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View Full Version : Michael Boley signs contract tender


d34ng3l021
04-10-2008, 11:30 AM
http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10771375

Didnt know if it was topic worthy, but considering he is a stud and the Falcons havent let him go or traded him, I figured why not?

I still hope to get him signed to a long term deal. He is easily a top5 SLB in the NFL and is only getting better.

Gay Ork Wang
04-10-2008, 11:31 AM
Good signing, he is underrated, better lock him up soon :)

bigbluedefense
04-10-2008, 11:34 AM
awww man, i was hoping we could steal him from you guys.

Number 10
04-10-2008, 11:51 AM
Falcons fans and their top 5 talk

Give it up already

He is a good player but you don't need to call every good player on your team "top 5 in the NFL".....Who's next? Babineaux or White?

d34ng3l021
04-10-2008, 11:59 AM
Can you name 5 SLBs that are better?

Nitschke-Hawk
04-10-2008, 12:01 PM
Click the link and the first two players listed at the top of the browser aren't even on the team anymore haha. Alge and D Hall. Sportsline needs to fix that.

Geo
04-10-2008, 12:06 PM
A guy signing his RFA tender isn't a story.

Nitschke-Hawk
04-10-2008, 12:07 PM
Can you name 5 SLBs that are better?

Unfortunately I don't think many people care about SLB rankings.

I'm wondering though... Who is the WLB for the Falcons now? Boley stays on the field in Nickel right?

d34ng3l021
04-10-2008, 12:11 PM
Unfortunately I don't think many people care about SLB rankings.

I'm wondering though... Who is the WLB for the Falcons now? Boley stays on the field in Nickel right?

Then 4-3 OLB rankings in general. I am sure he is in the top7-8.

The WLB for us right now is Stephen Nicholas. Hopefully we can get a MLB in the draft to get Brooking to go back to his original position.

Flyboy
04-10-2008, 12:14 PM
What would a team have to give up if they signed Boley to a tender and the Falcons didn't match it?

Nitschke-Hawk
04-10-2008, 12:19 PM
No particular order just naming guys...

AJ Hawk, Julian Peterson, Lance Briggs, Ernie Sims, Daryl Smith, Keith Bullock, Michael Boley.

Yeah he's up there. I might be missing a couple guys. I think the crop is pretty weak though because is seems like half the league is 3-4 teams now.

ChezPower4
04-10-2008, 12:31 PM
No particular order just naming guys...

AJ Hawk, Julian Peterson, Lance Briggs, Ernie Sims, Daryl Smith, Keith Bullock, Michael Boley.

Yeah he's up there. I might be missing a couple guys. I think the crop is pretty weak though because is seems like half the league is 3-4 teams now.

Most of those guys are weak side LBs the only one im not sure about is Smith, but i know that Hawk, Peterson, Briggs, Simms and Bullock are weak side LBs.

Geo
04-10-2008, 01:08 PM
What would a team have to give up if they signed Boley to a tender and the Falcons didn't match it?
A team would have to give up a first round pick as compensation, if it signed Boley to an offer sheet which the Falcons didn't match.

xooberon
04-10-2008, 01:09 PM
boley's easily up there with leroy hill and thomas davis as one of the best SLB's in the league. good move by the falcons

Maybe Next Year Millen2
04-10-2008, 01:20 PM
Bullocks,Leroy Hill, Donnie Edwards was SLB last year, Marcus Washington, Thomas Davis, Daryl Smith, Hunter Hillenmeyer.

Any 3-4 LOLB like Greg Ellis, Shaun Philips etc.

Go_Eagles77
04-10-2008, 01:52 PM
Isn't Derrick Johnson a SLB? He should be up there.

art vandelay
04-10-2008, 01:56 PM
I wouldn't call him "easily" a top 5 SLB. Boley gets a ton of hype on this board simply because he's the Falcons' best player.

d34ng3l021
04-10-2008, 01:58 PM
Well SLB in a 4-3 is a pretty narrow category in itself.

Nitschke-Hawk
04-10-2008, 02:25 PM
Most of those guys are weak side LBs the only one im not sure about is Smith, but i know that Hawk, Peterson, Briggs, Simms and Bullock are weak side LBs.

I know. I was going with the OLB in general theme responding to d34ng3l021's post.

TitanHope
04-10-2008, 03:08 PM
Most of those guys are weak side LBs the only one im not sure about is Smith, but i know that Hawk, Peterson, Briggs, Simms and Bullock are weak side LBs.

David Thornton is the WLB for the Titans. Keith Bulluck is the SLB, yet has been the most consistently productive 4-3 OLB in the NFL over the past 5 years.

I thought Boley was a WLB, but it doesn't matter. You don't place value according to where a player ranks among his fellow players at his position. The dude is an absolute animal. I rarely see one player play as if he's 11 players on the field. One minute, the dude is picking off Vince Young by keeping with Scaife setp-for-step along the sideline, and then he's containing Young when VY starts to scramble. The guy can play OLB, SS, and DE. An absolute beast in every sense of the word, and if the Falcons let him go, they'd be insane. Boley deserves a 1st and a 3rd RD tender, cause he's worth a team giving up a 1st RD pick for him.

Thunder&Lightning
04-10-2008, 03:16 PM
Ian Gold is moving to SLB this year he could be up there soon.

Go_Eagles77
04-10-2008, 04:07 PM
Ian Gold is moving to SLB this year he could be up there soon.

Isn't he a free agent?

BamaFalcon59
04-10-2008, 04:35 PM
No particular order just naming guys...

AJ Hawk, Julian Peterson, Lance Briggs, Ernie Sims, Daryl Smith, Keith Bullock, Michael Boley.

Yeah he's up there. I might be missing a couple guys. I think the crop is pretty weak though because is seems like half the league is 3-4 teams now.

I would take Briggs, Peterson, and Hawk over Boley right now. Maybe Ernie Sims. And Boley is only getting better.

BamaFalcon59
04-10-2008, 04:36 PM
David Thornton is the WLB for the Titans. Keith Bulluck is the SLB, yet has been the most consistently productive 4-3 OLB in the NFL over the past 5 years.

I thought Boley was a WLB, but it doesn't matter. You don't place value according to where a player ranks among his fellow players at his position. The dude is an absolute animal. I rarely see one player play as if he's 11 players on the field. One minute, the dude is picking off Vince Young by keeping with Scaife setp-for-step along the sideline, and then he's containing Young when VY starts to scramble. The guy can play OLB, SS, and DE. An absolute beast in every sense of the word, and if the Falcons let him go, they'd be insane. Boley deserves a 1st and a 3rd RD tender, cause he's worth a team giving up a 1st RD pick for him.

He played amazing against the Titans.

DraftMichaelHuff
04-10-2008, 09:16 PM
Yeah no doubt our best player. A bit similiar to Julian Peterson for those who dont see the Falcons play, well, IMO

BamaFalcon59
04-10-2008, 09:31 PM
Yeah no doubt our best player. A bit similiar to Julian Peterson for those who dont see the Falcons play, well, IMO

I'd agree, although I would say he is even better in coverage. He should blitz more IMO, because he does it well.

iloxygenil
04-10-2008, 11:01 PM
Falcons fans and their top 5 talk

Give it up already

He is a good player but you don't need to call every good player on your team "top 5 in the NFL".....Who's next? Babineaux or White?

Okay newblett...

#1 Michael Boley is an absolute monster, if anyone watched him play before a major injury which left him playing with 1 arm for the last few games of the season, knew the kid is a monster. Top 5 SLB without a doubt...

Deangelo Hall is still a top 3 corner (even after being traded yes he's still a top tier talent)

Michael Boley SHOULD have been a pro bowler this year and would have been if the Falcons didn't suck so bad.

Roddy White had his first break out year, and showed why he was taken in the first round and why he led the NCAA in YAC. He has worked his butt off to get where he is, and if he can do the same again next year he'll enter the top 5 talk...but only as a fringe pick. Too many great ones still active to put him up that high, but when you're pulling down the #8 spot in the NFL in yards with the trio of QBs we had plus injury...pretty impressive.

iloxygenil
04-10-2008, 11:03 PM
I'd agree, although I would say he is even better in coverage. He should blitz more IMO, because he does it well.

Boley has been used in pass rush situations as a defensive end...yeah he knows how to get after the QB no doubt.

FizzyFalcons
04-10-2008, 11:16 PM
but when you're pulling down the #8 spot in the NFL in yards with the trio of QBs we had plus injury...pretty impressive.

It's HELLO!!!

Boley is a Beast. Give us Falcons fans somethin to brag about

Flyboy
04-10-2008, 11:53 PM
Roddy White had his first break out year, and showed why he was taken in the first round and why he led the NCAA in YAC. He has worked his butt off to get where he is, and if he can do the same again next year he'll enter the top 5 talk

Lawlzcoaster.

bored of education
04-11-2008, 12:16 AM
derrick johnson still owns!

LonghornsLegend
04-11-2008, 12:18 AM
I like Roddy and all, hell I like him alot, but even if he had a 1500 yd season with 10 td's, and that still wouldn't put him in the top 5 WR talk, or anywhere close...I shouldnt have to list the names of WR's because its self explanatory, thats giving him a little too much credit.

DragonFireKai
04-11-2008, 02:12 AM
Deangelo Hall is still a top 3 corner (even after being traded yes he's still a top tier talent)

LOL. That's terrible. Take off those rose colored glasses.

Michael Boley SHOULD have been a pro bowler this year and would have been if the Falcons didn't suck so bad.

He had a good year, but who would he replace? Ellis, Ware, Peterson, or Briggs?

Roddy White had his first break out year, and showed why he was taken in the first round and why he led the NCAA in YAC. He has worked his butt off to get where he is, and if he can do the same again next year he'll enter the top 5 talk...but only as a fringe pick. Too many great ones still active to put him up that high, but when you're pulling down the #8 spot in the NFL in yards with the trio of QBs we had plus injury...pretty impressive.


He's barely entered the top five in his own division. He's still got Steve Smith and Marques Colston solidly ahead of him, and arguably Joey Galloway too. Lets move out into the NFC. Torry Holt, Terrell Owens, Plaxico Burress, Roy Williams, Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald are all better than him outside of his division. Factor in the AFC and you get Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Lee Evans, Braylon Edwards, Chad Johnson, TJ Houshmanzadeh, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Andre Johnson, and Brandon Marshall. That's at least 18 WRs who are better than White.

Gay Ork Wang
04-11-2008, 07:35 AM
Hall is a Top3 corner...

BamaFalcon59
04-11-2008, 07:37 AM
LOL. That's terrible. Take off those rose colored glasses.



He had a good year, but who would he replace? Ellis, Ware, Peterson, or Briggs?




He's barely entered the top five in his own division. He's still got Steve Smith and Marques Colston solidly ahead of him, and arguably Joey Galloway too. Lets move out into the NFC. Torry Holt, Terrell Owens, Plaxico Burress, Roy Williams, Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald are all better than him outside of his division. Factor in the AFC and you get Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Lee Evans, Braylon Edwards, Chad Johnson, TJ Houshmanzadeh, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Andre Johnson, and Brandon Marshall. That's at least 18 WRs who are better than White.

He is. Everyone is going off of his 2006, where as Hall played amazing last year and very good two years ago. Rose colored glasses? He isn't on our team

First of all he played as well as any of them, but due to name recognition Briggs, Peterson, and Ware all made it over him. But he should have made it over Ellis.

I'll agree for the most part, but Wes Welker is not better than Roddy White. Roy Williams is overrated, he lacks production. Lee Evans is debatable, as is Brandon Marshall. You have to include the quarterback situation.

D-Rod
04-11-2008, 08:08 AM
I think that the Giants would be nuts not to at least make a play for Boley...

They won't get a player even close to his calibre at #32...

Sveen
04-11-2008, 08:36 AM
Boley is very welcome in New Orleans next off-season :)

LonghornsLegend
04-11-2008, 09:18 AM
I think that the Giants would be nuts not to at least make a play for Boley...

They won't get a player even close to his calibre at #32...

I think he's worth a 1st rd tender also if you need him, but usually players just dont get signed when they get the tender slapped on him...I thought someone would bite on Chris Canty's 1st rd tender also and no one has.

ATLDirtyBirds
04-11-2008, 09:56 AM
Boley is very welcome in New Orleans next off-season :)



He will be staying. Thank you. And he is a top 5 SLB. No doubt.


Edit: Just for reference...more tackles then Briggs and Hawk. Same number of sacks of Briggs and Hawk combined. More FF and INTS then Briggs and Hawk combined.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-11-2008, 10:14 AM
I think that the Giants would be nuts not to at least make a play for Boley...

They won't get a player even close to his calibre at #32...


I am sure we will be content with drafting whoever is there. I trust Reese in making the right choice for this franchise.

Flyboy
04-11-2008, 10:38 AM
Boley is very welcome in New Orleans next off-season :)

I highly doubt he goes anywhere.

iloxygenil
04-11-2008, 11:54 AM
LOL. That's terrible. Take off those rose colored glasses.



He had a good year, but who would he replace? Ellis, Ware, Peterson, or Briggs?




He's barely entered the top five in his own division. He's still got Steve Smith and Marques Colston solidly ahead of him, and arguably Joey Galloway too. Lets move out into the NFC. Torry Holt, Terrell Owens, Plaxico Burress, Roy Williams, Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald are all better than him outside of his division. Factor in the AFC and you get Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Lee Evans, Braylon Edwards, Chad Johnson, TJ Houshmanzadeh, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Andre Johnson, and Brandon Marshall. That's at least 18 WRs who are better than White.
LOL @ you

18 WRs better than Roddy...the #8 WR in the NFL for yards last season...yeah...there's 18 better than that...oh WAIT. Roddy White is a physical specimine he's fast as all heck too. There are better...and like I said, there are some of the all time greats playing at WR right now, so until they're gone he won't be breaking into the top 5 anyway. But he's right there...and Colston and White are 2 different receivers...but I'd take White easily over him because of how many things he can do and how much of a threat he is to stretch the field. I like Colston think he's an incredible gem the Saints found and I'm pissed we have to play him 2 times a year...but it's okay...they have to see Roddy twice a year. I know he's only had 1 good year, it may be his only good year. But his ability and work ethic speak otherwise.

He's not top 5...but he's top 10 prolly...at least arguably...but no WORSE than top 15...not a chance in hell he's not top 15.

Flyboy
04-11-2008, 12:58 PM
This Roddy White lovefest is hilarious.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
04-11-2008, 01:24 PM
1,200 yards with Joey Harrington as the QB. Thats actually not too bad.

Calling White top 5-top 10 overall isn't warranted though because people can't avoid thinking about a players entire career when rating a player, especially since White only had 1 good year so far.

If you went by one season, White would be top 10. White has a lot of potential, has good speed and has gotten better every year. Tough to rate a guy like that on potential alone/1 season of production. If he proves it next season, top 10 is not out of the question.

Flyboy
04-11-2008, 01:32 PM
So Marques Colston would be Top 5 then. Awesome!

DragonFireKai
04-11-2008, 01:40 PM
He is. Everyone is going off of his 2006, where as Hall played amazing last year and very good two years ago. Rose colored glasses? He isn't on our team

Champ Bailey, Nnamdi Asomugha, Terrance Newman, Marcus Trufant, Asante Samuel, Rashean Mathis. I'd also take a healthy Lito Sheppard, and Al Harris assuming that he reverts to his 2006 form.

First of all he played as well as any of them, but due to name recognition Briggs, Peterson, and Ware all made it over him. But he should have made it over Ellis.

Over Ellis, who had 12.5 sacks? That's a tough sell.

I'll agree for the most part, but Wes Welker is not better than Roddy White. Roy Williams is overrated, he lacks production. Lee Evans is debatable, as is Brandon Marshall. You have to include the quarterback situation.

Roy Williams lacks production? He averages 70 yards and half a TD per game, and he lacks production compared to a WR who averaged 45 yards and .18 TDs per game? How? And how is Marshall debatable? Every argument against him and Evans, One year wonder, lacks threats on the other side, inexperienced QB, can be applied to White, and more so to White.

LOL @ you

18 WRs better than Roddy...the #8 WR in the NFL for yards last season...yeah...there's 18 better than that...oh WAIT.

Which of those 18 WRs I listed to you think White is better than?

Roddy White is a physical specimine he's fast as all heck too. There are better...and like I said, there are some of the all time greats playing at WR right now, so until they're gone he won't be breaking into the top 5 anyway. But he's right there...and Colston and White are 2 different receivers...but I'd take White easily over him because of how many things he can do and how much of a threat he is to stretch the field. I like Colston think he's an incredible gem the Saints found and I'm pissed we have to play him 2 times a year...but it's okay...they have to see Roddy twice a year. I know he's only had 1 good year, it may be his only good year. But his ability and work ethic speak otherwise.

He's not top 5...but he's top 10 prolly...at least arguably...but no WORSE than top 15...not a chance in hell he's not top 15.

You'd take White over Colston? You have 2 WRs who each have the same number of yards, and you're going to take the guy who scored 6 TDs over the guy who scored 11? wow.

Gay Ork Wang
04-11-2008, 01:47 PM
Champ and Aso would be the only ones id consider, maybe Trufant. Newman is not as great. Hall had an incredible season, he is still younger than some players in the draft. Asante has to show that he can succed in another system (Patriots system has shown that it makes alot of players better than they are.)
Mathis is good, not better thou. Al Harris is physical but got raped by bigger WR like Burress and TO. Lito is, even if healthy, a Top10 at best.

I really think Hall gets underrated alot by some people...

DragonFireKai
04-11-2008, 02:41 PM
Champ and Aso would be the only ones id consider, maybe Trufant. Newman is not as great. Hall had an incredible season, he is still younger than some players in the draft. Asante has to show that he can succed in another system (Patriots system has shown that it makes alot of players better than they are.)
Mathis is good, not better thou. Al Harris is physical but got raped by bigger WR like Burress and TO. Lito is, even if healthy, a Top10 at best.

I really think Hall gets underrated alot by some people...

Hall was targeted on 18% of the passes against the Falcons last year. That's the same as luminaries such as Darell Revis, Nick Harper, and Dre Bly, and by far the most of any of the regular defenders on the Falcons. His yards per attempt and success rate were run of the mill. He's bad in run support too. He's got blistering speed, but his technique is marginal.

Newman was targeted on 9% of the passes against the Cowboys, and the player across from him was targeted 21% of the time, and the player across from Newman has been among the most targeted players for 3 years straight. Other teams just don't throw to him.

Asante Samuel had a success rate of 62%, to put that in perspective, Champ Bailey had a sucess rate of 63%. And the Patriot "System" is over rated. Ty Law is the only DB who was as good in New England as Samuel, and he made the Pro Bowl with the Jets, despite being 31 years old and wracked with injuries.


Al Harris actually had his worst season in years, but made the pro bowl for the first time. But if he goes back to his 06 form, he's much better than Hall.

Lito, when healthy, can absolutely lock down recievers. As evidenced by the diference in TO's performance against the Eagles in the in the three games that sheppard was healthy, versus the one where he wasn't. He also baits QBs into throwing fatal INTs at the most inopportune moment.

Gay Ork Wang
04-11-2008, 02:52 PM
Well first the pro bowl is totally overrated.
second i dont even know what u wanna tell me with the success rate.

So if Hall was targeted 18% of the passes, isnt it incredible that he only allowed 1 TD?

Lito is good, locking down receivers doesnt mean he is top5 though. The Eagles wouldnt be look to trade him if he was that awesome

d34ng3l021
04-11-2008, 02:57 PM
This Roddy White lovefest is hilarious.

Uh yeah. As much as I love Roddy White, and I do, there is no way in HELL I would take him over Colston. Colston is a stud.

and...there go our bright green bars. :(

DragonFireKai
04-11-2008, 03:17 PM
Well first the pro bowl is totally overrated.
second i dont even know what u wanna tell me with the success rate.

Sucess rate is how often they hold their opponent under the requisite number of yards to deem a play sucessful. on first down, a play is sucessful if it gains 40% or more of the yards needed to gain a 1st down. on second down, a sucessful play is one that gains 50% of the yards needed to gain a first down. on third down, only plays that result in another 1st down are sucessful. If it's 3rd and 20, and you give up a 16 yard completion, congrats, you stopped them from a sucessful play.

So if Hall was targeted 18% of the passes, isnt it incredible that he only allowed 1 TD?

TDs allowed is more of a function of chance in the red zone. If a team targets their tight end the most in the red zone, Hall isn't going to be in on the play that gives up the TD. Depsite however much yardage they picked up at his expense during the drive.

Lito is good, locking down receivers doesnt mean he is top5 though. The Eagles wouldnt be look to trade him if he was that awesome

The Eagles have denied looking to trade Lito left and right. The rumors are being fueled by the media, just like everyone knew the Eagles were going to trade McNabb as soon as the season ended. Besides, by that criterea, DeAngelo Hall, who was actually traded, obviously isn't that awesome.

Shiver
04-11-2008, 03:22 PM
This thread offends me.

Flyboy
04-11-2008, 03:35 PM
This thread offends me.

It would. :)

bigbluedefense
04-11-2008, 03:44 PM
if the Falcons draft Matt Ryan #3 overall......yeah... thats not a good idea.

BamaFalcon59
04-11-2008, 05:16 PM
LOL @ you

18 WRs better than Roddy...the #8 WR in the NFL for yards last season...yeah...there's 18 better than that...oh WAIT. Roddy White is a physical specimine he's fast as all heck too. There are better...and like I said, there are some of the all time greats playing at WR right now, so until they're gone he won't be breaking into the top 5 anyway. But he's right there...and Colston and White are 2 different receivers...but I'd take White easily over him because of how many things he can do and how much of a threat he is to stretch the field. I like Colston think he's an incredible gem the Saints found and I'm pissed we have to play him 2 times a year...but it's okay...they have to see Roddy twice a year. I know he's only had 1 good year, it may be his only good year. But his ability and work ethic speak otherwise.

He's not top 5...but he's top 10 prolly...at least arguably...but no WORSE than top 15...not a chance in hell he's not top 15.


He is not top 10. Top 15 is iffy. If he does it another year, then maybe.


Champ Bailey, Nnamdi Asomugha, Terrance Newman, Marcus Trufant, Asante Samuel, Rashean Mathis. I'd also take a healthy Lito Sheppard, and Al Harris assuming that he reverts to his 2006 form.



Over Ellis, who had 12.5 sacks? That's a tough sell.



Roy Williams lacks production? He averages 70 yards and half a TD per game, and he lacks production compared to a WR who averaged 45 yards and .18 TDs per game? How? And how is Marshall debatable? Every argument against him and Evans, One year wonder, lacks threats on the other side, inexperienced QB, can be applied to White, and more so to White.



Which of those 18 WRs I listed to you think White is better than?



You'd take White over Colston? You have 2 WRs who each have the same number of yards, and you're going to take the guy who scored 6 TDs over the guy who scored 11? wow.

Obviously you are going off of his steriotype when discussing DeAngelo Hall. You are ignorant of the situation, so just stop discussing it.

Wow. 12.5 sacks. Once again the 3-4 OLB gets too much credit. Michael Boley does not blitz every single play! 3-4 OLBs are so overrated. 4-3 OLBs, especially strongside outside linebackers, do not generally pile up stats. Yet Boley still had a high number of tackles, and very good numbers of forced fumbles, interceptions, and sacks.

Yes, let's talk about three years when the guy just broke out. Is it uncommon for a wide receiver to break out in year three? No. You are twisting things. So let's compare this year.

Roy Williams
69.83 yards per game
838 yards
64 receptions
5 touchdowns
12 games
5.3 catches per game
13.1 yards a catch

Roddy White
75.13 yards per game
1,202 yards
84 receptions
6 TDs
16 games
5.9 receptions per game
14.5 yards a catch

Even if you compare Roy Williams 'amazing' 2006 season to White's 2007, it is not significantly better. Not to mention Roy Williams constantly misses games.

While Jon Kitna is not a great QB, he is better than what the Falcons have had, throwing for over 4,000 yards the past two seasons.

Marshall is debatable. Not only is the quarterback situation infinitely better, but this was their first year breaking out for both.

Lol, inexperienced QB? Our QBs are experienced. They just are not good. Cutler is inexperienced, but very good. Once again twisting things.

Lee Evans has a comparable situation to Roddy White. Too bad he had 400 less yards, 26 less receptions, and one TD less than White last year in the same amount of games. Roddy White is also more versatile, considering he can be used on screens, over the middle, and on deep routes.

I would put him on level with Colston, Marshall, Roy Williams and Greg Jennings. Above Galloway, Welker, and Lee Evans. I would say Roddy is on the outter edge of the top 15, and if he does it again next year he is top 10. Or should be.

Drew Brees- 28 TD, 89.4 passer rating, 4,423 yards
The Falcons- 18 TD, 78.91 passer rating, 3,573 yards

Hmm. He had the same number of yards, even though he was the primary target on a team with an excellent quarterback. He had six more TDs with that talented QB, and low and behold the QB had ten more TDs than the Falcons as a whole. Not to mention Colston is a redzone threat where as White is a yardage guy. Colston also had five, not six, more touchdowns than White. New Orleans also threw the ball 97 more times than Atlanta.

For kicks...

Marques Colston- 27.176% of teams receiving yards, 39% of teams receiving touchdowns, 22.72% of teams receptions
Roddy White- 33.641% of teams receiving yards, 33% of teams receiving touchdowns, 24.7% of teams receptions

I would say they are about equal.

BamaFalcon59
04-11-2008, 05:20 PM
Hall was targeted on 18% of the passes against the Falcons last year.

Watch the Falcons games last year and tell me that. And he was targeted more than Chris Houston? Please. Houston was a bull's eye. I don't care who gave you those stats, they are wrong.

Gay Ork Wang
04-11-2008, 05:32 PM
U cant say that because they had the same amount of percentage of the teams Receiving TDs they are equal. Roddy White was a bright spot in an horrible Offense, so its natural they depended on him alot more. Those numbers proof nothing

BlindSite
04-11-2008, 05:42 PM
Can you name 5 SLBs that are better?

Derrick Brooks
AJ Hawk
Derrick Johnson
Hunter Hillenmeyer
Thomas Davis

All players who I feel are better.

ATLDirtyBirds
04-11-2008, 05:45 PM
Derrick Brooks
AJ Hawk
Derrick Johnson
Hunter Hillenmeyer
Thomas Davis

All players who I feel are better.



That's funny. If that's who you feel are better players then you are sadly mistaken.

BamaFalcon59
04-11-2008, 05:56 PM
U cant say that because they had the same amount of percentage of the teams Receiving TDs they are equal. Roddy White was a bright spot in an horrible Offense, so its natural they depended on him alot more. Those numbers proof nothing

That wasn't the only point, if you read the post. But the point of those was to show significance to the team, and Roddy graded out high. It's not like New Orleans has a ton of weapons, despite a great offense. Colston, and to an extent Reggie Bush, was the only 'great' receiver on the offense last year. It also puts it in perspective, especially when considering pass attempts and completions. Stats are usually better when in percentages.

BNad
04-11-2008, 06:09 PM
Derrick Brooks
AJ Hawk
Derrick Johnson
Hunter Hillenmeyer
Thomas Davis

All players who I feel are better.

You'd take Derrick Brooks, in 2008, over Michael Boley? I don't know. I'd take Hawk and Johnson.. and the UGA homer in me would probably take Thomas Davis, if for no other reason than that he's a bulldog.

TitanHope
04-11-2008, 06:18 PM
Over Ellis, who had 12.5 sacks? That's a tough sell.

It's unfair to compare 4-3 OLB's and 3-4 OLB's as if they're the same position in terms of responsibility and duty, and you must factor in scheme.

OLB's in the 3-4 rush the passer regularly, so if you base superiority on Sack totals, then you're mistaken unless you're comparing 3-4 OLB's only.

If you base superiority on INT totals, then a 4-3 OLB like Thomas Howard, who led all LB's with 6 INT's and also had 11 PD's, would be found to be superior to a 3-4 OLB like DeMarcus Ware, who had 0 INT's and only 3 PD's all year.

A OLB on the Eagles or Giants may have better Sack totals than Keith Bulluck, but it only makes sense that a player in a blitz heavy scheme has more sacks than a player who plays in a scheme that rarely blitzes and relies on the Front 4 to cause pressure.

You must look across the board and take all factors into account. And if you do, you'll see that Michael Boley out-performed Greg Ellis in every category aside from Sacks. Actually, here's the differences between Boley and Ellis: Boley was +79 total tackles, -9.5 sacks, +2 INT's, +/- 0 FFum, +6 PD's in comparison with Ellis, and played all 16 games.

Overall, Boley was more productive, but production doesn't define reality. Ellis is asked to do one thing. Boley is asked to do another. Both were deserving of the Pro Bowl, and to say one is definitively better than the other would be incorrect.

I really wish that they'd allott it to two 4-3 OLB's and two 3-4 OLB's to be elligible for a conference Pro Bowl roster. Until then, we'll continue to see more Merriman, Vrabel, and Harrison's representing the AFC's OLB's, and their 4-3 equivelants being skipped over.

d34ng3l021
04-11-2008, 06:20 PM
Derrick Brooks
AJ Hawk
Derrick Johnson
Hunter Hillenmeyer
Thomas Davis

All players who I feel are better.

Thats funny, cause only Hunter Hillenmeyer and Thomas Davis are true SLBs. Brooks and Hawk are both weakside LBs. Derrick Johnson switched around between WLB and SLB and I believe he ended the season at SLB (strong finish I might add).

And Thomas Davis and Hunter over Boley? Really? I hate to just go off of stats, but heres how it stands:

Michael Boley: 109 tackles, 3 sacks, 7 PD, 2 interceptions, 4 FF
Thomas Davis: 88 tackles, 3 sacks, 5 PD, 1 interception, 2 FF
Hunter Hillenmeyer: 78 tackles, 0 sacks, 1 PD, 0 interceptions, 1 FF

I know it isnt the job of an SLB to rack up the stats, and Hillenmeyer deserves more credit than his stats show, but really?

DragonFireKai
04-11-2008, 06:40 PM
Obviously you are going off of his steriotype when discussing DeAngelo Hall. You are ignorant of the situation, so just stop discussing it.

Wow. 12.5 sacks. Once again the 3-4 OLB gets too much credit. Michael Boley does not blitz every single play! 3-4 OLBs are so overrated. 4-3 OLBs, especially strongside outside linebackers, do not generally pile up stats. Yet Boley still had a high number of tackles, and very good numbers of forced fumbles, interceptions, and sacks.

If you've got someone who's sixth in the league in sacks on the 3rd best past rush in the league, they're going to the pro bowl. Boley played well, but he didn't separate himself from other good OLBs like Ernie Sims, Karlos Dansby, and Thomas Howard. None of whom made the pro bowl.

Yes, let's talk about three years when the guy just broke out. Is it uncommon for a wide receiver to break out in year three? No. You are twisting things. So let's compare this year.

Yes, it's so unfair to compare someone with 4 years of experience to someone with 3 years. Fine, let's compare Roy's first three years to White's first three. After all, Roy William had his real breakout in year three too.

4.2 receptions per game
65.44 ypg
.53 TDs per game.

3.0 receptions per game
44.88 ypg
.19 TDs per game

Which one is lacking production?

Roy Williams
69.83 yards per game
838 yards
64 receptions
5 touchdowns
12 games
5.3 catches per game
13.1 yards a catch

Roddy White
75.13 yards per game
1,202 yards
84 receptions
6 TDs
16 games
5.25 receptions per game
14.5 yards a catch

Even if you compare Roy Williams 'amazing' 2006 season to White's 2007, it is not significantly better.

85.88 YPG
1,310 yards
82 receptions
7 TDs
16 games
5.13 receptions per game
16.0 YPC

That's significantly better than White's season. More yards, more TDs, more ypc. William's pre breakout was better than White's pre breakout, William's breakout year was better than White's breakout year. William's is ergo better than White.

While Jon Kitna is not a great QB, he is better than what the Falcons have had, throwing for over 4,000 yards the past two seasons.

There's a difference between better and more prolific. Detroit's QBs had a passer rating of 79.4, Atlanta's QBs had a passer rating of 78.9. the difference is negligable.

Marshall is debatable. Not only is the quarterback situation infinitely better, but this was their first year breaking out for both.

You're downgrading Marshall over having only played well for one year?

Lol, inexperienced QB? Our QBs are experienced. They just are not good. Cutler is inexperienced, but very good. Once again twisting things.

18 TDs to 21 TDs, 15 INTs to 15 INTs, 3,500 yards to 3,700 yards. True denver had better QB ratings, but not an absurd gap like you seem to imply.

Lee Evans has a comparable situation to Roddy White. Too bad he had 400 less yards, 26 less receptions, and one TD less than White last year in the same amount of games. Roddy White is also more versatile, considering he can be used on screens, over the middle, and on deep routes.

Evans' QB situation was much worse than White's last season. 18 TDs to 12 TDs, 15 INTs to 14 INTs, 3,500 yards to 2,800 yards. In 06, when the Bills had a slightly better QB situation, 19 TDs, 14 INTs, 3,000 yards, he produced more yards and TDs that White did in 07.

I would put him on level with Colston, Marshall, Roy Williams and Greg Jennings. Above Galloway, Welker, and Lee Evans. I would say Roddy is on the outter edge of the top 15, and if he does it again next year he is top 10. Or should be.

Drew Brees- 28 TD, 89.4 passer rating, 4,423 yards
The Falcons- 18 TD, 78.91 passer rating, 3,573 yards

Hmm. He had the same number of yards, even though he was the primary target on a team with an excellent quarterback. He had six more TDs with that talented QB, and low and behold the QB had ten more TDs than the Falcons as a whole. Not to mention Colston is a redzone threat where as White is a yardage guy. Colston also had five, not six, more touchdowns than White. New Orleans also threw the ball 97 more times than Atlanta.

I never said Colston had six more TDs than White.

For kicks...

Marques Colston- 27.176% of teams receiving yards, 39% of teams receiving touchdowns, 22.72% of teams receptions
Roddy White- 33.641% of teams receiving yards, 33% of teams receiving touchdowns, 24.7% of teams receptions

I would say they are about equal.

And what do you think those percentages mean? I just want to figure out how you think you're using them before I start poking holes in them.

Watch the Falcons games last year and tell me that. And he was targeted more than Chris Houston? Please. Houston was a bull's eye. I don't care who gave you those stats, they are wrong.

FO charts every play of every game. Who threw to who, who was in coverage, who made what play. On every play of every game. Can you say the same? Can you tell me the ratio between passes on which Houston was the primary defender versus how many Hall was? I doubt that.

It's unfair to compare 4-3 OLB's and 3-4 OLB's as if they're the same position in terms of responsibility and duty, and you must factor in scheme.

OLB's in the 3-4 rush the passer regularly, so if you base superiority on Sack totals, then you're mistaken unless you're comparing 3-4 OLB's only.

If you base superiority on INT totals, then a 4-3 OLB like Thomas Howard, who led all LB's with 6 INT's and also had 11 PD's, would be found to be superior to a 3-4 OLB like DeMarcus Ware, who had 0 INT's and only 3 PD's all year.

A OLB on the Eagles or Giants may have better Sack totals than Keith Bulluck, but it only makes sense that a player in a blitz heavy scheme has more sacks than a player who plays in a scheme that rarely blitzes and relies on the Front 4 to cause pressure.

You must look across the board and take all factors into account. And if you do, you'll see that Michael Boley out-performed Greg Ellis in every category aside from Sacks. Actually, here's the differences between Boley and Ellis: Boley was +79 total tackles, -9.5 sacks, +2 INT's, +/- 0 FFum, +6 PD's in comparison with Ellis, and played all 16 games.

Overall, Boley was more productive, but production doesn't define reality. Ellis is asked to do one thing. Boley is asked to do another. Both were deserving of the Pro Bowl, and to say one is definitively better than the other would be incorrect.

I really wish that they'd allott it to two 4-3 OLB's and two 3-4 OLB's to be elligible for a conference Pro Bowl roster. Until then, we'll continue to see more Merriman, Vrabel, and Harrison's representing the AFC's OLB's, and their 4-3 equivelants being skipped over.

I understand your point. Which was why I didn't say he was wrong, I simply said it would be a tough sell. The only part of your post I really disagree with is where you equate sacks to tackles on a 1:1 basis. In reality, it's closer to a 10:1 ratio. Most teams equate a 10 sack player with a 100 tackle player. This is because a sack has much further reaching implications on the fabric of the game. It's a more damaging hit, it takes away yards, rather than just stop the play, and because the QB handles the ball on every play, the consequences of a sack impact every play thereafter.

Caddy
04-11-2008, 06:40 PM
Damn the NFC South is full of some nasty homers. Joey Galloway = #1 receiver in the NFL!

BamaFalcon59
04-11-2008, 07:14 PM
If you've got someone who's sixth in the league in sacks on the 3rd best past rush in the league, they're going to the pro bowl. Boley played well, but he didn't separate himself from other good OLBs like Ernie Sims, Karlos Dansby, and Thomas Howard. None of whom made the pro bowl.



Yes, it's so unfair to compare someone with 4 years of experience to someone with 3 years. Fine, let's compare Roy's first three years to White's first three. After all, Roy William had his real breakout in year three too.

4.2 receptions per game
65.44 ypg
.53 TDs per game.

3.0 receptions per game
44.88 ypg
.19 TDs per game

Which one is lacking production?



85.88 YPG
1,310 yards
82 receptions
7 TDs
16 games
5.13 receptions per game
16.0 YPC

That's significantly better than White's season. More yards, more TDs, more ypc. William's pre breakout was better than White's pre breakout, William's breakout year was better than White's breakout year. William's is ergo better than White.



There's a difference between better and more prolific. Detroit's QBs had a passer rating of 79.4, Atlanta's QBs had a passer rating of 78.9. the difference is negligable.



You're downgrading Marshall over having only played well for one year?



18 TDs to 21 TDs, 15 INTs to 15 INTs, 3,500 yards to 3,700 yards. True denver had better QB ratings, but not an absurd gap like you seem to imply.



Evans' QB situation was much worse than White's last season. 18 TDs to 12 TDs, 15 INTs to 14 INTs, 3,500 yards to 2,800 yards. In 06, when the Bills had a slightly better QB situation, 19 TDs, 14 INTs, 3,000 yards, he produced more yards and TDs that White did in 07.



I never said Colston had six more TDs than White.



And what do you think those percentages mean? I just want to figure out how you think you're using them before I start poking holes in them.



FO charts every play of every game. Who threw to who, who was in coverage, who made what play. On every play of every game. Can you say the same? Can you tell me the ratio between passes on which Houston was the primary defender versus how many Hall was? I doubt that.



I understand your point. Which was why I didn't say he was wrong, I simply said it would be a tough sell. The only part of your post I really disagree with is where you equate sacks to tackles on a 1:1 basis. In reality, it's closer to a 10:1 ratio. Most teams equate a 10 sack player with a 100 tackle player. This is because a sack has much further reaching implications on the fabric of the game. It's a more damaging hit, it takes away yards, rather than just stop the play, and because the QB handles the ball on every play, the consequences of a sack impact every play thereafter.

Hence the probowl is flawed.

Ergo lets talk now, and last year Roddy was better.

1310 yards is 82, not 86, yards per game. 86 would be 1,376 yards.

More yards= a better chance to get the yards as a WR. 500 more yards, you are bound to get some of those.

The Falcons QB stats were dramatically boosted in the last fourth of the season. Prior to Chris Redman (who played 5 1/2 games), we had only 8 touchdowns on the season. Denver's QB play was much better than Atlanta's.

That is primarily because we threw the ball more. But even then, 55 receptions is horrible.

Importance, and percentages often show more than outright stats.

I watched the game. Please put a poll in the Falcons forum. We would not defend Hall because of 'homerism', he is not on the team. Houston was targeted more.

Let's use that then. tackle- one point, sack- ten points, ff- 10 points? (should be more), interception- 15 points

Michael Boley
109 tackles, 4 forced fumbles, three sacks, two interceptions

209 total points


Greg Ellis
31 tackles, 12.5 sacks, 3 forced fumbles, 0 interceptions

186 total points

31 tackles, 12.5 being sacks. That is 18.5 tackles outside of the sacks. That's not good.

DragonFireKai
04-11-2008, 08:26 PM
Hence the probowl is flawed.

And if they didn't take Ellis, but took Sims instead, would it be any different? There's legitimate grievances for 3 to 4 players at every position who can say that they played at a pro bowl level, but didn't get selected, simply because there weren't enough slots.

Ergo lets talk now, and last year Roddy was better.

Comparing based on one season is a flawed technique. White had a better season that Torry Holt, is he better than Torry Holt? No. Williams has the better body of work. He has better averages, and a better peak thus far.

1310 yards is 82, not 86, yards per game. 86 would be 1,376 yards.

Yeah, I hit the wrong number on the pad. Thanks for the correction though.

More yards= a better chance to get the yards as a WR. 500 more yards, you are bound to get some of those.

Not always. It depends on the distribution to other recievers. White was essentially the only recieving option. Roy Williams had to contend with Mike Furrey and Calvin Johnson. The key example I point to is the Colts and Marvin Harrison. While Peyton Manning's Play improved, as he threw for more yards and TDs, Marvin Harrison's raw numbers dropped. This was because Manning started looking away from Harrison and towards other targets.

The Falcons QB stats were dramatically boosted in the last fourth of the season. Prior to Chris Redman (who played 5 1/2 games), we had only 8 touchdowns on the season. Denver's QB play was much better than Atlanta's.

Which is compensated for by looking at the team passing statistics rather than the leading passer's statistics. In the whole scale of things, Denver had better QB play, but not an overwhelming edge like you seem to think.

That is primarily because we threw the ball more. But even then, 55 receptions is horrible.

Because you threw the ball more... right... That's why you the Falcons also had a significantly better passer rating last season too. The Bills had a 73.8 passer rating. That's terrible. 55 receptions isn't great, but when you consider that Roddy White has only averaged 47 receptions a season, versus Evans' average of 58, there isn't a whole lot of room for White to boast.

Importance, and percentages often show more than outright stats.

But they show what? That they force fed the ball to White due to a lack of other targets?

I watched the game. Please put a poll in the Falcons forum. We would not defend Hall because of 'homerism', he is not on the team. Houston was targeted more.

You watched the game? Singular? As I said, FO doesn't just watch every game, They chart every play. Can you tell me definitvely how many passes were thrown to Roddy White? Can you tell me every play that DeAngelo Hall was the primary defender? Can anyone on this forum tell me that? FO can.

Let's use that then. tackle- one point, sack- ten points, ff- 10 points? (should be more), interception- 15 points

Michael Boley
109 tackles, 4 forced fumbles, three sacks, two interceptions

209 total points


Greg Ellis
31 tackles, 12.5 sacks, 3 forced fumbles, 0 interceptions

186 total points

31 tackles, 12.5 being sacks. That is 18.5 tackles outside of the sacks. That's not good.

For one, you're drastically overestimating the value of a forced fumble, a forced fumble is essentially random chance. It could be a turnover, it could be nothing. It could be terrible for your team. Brian Dawkins forced a fumble in 2006 on Plaxico Burress that would up costing the Eagles the game. You also fail to differentiate between Tackles and Assists.

BamaFalcon59
04-11-2008, 08:50 PM
And if they didn't take Ellis, but took Sims instead, would it be any different? There's legitimate grievances for 3 to 4 players at every position who can say that they played at a pro bowl level, but didn't get selected, simply because there weren't enough slots.



Comparing based on one season is a flawed technique. White had a better season that Torry Holt, is he better than Torry Holt? No. Williams has the better body of work. He has better averages, and a better peak thus far.



Yeah, I hit the wrong number on the pad. Thanks for the correction though.



Not always. It depends on the distribution to other recievers. White was essentially the only recieving option. Roy Williams had to contend with Mike Furrey and Calvin Johnson. The key example I point to is the Colts and Marvin Harrison. While Peyton Manning's Play improved, as he threw for more yards and TDs, Marvin Harrison's raw numbers dropped. This was because Manning started looking away from Harrison and towards other targets.



Which is compensated for by looking at the team passing statistics rather than the leading passer's statistics. In the whole scale of things, Denver had better QB play, but not an overwhelming edge like you seem to think.



Because you threw the ball more... right... That's why you the Falcons also had a significantly better passer rating last season too. The Bills had a 73.8 passer rating. That's terrible. 55 receptions isn't great, but when you consider that Roddy White has only averaged 47 receptions a season, versus Evans' average of 58, there isn't a whole lot of room for White to boast.



But they show what? That they force fed the ball to White due to a lack of other targets?



You watched the game? Singular? As I said, FO doesn't just watch every game, They chart every play. Can you tell me definitvely how many passes were thrown to Roddy White? Can you tell me every play that DeAngelo Hall was the primary defender? Can anyone on this forum tell me that? FO can.



For one, you're drastically overestimating the value of a forced fumble, a forced fumble is essentially random chance. It could be a turnover, it could be nothing. It could be terrible for your team. Brian Dawkins forced a fumble in 2006 on Plaxico Burress that would up costing the Eagles the game. You also fail to differentiate between Tackles and Assists.

No, it is because of team play, not how the player plays. Sims and Boley both played better than Ellis. Team record is the only reason they did not make it. They are linebackers, not quarterbacks, so they should not be held completely accountable for the team record. Hence, the probowl is flawed.

Torry Holt would be different. Holt had more receptions and touchdowns than White, and only a few less yards. Roy Williams was much more inferior this year than Holt or White, who were close. Also, Holt has had amazing production in his career, where as Williams' production has not been so spectacular. I would put weight onto a Hall of Fame career like Holt's, but Williams' not so much.

Here come the percentages. Roy Williams' gets a certain number of the completed passes, such as those I charted for White and Colston. On average he would get _____ yards out of the 500. I'm sure it would not be exactly, but he would still get his. More yards equals more opportunities.

Why do you keep bringing up White's career? I am talking last year. Roddy White was a bust his first two seasons. He boomed last year. No reason to discuss prior to it. He was obviously a different player last year. He out performed Evans.

Which is why I said Redman boosted it. He had four games of over a 90 passer rating in his five major playing time games. He had one game with a 0.0 passer rating. The 90 passer rating games boosted the average just enough to look respectable, but for the majority of the season (10 games or more), the quarterback play was bad to downright atrocious.

They obviously can not. I know Chris Houston was targeted more. No point in throwing stats at me, because you did not watch the games. Watch them, then talk to me.

Skewed stats. You said tackles, the arguement failed for you, and you change it. Forced fumbles are worth as much as sacks, I am sure of that. It gives a 50-50 percent chance of a turnover, which is worth more than a loss of five yards.

TitanHope
04-11-2008, 09:22 PM
I understand your point. Which was why I didn't say he was wrong, I simply said it would be a tough sell. The only part of your post I really disagree with is where you equate sacks to tackles on a 1:1 basis. In reality, it's closer to a 10:1 ratio. Most teams equate a 10 sack player with a 100 tackle player. This is because a sack has much further reaching implications on the fabric of the game. It's a more damaging hit, it takes away yards, rather than just stop the play, and because the QB handles the ball on every play, the consequences of a sack impact every play thereafter.

I understand the differences between sacks and tackles, as well as their level of impact upon on the game. But, I'm afraid you misunderstood me when I was stating the differences between Boley and Ellis's production. I didn't display a ratio; I displayed a differential (ie. The differential between Boley's sack amount to Ellis's sack amount when compared is -9.5 sacks, since 3-12.5=(-9.5))...or atleast I think I know what I'm talking about. Well, either way, I hope you know what I'm talking about. I wasn't trying to equate tackles, sacks, INT's, etc. as all being equal.

So according to your formula, a Tackle:Sack equals 1:10. Boley has 110 total tackles, which is equivelant to 11 Sacks. Ellis has 31 total tackles, which is equivelant to a 3 Sack player, after rounding. Then, figure in actual sacks. Boley has 3 sacks. Ellis has 12.5 sacks. So the conclusion is:

Boley = 14 sack player
Ellis = 15.5 sack player

Ellis out does Boley by 1.5 sack with "sack" as the unit of measurement. But, what's the ratio for interceptions and pass defenses? Because Boley has the amount of 2 INT's and 6 PD's to add to his overall total after cancelling out Ellis's 1 PD and both player's 3 FFumbles.

If anything, this process has only highlighted how one-dimensional Greg Ellis is. *shrugs* Kinda sad when football is so slow that you come to the defense of another team's player. ;)

BamaFalcon59
04-11-2008, 09:46 PM
31 tackles is really bad, coupled with 12.5 of them being sacks, and no interceptions. Very one demensional. I'm not sure how the arguement can be made that he played better than Boley, who had great all around stats.

BlindSite
04-11-2008, 10:35 PM
No one is saying Boley isn't a solid linebacker and isn't a great addition to the youth movement in Atlanta, but he's not the best in the NFL at his position and in spite of his stats still has a lot of maturation ahead of him before he can be called a top 5 player.

BamaFalcon59
04-11-2008, 10:45 PM
No one is saying Boley isn't a solid linebacker and isn't a great addition to the youth movement in Atlanta, but he's not the best in the NFL at his position and in spite of his stats still has a lot of maturation ahead of him before he can be called a top 5 player.

You just listed Thomas Davis, Derrick Thomas, and AJ Hawk as top five playesr. Does that not apply to him? Boley, in my opinion, is as good as any of them. I am argueing him to be top five at his position, strongside linebacker. He is.

ATLDirtyBirds
04-12-2008, 07:04 AM
You just listed Thomas Davis, Derrick Thomas, and AJ Hawk as top five playesr. Does that not apply to him? Boley, in my opinion, is as good as any of them. I am argueing him to be top five at his position, strongside linebacker. He is.


Bingo. Espically Thomas Davis.

BamaFalcon59
04-12-2008, 07:59 AM
Bingo. Espically Thomas Davis.

I remember when Boley was coming out he said he was the best linebacker in the draft. I know a lot of people say that, and he definitely is not the unanimous best linebacker in that class, but it is cool to see a fifth round pick play like this.

ATLDirtyBirds
04-12-2008, 02:17 PM
I remember when Boley was coming out he said he was the best linebacker in the draft. I know a lot of people say that, and he definitely is not the unanimous best linebacker in that class, but it is cool to see a fifth round pick play like this.


I'm just calling out the Thomas Davis pick, because it's blatant homerism. You cannot compare their first seasons.(Davis only had 1 start) The second seasons are pretty close, but Boley was better. And this year Boley was definately better. So, besides the fact that he is a Panther, I'm not sure why he'd say he was better.

BamaFalcon59
04-12-2008, 02:22 PM
I'm just calling out the Thomas Davis pick, because it's blatant homerism. You cannot compare their first seasons.(Davis only had 1 start) The second seasons are pretty close, but Boley was better. And this year Boley was definately better. So, besides the fact that he is a Panther, I'm not sure why he'd say he was better.

More ironic is that we had Davis as one of the highest, if not the highest, rated players on our big board that year.

fenikz
04-12-2008, 02:34 PM
Can you name 5 SLBs that are better?

no but that is because most teams do not invest a lot of money into the SLB slot most good LBs play WLB or MLB

BamaFalcon59
04-12-2008, 02:42 PM
no but that is because most teams do not invest a lot of money into the SLB slot most good LBs play WLB or MLB

Which is why Boley is impressive. Although he covers the tight end, plays the strongside, takes on blockers, etc., he still puts up WLB stats.

d34ng3l021
04-12-2008, 02:44 PM
I personally value the SLB position alot more, but what you said is true. I think if you have the proper pieces in the front 7 (good DTs, SLB) you can find a MLB to free lance and find the runner easily. As long as the MLB is instinctive, he shouldnt have too much trouble bringing the runner down.

WLBs are eh. Dont really have too much of an opinion on them. They need to do their job or things can go really badly.

xooberon
04-12-2008, 03:07 PM
I'm just calling out the Thomas Davis pick, because it's blatant homerism. You cannot compare their first seasons.(Davis only had 1 start) The second seasons are pretty close, but Boley was better. And this year Boley was definately better. So, besides the fact that he is a Panther, I'm not sure why he'd say he was better.

why is it a homer statement? he is great in coverage, shown by how opposing TE's generally struggled against us, and he is very good at taking on blocks. him and boley are pretty even in my opinion with davis having the higher ceiling

d34ng3l021
04-12-2008, 03:09 PM
why is it a homer statement? he is great in coverage, shown by how opposing TE's generally struggled against us, and he is very good at taking on blocks. him and boley are pretty even in my opinion with davis having the higher ceiling

You cant ask how one statement is homeriffic and respond with a homer response.

xooberon
04-12-2008, 03:16 PM
You cant ask how one statement is homeriffic and respond with a homer response.

why am i a homer for saying that boley and davis are about equal now, but in the future davis might be better? give a reason, don't go crying and call me a homer

Gay Ork Wang
04-12-2008, 03:19 PM
cause ur saying that without any prove, just because he is on ur team

BamaFalcon59
04-12-2008, 03:26 PM
why is it a homer statement? he is great in coverage, shown by how opposing TE's generally struggled against us, and he is very good at taking on blocks. him and boley are pretty even in my opinion with davis having the higher ceiling

First of all, Boley has outperformed Davis statistically, even though he was a fifth round pick and Davis was the fourteenth overall pick.

Second of all, how does Davis have more potential?

I'm not sure how Davis has more. He is 6'0" 240, probably maxed out. Boley is 6'3", 240-245, and has been getting bigger since he entered the league at just over 230. They are both good in coverage, but Boley has put up more tackles when starting and is a better blitzer.

Let's talk speed, since you might bring it up.

Michael Boley
40: 4.56
20: 2.73
10: 1.65
Vertical: 34"
Broad Jump: 9'5"
20 yard shuttle: 4.12
3 cone drill: 7.08

Thomas Davis
40: 4.60
20: 2.71
10: 1.64
Vertical: 36"
Broad Jump: 9'7"
20 yard shuttle: 4.01
3 cone drill: 7.10

So, I fail to see how Davis has higher potential. Boley has better top end speed, and had a better three cone, and is three inches taller with better production. Davis has a slightly better burst, and a better 20 yard shuttle, although they both were good in that regard.

Finally, Boley has obviously progressed more than Davis. The fifth round pick has surpassed Davis when considering on the field production.

xooberon
04-12-2008, 03:28 PM
cause ur saying that without any prove, just because he is on ur team
i said this

why is it a homer statement? he is great in coverage, shown by how opposing TE's generally struggled against us, and he is very good at taking on blocks. him and boley are pretty even in my opinion with davis having the higher ceiling
watch any game film of davis this year and tell me i am lying

ATLDirtyBirds
04-12-2008, 03:33 PM
why am i a homer for saying that boley and davis are about equal now, but in the future davis might be better? give a reason, don't go crying and call me a homer

I can't compare there 05's because Boley was a part timer, and Davis only started one game.

2006

Boley: 85 Tackles, 67 solo, 3 sacks, 4 passes defended, 2 INTs. In 13 games started.

Davis: 88 Tackles, 69 solo, 1.5 sacks, 6 passes defended, 0 INTs. In 14 games started.

Stats are pretty close. This is with Thomas starting an extra game, but Boley saw some kind of field time in 16 games.


2007

Boley: 109 Tackles, 93 solo, 3 sacks, 7 passes defended, 2 INTs, 4 FF. 16 games started.

Davis: 88 tackles, 72 solo, 3 sacks, 5 passes defended, 1 INT, 2 FF. 16 games started.

They are both 25 years old. So I'd love to hear how Davis is better and has a brighter future.

Gay Ork Wang
04-12-2008, 03:36 PM
i said this


watch any game film of davis this year and tell me i am lying
u have no prove for the higher ceiling. Thats what i was referring to with no prove

BlindSite
04-12-2008, 06:54 PM
I'm just calling out the Thomas Davis pick, because it's blatant homerism. You cannot compare their first seasons.(Davis only had 1 start) The second seasons are pretty close, but Boley was better. And this year Boley was definately better. So, besides the fact that he is a Panther, I'm not sure why he'd say he was better.

I'm really not going to bother, because I'm never going change anyone's opinion but the way he reads the play and takes on fullbacks, tight ends and tackles in the run game is second to none. Not to mention his zone ability.

His stats aren't as good, but that doesn't mean **** in the NFL>

LonghornsLegend
04-12-2008, 07:06 PM
I'm really not going to bother, because I'm never going change anyone's opinion but the way he reads the play and takes on fullbacks, tight ends and tackles in the run game is second to none. Not to mention his zone ability.

His stats aren't as good, but that doesn't mean **** in the NFL>

And....you forgot to mention that he plays for the Panthers, so that automatically makes him twice as good, and probably better then anyone else who gets brought up in this thread.

d34ng3l021
04-12-2008, 07:07 PM
I'm really not going to bother, because I'm never going change anyone's opinion but the way he reads the play and takes on fullbacks, tight ends and tackles in the run game is second to none. Not to mention his zone ability.

His stats aren't as good, but that doesn't mean **** in the NFL>

So you are telling me that his ability to read plays and take on blockers is the best in the NFL. Wow. Not bad for a player who was playing safety only until a couple of years ago.

Vikes99ej
04-12-2008, 07:24 PM
http://www.firstandtensportsden.com/store/images/product_images/VINYLMAGNET-FALCONS.jpg



VS.



http://www.firstandtensportsden.com/store/images/product_images/VINYLMAGNET-PANTHERS.jpg


UlTIMATE HOMER FIGHT OF THE CENTURY! THERE WILL BE BLOOD!

Gay Ork Wang
04-12-2008, 07:27 PM
Tactica Lion vs Bearfan_51 arguing about the Lions D being a Top10 D was way better

scottyboy
04-12-2008, 07:28 PM
http://www.firstandtensportsden.com/store/images/product_images/VINYLMAGNET-FALCONS.jpg



VS.



http://www.firstandtensportsden.com/store/images/product_images/VINYLMAGNET-PANTHERS.jpg


UlTIMATE HOMER FIGHT OF THE CENTURY! THERE WILL BE BLOOD!


********, I want in on this!!!!!!


http://sportsevents.net/ncaa/football/images/rutgers_scarlet_knights.jpg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sex

BamaFalcon59
04-12-2008, 08:06 PM
Still waiting to hear how Davis' potential is higher, or how he has outperformed Boley to this point.

Gay Ork Wang
04-12-2008, 08:12 PM
He is a Panther, duh! He didnt have a Teammate playing with Dogs and he is a 1st round pick so his potential has to be higher! DuH!

BlindSite
04-12-2008, 08:16 PM
Unless a fan says their players suck they're homers.... whatever.

ATLDirtyBirds
04-12-2008, 09:35 PM
Still waiting to hear how Davis' potential is higher, or how he has outperformed Boley to this point.


He can cover people and read plays! Something Boley has never done.

BamaFalcon59
04-12-2008, 09:35 PM
He can cover people and read plays! Something Boley has never done.

Ahh, I see.

Draft King
04-12-2008, 09:53 PM
Michael Boley is Legend.


Seriously though he is a top 5 linebacker at his position, and Roddy and arguably a top 15 reciever.

thefalconer
04-12-2008, 10:29 PM
falcons' fans win? :)

BamaFalcon59
04-12-2008, 10:44 PM
falcons' fans win? :)

Well, at least we can do what the team can not.

d34ng3l021
04-12-2008, 11:08 PM
Awesome. If we cant win the actual games, we might as well win these arguments!

Atlanta Falcons: 0
Atlanta Falcons Fans: 1

Well done men.

Caddy
04-12-2008, 11:15 PM
When you're arguing against Panthers fans you should be able to win considering they have almost zero regular posters.

d34ng3l021
04-12-2008, 11:16 PM
Boley vs. your SLB. Bring it.

thefalconer
04-12-2008, 11:21 PM
haha i love the instigating.

BlindSite
04-13-2008, 02:34 AM
falcons' fans win? :)

Falcons fans never win, they just anoint themselves victorious when defeated.

d34ng3l021
04-13-2008, 02:47 AM
And Panther fans victorious statements always end with 'whatever.'

Caddy
04-13-2008, 03:00 AM
Boley vs. your SLB. Bring it.

SLB for the Buccaneers is being played by a WLB so :P .

d34ng3l021
04-13-2008, 03:17 AM
Is that a forfeit already? Come on.

Caddy
04-13-2008, 04:14 AM
Is that a forfeit already? Come on.

What??? Boley is a better SLB than June, I thought that was pretty obvious... but you are a falcon fan...

xooberon
04-13-2008, 05:07 AM
Second of all, how does Davis have more potential?

he probably doesn't, i just made a baseless claim. lulz


They are both good in coverage, but Boley has put up more tackles when starting and is a better blitzer.

based on what? the fact that he has more sacks? newsflash: trgo NEVER blitzes and when he does they are not at all well disguised or well timed. they are doomed to fail from the start. this does not mean that davis is not a good blitzer, he is, you only have to look at some of his game film to see.

again i do not think that davis is better than boley, they are both equally excellant SLB's and i was wrong for saying davis had more potential, thank you for showing me my error.

EDIT: sorry for bringing this back up again but i live in england so i was asleep for the whole 'falcons fans win' thing

BamaFalcon59
04-13-2008, 08:28 AM
he probably doesn't, i just made a baseless claim. lulz


based on what? the fact that he has more sacks? newsflash: trgo NEVER blitzes and when he does they are not at all well disguised or well timed. they are doomed to fail from the start. this does not mean that davis is not a good blitzer, he is, you only have to look at some of his game film to see.

again i do not think that davis is better than boley, they are both equally excellant SLB's and i was wrong for saying davis had more potential, thank you for showing me my error.

EDIT: sorry for bringing this back up again but i live in england so i was asleep for the whole 'falcons fans win' thing

When injuries struck our defensive ends in 2006 he became a third down pass rusher for a few games. This year he did is less often, because we needed him in coverage and to be able to fly to the ball. Also, in college he had like 30 something sacks, showing blitz ability.

On a side note, my rep is worth 20 points.

d34ng3l021
04-13-2008, 02:44 PM
What??? Boley is a better SLB than June, I thought that was pretty obvious... but you are a falcon fan...

I know, I was jk.

BlindSite
04-13-2008, 06:53 PM
When injuries struck our defensive ends in 2006 he became a third down pass rusher for a few games. This year he did is less often, because we needed him in coverage and to be able to fly to the ball. Also, in college he had like 30 something sacks, showing blitz ability.

On a side note, my rep is worth 20 points.

You really want to argue who was better playing around the line of scrimmage in college...

You forget at the college level Davis was considered one of the best in the nation. At the time being selected at 14 overall was considered a fall for Davis.

Flyboy
04-13-2008, 06:56 PM
You really want to argue who was better playing around the line of scrimmage in college...

You forget at the college level Davis was considered one of the best in the nation. At the time being selected at 14 overall was considered a fall for Davis.

Huh? No it wasn't. Most mocks had him going to the Saints.

BlindSite
04-13-2008, 07:06 PM
Huh? No it wasn't. Most mocks had him going to the Saints.

Not according to Rich McKay

CC.SD
04-13-2008, 07:07 PM
Boley vs. your SLB. Bring it.

Shaun Phillips or Merriman. Take your pick.

d34ng3l021
04-13-2008, 07:15 PM
Shaun Phillips or Merriman. Take your pick.

One of them isnt a SLB, Merriman is the SLB I think.

Boley doesnt let this happen to himself: http://youtube.com/watch?v=eTbCtjX_y0w

Next.

Flyboy
04-13-2008, 07:19 PM
Not according to Rich McKay

Most mocks had Davis going in the 15-20 range or so with the Saints being the likely selection of him.

Flyboy
04-13-2008, 07:22 PM
One of them isnt a SLB, Merriman is the SLB I think.

Boley doesnt let this happen to himself: http://youtube.com/watch?v=eTbCtjX_y0w

Next.

Reggie Bush has ran right past Boley, though. ;)

CC.SD
04-13-2008, 07:40 PM
One of them isnt a SLB, Merriman is the SLB I think.

Boley doesnt let this happen to himself: http://youtube.com/watch?v=eTbCtjX_y0w

Next.

Fail. They do switch around a lot, but Phillips lines up over the tight end more often than not.

Anyone can get caught in transition from playing the run to the pass. Watch his feet.

I don't think there's anyone around who would rather have Boley than Merriman. Phillips is a more interesting argument, since they were both second day picks who came up huge.

d34ng3l021
04-13-2008, 07:52 PM
Fail. They do switch around a lot, but Phillips lines up over the tight end more often than not.

Anyone can get caught in transition from playing the run to the pass. Watch his feet.

I don't think there's anyone around who would rather have Boley than Merriman. Phillips is a more interesting argument, since they were both second day picks who came up huge.

I was just kidding man. Merriman is a beast. I dont think can be compared that well cause the roles for a 3-4 OLB and 4-3 OLB are completely different. Phillips is also a beast.

BlindSite
04-13-2008, 07:55 PM
Reggie Bush has ran right past Boley, though. ;)

Interestingly enough, if anyone watched Thomas Davis he was one of the only linebackers in the NFL who was capable at containing michael vick and also capable of containing Reggie Bush as a pass catcher. Only once over the last two years has bush got the better of Davis and that was when Davis was picked by the tight end leading to a thirty yard catch.

CC.SD
04-13-2008, 08:07 PM
I was just kidding man. Merriman is a beast. I dont think can be compared that well cause the roles for a 3-4 OLB and 4-3 OLB are completely different. Phillips is also a beast.

That "Fail" definitely came across more serious than I'd like. You're right about the roles. Personally I think Boley could make it as a 3-4 OLB with a few more pounds on his frame, I've seen rush and it is a sight to see. Although I'd still take Phillips' first step over pretty much anyone's, including Merriman.

d34ng3l021
04-13-2008, 09:08 PM
That "Fail" definitely came across more serious than I'd like. You're right about the roles. Personally I think Boley could make it as a 3-4 OLB with a few more pounds on his frame, I've seen rush and it is a sight to see. Although I'd still take Phillips' first step over pretty much anyone's, including Merriman.

My bad in that case.

Yeah. The Chargers are kind of ridiculously talented. AJ Smith is a genius.

BamaFalcon59
04-13-2008, 09:52 PM
You really want to argue who was better playing around the line of scrimmage in college...

You forget at the college level Davis was considered one of the best in the nation. At the time being selected at 14 overall was considered a fall for Davis.

Blitzing? I don't think a SS like Davis beats out a guy with 10 sacks a year.

He was a better prospect, no doubt. But I doubt he did or does blitz as well as Boley. Boley is better.

BamaFalcon59
04-13-2008, 09:54 PM
I wanted Smith's assistent to be our general manager, he was mentioned as a canidate. Dimintroff was second for me, ahead of the guy from Philadelphia.