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Scott Wright
04-11-2008, 08:06 AM
At long last the new mock is now live and posted so please be sure to check it out. You can link to it via the main page:

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/

Note: If each page isn't dated "April 11, 2008" before the first pick you probably just need to refresh your browser!!!

As always constructive criticism is not only welcomed but encouraged, but please be sure to gives reasons behind your thoughts and opinions. Let's do our best to keep this thread informational, fun and productive.

WMD
04-11-2008, 08:11 AM
Jerod Mayo is definitely a high possibility to the Lions in Round 1.. Don't know so much about Ray Rice. They are said to be interested Anthony Collins..

Overall, I can see it happening but I wouldn't like it that much.. I just think we're ignoring our biggest needs (OT, DE) .. yet again..

Jakey
04-11-2008, 08:14 AM
I've gotta be honest Scott, im not liking that mock for the Steelers...They seem pretty certain that they are keeping Colon at RT, and they arent paying Max Starks 7 mill' for nothing. Also Jordyz Nelsonz is a reach there IMO, and i would hope they would draft with value abit more in mind. I'll have a think about what scenario i think is more realistic, and i'll get back to you.

EDIT: Good work on the whole though!

the decider13
04-11-2008, 08:17 AM
I would be pretty freakin happy with Clady and Laws. I can only hope they trade in to the third round and pick up earl bennett, which I have a good feeling about.

Damix
04-11-2008, 08:20 AM
A shame Porter doesn't fall one more pick. But very good draft for the Giants.

Jakey
04-11-2008, 08:21 AM
I've had a look through and i think the Steelers would draft...Sweed, Flowers, Groves, King, Cason, Avril or Rachal...over the 2 that you picked. They have had all of those players in for visits, except for Flowers IIRC.

NIN1984
04-11-2008, 08:21 AM
McFadden to Oakland is fine with me. I know reports are out Raiders really like Gholston but I just have a hard time seeing Al Davis passing on McFadden, I just can't see it. Unless Chris Long is on the board, that would be interesting.

D-Rod
04-11-2008, 08:21 AM
I'm pretty much certain that the Falcons will trade up, but if they don't, to still get Dorsey, Brohm, Cason and Collins would be absolutely sensational...

The Legend
04-11-2008, 08:22 AM
intresting Ryan to Chiefs, Devin Thomas #1WR, Jerod Mayo i like him going top 16

i question DRC #19 seems a bit far with the way his stock is rising

thou i think its the right place for him. did it have anything to do with his heath record?

i thought Campbell (miami) was for sure out of the 1st round

with all the seahawk running back you think they will add another? intresting

Flowers i know he fits the packers system but do think packers maybe scared to take him

i like Falcco for the ravens but is Oniel Cousins a bit of a reach for the Packers

KaneMarko
04-11-2008, 08:23 AM
At long last the new mock is now live and posted so please be sure to check it out. You can link to it via the main page:

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/

Note: If each page isn't dated "April 11, 2008" before the first pick you probably just need to refresh your browser!!!

As always constructive criticism is not only welcomed but encouraged, but please be sure to gives reasons behind your thoughts and opinions. Let's do our best to keep this thread informational, fun and productive.

I know Brodie Croyle still has a ton of question marks and even more to prove. But I'm not sure I see KC taking Matt Ryan. I think if Dorsey and Long are off the board (which they probably will be) I think they'll probably go Sed Ellis. I know they took Tank Tyler and Turk McBride last year. Tyler looks like he might have the potental to play. But Turk, at best, may be a Jimmy Wilkerson type backup tweener.

So I think the Chiefs will probably pass on Matt Ryan and probably take Sed Ellis assuming Dorsey and Jake Long are off the board. They'd probably prefer to trade down in that scenario. But it's hard to find some one to trade into the top 5. So I'm thinking the pick will be Sed Ellis.

AkiliSmith
04-11-2008, 08:25 AM
I'm kind of surprised Matt Forte didn't go in round 2. I thought his stock was way up. Any chance he'd be available with the Bengals 3rd round pick?

Gay Ork Wang
04-11-2008, 08:25 AM
Otah and Chad Henne... not happy, id like to see Chris Williams with his potential. Its probably preference though. Id prolly like to see Flacco over Henne too

Matthew Jones
04-11-2008, 08:26 AM
If you ask me I think both Thomas and Vrabel are significantly better playing outside (Vrabel was on the downside of his career inside, then had what, 12.5 sacks this year outside? Thomas disappeared for LONG stretches inside and picked up a ton of sacks outside once Colvin went down), and I don't think Harvey is so much better than Rivers that it would be worth it to displace one of the outside linebackers. I'd rather have Rivers than Harvey for the Patriots.

Not sure how much I like Tracy Porter there. He's a decent value but I'm just not sure he's a good system fit. The Patriots are said to love Chevis Jackson.

GermanSaint
04-11-2008, 08:28 AM
it seems you want to give us a TE every year.... won´t happen and rivers is still a reach AND not the way the FO drafts , especially with clady on the board

Thrawn
04-11-2008, 08:32 AM
I'd like to make a slight update/correction on your analysis of the Rams first pick, although I don't hink the conclusion changes at all.

Although James Hall was cut earlier in the offseason to get his 3M salary and a roster bonus off the books, he was resigned later on for less money. This doesn't resolve the DE situation for the Rams since he was a disappointment last season, but just wanted to get this addition out there.

Sveen
04-11-2008, 08:35 AM
I like Rivers in the first with both Ellis and Dorsey gone. I don't know about Keller in the 2nd though. We could absolutely use a young guy at the position, but I would have liked to see us go defense with that pick also. Good, but now great Saints Draft.

PACKmanN
04-11-2008, 08:36 AM
Scott I don't think we will take an OT early, Colledge will be the first person to get a chance at LT, if he fails then we would consider it. And I think there a link somewhere stating that the Packers will not consider a CB below the height of 5'11.

The Legend
04-11-2008, 08:42 AM
i think we need a tackle Mark is in his last year of his contract so we may need a replacement

but Colledge is beter suit on the right side IMO, so i think we need a future LT
i question Oniel Cousins thou there maybe beter Tackles, Carl Nicks if hes there hes ZBS

Young Legend
04-11-2008, 08:43 AM
As expected for the Raiders. Him or Gholston.

Or Moyal
04-11-2008, 08:50 AM
Scratch that, I had the march 17th mock up for page 1.

Comphockey7
04-11-2008, 08:50 AM
Id much rather Rivers at that spot over Harvey. To me Harvey just seems more like a DE than a OLB.

2nd round is a great pick

Gay Ork Wang
04-11-2008, 08:52 AM
Scratch that, I had the march 17th mock up for page 1.
Refresh the page

Edit: okay nvm

TheGreatEscape
04-11-2008, 08:53 AM
I really think will try and trade back a little to grab a guy like King or Porter with better value and than grab jackson or smith with the other second.

Caddy
04-11-2008, 09:01 AM
If that is how the Buccaneers draft day panned out I would be an extremely happy man. Almost as happy as if the Bucs drafted Jackson.

IowaJag
04-11-2008, 09:02 AM
Lawrence Jackson at 26 seems like one of the biggest reaches in the first round. I know hes a need, but I hope it works out like Kalif Barnes did and dropps to the Jaguars in the second; allowing the Jags to take BAP in the first.

Flyboy
04-11-2008, 09:09 AM
Keith Rivers and Dustin Keller, eh? I can definitely live with that. I won't be surprised if we addressed defense in the second around again if there is a highly rated DT or CB available if we do select Rivers at 10.

mqtirishfan
04-11-2008, 09:13 AM
I like the Packers draft in terms of who we got, but not quite as much in terms of who we left on the board in the 1st round. While it's obvious we need CBs for the future (and more depth now), I think the need for a safety is higher, and the if an impact safety like Kenny Phillips was there, they'd have to take him. I think he's a better talent than Flowers, and at a position of at least equal need. I love Oniel Cousins in our offense, and I also love Carlson.

The Legend
04-11-2008, 09:23 AM
have to agree Phillips over Flowers and i like Flowers alot but his character issues worry me

Thunder&Lightning
04-11-2008, 09:24 AM
have agree Phillips over Flowers and i like Flowers alot not to metion his character issues

I dont think character issues are a major concern for phillips anymore though...

The Legend
04-11-2008, 09:28 AM
yeah thats why i edited my post i ment Brandon Flowers

art vandelay
04-11-2008, 09:35 AM
I like Devin Thomas and Justin King. Good job.

LonghornsLegend
04-11-2008, 09:35 AM
Scott can you please explain why you keep pegging Talib to Dallas?


We need our corners to play alot of man to man coverage, which Talib struggles with(Jordy Nelson?), he is more of a zone, read and react guy like the Patriots system, or Asante Samuel, I believe even Samuel would struggle in our scheme so why would Talib be so great? Cason, Godfrey, Molden, King are all better fits at corner for what we ask of them, the only time we ran a majority of zone was when Reeves and Roy were in the game and it was to mask their defencies...When we had a healthy Newman and Henry both, ideally we were trying to play man and send more to rush the passer, Talib would struggle if asked to do that imho.


Also I dont think we, nor Jerry, is as high on Felix Jones as everyone makes it out to be.

Thunder&Lightning
04-11-2008, 09:36 AM
yeah thats why i edited my post i ment Brandon Flowers

my mistake misread it... i still dont think flowers character issues are that majjor though.

Thunder&Lightning
04-11-2008, 09:44 AM
besides falcons the chiefs and 9ers had a pretty good first 2 rounds.

steelernation77
04-11-2008, 09:51 AM
I think I'm in the minority of Steeler fans on this board when I say I don't mind the Gosder pick. He's nasty and I feel like would bring some dominating attitude back to a line that seems complacent.

However, I'm not sold on the Nelson pick. Yes, Ben did say he would like a big receiver, but I believe that was Ben thinking nostalgically of Plaxico. Nelson is bigger, but I don't believe he's what Ben had in mind.

What I do see is that there are ALOT of guys that you have picked after us that the Steelers have invited for visits (the Steelers usually pick those guys) and that would fill needs.

Cliff Avril, Charles Godfrey, Dre Moore, and Tracy Porter are all guys who play positions we lack depth at, and they could start in the next year or so.

Erin Henderson hasn't been in for a visit but is also a possibility.

The darkhorse is Chris Johnson, who has been in for a visit, and would not be the "tall WR' that Ben wants, but would certainly add another dimension to our offense.

Don Vito
04-11-2008, 09:56 AM
I personally love the Pats draft. Harvey is one of my favorite players in this class and I've been supportive of taking him at #7 if Gholston and Long are gone for a while. Porter is a good talent and we need a young corner, he also is a pretty good fit for our scheme. Cason would be ideal but he will not last until the end of the second.

Why the Bengals
04-11-2008, 10:02 AM
Hopefully Ellis falls to the Bengals. I like the charatcer pick of Dan Connor in the second round, however with the way Chad is complaing and with the realease of Henry I think they may nab Doucet if he is still available. ALthough I believe the Bengals need help on D and think Marvin is going to send a message to Chad in this draft.

ATLDirtyBirds
04-11-2008, 10:03 AM
Amazing Falcons mock.

umphrey
04-11-2008, 10:05 AM
why, why, why Flowers

I spent so much time arguing why we would never take him

lordquas
04-11-2008, 10:08 AM
i like the mock a lot. especially the ravens. i dont like calias campbell and lawrence jackson in the 1st however.

Oaktown1981
04-11-2008, 10:23 AM
McFadden is a good pick for the Raiders he would give them a playmaker on offense something they don't have right now.

I still think Sed Ellis is a possibility to be drafted by the Raiders too.. He impressed the coaching staff at the senior bowl..

Overall good mock..

619
04-11-2008, 10:26 AM
Awesome job Scott. I'm fairly optimistic as well it's either McFadden or Gholston for the Raiders right now. Love em both so I'd be a very happy man which ever way they would go.

Skibow
04-11-2008, 10:28 AM
I highly doubt the Bears will go QB in the 1st 2 rounds, and the only QB I see the Bears possibly taking there is Joe Flacco, and that's only because they've been scouting him for more than 2 years. The Bears do need a 3rd QB, but they are still a "win now" team and no QB in this draft will help the Bears achieve that in '08. I'd guess the Bears wait until their later 3rd (90th) or 4th round earliest to address QB.

Last year, the Bears D was riddled with injury, and the O-line got old and weak seemingly overnight. To get the Bears back in contention they need a top notch RT, and a top notch OG before anything. Bears also need a RB and WR. Remember, the Bears slogan on offense is to "get off the bus running", so they need to solidify the O-line, and bring in competition for the underwhelming, borderline bust, pseudo workhorse, injury prone Cedric Benson.

So Scott, these are the Bears needs in order you should consider:

Run blocking RT
Run blocking OG
RB
WR

Then QB
Then DT
Then Safety

Keep up the great work as usual (been a fan for a few years now) and I know its hard to please all the savvy drafnik fans out there.

MetSox17
04-11-2008, 10:28 AM
I would LOVE to walk away in the first round Kenny Phillips and another DB, but that might not happen.

I guess Aqib Talib is okay for that pick..

But i don't see the Cowboys passing on DeSean Jackson to take Felix Jones,
when they could have Jamaal Charles in the 2nd round. Even Chris Johnson if they trade up a little.

iloxygenil
04-11-2008, 10:34 AM
I just hope that the top 3 falls that way, Glen Dorsey to ATL would be wonderful, and if we can land THOSE players in round 2...look out. Cason has been one of my favorite CBs for quite some time. His ability as a return guy is a big addition for a team like Atlanta. If the top 2 rounds go this way I'd be excited.

Gay Ork Wang
04-11-2008, 10:39 AM
I highly doubt the Bears will go QB in the 1st 2 rounds, and the only QB I see the Bears possibly taking there is Joe Flacco, and that's only because they've been scouting him for more than 2 years. The Bears do need a 3rd QB, but they are still a "win now" team and no QB in this draft will help the Bears achieve that in '08. I'd guess the Bears wait until their later 3rd (90th) or 4th round earliest to address QB.

Last year, the Bears D was riddled with injury, and the O-line got old and weak seemingly overnight. To get the Bears back in contention they need a top notch RT, and a top notch OG before anything. Bears also need a RB and WR. Remember, the Bears slogan on offense is to "get off the bus running", so they need to solidify the O-line, and bring in competition for the underwhelming, borderline bust, pseudo workhorse, injury prone Cedric Benson.

So Scott, these are the Bears needs in order you should consider:

Run blocking RT
Run blocking OG
RB
WR

Then QB
Then DT
Then Safety

Keep up the great work as usual (been a fan for a few years now) and I know its hard to please all the savvy drafnik fans out there.
It could be any kind of Tackle, Tait is a better RT than LT

princefielder28
04-11-2008, 10:43 AM
overall, solid work scott

Scott Wright
04-11-2008, 11:02 AM
I'd like to make a slight update/correction on your analysis of the Rams first pick, although I don't hink the conclusion changes at all.

Although James Hall was cut earlier in the offseason to get his 3M salary and a roster bonus off the books, he was resigned later on for less money. This doesn't resolve the DE situation for the Rams since he was a disappointment last season, but just wanted to get this addition out there.

Thanks for pointing that out, I'll get it corrected. That honestly escaped my radar.

Scott Wright
04-11-2008, 11:03 AM
On Brandon Flowers, his character concerns are very minor.

Basically it's all about the photo on his Facebook page but just last night I spoke with sources VERY close to him and he didn't take the picture, post the picture or write the caption. He takes the blame for not removing it sooner but that is not being weighed heavily against him.

princefielder28
04-11-2008, 11:06 AM
On Brandon Flowers, his character concerns are very minor.

Basically it's all about the photo on his Facebook page but just last night I spoke with sources VERY close to him and he didn't take the picture, post the picture or write the caption. He takes the blame for not removing it sooner but that is not being weighed heavily against him.

Would it be correct to assume that his size is the biggest issue for NFL teams???

Scott Wright
04-11-2008, 11:07 AM
Would it be correct to assume that his size is the biggest issue for NFL teams???

I'd say the speed is more of a concern than the size, but it's never good to be short and slow.

The Legend
04-11-2008, 11:10 AM
in your oppion whats the chance the Packers actually Brandon Flowers

ErikG803
04-11-2008, 11:12 AM
Great job for Seattle, Scott. I was beyond pleased to see you didn't have us taking Keller this time, as he makes almost no sense for our traditional WCO.

Love, love, LOVE this one.

vidae
04-11-2008, 11:15 AM
I'm not in love with the Matt Ryan pick. While it's true that Croyle has struggled, going winless in his starts in a KC uniform, more attention needs to be paid to his supporting cast. Is Matt Ryan an upgrade to Croyle? Almost definitely, but without an offensive line, he will have no shot.

We need at least three starters on the offensive line from this draft alone. I guess I would have rather reached for an offensive lineman there, but if the Chiefs are really in for a 2-3 year rebuilding process, I guess I can't be too upset at a "potential" franchise QB.

I really enjoy your mocks. That's actually what got me on this site in the first place.

Brothgar
04-11-2008, 11:33 AM
I don't know why the Cowboys take Felix Jones instead of a Chris Johnson. There is the Arkansas connection but the last player from Arkansas drafted by the Cowboys was Jerry Dossey in 1970. Where as Johnson is faster more elusive and I'd say more versatile than Jones. Just my opinion but I'd like to know your take on it.

EDIT PS. Although I wouldn't be exactly happy with that Lions draft I could see it happening.

Packman1957
04-11-2008, 11:33 AM
I'm okay with the Flowers pick I guess, but I really think whatever the case is we go BPA at #30. I also like how you mentioned the trade down possibility, because it could happen somewhere around there and I would say the Packers are good candidates in that situation. Especially with both Cason and Flowers on the board.

John Carlson is a good 2nd round pick, after he fixed his 40 time to 4.67 I have a little more confidence in his ability to stretch the field. Nice Pick there.

I am not a big fan of the Oneil Cousins pick, little bit of a reach, and I guess I am little confused why you have Cousins over Nicks there. IMO Nicks is a surefire 2nd rounder and I really think he fits the zone blocking scheme.

Also a few other things to note, I really don't think DRC falls that far. I just don't see it IMO. Calais Campbell is too high, maybe your right someone will gamble on his services but boy oh boy not quite that high. Jonathan Stewart to the Seahawks is somewhat intriguing. But they have four running backs right now Alexander, Jones, Morris, and Duckett. I just don't see them adding another one. I know Stewart is good value there but I think they have more pressing needs to address like DT, TE, OL, WR. Lawrence Jackson is a little too high there, and I think Balmer would be the selection in that circumstance.

Also don't you think Sam Baker will fall farther down charts with his posting of a 5.5 40 time. I think his stock is in a decline right now, and I wouldn't be surprised if he fell to the bottom of the 2nd, or even into the 3rd.

Just my opinion though. No one's mock is perfect I understand. Very good effort put forth, and all of it was very well thought out. Great job in putting this together. I thought it was solid overall.

G-Men88
04-11-2008, 11:34 AM
Very Good Giants draft. Broke my heart seeing Porter go one pick before our pick in the 2nd though.

Scotty D
04-11-2008, 11:36 AM
Wow you took my top two favorite targets for the Lions. Exactly how I would go. Love it.

derza222
04-11-2008, 11:47 AM
For the Jets:

I like the first round pick. We definitely could use some pass rush as you said. That said, I'm not sold Gholston is going to be there, just a gut feeling. I think the Raiders go after him at 4, but obviously you know more than me. Liked the analysis as the Raiders/Jets discussion was pretty much spot on and I liked the mention of Ryan as well that's intriguing.

In the second, do you really think we pass up on Cason? Obviously Hardy is a good pick and fills a need but Cason seems to be a great fit as a #2 corner, has a much higher floor IMO, is a very nice value in round 2, and would be more ready to contribute next season for a team that is apparently trying to win now. Plus corner is a bigger immediate need than wideout. Just my thoughts there, obviously it's not a bad pick but I wonder if Cason is a better/more realistic one given what the FO is trying to do, the players ability to contribute early, and need/value.

Flyboy
04-11-2008, 11:48 AM
On Brandon Flowers, his character concerns are very minor.

Basically it's all about the photo on his Facebook page but just last night I spoke with sources VERY close to him and he didn't take the picture, post the picture or write the caption. He takes the blame for not removing it sooner but that is not being weighed heavily against him.

LOL. Goddamned Facebook strikes again!

Who Dat Nation
04-11-2008, 12:16 PM
Keith Rivers and Dustin Keller, eh? I can definitely live with that. I won't be surprised if we addressed defense in the second around again if there is a highly rated DT or CB available if we do select Rivers at 10.

I like it too.

It wouldn't totally surprise me if we picked a TE in round 2.

There has been plenty rumors in us trading for Jeremy Shockey. I wouldn't really want that trade. I would much rather draft Keller or another TE in a later round.

Geo
04-11-2008, 12:23 PM
If the Colts could have their pick of Chris Johnson and Early Doucet, that would be great.

Captain Canuck
04-11-2008, 12:40 PM
I'm pretty happy with the Bills draft, not too high on King though. I'd prefer Charles Godfrey, as he can play S too, and we need someone versatile just in case Ko goes down again, or isn't the same after the injury. The other guy I'd like if not a CB, would be Cliff Avril, the Bills need a great situational pass rusher in their rotation.

roidrunner
04-11-2008, 12:42 PM
so scott. very solid mock, my only problem is that we will not take flowers in round one, IMO. I really hate the guy. he just does not do it for me. i just dont like slow small corners, i guess. i would much rather see kenny Phillips there. man that would be a sweet pick up, and with Collins not doing so well, and Bigby who still has the jury out on him. could you please not give us Flowers.

A Perfect Score
04-11-2008, 12:44 PM
well, i have several thigns to say...first off, great mock scott. I really liked everything that happened in this one for the most part. For the ravens however...

if groves is available at our 2nd round pick, i think we pull the trigger. Him and t sizzle coming off the edge is jsut scary, and rex ryan could do wonders with his speed and athleticism...although i think flacco is a possibility, id much rather have someone like josh johnson or andre woodson in round 3.

i like leodis mcklevin, but for some reason im not sold on him. Wat is stopping that pick from being mike jenkins? jenkins playted against better competition, is an accomplished returner as well, and ran a 4.4 at teh combine. I think he might be a better fit for us, although a guy id really love to see in a ravens uni is brandon flowers. He reminds me of antoine winfield. ALthough the only way i see that happening is if we get ryan in the first and flowers falls to our 2nd rounder.

other then that, great job. really looking forward to the final one before the draft.


on a totally separate note, is the draft on the friday night or the saturday morning this year?

FloridaFootball
04-11-2008, 12:44 PM
Scott,

If the redskins drafted Calias Campbell with their first round pick is his weight a concern at all? Or for that matter not just the redskins, whatever team drafts him do you think they'll want him to drop weight to gain some speed. I know hes like 6'8 and weighs nearly 290lbs...if he got down to 265 don't you think he would be running in the 4.7's? I just don't want the skins to draft him and us basically having a player with defensive tackle speed trying to rush the corner.

Geo
04-11-2008, 12:54 PM
I'm pretty happy with the Bills draft, not too high on King though. I'd prefer Charles Godfrey, as he can play S too, and we need someone versatile just in case Ko goes down again, or isn't the same after the injury. The other guy I'd like if not a CB, would be Cliff Avril, the Bills need a great situational pass rusher in their rotation.
My thought when looking at the Draft, I would have liked to have seen Falcons/Cason and Bills/King switched, as better scheme fits maybe.

villagewarrior
04-11-2008, 12:55 PM
I'd be pretty unhappy with those two rounds for the Chiefs if that actually came to fruition. I think taking Matt Ryan is easily the worst case scenario draft day for the Chiefs, and I buy into the whole take the franchise QB if you don't already have one theory, but I don't buy into the Matt Ryan is a franchise QB theory at all. This QB class is thoroughly underwhelming.

And I think Baker doesn't fit in at all with what the Chiefs are trying to do. Baker would have been perfect under Vermeil, but I think Herm is trying to build more of a smashmouth running offense and I honestly don't see Baker being that kind of a player.

I'd rather that they reach for Clady, Williams or Otah at 5 or even go with Ellis as opposed to Ryan, then go with Rachal or a WR or a CB in round two.

T-RICH49
04-11-2008, 12:55 PM
while I like Ryan.Branden Albert and Antoine Cason would make for a better KC draft IMHO

Flyboy
04-11-2008, 12:56 PM
I like it too.

It wouldn't totally surprise me if we picked a TE in round 2.

There has been plenty rumors in us trading for Jeremy Shockey. I wouldn't really want that trade. I would much rather draft Keller or another TE in a later round.

All depends on what it would take to get Shockey imo.

Geo
04-11-2008, 12:56 PM
Aren't the Chiefs going more zone-blocking on the offensive line? I thought I read that.

T-RICH49
04-11-2008, 01:01 PM
Aren't the Chiefs going more zone-blocking on the offensive line? I thought I read that.

maybe.I don't know maybe someone else can confirm that

seahawks851
04-11-2008, 01:03 PM
That's like the ideal draft for the Seahawks. Best case scenario. I love it.

villagewarrior
04-11-2008, 01:10 PM
Aren't the Chiefs going more zone-blocking on the offensive line? I thought I read that.

That was rumored, but never confirmed. If that is the case then Baker makes sense, but I don't remember Herm or Chan Gailey running much of a zone system, they seem to be more power running game guys (now, I could be wrong about their histories, I'm not gonna pretend to know for sure).

Vikes99ej
04-11-2008, 01:13 PM
I really do not want Merling. We need speed on our defensive line, not someone who compares to Trevor Pryce. Chris Williams would be a much better choice.

seahawks851
04-11-2008, 01:15 PM
Btw if the options don't fall this way for Seattle, I think they could possibly go Kenny Phillips. Grant and Russell are both older players and Russell specifically is maybe a tad above average on a good day. Behind those two there's nothing at all. Russell's contract also isn't much at all.

Dr. Gonzo
04-11-2008, 01:18 PM
You are right Vikes99ej, we don't need Merling. Williams is the must better choice there as we could probably get someone almost as good as Merling with our second choice. I have heard that the Vikings are not fans of Merling and I agree, he does not really provide what we need.

I like Smith in the second but I personally think that S is not a top priority. I think the Vikings probably go with the best OT or TE available. Then again, who knows what will happen come draft day.

PalmerToCJ
04-11-2008, 01:19 PM
I would be freaking PUMPED with that Bengals mock.

EXACTLY what we need. An interior presence that can rush the passer and a smart/hard working LB... Both of great value. Couldn't ask for more.

LonghornsLegend
04-11-2008, 01:42 PM
Scott can you please explain why you keep pegging Talib to Dallas?


We need our corners to play alot of man to man coverage, which Talib struggles with(Jordy Nelson?), he is more of a zone, read and react guy like the Patriots system, or Asante Samuel, I believe even Samuel would struggle in our scheme so why would Talib be so great? Cason, Godfrey, Molden, King are all better fits at corner for what we ask of them, the only time we ran a majority of zone was when Reeves and Roy were in the game and it was to mask their defencies...When we had a healthy Newman and Henry both, ideally we were trying to play man and send more to rush the passer, Talib would struggle if asked to do that imho.


Also I dont think we, nor Jerry, is as high on Felix Jones as everyone makes it out to be.



Still waiting for a little explanation on the Talib pick.

Scott Wright
04-11-2008, 01:54 PM
Still waiting for a little explanation on the Talib pick.

Anthony Henry isn't a man cover guy either...

Talib is easily the top corner left on the board at that point (based on the consensus rankings) so that's why Dallas would take him over others you mentioned.

He might even be able to play some safety for them.

Geo
04-11-2008, 02:01 PM
Chief, do you think the Pats will trade up with the Chiefs to get Gholston? That's an idea I have in my head, Harvey is good but Gholston is better. Plus it takes him away from Mangenius and the Jets (singing your favorite tunes every Saturday night).

Kansas City could certainly use the extra pick with their extreme roster turnover this season, plus they would have an "out" for not drafting Matt Ryan if the Jets grab him at #6.

Go_Eagles77
04-11-2008, 02:08 PM
If the eagles trade Lito, DRC would be an awesome pick. Also Kelly would be very good value in the 2nd. Obviously the 40 time scares me a little, but you can't deny that he has talent. If the first 2 rounds went like that I'd be thrilled.

LonghornsLegend
04-11-2008, 02:12 PM
Anthony Henry isn't a man cover guy either...

Talib is easily the top corner left on the board at that point (based on the consensus rankings) so that's why Dallas would take him over others you mentioned.

He might even be able to play some safety for them.

Your right, Henry is not, which is why Im pretty sure we didnt want another guy who wasnt great in man to man coverage...and as far as the top corner on consensus rankings your right about that, but ive also read reports that have us along with the Bills, Packers, and Cardinals that have a 1st rd grade on Cason, and I believe he's a better fit and I think we look his way 1st or another guy at 28 like Godfrey...But I dont expect you to change the pick just curious on your thought process, thanks.


Now if we let Talib get some time at Fs id love that, just doubt it happens because we need corners, we are probably drafting a safety before round 3.

CaliPanthers420
04-11-2008, 02:23 PM
Im sorry Scott but you CAN NOT take credit for being the 1st person to have Jake Long going #1. Ive heard both John Clayton and Chris Mortenson from ESPN say that the Dolphins were very interested in Long and thought he would go #1. This was at least a few weeks before you had Jake Long going #1 in your mock draft a few weeks ago.

Also, you got Devin Thomas with a 2nd round grade but yet you have him going #11 to the Bills. If you stay true to your OWN big board, Thomas should not be going there.

Just looks like to me, your going by what the media thinks.

Geo
04-11-2008, 02:33 PM
Scott hasn't adjusted the star/round rankings just yet for each prospect to match his new rankings, easy now.

Also you're forgetting the eleventh commandment: if it's not Wright, it's not right. :p

CC.SD
04-11-2008, 02:42 PM
I have all the respect in the world for you Scott, but a ton of mock drafts I've seen put either a corner or 3-4 DE like Balmer as the Chargers pick, and it just doesn't make sense to me. These are both positions where the pick would essentially be for depth.

The first round is where you draft starters IMO. A safety or RT has a legit chance of supplanting guys like Clinton Hart or Jeremy Clary during the preseason. I could never see Kentwan Balmer beating out Igor Olshansky or Luis Castillo. Waste of a pick if the guy gets a minimal amount of time on the field, no? The Bolts like their young guys, and they have late round picks for the exact purpose of picking up depth.

CaliPanthers420
04-11-2008, 02:42 PM
^^ Well if you scouted the players then you wouldnt have to change your rankings.

The only way you change your rankings is if your opinion changes due to the media.

Scott Wright
04-11-2008, 02:47 PM
Im sorry Scott but you CAN NOT take credit for being the 1st person to have Jake Long going #1. Ive heard both John Clayton and Chris Mortenson from ESPN say that the Dolphins were very interested in Long and thought he would go #1. This was at least a few weeks before you had Jake Long going #1 in your mock draft a few weeks ago.

Also, you got Devin Thomas with a 2nd round grade but yet you have him going #11 to the Bills. If you stay true to your OWN big board, Thomas should not be going there.

Just looks like to me, your going by what the media thinks.

Oh, I definitely disagree. Find me credible media mocks from before March 17, 2008 that had Jake Long going #1 to Miami. They aren't out there. They all had Chris Long and some still do. Others finally started to come around earlier this month.

Geo
04-11-2008, 02:49 PM
What? The Combine, pre-Draft bowls and workouts, and interviews/psychological evaluations?

Yeah a guy isn't going to jump out of nowhere or fall off the face of the Earth, but there's more information to be had and that's why the pre-Draft process is so valuable. That's what makes the Colts draft Peyton Manning over Ryan Leaf.

draftguru151
04-11-2008, 02:51 PM
^^ Well if you scouted the players then you wouldnt have to change your rankings.

The only way you change your rankings is if your opinion changes due to the media.

The mock draft isn't what Scott would do it's what he thinks will happen, so his rankings have nothing to do with the mock.

Also Scott put the star system up a while ago and a lot of things happen in the offseason to change rankings.

sweetness34
04-11-2008, 02:53 PM
Im sorry Scott but you CAN NOT take credit for being the 1st person to have Jake Long going #1. Ive heard both John Clayton and Chris Mortenson from ESPN say that the Dolphins were very interested in Long and thought he would go #1. This was at least a few weeks before you had Jake Long going #1 in your mock draft a few weeks ago.

Also, you got Devin Thomas with a 2nd round grade but yet you have him going #11 to the Bills. If you stay true to your OWN big board, Thomas should not be going there.

Just looks like to me, your going by what the media thinks.

This is what gets me, people think that just because you give a guy a grade, they cannot go in a specific round

Scott tries to be accurate not with what he thinks they should do, but with what he's hearing the teams will do. Devin Thomas is the #1 WR on the board right now after Kelly's horrible Pro Day performance, Buffalo really needs a WR and that's why he's going there. Thomas has high upside and even though it's a reach, I think he'll turn out to be a good player for them.

With the Bears pick it's down to 3 guys with me Otah (who you have pegged right now), Williams (my personal favorite), and Albert (most versatile).

The Mendenhall talk was all rumor and had zero substance. Barring a huge shock, we won't take him if he's available from what we're hearing in Chicago.

As long as we go with one of those 3 OL's though, I'll be smiling on draft day, unless of course someone falls to us. :D

Go_Eagles77
04-11-2008, 02:54 PM
Scott hasn't adjusted the star/round rankings just yet for each prospect to match his new rankings, easy now.


Yeah I like how Jarod Mayo has a Late round/ FA rank but he's going 15th overall in the mock. lol

CaliPanthers420
04-11-2008, 02:58 PM
Oh, I definitely disagree. Find me credible media mocks from before March 17, 2008 that had Jake Long going #1 to Miami. They aren't out there. They all had Chris Long and some still do. Others finally started to come around earlier this month.

No need to disagree with me because John Clayton and Chris Mortenson dont create Mock Drafts. They just provide the inside news and both stated that the Dolphins were interested in Jake Long and Clayton said he thinks they will take him. This was before you had him in your Mock Draft.

I wasn't even gonna bring this up until I saw you trying to take credit for this.

You were the 1st one to have Chris Long as the #1 pick as well, am I wrong?

CaliPanthers420
04-11-2008, 03:07 PM
This is what gets me, people think that just because you give a guy a grade, they cannot go in a specific round

Scott tries to be accurate not with what he thinks they should do, but with what he's hearing the teams will do. Devin Thomas is the #1 WR on the board right now after Kelly's horrible Pro Day performance, Buffalo really needs a WR and that's why he's going there. Thomas has high upside and even though it's a reach, I think he'll turn out to be a good player for them. :D

Devin Thomas was the #1 WR on my board the day I watched him and the other top receivers on film. Thomas proved with his play during the season that he was the #1 WR in this draft class pre combine. The combine and pro day workouts only confirmed my belief about Thomas and brought with it a boat load of people on his bandwagon.

I know Mocks are suppose to be accurate. Just dont try and take credit for stuff when the information was already out there. If you dont take credit for it and just say that its information that is out, then you will not get called out.

Crazy_Chris
04-11-2008, 03:08 PM
Nice work scott Phillip Merling would be a nice choice for the Vikings he would provide them with a starter at Strongside DE and a Pass Rush force from DT on passing downs when they take Pat Williams out.

As a potential surprise keep an eye on Keith Rivers here too...

We all know Bellicheck's past drafts indicate he doesn't like LBs early but I have read that they are actually interested in Rivers. How seriously do you think they are considering Keith Rivers?

d34ng3l021
04-11-2008, 03:32 PM
Hah. Glenn Dorsey, Brian Brohm, Antione Cason, and Anthony Collins (okay pick)? In our dreams, Scott.

Geo
04-11-2008, 03:40 PM
Scott is a closet Falcons fan, for reals. :)

Also, I commend you for your best mock Colts' pick yet, Chief. If there's one RB the Colts go early on, I think it's Johnson. Even if he didn't average over 5 yards per carry in his collegiate career which is something the Colts just about demand, his speed and versatility as a runningback/receiver plus his ability as a dynamic return man (word is the Colts are looking for that) overcome that. Assuming the Colts doctors check out his neck and give the green-light of course, like they did with Bob Sanders back in 04 among other players/instances.

Flyboy
04-11-2008, 03:41 PM
I'd be happier if say, we took Rivers at 10, a CB in the second and Fred Davis in the third.

Hograiser
04-11-2008, 03:47 PM
the steelers draft made me want to cry. the only thing Gosder Cherilus would add to the steelers line would be another turnstile oppisite marvel smith. plus steelers need a true lest tackle to protect ben not another right tackle since we payed max starks 7 mil and still have tria essax right tackle is not a glaring need. and jordy nelson in the second is to early esspecially with cliff avril, tracy porter and chlio rachel still on the board. personally would like to see steelers take Groves in the first and chilo rachel in the second

Joeyjr09
04-11-2008, 04:07 PM
Scott,

What makes you think Miami would go for Lofton at the top of round 2 instead of Quentin Groves.

Miami has shown a love to 3-4 OLBs having visits with tons of them including Gholston, Long, Harvey and Groves.

I don't think Miami has ever met with Lofton and I thought it was pretty clear that Lofton did not fit the physical size of an ILB that Parcells goes for. Seeing as Parcells likes to stick very close to his physical requirments, why would they take Lofton at 32 instead of taking Groves at 32 and then having Erin Henderson sitting there for them at number 58?

Henderson is a better 3-4 ILB then Lofton and Groves might be the best suited DE in the draft to make the transition to 3-4 OLB.

draftguru151
04-11-2008, 04:14 PM
I don't see how Lofton doesn't fit inside for us. He's over 245 at 6-0 and is very thick. He's a thumper inside, similar to David Harris last year. Definitely fits the style of a 3-4 ILB and mixes well with Crowder. That said if we did take Jake 1st overall I don't see us passing on Groves (I doubt Groves makes it to the 2nd anyway though).

BamaFalcon59
04-11-2008, 04:30 PM
Scott, you just made the absolute perfect Falcons mock. Thank you.

Addict
04-11-2008, 04:38 PM
This Lions mock saddens me. Which makes it realistic.

bored of education
04-11-2008, 04:41 PM
I love you Scott Wright. NO ALBERT IN TOP 5!

scottyboy
04-11-2008, 04:47 PM
Very nice Giants mock. Not a fan of Henderson personally, but that's because what happened with his team against mine this year... :(

but very nice 1st rounder, liked it a lot.

If I was a Lions fan, I'd have a boner from that mock. just saying...

Geo
04-11-2008, 04:53 PM
Interesting that Scott pegs the Jags to draft Lawrence Jackson over Kenny Phillips, I would have thought the opposite. Sensabaugh is good, but he's a free agent after 08 and is coming off a season-ending injury last season that forced the team to sign Sammy Knight as an okay stop-gap. Phillips could team up with Nelson to be their safety tandem of the future.

Meanwhile, I don't think Jackson is worth a first round pick, myself. He's an okay run-stopping end, I don't think of him as a great pass-rusher. He'll put in a solid effort.

SaintsMan
04-11-2008, 05:03 PM
I don't like the Saints picks. Keller with Trevor Laws, Dan Connor, Reggie Smith, etc still on the board? Rivers isn't even the best LB in the draft.

LonghornsLegend
04-11-2008, 05:08 PM
Kenny Phillips is going to Dallas at 28 and he's going to screw up everyone's mock, just watch :D



This Lions mock saddens me. Which makes it realistic.

LMAO...I love Lions fans :)

Scott Wright
04-11-2008, 05:09 PM
Yeah I like how Jarod Mayo has a Late round/ FA rank but he's going 15th overall in the mock. lol

Whoops, now that one was a typo. :)

sweetness34
04-11-2008, 05:33 PM
Devin Thomas was the #1 WR on my board the day I watched him and the other top receivers on film. Thomas proved with his play during the season that he was the #1 WR in this draft class pre combine. The combine and pro day workouts only confirmed my belief about Thomas and brought with it a boat load of people on his bandwagon.

I know Mocks are suppose to be accurate. Just dont try and take credit for stuff when the information was already out there. If you dont take credit for it and just say that its information that is out, then you will not get called out.

Congratulations, do you want a cookie? You're making it sound like you were the first one to rank him #1 and everyone else jumped on your bandwagon, GMAFB dude and get off your soap box.

I watch SC religiously and I never saw Clayton or Mortenson say that they thought Jake Long was being targeted seriously by Miami for the #1 overall pick. Dorsey's name was thrown around and Chris Long was rumored to be the favorite for while. Scott has been reporting Jake to Miami for a while, and I see no problem with saying he was one of the first to do so.

Joeyjr09
04-11-2008, 05:35 PM
I don't see how Lofton doesn't fit inside for us. He's over 245 at 6-0 and is very thick. He's a thumper inside, similar to David Harris last year. Definitely fits the style of a 3-4 ILB and mixes well with Crowder. That said if we did take Jake 1st overall I don't see us passing on Groves (I doubt Groves makes it to the 2nd anyway though).

The size thing with Lofton has more to do with the 6 foot height rather then his weight. Parcells likes his LBs in the 6'3 area so they can better leverage against some of the OL they will have to take on. Lofton will struggle with that.

Also, have the Dolphins set up a meeting with Lofton? I know they have definately met with Groves and Gooden but I've heard nothing on Lofton.

Scott has been making this Lofton to Miami pick for a long time now. I'm just wondering if he has anything to back this up or if it's just his opinion because I don't see how the Dolphins would draft Lofton ahead of Groves or why they would take Lofton when Henderson and Gooden are likely on the board with our low 2nd.

Guess I'm just not seeing the logic in it, although I do like Lofton. One of my favorite LBs in the draft.

BeerBaron
04-11-2008, 05:46 PM
did anyone else notice that scott's top 6 were the 6 guys invited to the draft?

if that worked out we wouldnt be seeing any long falls this year....

ThePudge
04-11-2008, 05:57 PM
I won't be the guy who will sit here and say he doesn't like a pick or doesn't like a player. You can't make everyone happy. If everyone was completely happy on draft day it would cease to be exciting; the uncertainty and craziness of the draft makes it what it is. That being said, I would like to discuss some things.


Exhibit A - The Miami Dolphins


The Miami Dolphins organization recently had a conference, which I'm sure you were aware of, that hints toward the player they'd like to take at #1 (I say "like to take" because of potential contract difficulites). Many things in that conference were subtle, others not so much. Some not so subtle information: Tony Sparano likes John Beck and Ronnie Brown, both are involved in the team's long term plans. This leads us to the conclusion that QB Matt Ryan and RB Darren McFadden will not be the pick at #1. (McFadden was already out, but this was more or less confirmation)

Now, more subtle was the comment about the offensive line. High team personnel said they have a couple rocks to build on in C Samson Satele and LT Vernon Carey. Highlighted should be the two letter acronym ahead of Vernon Carey's name, "LT", Left Tackle. Carey may or not be the answer at Left Tackle, but it should be noted that right now that's where he seems to be penciled in. This may look like a major mistake, but remember the Dolphins are moving to a more run-based, power style offense in 2008. Long would be an excellent LT for the offense, but with Carey there, he's not necessary exactly. Since a typical Right Tackle is hardly worthy of a Top 10 pick, even if he may be a very good one, I doubt Long is the pick at 1. Jeff Ireland is not a guy who likes to pick for need early he says, depends who the team has rated highest on their board.

Gosder Cherilus seems to be the more viable pick, but they may have to trade away either a future pick or their thrid/fourth rounder to move up into the tail end of the 1st and grab the big RT. Going by the current trade value chart, the 32nd and 64th pick (2nd/3rd) would be enough to vault the Dolphins as high as 20th Overall. If they were to pair their first 2nd Rounder (32) with their fourth rounder (100) they would have enough firepower, hypothetically, to jump to 27th Overall, where the Chargers happen to sit and are waiting eagerly for a deal. Carl Nicks is another big, thick RT prospect that may be available around their 2nd second round pick, 57th Overall.

Right now, because GM Jeff Ireland said he focuses on how good a college player is over how good an athlete is and also talent over need (which would be RT primarily), I'd go with Chris Long over Vernon Gholston and Jake Long. I do think that is the order though (Long, Gholston, Long). I wouldn't be shocked with any above and don't see any of this year's players as slam-dunk 1st Overall picks, but [Chris] Long to me seems like the best fit player wise and personality wise. Glenn Dorsey may be in the race now, but is not a schematic fit and will likely be out of the picture next week. I like Jake Long, don't get me wrong, but I think he'll need the right system to really excel at LT. Like you, I don't think he is Joe Thomas, run-blocking remains his hallmark, I don't buy him right now as an elite OT. One OT has been chosen first overall since 1968.


Exhibit B - The Cincinnati Bengals


I love Dan Connor. Excellent prospect at MLB for where his value is considered to be at the moment; however, that may be precisely the problem with Connor to Cincinnati. Connor can played OLB at a high level in college, but is a better fit in the middle in the NFL due to his instincts, but lack of elite athleticism. The Bengals happen to be set at MLB, at least on the surface, with the talented Ahmad Brooks and Odell Thurman now likely to return. WLB Dhani Jones was recently signed to a three-year contract, leading me to believe the team is targetting a big, developmental prospect that will be given at least a year to sit before he is forced into action. Typically, Mike Zimmer and Jeff Fitzgerald prefer bigger, more athletic LBs. Connor may not exactly be the typical big, athletic LB that they look for, in fact he's almost the opposite.

Problem number two with the Connor pick: the Bengals way of drafting. I just touched on the new system in Cincinnati on defense very briefly above. The next point I have to offer is that their coaching staff, not scouts or a GM makes the majority of the evaluations and picks. You'll hear constantly of Bengals positional coaches at players' Pro Days, not so much a scout or GM. Marvin Lewis makes the final judgement call, compiling his own evaluations with those of his coaching staff. Why this is relevant? The Bengals didn't so much as show up at Penn State's Pro Day from what I hear. There are cases of players being drafted by teams they didn't even come in contact with. Those players, however, are not Cincinnati Bengals. It's easy to tell who the Bengals are interested in.

You're probably wondering what my view on the LB situation is, since I dismissed Connor. As I noted earlier: big, athletic, developmental prospects have the edge (see Antwan Barnes, Jarett Johnson, DeMarcus Ware, etc.) Quentin Groves would be the option in the first if the team decided to go in that direction. Stanford Keglar, Gary Guyton, Bryan Kehl, Curtis Johnson, and Bryan Smith may be cheaper additions, as they could likely be obtained anywhere from the Bengals compensation pick (97) to their fifth round selection.

With that pick, set up the way it is, I'd be surprised if the Bengals didn't go with offense. It may surprise you as they've struggled on defense for just about the entire decade thus far, but the players they've been meeting with indicate that out of the team's first five picks (9, 46, 77, 97, 112) at least two will be offensive selections. In this particular scenario, I'd say either Malcolm Kelly who would fill the Bengals need of a big, aggressive receiver that would take double teams off Chad/TJ and provide the tall redzone threat that Henry did. Of course, I would not give you this name if the team had not shown him an abnormal amount of interest, which they have. Another option would be Tulane RB Matt Forte, who the team has also shown plenty of interest to as of late. Forte would allow the team to part ways with worn down Rudi Johnson and give the team a new, young power back, with a bit more athleticism. I like to compare Forte to Corey Dillon, I think he has that kind of potential (without the attitude) and will be drafted right around the same spot. I would imagine the Bengals would learn from both their own mistakes and the success of others. What I mean by the previous sentence is: though Forte would be kind of a workhorse for the Bengals, their primary back, 2007 2nd Round Pick Kenny Irons would be able to provide the "lightning" to Forte's "thunder", therefore reducing the wear and tear factor on Forte and giving the team some added explosiveness.


Exhibit C - Kansas City Chiefs


When you read the headline above you probably though I was going to complain about the Matt Ryan pick. That is not the case here. Sam Baker at 35th Overall to Kansas City is a very questionable pick to me. I agree that an Offensive Tackle must be chosen early, but the short armed, undersized Baker is a poor fit in Herm Edwards' power running scheme.

To me, Baker isn't that high a pick either at Left Tackle. Instead, I think he projects a bit higher as a Left Guard, but still have him there as a Late Second-Mid Third Round prospect. He was a very good player at Left Tackle in 2007, and solid in 2008, for the nation's most prestigious program, but he simply does not fit in the same position in the NFL in my opinion. His weak Pro Day does not do him any favors, as he was a bit less athletic than expected and underwhelmed some on hand. If he had an impressive workout I'd have considered him early, possibly as a Left Tackle for a zone blocking team, but that wasn't the case. I think a team like the Colts though could take a gamble in late round two on Baker, as he has plenty of upside at Left Guard.

For Kansas City, I see Jeff Otah/Carl Nicks as the type of player they'd ideally like to select. A big body with enough athleticism to play LT in their power scheme. Anthony Collins also has upside and great size potential at the beginning of round two, but character issues and lack of polish may push him right back down. Brandon Flowers is their type of CB though and I'm not sure if they could pass if Flowers was sitting there at 36. He's cut in the mold of a typical Chiefs CB, physical, aggressive, with the ball skills that the aging Kansas City corners lack.


Exhibit D - Final Questions


You have Justin King to Buffalo. I'm not arguing the value there, because with King's physical ability he's bound to be overdrafted. But do you think King could be an effective Cover 2 corner?

Antoine Cason's lack of elite upside may push him down a bit and I do not see him as a very good fit as an Atlanta corner. Typically the Falcons target smaller, faster corners capable of playing their man scheme. Do you think Cason is a good enough fit to be taken so early?

Do you consider Oniel Cousins a Round 2 prospect as a Left Tackle, or Left Guard? Personally I think that Virginia Tech's Duane Brown, a fast riser, may be the better fit and value there at this point.


Thank You

stocki711
04-11-2008, 05:58 PM
You have him picked twice at #11 and #19.
I believe there is only one DRC and he was a great pick at #11 with the Bills.



pray for playmakers: Raiders take Darren McFadden at #4

stocki711
04-11-2008, 05:59 PM
Sorry, but you also have Aqib Talib taken twice at #16 and #22

BamaFalcon59
04-11-2008, 06:01 PM
Antoine Cason's lack of elite upside may push him down a bit and I do not see him as a very good fit as an Atlanta corner. Typically the Falcons target smaller, faster corners capable of playing their man scheme. Do you think Cason is a good enough fit to be taken so early?



Rashean Mathis, Brian Williams, Asante Samuel, Randall ***, etc. are not exactly speed burners. We will likely play a lot of zone this year. Cason also ran a late 4.4 at the combine. He would be great in Atlanta.

BamaFalcon59
04-11-2008, 06:03 PM
Sorry, but you also have Aqib Talib taken twice at #16 and #22

No he does not. You are looking at a old mock and the new one. Make sure it is the updated one.

JT Jag
04-11-2008, 06:04 PM
Scott, I'd like to make sure you know that I love the two picks.

However, if that scenario plays out in the first round, I think Kenny Phillips would be the pick.

Gregg Williams loves big, rangy safeties, and he might fall in love with Kenny and try and make him into a middle class man's Sean Taylor.

ThePudge
04-11-2008, 07:07 PM
Rashean Mathis, Brian Williams, Asante Samuel, Randall ***, etc. are not exactly speed burners. We will likely play a lot of zone this year. Cason also ran a late 4.4 at the combine. He would be great in Atlanta.


None of these players play/played for the Falcons. Samuel and Randall *** both played in a heavily zone based scheme that allowed Samuel, in particular, to be very productive and allow them to read/react and use their ball skills. Brian Williams isn't exactly a very good player, at all, not positive where you were going with that. Mathis ran a 4.44 coming out of Bethune-Cookman. He's no burner, but he's quick and has developed excellent ball skills. I was saying that Cason was not the ideal fit for a man corner. He could play there, of course, but it'd negate or at least diminish the importance of a few of his positive attributes as a player, where as a zone defense would protect his lack of elite game speed and lack of physicality. Probably a better fit in a defense such as Pittsburgh's or New England's.

However, I didn't know what type of new looks will be thrown in with a new defensive coordinator. If it's a primarily zone scheme then I believe Cason could fit, but he isn't worth the high 2nd Round pick if they're set on playing man. If that's the case a guy like Tracy Porter or Justin King may be your best bet, perhaps Patrick Lee. Orlando Scandrick, Antwaun Molden and Terrence Wheatley would be worth looks later in the 3rd-4th.

The Legend
04-11-2008, 07:16 PM
Congratulations, do you want a cookie?

oh i love cookies can i have it if he dosent take it

http://sanseverything.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/cookie-monster3.jpg

Scott Wright
04-11-2008, 07:25 PM
Just a note on Sam Baker to Kansas City...

I agree that isn't a perfect fit but if they don't get a tackle in round one what do they do? Wait until round three or four for Carl Nicks? I don't think the Chiefs can wait that long to take a tackle and Sam Baker is really the only sure-fire 2nd round tackle. Maybe Anthony Collins.

BamaFalcon59
04-11-2008, 07:44 PM
None of these players play/played for the Falcons. Samuel and Randall *** both played in a heavily zone based scheme that allowed Samuel, in particular, to be very productive and allow them to read/react and use their ball skills. Brian Williams isn't exactly a very good player, at all, not positive where you were going with that. Mathis ran a 4.44 coming out of Bethune-Cookman. He's no burner, but he's quick and has developed excellent ball skills. I was saying that Cason was not the ideal fit for a man corner. He could play there, of course, but it'd negate or at least diminish the importance of a few of his positive attributes as a player, where as a zone defense would protect his lack of elite game speed and lack of physicality. Probably a better fit in a defense such as Pittsburgh's or New England's.

However, I didn't know what type of new looks will be thrown in with a new defensive coordinator. If it's a primarily zone scheme then I believe Cason could fit, but he isn't worth the high 2nd Round pick if they're set on playing man. If that's the case a guy like Tracy Porter or Justin King may be your best bet, perhaps Patrick Lee. Orlando Scandrick, Antwaun Molden and Terrence Wheatley would be worth looks later in the 3rd-4th.

New England and Jacksonville both relied on zone corners with ball skills. Mike Smith comes from a scheme that carries a lot of base looks. We, the fans, expect a primarily zone scheme, so Cason would be a great fit. I agree on Porter, Justin King I'm not so much a fan of.

RaiderNation
04-11-2008, 07:45 PM
love the raider pick

Smokey Joe
04-11-2008, 07:45 PM
I think there is a 2% chance the Chiefs draft Ryan. They just spent a 3rd rounder on Croyle just a few years ago, and they have said multiple times he is their guy, and they will look to bring in some oline pieces to keep him upright. And if that means possibly reaching on Albert, Clady, or Otah, that's what they'll do, IMO.

As for Otah to the Bears, I don't think he fits. Yeah, OLine is a need, but Otah isn't really the type of OLinemen the Bears go after. Williams is more a fit for the Bears OLine, and if they had to choose between the two, I'm 90% sure they'd take Williams.

As for Henne in round two... yuck. If both Flacco and Brohm are gone, I'd hope they'd either turn their attention to RB/WR/DT, or trade down.

holt_bruce81
04-11-2008, 09:27 PM
Can't complain about the Rams draft.

I love it.

Chief49er
04-11-2008, 09:47 PM
You must love the 49ers because this is the perfect first 2 rounds for them.

D. Jackson and Groves... that would be pretty sweet!

If that happens I will donate to your site buddy!

ninerfan
04-11-2008, 10:15 PM
You must love the 49ers because this is the perfect first 2 rounds for them.

D. Jackson and Groves... that would be pretty sweet!

If that happens I will donate to your site buddy!

I'd rather have Phillips and Groves if it falls like Scott thinks.

ThePudge
04-12-2008, 12:32 AM
Just a note on Sam Baker to Kansas City...

I agree that isn't a perfect fit but if they don't get a tackle in round one what do they do? Wait until round three or four for Carl Nicks? I don't think the Chiefs can wait that long to take a tackle and Sam Baker is really the only sure-fire 2nd round tackle. Maybe Anthony Collins.

Yea, I just don't think he really fits what they're trying to do. It is especially important for Kansas City to draft a tackle in round two or three to protect their new franchise QB, Matt Ryan. Unfortunately, there's not much value there without risk (Anthony Collins). I believe Baker may not even have the girth to play Left Guard for Kansas City, so Left Tackle is a stretch in my mind. Collins is listed at 310 at the moment, though it's possible for him to play at up to 325, but that'd have to be a gradual gain. His dramatic gain of weight really hurt him at the Combine, he must work harder on his body. Interesting to note that Chiefs president Carl Peterson attended Collins' Pro Day.

At this point I'd say

FIRST ROUND
- Jake Long LT
- Jeff Otah LT
- Gosder Cherilus RT/LT

SECOND ROUND
- Anthony Collins LT

THIRD ROUND
- Carl Nicks LT/RT
- Chad Rinehart LG/RG/RT (3rd-4th)

FOURTH-FIFTH ROUND
- Geoff Schwartz RT
- Barry Richardson RT

SIXTH-SEVENTH ROUND
- Brandon Keith RT/RG
- Franklin Dunbar RT

They have 10 picks, none of which are compensation. They may all be fair game for a trade. Though after analyzing their picks and situation, they'd probably be better off staying put, trading down if anything. They have plenty of needs that require filling. I expect roughly three OL out of the 10, a CB, a WR, a TE perhaps, a couple DL, a LB, and if Ryan is there a QB likely.

1. (5)
2. (35)
3. (66)
4. (105)
5. (136)
5. (140)
6. (170)
6. (187)
7. (210)
7. (239)

Scott Wright
04-12-2008, 06:56 AM
Yea, I just don't think he really fits what they're trying to do. It is especially important for Kansas City to draft a tackle in round two or three to protect their new franchise QB, Matt Ryan. Unfortunately, there's not much value there without risk (Anthony Collins). I believe Baker may not even have the girth to play Left Guard for Kansas City, so Left Tackle is a stretch in my mind. Collins is listed at 310 at the moment, though it's possible for him to play at up to 325, but that'd have to be a gradual gain. His dramatic gain of weight really hurt him at the Combine, he must work harder on his body. Interesting to note that Chiefs president Carl Peterson attended Collins' Pro Day.

At this point I'd say

FIRST ROUND
- Jake Long LT
- Jeff Otah LT
- Gosder Cherilus RT/LT

SECOND ROUND
- Anthony Collins LT

THIRD ROUND
- Carl Nicks LT/RT
- Chad Rinehart LG/RG/RT (3rd-4th)

FOURTH-FIFTH ROUND
- Geoff Schwartz RT
- Barry Richardson RT

SIXTH-SEVENTH ROUND
- Brandon Keith RT/RG
- Franklin Dunbar RT

They have 10 picks, none of which are compensation. They may all be fair game for a trade. Though after analyzing their picks and situation, they'd probably be better off staying put, trading down if anything. They have plenty of needs that require filling. I expect roughly three OL out of the 10, a CB, a WR, a TE perhaps, a couple DL, a LB, and if Ryan is there a QB likely.

1. (5)
2. (35)
3. (66)
4. (105)
5. (136)
5. (140)
6. (170)
6. (187)
7. (210)
7. (239)

The problem with that is there's no way Jake Long makes it to #5 and both Otah and Cherilus would be reaching. Obviously you'd say trade down, but there may not be a market for that and I don't project trades in my mocks. So, Jake Long gone, no trades what do you do at #5 if you are K.C., keeping in mind that they want a powerful offensive RIGHT tackle.

ThePudge
04-12-2008, 08:43 AM
The problem with that is there's no way Jake Long makes it to #5 and both Otah and Cherilus would be reaching. Obviously you'd say trade down, but there may not be a market for that and I don't project trades in my mocks. So, Jake Long gone, no trades what do you do at #5 if you are K.C., keeping in mind that they want a powerful offensive RIGHT tackle.

Exactly what was going through my mind when I typed that up. I actually had some trade scenarios for them to trade into the back of the first round with say Seattle or Dallas. I decided it'd be unlikely considering their several needs. I'm not sure that any team will trade up with Kansas City come the 26th either. The New York Jets and New England Patriots have been the two shadiest teams in the Top 10 and also would probably prefer a trade. There is no sense in any team trading ahead of them in my opinion, they could simply lessen the cost by trading with them instead.

Ultimately, I'd go Matt Ryan at 5 assuming Jake Long and Glenn Dorsey are gone. I'd probably go with Collins there in the 2nd or Nicks in the 3rd. Collins is a boom-or-bust type that has potential and the frame to grow, Nicks would likely be more efficient right away.

neko4
04-12-2008, 12:00 PM
My top 3 is exactly like yours scott, so i guess thats a good thing
After that I have my disagreements

vidae
04-12-2008, 12:06 PM
Obviously the thing we want to do is trade out of that five pick. Jake Long will not be there at five, we all know this, but if the top four play out a certain way I think you'll find that there will be people wanting to trade up.

The two players I could see being traded up for are Matt Ryan and Darren McFadden, and there is a buzz that the Jets like both of those guys. If there is a team past the Jets who really want either, I can see them hopping the Jets and trading with us at five to ensure they get one.

Of course, if Ryan goes #3 to Atlanta and McFadden goes #4 to Oakland, it would be pretty hard for us to move down. Nothing is certain, obviously, but I think there is a stronger possibility of us being able to trade down than some people think.

And, if we did take Ryan with the fifth overall pick, and Flowers is available for us in round two, I'd prefer we took him and then picked up Nicks in the third. There will be decent value for center/guard in the fourth and we can probably find a starter in that round.

BuffaloDraftGeek
04-12-2008, 12:31 PM
Scott, question. You curently have the Bills going WR-CB in the first two rounds, which I completely agree with. However, I'm not liking the Justin King pick. He is definetly more of an athletic speedy corner, who is not very. We already have two corners in these mold, and what we need is a bigger, more physical corner.

Therefor, what would you think of the Bills selecting Reggie Smith to play corner? I believe he played some corner in college, and he definetly has the physical makeup to be a solid corner for the Bills. Not only would it also provide the bills depth at safety, it would also, IMO, be a much better value pick.

stocki711
04-12-2008, 02:40 PM
after the top 6 the talent drops off considerably. i dont think the patriots will be able to trade but i could see a mid round team trading with the chiefs for one of the 6.

LonghornsLegend
04-12-2008, 04:17 PM
I know Falcons fans are happy to get Cason so late but I think Scott underrates him quite a bit in mocks...

A league source has told Scout.com that Buffalo, Carolina, Arizona, Tampa, Pittsburgh, Dallas and Green Bay all have first-round grades on Cason.


Found that from a scout site, and even if he does make it past Green Bay, and NY, Miami would give him alot of consideration at 32 as well, I dont see him going all the way to mid/late 2nd round(where he was in the last mock), and I'd be surprised to see him go out of the 1st all together....Buffalo, Arizona, Tampa and Dallas will all strongly consider him...would be a great steal none the less if it happened, and yes im pretty sure he would be a great man to man corner.

Scott Wright
04-12-2008, 04:56 PM
Just an F.Y.I., I've been working the phones a little bit today and apparently the Chiefs are very, very serious about trading down. In fact, they might already be calling around about potential deals. In my blog Monday I am going to look at some possible suitors and their targets but it's just something to keep in mind.

Scotty D
04-12-2008, 04:58 PM
Just an F.Y.I., I've been working the phones a little bit today and apparently the Chiefs are very, very serious about trading down. In fact, they might already be calling around about potential deals. In my blog Monday I am going to look at some possible suitors and their targets but it's just something to keep in mind.

Very interesting news. I'm guessing a team looking for a DT.

Scott, I'd like to her your opinion on rising prospect Antwaun Molden and if you feel he deserves this sudden hype.

Geo
04-12-2008, 05:04 PM
Just an F.Y.I., I've been working the phones a little bit today and apparently the Chiefs are very, very serious about trading down. In fact, they might already be calling around about potential deals. In my blog Monday I am going to look at some possible suitors and their targets but it's just something to keep in mind.
I know I'm repeating myself here, but I think this is a perfect opportunity for the Patriots to trade up with the Chiefs, without having to give up much really unless King Carl doesn't want an extra pick or loves Matt Ryan. The Patriots give up a 5th or 4th round pick, thereabouts, but they get the perfect OLB prospect in Gholston and do it stealing him before the bitter rival Jets can get him.

Flyboy
04-12-2008, 05:09 PM
Just an F.Y.I., I've been working the phones a little bit today and apparently the Chiefs are very, very serious about trading down. In fact, they might already be calling around about potential deals. In my blog Monday I am going to look at some possible suitors and their targets but it's just something to keep in mind.

Saints you hear that? Dorsey or Ellis FTW!

wingboy2999
04-12-2008, 07:13 PM
I know I'm repeating myself here, but I think this is a perfect opportunity for the Patriots to trade up with the Chiefs, without having to give up much really unless King Carl doesn't want an extra pick or loves Matt Ryan. The Patriots give up a 5th or 4th round pick, thereabouts, but they get the perfect OLB prospect in Gholston and do it stealing him before the bitter rival Jets can get him.

I don't know if a 4th/5th is enough to move up. That seems too little. Especially if the Jets decide to get into the bidding.

SaintsMan
04-12-2008, 07:27 PM
Just an F.Y.I., I've been working the phones a little bit today and apparently the Chiefs are very, very serious about trading down. In fact, they might already be calling around about potential deals. In my blog Monday I am going to look at some possible suitors and their targets but it's just something to keep in mind.

I hope the Saints move up, so we can fill our gaping hole at Defensive Tackle.

Scott Wright
04-12-2008, 07:45 PM
Scott, I'd like to her your opinion on rising prospect Antwaun Molden and if you feel he deserves this sudden hype.

You're right, Molden is real hot right now. I have even heard him mentioned as high as round one!!! I don't see that happening but 2nd or 3rd round is very possible.

Honestly I am going to go back and watch his tapes again and take a second look.

LonghornsLegend
04-12-2008, 07:58 PM
I know I'm repeating myself here, but I think this is a perfect opportunity for the Patriots to trade up with the Chiefs, without having to give up much really unless King Carl doesn't want an extra pick or loves Matt Ryan. The Patriots give up a 5th or 4th round pick, thereabouts, but they get the perfect OLB prospect in Gholston and do it stealing him before the bitter rival Jets can get him.

What if Gholston is gone by #1 or #4 to the Raiders, I would think the Pats would be trying to move down more so then anyone to stockpile picks after already losing one pick, and being so old at certain positions.


I dont think Dallas wants to go up to #5, that would be two first and probably a 3rd which is too much for my likings, so im not sure who would be interested and what prospect would they need to get from there...They will more then likely be stuck and have to pick.

keylime_5
04-12-2008, 08:31 PM
I don't have a problem with draft day trades in the first round, but they totally kill mock drafts, especially if they're in the top ten picks.

jdb1972
04-12-2008, 09:03 PM
Panthers picks don't really work, IMO.

Despite the initial buzz about moving Wharton to guard in the ZBS, the Panthers recently signed three 330+ interior linemen and Fox began saying "not so fast" to the guard story. This seems to signal an end the sporadic ZBS experiment. It also addresses the issue that a 312 pound Wharton at guard beside a 290 pound 2nd year center might not help the run game that much. Now, they could take Albert, but if they do, he'll likely be fighting for a starting spot at LG his rookie year.

At any rate, seems more likely they would go Mendenhall to me. Right now, the #2 RB is the woeful LaBrandon Toefield, who everyone keeps insisting is a power back despite a career sub-2 YPC average in short yardage situations. They'll definitely go with an early pick here one way or the other. Unless they've lost their minds.

Second round, they already made their annual pickup of a veteran scrub who can't cover to play safety: Terrence Holt. Given how much the coaching staff professes to like CJ Wilson and Quentin Teal as backups/STers, I wouldn't be shocked if they don't spend a pick here at all.

On the other hand, they have only two DTs currently under contract who are likely to begin the season on the roster. Again, I'd expect an early pick here, though the way this particular mock falls out would be inconvenient. Laws seems like a Fox sort of guy to me.

Round 3... well, the way this is falling out, Nicks could be there for the pick they got from the Jets. I'd love that pick for its potential.

keylime_5
04-12-2008, 09:09 PM
Albert pick makes great sense for Carolina. He's the 3rd best lineman in the draft and the Panthers' starting line is Gross/Vincent/Kalil/Wharton/?. They need a fifth guy in there and Albert is the guy whether he's the LT or LG (I think they'd prefer him to be a left tackle). But the guards they signed probably will for the most part not be guys who make the final cut anyhow.

vidae
04-12-2008, 10:02 PM
Just an F.Y.I., I've been working the phones a little bit today and apparently the Chiefs are very, very serious about trading down. In fact, they might already be calling around about potential deals. In my blog Monday I am going to look at some possible suitors and their targets but it's just something to keep in mind.

Heck yeah!

regoob2
04-12-2008, 10:08 PM
Heck yeah!
Who do you think they're looking at? Clady?

keylime_5
04-12-2008, 10:09 PM
Probably Albert or Otah I would think.

mqtirishfan
04-12-2008, 10:10 PM
A Baltimore-KC deal makes almost too much sense not to happen if Atlanta takes Dorsey instead of Ryan.

vidae
04-12-2008, 10:11 PM
It depends. If they think Albert can play LT for us, they could be giving him a hard look. If they moved to the teens it would be more of an "accepted" and "value" pick than at 5. It could be Otah, who they are rumored to like as a mauling RT. It could be Clady.

It's difficult to pinpoint a specific person right now because in mocks around the internet (here, SI, etc) we've been given the following: Matt Ryan, Jake Long, Branden Albert, Jeff Otah, Ryan Clady, Keith Rivers, Vernon Gholston, Glenn Dorsey, Sedrick Ellis and even Darren McFadden (wtf?). Your guess is as good as mine. I was happier about potentially getting another first day pick. ;)

regoob2
04-12-2008, 10:16 PM
Would Baltimore take Ryan?

mqtirishfan
04-12-2008, 10:19 PM
Would Baltimore take Ryan?

I'm not a draft guru or anything, but I'd bet the farm they would.

vidae
04-12-2008, 10:29 PM
Would Baltimore take Ryan?

I personally feel like Troy Smith can be a very good QB in this league. I might be in the minority, but I think he can be a starter and a very successful one at that. That being said, do I think they'd take him? Yeah I do, I think they'd rush the card up to the podium.

A trade with the Ravens does make sense. We'd move down a few spots, potentially pick up a 2nd or a 3rd, depending, and get the guy we want. At pick 8 it could be a corner or OT. It would be interesting to see what happened there.

Smokey Joe
04-12-2008, 11:22 PM
A Baltimore-KC deal makes almost too much sense not to happen if Atlanta takes Dorsey instead of Ryan.
no it doesn't. None of the teams between KC and Baltimore are looking at QB. And, as we've seen from the previous couple of years, teams don't rate QB as high as they used to.

Scotty D
04-12-2008, 11:24 PM
no it doesn't. None of the teams between KC and Baltimore are looking at QB. And, as we've seen from the previous couple of years, teams don't rate QB as high as they used to.

That hasn't been true for the #1 QB.

Smokey Joe
04-12-2008, 11:28 PM
That hasn't been true for the #1 QB.
Well, Matt Ryan isn't on the level of Russell or Young, and in fact, Lienhart, Cutler (debatable I guess on this one), and Quinn were all better QB prospects.

mqtirishfan
04-12-2008, 11:56 PM
no it doesn't. None of the teams between KC and Baltimore are looking at QB. And, as we've seen from the previous couple of years, teams don't rate QB as high as they used to.

Well, KC appears to be trying to trade down, so it's not only the Jets and Pats standing in Baltimore's way of Matt Ryan, but any team in the market for a QB. If Baltimore really wants Matt Ryan, and KC really wants to trade down, I think it makes sense.

mqtirishfan
04-12-2008, 11:58 PM
Well, Matt Ryan isn't on the level of Russell or Young, and in fact, Lienhart, Cutler (debatable I guess on this one), and Quinn were all better QB prospects.

I suppose this all comes down to the preference of the guy calling the shots. I would agree that Ryan does not compare favorably to any of the recent top QBs, but there are some who think he is an elite talent.

703SKINS202
04-13-2008, 03:46 AM
Didn't really know where to put this but it ties into the latest mock draft. Gary Fitzgerald of redskins.com recently did a survey of the web and television media to find out who the so called mock experts are selcting for the redskins at 21. And not surprisingly he had really good things to say about NFLDC when he got to them on the survey, check it out...

-- Scott Wright, NFL Draft Countdown
No. 21: Calais Campbell, DE, Miami
Redskins.com comment: This is one of the best NFL Draft sites on the web, in my opinion. Wright points out that Campbell's former defensive line coach John Palermo is now in charge of the Redskins' defensive line. But if the Redskins want to make a splash, Wright thinks a big receiver like Michigan State's Devin Thomas or Texas's Sweed could be the pick.


Just thought that was pretty cool, heres the link if anyone cares, http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=35187 .

Scott Wright
04-13-2008, 07:26 AM
Didn't really know where to put this but it ties into the latest mock draft. Gary Fitzgerald of redskins.com recently did a survey of the web and television media to find out who the so called mock experts are selcting for the redskins at 21. And not surprisingly he had really good things to say about NFLDC when he got to them on the survey, check it out...

-- Scott Wright, NFL Draft Countdown
No. 21: Calais Campbell, DE, Miami
Redskins.com comment: This is one of the best NFL Draft sites on the web, in my opinion. Wright points out that Campbell's former defensive line coach John Palermo is now in charge of the Redskins' defensive line. But if the Redskins want to make a splash, Wright thinks a big receiver like Michigan State's Devin Thomas or Texas's Sweed could be the pick.


Just thought that was pretty cool, heres the link if anyone cares, http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=35187 .

Good find man, that is pretty cool.

xooberon
04-13-2008, 08:39 AM
good panthers mock scott. i really like albert, especially the versatility he brings to the table. in the 2nd safety is a good pick, although i might prefer dre moore in that situation

AtariBigby
04-13-2008, 06:36 PM
Nobody knows what Ted Thompson will do.
He might be perfectly happy with the progress of our OL.
He might be perfectly happy with our CB's.
He might be perfectly happy with Brandon Jackson, DeShawn Wynn, Vernand Morency as backups, since each was a starter for awhile last season.
He might be perfectly happy with Donald Lee at TE.

Your guess is as good as ours is, as good as flipping a coin......

CC.SD
04-13-2008, 07:00 PM
Matt Ryan IS the number 1 QB. It only takes one team's grade to make him a higher pick than Matty or Cutler were.

BlindSite
04-13-2008, 07:08 PM
You know the more I see the albert pick next to carolina I like it. Hell it would at least give the Panthers some more versatility along that offensive line.

With 4 guys already able to play multiple positions.

keylime_5
04-13-2008, 07:11 PM
Baltimore won't trade up. They know that KC will probably not take Ryan and that he will fall to 8th overall. And if KC does stay and take Ryan 5th overall (highly unlikely) then they'll be content and take McKelvin who they really like anyways.

BlindSite
04-13-2008, 07:32 PM
If I were the ravens I'd look to trade down a little bit targeting Jenkins or Rogers-Cromartie then use the extra ammo to trade up for Brohm

CC.SD
04-13-2008, 08:11 PM
If I were the ravens I'd look to trade down a little bit targeting Jenkins or Rogers-Cromartie then use the extra ammo to trade up for Brohm

I think either Brohm or Flacco will be there in the 2nd for them. I guess it depends on whether or not Parcells wants to start over at QB, because Atlanta is definitely taking one in the first two picks.

Even if they're not, giving Troy Smith a shot isn't a doomsday scenario.

jdb1972
04-13-2008, 08:38 PM
Albert pick makes great sense for Carolina. He's the 3rd best lineman in the draft and the Panthers' starting line is Gross/Vincent/Kalil/Wharton/?. They need a fifth guy in there and Albert is the guy whether he's the LT or LG (I think they'd prefer him to be a left tackle). But the guards they signed probably will for the most part not be guys who make the final cut anyhow.
You don't sign 330+ pound guards (and certainly not three of them) if you're planning on running zone blocking. This also brings the Wahle release into sharper focus.

If they're not running zone blocking, Wharton and Hangardner (and possibly Bridges) don't make a lot of sense at guard with a relatively undersized center, which means they need to fill two guard spots with players not on the roster last year.

Vincent will probably start at RG unless he plays himself out of it, since he was a guy they actually targeted. Brown's a former starter, so he's likely on the roster. Fonoti... yeah, probably training camp fodder - unless he actually has his weight under control as rumored; in that case, he's all potential.

As I said, much greater need at RB than G.

Turbeauxdog
04-13-2008, 08:49 PM
I hope the Saints don't pass on Laws if he's there in the 2nd.

keylime_5
04-13-2008, 09:04 PM
You don't sign 330+ pound guards (and certainly not three of them) if you're planning on running zone blocking. This also brings the Wahle release into sharper focus.

If they're not running zone blocking, Wharton and Hangardner (and possibly Bridges) don't make a lot of sense at guard with a relatively undersized center, which means they need to fill two guard spots with players not on the roster last year.

Vincent will probably start at RG unless he plays himself out of it, since he was a guy they actually targeted. Brown's a former starter, so he's likely on the roster. Fonoti... yeah, probably training camp fodder - unless he actually has his weight under control as rumored; in that case, he's all potential.

As I said, much greater need at RB than G.

I think Carolina would much prefer have Vincent, Brown, and Wharton compete for the two guard spots and bring in a guy like Clady or Albert to be their left tackle. I hear that on most every teams' boards Long is the #1 tackle and Albert/Clady are 2/3 in some order (some have Clady 2, some Albert). In a nutshell, you are implying that Carolina doesn't want another starting lineman which is nuts, they want a good left tackle now - Gross is the only starting guy who is actually good, every other one is either below average or in Kalil's case inexperienced. Wharton is average yet he's their 2nd best OL now, which is not good. Carolina needs to upgrade now at O-Line or their offense will continue to suck, and they know this. Signing Milford Brown and Toniu Fonoti doesn't mean they won't draft a LT anymore, that's just dumb thinking.

CC.SD
04-13-2008, 09:10 PM
I think Carolina would much prefer have Vincent, Brown, and Wharton compete for the two guard spots and bring in a guy like Clady or Albert to be their left tackle. I hear that on most every teams' boards Long is the #1 tackle and Albert/Clady are 2/3 in some order (some have Clady 2, some Albert). In a nutshell, you are implying that Carolina doesn't want another starting lineman which is nuts, they want a good left tackle now - Gross is the only starting guy who is actually good, every other one is either below average or in Kalil's case inexperienced. Wharton is average yet he's their 2nd best OL now, which is not good. Carolina needs to upgrade now at O-Line or their offense will continue to suck, and they know this. Signing Milford Brown and Toniu Fonoti doesn't mean they won't draft a LT anymore, that's just dumb thinking.

If Fonoti makes it through training camp I'll eat 4 carne asada burritos in one sitting, in honor of his conquering his dehibilitating eating problem.

BlindSite
04-13-2008, 10:40 PM
I think Carolina would much prefer have Vincent, Brown, and Wharton compete for the two guard spots and bring in a guy like Clady or Albert to be their left tackle. I hear that on most every teams' boards Long is the #1 tackle and Albert/Clady are 2/3 in some order (some have Clady 2, some Albert). In a nutshell, you are implying that Carolina doesn't want another starting lineman which is nuts, they want a good left tackle now - Gross is the only starting guy who is actually good, every other one is either below average or in Kalil's case inexperienced. Wharton is average yet he's their 2nd best OL now, which is not good. Carolina needs to upgrade now at O-Line or their offense will continue to suck, and they know this. Signing Milford Brown and Toniu Fonoti doesn't mean they won't draft a LT anymore, that's just dumb thinking.

Wharton is a better guard than anyone gives him credit for when he's played at guard he hasn't given up a TFL or a sack. At tackle he's less than average though.

Gross at RT is on the level of most probowlers and to an extent all pro's. Len Pasquerlli is the only person to have noticed his stand out play. Last year runs to the right side offered up a 4.3 ypc average and Gross didn't surrender one sack the entire season.

A tackle who gets good push and protects well with old men, rookies and useless journeyman at QB is worth his weight in gold. I don't want to see him shoveled at LT for no good reason other than the team didn't draft one.

A starting line of Albert/Clady Vincent, Kalil, Mathis/Bridges, Gross would be solid, especially in such a weak division. The saints defense won't scare anyone and Atlanta still needs a lot of help. Tampa is really the only team with a defensive line that would be an match for that sort of offensive line.

All of this though is on the provision that line finds cohesion. Albert and Clady would either be an upgrade over Wharton, even if Albert isn't a probowl tackle. He'd only need to be average to be a justifiable pick imo.

georgiafan
04-14-2008, 09:01 AM
Excellent job with the falcons

Iamcanadian
04-14-2008, 09:32 AM
Baltimore won't trade up. They know that KC will probably not take Ryan and that he will fall to 8th overall. And if KC does stay and take Ryan 5th overall (highly unlikely) then they'll be content and take McKelvin who they really like anyways.

Every year that a team puts off solving its QB position equates to another 3 or 4 years before that team will be competitive, as it takes 3 or 4 years for most QB's to mature into productive players.
I just don't see how you can say KC won't take Ryan, Croyle is so frail, he'll never stay healthy long enough to take KC anywhere. I could easily see a scenario where KC trades with NE so NE can jump their bitter rivals the Jets for the defensive player they really desire since the Jets play the exact same defense and are likely to covet the exact same player. That would leave KC free to draft Ryan at #7 which is about the value position of where he deserves to go and still have an extra draft pick from NE.
Baltimore has to be asking the same question, how many years are we prepared to wait before we are a serious contender again. I could see them trading with even Oakland to beat KC to Ryan. GM's who don't produce winners within 3 or 4 years tend to get fired and don't always have the luxury to wait for the perfect QB prospect. While trades into the top 5 are rare in every decade, the ones that do occur more often than not involve a QB so predicting a trade up for Ryan is not without merit.

mqtirishfan
04-14-2008, 03:51 PM
Baltimore won't trade up. They know that KC will probably not take Ryan and that he will fall to 8th overall. And if KC does stay and take Ryan 5th overall (highly unlikely) then they'll be content and take McKelvin who they really like anyways.

The McKelvin part makes total sense. The player KC wants does not, because a team can trade up to snag him in front of Baltimore.