyone cut from the Millen/Mooch era. Theres a difference between obtaining talent and giving the coach what he wanted.Millen and Mooch/Marinelli think they are obtaining talent. But when its time to show on the field, it doesn't. Its as much fault as Moochs as Millen. Mooch can coach but with Harrington who was a good college QB, he was doomed to fail. Who better than Mooch to develop Joey. Yes Millen picked Joey but nobody knew what a colossal failure he would be.

3 Wrs to an offensive minded head coach is what Mooch wanted giving him every opportunity for the West Coast to work. Joey Harrington didn't pan out who was picked before Mooch under another offensie minded head coach in Morningwheg, what did Millen do for Mooch, signed Jeff Freaking Garcia.

wingboy2999
04-08-2008, 09:41 AM
That's not fair to say he 'threw' us under the bus. I'd say he parked a doubledecker on our ass.

A game of one upping eh?

I think Millen built a bus factory on top of our heads.

[/one upping]

DoWnThEfiElD
04-09-2008, 12:47 PM
What is funny about him saying this, is the fact that he isn't that good either. How terrible he is was just amplified by our lack of quality offensive personel.

TacticaLion
04-09-2008, 01:05 PM
Think about it: Martz is a great coach when he has great players playing for him.

I think that says it all...

Prowler
04-09-2008, 01:15 PM
http://49ers.com/pressbox/news_detail.php?PRKey=4124&section=PR%20News

“We weren’t good enough on the offensive line to protect him and throw the ball like we did. When I was with the Rams, we were. The number of hits on the quarterback when I was with the Rams near the end of my time there was about the middle of the pack. In the early goings, it was actually very low and we were ranked near the best in the league.”



then why the hell didn't he stop throwing the ball like that?

Maybe Next Year Millen2
04-09-2008, 02:18 PM
then why the hell didn't he stop throwing the ball like that?


Partly stubborness on his part, partly KJ injury on a day to day basis with his sore foot, partly because for some reason he didn't like Tatum Bell(pass protection, 1 fumble), Martz being a moron and not using Duckeet until late in the season or was Duckett hurt?, not trusting the run blocking even though when we did run block more than 20 times in a game our offense was much better and having 4 very good wide receivers and a QB that he trusts.

And as stated, Martz is full of crap for pass protection. Since 2002 at least, once the league figured out his offense, he has never had pass protection even with Orlando Pace. 40 plus sacks every year.

Iamcanadian
04-10-2008, 08:22 AM
Just becasue they were successful elsewhere doesn't mean they know how to build a team. Mooch inhertied Steve Young thats ignoring a big fact right there and TO. What facts am I ignoring? I'm not saying Millen isn't at fault. I'm not saying Millen didn't give us crap players instead of talent. He gave us very crappy players. I'm saying Mooch most likely wanted those crap players and Millen gave Mooch what he wanted. As Millen has done for Marinelli. He's giving Marinelli what he wants. Coaching staff, which is usually decided by the head coach, countless Buccanneer players and pretty much everyone cut from the Millen/Mooch era. Theres a difference between obtaining talent and giving the coach what he wanted.Millen and Mooch/Marinelli think they are obtaining talent. But when its time to show on the field, it doesn't. Its as much fault as Moochs as Millen. Mooch can coach but with Harrington who was a good college QB, he was doomed to fail. Who better than Mooch to develop Joey. Yes Millen picked Joey but nobody knew what a colossal failure he would be.

3 Wrs to an offensive minded head coach is what Mooch wanted giving him every opportunity for the West Coast to work. Joey Harrington didn't pan out who was picked before Mooch under another offensie minded head coach in Morningwheg, what did Millen do for Mooch, signed Jeff Freaking Garcia.

Sorry, but I completely disagree. I don't believe for a second that Mooch had any say in who Millen drafted, that was all Millen. As for Marinelli, Millen hung him out to dry last year at the draft table, he was HC in name only and Millen chose to listen far more to Martz than he ever did to Marinelli.
Yes, finally in his 3rd year, Marinelli is being allowed to hire which coaches he wants, most HC's get that authority in their 1st year but Millen just wasn't prepared to risk his career on Marinelli's decisions and he still isn't. Martz was defacto, the HC for offense and Marinelli was HC for defense. We were the only team in the NFL using this absurd system.
As for Mooch signing Garcia who by the way led Tampa Bay to the playoffs last year, unfortunately he was injured for the whole season in Detroit and when he did play, he was basically playing on 1 foot which for a mobile QB like Garcias, is very difficult. Millen does allow his HC's or OC's in the case of Martz to sign players who played for them before. By the way Mooch had Garcia as his starting QB in San Fran for most of his stay there when he compliled a winning record.
Millen just loves it when the fans blame the coaches for the team's failure because he never has to account for the rotten talent he has consistantly provided them. Even BB couldn't produce a winner under Millen, it is just a complete impossibility. Yes, blame Morningwheg, blame Mooch, and blame Martz, Millen is just doing as they all asked and it is their failures that have ruined this team. Millen is blameless, ah, those stupid HC's, it's all their fault.
You'll being saying for the next decade, 'maybe next year, Millen', yeah dream on.

Addict
04-10-2008, 10:02 AM
A game of one upping eh?

I think Millen built a bus factory on top of our heads.

[/one upping]

you're in for it now...

Millen moved the franchise to Public Transport planet where the made us live under a bus scrap yard and then sold us to Jerome Bettis.

[/one upping]

Maybe Next Year Millen2
04-10-2008, 10:54 AM
Sorry, but I completely disagree. I don't believe for a second that Mooch had any say in who Millen drafted, that was all Millen. As for Marinelli, Millen hung him out to dry last year at the draft table, he was HC in name only and Millen chose to listen far more to Martz than he ever did to Marinelli.

Why did Mooch not have any say? Just because they failed you assume that because of the Lions record. I'm not saying Mooch made the decision by himself. I'm saying BOTH, Mooch and Millen made the decision. 3 OFFENSIVE PLAYERS BUILT FOR THE WEST COAST OFFENSE. Matt Millen is a former LINEBACKER. He agrees more with Marinellis style than other coach we have had. That makes me believe, Mooch has some serious influence in the drafting of 3 Wrs and a RB and then going Defense in Round 2 as opposed to Millen just having some weird WR fetish.


Yes, finally in his 3rd year, Marinelli is being allowed to hire which coaches he wants, most HC's get that authority in their 1st year but Millen just wasn't prepared to risk his career on Marinelli's decisions and he still isn't. Martz was defacto, the HC for offense and Marinelli was HC for defense. We were the only team in the NFL using this absurd system.

Yes Millen hired Martz. But Marinelli obviously agreed to it since Martz had a great resume coming from St Louis and Marinelli really doesn't know much about offense. And Marinelli makes all decisions on challenges/4th downs etc. However, we brought in Colletto and now he is the OC. Colletto is a Marinelli guy who was brought in last offseason not this year. We brought in Kippy Brown and he has been given a sort of promotion. Marinelli must have some say and must like these guys enough to keep them around. They are on the same page as Marinelli. Just because Martz is some egotistical whack job, doesn't mean that in offseason 2006 it wasn't a good hire to get Martz. And I would hardly call Calvin Johnson leaving Marinelli out to dry. You ignore Ernie Sims/Bullocks/Ikaika/Alexander but focus on Calvin Johnson/Stanton. Calvin Johnson was BPA by far at the time on draft day. And as for the Defense, Marinelli has had total control in who to bring in as coaches along with Colletto and Kippy Brown

As for Mooch signing Garcia who by the way led Tampa Bay to the playoffs last year, unfortunately he was injured for the whole season in Detroit and when he did play, he was basically playing on 1 foot which for a mobile QB like Garcias, is very difficult. Millen does allow his HC's or OC's in the case of Martz to sign players who played for them before. By the way Mooch had Garcia as his starting QB in San Fran for most of his stay there when he compliled a winning record.

I suppose its Millen fault Garcia got injured. The fact that he signed Garcia for Mooch, injury aside shows that Mariucci had some say on what guys to bring in to the team. If he had a say in free agency, and we bring in 4 offensive players in Round 1, that tends to sway to the side of Mooch having some sort of say in the draft as well. Just because they failed doesn't mean its just Millen making the decision. And Young played for 2 successful years with Mooch, Garcia played for 4 seasons under Mariucci with 2 good seasons and 2 bad seasons (4-12, 6-10).


Millen just loves it when the fans blame the coaches for the team's failure because he never has to account for the rotten talent he has consistantly provided them. Even BB couldn't produce a winner under Millen, it is just a complete impossibility. Yes, blame Morningwheg, blame Mooch, and blame Martz, Millen is just doing as they all asked and it is their failures that have ruined this team. Millen is blameless, ah, those stupid HC's, it's all their fault.
You'll being saying for the next decade, 'maybe next year, Millen', yeah dream on.

Again I'm not saying Millen didn't have a say or its not Millens fault. He is very responsible for the talent we brought in too. There are 3 scenarios that are all bad. 1)If Mooch was telling Millen what to do that is bad because Millen is incompetent and can't make a decision himself so he's a bad GM and should be fired. 2)If it was Mooch/Millen making the decisions(most likely scenario) both of them can't draft talent. Mooch was fired in San Fran after a 10-6 season because of a rift with the GM who was picking defensive players Carter,Julian Peterson. Maybe coming to Detroit, Mooch was allowed more say because of an inexperienced GM. 3) Millen made all the decision and Mooch did nothing. Wouldn't you think we would have picked defense with a former LB. Joey did need weapons badly so Rogers/Williams can be justified. Plus we really needed a RB. The only other options besides KJ were Julius Jones and Tatum Bell. Maybe the reason Millen wasn't fired is because Mooch had a ton of influence. All signs point to Mariucci having significant influence based on the offensive players we took, Millen somehow survived being GM, Mooch wanted more say, Millen was inexperienced.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
04-10-2008, 11:54 AM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/news/2003/0115/1493146.html

Mooch gets fired because of this but then turns around and takes a job where he has no control in Detroit. That doesn't make sense. Mooch had influence.