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theogt
04-09-2008, 11:21 AM
Got these results from another forum (the guy that reported them also reported that they weren't going to run at the original pro day long before anyone else reported it, so he seems reliable):

40-yard-dash's have been run.

Malcolm Kelly: 4.77 ; 4.75

Reggie Smith: 4.67 ; 4.65


Also, for Reggie Smith's vertical, he recorded a 39 1/2 inch high, and for the standing broad jump, recorded a jump of 10 feet, 9 inches.

Malcolm Kelly hit 32 inches for his vertical and had a broad jump of 9 feet 11 inches.

Jakey
04-09-2008, 11:23 AM
Oooo...not good times for Kelly! Injury must be lingering!

CC.SD
04-09-2008, 11:23 AM
Got these results from another forum (the guy that reported them also reported that they weren't going to run at the original pro day long before anyone else reported it, so he seems reliable):

40-yard-dash's have been run.

Malcolm Kelly: 4.77 ; 4.75

Reggie Smith: 4.67 ; 4.65


Also, for Reggie Smith's vertical, he recorded a 39 1/2 inch high, and for the standing broad jump, recorded a jump of 10 feet, 9 inches.

Malcolm Kelly hit 32 inches for his vertical and had a broad jump of 9 feet 11 inches.

I haven't played more than a pickup game in years and I'm pretty sure I could beat 4.77. I think Malcolm Kelly just became a 6th rounder.

Reggie might be a late 2nd if he's very lucky.

Im_a_Romosexual
04-09-2008, 11:24 AM
Even worse than I thought they would do!

I had smith at 4.6 flat and Kelly at 4.55

MURPHMAN
04-09-2008, 11:26 AM
Poor showing by both. Reggie needs to step it up in the other drills if he wants to have any chance of being drafted as a CB rather than a safety but it doesn't look good.

princefielder28
04-09-2008, 11:27 AM
Malcolm Kelly took a hit to his stock with that forty

regoob2
04-09-2008, 11:31 AM
I haven't played more than a pickup game in years and I'm pretty sure I could beat 4.77. I think Malcolm Kelly just became a 6th rounder.

Reggie might be a late 2nd if he's very lucky.
That's a bit drastic but I wouldn't touch him in the early or mid first. I think he'll have a Jarrett-esque fall to the mid 2nd.

toonsterwu
04-09-2008, 11:32 AM
If these are true, then I expect Kelly to really plummet, perhaps to the 4th/5th. For Smith, they weren't that stunning, as many had questioned his athletic ability, and he has the "out" of moving to safety or fitting in as a zone scheme corner that should prevent a hard fall, although it could push him from 2nd to maybe 4th as well.

Of course, the major question would be to what degree their injuries impacted them.

CC.SD
04-09-2008, 11:34 AM
That's a bit drastic but I wouldn't touch him in the early or mid first. I think he'll have a Jarrett-esque fall to the mid 2nd.

I don't know, between the knee issues and a slug's 40 time, I don't see how any team can justify him as a first day pick.

Paranoidmoonduck
04-09-2008, 11:35 AM
I have a hard time believing that Kelly would have run in the mid 4.7's if he had sufficient time to train, but this definitely hurts. I still think some team takes a flyer in the 3rd round or so, but he has fallen considerably.

As for Smith, there really wasn't much elevating him above safety prospects like Morgan and Johnson, and now he could even wind up being the 4th or 5th safety drafted.

Scott Wright
04-09-2008, 11:46 AM
I can confirm it was 4.7's for Malcolm Kelly and 4.6's for Reggie Smith.

Round two for both.

regoob2
04-09-2008, 11:48 AM
I can confirm it was 4.7's for Malcolm Kelly and 4.6's for Reggie Smith.

Round two for both.
I can assume they both will blame it on injuries but do you buy that Scott?

terribletowel39
04-09-2008, 11:49 AM
I can confirm it was 4.7's for Malcolm Kelly and 4.6's for Reggie Smith.

Round two for both.
You still think Kelly will go in the second?? I realize 40's are overrated but 4.7 that is slow as hell for a WR.

Scott Wright
04-09-2008, 11:51 AM
I can assume they both will blame it on injuries but do you buy that Scott?

I'm not buying it. Kelly's agent said in the last day or so he expected him to run sub-4.5 but I think people would have been more surprised at that than they are with the high-4.6 / low-4.7

The fact is Kelly didn't receive a first round grade from the NFL and his coaches at Oklahoma told him round three. Malcolm Kelly going Top 10 was internet hype. I wrote about it in my blog a month or two ago and I know my buddy Matt Bitonti over at Draft Daddy has been saying it for even longer than that.

Maybe the Bengals will take him after all... in round two or three.

Geo
04-09-2008, 11:52 AM
I was suspecting as much, although not that bad a time for Kelly.

Scott probably has it right though, they could be snatched up in the second round still. Although if the health issues on Kelly's knees are legit, maybe that drops him more.

art vandelay
04-09-2008, 11:53 AM
http://www.responsiblelending.org/images/stock-down-arrow.jpg

There goes Kelly and Smith's stock...

theogt
04-09-2008, 11:53 AM
I can assume they both will blame it on injuries but do you buy that Scott?For what it's worth, the guy that reported these numbers is close with the OU program and claims that Kelly was never hurt. Says he wasn't even hurt before the bowl game.

Disclaimer: Remember to take your grain of salt before believing what you read on the interwebs.

Geo
04-09-2008, 11:55 AM
You get a sense for guys trying to delay the inevitable sometimes.

Or in LenWhale's case, not run at all.

schmiddog
04-09-2008, 11:55 AM
Shocked at Kelly's time, to say the least-hard to rationalize unless the injury is more or less the sole explanatory factor-which I suppose could be the case. His vert and BG seem to indicate this, too-they just seem too low.

To say he's going to plummet into the 4th, 5th, or 6th is ludicrous though. 3rd at worst, probably 2nd. I still wouldn't hesitate to nab him in the 1st-kid is an athlete and a half out there on the football field.

schmiddog
04-09-2008, 11:59 AM
Also, on Brandt's NFL.com report, he says Kelly "looked very good"...the only player blurb he concludes with a complementary statement. I assume this would have to mean in position drills

regoob2
04-09-2008, 12:01 PM
You get a sense for guys trying to delay the inevitable sometimes.

Or in LenWhale's case, not run at all.Do you think it would have been better for him not to run at all??

bitonti
04-09-2008, 12:03 PM
jeez those times suck

regoob2
04-09-2008, 12:03 PM
Does anyone have his short shuttle time??

schmiddog
04-09-2008, 12:07 PM
Does anyone have his short shuttle time??

Here's Brandt's blurb: WR Malcolm Kelly (6-3 7/8, 227): Ran the 40 in 4.75 and 4.68, had a 32-inch vertical jump, 9-foot, 9-inch long jump, 4.24 short shuttle, 7.00 cone drill, and ran position drills. Kelly looked very good.

the rest of the results are here :http://www.nfl.com/draft/story;jsessionid=9E735787C3043CAB36028954D0F208CB? id=09000d5d806b4a39&template=with-video&confirm=true

Forenci
04-09-2008, 12:08 PM
I'm not buying it. Kelly's agent said in the last day or so he expected him to run sub-4.5 but I think people would have been more surprised at that than they are with the high-4.6 / low-4.7

The fact is Kelly didn't receive a first round grade from the NFL and his coaches at Oklahoma told him round three. Malcolm Kelly going Top 10 was internet hype. I wrote about it in my blog a month or two ago and I know my buddy Matt Bitonti over at Draft Daddy has been saying it for even longer than that.

Maybe the Bengals will take him after all... in round two or three.

I'm not sure about that drop for Smith. I think if Phillips is gone and Smith is sitting on the board at the end of the first round, I think we pull the trigger on him.

Could be wrong, but if he passes a physical and seems to be in good shape, I don't see us passing on him there.

BoltHype
04-09-2008, 12:10 PM
WOW those are some low numbers...

DeathbyStat
04-09-2008, 12:12 PM
wow i hope the bengals still draft him first round

Thunder&Lightning
04-09-2008, 12:17 PM
This is real dissapointing not sure if id be happy with the Chargers selecting smith now...

Number 10
04-09-2008, 12:18 PM
I love how some guys still weigh a 40 time so damn much.

Smith is going to be a great player in the NFL.

CC.SD
04-09-2008, 12:18 PM
This is real dissapointing not sure if id be happy with the Chargers selecting smith now...

I would say Smith and Phillips are pretty much off AJs board now that's resigned Hart for 5 freaking years. I think Cherilus is the pick.

MidwayMonster31
04-09-2008, 12:21 PM
It's almost certain that Reggie Smith will be drafted as a safety. Kelly could drop further because this can raise more questions about his knees. I would say late 2nd/ early 3rd for Kelly. Smith would probably be better off as a Tampa-2 free safety.

Scott Wright
04-09-2008, 12:24 PM
It won't really hurt Reggie Smith much, it just means he's a safety and not a corner, which I felt anyways. He will remain my #2 rated safety and is a 2nd round pick.

Brent
04-09-2008, 12:46 PM
You'd think Kelly was jogging with a time like that.

BigBlueCrew56
04-09-2008, 12:49 PM
Awfull time by Malcolm Kelly. Very much reminds me of Dwayne Jarrett. Bye Bye Malcolm see you in the 2-3 rd round.

LonghornsLegend
04-09-2008, 12:52 PM
I could pull up about a million quotes from people saying Kelly has more seperation and acceleration then Sweed but I wont even bother, that point has been argued so many times people should remember their stance on that.


With that being said, 4.7 is terrible, if he was still hurt he would of been better off never running a 40 at all then recording that time, he's still a decent fit for a west coast offense, reminds me of Keyshaun Johnson in his latter years.

Canadian_draft_fan
04-09-2008, 01:05 PM
OK, can people now stop giving Kelly to Redskins at pick #21 in their mocks. That pick made me cringe every time. Even though it may be a smokescreen, Vinny has stated that the Redskins see values at WR in the 2nd and 3rd rounds not the 1st. It's possible, but I highly doubt the Redskins go WR in round 1.

holt_bruce81
04-09-2008, 01:28 PM
I really like Malcolm Kelly to.

What a shame, I'd be ecstatic if he's on the board in the 3rd and the Rams haven't addressed their receiver need.

Burns336
04-09-2008, 01:37 PM
Kelly should try to add weight and move to tight end. He wouldn't be much of a blocker but he could fit in the Gates mold of tight ends who split out into the slot.

DEL jzc
04-09-2008, 01:37 PM
Wow, pretty bad 40-yard for Kelly. The 7.00 on the three cone isn't that bad though. He was a polarizing prospect anyhow and this won't change anything.

Anyone know what Michael Irvin ran the 40-yard dash? From my understanding Kelly idolized Irvin and the Cowboy's growing up and their games look similar to me (especially if Kelly learns to push off). I always thought Kelly in Dallas was the best fit and that he would remind Jerry Jones of Irvin a little bit (and could even get them to work together).

I guess pick #28 is too high now for Kelly, but maybe if Dallas trades down...

holt_bruce81
04-09-2008, 01:42 PM
Kelly should try to add weight and move to tight end. He wouldn't be much of a blocker but he could fit in the Gates mold of tight ends who split out into the slot.

Eh, that would be a bad move.

LonghornsLegend
04-09-2008, 01:46 PM
Wow, pretty bad 40-yard for Kelly. The 7.00 on the three cone isn't that bad though. He was a polarizing prospect anyhow and this won't change anything.

Anyone know what Michael Irvin ran the 40-yard dash? From my understanding Kelly idolized Irvin and the Cowboy's growing up and their games look similar to me (especially if Kelly learns to push off). I always thought Kelly in Dallas was the best fit and that he would remind Jerry Jones of Irvin a little bit (and could even get them to work together).

I guess pick #28 is too high now for Kelly, but maybe if Dallas trades down...

I dont think he's a good fit for us at all, I wouldnt even want him with our late 2nd rd pick...Ill take Caldwell, Bennett, or Hawkins over him. He doesnt do much after the catch, but he is essentially the same thing we have with Patrick Crayton, we want a guy with some speed to replace Glenn not another slow possession WR.

Solomon
04-09-2008, 01:49 PM
I love how some guys still weigh a 40 time so damn much.

Smith is going to be a great player in the NFL.

I'm not sure about that...he wasn't a great player in college.

I've been a big fan of Kelly for a long time now. Last year I said he was a better prospect than Manningham (who I also like) and was criticized for it. I'm standing by him as a prospect now, He'll probably be drafted in the 2nd round but he'll turn into a good #1 option in the NFL. Remember Terrell Owens ran a 4.6 40 coming out of college and he's about the same size.

ThePudge
04-09-2008, 01:52 PM
Apparently other than the 40 Kelly looked very good. 32 inch vertical, 4.24 short shuttle, and 7.00 3-Cone Drill are all nice for his size. He is said to have performed very well in the position drills.

brat316
04-09-2008, 01:59 PM
Knee injuries dropped him to bottom first early second. Bad 40 time drops him to late second now.

Adrius Bowman....or Malcolm Kelly....or Marcus Monk

619
04-09-2008, 02:00 PM
This still doesn't take away from Kelly's tremendous ball skills. I agree with the assessment of both Kelly and Smith as second round picks.

theogt
04-09-2008, 02:12 PM
By the way, Kelly weighed in at 232 lbs.

Larry
04-09-2008, 02:36 PM
By the way, Kelly weighed in at 232 lbs.

Wow, Second round is wishful thinking. He'll fall to the third.

Yatta!
04-09-2008, 02:44 PM
Those times are awlful, especially for Kelly. Still I doubt they'll for any further than the 2nd, they're still good players.

Scott Wright
04-09-2008, 02:44 PM
I talked about these results in my blog entry today if anyone is interested:

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/blog/wrightstuff.html

Also, I will be inputting my scouting reports on both Kelly and Smith this Friday.

CC.SD
04-09-2008, 02:57 PM
I talked about these results in my blog entry today if anyone is interested:

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/blog/wrightstuff.html

Also, I will be inputting my scouting reports on both Kelly and Smith this Friday.

Good read, but I just don't see Kelly making the second round with knee issues, weight issues, and a poor 40 time.

lordquas
04-09-2008, 02:57 PM
with kellys slowass forty time he drops to #5 on my receivers list

San Diego Chicken
04-09-2008, 03:24 PM
Kelly seems like Robert Meachem, except way slower. Same weight gain and lingering knee injuries. 40 times are overrated for WR's, but he was already a risky prospect.

brat316
04-09-2008, 03:36 PM
Kelly seems like Robert Meachem, except way slower. Same weight gain and lingering knee injuries. 40 times are overrated for WR's, but he was already a risky prospect.

40s are overrates for a WR, but then again Jerry Rice's and Chad Johnsons games types where pretty damn good. And I don't know anything about Kelly's game type. So I can't jump to conclusions saying he sucks or he is good.

MetSox17
04-09-2008, 03:40 PM
Who's the Dwayne Jarrett now?

These times were atrocious, so there's no way either of them sniff the first round. Reggie Smith is the only one that has an actual shot
of going on the first day, and as far as Malcolm Kelly's times and injury concerns, i'd be surprised if anyone even takes a chance in the 3rd.

Bad for the Cowboys though cause now it's a pretty sure thing that the Bills will nab a CB instead

LonghornsLegend
04-09-2008, 04:37 PM
Reports are in his positions drills he "didnt look very good", and he said he ran a slower time because Oklahoma didnt tell him they were using field turf and he had been practicing on astro turf all week...So he didnt use his injuries as an excuse which makes it even worse, Jarrett ran a 4.67, so to see him run a 4.75 is a long ways off, so much for him being faster and more explosive then Sweed.

Larry121283
04-09-2008, 04:38 PM
I still like Kelly, but that 40 actually hurt. Maybe the guy that lost the most money in the off-season.

mid-late second rounder...I did have him in that late first-early second round area (not a big fan of any WRs as first rounders this year).

There aren't many guys that I think really kill themselves with a workout (nor overly improve stock) but this year, Kelly will drop a bit on draft day.

I still think he'll be a good player.

P-L
04-09-2008, 04:44 PM
Reports are in his positions drills he "didnt look very good", and he said he ran a slower time because Oklahoma didnt tell him they were using field turf and he had been practicing on astro turf all week...So he didnt use his injuries as an excuse which makes it even worse, Jarrett ran a 4.67, so to see him run a 4.75 is a long ways off, so much for him being faster and more explosive then Sweed.
Didn't Gil Brandt just report that he looked very good in positional drills?

Big_Pete
04-09-2008, 04:45 PM
Is Reggie Smith 100% back from his toe injury??

It doesn't hurt Smith that much, the safety class is still pretty week.

toonsterwu
04-09-2008, 04:46 PM
The reason I think Kelly might fall a bit more than late 2nd comes down to the injury. Now, if this was just, well, for lack of a better term, a fake out, to buy him time, then late 2nd would be my guess as well. But if the injury has any truth to it, then I could see him slide a bit. After all ... say you are a WCO team. Is Kelly more intriguing than say, a Jordy Nelson?

Addict
04-09-2008, 04:47 PM
Didn't Gil Brandt just report that he looked very good in positional drills?

aren't those drills choreographed very carefully?

toonsterwu
04-09-2008, 04:48 PM
aren't those drills choreographed very carefully?

even if they are, Kelly did show good agility numbers, which was key, as he was being viewed as a WCO and some questioned if he could separate consistently.

That said, Mike Williams had good agility numbers as well.

cdub11
04-09-2008, 04:49 PM
i heard he looked good in drills, but that 40 time is awful

BamaFalcon59
04-09-2008, 04:50 PM
I talked about these results in my blog entry today if anyone is interested:

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/blog/wrightstuff.html

Also, I will be inputting my scouting reports on both Kelly and Smith this Friday.

Good thing you delayed the mock draft. It would have been inaccurate or dated had you had Malcolm Kelly still going in the top 20.

Also, do you think it would help or hurt their stocks if they did not run the forty yard dash at all?

They could just go to Virginia Tech. and run on their track...lol.

BamaFalcon59
04-09-2008, 04:52 PM
Okay, so now I am faster than Jeff Otah and slower than Malcolm Kelly. Cool.

LonghornsLegend
04-09-2008, 04:55 PM
Didn't Gil Brandt just report that he looked very good in positional drills?

Your right, I read the report off roto and read it wrong...His vertical leap was decent, but his broad jump was very unimpressive.


But I mean if Jarrett goes late round 2, with the college production he had, and a high 4.6, how does Kelly go before him with a track record in college thats less impressive, a slower 40 time, and medical issues that Jarrett never had? Maybe he goes higher because of a weak WR class but im not sure.

MetSox17
04-09-2008, 05:10 PM
Your right, I read the report off roto and read it wrong...His vertical leap was decent, but his broad jump was very unimpressive.


But I mean if Jarrett goes late round 2, with the college production he had, and a high 4.6, how does Kelly go before him with a track record in college thats less impressive, a slower 40 time, and medical issues that Jarrett never had? Maybe he goes higher because of a weak WR class but im not sure.

I don't think Kelly sees the first day, honestly.
I mean wasn't it established already that more than a handful of teams
were just gonna stay completely away from this guy because of his knees??

The 40 time shows no explosiveness, so it makes him no different than Rashaun Woods.. err Adarius Bowman, who had more production on a less talented team.

Edit - If he still goes before Mario Manningham i'm gonna choke myself.

CARDIAC CAT 7
04-09-2008, 05:30 PM
His 40 Time is being blown way out of proportion. On NFL.com they reported Kelly actually ran a 4.68 on one attempt. No one was going to draft him to be a deep threat, even before his workout. He a big, physical wideout who actually showed some unexpected agility (4.24 Shuttle, just as good as almost every "speedy" wideout this year). I still cant see him dropping to the 3rd Round, his size and upside is just to great to pass up.

lordquas
04-09-2008, 05:35 PM
how does adarius bowman slip all the way to 36 because of his 40 time. but kelly will likely stay in the top 5.. bowmans a beasttttttttttttttt

MetSox17
04-09-2008, 05:41 PM
His 40 Time is being blown way out of proportion. On NFL.com they reported Kelly actually ran a 4.68 on one attempt. No one was going to draft him to be a deep threat, even before his workout. He a big, physical wideout who actually showed some unexpected agility (4.24 Shuttle, just as good as almost every "speedy" wideout this year). I still cant see him dropping to the 3rd Round, his size and upside is just to great to pass up.

You realize that his upside is very well at risk with those injury concerns no one is 100% sure on??

His short shuttle and broad jump would have been the slowest from all combine WR workouts.

Wasn't all that impressed with his 32 inch vertical either. Shoot, i have a 29 inch vertical right now and I don't workout for a living.

Scott Wright
04-09-2008, 05:56 PM
how does adarius bowman slip all the way to 36 because of his 40 time. but kelly will likely stay in the top 5.. bowmans a beasttttttttttttttt

Malcolm Kelly didn't go to the Senior Bowl and drop everything in sight or get picked up twice for marijuana possession, the second time being within the last week.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Adarius Bowman went undrafted.

CARDIAC CAT 7
04-09-2008, 06:02 PM
You realize that his upside is very well at risk with those injury concerns no one is 100% sure on??

His short shuttle and broad jump would have been the slowest from all combine WR workouts.

Wasn't all that impressed with his 32 inch vertical either. Shoot, i have a 29 inch vertical right now and I don't workout for a living.

Upside has no correlation with injury history, upside simply means his ceiling has yet to be reached. Upside is purley speculation, and 4.24 Short Shuttle is a great time in the short shuttle are you kidding me!!!

Short Shuttle Times for My Top 10 Wideouts:
1. D. Thomas , 4.26
2. L. Sweed , 4.33
3. D. Jackson , 4.19
4. D. Avery , 3.91
5. M. Kelly , 4.24 (at 232 lbs., 15 pounds heavier than the next closest guy)
6. E. Doucet , (Didnt run shuttle)
7. E. Bennett , 4.22
8. J. Hardy , 4.20
9. A. Caldwell , 4.11
10. M. Manningham , 4.27

MetSox17
04-09-2008, 06:15 PM
I didn't say it wasn't a good time, all i said is that they would have been last
at the combine, and i'm right.

LonghornsLegend
04-09-2008, 06:29 PM
Its just funny that now 40 times dont matter all of a sudden, but before had I told anyone that he would run a high 4.6 everybody would of said he would never get seperation that way...I still think he will be a good WR, but more in the mold of an Ernest Wilford type, he didnt strike me as an explosive guy on film running routes or with the ball in his hands, I dont expect that from him at the next level...


Yes 40 times are overrated but that time is a little TOO slow for my likes, Marques Colston ran a 4.55 last year and he was considered by everyone "too slow to get seperation", same thing with Jarrett, and any other WR thats ever run that slow.

Add to the fact like Metsox said the report had already broke about teams removing him from their draft board completely, Id still be pretty surprised at him being taken on the first day.

BaLLiN
04-09-2008, 06:46 PM
» DB Reggie Smith (6-0 1/8, 192): Ran the 40 in 4.65 and 4.61, had a 39 ˝-inch vertical jump, 10-foot, 9-inch long jump, 4.03 short shuttle, 6.70 cone drill, ran position drills.

id put more emphasis on the short shuttle, which is good. As a safety you dont need elite speed because you dont have to one on one matchup most of the time, and are already way behind the line of scrimmage.

Nice jumping ability, nice explosion. i don't know how to grade cone drills, but pretty much it doesnt change a thing for me on Smith.

I predicted a 4.55, he ran a 4.61 as his best, thats not a huge difference, and his short shuttle makes me feel really good about this because last year most of our drafted players ran good short shuttles (top 5 in their position).

lordquas
04-09-2008, 07:46 PM
Malcolm Kelly didn't go to the Senior Bowl and drop everything in sight or get picked up twice for marijuana possession, the second time being within the last week.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Adarius Bowman went undrafted.


your right. but put aside the weed. skillwise i still think skillwise and potential wise their about equal.

Sportsfan486
04-09-2008, 07:58 PM
i don't know how to grade cone drills, but pretty much it doesnt change a thing for me on Smith.

6.7 cone is very strong. It would have been the top result at the combine for defensive backs and tied with one player for 4th highest overall. You're looking for under a 7.0 as a decent/good result.

It doesn't receive as much press because there can be a huge difference in times as it's the longest of the primary drills and pretty challenging. But it is a very important drill that measures balance and agility.

BamaFalcon59
04-09-2008, 08:05 PM
your right. but put aside the weed. skillwise i still think skillwise and potential wise their about equal.

Aqib 'Weed' Talib.

Courtesy of Scott Wright, haha.

yourfavestoner
04-09-2008, 08:11 PM
Aqib 'Weed' Talib.

Courtesy of Scott Wright, haha.

People will always hate on the chronic.

BamaFalcon59
04-09-2008, 08:14 PM
People will always hate on the chronic.

It's not hating, just rhyming. I liked the name Aqib Talib, but Aqib 'Weed' Talib is pretty good as well.

MetSox17
04-09-2008, 08:24 PM
Anyone else with me in thinking that Marcus Monk will be taken before Malcolm Kelly now?

TheBuffaloBills
04-09-2008, 08:30 PM
Man...... I am really curious to where he gets picked. If the Bills were to draft him, I really dont know how I would feel.

regoob2
04-09-2008, 08:39 PM
Anyone else with me in thinking that Marcus Monk will be taken before Malcolm Kelly now?
I doubt it.

BaLLiN
04-09-2008, 08:44 PM
Anyone else with me in thinking that Marcus Monk will be taken before Malcolm Kelly now?

ummm im gonna go ahead and say thats a consensus no

MetSox17
04-09-2008, 08:52 PM
*Retrieve! Retrieve!!*

lordquas
04-09-2008, 08:53 PM
i could see donnie avery and earl bennett gettin ahead of kelly. ohh yeaa i could

BaLLiN
04-09-2008, 09:00 PM
i could see donnie avery and earl bennett gettin ahead of kelly. ohh yeaa i could

yea i could see that, but i still think Kelly is going in the 2nd round

MetSox17
04-09-2008, 09:03 PM
yea i could see that, but i still think Kelly is going in the 2nd round

really?
and who in the 2nd round would have the value of drafting a big, slow WR with bigger injury concerns than anyone else that's gonna go ahead of him?

LonghornsLegend
04-09-2008, 09:07 PM
i could see donnie avery and earl bennett gettin ahead of kelly. ohh yeaa i could

I like both guys alot, but Avery im really high on, he looked exceptional at his pro day and has that elite speed, those guys will probably go ahead of Kelly with no problem because their stock was fairly high and Kelly falling bumps them up, I could see Bennett go off the board as early as Denver's 2nd round pick, and Avery early 2nd...Id love if Avery did last until the Cowboys picked in the 2nd though.

BaLLiN
04-09-2008, 09:25 PM
really?
and who in the 2nd round would have the value of drafting a big, slow WR with bigger injury concerns than anyone else that's gonna go ahead of him?

well he played more than alright on the field, so the time really doesnt matter to me as i thought he'd be a possesion reciever anyway.

Sniper
04-09-2008, 09:27 PM
Upside has no correlation with injury history, upside simply means his ceiling has yet to be reached. Upside is purley speculation, and 4.24 Short Shuttle is a great time in the short shuttle are you kidding me!!!

Short Shuttle Times for My Top 10 Wideouts:
1. D. Thomas , 4.26
2. L. Sweed , 4.33
3. D. Jackson , 4.19
4. D. Avery , 3.91
5. M. Kelly , 4.24 (at 232 lbs., 15 pounds heavier than the next closest guy)
6. E. Doucet , (Didnt run shuttle)
7. E. Bennett , 4.22
8. J. Hardy , 4.20
9. A. Caldwell , 4.11
10. M. Manningham , 4.27

Early Doucet ahead of people that can actually do something useful is laughable....

Paranoidmoonduck
04-09-2008, 09:39 PM
Early Doucet ahead of people that can actually do something useful is laughable....

I would argue that not a single wide receivers in that top ten list offers as much blocking value or as consistent route running. Doucet is being seriously undervalued as we draw closer to draft day. He's a quality wideout.

Flyboy
04-09-2008, 09:43 PM
I'd be happy if the Saints took Smith in round two.

toonsterwu
04-09-2008, 09:45 PM
Early Doucet is arguably the most ready to come in and make an impact, with his blocking, and in the passing game. His lack of speed just means that he's a number 2 instead of having any lead potential, which may drop Doucet into the late 2nd/early 3rd.

toonsterwu
04-09-2008, 09:45 PM
I'd be happy if the Saints took Smith in round two.

I'd think Tyrell Johnson in the 2nd or Josh Barrett in the 3rd makes more sense as strong safeties to pair with Josh Bullocks.

Gchu83
04-09-2008, 09:48 PM
Sources have told us the decision to make a last minute switch to the location of the forty was a big surprise to the players at the work out. Those who performed in front of scouts today had been practicing and working out on the astro-turf they were told they would be working out on.

When the announcement of the switch to the slower field turf was made a number of players called their agents to get instructions as to whether or not they should run.

Sources on the scene told us it was not Oklahoma’s decision to make the switch. Rather a scout from the Tennessee Titans got rather vocal before the workout and strongly suggested the switch to the field turf.

The melee we described earlier continued long after the workout as several agents on hand (agents were not allowed into the workout) were very upset.

Times we had from today’s workout include:

Malcolm Kelly: 4.71
Joe Jon Finley: 4.80
Reggie Smith: 4.64
Marcus Walker: 4.63

http://tfydraft.com/news.php?newsID=112

Big_Pete
04-09-2008, 09:55 PM
Is Reggie Smith completely over his toe injury that caused him to miss the Fiesta Bowl and the Scouting Combine?

Those type of injuries can take some time to be completely over

BamaFalcon59
04-09-2008, 10:07 PM
I think Reggie Smith has some real playmaking ability. Ed Reed similar, although not quite the game changer.

Sportsfan486
04-09-2008, 10:16 PM
Sources have told us the decision to make a last minute switch to the location of the forty was a big surprise to the players at the work out. Those who performed in front of scouts today had been practicing and working out on the astro-turf they were told they would be working out on.

When the announcement of the switch to the slower field turf was made a number of players called their agents to get instructions as to whether or not they should run.

Sources on the scene told us it was not Oklahoma’s decision to make the switch. Rather a scout from the Tennessee Titans got rather vocal before the workout and strongly suggested the switch to the field turf.
http://tfydraft.com/news.php?newsID=112

I hope we learn more about this.. sounds like a really messed up situation. Why is a scout from a NFL team bitching about the location of the 40 time? Why are the Oklahoma people allowing it to change to a less conductive surface and potentially screwing their players out of millions?

MetSox17
04-09-2008, 10:30 PM
I hope we learn more about this.. sounds like a really messed up situation. Why is a scout from a NFL team bitching about the location of the 40 time? Why are the Oklahoma people allowing it to change to a less conductive surface and potentially screwing their players out of millions?

That's exactly what i was thinking if that's really what happened. Who the hell cares what one scout has to say about the workout that YOU planned. It's ridiculous that the coaches and agents would have let this happen, if i was working for one of these kids i would have cussed that s.o.b out of the field before i had my guy run on something different from what he had been practicing on.

That's like preparing all week for the Steelers, then on game day you have to play the Patriots. It's stupid that this happened if that's how it went down.

Sportsfan486
04-09-2008, 10:44 PM
It's ridiculous that the coaches and agents would have let this happen

Just as a note, agents weren't allowed into the workout and were SEVERELY pissed off when they found out. Apparently the players called them to see if they should still run.

Kelly's agent threw a huge fit after the workout and apparently is now permanently banned from going there.

Flyboy
04-09-2008, 10:55 PM
I'd think Tyrell Johnson in the 2nd or Josh Barrett in the 3rd makes more sense as strong safeties to pair with Josh Bullocks.

I meant getting rid of Josh Bullocks.

MetSox17
04-09-2008, 10:56 PM
Just as a note, agents weren't allowed into the workout and were SEVERELY pissed off when they found out. Apparently the players called them to see if they should still run.

Kelly's agent threw a huge fit after the workout and apparently is now permanently banned from going there.

Again, another thing that i don't understand.

The players' biggest and most important lawyer NEEDS to be present so stuff like that doesn't go down. I can understand why they still ran, seeing as they would have looked like douche bags if they just refused not to, but again, why would they agree to testing on a new surface. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Sniper
04-09-2008, 10:58 PM
I would argue that not a single wide receivers in that top ten list offers as much blocking value or as consistent route running. Doucet is being seriously undervalued as we draw closer to draft day. He's a quality wideout.

Is he? He was a quality slot guy behind two big studs, but he did NOTHING this year to warrant a round 1-3 grade.

LonghornsLegend
04-09-2008, 11:11 PM
Is he? He was a quality slot guy behind two big studs, but he did NOTHING this year to warrant a round 1-3 grade.

I still see him having a very solid pro career, he has excellent hands, runs great routes, and has great game speed once he catches the ball...I dont think he deserves to be drafted in the 2nd round, but I still feel like he has a great chance to be better then most of the guys drafted ahead of him.

kwilk103
04-09-2008, 11:20 PM
http://oklahoma.rivals.com/video.asp?section=football&sid=895&vidtype=publisher&vidid=4040


interview with kelly

said he wanted to run on astro turf, but the strength staff made him run on something else (field turf?); said he was runnin in the 4.5s on astro turf with a high of 4.47

kwilk103
04-09-2008, 11:22 PM
Former OU receiver Kelly angry at Sooner coach after today's workout

by: John E. Hoover, World Sports Writer
4/9/2008 12:00 AM

NORMAN -- Oklahoma wide receiver Malcolm Kelly wasn't happy with his 40 times during his workouts for NFL scouts on Wednesday.

Afterwards, he wasn't happy with OU, specifically strength coach Jerry Schmidt.

Kelly ran with Reggie Smith, Marcus Walker and Joe Jon Finley inside OU's Everest Training Center, which has a soft FieldTurf-type surface. Kelly, who has been injured since the team's Fiesta Bowl practices in December, had been unable to run for scouts before Wednesday and has been training in Atlanta for three months on a shorter, firmer AstroTurf-type surface.

Kelly said he was assured by Schmidt that he would be allowed to run on OU's other indoor facility, the indoor track infield's AstroTurf.

Instead, Kelly ran on the softer turf and, although there was no official time, NFL.com is reporting Kelly's time as 4.68, said NFL.com writer Gil Brandt. Another independent watch had Kelly at 4.68, but a random check of various teams' scouting sheets showed Kelly's best time ranging from 4.49 to 4.81.

Afterwards, Kelly complained loudly about his situation and was later seen arguing with Schmidt, pointing his finger, waving his hands and even twice throwing shoes he held in his hands. They finished their conversation behind closed doors and Kelly said ''we settled it,'' but he was still visibly upset.

Kelly said at the NFL Scouting Combine in February that he was told if he could run 4.55 or faster at OU, he could be a top-15 pick in the NFL Draft on April 26. Now, he acknowledged that some teams might be scared off by his slow times.

Kelly said he recently ran 4.50 and 4.47 on a firmer surface in Atlanta.

In football terms, the difference in Kelly's times in Atlanta and his times in Norman is vast. In regards to whether Kelly is drafted in the middle of the first round or the end of the first round, the difference could mean millions of dollars in a contract or a signing bonus.

''This is my life. You know what I'm saying?'' Kelly said. ''This ain't no school. This ain't no classroom. This ain't got nothing to do with that. This has to do with me; my family. This is what I do. I play football. And I'm supposed to come out here and run as fast as I can. I already had everything set up for where I want to do it at. I get out here and it's a whole different deal.''

Kelly said he'd researched the results of past wide receivers like Mike Williams, Larry Fitzgerald and Braylon Edwards and found that many ran for scouts either on AstroTurf or a track.

Schmidt said scouts will add .1 to .15 seconds to a 40 time, depending on the team, if they perceive a track to be too fast.

But Kelly said he had been told more than once by scouts that they wouldn't be adding time regardless of the surface.

''So that's what I get listening to everybody else,'' he said.

Schmidt said he understood Kelly's frustration because he's been injured for so long. But Schmidt also said NFL scouts preferred Kelly run on the softer surface because ''this is the surface that they run on.

''I told Malcolm it's up to him, wherever he wants to run.''

''That's true,'' Kelly said, ''it was already settled we were going to run on that AstroTurf stuff. But as soon as we walk in here this morning, the cones are set up to run the 40 in here.''

Kelly didn't save all his displeasure for Schmidt, either. He also had some pointed words for the OU medical staff about his Fiesta Bowl injury, which was first reported on the day of the game as a pulled thigh muscle but was later determined to be a tear. Kelly practiced sparingly leading up to the game, then played just one series.

''At the bowl game, people were questioning was I trying to not play so I could leave early for the draft and all that kind of stuff,'' Kelly said. ''I was told by the staff I had a thigh bruise. I told them it felt a lot worse than that. 'No, it's not that bad; go out there and run; it's not a thigh tear, it's just a thigh bruise.' Kept trying to run; never did get any better. Didn't play in the game, so I finally went out there training and it never got any better. I went and got an MRI and I've got a thigh tear.

''So what if I would he went out there and tried to play in the bowl game and went out there and tried to run full speed? Then where would I be right now? Nowhere. Sitting at home, still rehabbing. Back here for another season. You know what I'm saying?

''People say to always trust in what they're saying, they're not going to steer you wrong. But. . . .''

Asked if he felt let down by OU, he said, ''I wouldn't say the whole coaching staff, but certain people, yeah. . . . And they know who they are.''

Kelly is a junior from Longview, Texas, who declared himself eligible for the draft after three years as one of the Sooners' most prolific wideouts. He's rated by many draft services as the top wideout in the draft.

''You play somewhere for three years, you give 'em all you got, every summer, every winter, and all you ask for is an hour and a half to have it like you want to have it. And people got a problem with it

MetSox17
04-09-2008, 11:41 PM
damn man, gotta feel for the dude.
that's gonna cost him millions on millions

ChezPower4
04-10-2008, 12:25 AM
If these are true, then I expect Kelly to really plummet, perhaps to the 4th/5th. For Smith, they weren't that stunning, as many had questioned his athletic ability, and he has the "out" of moving to safety or fitting in as a zone scheme corner that should prevent a hard fall, although it could push him from 2nd to maybe 4th as well.

Of course, the major question would be to what degree their injuries impacted them.

I really don't see him falling that far. His times really hurt his stock but going from possably the 11th overall pick to the Bills, to the fourth or 5th round is just not gonna happen. He could have ran poorly because he's not fully over his injury. Kelly can make plays and has great size, he definately ran himself out of the first round but i think teams will start looking at him in the mid to late second and he wont make it out of the 3rd round.

LonghornsLegend
04-10-2008, 12:35 AM
Kelly wont be drafted on the first day, but early 3rd seems right because somebody will want to take that risk on him...Smith is still a fringe 1st rounder, early 2nd rd guy, and his vertical and broad jump were impressive as well, and someone mentioned he does have a knack for the ball...Its not a deep safety class so he wont and shouldnt slide far, but him being looked at as a CB is probably out of the question now.

Iamcanadian
04-10-2008, 07:35 AM
Looks like round 3 or lower for Kelly. The reason they had him run on the other track is because that is the same surface they have at the combine. Pro scouts and GM's aren't interested in inflated times posted on super fast tracks.
As for Smith, I don't think he was hurt at all. For most systems he'll be a FS and for a Cover 2 team, he still looks like a pretty solid CB. 4.61 isn't super fast but he also ran the fastest cone and short shuttle drill over any DB who ran at the combine with a good vertical.

keylime_5
04-10-2008, 08:17 AM
I'm sure that Malcolm Kelly would've run below a 4.6 had he been healthy, but the fact that he's hurt a lot is why he's gonna drop, not necissarily that bat 40 time. If he can stay healthy in the pros, then Malcolm Kelly will be the next Boldin or Colston imo.

LonghornsLegend
04-10-2008, 09:08 AM
I'm sure that Malcolm Kelly would've run below a 4.6 had he been healthy, but the fact that he's hurt a lot is why he's gonna drop, not necissarily that bat 40 time. If he can stay healthy in the pros, then Malcolm Kelly will be the next Boldin or Colston imo.

He actually didnt say anything about him still being hurt in his interviews.


As far as Boldin, no, not even close to being similiar....Colston yes ive said him all along, except for the fact that Colston ran a 4.55 and was perceived to be too slow by nearly everyone...And we have no idea how fast Kelly really was, Adarius Bowman plays at about the same speed as Kelly if not faster and he ran a high 4.6 fully healthy, Kelly is 232 lbs, 4.6 is probably accurate for a guy his size.

Addict
04-10-2008, 10:13 AM
Article on NFL.com

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d807adeab&template=with-video&confirm=true

DEL jzc
04-10-2008, 10:22 AM
I dont think he's a good fit for us at all, I wouldnt even want him with our late 2nd rd pick...Ill take Caldwell, Bennett, or Hawkins over him. He doesnt do much after the catch, but he is essentially the same thing we have with Patrick Crayton, we want a guy with some speed to replace Glenn not another slow possession WR.

I'm not a Cowboy's fan (far from it), but I never got the impression Glenn was a typical Cowboys receiver, or one Jerry Jones looked at as "prototypical". Glenn was a Parcells guy all the way and I'm not 100% sure Jones thinks that's the way to go for another receiver.

I think Jones still has the ideal receiver duo as his old Irvin/Harper tandem and they were both tall and physical.

And to immediately put Kelly into the "slow and possesion receiver" category seems a jump. The guy still had 21 TD's and a 15.9 YPC average in college. And his film was explosive and had YAC.

I just don't think small and fast is what you guys should be looking for as Owen's career winds down and Crayton solidifies the #3 spot. Kelly still seems like a good match to me in Dallas. And a plan to trade down with one of their 1st round picks and draft all three of their need positions (CB, RB, WR) seems very viable to me.

As your mock draft indicates, getting someone like Cason in round 1, trading down and getting Kelly early in round 2 and Chris Johnson middle of round 2 seems like an ideal draft and would make your team pretty solid at those positions. Especially because I don't think Pacman Jones is playing football this season at all.

Just a third party observation.

Paul
04-10-2008, 11:05 AM
I think Jones still has the ideal receiver duo as his old Irvin/Harper tandem and they were both tall and physical.

And to immediately put Kelly into the "slow and possesion receiver" category seems a jump. The guy still had 21 TD's and a 15.9 YPC average in college. And his film was explosive and had YAC.

I just don't think small and fast is what you guys should be looking for as Owen's career winds down and Crayton solidifies the #3 spot. Kelly still seems like a good match to me in Dallas. And a plan to trade down with one of their 1st round picks and draft all three of their need positions (CB, RB, WR) seems very viable to me.


Well Alvin and Irvin were pretty much Jimmy's guys, with Irvin coming from the U of course. But if you look at the receivers Jerry brought in the last 10 years or so, they are mostly speed guys. When Harper left, we got Kevin Williams who was one of those speedy types to replace him. And when Michael left, we tried to bring in guys like Rahib Ismail to help Troy out. We even traded two 1st round picks for Joey Galloway. And most recently we drafted Antonio Bryant who was smaller in stature. So If anything, pattern shows JJ prefers those kind of receivers.

Not that Jerry doesn't enjoy having a guy like TO on the team now of course.

Turtlepower
04-10-2008, 11:08 AM
Well Alvin and Irvin were pretty much Jimmy's guys, with Irvin coming from the U of course. But if you look at the receivers Jerry brought in the last 10 years or so, they are mostly speed guys. When Harper left, we got Kevin Williams who was one of those speedy types to replace him. And when Michael left, we tried to bring in guys like Rahib Ismail to help Troy out. We even traded two 1st round picks for Joey Galloway. And most recently we drafted Antonio Bryant who was smaller in stature. So If anything, pattern shows JJ prefers those kind of receivers.

Not that Jerry doesn't enjoy having a guy like TO on the team now of course.

I think he likes to draft more speedy guys and then sign veteran possession receivers (Terry Glenn and Keyshawn Johnson).

CC.SD
04-10-2008, 01:11 PM
Kelly should stop whining and get to work. All the money's in the second contract anyway.

Shere Khan
04-10-2008, 01:20 PM
Kelly should stop whining and get to work. All the money's in the second contract anyway.

You'd be whining too, if these circumstances happened to you.


These athletes are 'waiting on this moment for all their lives', and to casually dismiss it as whining is a huge oversight on your part.

Just like that, his stock dropped and he's possibly lost millions of dollars.

cdub11
04-10-2008, 01:22 PM
i think kelly slides to late 2nd or 3rd, i dont think the time hurt reggie as bad, all it really means is he is playing S instead of corner and i think most people liked him at S anyway, i think he goes somewhere in the 2nd

Scott Wright
04-10-2008, 01:29 PM
http://oklahoma.rivals.com/video.asp?section=football&sid=895&vidtype=publisher&vidid=4040


interview with kelly

said he wanted to run on astro turf, but the strength staff made him run on something else (field turf?); said he was runnin in the 4.5s on astro turf with a high of 4.47

And how many teams play on Astroturf these days?

This is a terrible excuse and Kelly is just hurting himself more by whining.

WCH
04-10-2008, 03:54 PM
Scouts have been questioning Kelly's speed from the get-go. Over at draftdaddy.com they just posted a link that's 11 months old, where an anonymous scout gives him a 2nd/3rd round grade and questions his speed, saying "I'm hoping he's faster than Jarrett Hicks. I'm worried that he's going to time poorly."

Also, whoever those scouts were who supposedly said that they wouldn't adjust his time, no matter what surface he ran on: they lied. I'm not sure why they would even tell him that. Maybe a historically lousy team (Cardinals?) hasn't caught on to the fact that some surfaces are faster than others and that this can skew times; but even generic scouting services such as GM Jr. and Ourlads have taken to making adjustments for players who run on fast tracks.