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bitonti
04-08-2008, 11:12 AM
Buyer Beware on defensive end

Ohio States Vernon Gholston is considered a high-riser in the NFL Draft. Scouts have fallen in love with his potential, overlooking, perhaps, some inconsistencies from his college career.

Hes top seven at worst, ESPN draft guru Mel Kiper Jr., said.

New England, picking seventh, could be his final destination. In the 3-4 front, Gholston could be used as a linebacker.

But not all have him up there, however. At least one AFC team gave him a second-round grade, even talking about dropping him to the third round.

Id be terrified if I took him in the first round, one scout said. Hes chiseled, he runs like the wind and hes not dumb. But if you look on film, he has three great games and the rest of the season hes watching the game.

http://www.examiner.com/a-1326675~Where_the_buck_stops.html


most believe this guy to be a slam dunk player but has everyone forgotten his weaknesses?

MURPHMAN
04-08-2008, 11:19 AM
Taking plays off or disappearing in a few games has been a knock on some elite DE's going into the draft over the years.

Peppers had that knock against him coming out of college.

I doubt his stock takes much of hit from it. NE would love to have him.

Shane P. Hallam
04-08-2008, 11:28 AM
Gholston will excel in the right place. He usually got pressure on the QB, even when he didn't sack him. I don't see where he is getting these claims.

lordquas
04-08-2008, 11:35 AM
like i said before and will say again and again and again

quentin groves > vernon gholston

eaglesalltheway
04-08-2008, 11:39 AM
I actually have not been a big supporter of Vernon Gholston, and think there is a big gap between him and Long, though I don't know if I would say a second or third round grade, but he seems like a late first guy to me, but wh knows.

draftguru151
04-08-2008, 11:45 AM
I think he's a tad overrated. I think he's a top 10 talent but the #1 talk is a bit ridiculous and he definitely has some things that worry me. The inconsistent motor has been mentioned but he's also really underdeveloped as a pass rusher. A lot of people like him because of the potential that he has, but the lack of pass rush moves is a bit worrisome to me.

ChezPower4
04-08-2008, 12:04 PM
I think the guy is gonna be a stud. I think he will fare even better in the NFL if he goes to a 3-4 team. Gholston IMO has the most upside of anyone in the draft and he is already a great player and has alot room to get better such as his effort on every play. As far as those scouts saying he's a second or third round pick, I don't buy that for one second to me it's just a smoke screen.

Pb&j
04-08-2008, 12:18 PM
I don't see him being that effective as a 3-4 backer. I do think he can play it, but his agility and times for linebacker drills are right on the edge of the ability to play linebacker in the nfl. 3-4 linebackers do much more than just rush the passer... can he hold contain against the run? Can he drop back into a zone? Cover a TE? Cover a back out into the flat? His hips are too stiff in my opinion to be an elite outside linebacker. I think his best bet is RDE in a 4-3.

Shiver
04-08-2008, 12:32 PM
I don't, and never did, see why people were so high on Vernon Gholston. I don't see what he has done to vault himself ahead of players like Kamerion Wimbley, Shawne Merriman, DeMarcus Ware, etc., all of whom were players drafted in the 10-20 range, not in the top-5.

eaglesalltheway
04-08-2008, 12:39 PM
I don't, and never did, see why people were so high on Vernon Gholston. I don't see what he has done to vault himself ahead of players like Kamerion Wimbley, Shawne Merriman, DeMarcus Ware, etc., all of whom were players drafted in the 10-20 range, not in the top-5.

That is part of the reason why I have him as a late first rounder, though you can't solely judge this year off of another, becuase talent pool is completely different every year.

Shiver
04-08-2008, 12:50 PM
That is part of the reason why I have him as a late first rounder, though you can't solely judge this year off of another, becuase talent pool is completely different every year.

It isn't as if 2005 was such a strong class that Merriman and Ware couldn't crack the top-10..

toonsterwu
04-08-2008, 01:04 PM
Is he overrated in respect to this year? I'd guess no, but then again, I feel like this is a really weak top of the draft in general. I don't think he's top 5 this year, grade wise, but folks that have him 6-10, I can buy that. It's really not a great year at the top.

Is he overrated in general? I've long been of the opinion yes. I still think he would be a better 4-3 end than 3-4 OLB, but I don't think he grades out as well as, say, Gaines Adams from last year. As a 3-4 OLB, I still have my concerns about him in space.

SenorGato
04-08-2008, 01:05 PM
Taking plays off or disappearing in a few games has been a knock on some elite DE's going into the draft over the years.

Peppers had that knock against him coming out of college.

I doubt his stock takes much of hit from it. NE would love to have him.

Not to mention that this scout sounds like the only thing that matters to him was multi-sack games...elite DL-men always get this knock because it seems everybody expects a play to remember them by week after week...that doesn't happen though.

Besides for that, I agree with everything Toonster said. I worry about his ability to play in space, though I think he has the ability/potential to become a bit less stiff in the lower body than he currently is. He *could* be a very good pass rusher for a Wade Phillips type 3-4 right away though, but Chris Long passed him as the best 3-4 OLB prospect after his combine.

thebow305
04-08-2008, 01:57 PM
This thread is blasphemous!!

Paranoidmoonduck
04-08-2008, 02:37 PM
I think he's absolutely overrated. There seems to be the general perception that this is one of the most versatile defenders available, but really, all I see is one of the most one-dimensional defenders that is even getting first round consideration. There should be a lot of concern surrounding the fact that his guy is the definition of a player who cruises by on physical talent alone, and showed a lack of being able to cope when his opponents adjusted for that. I think that any quality NFL left tackle is going to force him to totally re-think his game, and you never know how that will go.

Of course, this is a weak class, so his rise is absolutely understandable. I personally have him as the 15th best prospect or so, but that's me.

TheGreatEscape
04-08-2008, 02:50 PM
I rank right around where I ranked Merriman, but with how weak this draft is at the top and how the giants have everyone craving pass rushers i see him going in the top and top 5 wouldn't surprise me.

BamaFalcon59
04-08-2008, 04:31 PM
Is he overrated in respect to this year? I'd guess no, but then again, I feel like this is a really weak top of the draft in general. I don't think he's top 5 this year, grade wise, but folks that have him 6-10, I can buy that. It's really not a great year at the top.

Is he overrated in general? I've long been of the opinion yes. I still think he would be a better 4-3 end than 3-4 OLB, but I don't think he grades out as well as, say, Gaines Adams from last year. As a 3-4 OLB, I still have my concerns about him in space.

I agree completely. Most years I think he is a 8-14 talent, but this year I think it is reasonable to have him in the 6-10 range. But I would not say he is a top five player.

ATLDirtyBirds
04-08-2008, 04:36 PM
Personally, I don't see a DeMarcus Ware or Shawne Merriman. I think he's a little bit below them talent wise, but I'm talking about position wise. I think he's going to good at whatever, but I don't know about him at 3-4 OLB. I would keep him at 4-3 end.

DawgBone
04-08-2008, 04:39 PM
I would like to see the DL/OLB prospects that this "scout" prefers over him then. I dont think Gholston is overrated, but i do believe this draft class is horrible on deffense and i would like to know who is better.

DawgBone
04-08-2008, 04:41 PM
Personally, I don't see a DeMarcus Ware or Shawne Merriman. I think he's a little bit below them talent wise, but I'm talking about position wise. I think he's going to good at whatever, but I don't know about him at 3-4 OLB. I would keep him at 4-3 end.

Honestly now, when Ware and Merriman came in the draft noone thought that they would be as great as they are. If they did they would have went higher in RD1.

DawgBone
04-08-2008, 04:42 PM
"There seems to be the general perception that this is one of the most versatile defenders available, but really, all I see is one of the most one-dimensional defenders that is even getting first round consideration"


What a complete joke this is. have you ever watched Vernon in college? He was OSU's best run deffender last year on the DL and we had a top ranked run deffense. He is far from one dementional. Alot of teams chose not to run to his side.

Everyone knows about his pass rush skills but OSU had him drop into coverage on more than acouple occasions and he did very well at it.

Even in Scotts profile of him he mentions that he does "a solid job against the run".

BroadwayJoe10
04-08-2008, 07:28 PM
"There seems to be the general perception that this is one of the most versatile defenders available, but really, all I see is one of the most one-dimensional defenders that is even getting first round consideration"


What a complete joke this is. have you ever watched Vernon in college? He was OSU's best run deffender last year on the DL and we had a top ranked run deffense. He is far from one dementional. Alot of teams chose not to run to his side.

Everyone knows about his pass rush skills but OSU had him drop into coverage on more than acouple occasions and he did very well at it.

Even in Scotts profile of him he mentions that he does "a solid job against the run".



He can be good against the run on occasion. As an OSU fan, I'll assume you've watched every game from beginning to end, than you have to know that when he uses proper leverage he can be a tremendous threat as a part of the run defense. However, more often than not he gets too high and raises his center of gravity, which leads to him getting taken completely out of the play. Now this is something that can be worked on, but just because he has flashed the ability to be good against the run doesn't make him a good run defender..yet.

He also has a difficult time diagnosing screens and certain stretch plays, which leads to him being taken out of the play completely by less talented but smart OTs.

I think he's going to be a good player, but he does have a one dimensional stigma to him.

KCJ58
04-08-2008, 07:31 PM
don't listen to Mcshay

Paranoidmoonduck
04-08-2008, 07:45 PM
"There seems to be the general perception that this is one of the most versatile defenders available, but really, all I see is one of the most one-dimensional defenders that is even getting first round consideration"


What a complete joke this is. have you ever watched Vernon in college? He was OSU's best run deffender last year on the DL and we had a top ranked run deffense. He is far from one dementional. Alot of teams chose not to run to his side.

Everyone knows about his pass rush skills but OSU had him drop into coverage on more than acouple occasions and he did very well at it.

Even in Scotts profile of him he mentions that he does "a solid job against the run".

His inconsistent technique means that he gets washed out of the play way easier than a man of his physical ability should. The guy made very few plays outside of the pass rush game last season, and when he did he did so in a manner that likely will not work half as effectively against NFL linemen. Not to say he doesn't have the ability to be a good run defender, but I wouldn't view him as such right now.

TACKLE
04-08-2008, 10:42 PM
Gholston is definitely a boom or bust type prospect but his upside is undeniable. The one thing I don't understand is everybody talks about his amazing athletism but I think he is lacking smooth, fluid hips and flexibility. I see him as a LDE in a 4-3 because I don't see that ability to dip his shoulder, get low and get around the OT and get to the QB. Now I'm not saying he won't be successful because of that but that is a skill that almost all elite edge rushers possess in the NFL.

BamaFalcon59
04-08-2008, 10:47 PM
Gholston is definitely a boom or bust type prospect but his upside is undeniable. The one thing I don't understand is everybody talks about his amazing athletism but I think he is lacking smooth, fluid hips and flexibility. I see him as a LDE in a 4-3 because I don't see that ability to dip his shoulder, get low and get around the OT and get to the QB. Now I'm not saying he won't be successful because of that but that is a skill that almost all elite edge rushers possess in the NFL.

I'm not sure if he is a boom or bust pick. I think it is a given that he will get 10 plus sacks in his prime. Just my opinion.

CC.SD
04-08-2008, 11:52 PM
I'm not sure if he is a boom or bust pick. I think it is a given that he will get 10 plus sacks in his prime. Just my opinion.

I think in a 3-4 he could get ten sacks as a rookie. Just move him around and find the tight end. I'm not saying he'll be Merriman like, but I could see Gholston putting up huge numbers. In retrospect it's hard to deny that Merriman and Ware were the best prospects in 2005, and maybe the league has finally wisened up to that fact; can't let the next one just slip by.

Komp
04-08-2008, 11:59 PM
I think in terms of him being a 4-3 OLB he probably is not the best player for that position. I think that Quentin Groves would be that player. Gholston looks like more of a Dwight Freeney type of speed rusher and 4-3 [albeit undersized] DE to me. I dunno if he is overrated, but I think if a team tries to draft him with the intention of putting in a 4-3 OLB situation they might end up very disappointed.