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Rjspartan
04-08-2008, 06:50 PM
who do you think is the number one player in the draft?

Matthew Jones
04-08-2008, 06:51 PM
I think it's Chris Long for me.

terribletowel39
04-08-2008, 06:52 PM
Dorsey is the number one player. When healthy, he was damn near unblockable.

Shiver
04-08-2008, 07:12 PM
Give me Jake Long and I will have a very good OT for 10+ years. I think he is the sure thing, and having a dominant tackle is the foundation of any good offense.

BaLLiN
04-08-2008, 07:13 PM
id take jake long, he'll most likely be around longer and all the DL there are going to get worn down because they rely on athleticism and strength, not technique

brat316
04-08-2008, 07:15 PM
I think the best DT is Sedric Ellis. number 1 player is Chris Long i guess its close with him and Jake.

Yatta!
04-08-2008, 07:24 PM
Chris Long for me as well, a total beast. McFadden came close though.

neko4
04-08-2008, 07:27 PM
Glenn Dorsey is the best DT i have seen since i first started paying attention to the draft in '03

toonsterwu
04-08-2008, 07:32 PM
What are we talking about here? Value wise, I'd go Chris Long. High reward, low risk, good talent, good intangibles. Pure talent, I'd go Glenn Dorsey. If healthy, I believe Glenn Dorsey is the only elite talent in the draft. He's a guy that can dominate from the interior, and those are hard to find. That said, his health concerns would slide his value down for me below Chris Long (btw, I voted Dorsey).

Turtlepower
04-08-2008, 07:32 PM
Value wise, they are all bunched together with I would say Gholston falling to the back of the pack. So I will not vote because none of them are clearly the best. (Though Chris Long on the Giants would be Godly)

A Perfect Score
04-08-2008, 07:34 PM
i think when healthy, it is glen dorsey...he is dominant. however, seeing as he has some serious health issues, i voted for jake long

lordquas
04-08-2008, 07:47 PM
long. chris long

Michigan
04-08-2008, 08:31 PM
Jake Long is a BEAST.

BeerBaron
04-08-2008, 08:38 PM
i went with jake long. The best franchise OTs are only found at teh top of round 1 usually hes it for this draft. Sure up one side of that line for a decade or better

BamaFalcon59
04-08-2008, 08:49 PM
Jake Long is not the best player in the draft. He might be the safest and at a very important position, but no way is he as talented as Glenn Dorsey, Darren McFadden, and in my opinion Chris Long. In the past three years he would be the worst of the top offensive tackles. Same for McFadden maybe, but I think it is closer. Dorsey is easily the top defensive tackle prospect in the past few years. So I would give the nod to him.

BlindSite
04-08-2008, 08:53 PM
Give me Jake Long and I will have a very good OT for 10+ years. I think he is the sure thing, and having a dominant tackle is the foundation of any good offense.

He's not going to be an all pro left tackle imo.

Brent
04-08-2008, 08:59 PM
McFadden for me.

ThePudge
04-08-2008, 09:01 PM
Depends how you are asking this question, it's no simple question. Is it (a), raw talent wise? Or is it (b), if I started a franchise today who would I take?

There is a different answer for both.

I believe the answer for A is probably Darren McFadden. Once in a while, the NFL Draft will include a sub 4.35 back that is a legitimate 1st Round talent. Once in a while. Not often is that same back 6'1 1/4 211 lbs, a two time first-team All-American, two time Doak Walker Award winner, a Walter Camp Award winner, and once again, a two time Hesiman Trophy runner-up. In the past three years McFadden has accounted for 4589 yards and 41 Touchdowns on the ground in the SEC, with 46 rec for 365 yds and 1 Td in his career, he was underused. McFadden even threw for seven Td's the past two years.

He is unparalleled athletically, and blessed with tremendous straight-line speed.

However, I believe Matt Ryan is the most valuable player in this draft. I would select Ryan before I would McFadden.

TACKLE
04-08-2008, 10:26 PM
It's close between Dorsey and Long. Long is a freak and plays his heart out on everydown but Dorsey has the ability to be a special player who doesn't come around very often.

I voted for Dorsey

Paranoidmoonduck
04-08-2008, 10:31 PM
In the end, talent wins out. Dorsey.

ChezPower4
04-08-2008, 10:33 PM
Darren McFadden is for me he has been since October and he has done nothing to make me think that he isn't.

BamaFalcon59
04-08-2008, 10:46 PM
I am not sure why anyone would think Vernon Gholston is the best player in the draft.

CARDIAC CAT 7
04-09-2008, 12:36 AM
Past Four Years:
OT:
1. Joe Thomas , WIS (CLE)
2. D'Brickshaw Ferguson , VIR (NYJ)
3. Robert Gallery , IOWA (OAK)
4. Jake Long , MICH (-)
5. Levi Brown , PSU (ARZ)
DT:
1. Glenn Dorsey , LSU (-)
2. Tommie Harris , OU (CHI)
3. Haloti Ngata , ORG (BAL)
4. Amobi Okoye , UL (HOU)
5. Vince Wilfork , MIA (NE)

When it comes to pre-draft grade I think this is it stacks up Glenn Dorsey is clearly on another level from any other top prospect of recent draft. Jake Long reminds me to much of Robert Gallery rather than Joe Thomas and Ferguson. I can't see how some can rate Jake Long as the number one prospect when hes a Good Left Tackle and Pro Bowl Right Tackle. Glenn Dorsey has a chance to change the way the DT spot is looked at.

Abaddon
04-09-2008, 04:23 AM
What are we talking about here? Value wise, I'd go Chris Long. High reward, low risk, good talent, good intangibles. Pure talent, I'd go Glenn Dorsey. If healthy, I believe Glenn Dorsey is the only elite talent in the draft. He's a guy that can dominate from the interior, and those are hard to find. That said, his health concerns would slide his value down for me below Chris Long (btw, I voted Dorsey).
Pretty much agree across the board.

Jakey
04-09-2008, 05:28 AM
I'd go Chris Long...but i think he is best suited as a 4-3 end.

D-Rod
04-09-2008, 06:36 AM
Past Four Years:
OT:
1. Joe Thomas , WIS (CLE)
2. D'Brickshaw Ferguson , VIR (NYJ)
3. Robert Gallery , IOWA (OAK)
4. Jake Long , MICH (-)
5. Levi Brown , PSU (ARZ)
DT:
1. Glenn Dorsey , LSU (-)
2. Tommie Harris , OU (CHI)
3. Haloti Ngata , ORG (BAL)
4. Amobi Okoye , UL (HOU)
5. Vince Wilfork , MIA (NE)

When it comes to pre-draft grade I think this is it stacks up Glenn Dorsey is clearly on another level from any other top prospect of recent draft. Jake Long reminds me to much of Robert Gallery rather than Joe Thomas and Ferguson. I can't see how some can rate Jake Long as the number one prospect when hes a Good Left Tackle and Pro Bowl Right Tackle. Glenn Dorsey has a chance to change the way the DT spot is looked at.

Exactly how I would analyse the issue (though I am slightly higher on Long than you appear to be). Dorsey is the best player in the draft.

eaglesalltheway
04-09-2008, 06:51 AM
To me, Dorsey and the Long boys are waaay ahead of the pack this year. If it weren't for concerns over his injuries, there would almost be no weaknesses listed for this guy. I expect Dorsey to be a major piece to whatever teams puzzle that he goes to. Chris Long is my #2, and Jake Long is #3. I have Sedrick Ellis as my #4 player in this draft, and after that, it is really difficult to rank them for me.

Flyboy
04-09-2008, 09:02 AM
Glenn Dorsey for me with D-Mac behind him to me.

Matthew Jones
04-12-2008, 09:09 AM
Personally, I think Jake Long, Chris Long, Glenn Dorsey are all very close, but I voted for Jake Long and he now sits at #1 atop my big board. Dorsey has some mild injury concerns which drops him to #3, and I just think it's so much harder to find a quality LT than a pass rusher, and that Chris Long being drafted #1 would make him play a different position than he's used to (I think his best fit is end in a 4-3) makes him a more risky proposition. It's extremely close though.

Who Dat Nation
04-12-2008, 09:34 AM
I personally believe it's Glenn Dorsey. I'm gonna go as far to say Pro-Bowl as a rookie...

etk
04-12-2008, 11:10 AM
I am not sure why anyone would think Vernon Gholston is the best player in the draft.

Because he's a freakish athlete who could lead the league in sacks from the 3-4 OLB position. I have Gholston #3 on this list. I am not sure why anyone would even make Matt Ryan a poll option though.

I chose Jake Long, as I feel he will be one of the most valuable and highest paid players in the league playing LT. He's a dominant run blocker, avoids penalties and he will only get beat by the best of the best in pass pro (if at all).

bam bam
04-12-2008, 11:51 AM
I think it's Chris Long for me.

to me it look like a leprechaun to me

etk
04-12-2008, 12:01 PM
to me it look like a leprechaun to me

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH omg

thefalconer
04-12-2008, 12:37 PM
i wanna know who voted for matt ryan and have him banned.

BamaFalcon59
04-12-2008, 01:15 PM
Because he's a freakish athlete who could lead the league in sacks from the 3-4 OLB position. I have Gholston #3 on this list. I am not sure why anyone would even make Matt Ryan a poll option though.

I chose Jake Long, as I feel he will be one of the most valuable and highest paid players in the league playing LT. He's a dominant run blocker, avoids penalties and he will only get beat by the best of the best in pass pro (if at all).

There are tons of freakish athletes. He is no different than a Shawn Merriman, DeMarcus Ware, or even a Kamerion Wimbley. Players like him come out every year. He does not seperate him from the others like Dorsey does. A top OT is rarer than a top 3-4 OLB. And if you were to pick a DE/ OLB it should be Chris Long, who is almost as athletic, has better career production, better against the run, more consistent, more versatile, and has better intangibles.

Bills2083
04-12-2008, 01:25 PM
I went with Jake Long...
BTW, it's very close:

Darren McFadden - 21
Jake Long - 19
Chris Long - 21
Glenn Dorsey - 18

Sveen
04-12-2008, 01:34 PM
I'm going with Glenn Dorsey, which will be a Saint on April 26th (I hope...)

CC.SD
04-12-2008, 01:49 PM
The footage says Dorsey, which is not exactly going against the grain in this thread...

saintsfan912
04-12-2008, 02:36 PM
Would be amazing to see the #1 player fall to us at 10. Dorsey is the best with his "Mild" injury concerns. I'd take those concerns over any of these guys any day of the week.

etk
04-12-2008, 04:39 PM
There are tons of freakish athletes. He is no different than a Shawn Merriman, DeMarcus Ware, or even a Kamerion Wimbley. Players like him come out every year. He does not seperate him from the others like Dorsey does. A top OT is rarer than a top 3-4 OLB. And if you were to pick a DE/ OLB it should be Chris Long, who is almost as athletic, has better career production, better against the run, more consistent, more versatile, and has better intangibles.

All of those players you mentioned would be in contention for #1 picks had teams known how good they would be in the NFL, so very foolish argument. Gholston is a once-a-year athlete at DE, but so what? Every year it seems there's another franchise QB available with the 1st pick, so should we stop drafting them? Also I don't see anything that separates Dorsey from the past 1st round DTs, and in fact there are a large portion of draft fans and analysts that think Sedrick Ellis is the best in the draft. Gholston is the undisputed top prospect at 3-4 OLB.

You clearly have some sort of agenda here, or you are just misinformed, because your arguments are completely wrong. Chris Long is not the explosive athlete that Gholston is as an edge rusher. Gholston has 22.5 sacks in 2 years with 30.5 TFLs. Long has 19 sacks and 31 TFLs in that span, and that's not even accounting for the fact that Gholston is a Junior and Long is a Senior. If you compared their first 3 years of production it wouldn't even be close. Long is more consistent and versatile? I'm not sure considering how most of his production came against weaker teams (Wyoming, Duke, etc.) earlier in the year, with his production dropping off as teams were more aware of his impact. If he was so consistent then how come he had almost twice as many sacks in 1 year as he had in 3 years? Gholston has had 2 productive seasons with his best performances coming in big games (Michigan, Wisconsin), and we can only imagine what he would've done if he had a Senior year like Long did. Gholston can play DE in any system except a 3-4, and he can play OLB or ILB in a 3-4. Long is too small to play DE in a 3-4 and not explosive enough to be a true edge rusher in a Cover 2. His best position is LDE in a base 4-3 and there is a drop off at any other position or alignment, so the idea that Long is very versatile is not correct. He can play in other systems or positions but he only has one great fit. Gholston would be outstanding as a 4-3 end or 3-4 OLB.

This is all irrelevant anyway. I think Gholston is the 3rd best prospect in a weak draft and I'd have him in the 5-10 range in a good draft.

Scotty D
04-12-2008, 04:53 PM
Chris Long, Chris Long, Chris Long, Chris Long. If I was starting a team with one player from this draft I would take Chris Long. If Matt Ryan was a little more polished and if Jake Long's left tackle abilites were more certain I would go with them. A defensive end with his motor and pedigree is something every team is looking for.

BamaFalcon59
04-12-2008, 05:10 PM
All of those players you mentioned would be in contention for #1 picks had teams known how good they would be in the NFL, so very foolish argument. Gholston is a once-a-year athlete at DE, but so what? Every year it seems there's another franchise QB available with the 1st pick, so should we stop drafting them? Also I don't see anything that separates Dorsey from the past 1st round DTs, and in fact there are a large portion of draft fans and analysts that think Sedrick Ellis is the best in the draft. Gholston is the undisputed top prospect at 3-4 OLB.

You clearly have some sort of agenda here, or you are just misinformed, because your arguments are completely wrong. Chris Long is not the explosive athlete that Gholston is as an edge rusher. Gholston has 22.5 sacks in 2 years with 30.5 TFLs. Long has 19 sacks and 31 TFLs in that span, and that's not even accounting for the fact that Gholston is a Junior and Long is a Senior. If you compared their first 3 years of production it wouldn't even be close. Long is more consistent and versatile? I'm not sure considering how most of his production came against weaker teams (Wyoming, Duke, etc.) earlier in the year, with his production dropping off as teams were more aware of his impact. If he was so consistent then how come he had almost twice as many sacks in 1 year as he had in 3 years? Gholston has had 2 productive seasons with his best performances coming in big games (Michigan, Wisconsin), and we can only imagine what he would've done if he had a Senior year like Long did. Gholston can play DE in any system except a 3-4, and he can play OLB or ILB in a 3-4. Long is too small to play DE in a 3-4 and not explosive enough to be a true edge rusher in a Cover 2. His best position is LDE in a base 4-3 and there is a drop off at any other position or alignment, so the idea that Long is very versatile is not correct. He can play in other systems or positions but he only has one great fit. Gholston would be outstanding as a 4-3 end or 3-4 OLB.

This is all irrelevant anyway. I think Gholston is the 3rd best prospect in a weak draft and I'd have him in the 5-10 range in a good draft.

- That does not matter. You using NFL success is foolish. This is as a prospect. Their success moves him up, but not to the top five.

- A franchise QB and a very good pass rusher are completely different. First of all the QB effects the game much more, second of all a great pass rusher is much easier to find.

- What analysts? Kiper, Mayock, McShay, Scott Wright, etc all have Dorsey ahead.

- If Dorsey is not undisputed, then Gholston is not undisputed. Plenty of people, on here at least, believe Harvey and Groves are better. I say Harvey.

- You are wrong on about everything you have said.

- Chris Long played DE in a 3-4. Gholston in a 4-3. Chris Long still had more tackles for loss in the past two years than Gholston, and this year had just as many sacks. Any basic football follower knows that 3-4 DEs work a lot more for their stats.

- Three year starter. Viewed as a possible first round pick since sophmore year. Never gets ran at, despite being an undersized 3-4 DE. Constantly applies pressure, where as Gholston disappears from games. If you ever watched Virginia play then you know this.

- Gholston disappeared in half his games, and has technical flaws. Just about anyone who watched Ohio State play can tell you that. Dominant at times, watching at others.

- It is a given that Long could play DE in a 3-4. He slimmed down for workouts because of forty time and him being looked at as a linebacker. He has weighed in at up to 280 pounds. He could play 3-4 DE.

- He lacks explosion and can not be a dominant pass rusher? You obviously lack knowlege. He constantly pressures the QB, and has a variety of pass rush moves. He also never gets taken out of the play by bad angles. The white steriotype strikes again. He might not straight up run around you, but he will get to the quarterback and is more than athletic enough to be a Tampa 2 DE.

- Why would it not be a fit? Is it because he is a more fluid athlete than Gholston? Does that somehow hurt his ability to cover and play outside linebacker? Or is it his 4.75 40 yard dash (7th for DL at combine)? Vertical jump (3rd)? Broad jump (2nd)? 3 cone drill (4th)? Shuttle (1st)? He beat the 'uber athletic' Gholston by a significant amount in the three cone and shuttle, and was not far off in the broad jump (1") and vertical jump (1 1/2"). Their 10 yard dash was the same. But he is not explosive you say.

ThePudge
04-12-2008, 06:04 PM
I went with Matt Ryan.

Don't worry, I won't leave it at that. I have my reasons.

This draft really does not have any can't-miss prospects. It's better than the 05 draft at the top, and is a strong draft from the 2nd-5th Round or so, but the talent at the top in watered down. I'd rank several players from last year's class over Matt Ryan, who I have as the top player on my big board. This year I think it's more of a tier for the top player available. In that first tier we see...

a) Matt Ryan
b) Glenn Dorsey
c) Jake Long
d) Darren McFadden
e) Chris Long
f) Vernon Gholston
and Sedrick Ellis is the other prospect that receives consideration in that tier.

It's not so much that Ryan is earning the spot. He was not the best college player on the list, we all know that, and does not have the most upside on this list. To me, though, his lack of real bust potential, combined with his ability to potentially be a franchise passer, the league's most important and demanded position, gets him my vote.

Chris Long - Excellent football player, great character, very smart, athletic, versatile. However, Long may lack star potential. He will likely be converting to OLB in the NFL (if Miami picks him as expected), he could excel there, but it's still not his natural position, giving him a bit of risk factor. Long is one of the less physically talented players in that top tier.

Jake Long - Good left tackle prospect, dominant right tackle prospect. He is not, however, the typical franchise LT prospect. In fact, in a draft like this (deep in OT's), there are a couple more natural fits at LT to be had (Ryan Clady and Chris Williams for starters.) No Tackle prospect combines size with brute force, athleticism, and collegiate success quite like Long does though, separating. Long still isn't the type of prospect as Thomas, Ferguson, or Gallery before him, so it's hard for me to put him at #1. His questionable upside at LT in the NFL provides some doubt.

Glenn Dorsey - Probably the best college player on this list and the most rare prospect for his position. He is explosive, athletic, strong and smart, a lethal combination. He adds top-notch leadership skills to his athletic ability, forming a seemingly unreal prospect at DT. Stress fractures, however, don't disappear. Dorsey's aren't as serious as some would lead you to believe, but are an issue. Dorsey has a habit of getting nicked up and manning the trenches in the NFL will take a toll on Dorsey's body. At his position, with his injury problems, I'd be fairly surprised if he made it 10 years in the NFL. Should have an excellent career while it lasts.

Darren McFadden - Probably the prospect on this list with the most upside. McFadden, at 6'1 1/4 211 running a 4.33 40, is a freak physically, with unbelievable straight-line speed, playmaking ability, surprising power, and will go down in history as one of the SEC's greatest backs. There are a couple problems though that lead me to believe he's a better college player than he is a pro prospect. His upright running style paired with skinny legs leads many to believe he'll be injury prone or at least not be able to be a typical workhorse back at the next level. His character is a small cause for concern, as he is the only player on this list who doesn't exactly have a strong track record there.

Vernon Gholston - A tremendous athlete. At DE, Gholston combines speed and freakish athleticism with unbelievable strength and power. Inexperience and inconsistency hold back Gholston as he is still more of a workout warrior than football player at this point. He is a good player, and a smart kid, don't get me wrong, but he lacks the polish and technique of Chris Long.

Matt Ryan - My pick. All I hear is "19 Interception" blah blah blah. If Qb's were to be graded purely on stats, Colt Brennan would be an All-Pro before strapping on his helmet. Ryan had his fair share of mistakes, took his lumps and bruises, but kept on fighting during his college career. He never complained about a lack of elite talent around him, never complained about a patchwork OL that had players playing out of position or even about a defense that allowed 42 points to Maryland, 27 to Florida State, and 30 to Virginia Tech (Not exactly your Indianapolis Colts offenses). Ryan led a less talented team in the ACC to an 11-3 record and a bowl victory his senior season, while gaining the respect and love of his teammates. He often led the team single-handedly, putting them on his back and taking them for the ride. He's very smart, very tough, clutch, has all the heart in the world, is a great leader, and finally, brings the best out of those around him.

He may throw Int's, but make no mistake, he is the anti-Grossman. His confidence separates him from most QB prospects. His ability to perform when the pressure is on separates him. He has also shown that he can carry his team and win the big game. Most criticize his physical ability when they learn he is all there mentally, though I can't see why. At 6'4 7/8 228, Ryan has that prototype size, has a good arm, capable of putting plenty of zip on the ball and throws a decent deep ball (but can improve). He throws a tight spiral, has very good pocket presence, shows great escapability and is capable of throwing very well on the run. He can make plays when everything breaks down.

He has forced some passes, but has gradually improved at reading defenses. He's able to digest a playbook quickly and is smart enough to be penciled in as the starter for opnening day. Ryan has the mechanics and experience in a Pro-Style offense that a guy like Alex Smith didn't. He has the intangibles that JaMarcus Russell didn't. Has some negatives, he's not perfect, but his negatives are correctable and his positives. Not a perfect QB prospect, won't be Peyton Manning/Tom Brady, but is talented and smart enough to devlop into an upper echelon NFL QB.

Young Legend
04-12-2008, 06:09 PM
Dorsey if he is 100% healthy..other wise Darren McFadden.

ThePudge
04-12-2008, 06:14 PM
Dorsey if he is 100% healthy..other wise Darren McFadden.

Dorsey will never be 100%. He will probably be at 90-95% at his best. Stress fractures don't disappear, it's a sign of wear and tear that builds over time. His size and position doesn't do him any favors fighting injuries either.

saintsfan912
04-12-2008, 06:57 PM
Dorsey at 95% is still the best player in the draft.

scottyboy
04-12-2008, 07:46 PM
Raymell Rice

Gay Ork Wang
04-12-2008, 07:51 PM
May i say it?
JORDYZZZZZZ OMGZZZZZ NELSONZZZZZ

ThePudge
04-12-2008, 08:08 PM
Dorsey at 95% is still the best player in the draft.

Ahh words from someone with an LSU sig. I included 5 of the 7 top prospects in my sig as to not show bias against or toward anyone.

scottyboy
04-12-2008, 08:22 PM
Ahh words from someone with an LSU sig. I included 5 of the 7 top prospects in my sig as to not show bias against or toward anyone.

I don't see any of the top 7 prospects.

Where are Rice, Ito, Foster, Fladell, Zuttah, Sosa, and Girault?

ninerfan
04-13-2008, 12:22 AM
I'd take Jake Long

Oaktown1981
04-13-2008, 01:58 AM
McFadden then Dorsey

etk
04-13-2008, 09:08 AM
- That does not matter. You using NFL success is foolish. This is as a prospect. Their success moves him up, but not to the top five.

- A franchise QB and a very good pass rusher are completely different. First of all the QB effects the game much more, second of all a great pass rusher is much easier to find.

- What analysts? Kiper, Mayock, McShay, Scott Wright, etc all have Dorsey ahead.

- If Dorsey is not undisputed, then Gholston is not undisputed. Plenty of people, on here at least, believe Harvey and Groves are better. I say Harvey.

- You are wrong on about everything you have said.

- Chris Long played DE in a 3-4. Gholston in a 4-3. Chris Long still had more tackles for loss in the past two years than Gholston, and this year had just as many sacks. Any basic football follower knows that 3-4 DEs work a lot more for their stats.

- Three year starter. Viewed as a possible first round pick since sophmore year. Never gets ran at, despite being an undersized 3-4 DE. Constantly applies pressure, where as Gholston disappears from games. If you ever watched Virginia play then you know this.

- Gholston disappeared in half his games, and has technical flaws. Just about anyone who watched Ohio State play can tell you that. Dominant at times, watching at others.

- It is a given that Long could play DE in a 3-4. He slimmed down for workouts because of forty time and him being looked at as a linebacker. He has weighed in at up to 280 pounds. He could play 3-4 DE.

- He lacks explosion and can not be a dominant pass rusher? You obviously lack knowlege. He constantly pressures the QB, and has a variety of pass rush moves. He also never gets taken out of the play by bad angles. The white steriotype strikes again. He might not straight up run around you, but he will get to the quarterback and is more than athletic enough to be a Tampa 2 DE.

- Why would it not be a fit? Is it because he is a more fluid athlete than Gholston? Does that somehow hurt his ability to cover and play outside linebacker? Or is it his 4.75 40 yard dash (7th for DL at combine)? Vertical jump (3rd)? Broad jump (2nd)? 3 cone drill (4th)? Shuttle (1st)? He beat the 'uber athletic' Gholston by a significant amount in the three cone and shuttle, and was not far off in the broad jump (1") and vertical jump (1 1/2"). Their 10 yard dash was the same. But he is not explosive you say.

There is no point in arguing with you because you completely lack simple grade 3 reading comprehension skills. Learn how to understand my posts and read simple english and then maybe we can discuss why Vernon Gholston deserves to contend for the #1 ranking in this draft class. Your use of broad generalizations and attack mechanisms that are simply false also contribute to the reasons why I refuse to answer this ridiculous post.

Sniper
04-13-2008, 09:39 AM
Jake Long - Good left tackle prospect, dominant right tackle prospect. He is not, however, the typical franchise LT prospect. In fact, in a draft like this (deep in OT's), there are a couple more natural fits at LT to be had (Ryan Clady and Chris Williams for starters.) No Tackle prospect combines size with brute force, athleticism, and collegiate success quite like Long does though, separating. Long still isn't the type of prospect as Thomas, Ferguson, or Gallery before him, so it's hard for me to put him at #1. His questionable upside at LT in the NFL provides some doubt.



I'm still waiting on an explanation as to why Long, who gave up two sacks in four years, is a meh LT prospect, but Clady and Williams, who gave up more than that this year alone, are sure things.

Staubach12
04-13-2008, 10:14 AM
I have Dorsey, McFadden, C. Long, J. Long and then Gholston.

BamaFalcon59
04-13-2008, 10:41 AM
There is no point in arguing with you because you completely lack simple grade 3 reading comprehension skills. Learn how to understand my posts and read simple english and then maybe we can discuss why Vernon Gholston deserves to contend for the #1 ranking in this draft class. Your use of broad generalizations and attack mechanisms that are simply false also contribute to the reasons why I refuse to answer this ridiculous post.

So basically you are going to stop because you know you are wrong.

ThePudge
04-13-2008, 05:58 PM
I'm still waiting on an explanation as to why Long, who gave up two sacks in four years, is a meh LT prospect, but Clady and Williams, who gave up more than that this year alone, are sure things.

Feet, athleticism, a bit more nimble, higher long-term upside are just a few reasons. Long is the most polished, but I don't see him as having franchise LT qualities. His run blocking is top-notch, best in this draft. His pass blocking is good but as I said before I believe he may have a harder time adjusting to the speed of NFL DE's.

Robert Gallery, an excellent Tackle prospect in 2004 from the Big Ten never adjusted, even though he faced excellent pass rushers often in college as well. I simply realize that it's not an exact projection from college LT to NFL LT. Gallery failed. Joe Thomas and D'Brickshaw Ferguson, two more athletic players have worked out. Long may be a great Left Tackle, but I think it'll take a bit of time. He's probably at his best at Right Tackle or Left Tackle in a power rushing scheme like that of Miami, Atlanta, and Kansas City.

Clady and Williams (who I'm not a big fan of by the way) are likely more suitable for the LT position. I'm not saying they will be better, but athletically, they have a slight advantage. Long could be the league's top RT, or a good LT, but I don't see him as an elite prospect at Left Tackle.

You got the explanation last time, so don't make this seem like an ongoing argument which I have repeatedly ducked out of.

BamaFalcon59
04-13-2008, 06:01 PM
Joe Thomas and D'Brickshaw Ferguson, two more athletic players have worked out.


Furguson gave up double digit sacks last year. At this point he has hardly 'worked out'.

ThePudge
04-13-2008, 06:05 PM
Furguson gave up double digit sacks last year. At this point he has hardly 'worked out'.

Yea, this year was rough for Ferguson, kind of just threw his name in there. His rookie season was good, though he did struggle this year. I wouldn't call him a bust yet, the jury's still out. I probably shouln't have used him in my argument because it neither helps or hurts my point.

Sniper
04-13-2008, 06:36 PM
Feet, athleticism, a bit more nimble, higher long-term upside are just a few reasons. Long is the most polished, but I don't see him as having franchise LT qualities. His run blocking is top-notch, best in this draft. His pass blocking is good but as I said before I believe he may have a harder time adjusting to the speed of NFL DE's.

Robert Gallery, an excellent Tackle prospect in 2004 from the Big Ten never adjusted, even though he faced excellent pass rushers often in college as well. I simply realize that it's not an exact projection from college LT to NFL LT. Gallery failed. Joe Thomas and D'Brickshaw Ferguson, two more athletic players have worked out. Long may be a great Left Tackle, but I think it'll take a bit of time. He's probably at his best at Right Tackle or Left Tackle in a power rushing scheme like that of Miami, Atlanta, and Kansas City.

Clady and Williams (who I'm not a big fan of by the way) are likely more suitable for the LT position. I'm not saying they will be better, but athletically, they have a slight advantage. Long could be the league's top RT, or a good LT, but I don't see him as an elite prospect at Left Tackle.

You got the explanation last time, so don't make this seem like an ongoing argument which I have repeatedly ducked out of.

I didn't see your argument.

BlindSite
04-13-2008, 07:17 PM
IMO Long = Jordan Gross.

Too much of a plodder to be a dominant LT but will be one of the best RTs in the game.

bored of education
04-13-2008, 07:24 PM
John David Booty

etk
04-13-2008, 08:29 PM
^does that by any chance have to do with his last name?

bored of education
04-13-2008, 09:13 PM
^does that by any chance have to do with his last name?


maybe. . . .

LonghornsLegend
04-13-2008, 09:15 PM
This poll is almost a deadlock between the top 4 guys...all pretty even and probably depends on what your looking for.

Michigan
04-13-2008, 09:31 PM
I don't get why people think Jake Long isn't as good of an athlete as Clady, Williams, or even Otah. Let's look at the measurables w/o names:

OT 1 Combine Results:
5.17 40 yd (1.75 10 yd)
4.85 20 yd shuttle
7.95 3-cone
25" vert
8'07" broad

OT 2 Combine Results:
5.17 40 yd (1.75 10 yd)
4.73 20 yd shuttle
7.44 3-cone
27 1/2" vert
8'06" broad

OT 3 Pro Day Results:
5.20 40 yd (1.81 10 yd)
4.73 20 yd shuttle
7.07 3-cone
31" vert
9'00" broad

OT 4 Combine Results:
5.55 40 yd (1.83 10 yd)
22 1/2" vert
8'06" broad

From these numbers, OT's 1, 2, and 3 seem to have similar levels of athleticism. OT 3 appears the most athletic, followed closely by OT 2 and then OT 1. OT 4 seems the least athletic.

OT 3 is Ryan Clady, and Scott's report labels him "a fantastic athlete", which he clearly is.

OT 1 is Chris Williams, and Scott's report labels him "an outstanding athlete", which I can agree with as well.

OT 2, whose measurables are slightly better than Williams's across the board, is Jake Long. However, Scott labels Long "Not a great natural athlete". Kinda inconsistent, especially when you consider that--

OT 4, who has the worst numbers, is Jeff Otah. Scott calls him "a great athlete with terrific quickness."

It's odd that while Jake Long's numbers are up there with the rest of the top 4 OT's, he's the only one whose athleticism is under question. Measurables aren't the whole story, and Jake Long certainly could be the least athletic of the 4, but the numbers suggest he isn't far behind (if at all).

ThePudge
04-13-2008, 11:27 PM
I didn't see your argument.

Ah, well I believe that's along the lines of what I mentioned last time, no big deal if you didn't see it. It's fine that you like Long, you're not alone. I am a fan too, however I understand drafting an OT top 3 is not an exact science. As I said, I think Long is a franchise RT, someone who could play and go to the pro bowl for years, and a more than solid LT. However, I favor Ryan.

I see a potential franchise QB as more of a value than a franchise LT. I'm not saying Ryan will be a franchise Quarterback, but I'd give him similar chances to Long becoming a franchise Left Tackle. It comes down to simply QB > LT there for me. As I said, no problem with Long, in fact he is #2 on my Big Board behind Matt Ryan.

As I said pretty much said previously, in my original post, throw those six names in a hat (Ryan, Dorsey, J. Long, C. Long, Gholston, and McFadden), close your eyes, and pick. They're all quite even in that top tier, it comes down to little personal beliefs and technicalities.

What I am saying is I think there is an equal chance of Jake Long becoming a Pro Bowl Left Tackle to Matt Ryan becoming a Pro Bowl Quarterback. I'd simply rather have that quarterback, the position that offenses are built around, than the left tackle.

AtariBigby
04-13-2008, 11:29 PM
I think it's Chris Long for me.
No doubt about it.
His dad's a Hall of Famer, and he's better. What more do you want?
Glitz and tattoos?

AtariBigby
04-13-2008, 11:37 PM
I don't get why people think Jake Long isn't as good of an athlete as Clady, Williams, or even Otah. Let's look at the measurables w/o names:

OT 1 Combine Results:
5.17 40 yd (1.75 10 yd)
4.85 20 yd shuttle
7.95 3-cone
25" vert
8'07" broad

OT 2 Combine Results:
5.17 40 yd (1.75 10 yd)
4.73 20 yd shuttle
7.44 3-cone
27 1/2" vert
8'06" broad

OT 3 Pro Day Results:
5.20 40 yd (1.81 10 yd)
4.73 20 yd shuttle
7.07 3-cone
31" vert
9'00" broad

OT 4 Combine Results:
5.55 40 yd (1.83 10 yd)
22 1/2" vert
8'06" broad

From these numbers, OT's 1, 2, and 3 seem to have similar levels of athleticism. OT 3 appears the most athletic, followed closely by OT 2 and then OT 1. OT 4 seems the least athletic.

OT 3 is Ryan Clady, and Scott's report labels him "a fantastic athlete", which he clearly is.

OT 1 is Chris Williams, and Scott's report labels him "an outstanding athlete", which I can agree with as well.

OT 2, whose measurables are slightly better than Williams's across the board, is Jake Long. However, Scott labels Long "Not a great natural athlete". Kinda inconsistent, especially when you consider that--

OT 4, who has the worst numbers, is Jeff Otah. Scott calls him "a great athlete with terrific quickness."

It's odd that while Jake Long's numbers are up there with the rest of the top 4 OT's, he's the only one whose athleticism is under question. Measurables aren't the whole story, and Jake Long certainly could be the least athletic of the 4, but the numbers suggest he isn't far behind (if at all).

Great post. Post of the month for sure.
There's some stereotying going on there for sure.
Do people judge "atheticism" by speed and quickness and performances, or what they look like?

BamaFalcon59
04-13-2008, 11:40 PM
Great post. Post of the month for sure.
There's some stereotying going on there for sure.
Do people judge "atheticism" by speed and quickness and performances, or what they look like?

Chris Long is a victim as well. He is very athletic, fluid, and has a great burst, but the 'white steriotype' is overshadowing that.

thebow305
04-14-2008, 01:30 AM
Depends how you are asking this question, it's no simple question. Is it (a), raw talent wise? Or is it (b), if I started a franchise today who would I take?

There is a different answer for both.

I believe the answer for A is probably Darren McFadden. Once in a while, the NFL Draft will include a sub 4.35 back that is a legitimate 1st Round talent. Once in a while. Not often is that same back 6'1 1/4 211 lbs, a two time first-team All-American, two time Doak Walker Award winner, a Walter Camp Award winner, and once again, a two time Hesiman Trophy runner-up. In the past three years McFadden has accounted for 4589 yards and 41 Touchdowns on the ground in the SEC, with 46 rec for 365 yds and 1 Td in his career, he was underused. McFadden even threw for seven Td's the past two years.

He is unparalleled athletically, and blessed with tremendous straight-line speed.

However, I believe Matt Ryan is the most valuable player in this draft. I would select Ryan before I would McFadden.

You probably shouldn't be allowed to post here anymore after that.

Along with anyone else that voted for Matt Ryan.

WAIT!! Is that you Mayock!?

ThePudge
04-14-2008, 01:57 AM
You probably shouldn't be allowed to post here anymore after that.

Along with anyone else that voted for Matt Ryan.

WAIT!! Is that you Mayock!?

Same principle as I would take Peyton Manning before LaDanian Tomlinson. The potential franchise QB has to be more valuable than the potential franchise RB.