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BeerBaron
04-09-2008, 03:38 PM
http://www.miamiherald.com/614/story/489210.html

jake that is.

what do you think the odds are now that its jake over chris?

JagHombre22
04-09-2008, 03:41 PM
I think there's a very good chance they go Jake Long, I think it depends on who they can get a better deal with actually...

toonsterwu
04-09-2008, 03:45 PM
Okay, this won't make much sense, but my honest answer is that the chances of Jake Long isn't any higher or lower than before, and I'm still not sold it's Jake. There is no way, IMO, that the Dolphins would leak this out this early. This is ridiculously early. Of course, as with everything draft related, there is a caveat, and perhaps they are hoping he takes a below contract deal. But for this information to get out this early, from an organization that is tight lipped? I find it very suspicious to say the least. Not saying they won't go Jake, but this feels like an effort to try and convince someone to swap up, perhaps even the Rams, who many have rumored are intrigued with Jake, perhaps the Chiefs.

There was a report somewhere that suggested they were going to open negotiations with Jake, Chris, Glenn, and Matt.

Ah, it was the Jason Cole article, but he's since updated it to acknowledge for the Herald report on Jake.

brat316
04-09-2008, 03:45 PM
It all depends on who comes cheaper who they don't have to give 30 million gureenuted. I wonder if they will take 25 million.

I think its a race between the Longs

Addict
04-09-2008, 03:48 PM
this screams 'smokescreen' at me. No way they'll leak THIS fast. I think they're hoping KC will bite or something

Young Legend
04-09-2008, 03:49 PM
Take it with a grain of salt.. Dolphins just doing there job..

princefielder28
04-09-2008, 03:58 PM
I personally think this is just Bill Parcells being a very smart executive. If Jake is their guy then they are starting early to make sure that they will have a deal hammered out come draft day and they wouldn't have to deal with a holdout. If there is in fact little interest in selecting Jake, but they try and make it seem as if he's their guy, then that forces other teams in the Top 5 who have interest in Jake to think about trading up.

TheGreatEscape
04-09-2008, 04:04 PM
Responsibility is a heavy responsibility.

It's parcells' responsibility to make a trade market for his pick.

DeathbyStat
04-09-2008, 04:13 PM
It depends on agents but I could see Jake Long taking less money then Chris

umphrey
04-09-2008, 04:13 PM
I really think the pick is Jake. I doubt they draft Chris if they see him as an end, and I don't think he would be worthy as a 3-4 LB either. That brings Gholston into the discussion but is he worthy of a #1 pick?

I think it really comes down to the fact that Miami will want to build up the trenches to start their rebuilding process, and they start with Jake.

Addict
04-09-2008, 04:14 PM
I really think the pick is Jake. I doubt they draft Chris if they see him as an end, and I don't think he would be worthy as a 3-4 LB either. That brings Gholston into the discussion but is he worthy of a #1 pick?

I think it really comes down to the fact that Miami will want to build up the trenches to start their rebuilding process, and they start with Jake.

... if Chris is a DE technically he plays in the Trenches too. Same goes for Gholston.

LonghornsLegend
04-09-2008, 04:14 PM
Responsibility is a heavy responsibility.

It's parcells' responsibility to make a trade market for his pick.

I think he's done trying to 'sell' the #1 pick, no one wants it, its no player that warrants that spot, and no one good enough to make someone trade up...Parcells is just keeping everybody guessing, but I dont think he's concerned with covering things up so he can trade the pick, the chances of that happening are very small.

UK Cards Fan
04-09-2008, 04:15 PM
Does anyone seriously think that Tom Condon would take a below Market deal... In my opinion, there is not a chance that Condon would accept that.

I am intrigued by Peter King's suggestion that Miami may attempt to negotiate with various players to get the lowest price but if they go down that route, I can see that ruling out Condon backed guys.

Paranoidmoonduck
04-09-2008, 04:17 PM
Miami is just doing the smart thing and opening talks early enough that they can use each player's potential deal to drive the others down.

BeerBaron
04-09-2008, 04:21 PM
I think he's done trying to 'sell' the #1 pick, no one wants it, its no player that warrants that spot, and no one good enough to make someone trade up...Parcells is just keeping everybody guessing, but I dont think he's concerned with covering things up so he can trade the pick, the chances of that happening are very small.

agreed. barring that .0000001% chance that they hit the jockpot and rob the cowboys blind of d-mac, no one wants that pick.

all of the teams directly behind them have multiple players theyd be thrilled to have too. i they take jake, the rams go with chris or gholston. the falcons go dorsey or ryan. the chiefs go dorsey, ellis or ryan....

the dolphins are the only team whos going to be picking #1 overall this year. and with the money thats involved, i think jake's position makes him more worth it than anyone else, so talking to him early might give them a jump and get him to accept less money than he otherwise would.

also, if he seems adamant on more money than they want to pay, theres still plenty of time to talk to chris, ryan, gholston, etc.

if one of them were to agree to significantly less, they could go that players direction or use that as leverage on jake. if those guys are willing to take less, then jake will certainly be getting less money than that even if hes selected several picks later.

i think its smart on the dolphins for any reason they are doing it really

Brothgar
04-09-2008, 04:24 PM
this screams 'smokescreen' at me. No way they'll leak THIS fast. I think they're hoping KC will bite or something

I was thinking the same thing not only that but I think it'll work because look at how many chances the Chiefs have to take waiting for Long who is really one of three players that have any value at 5 and fill a need. Long or one of the two DTs. And think about it there are 4 teams ahead of the KC that could take Long. Miami only has 2 OT's. People in Atlanta are yelling about how they don't want Ryan (note I don't think it happens but) St. Louis is looking for the replacement to Pace. None is going to tell me that Oakland doesn't need an upgrade at OT. I could see KC moving up to that #1 spot while Miami laughs all the way to Vernon Gholston.

BeerBaron
04-09-2008, 04:26 PM
I was thinking the same thing not only that but I think it'll work because look at how many chances the Chiefs have to take waiting for Long who is really one of three players that have any value at 5 and fill a need. Long or one of the two DTs. And think about it there are 4 teams ahead of the KC that could take Long. Miami only has 2 OT's. People in Atlanta are yelling about how they don't want Ryan (note I don't think it happens but) St. Louis is looking for the replacement to Pace. None is going to tell me that Oakland doesn't need an upgrade at OT. I could see KC moving up to that #1 spot while Miami laughs all the way to Vernon Gholston.

i dont think it happens. that would cost them their whole draft this year basically and probably then some...and theyre a team with too many needs.

they could use at least two starting o-lineman, a few WRs, a young CB......

i dont think they do it to fill jsut one of their many holes

Addict
04-09-2008, 04:27 PM
I was thinking the same thing not only that but I think it'll work because look at how many chances the Chiefs have to take waiting for Long who is really one of three players that have any value at 5 and fill a need. Long or one of the two DTs. And think about it there are 4 teams ahead of the KC that could take Long. Miami only has 2 OT's. People in Atlanta are yelling about how they don't want Ryan (note I don't think it happens but) St. Louis is looking for the replacement to Pace. None is going to tell me that Oakland doesn't need an upgrade at OT. I could see KC moving up to that #1 spot while Miami laughs all the way to Vernon Gholston.

Exactly. I think KC would want to give Brodie Croyle a fair chance before going QB, and their main need is OT, so if they want to avoid reaching for one, they'll have to trade up or hope other teams pass long up which is hard to imagine. The only problem I see is value... it'll cost them a lot to move up.

vidae
04-09-2008, 04:28 PM
I'm not sure Carl Peterson will trade up but anything can happen, I guess.

And who knows, if DMac, Matt Ryan, or one of the badass DTs are still there at 5, we could possibly trade DOWN to acquire more picks and still get Clady or Branden Albert.

toonsterwu
04-09-2008, 04:29 PM
The interesting dynamic on trying to convince someone to take a below market deal, besides the Condon factor is this - typically, if you are trying to talk someone into a lesser deal, you go with the guy that has the most chance of falling. The problem is, of of the 4 rumored by Jason Cole over at Yahoo, the guy at most risk of falling is Ryan, and QB's typically somewhat buck the patterns on costs. Jake Long isn't going to fall too far. Same with Chris and Glenn, assuming Glenn is healthy.

I don't think Parcells is done selling the pick btw. He's got a few weeks left to go. All he has to do is convince 1 team that either they might take someone, or someone might deal up for someone they want. He's in no rush to stop selling the pick. Say Kansas City looks at the board and gets worried that OT options in the 2nd are going to be thin (a definite possibility) and say Parcells agrees to take a bit less to drop down. Something could be worked out. Say he has KC on the phone and manages to sell St. Louis on that. Maybe St. Louis forks over something tiny to secure Jake Long. Say Atlanta gets into the equation, fearing missing out on OT's, and Miami is willing to take something small. A lot of variables exist.

LonghornsLegend
04-09-2008, 04:34 PM
this is from the Miami Herald...per roto

The Dolphins are reportedly not considering Boston College QB Matt Ryan with the No. 1 overall pick in the draft.

Those covering the team say Miami is more likely to use its high second-round pick on a quarterback, if the Dolphins choose one at all. The Miami Herald writes that the 'Fins are "believed to be happy" with John Beck.


I never thought they were taking him anyway, but some people still believed it was a chance.

Brothgar
04-09-2008, 04:35 PM
Exactly. I think KC would want to give Brodie Croyle a fair chance before going QB, and their main need is OT, so if they want to avoid reaching for one, they'll have to trade up or hope other teams pass long up which is hard to imagine. The only problem I see is value... it'll cost them a lot to move up.

I also thought that. Trade value chart is that the Chiefs would have to unload the 1st and 2nd round pick. But if noone else is offering I think that the Phins would pull the trigger for a 3rd just so that they don't have to pay Long that much money. IF somehow they miss out on Gholston (somehow I see the kid a Raider) they can still fleace the Cowboys into giving up 2 firsts and a 2nd to grab McFadden in front of the Pats and Jets.

BeerBaron
04-09-2008, 04:35 PM
i dont think it happens. that would cost them their whole draft this year basically and probably then some...and theyre a team with too many needs.

they could use at least two starting o-lineman, a few WRs, a young CB......

i dont think they do it to fill jsut one of their many holes

wow, this guy knows his ****

holt_bruce81
04-09-2008, 04:37 PM
Please let this be true!

I want Chris Long in a Rams uni!

toonsterwu
04-09-2008, 04:37 PM
I honestly would take that Matt Ryan report with a grain of salt. This is Parcells we're talking about - anything the media writes about is potentially an intentional leak. There's been reports that the final four are Ryan, Dorsey, Chris Long, and Jake Long. If I was a betting man, from what I understand, I'd order it Chris Long, Matt Ryan, Jake Long, Glenn Dorsey as of now, with Dorsey a bit further away, but still in the radar.

Btw, one last note on Jake Long. He is the Dolphins best bet for a trade. The chances of someone in the top few picks dealing up for Dorsey is slim with Ellis there. No one's dealing up for Ryan. Chris Long is nice, but no one is dealing up for him. There's enough of a value gap between Jake Long and the other OT's, and the chances of OT's thinning out by late first is quite high.

Addict
04-09-2008, 04:37 PM
I also thought that trade value chart is that the Chiefs would have to unload the 1st and 2nd round pick. But if noone else is offering I think that the Phins would pull the trigger for a 3rd just so that they don't have to pay Long that much money. IF somehow they miss out on Gholston (somehow I see the kid a Raider) they can still fleace the Cowboys into giving up 2 firsts and a 2nd to grab McFadden in front of the Pats and Jets.

About the Dolphins taking first and third: I think they'll do that, maybe with a future pick in the mix?

About Gholston as a Raider... After giving Kelly that much money and the cash they already have tied up in Burgess I doubt it. I could see DL but then coming out of LSU or USC.

BeerBaron
04-09-2008, 04:38 PM
I also thought that trade value chart is that the Chiefs would have to unload the 1st and 2nd round pick. But if noone else is offering I think that the Phins would pull the trigger for a 3rd just so that they don't have to pay Long that much money. IF somehow they miss out on Gholston (somehow I see the kid a Raider) they can still fleace the Cowboys into giving up 2 firsts and a 2nd to grab McFadden in front of the Pats and Jets.

thats one of the flaws with the trade chart imo, no one "pulls the trigger" on deals that dont hold up to the value.

last year had a prime example. the bucs need and wanted calvin johnson, the lions wanted and needed gaines adams. the browns were unlikely to take either and they were in between. the bucs wanted to trade up for calvin but the lions wanted to value of the pick back which was an ungodly amount of picks. the bucs didnt want to pay it. in my opinion, the lions should have done it, taken gaines at 4, paid him a lot less, and picked up a free 3rd rounder. according to the chart, the value doesnt maatch up but in my opinion, it does.

but since that asinine chart still flys, the chiefs would have to give up way too much to get it and they have too many other needs to blow their whole draft on just one of them

TheGreatEscape
04-09-2008, 04:48 PM
I think he's done trying to 'sell' the #1 pick, no one wants it, its no player that warrants that spot, and no one good enough to make someone trade up...Parcells is just keeping everybody guessing, but I dont think he's concerned with covering things up so he can trade the pick, the chances of that happening are very small.

I think he can sell the rams or chiefs on Long since he's so much better than the other elite tackles.

Rjspartan
04-09-2008, 04:52 PM
i have had jake long as the miami pick for a while now so this doesn't really surprise me.

TheGreatEscape
04-09-2008, 04:53 PM
thats one of the flaws with the trade chart imo, no one "pulls the trigger" on deals that dont hold up to the value.

last year had a prime example. the bucs need and wanted calvin johnson, the lions wanted and needed gaines adams. the browns were unlikely to take either and they were in between. the bucs wanted to trade up for calvin but the lions wanted to value of the pick back which was an ungodly amount of picks. the bucs didnt want to pay it. in my opinion, the lions should have done it, taken gaines at 4, paid him a lot less, and picked up a free 3rd rounder. according to the chart, the value doesnt maatch up but in my opinion, it does.

but since that asinine chart still flys, the chiefs would have to give up way too much to get it and they have too many other needs to blow their whole draft on just one of them


We're talking about Parcells, he's not Matt Millen.

Brothgar
04-09-2008, 04:58 PM
thats one of the flaws with the trade chart imo, no one "pulls the trigger" on deals that dont hold up to the value.

last year had a prime example. the bucs need and wanted calvin johnson, the lions wanted and needed gaines adams. the browns were unlikely to take either and they were in between. the bucs wanted to trade up for calvin but the lions wanted to value of the pick back which was an ungodly amount of picks. the bucs didnt want to pay it. in my opinion, the lions should have done it, taken gaines at 4, paid him a lot less, and picked up a free 3rd rounder. according to the chart, the value doesnt maatch up but in my opinion, it does.

but since that asinine chart still flys, the chiefs would have to give up way too much to get it and they have too many other needs to blow their whole draft on just one of them

I thought that the bucs were offering 4 day 1 picks to get CJ.


EDIT:
http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/04/17/bucs-raiders-talking-calvin-johnson-trade/

but I was wrong it would take the full draft to move from 5 to 1. They won't do that nor would they offer more than a 2nd. But I still think that the Phins would drop for that 2nd.

LonghornsLegend
04-09-2008, 04:59 PM
I honestly would take that Matt Ryan report with a grain of salt. This is Parcells we're talking about - anything the media writes about is potentially an intentional leak. There's been reports that the final four are Ryan, Dorsey, Chris Long, and Jake Long. If I was a betting man, from what I understand, I'd order it Chris Long, Matt Ryan, Jake Long, Glenn Dorsey as of now, with Dorsey a bit further away, but still in the radar.

Btw, one last note on Jake Long. He is the Dolphins best bet for a trade. The chances of someone in the top few picks dealing up for Dorsey is slim with Ellis there. No one's dealing up for Ryan. Chris Long is nice, but no one is dealing up for him. There's enough of a value gap between Jake Long and the other OT's, and the chances of OT's thinning out by late first is quite high.


You really believe they are higher on Ryan then they are Jake Long? I dont buy that, I dont think they want to spend the #1 overall pick on a qb that isnt in the class of peyton manning or carson palmer, maybe if miami was picking around 5 or so, but not #1...their O line is still horrible and even if Long plays RT he makes so much more sense then Ryan, especially if they like what they see from Beck(as they have been reporting).

neko4
04-09-2008, 05:04 PM
I made a mock draft in study block today and put Jake Long to Miami. My line coach and I got into an arguement about it, so i guess i told him!

toonsterwu
04-09-2008, 05:06 PM
I believe drafting Matt Ryan makes much more sense than Jake Long does. It should be noted that the positive praise Sparano gave Beck was very couched, for lack of a better term. He said he had to change his mechanics, and that he was competing with McCown. Sparano wasn't willing to comment on John's skillset. The old rule is that you don't pass up a franchise QB unless you have one. While Ryan might not be on Peyton's level, he's still a top QB prospect irrespective of what the board thinks, and irrespective of what I may feel about Ryan overall. I say this as a Beck fan (I praised them passing on Quinn last year ... now I didn't like them picking Ginn Jr. that's for certain).

Now that said, I still believe Chris Long is the best pick. Either way, I do expect them to draft their QB of the future this year.

neko4
04-09-2008, 05:08 PM
Yeah, lets throw a young QB out there with no offensive line, no WR's and a banged up RB. That ussually works well, just look at David Carr!

toonsterwu
04-09-2008, 05:19 PM
I'm assuming that's directed to me ... so who says you would be throwing a QB in there? Let's play a hypothetical. Let's say you draft Ryan first, and then you take a tackle to start the 2nd. Suddenly, you have 4 pieces to your OL. A 5th piece can be found. Perhaps add a TE with a pick in the first 4 rounds. But ... instead of throwing the QB in there, you wait a year. You see where your RB's are, you see where your WR's are. Next year, you fill in the gaps. Perhaps you use another pick on an OL guy if need be, or you go out in FA and try to sign someone. Add an offensive piece. Suddenly, your QB has a core around him to start year 2.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-09-2008, 05:22 PM
Take it with a grain of salt.. Dolphins just doing there job..

I agree.. Texans did it with Bush and Williams. Interesting though because there is no set #1 or #2 pick, so I wonder if they will try with their top 2 or 3 on their big board or is this more telling at this time than anything.

BeerBaron
04-09-2008, 05:24 PM
Yeah, lets throw a young QB out there with no offensive line, no WR's and a banged up RB. That ussually works well, just look at David Carr!

and people want to give this guy to the bears...theyve got a whole lot more offensive talent....

anyway

its my opinion that jake long makes the most sense. there are still a lot of factors to play into it but if i had to bet, id go with jake

toonsterwu
04-09-2008, 05:26 PM
For the Bears, my two prefences at QB aren't guys we'll get. Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco. I believe in Flacco, who has the highest upside, and we have the scrubs to buy him time. As for Ryan, the upside is high, and he would offer an immediate upgrade to the position in my opinion.

We'll probably end up with (ugh) Brian Brohm or Chad Henne.

BeerBaron
04-09-2008, 05:29 PM
For the Bears, my two prefences at QB aren't guys we'll get. Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco. I believe in Flacco, who has the highest upside, and we have the scrubs to buy him time. As for Ryan, the upside is high, and he would offer an immediate upgrade to the position in my opinion.

We'll probably end up with (ugh) Brian Brohm or Chad Henne.

i "ugh" to all of them except flacco and brohm.

wouldnt touch henne anywhere anyhow. "toughness" and "leadership," his two best attributes, can be found in 14 year old girls soccer captains and old WW2 vets in the home.

now ryan, i dont want. if someone held a gun to my head and said "ryan at 14 or henne in the 2nd" i suppose id have to say ryan as being the lesser of 2 evils in my mind.

kind of like asking whether you prefer hitler or stalin...about as worse case of scenario as i can envision

i just see ryan as having a david carr like career at best. suffices for a crappy team for a few years and then ends up as nothing special...throws too many picks, looks just awful at times.....other than 4 minutes vs. VT, i never once saw him "create"

great QBs "create" good plays. they "create" wins with teams that would otherwise lose. i just don't see that in ryan.....

anyway, this isnt a "why i dont like ryan" thread so ill shut up now

anyway, this isnt a why

toonsterwu
04-09-2008, 05:32 PM
I'd say ugh to Brohm. Brohm throwing passes in our stadium? That's not a pretty thought. We might as well go back to the John Shoop days (although we may do that anyways consideirng the skill position makeup). You need a QB with some arm strength to play for us. Now, as I've noted before, I think Brohm could make a solid starter somewhere. With us? Not sold. Honestly, if we're left choosing between Brohm or Henne in the 2nd, my preference would be to take O'Connell in the 5th and hope we can develop a QB. I don't want either, Henne for his lack of poise.

BeerBaron
04-09-2008, 05:35 PM
I'd say ugh to Brohm. Brohm throwing passes in our stadium? That's not a pretty thought. We might as well go back to the John Shoop days (although we may do that anyways consideirng the skill position makeup). You need a QB with some arm strength to play for us. Now, as I've noted before, I think Brohm could make a solid starter somewhere. With us? Not sold. Honestly, if we're left choosing between Brohm or Henne in the 2nd, my preference would be to take O'Connell in the 5th and hope we can develop a QB. I don't want either, Henne for his lack of poise.

aye...i added more to my ryan thread probably after you started posting but im not wildly opposed to brohm in the 2nd. i prefer it to most other situations we could find ourselves in....

and in a way, i like the idea of sticking with KO/rexy and taking a late rounder. if one of the former guys works out for a year, we can develop the late rounder as a backup/future replacement.

and if thats what we do and all of our QBs end up terrible, we can grab someone hopefully better than ryan/henne/brohm in the future. i know people say theres few QBs next year worth a damn but you never know who could step it up in a year.

id prefer tebow to any of those guys even

toonsterwu
04-09-2008, 05:39 PM
Last comment from me on the Bears in this thread - here's the thing. If we're drafting high enough to grab a Stafford (who I rate higher than Tebow as of now ... that said, for all the love given to both, both have a lot of work to do before being top of the first round QB's, IMO, despite popular opinion), it means that we're tearing the team apart and rebuilding.

In fact, and this is probably a discussion for another thread, I can see a scenario where Matt Ryan is the highest QB coming out over the course of the next 3 seasons. The combination of arm strength, physical upside, and QB understanding ... well, Stafford or Tebow will have to step up big. All that said, I'm not sold Ryan will be a star in the NFL. I respect the value, though.

devinhester=R.O.Y 2006
04-09-2008, 05:44 PM
Chris Mortensen said the Dolphins were negotiating with 4 players including Jake Long, Chris Long, Vernon Gholston, and Derrick Harvey.

Brothgar
04-09-2008, 05:46 PM
About the Dolphins taking first and third: I think they'll do that, maybe with a future pick in the mix?

About Gholston as a Raider... After giving Kelly that much money and the cash they already have tied up in Burgess I doubt it. I could see DL but then coming out of LSU or USC.

Oh damn you're right. For some reason I completely forgot about Burgess. Good call.

BeerBaron
04-09-2008, 05:55 PM
Chris Mortensen said the Dolphins were negotiating with 4 players including Jake Long, Chris Long, Vernon Gholston, and Derrick Harvey.

harvey gets the biggest wtf from me. didnt see that...

i bet hes there just to try and leverage the other guys a bit...not a chance he goes #1 overall but if they can at least get the other 3 to buy that harvey is willing to take far less money, maybe they can get one of them to crack

BamaFalcon59
04-09-2008, 06:05 PM
I've been saying for a while that Derrick Harvey is underrated. I would put him just under Vernon Gholston.

toonsterwu
04-09-2008, 06:23 PM
I'd still personally take Harvey over Gholston, but I wouldn't be on that. That said, people have seemingly forgotten that it was Harvey that got a first round projection and not Gholston (who got, I think, a 2nd round projection). It wouldn't stun me in the least if Harvey went ahead, just wouldn't bet on it.

neko4
04-09-2008, 06:31 PM
Correct me if im wrong, but the bears want to have a deep passing attack right. Not really a dink and dunk thing right?

BeerBaron
04-09-2008, 06:32 PM
I'd still personally take Harvey over Gholston, but I wouldn't be on that. That said, people have seemingly forgotten that it was Harvey that got a first round projection and not Gholston (who got, I think, a 2nd round projection). It wouldn't stun me in the least if Harvey went ahead, just wouldn't bet on it.

really? thats surprising...didnt know that about harvey > gholston.

i guess workouts can do wonders....

but didnt harvey gain a bit of weight? enough to leave him probably too large for your typical 34 OLB

toonsterwu
04-09-2008, 06:42 PM
How is high 260's/low 270's too large? Now, if you want to argue that he's too long, perhaps. That's certainly been an argument that's been made. But I don't think his weight is that big an issue.

Ron Turner's offense is somewhat like his brothers. In an ideal situation, you are power running to set up a vertical attack with big targets downfield. Now, there's definitely minor changes, but short of it is, it's not a WCO style attack in base, although it has adapted some principles.

Crickett
04-09-2008, 06:43 PM
Oddly enough, I'd like to see the Dolphins draft Jake Long. I think Long compares unfavorably to previous top OL draft prospects such as Joe Thomas, D'Brickashaw Ferguson and Robert Gallery. And no, I'm not saying that Long will be worse than Gallery, so don't even try to interpret it that way. But thats not why I want the Dolphins to draft Jake Long. Quite the contrary. While I do not think he is as good of a prospect as the others, I do think he will provide a pretty good upgrade for a Dolphins line that desperately needs it and thats not good news for the Jets.

No, the reason I would be glad if Long went #1 is because if he did, I can't imagine a scenario where Darren McFadden, Chris Long and Vernon Gholston are all gone before #6. And if Gholston does land at #6, well, remember who it was who beat Jake Long in college. :D

neko4
04-09-2008, 06:44 PM
Thanks
Thats a big reason why I dont think Ryan or Brohm will be good fits in CHI. They dont have the deep ball that Flacco does.

toonsterwu
04-09-2008, 06:45 PM
Certainly this has been a much debated issue, but Ryan's arm strength wouldn't be an issue, IMO. He has more than enough arm strength, and he also has room for growth. Brohm's, now, I would certainly find his arm strength to be a bit debatable.

BeerBaron
04-09-2008, 06:47 PM
How is high 260's/low 270's too large? Now, if you want to argue that he's too long, perhaps. That's certainly been an argument that's been made. But I don't think his weight is that big an issue.


anyway, on the harvey front, i just remember reading that the pats probably wouldn't look at harvey because he doesnt fit as an OLB in the 34. i interpreted it as too big, because they also talked about him gaining some wait, but it could have been his lankeyness.

but isnt wimbley for the browns really tall and not so much mass?

Geo
04-09-2008, 07:04 PM
thats one of the flaws with the trade chart imo, no one "pulls the trigger" on deals that dont hold up to the value.

last year had a prime example. the bucs need and wanted calvin johnson, the lions wanted and needed gaines adams. the browns were unlikely to take either and they were in between. the bucs wanted to trade up for calvin but the lions wanted to value of the pick back which was an ungodly amount of picks. the bucs didnt want to pay it. in my opinion, the lions should have done it, taken gaines at 4, paid him a lot less, and picked up a free 3rd rounder. according to the chart, the value doesnt maatch up but in my opinion, it does.

but since that asinine chart still flys, the chiefs would have to give up way too much to get it and they have too many other needs to blow their whole draft on just one of them
I agree with your sentiment, screw the outdated draft value chart and take what you deem as value enough or not. As you said, if you as one of the teams involved in a potential trade think it's enough, then do it. As the chart as a guide, not gospel.

Bill Polian did this very thing when he was the GM at Carolina, when the team had the first overall pick in the 1995 Draft. He (and the front office) knew they wanted to draft quarterback Kerry Collins of Penn State, but took less than the value chart to accept the Bengals' offer of the fifth overall pick plus their 2nd round pick, and they selected Collins fifth overall now with another good pick to help them.

I would think the Chiefs would take less than draft chart value, because of the need they have to acquire talent, but King Carl strikes me as being stupid enough to treat the draft value chart as gospel.

BeerBaron
04-09-2008, 07:10 PM
I agree with your sentiment, screw the outdated draft value chart and take what you deem as value enough or not. As you said, if you as one of the teams involved in a potential trade think it's enough, then do it. As the chart as a guide, not gospel.

Bill Polian did this very thing when he was the GM at Carolina, when the team had the first overall pick in the 1995 Draft. He (and the front office) knew they wanted to draft quarterback Kerry Collins of Penn State, but took less than the value chart to accept the Bengals' offer of the fifth overall pick plus their 2nd round pick, and they selected Collins fifth overall now with another good pick to help them.

I would think the Chiefs would take less than draft chart value, because of the need they have to acquire talent, but King Carl strikes me as being stupid enough to treat the draft value chart as gospel.

well im glad to see that theres someone in the nfl smart enough to realize that. even if it is naPolian.

the charts outdated and, in my opinion at least, was a bad idea in the first place. maybe thats how one team should view it but situations are all different....

i can envision situations where it should cost more to trade from say, 5 to 3 but also ones where it should cost less to go from 3 to 1, all depending on who the teams want and whos between them and whatnot

neko4
04-09-2008, 07:16 PM
I'm assuming that's directed to me ... so who says you would be throwing a QB in there? Let's play a hypothetical. Let's say you draft Ryan first, and then you take a tackle to start the 2nd. Suddenly, you have 4 pieces to your OL. A 5th piece can be found. Perhaps add a TE with a pick in the first 4 rounds. But ... instead of throwing the QB in there, you wait a year. You see where your RB's are, you see where your WR's are. Next year, you fill in the gaps. Perhaps you use another pick on an OL guy if need be, or you go out in FA and try to sign someone. Add an offensive piece. Suddenly, your QB has a core around him to start year 2.
Thats very hypothetical
But i suppose Parcells would be smart enough to do it.
But i dont get how you believe picking a QB, when you drafted one on the first day last year makes more sense than picking an OT, who can fix the Oline

BeerBaron
04-09-2008, 07:33 PM
Thats very hypothetical
But i suppose Parcells would be smart enough to do it.
But i dont get how you believe picking a QB, when you drafted one on the first day last year makes more sense than picking an OT, who can fix the Oline

think about this though. if you were parcells, would you want to bank your future as the VP of this franchise, as well as the careers of all of your former lackies you hired, on a QB left over from the previous regime who went 1-15 and done?

i wouldnt...

plus i think all new coaches/staffs like to bring in their own QB. even if you have a great one in place, i would think they woudl like to have at least a late rounder to grow with and develop as their own guy

KCJ58
04-09-2008, 07:35 PM
Chris Long to St. Louis!!!

Geo
04-09-2008, 07:40 PM
Here is Peter King's idea on the Dolphins, aka Reason #654823 why he's a stupid dumbass:

9. I think I have this interesting theory about what Bill Parcells and Jeff Ireland might do with that first-overall pick in Miami. I think they just might choose the four guys they like the most and say to each one, in effect: "We've got an offer for you. Look at Gaines Adams' rookie contract last year as the fourth overall pick -- six years, $42 million, with $19 million guaranteed. We'll raise the money and the guarantee five percent overall. Let's call it six years, $45 million, with $21 guaranteed.'' Then they'd go each player, one by one, and make the offer. That's the smartest way to not get held hostage by a player you don't think is worth first-pick-in-the-draft money. If no player took the offer, which would surprise me, Miami would have to decide whether it would be willing to pick the best guy blind, with no deal.
Not only would every agent of every aforementioned player laugh that idea out of the room, but it's beyond stupid to the players themselves. Why on Earth would they take less than the 2nd overall pick, the 3rd overall pick, and likely the 4th overall pick this year as well? Unless it's Gholston who could fall to the 5th or 6th pick, it makes no sense. Which is par for the course from dumbass Peter King, whose only use is as a mouthpiece for what he's hearing around the league.

Here are the max figures (whether they meet all the triggers remains to be seen) reported for the top guys of the last two years, thanks to rotoworld.

2007
1st overall QB Jamarcus Russell, 6 years/ 61M/ 32M
2nd overall WR Calvin Johnson, 6 years/ 55.5M/ 27.2M
3rd overall OT Joe Thomas, 5 years/ 42.5M/ 23M

2006
1st overall DE Mario Williams, 6 years/ 54M/ 26.5M
2nd overall RB Reggie Bush, 6 years/ 52.5M/ 26.31M
3rd overall QB Vince Young, 6 years/ 58M/ 25.74M
4th overall OT D'Brickashaw Ferguson, 6 years/ 37.5M/ 17.9M

BeerBaron
04-09-2008, 07:44 PM
boy, that russell deal makes it hard on anyone they pick.

you know the agent for any player they take is going to want the russell deal slightly inflated, as what seems to happen with players you pick anywhere.

but none of them are worth #1 overall QB money and its going to be hard for miami....

thats why ive been suggesting they go jake long just because hes the only position worth paying that much to as a possible franchise OT

Geo
04-09-2008, 07:47 PM
This year's first overall pick might not get more than Russell, remember the QB position gets a natural bump signing-wise even in the Top 10 (plus who knows if Russell will even hit the triggers to get near full value, depends on the contract ... but I doubt it). Matt Ryan could theoretically, but the idea that he could be the first overall pick is completely laughable, no matter what Tuna tries to sell.

LonghornsLegend
04-09-2008, 07:47 PM
Then what was Reggie Bush' problem not coming to terms with Houston for a deal, when essentially it looks like he ended up with a little less by not agreeing...Im guessing he was banking on the Texans still taking him, and then a contract could be worked out by training camp or he could have the option to hold out.

BeerBaron
04-09-2008, 07:51 PM
This year's first overall pick might not get more than Russell, remember the QB position gets a natural bump signing-wise even in the Top 10 (plus who knows if Russell will even hit the triggers to get near full value, depends on the contract ... but I doubt it). Matt Ryan could theoretically, but the idea that he could be the first overall pick is completely laughable, no matter what Tuna tries to sell.

right but my point was that is what the agents are going to try and start with. i mean, in any negotiation everyone knows to try and aim as high as you can, work from there...

i dont think who miami takes will get it obviously, but but anything close to what russell got will be a gross overpay by the phins. unfortunately, i dont think they have a choice.

keylime_5
04-09-2008, 07:52 PM
A lot of pro scouts are convinced that the Dolphins want Jake Long now, or so have I heard. It is obvious that Miami let that much knowledge out, and there's a chance it could be smokescreen...but IMO Miami will negotiate with Chris Long and then probably Matt Ryan next even though I really doubt they'll pick Ryan. If one of the Longs is more signable than the other that might be the deciding factor.

BamaFalcon59
04-09-2008, 07:56 PM
Matt Ryan would probably garner about 60 million if he was taken by the Falcons at pick three, considering JaMarcus Russell was payed over 60 million at pick one last year and Vince Young got 58 million two years ago. Ugh. Hopefully he shows some of those intangibles and takes 55 million, or better yet less.

Geo
04-09-2008, 07:58 PM
It is what it is, unfortunately. The system is broken and you can't go back, it needs to be fixed except slimebag Upshaw (head of the Players Union) is too busy making sure he hangs onto his cushy, $6.7M per year! job. Nevermind that this money should be going to proven players in the league, no let's give it to kids out of college who can potentially bury a bad team if they don't work out for whatever reason.

Jake Long is supposed to take less than Chris Long will get as the second overall pick? Hell no, no matter how Tuna feels about it.

BamaFalcon59
04-09-2008, 08:07 PM
Looks like it will be Glenn Dorsey or Matt Ryan for the Falcons. Unless the Patriots or Jets are really high on Chris Long and he is still available, which is probably doubtful. Grr.

Considering my stance a couple of months ago, I am suprised that I want Matt Ryan to be our pick. Not sure why, but I want him more than Glenn Dorsey and right on par with Jake Long.

Geo
04-09-2008, 08:12 PM
I think Blank wants Ryan, but my guess is Smith and Dimitroff go Dorsey. Because for all of Ryan's positives, they will have one thing in the back of their heads that will prevent them from drafting him: a player on their roster, Joey Harrington. They've seen what happens to a very similar imo quarterback prospect who lands on a bad team, when Harrington went to the Lions years ago ... coincidentally, with the 3rd overall pick in 2002.

But that's just a guess on my part.

BamaFalcon59
04-09-2008, 08:16 PM
I think Blank wants Ryan, but my guess is Smith and Dimitroff go Dorsey. Because for all of Ryan's positives, they will have one thing in the back of their heads that will prevent them from drafting him: a player on their roster, Joey Harrington. They've seen what happens to a very similar imo quarterback prospect who lands on a bad team, when Harrington went to the Lions years ago ... coincidentally, with the 3rd overall pick in 2002.

But that's just a guess on my part.

Maybe. I did not follow the draft back then, so I can not really comment on the comparison.

TACKLE
04-09-2008, 08:21 PM
Miami is also are going to have contract with Dorsey and Chris Long but not with Ryan.

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3338677&searchName=clayton_john&campaign=rsssrch&source=john+clayton&univLogin02=stateChanged&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d3338677%26searchName% 3dclayton_john%26campaign%3drsssrch%26source%3djoh n%2bclayton%26univLogin02%3dstateChanged

adamprez2003
04-09-2008, 08:24 PM
I honestly would take that Matt Ryan report with a grain of salt. This is Parcells we're talking about - anything the media writes about is potentially an intentional leak. There's been reports that the final four are Ryan, Dorsey, Chris Long, and Jake Long. If I was a betting man, from what I understand, I'd order it Chris Long, Matt Ryan, Jake Long, Glenn Dorsey as of now, with Dorsey a bit further away, but still in the radar.

Btw, one last note on Jake Long. He is the Dolphins best bet for a trade. The chances of someone in the top few picks dealing up for Dorsey is slim with Ellis there. No one's dealing up for Ryan. Chris Long is nice, but no one is dealing up for him. There's enough of a value gap between Jake Long and the other OT's, and the chances of OT's thinning out by late first is quite high. Good point about best chance for a trade with Atlanta and St Louis. Add the fact that out of the top five Miami is considering, Jake Long probably comes with the lowest salary demands and its a good place to start. You want to establish a low floor from which to negotiate with the higher demands of Chris Long and Matt Ryan. You know Ryan was looking for 70 mil. If they get Jake to agree to 60 mil, well now Ryan is facing about 57 and that's only if Atlanta actually picks him. Best way to lower Ryan's demands is to get Jake to do it for them. Same thing for Chris Long who was probably demanding a boatload after being talked up by all the media heads

Whistler6
04-09-2008, 10:10 PM
this is good news for the team because it will make them better, but it is boring for the fans..b/c there's nothing fun about watching an OT play

BamaFalcon59
04-09-2008, 10:18 PM
this is good news for the team because it will make them better, but it is boring for the fans..b/c there's nothing fun about watching an OT play

However, there is something fun about watching Ronnie Brown run offtackle for five yards a pop, right off Jake Long's backside. Or on third and short. Or watching John Beck have time to hit Ted Ginn deep, without having a pass rusher in his face. A good offensive tackle lets everyone else on offense do what they are supposed to do.

BeerBaron
04-09-2008, 10:34 PM
Looks like it will be Glenn Dorsey or Matt Ryan for the Falcons. Unless the Patriots or Jets are really high on Chris Long and he is still available, which is probably doubtful. Grr.

Considering my stance a couple of months ago, I am suprised that I want Matt Ryan to be our pick. Not sure why, but I want him more than Glenn Dorsey and right on par with Jake Long.

im with ya there man. i want him to be the falcons pick too. or the chiefs. or the ravens. or the panthers....

with every spot he drops without someone taking him, the more years leak off of the end of my life as i come closer and closer to having a complete heart attack...

but yeah man, leadership. intangibles. you want ryan as a falcon, trust me man. <bites lip>

neko4
04-09-2008, 10:39 PM
However, there is something fun about watching Ronnie Brown run offtackle for five yards a pop, right off Jake Long's backside. Or on third and short. Or watching John Beck have time to hit Ted Ginn deep, without having a pass rusher in his face. A good offensive tackle lets everyone else on offense do what they are supposed to do.
Exactly my point
Everything starts in the trenches

BamaFalcon59
04-09-2008, 10:39 PM
im with ya there man. i want him to be the falcons pick too. or the chiefs. or the ravens. or the panthers....

with every spot he drops without someone taking him, the more years leak off of the end of my life as i come closer and closer to having a complete heart attack...

but yeah man, leadership. intangibles. you want ryan as a falcon, trust me man. <bites lip>

Lol. I'm not sure why I want him on our team. I just feel like it would be a good pick.

BeerBaron
04-09-2008, 10:42 PM
Lol. I'm not sure why I want him on our team. I just feel like it would be a good pick.

i completely agree. he would be a fantastic falcons pick. even your owner seems to really want him. heck, if he works out he could be the new face of your franchise, make everyone forget about that vick guy...

im truly hoping the falcons take him man, ive got your back there

BamaFalcon59
04-09-2008, 10:45 PM
i completely agree. he would be a fantastic falcons pick. even your owner seems to really want him. heck, if he works out he could be the new face of your franchise, make everyone forget about that vick guy...

im truly hoping the falcons take him man, ive got your back there

But do you want him to succeed with the Falcons? Or would that make you mad? Haha.

BeerBaron
04-09-2008, 10:48 PM
But do you want him to succeed with the Falcons? Or would that make you mad? Haha.

if he succeeded on the falcons then thats fine. sure id have to eat a little crow for talking about how bad i thought hed be, but at 3, it means the bears never had a shot at him so if he succeeds, then thats fine.

if the bears were to pass on a chance at him and then he succeeded....id be very relieved at first only to eat enough crow to feed all of Ethiopia. but i still wouldnt be too upset because i strongly feel now that he wont be good. if he proves me THAT wrong in the future...so be it, but i dont think it happens

LonghornsLegend
04-09-2008, 10:48 PM
probably posted, I just didnt see it but this is per roto...

NFL Network's Adam Schefter confirms that the Dolphins will not enter contract negotiations with Boston College QB Matt Ryan.

It appears Bill Parcells and Co. have written off Ryan as a potential No. 1 selection. In other news, Ryan will be among six players invited to the NFL Draft in New York. The others are Darren McFadden, Chris and Jake Long, Vernon Gholston, and Glenn Dorsey. Sedrick Ellis was snubbed for an invite

thebow305
04-09-2008, 11:49 PM
this screams 'smokescreen' at me. No way they'll leak THIS fast. I think they're hoping KC will bite or something

Couldn't agree more. I really hope this is just a "smokescreen", I'd be ok with Jake, but I would much rather have Chris or Vernon Gholston.

ChezPower4
04-10-2008, 12:00 AM
This would not surpise me... Jake Long is probably the safest pick in the draft
and he will sure up the O-Line. IMO you it's always a pretty good choice.

Or this is just bait that they are dangling and are hoping that someone has fallen in love with Jake and is willing to part with some picks to get him. Really excited to see what will come out of this.

brat316
04-10-2008, 12:01 AM
I don't know why contacting a player would be a smokescreen. I think you will hear from the player or his agent tommorw. They still haven't contacted anyone else, so this might be trying to get Chris to lower his price.

brat316
04-10-2008, 12:02 AM
If they sign a deal then Phins can set the market and then the Rams can sign a player. And pretty soon before you know it most of the top 5 picks are signed and the draft is shortened before it even starts.

Scotty D
04-10-2008, 12:04 AM
It's going turn into the MLB draft. With the worst teams getting lesser prospects that are willing to take a smaller deal.

BeerBaron
04-10-2008, 12:09 AM
to people thinking they are still trying to trade down, please read this...dont just blow it off....

look at the teams within reasonable trade range of the dolphins:

the rams: they would be very happy with either long or gholston and they are guranteed to land 1 of them at #2.

the falcons: the would be very happy with jake, dorsey or ryan and at least 1 of them is guranteed to be there at #3.

the raiders: they would be very happy with jake, either DE or either DT and one of them is guranteed to be there when they pick at #4.

the chiefs: it would basically cost them their whole draft to trade up to #1 and they have too many needs to do that. at WR they have bowe and ???. at CB they have old geesers and ???. on the o-line they have lots and lots of ??????. sure theyd fill 1 need with a great player in jake long if they traded up but even he wont do much when they cant throw to anyone or stop the pass or if the rest of the o-line is breaking down.

everyone after the chiefs: way to costly to trade up and no one there is worth it.

my point is, the dolphins WILL be picking at #1 overall in the 2008 nfl draft. and right now, i would say the odds are jake long 75% and chris long 25%. it will be one of them and i think jake because hes at a position more worth #1 overall money. only if hes far too stubborn with his monetary demands will they move to chris who is the backup choice IMO.

brat316
04-10-2008, 02:55 PM
and now gholston

Whistler6
04-12-2008, 11:06 PM
However, there is something fun about watching Ronnie Brown run offtackle for five yards a pop, right off Jake Long's backside. Or on third and short. Or watching John Beck have time to hit Ted Ginn deep, without having a pass rusher in his face. A good offensive tackle lets everyone else on offense do what they are supposed to do.


You are correct sir. word.

the decider13
04-13-2008, 03:46 AM
I think jake is a good pick for the Dolphins. Looks like all the teams are going to be ahppy untill we get to the chiefs lol

Cant have a good team if your lines suck...look at the broncos

BeerBaron
04-14-2008, 10:40 AM
BIG NEWS!

the phins have given jake long a deadline by which to agree to favorable terms or they move on. and just who would they be moving onto?

no, not chris long.....

vernon gholston

article:http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/peter_king/04/14/draft/1.html

Item three: Miami is negotiating with one player right now -- Michigan tackle Jake Long. There is a deadline, yes; I don't know what it is. But if Long doesn't agree to a deal -- think of something less than the six-year, $62-million deal ($31 million guaranteed) signed by JaMarcus Russell last year -- Parcells will move to his next guy. My educated guess -- which an NFL front-office acquaintance of Parcells seems sure of -- is that the next candidate will be Gholston, the Ohio State defensive end.

If this were Parcells, acting alone, I think he'd try to break the first-round-rookie salary scale, because he doesn't care if some 22-year-old rich kid holds out and holds press conferences about how a team is ripping him off. But this is different. The Dolphins are so down and out right now, with a new owner, GM and coach -- and a community that can't stomach much more bad news regarding the team. So Parcells, I believe, will take a small victory if he can engineer it, the victory of paying this year's first pick less than the first pick earned last year.

thebow ought to be happy at least....

thoughts on this new development anyone?

Geo
04-14-2008, 11:05 AM
Of course this year's first overall pick will get paid less than Russell did last year, Russell is a quarterback and that position gets a natural bump. King is such a dumbass.

Russell's contract is going to be ignored, Miami and whoever the draft pick's agent is are going to work off of Mario Williams' contract.

eaglesalltheway
04-14-2008, 11:11 AM
Of course this year's first overall pick will get paid less than Russell did last year, Russell is a quarterback and that position gets a natural bump. King is such a dumbass.

Russell's contract is going to be ignored, Miami and whoever the draft pick's agent is are going to work off of Mario Williams' contract.

Something tells me that if they go off of that, they amy actually get a smaller contract, albeit not by much, than Mario Williams'.

Geo
04-14-2008, 11:19 AM
We'll see.

Personally I doubt it, only because it's like a genie already being out of the bottle. I don't think we can go back or reverse what has occurred. Believe me, I dislike these guys getting paid so much without having played a snap, but what's done is done. It won't change until the system enacts a change.

And even if Gholston bites and takes less as the #1 pick, I still think other players/agents afterwards will ignore that, ie. whoever St. Louis drafts will look to get paid more than Calvin Johnson, whoever Atlanta drafts will look to get paid more than Joe Thomas, and so on. You think St. Louis or Atlanta wants their Top 3 pick to hold out? They definitely don't.

BigBlueCrew56
04-14-2008, 04:05 PM
BIG NEWS!

the phins have given jake long a deadline by which to agree to favorable terms or they move on. and just who would they be moving onto?

no, not chris long.....

vernon gholston

article:http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/peter_king/04/14/draft/1.html



thebow ought to be happy at least....

thoughts on this new development anyone?



I kinda chuckle to myself when they talk about moving on to Vernon Gholston because Gholston is represented by Ben Dogra who is in the same damn firm (CAA) with Tom Condon. If Tom doesnt get a deal done with Jake Long because it's a low ball offer then how the hell is it going to make sense for an agent who works at the same firm to take that same deal???? Common sense should scream "Conflict of interest" in a case like this. So if Ben accepts that deal for Vernon then essentially he just screwed over CAA. Wonderfull!


I can picture the conversation right now

Bill: Tom take the deal for Jake or leave

Tom: I am not accepting that ridiculous offer

Bill: Fine then I am going to offer Vernon the same amount of money

Tom: Good Luck

Bill: Hey Ben I want to offer your client below market value for the #1 pick

Ben: If you want to make Vernon Gholston the #1 pick he is going to have to get #1 pick type money. He is not going to take any less then what you are offering Jake. I am not going to be the one to throw my agency under the bus.

Bill: Hangs up the phone and calls Tom. Tom we are ready to make Jake the #1 overall pick lets agree to a number someplace in the middle. If not I will select Chris Long and you can hope one of your clients goes #2.

I am predicting that Jake Long and the Phins will agree to a deal just a bit higher then what a #2 usually gets

Larry121283
04-14-2008, 04:09 PM
The Dolphins don't have all year to work out a deal, and I am going to assume they have the top prospects all rated about evenly. Jake Long, Chris Long, and Vernon Gholston are probably all rated just about equally on the Dolphins board...so, if the Jake Long deal isn't close, they'll move on to the other two and see who they can get on the cheap.

It isn't like they'll shut down communications with Jake Long, they'll still give him plenty of opportunity to take the deal, but now they will move on and see what the other players have to offer.