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View Full Version : DeSean Jackson = just how good ?


ninerfan
04-13-2008, 12:18 AM
Help pls. Living downunder I have limited access to college ball and live and die on the bits and pieces I get here.

Just how good is DeSean Jackson and is he a fit for the 9ers in the 1st ? I cant help but see measurables of 5'10" 170 and think no way will this guy succeed in the NFL. Can someone (with knowledge) pls advise ? Ta

d34ng3l021
04-13-2008, 12:23 AM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZQca0m1Pe4g

Thats how.

neko4
04-13-2008, 12:27 AM
i think he'd be a great player in a spread offense like Green Bay or New England's
I dont believe he'll ever become a number 1 target though

UncleHulka
04-13-2008, 12:28 AM
He could be a dangerous slot option with added value due to his kick/punt return ability. Not a bad combination at all imo. Remember how early Ginn went last year (even though that was a dubious pick). Everybody wants the next Devin Hester.

I kinda doubt he slides to SF though. I can see Tampa Bay or Dallas taking him.

doingthisinsteadofwork
04-13-2008, 12:33 AM
He could probably make a good #2 WR.Not a #1 WR.Hes fast,quick,has good awareness,and good hands.

Paranoidmoonduck
04-13-2008, 12:38 AM
I think that one could argue that the importance of being a "#1 target" is becoming more and more diminished as the spread offense becomes more popular, because a slot receivers can do significant amounts of damage.

Jackson does appear to be an excellent fit for Mike Martz and would probably breathe some explosive life into a San Francisco offense that has been trying in vain to get that sort of threat from Vernon Davis (to no avail).

I do like Jackson, but he isn't the next big dominant wideout in the draft. Honestly though, I don't see a single guy in this draft who I would bet any amount of money on becoming that sort of guy. Jackson is going to be an intriguing weapon for an offense that doesn't try to make him something he isn't, and San Francisco appears to be as good a fit as there is.

holt_bruce81
04-13-2008, 12:39 AM
He's a dangerous slot receiver but I don't see him ever being a #1 or #2 for any team.

ninerfan
04-13-2008, 12:44 AM
Is his size (lack of) not a concern ? It appears he's pretty elusive at college level but isnt he just going to be a non factor in the pro's ? Can he seperate, run crisp routes and get yards after the catch ? Can he survive a solid hit ?

Caddy
04-13-2008, 12:46 AM
Jackson is a major hot/cold type of prospect in the a lot of people either really like him or really hate him, with not a whole lot in the middle.

I'm on the really like him side of the coin and think he can be a dominant threat in the NFL on offense and on special teams. Hopefully he will be off the board at #20 and you won't even have to worry about picking him.

FrankGore
04-13-2008, 12:47 AM
In a Mike Martz system his lack of size will be irrelevant. He'll be asked to work the slot primarily and return kicks and he'd add a huge boost to both those areas of the game.

If he's available, the Niners have to think very hard about adding him. They haven't had raw speed like that at WR...Jason Hill isn't as fast as his times last year, though he could still be pretty good. But Jackson weaving around the center of the field could be deadly and anytime an offense THAT bad can add a scoring threat, they have to consider it.

Paranoidmoonduck
04-13-2008, 01:01 AM
For all the talk of Jackson's lack of size, the guy has shown a willingness to go across the middle, can take a shot, protects himself well, and I've never seen him develop a case of alligator arms. He is small and some safeties will blow him up, but I think the kids attitude plays a positive role in overcoming that.

Another nice note if Jackson lands in San Francisco; he's been working out with Jerry Rice this offseason.

SchizophrenicBatman
04-13-2008, 01:18 AM
I'm not sure I saw Jackson get touched once in that entire highlight reel

That's not going to cut it in the NFL. If you're going to be a top WR at that size (Smith, S. Moss) you have to be able to fight off tacklers with the best of them. The only guy sub 6' I know of who avoids contact is Marvin Harrison and he's one of the best route runners in the game plus he has the Colts offense. Unless he's more physical than that video lets on he looks like a returner/slot guy to me

no love
04-13-2008, 01:34 AM
Is his size (lack of) not a concern ? It appears he's pretty elusive at college level but isnt he just going to be a non factor in the pro's ? Can he seperate, run crisp routes and get yards after the catch ? Can he survive a solid hit ?

Desean Jackson is a NATURAL wide receiver. Whats so impressive is that he rarely fights the ball and plucks the ball out of the air without letting it get into this body, this is exactly what you want in your slot guy. He can separate better on deep routes because he can make those cuts at full speed, but he doesn't seem to have the vision to find open areas as well as someone like Hawkins which will be important for the slot position.

His elusiveness is going to be a huge factor in the pros. He doesn't usually take huge shots once he has the ball in his hands because he avoids the hit, but he can get alligator arms when he takes a big shot early in the game. He will also come out and miss plays more then I'd like.

However, I will be frank... Anytime a guy weighs 170 lbs it is a concern. Also he is only 5'9" so it's not like he has a large frame to get bigger. He will probably max out at 180's. But because of his size you have to wonder if he will be able to beat a jam in the pros or take the big hits that will inevitably come.

That being said Martz's offense is perfect for receivers of smaller stature and Isaac Bruce will be a great mentor. One thing about both Bruce and Holt was they knew when to get down on the ground and not take the big hit. Sometimes its better to just go down and live to play another down, this has been a big reason why both guys have had such long, relatively injury free careers.

LonghornsLegend
04-13-2008, 01:54 AM
He's not built like Steve Smith or Santana Moss, so before anyone tries to use that comparison, steve smith has huge legs and incredible lower body strength, santana moss is 200 lbs, neither of which we can say about Jackson...He's an incredible WR, but unless he learns the art of "how to get tackled" that Marvin Harrison, Torry Holt, Reggie Wayne and a few others have mastered he will be in trouble...Slots are required to go across the middle primarily, the first time he gets hit by a MLB or SS I want to see how he reacts...If he wants to play the same, will he get hurt easily, all of those things concern me.


His ability to play WR doesnt concern me, he is very elusive, explosive, moves well in open space, but we've seen time and time again those guys go to the next level and look pedestrian...He needs about 20 lbs at least for me to be able to consider him a decent #2 threat, but when he's around 160 lbs you cant expect him to get off the line vs corners in Green Bay at his size, unless someone intends on him being a lifetime slot which is fine also.

KCJ58
04-13-2008, 02:24 AM
he's very good, Ted Ginn Jr. good

dbtb135
04-13-2008, 03:09 AM
I don't see why people say he can't be a #2 WR in the NFL, given many of the let's say "not so talented" WRs who have come to start in this league. For instance Todd Pinkston was 180 at 6'3 (6 inches taller) as well as significantly less talented, and started for 4 or 5 seasons. I think Jackson can bulk up to 180, which isn't too bad at 5'9 and use the contact rules in place for CBs to his advantage on his way to being a pretty productive starter, though not #1 option, for a team.

d34ng3l021
04-13-2008, 03:18 AM
he's very good, Ted Ginn Jr. good

hes very good. Ted Ginn Jr. better.

Jakey
04-13-2008, 06:59 AM
Jackson > Ginn

Scott Wright
04-13-2008, 07:29 AM
I think he's very good but expectations needs to be managed and realistic. Is he ever going to be a true #1 wideout a la Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, etc? No. Can he be a great #2 or slot guy as well as one of the elite return men in the game? Absolutely.

Sniper
04-13-2008, 08:41 AM
IFor instance Todd Pinkston was 180 at 6'3 (6 inches taller) as well as significantly less talented, and started for 4 or 5 seasons.

The Eagles also rank receivers slightly below dog **** in their system.

etk
04-13-2008, 09:02 AM
Just how good is DeSean Jackson and is he a fit for the 9ers in the 1st ? I cant help but see measurables of 5'10" 170 and think no way will this guy succeed in the NFL. Can someone (with knowledge) pls advise ? Ta

You just answered yourself right there. Not even a world-beater like Jerry Rice could overcome that lack of size. I couldn't have said it any better.....there is no way this guy will succeed in the NFL.

Smokey Joe
04-13-2008, 09:04 AM
He's a poor man's Devin Hester in the return game...

CC.SD
04-13-2008, 11:38 AM
He's not better than Ted Ginn, but he's more pro ready. I think he'll do okay, but never be that spectacular. I could easily see a Donte Stallworth type career coming together for him.

619
04-13-2008, 11:43 AM
I think he's very good but expectations needs to be managed and realistic. Is he ever going to be a true #1 wideout a la Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, etc? No. Can he be a great #2 or slot guy as well as one of the elite return men in the game? Absolutely.

Thank you Scott!

He's a dangerous slot receiver but I don't see him ever being a #1 or #2 for any team.

Have you seen Joey Galloway lately?

foozball
04-13-2008, 12:19 PM
i really dont know what all this #1 or #2 talk is. what i expect from djax is a guy who probably wont rack up the receptions, but will make the most out the touches he does get.

art vandelay
04-13-2008, 12:31 PM
I'll say he will be a little bit better than Roscoe Parrish, but that's it. The two are extremely similar players. I wouldn't take him until the mid-2nd at the highest.

Flyboy
04-13-2008, 12:33 PM
I see him being one of the most explosive players in the league.

soybean
04-13-2008, 12:34 PM
He's a poor man's Devin Hester in the return game...

he had a stretch of returning 6 punts for TDs out of like 27.

he was much better return man than hester was in college.

kiranadwaney
04-13-2008, 12:35 PM
I think he i better than Ginn coming into the NFL but does not have as much upside as Ginn. I can see Jackson falling out the first round because he is too small to be a great reciever.

theMadStork
04-13-2008, 06:16 PM
i saw Ginn all thru college and Jackson has a much better game than Ginn as a receiver and returner.

as for a poor man's Hester...i don't think he's out of Hesters league as far as college returns are concerned. with both of them in college, you felt they'd bring it to the house every time they touched it. Ginn was never quite in that league.

I think Jackson is gonna be a superstar at best and a pro bowl returner at least.

theMadStork
04-13-2008, 06:21 PM
he had a stretch of returning 6 punts for TDs out of like 27.

he was much better return man than hester was in college.

like I said above, i think Jackson and Hester are pretty close in terms of college return ability. At Miami, like in the pros, everybody was kicking away from hester.
Jackson got the same treatment.
jackson never really returned kick offs as far as I remember. i think that's what Hester is best at.

lordquas
04-13-2008, 06:28 PM
he will tear up the return game just wait and see.

d jack = amazing

PACKmanN
04-13-2008, 06:30 PM
wow when I was watching the highlight reel all I could think of was Greg Jennings.

He would be a great weapon in our offense, allow him to do what he does best, get yards after the catch.

BeerBaron
04-13-2008, 06:35 PM
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d807bbb91&template=with-video&confirm=true

good article about him. long time nfl scout basically calls him lazy and says hes been getting by on simply being better than the defenders he blows past, a luxury he wont have in the pros....

makes me question him as a first rounder especially now...

vinivedivichi
04-13-2008, 06:37 PM
I think he i better than Ginn coming into the NFL but does not have as much upside as Ginn. I can see Jackson falling out the first round because he is too small to be a great reciever.

This pretty much sums it up. The Ginn comparison has been made time after time, but Ginn has more upside if only for his size advantage. Jackson may be more of a receiver than Ginn coming out of Ohio State, but his size is a real concern, and I'd be surprised if anyone was willing to use a first round pick on him.

CC.SD
04-13-2008, 07:02 PM
This pretty much sums it up. The Ginn comparison has been made time after time, but Ginn has more upside if only for his size advantage. Jackson may be more of a receiver than Ginn coming out of Ohio State, but his size is a real concern, and I'd be surprised if anyone was willing to use a first round pick on him.

I never thought I'd hear someone say Ginn has a size advantage on anyone, but here we are.

lordquas
04-13-2008, 07:16 PM
ginn - 5'11 178
d jack - 5'10 170 ( still time to add weight)

its the same dam size basically. 1 inch doesnt matter. especially when jackson has more ups than ginn..

no love
04-13-2008, 07:30 PM
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d807bbb91&template=with-video&confirm=true

good article about him. long time nfl scout basically calls him lazy and says hes been getting by on simply being better than the defenders he blows past, a luxury he wont have in the pros....

makes me question him as a first rounder especially now...

I wouldn't worry too much about his work ethic as he is a competitor and doesn't really seem like the type who would cash it in when he gets to the pros.

He does need to have a tough coach though. Tedford is a hard coach and I think that it is going to be important that he gets that at the next level. He can let his emotions get the best of him and shows poor body language (see the USC game at times).

etk
04-13-2008, 07:35 PM
I'll say he will be a little bit better than Roscoe Parrish, but that's it. The two are extremely similar players. I wouldn't take him until the mid-2nd at the highest.

Agree on everything.

I see him being one of the most explosive players in the league.

So is Roscoe Parrish....that doesn't make Parrish a great player or first round talent.

ginn - 5'11 178
d jack - 5'10 170 ( still time to add weight)

its the same dam size basically. 1 inch doesnt matter. especially when jackson has more ups than ginn..

I think 1.5 inches and 9 pounds is a lot when you're talking about guys that small, plus Ginn had an injury so he probably couldn't do the necessary strength training before the combine weigh-in. I doubt he's below 180-185 right now. Good point on the hops though. Players like Harry Douglas and Jackson have to use their jumping ability a lot more than others.

BlindSite
04-13-2008, 07:46 PM
The problem with jackson is he currently weighs as much as my left leg.

He's got great running, change of direction, catching whatever ability but he's never going to be able to wrestle a ball away from a defender or run through a defenders arm tackles like Steve Smith is capable of doing.

The two are similar in their skill set but Jackson lacks the strength needed to make that skill set elite in the NFL.

CC.SD
04-13-2008, 08:10 PM
The problem with jackson is he currently weighs as much as my left leg.

He's got great running, change of direction, catching whatever ability but he's never going to be able to wrestle a ball away from a defender or run through a defenders arm tackles like Steve Smith is capable of doing.

The two are similar in their skill set but Jackson lacks the strength needed to make that skill set elite in the NFL.

Your left leg is a BEAST.

etk
04-13-2008, 08:27 PM
The problem with jackson is he currently weighs as much as my left leg.



My 3rd leg weighs as much as Jackson. Yes when I lean forward I am a tripod.

lordquas
04-13-2008, 08:37 PM
thats just ****** up then. no girl i know likes 170 pound shlongs

CC.SD
04-13-2008, 08:47 PM
thats just ****** up then. no girl i know likes 170 pound shlongs

You're clearly not meeting the right girls. Step out of the prayer meeting, buddy.

lordquas
04-13-2008, 08:49 PM
You're clearly not meeting the right girls. Step out of the prayer meeting, buddy.
you're not meeting any girls

Iamcanadian
04-13-2008, 10:36 PM
He's not built like Steve Smith or Santana Moss, so before anyone tries to use that comparison, steve smith has huge legs and incredible lower body strength, santana moss is 200 lbs, neither of which we can say about Jackson...He's an incredible WR, but unless he learns the art of "how to get tackled" that Marvin Harrison, Torry Holt, Reggie Wayne and a few others have mastered he will be in trouble...Slots are required to go across the middle primarily, the first time he gets hit by a MLB or SS I want to see how he reacts...If he wants to play the same, will he get hurt easily, all of those things concern me.


His ability to play WR doesnt concern me, he is very elusive, explosive, moves well in open space, but we've seen time and time again those guys go to the next level and look pedestrian...He needs about 20 lbs at least for me to be able to consider him a decent #2 threat, but when he's around 160 lbs you cant expect him to get off the line vs corners in Green Bay at his size, unless someone intends on him being a lifetime slot which is fine also.

Very good assessment IMO. Jackson is 167lbs. soaking wet and after a few games, he probably is down to around 160lbs. I don't think he will even be a 1st rounder because he is way below the minimum weight that the NFL lists as the minimum weigh for a NFL WR. I cannot see anyway he stays healthy in the pros, he'll be a walking wounded his hole career in the NFL.
There is only 1 receiver in the NFL who weighs anything close to Jackson and that is Rosacoe Parrish who just cannot stay healthy. Add that to the fact that there has never been a very successful WR who is even close to Jackson's weight and I just cannot see a team taking a 1st round risk on him.
A team would have to be desperate to take him in round 1 and IMO, San Fran is the only team that possibly would consider him in round 1. It's a make or break year for Nolan and he just might be desperate enough to draft him.
Outside of Parrish, any small receiver you try to compare him to has at least 15 to 25 lbs on him. Jackson doesn't have the frame to add an once to his weight and probably completely stuffed himself before his weigh in to get up to 167lbs.

asmitty45
04-13-2008, 10:37 PM
Kid can probably be great on ST, but unless he gets in a situation where he can be exclusively a vertical threat he may not pan out too well.

Id take him in the 2nd if i was a team in need

BlindSite
04-13-2008, 10:48 PM
You get my point though 170 pounds is around 75kg in the measure out here, I weigh 80kgs now and was up to 100 when I used to weight lift / play rugby. Even then playing flanker in rugby (similar in size in professional rugby to most RBs and linebackers) there were times when I got hit and I didn't get up. This was just high school rugby by guys weighing around 220-250 pounds.

Even if Jackson has like 5% body fat, if he got hit by a linebacker who can lay the wood like Thomas Davis or Brian Urlacher he's going to be in a world of hurt. Hell if he gets arm tackled by most safeties he's not going to be able to break free. Same if he goes up for a jump ball, the safe money is he won't be able to wrestle it free.

no love
04-13-2008, 11:24 PM
thats just ****** up then. no girl i know likes 170 pound shlongs

Strange. Your mom seemed to think overwise....

Sorry, couldn't resist.

dbtb135
04-14-2008, 12:02 AM
The Eagles also rank receivers slightly below dog **** in their system.

Not the point. Todd Pinkston is hardly the only below-average WR who has started in the NFL. Look at the Vikings or the Niners or the Titans. Even my Bucs had to have Clayton stink it up on the field for almost 3 seasons as a starter. The Falcons used to have terrible WRs. The Lions have had below average, system WRs. The Pats had poor WRs for a time. Miami had questionable at best WRs this past year. The Chiefs the past 5 years. The Ravens WRs are average, though their QBs suck. The Bears were the same way. It's not like every starting WR is a good WR, so why write off a guy with Jackson's talent to at least become a decent #2 option? Limiting him to a good slot guy, when slot guys almost always get bumped up or leave for a starting spot (Randle El for instance), doesn't quite make sense.