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View Full Version : Sleeper WR's (the next T-Owens, Steve Smith, Donald Driver, TJ Houshmanzadeh....)


AtariBigby
04-13-2008, 10:32 PM
Tons of great WR's are found after round one is in the books.
T.O., Steve Smith, Driver, Greg Jennings, TJ, Chad Johnson, Hines Ward, Marques Colston........none were 1st round picks and some 7th rounders.

Who are the best bets for this draft class to give us some gems down the road at WR, that come in rounds 3 or later? Day two steals?

Contrary to that, tons of bust WR's ARE FOUND in round ONE.
Charles Rogers #3 overall, Peter Warrick #4 overall, Troy Williamson, Mike Williams both top tenners, Marcus Nash, Troy Edwards, Travis Taylor, Sylvestor Morris, RJ Soward, Frauddy Mitchell, Rod Gardner, Ashley Lelie, Michael Clayton (I know had good rookie season, but since then crap), Michael Jenkins, Rashuan Woods all have been recent wastes of round one picks.

Eddie Royal?
William Franklin?
Marcus Monk?
Dexter Jackson?
Keenan Burton?
Steve Johnson?
Ryan Grice-Mullins?
Kenny Moore?
Mario Uruttia?
DJ Hall?

Super Sleepers> Marcus Henry or Maurice Purify? Ernie Wheelwright or Cameron Colvin?
Ernie is almost 6-5, solid, and runs a 4.52.

I'm certain that someone or more than one, from this list will end up being a Pro Bowl WR, and I'd take a lot of them before Mario Manningham, for my team.

Who's your money on?

bored of education
04-13-2008, 10:36 PM
William Franklin, Andre Caldwell, Earl Bennett

some real sleepers Joe West and Marcus Henry

619
04-13-2008, 10:36 PM
Not sure if he will go in round three or later but the first guy that came to mind was Jerome Simpson.

asmitty45
04-13-2008, 10:40 PM
Burton and Urrutia i think have the best chance to be sleepers, also adrian arrington is a nice reciever, but he should have stayed in school

SKim172
04-13-2008, 10:42 PM
Jerome Simpson - I agree.

Aftermath
04-13-2008, 10:44 PM
Keep your eyes on Cam Colvin

critesy
04-13-2008, 10:45 PM
earl bennett is flying under the radar, i think he'll be a beauty.

reminds me of reggie wayne in a way.

lordquas
04-13-2008, 10:46 PM
my top 3 sleepers.
1. Keenan Burton, Kentucky
2. Ryan Grice-Mullen, Hawaii
3. Chaz Schilens, San Diego State

Schilens especially isnt getting a lot of attention.
great size (6'4 210)
runs a 4.38 40.
has a vertical of 43"! (same as Calvin Johnson i believe)

eaglesfan_45
04-13-2008, 10:47 PM
Lance Leggett WR miami 6'3" 4.43 40 yard dash

lionsfan81
04-13-2008, 10:48 PM
Adrian Arrington, Jordy Nelson, Cameron Colvin, and Luke Swan. Luke Swan especially needs more love, he wont ever be elite, but he will be a solid posession WR.

BeerBaron
04-13-2008, 10:49 PM
simpson simpson simpson. something about him i really like....hopefully he ends up a bear in round 3...i really hope

Yung Flippa
04-13-2008, 10:51 PM
- Lance Leggett, The U
- Marcus Smith, New Mexico

lordquas
04-13-2008, 10:53 PM
leggett never really did anything for miami. dont know why hes getting so much love

MetSox17
04-13-2008, 10:54 PM
Marcus Monk.

Once he gets with a QB that can actually get him the ball, he'll be very good,
so long as he can stay healthy (knee)

Nemmasisn4sir
04-13-2008, 10:55 PM
Marcus Monk outside
Dexter Jackson slot

draftguru151
04-13-2008, 10:58 PM
If Maurice Purify has his head on straight I think he can surprise.

BlindSite
04-13-2008, 11:00 PM
Keenan Burton reminds me of James Jones.

LonghornsLegend
04-13-2008, 11:03 PM
Jerome Simpson is not a sleeper anymore, he was awhile back but his stock has risen, not to the level of DRC but he could surprise and go late 2nd with how some of these other WR's have fallen.



I really like Maurice Purify and what he has to offer, but another guy that nobody is talking about is Todd Blythe...He can really play, he has the fundamentals down like running polished routes, catching with his hands, but he's alot more athletic then people will want to give him credit for...I think he's going to be a steal for somebody, although his stock warrants him being drafted late I could see him blossoming.

AtariBigby
04-13-2008, 11:16 PM
simpson simpson simpson. something about him i really like....hopefully he ends up a bear in round 3...i really hope

Well then, cross Simpson off then as a future Pro Bowler. :p

AtariBigby
04-13-2008, 11:19 PM
Jerome Simpson is not a sleeper anymore, he was awhile back but his stock has risen, not to the level of DRC but he could surprise and go late 2nd with how some of these other WR's have fallen.

I really like Maurice Purify and what he has to offer, but another guy that nobody is talking about is Todd Blythe...He can really play, he has the fundamentals down like running polished routes, catching with his hands, but he's alot more athletic then people will want to give him credit for...I think he's going to be a steal for somebody, although his stock warrants him being drafted late I could see him blossoming.


I like what you said, but who says Simpson's stock has risen? The mocksters?
Last year, everyone had that tight end Ben Patrick's stock rising way up, and he didn't go anywhere near it. Two years ago the mockers rose Dwayne Slay's stock way up.

But GMs don't go by what our mocks show, or what Scott or Mel or McShays mocks show......

Let's see how it plays out. There are always risers and free fallers, but our mocks are often way off.

LonghornsLegend
04-13-2008, 11:21 PM
I like what you said, but who says Simpson's stock has risen? The mocksters?
Last year, everyone had that tight end Ben Patrick's stock rising way up, and he didn't go anywhere near it. Two years ago the mockers rose Dwayne Slay's stock way up.

But GMs don't go by what our mocks show, or what Scott or Mel or McShays mocks show......

Let's see how it plays out. There are always risers and free fallers, but our mocks are often way off.


I dont think mocksters have much to do with it, the combine speaks for itself...When your going over the times and jumps for WR's and you keep seeing the same name at the top of different categories, thats going to push you up...He might not go before certain big names, but at this point I could see him go before Malcolm Kelly if the knee injuries arent false.

BlindSite
04-13-2008, 11:24 PM
People put too much faith in the combine imo. After reading "The GM" "The draft" "Next man up" "The blueprint" etc, it seems most staff still emphasize game film over triangle numbers.

The numbers add weight to what they've seen but don't alter the list in and of themselves.

AtariBigby
04-13-2008, 11:28 PM
People put too much faith in the combine imo. After reading "The GM" "The draft" "Next man up" "The blueprint" etc, it seems most staff still emphasize game film over triangle numbers.

The numbers add weight to what they've seen but don't alter the list in and of themselves.

I agree mate.
Game Film is a hehluva lot more important than combine film.
Thank God my GM never gets fooled for those combine babies.
I want guys that produce on the field, like Greg Jennings from W Michigan who led the NCAA in receiving.

The combine should be moved to the X-Games or Summer Olympics.

( But I'd still watch it lol )

no love
04-13-2008, 11:28 PM
Keep your eyes on Cam Colvin

Ugh this guy was supposed to be dominant. Now most people just know him from his De La Salle days.

I am going to say James Hardy. He will be a TD MACHINE!

Unbiased
04-13-2008, 11:34 PM
Lance Leggett WR miami 6'3" 4.43 40 yard dash

Has a horrible attitude, though. One of my least favorite players.

Unbiased
04-13-2008, 11:35 PM
Harry Douglass

AtariBigby
04-13-2008, 11:40 PM
Ugh this guy was supposed to be dominant. Now most people just know him from his De La Salle days.

I am going to say James Hardy. He will be a TD MACHINE!

He's a first rounder in Gosselin's mock, so reach deeper amigo........

LonghornsLegend
04-13-2008, 11:43 PM
I agree mate.
Game Film is a hehluva lot more important than combine film.
Thank God my GM never gets fooled for those combine babies.
I want guys that produce on the field, like Greg Jennings from W Michigan who led the NCAA in receiving.

The combine should be moved to the X-Games or Summer Olympics.

( But I'd still watch it lol )



That would be correct if Simpson looked bad on film, which he doesnt...He looks like an athletic freak out there, and you can watch a few plays and tell he has incredible upside, combine the fact that he's the leader or near the leader board in every major testing category to do in the offseason makes him not a sleeper...I didnt say that will make him good, just said that I wouldnt consider him a sleeper anymore, I guess you could put him in that category but guys like Donald Driver were drafted in the 7th rd, thats completely different then where Simpson will be taken, and how many teams are bubbling about Simpson right now.

badgerbacker
04-13-2008, 11:44 PM
Adrian Arrington, Jordy Nelson, Cameron Colvin, and Luke Swan. Luke Swan especially needs more love, he wont ever be elite, but he will be a solid posession WR.Luke Swan is the man. I'm guessing there is no way he is drafted though. Serious questions about his speed never were answered because he was injured during the season and never able to really work out. I hope he makes a team next year, but the Fennimore Flash has a lot of things going against him right now...

holt_bruce81
04-13-2008, 11:45 PM
William Franklin and Maurice Purify

Leon Sandcastle
04-13-2008, 11:56 PM
Too bad Bowman had to screw up his draft stock with his off the field troubles but I saw a lot of Owens/Marshall in him.

I like Steve Johnson for some reason.

jared
04-14-2008, 12:01 AM
Luke Swan is the man. I'm guessing there is no way he is drafted though. Serious questions about his speed never were answered because he was injured during the season and never able to really work out. I hope he makes a team next year, but the Fennimore Flash has a lot of things going against him right now...

I hope you're wrong. 7 teams showed up to watch his personal workout and he put numbers that were absolutely bananas. Scouts apparently left impressed and figure priority UDFA is a worst case scenario for him.

badgerbacker
04-14-2008, 12:02 AM
I hope you're wrong. 7 teams showed up to watch his personal workout and he put numbers that were absolutely bananas. Scouts apparently left impressed and figure priority UDFA is a worst case scenario for him.Really? What numbers did he put up? All I had heard about was the Badgers Pro day which he just kind of went through the motions.

jared
04-14-2008, 12:08 AM
38.5" VJ, 10' 9.5" BJ, 3.91 SS !, 6.56 3-cone, 11.1 60 yd shuttle. He looked like a stud during drills as well.
No 40 unfortunately. I've heard different accounts of why he didn't run it.

jnew76
04-14-2008, 12:28 AM
Arman Shields-WR-Richmond was hurt his senior year in the second game. He had decent production in college prior without anyone to really get him the ball. He had a great combine and I like how he moves in and out of cuts. I think that he can be a really good #3 in his rookie year and potentially be a #1 in 3-4 years.

JagHombre22
04-14-2008, 12:34 AM
I like Arrington from Michigan....

KCJ58
04-14-2008, 12:36 AM
I like Marcus Monk & Ryan Grice-Mullen to be sleeper stars, if they get drafted to the right team

CC.SD
04-14-2008, 01:22 AM
Jordy Nelson. ZZZZZZZ.

ChezPower4
04-14-2008, 01:30 AM
DJ Hall, Alabama

Caddy
04-14-2008, 01:47 AM
For a non 1st round wideout, I'd have to go with Early Doucet. I think he has the potential to create a Reggie Wayne like niche in the NFL.

fenikz
04-14-2008, 02:25 AM
Steve Johnson WR Kentucky

he was there best receiver last year and that includes Tamme and Burton, the man is a lot faster than his 40 time and has great hands, scott has him listed as late round/fa, i bet his goes in the 4th

kiranadwaney
04-14-2008, 04:19 AM
Ugh this guy was supposed to be dominant. Now most people just know him from his De La Salle days.

I am going to say James Hardy. He will be a TD MACHINE!

I agree James Hardy will be good, but i dont think he makes it to the third round. He will go somewhere from the late first to mid second in my opinion.

kiranadwaney
04-14-2008, 04:25 AM
Dexter Jackson will be a good slot reciever and return man but Keenan Burton can be a number one guy in the NFL. Both will be late round picks

Jakey
04-14-2008, 05:09 AM
- DJ Hall
- Keenan Burton
- Earl Bennett

Love all three of them!

DJC
04-14-2008, 05:49 AM
Im going to go with someone who I havent seen mentioned yet, Lavelle Hawkins. If he can find the right offense, I think he can be very good. He has good size, about the same as Holt. Not great timed speed, but is quick. Was in the shadow of Desean at Cal and had inconsistent QB play. He had a great senior bowl week too. I think he might become the best 3rd round WR and better than some of the 1st/2nd rounders.

Thunder&Lightning
04-14-2008, 07:03 AM
DJ Hall is my sleeper

eaglesalltheway
04-14-2008, 07:07 AM
My sleeoer WRs are Franklin and Monk. Last year I had James Jones as one of my sleepers. He wasn't anything special, but he certainly did help out the Pack a lot.

eaglesalltheway
04-14-2008, 07:09 AM
Im going to go with someone who I havent seen mentioned yet, Lavelle Hawkins. If he can find the right offense, I think he can be very good. He has good size, about the same as Holt. Not great timed speed, but is quick. Was in the shadow of Desean at Cal and had inconsistent QB play. He had a great senior bowl week too. I think he might become the best 3rd round WR and better than some of the 1st/2nd rounders.

I like Hawkins too, he is also a sleeper if you ask me. I really wouldn't mind if the Eagles drafted him with our second round pick, if we go OT or S in the first.

AtariBigby
04-14-2008, 07:30 AM
Good work fellas.

eaglesalltehway, you had James Jones last year?
Great call..... I never ever did, never had seen even a photo of him prior to us taking him, so obviously never had watched him play before at San Jose State. I was PO'd when we took him, but became a big fan of his and his character right away. I heard McCarthy say he kinda hit the wall during his first season in the NFL. But I tend to think that he or Favre just called his # less and Favre especially went to Koren Robinson too often.

Rjspartan
04-14-2008, 07:33 AM
Dexter Jackson and DJ Hall

Larry121283
04-14-2008, 08:00 AM
I think Jerome Simpson can become a Jeff Graham/Ernest Wilford (with speed) kind of player. He is a good one. I just don't know if he is considered a sleeper anymore.

Eddie Royal isn't a sleeper, but in the right system, he can really be a player.

Harry Douglas reminds me of a slower Marvin Harrison. I think he can be a real sleeper in the class. Runs good routes and plays much bigger than he is. He is the real sleeper. I think he has value as a second rounder, but he won't go nearly as high. If I had to pick one guy not on many radars, It'd be Harry Douglas. The only real knock on him is his size, but that doesn't stop good WRs in the NFL.

If I were to simply pick a non-round one player that is still on radars...I'd choose two. Jerome Simpson and Donnie Avery.

Iamcanadian
04-14-2008, 08:02 AM
I agree mate.
Game Film is a hehluva lot more important than combine film.
Thank God my GM never gets fooled for those combine babies.
I want guys that produce on the field, like Greg Jennings from W Michigan who led the NCAA in receiving.

The combine should be moved to the X-Games or Summer Olympics.

( But I'd still watch it lol )

The combine made Jennings not game film. He was a 5th rounder till he turned heads at the combine with a solid 40 time.
H...mmmm, watch film of Jennings breaking free of a CB in college who runs a 4.65 or a 4.70, that will surely tell you more than watching combine film where he lined up against Aaron Ross and/or Darrelle Revis in drills. Yeah, right.

Larry121283
04-14-2008, 08:07 AM
The combine made Jennings not game film. He was a 5th rounder till he turned heads at the combine with a solid 40 time.
H...mmmm, watch film of Jennings breaking free of a CB in college who runs a 4.65 or a 4.70, that will surely tell you more than watching combine film where he lined up against Aaron Ross and/or Darrelle Revis in drills. Yeah, right.

Game film > combine evaluations...every time and twice on Sunday.

You are kidding yourself if you think any large majority of a players grade is put on combine numbers.

The fact that he ran well is more a stamp on his draft grade and proved why he was so good in college over anything else. Not so much why his grade was high. Just solidified it. That draft class for WRs was light anyway...the second round was about his grade the whole way through.

Abaddon
04-14-2008, 08:44 AM
Jordy Nelson
Can't believe that took 10 posts to get to. ;)

LonghornsLegend
04-14-2008, 09:12 AM
Game film > combine evaluations...every time and twice on Sunday.

You are kidding yourself if you think any large majority of a players grade is put on combine numbers.

The fact that he ran well is more a stamp on his draft grade and proved why he was so good in college over anything else. Not so much why his grade was high. Just solidified it. That draft class for WRs was light anyway...the second round was about his grade the whole way through.


Yea but people are going overboard talking about the combines are overrated, you cant expect to use game film from guys like DRC or Jerome Simpson because the talent level is inferior so it doesnt make sense to you just their film does it...Thats how you get a chance to grade players on a fair level field and compare, its not like scouts are drafting guys strictly because they performed well at the combines, but its alot more important then you guys are acting like I can tell you that.

Larry121283
04-14-2008, 09:23 AM
Yea but people are going overboard talking about the combines are overrated, you cant expect to use game film from guys like DRC or Jerome Simpson because the talent level is inferior so it doesnt make sense to you just their film does it...Thats how you get a chance to grade players on a fair level field and compare, its not like scouts are drafting guys strictly because they performed well at the combines, but its alot more important then you guys are acting like I can tell you that.

The event is excessively overrated by the internet fans and draftniks.

There really is nothing to judge the players off of than irrelevant numbers in drills that may or may not actually correlate to success in the NFL. Most of the numbers are simply telling you something they already know.

Gametape for ANY prospects...regardless of school gives you the best idea of a grade. The All-Star Games/Bowl Games come in second. All-Star games are important for small school kids. It gives them a chance to showcase themselves on the field with their peers in the D1 levels.

Like I've said before here...the staff already knows, generally, what the 40 times of these kids are going to be. They've been tested since their early years of high school football...it isn't like they are completely unaware of what kind of numbers these guys will put up.

DRC is a perfect example...analysts were real high on him throughout the season, some had him in that early second round area because he really showed flashes of playmaking ability. The real event where DRC raised his stock into that first round area was the off-season All-Star games where he shut down Bowman and essentially his side of the field. That is the best place to grade these small school sleepers, not the combine. Now, DRC is in that mid-late first round area...not because of the combine, but because of the All-Star circuit. The combine is a place that typically confirms what you already knew, not so much showing you something you didn't.

eaglesalltheway
04-14-2008, 09:34 AM
Good work fellas.

eaglesalltehway, you had James Jones last year?
Great call..... I never ever did, never had seen even a photo of him prior to us taking him, so obviously never had watched him play before at San Jose State. I was PO'd when we took him, but became a big fan of his and his character right away. I heard McCarthy say he kinda hit the wall during his first season in the NFL. But I tend to think that he or Favre just called his # less and Favre especially went to Koren Robinson too often.

I can't take all the credit, someone else brought him up, and I looked up info on him, and thought he had a great chance of being a good WR in the NFL. I didn't thinkk he would go as early as he did, and was a little surprised by that, but didn't have him going to the Packers either. I just thought he woud be able to make an impact when I did research on him.

lod01
04-14-2008, 11:46 AM
Jerome Simpson - I agree.

Agree also. Love to see him picked by Cincinnati. He can take Henry's spot even though he isn't nearly as fast.

DHVF
04-14-2008, 12:38 PM
I think Wheelwright could be very good too. The problem in Minnesota IMO was the style of offense he'd been in for most of his career and a coaching staff that did absolutely nothing for developing wideouts. He's a guy with a lot of raw tools that should be looked at as atleast a very redzone threat, which is obvious given his size. That said, I could very easily see him as a Clarence Moore type who never can really get past that.

EvilMonkey
04-14-2008, 12:46 PM
I dont know if he's gonna be the next big sleeper, but Paul Hubbard has all the tools necessary to be great (6'3" 220, former track star) and I felt I should mention him.....

LonghornsLegend
04-14-2008, 01:14 PM
The event is excessively overrated by the internet fans and draftniks.

There really is nothing to judge the players off of than irrelevant numbers in drills that may or may not actually correlate to success in the NFL. Most of the numbers are simply telling you something they already know.

Gametape for ANY prospects...regardless of school gives you the best idea of a grade. The All-Star Games/Bowl Games come in second. All-Star games are important for small school kids. It gives them a chance to showcase themselves on the field with their peers in the D1 levels.

Like I've said before here...the staff already knows, generally, what the 40 times of these kids are going to be. They've been tested since their early years of high school football...it isn't like they are completely unaware of what kind of numbers these guys will put up.

DRC is a perfect example...analysts were real high on him throughout the season, some had him in that early second round area because he really showed flashes of playmaking ability. The real event where DRC raised his stock into that first round area was the off-season All-Star games where he shut down Bowman and essentially his side of the field. That is the best place to grade these small school sleepers, not the combine. Now, DRC is in that mid-late first round area...not because of the combine, but because of the All-Star circuit. The combine is a place that typically confirms what you already knew, not so much showing you something you didn't.



If scouts were going off strictly game film and not combines, Mike Williams and Dwayne Jarrett would be beast at the next level right? Only thing that got Mike Williams in the top 10 was not being at the combine the year he was being drafted...How about Andre Woodson, use him film and he's a 1st round guy.


Film is fine, but if you just use that criteria you will have an enormous amount of bust, systems come into play, competition, conferences, its so many other things to take into consideration that you HAVE to see guys work out..Would you take Kelly in the 1st round? Thats what his film suggest so obviously it doesnt matter that he runs a 4.6, John David Booty and everyother USC player should be first rd picks as well because all their film and highlights are usually pretty enticing, so whats the point of seeing them work out?


There really is nothing to judge the players off of than irrelevant numbers in drills that may or may not actually correlate to success in the NFL.

See, that shows your lack of knowledge of what even goes on at combines, people always forget the combines isnt all about numbers, you do know they see those guys go through lots and lots of drills? They arent just looking at a WR's 40 time and vertical, they are looking at his hands in every drill he runs, how well he performs under pressure with everyone watching, does he tuck the ball up after he catches it, does he catch with his hands or chest, how coordinated are his feet when he runs drills...Everything isnt about the timed events we talk about on here on the internet, scouts can go to watch these guys in drills first hand, their not going to draft him because he scored a bunch of td's for USC and looked good doing it, that makes no sense.


If you think the combine is overrated your seriously mistaken, why in the world are countless scouts, gm's and personell in attendance every year for an overrated event? Guess they were just on vacation using up spare time...There is ALOT more to a combine other then what we talk about here, its far from an overrated event, without it teams would be drafting alot more bust, alot earlier in the draft, all because "they looked good in film".

Mr. Stiller
04-14-2008, 01:29 PM
My guys:

Jabari Arthur, Akron ~ 6'4 225lbs
He may lack elite speed, but he's a reliable route runner and pass catcher. He's probably one of the best blocking WR's in the draft and he catches everything.

Robert Jordan, Cal ~ 5'11 172lbs
While DeSean Jackson and Lavelle Hawkins get most of the publicity, Jordan is flying under the radar. Jordan holds the record for most consecutive games with a reception. He may never be elite, but he could definitely be one of the top 5-10 Slot WR's in the game if he continues to progress.

Danny Amendola ~ 5'11 183lbs
While his 4.58 speed is disappointing that doesn't change the fact that he's a reliable pass catcher and just finds a way to get open. He's going to be ineviteably compared to Wes Welker, and while he doesn't have Wes' speed, he is a complete slot receiver.

Micah Rucker, Eastern Illinois ~ 6'6 217lbs
This one is purely on workout #'s and size. I'm intrigued by a 6'5 5/8" WR with a 4.47. He's very agile for his size as his triangle numbers would indicate. Maybe worth a flyer as a UDFA.

nhlkdog411
04-14-2008, 01:37 PM
i gotta agree with the one or two people who said luke swan..he wont be drafted till way late if at all i would imagine but the numbers he put up at the proday were freakin nuts..could be lethal in the slot i would imagine at the least.

Skibow
04-14-2008, 01:45 PM
Everybody seems to be "sleeping" on Andre Caldwell and Will Franklin. I hope the Bears land 1 of these guys.

Larry121283
04-14-2008, 01:48 PM
If scouts were going off strictly game film and not combines, Mike Williams and Dwayne Jarrett would be beast at the next level right? Only thing that got Mike Williams in the top 10 was not being at the combine the year he was being drafted...How about Andre Woodson, use him film and he's a 1st round guy.

Completely disagree on all counts. Without seeing his timed speed, everyone knew Mike Williams would have trouble separating in the pros, the same for Jarrett. Woodson was a first rounder before mid-season and dropped from then. The All-Star games were not kind to Woodson either. Fell long before the combine.


Film is fine, but if you just use that criteria you will have an enormous amount of bust, systems come into play, competition, conferences, its so many other things to take into consideration that you HAVE to see guys work out..Would you take Kelly in the 1st round? Thats what his film suggest so obviously it doesnt matter that he runs a 4.6, John David Booty and everyother USC player should be first rd picks as well because all their film and highlights are usually pretty enticing, so whats the point of seeing them work out?

I totally disagree again. You can evaluate a player with taking thing such as system, competition, etc. into play.

Working out is irrelevant, really. It is nice to see how guys grade out in the same conditions but by the point the combine rolls around, the evaluations are nearly complete. The triangle numbers simply confirm what most teams believe players to be. Malcolm Kelly was a late first, early second talent (no WR is a bonafide first round talent this year. The knee injury may have worried teams off, so you are looking at a mid-late second rounder...his draft grade isn't much further off than that now, so you really don't have a point.

JD Booty and many USC guys don't look all that great on film to begin with...again, don't see your point.

I've spoken to quite a few scouts that have come down to Gables to see practices, and many agree that the combine isn't all that important. It really is just a place to have the guys on display breaking down triangle numbers on an even surface and to get those ht/wt numbers and interview all of the kids. Sure, the combine means SOMETHING, but really...its overrated in the eyes of many guys around the 'net.

See, that shows your lack of knowledge of what even goes on at combines, people always forget the combines isnt all about numbers, you do know they see those guys go through lots and lots of drills? They arent just looking at a WR's 40 time and vertical, they are looking at his hands in every drill he runs, how well he performs under pressure with everyone watching, does he tuck the ball up after he catches it, does he catch with his hands or chest, how coordinated are his feet when he runs drills...Everything isnt about the timed events we talk about on here on the internet, scouts can go to watch these guys in drills first hand, their not going to draft him because he scored a bunch of td's for USC and looked good doing it, that makes no sense.

I go to High School combines on the regular to see young talent...so I know plenty about what goes on at one, heck I was just at the one down here...I know what goes on at combines, but the situation that they are in is so scripted and pure fundamentals, it is very difficult judging a player with it. I remember Marques Colston dropping balls during the drills, and yeah...he still went into the 7th round, but he has played in the NFL like he did at Hofstra (if not better) and during the All-Star game circuit.


If you think the combine is overrated your seriously mistaken, why in the world are countless scouts, gm's and personell in attendance every year for an overrated event? Guess they were just on vacation using up spare time...There is ALOT more to a combine other then what we talk about here, its far from an overrated event, without it teams would be drafting alot more bust, alot earlier in the draft, all because "they looked good in film".

Just another event in the scouting process. It is the place where personnel guys can sit down in one place and talk and look at 4892149824 players in one sitting so they don't have to use money to travel around the country for pro days. GM's and coaches get more out of it than scouts, scouts have already seen these guys in bulk.

I am not saying it is irrelevant, but it is overrated. Many draftniks and fans use it as the be all for a guys draft grade/stock, and that isn't true in the least. Film/self evaluation is the #1 criteria, IMO, All-Star/Bowl games come in at #2, then the combine, then in a distant fourth are pro days. In there you also have scouting trips that also take in to account how a player practices, and all that jazz.

With or without the combine, teams draft busts. You see draft busts that were poor at the combine, you see draft busts that were workout warriors, you see draft successes that disappointed at the combine and you see draft successes that were incredible during the combine. With or without it, the batting % would be about the same, you might actually see a few less busts.

I do however think, you don't quite know how to eval the film you see...because you actually do take into consideration all of those knocks you mentioned earlier (scheme, opposing talent, talent on team, etc) when breaking it down to begin with and you don't need to see a player running routes in the dome to know that he is a good or bad route runner.

While 40 times are also overrated, for skill position players outside of QB they can be useful, although there are variables to take into consideration (Manningham's poor run was a result of poor technique and 40 mechanics than just his foot speed). Seeing them in drills is great...but scouts see these guys in drills throughout their college careers when they make campus visits, so again, I don't see how this is that big of a deal.

Larry121283
04-14-2008, 01:51 PM
Everybody seems to be "sleeping" on Andre Caldwell and Will Franklin. I hope the Bears land 1 of these guys.
Is Andre Caldwell deemed a sleeper, still?

Don Vito
04-14-2008, 01:52 PM
I think Adarius Bowman can be considered a sleeper now, and he is still one of my favorite WR prospects in this class. He is very physical and if he fully recovers from his injury I think he can be a big time playmaker in the NFL. Is like a slower Boldin, he is like a RB after the catch. I see him as a pure WR; not a TE, FB, or H-Back.

DJ Hall is a very smooth receiver. He doesn't have mind blowing measurbale but he can get open and has good hands. He was very productive in the SEC, too. I think Hall has the potential to be a solid #2 option in the NFL.

Mario Urrutia came out one year too early, with a good year next season he could have maybe had a shot at the first round. He is huge at 6-5 230 and is a very smooth receiver with good hands. He can at least be a great player in the red zone, but I think he will be a solid NFL WR.

lod01
04-14-2008, 02:00 PM
I think Adarius Bowman can be considered a sleeper now, and he is still one of my favorite WR prospects in this class. He is very physical and if he fully recovers from his injury I think he can be a big time playmaker in the NFL. Is like a slower Boldin, he is like a RB after the catch. I see him as a pure WR; not a TE, FB, or H-Back.


Yep, but only because that is one of the effects of smoking weed. He's a total bum.

Skibow
04-14-2008, 02:02 PM
Is Andre Caldwell deemed a sleeper, still?

Sure seems like it. Most sources I come across have Caldwell as the 5th or 6th WR at the earliest (NFLDC has him 8th). I think he's a solid top 40 prospect.

I also agree with Mr. Stiller about Micah Rucker as a true sleeper.

Larry121283
04-14-2008, 02:12 PM
Micah Rucker played overly well against DRC this past year too. Caught two big TDs on him, one being the go-ahead score in the fourth quarter, as well as the first touchdown in the first quarter.

He is intriguing, I'll give you that.

StaticGator
04-14-2008, 03:04 PM
Keenan Burton

Sigmund Bloom
04-14-2008, 03:16 PM
Great subject. We tried to cover some of our favorites on Draftguys TV - which is also part of the NFLDC profile pages:

Paul Hubbard - Wisconsin - Size/Speed freak, but raw
http://www.onnetworks.com/videos/draftguys-tv/profile---paul-hubbard---wr?autoplay=true

Marcus Henry - Kansas - Big frame WR who was a late bloomer
http://www.onnetworks.com/videos/draftguys-tv/profile---marcus-henry---wr?autoplay=true

Jerome Simpson - Coastal Carolina - already been discussed at length
http://www.onnetworks.com/videos/draftguys-tv/profile---jerome-simpson---wr?autoplay=true

Steve Johnson - Kentucky - CLUTCH
http://www.onnetworks.com/videos/draftguys-tv/profile---steve-johnson---wr?autoplay=true

Dexter Jackson - App St - Discussed at Length
http://www.onnetworks.com/videos/draftguys-tv/profile---dexter-jackson---wr?autoplay=true

We also have pieces on Robert Jordan (Cal), Jason Rivers (Hawaii), JayMar Johnson (Jackson St), Lance Leggett (Miami), Danny Amendola (Texas Tech) - who we like to make more noise than many expect them to at the next level, but they don't have the upside of Hubbard, Henry, Simpson, Stevie, and Dexter.

Sigmund Bloom
04-14-2008, 03:46 PM
I also think Darius Reynaud is not far off guys like Eddie Royal and Dexter for a speed WR, and he's hardnosed in the mold of Steve Smith.

nfrillman
04-14-2008, 03:50 PM
This question is easy, two words............The Helicopter

That's William Franklin for those of you not in the know.

LonghornsLegend
04-14-2008, 04:10 PM
Sure seems like it. Most sources I come across have Caldwell as the 5th or 6th WR at the earliest (NFLDC has him 8th). I think he's a solid top 40 prospect.

I also agree with Mr. Stiller about Micah Rucker as a true sleeper.

Caldwell is going in round 2, thats hardly a sleeper, especially since he is highly touted, went to a big school, and everyone knows who he is.

TheGreatEscape
04-14-2008, 04:25 PM
I think Adrian Arrington and James Hardyare going to be very successful in the right situation and Kelly will be a beast if his knees hold up.

AtariBigby
04-15-2008, 08:40 AM
My personal favorite is Steve Johnson from Kentucky. The guy just seemed to make a lot of huge plays for the Wildcats, and made Andre Woodson look better than he is.

But I like Keenan Burton too.

A year 1/2 ago, who would have thought that those 2 Kentucky WR's would go higher than the two Louisville WR's Uruttia and Douglass..... which duo was better in actuality?
So hard to judge & project WR's to the next level, because so much of their destiny is determined by their brain and heart, which we can't accurately measure.

DiG
04-15-2008, 09:58 AM
this thread pretty much defines why i dont want the skins to draft a wr in rd 1 or even rd 2 for that matter. if we decide to draft a wr i hope that it is with one of our two 3rd round picks, preferably the later one. there are so many guys at wr that are going to go in the late 3rd to mid 5th range that i feel have just as much upside as the guys that will probably go in rd 1/2. just like ataribigby said the future of these guys is going to depend on the system they get into and their desire to succeed. wr is probably one of the hardest positions to get right when drafting. they have to really be able to establish a relationship with the teams qb. with that being said theres a pretty good list of guys that i personally like in that "sleeper" role and think could do well in the right system. some of these guys id like to see the skins look at drafting but some of them even though i like i dont think they fit well in dc and hope we take a pass.

- Jordy Nelson
- Adrian Arrington
- Will Franklin
- Keenan Burton
- Eddie Royal
- Paul Hubbard

I like a few other guys but those ones the most probably.

407Niner
04-15-2008, 03:37 PM
Washington WR Marcel Reese
Utah State WR Kevin Robinson

Staubach12
04-15-2008, 04:22 PM
Earl Bennett is a very underrated prospect. I've seen him several times in person, and he's a fantastic player. He'll be a hell of a WR for somebody.

akvikefan89
04-15-2008, 04:55 PM
Not sure if he will go in round three or later but the first guy that came to mind was Jerome Simpson.

Same here.

AtariBigby
04-15-2008, 06:40 PM
This has been a great thread. Who's banging my rep points?
How many jealous Viking & Bare fans are there in here anyway my goodness!

Anyway, this thread will be good to go back and check out a few years from now and see who hit it and missed it. Of course a lot will depend on which team the guys go to, but someone like Braylon Edwards and Larry Fitzgerald went to horrible teams yet were able to become great WR's.

Now, for simple sake, let's try it the stock method.
If I had to do it at their current stock prices, here's how I'd spend my $10,000:

I'm basing it off of Scott's WR rankings here, with the higher ranked WRs more expensive of course, and the lower ones cheaper. Here are my 4-picks for guys Scott has ranked as late round picks or free agents, who I think will pay dividends somewhere down the road! http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/rankings/wr.html

2500 shares of (#32) Steven Johnson at $2.00/share ($5000 invested)
2000 shares of (#38) Marcus Henry at $1.50/share ($3000)
4000 shares of (#62) Ernie Wheelright at $0.25/share ($1000)
4000 shares of (#63) Cameron Colvin at $0.25/share ($1000)

I would call the typical #3 WR on any team worth about $3/share, and a typical starter about $4/share. A teams #1 WR would be anywhere from $5/share for a bad #1 WR to $25/share for a great one like the Pro Bowl caliber players. So pricing Johnson at $2/share is actually probably a bit high for Scott's 32nd ranked WR of this class..... but I'm confident enough he or Henry, or one of my long-shots will pay dividends. Just making the team puts a WR at $2.50 a share.
ON RECORD

Dr. Gonzo
04-15-2008, 06:55 PM
That makes no sense. Are you saying you would clone these guys and buy them numerous times?

WCH
04-15-2008, 07:43 PM
Maurice Purify
Keenan Burton
Jerome Simpson
Adarius Bowman
(if he continues falling) Mario Manningham. ;)

AtariBigby
04-16-2008, 09:33 PM
That makes no sense. Are you saying you would clone these guys and buy them numerous times?

You'll have to take some more business classes.......
If I had to spend my money on some longshots, those would be the guys.

A lot of people are buying Jerome Simpson, but he'd be about $3/share because he's rated higher.

edgrenade
04-16-2008, 09:38 PM
I would say Andre Caldwell, Adrian Arrington, and Jerome Simpson.

BBIB
04-18-2008, 10:14 PM
Darius Reynaud.

Considered best athlete on a team that had Pat White, Steve Slaton, and Noel Devine.


Kid has sick vert and hands. But limited, I mean limited chance to showcase his abilities because of WVU's run first, run 2nd, think about passing but probably run third, offense.

LonghornsLegend
04-18-2008, 10:26 PM
Darius Reynaud.

Considered best athlete on a team that had Pat White, Steve Slaton, and Noel Devine.


Kid has sick vert and hands. But limited, I mean limited chance to showcase his abilities because of WVU's run first, run 2nd, think about passing but probably run third, offense.


He is another sleeper of mine, really believe he is going to end up a solid pro, no one talks about him, but I expect him to surprise alot of people.

pellepelle_10
04-19-2008, 02:29 AM
William Franklin
Marcus Monk
Earl Bennett
D.J. Hall <-- if you really want to call him a sleeper..he's been doing his job in college already.

AtariBigby
04-19-2008, 09:56 AM
Two years ago everyone had Marcus Monk penciled in as a first round pick..... I agree he's a steal for a round 3, 4, 5 WR now for sure.....

I like Reynaud too.
DJ Hall, Franklin.... tons of great athletes but a lot depends on their work ethic and intelligence, and what team they go to.