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View Full Version : Michael Crabtree: Phenom, or Product-of-the-System?


AtariBigby
04-14-2008, 12:14 AM
Who's seen enough of #5 to tell me if he's a premiere talent like a Larry Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson, or if he's just a product of the pass-happy system like a ? Jerry Rice was at Mississippi Valley State.....

He redshirted a season right? So this could be his last season at TT.

Someone at Tech break down Crab for me if you can..... anyone up there in Lubbock?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1105/1393733956_49aa96a1fc.jpg?v=0

LonghornsLegend
04-14-2008, 12:18 AM
This is going to be an AWESOME debate when he comes out, I can already see it now...


But Ive seen plenty of him being that he came from Dallas, but its hard to gauge because he was a high school QB at Carter and was pretty much a beast...You could tell he was a physical freak and could do it all, but I didnt expect him to have the type of season he did after a redshirt year to adjust to WR...If you watch him closely you can tell he's not just the system, his explosiveness is ridiculous, he has great hands, can seperate from anyone, pretty much an all around beast and I cant wait for him to come out.


He was pretty highly touted coming out, Texas, OU, and A&M also wanted him, and he was a great basketball player too and had a choice to take a scholarship in both sports, which all in all should speak volumes about his ability.

AtariBigby
04-14-2008, 12:28 AM
Thanks.
If he's a great basketball player, that only helps. Great leaping and timing is huge in the NFL.

I live in Dallas, but never get to see many TT games for some reason. I'll try this year more.......
All I remember of Crabtree is the game he caught a bunch, but then dropped a big one at the end in the end zone.

What NFL WR's does he somewhat play like, size-speed-style?

DragonFireKai
04-14-2008, 12:34 AM
From what I've seen from him, he plays a lot like Keyshawn Johnson. He leans towards the possesion aspect of the game, and will be a great red zone threat.

Solomon
04-14-2008, 12:35 AM
I think he is the real deal but his system does make it difficult to evaluate him against other receivers who play in alternate systems (at least until he works out for scouts with the microscope on him). He's got nice size, is a very smooth athlete and as a freshman produced more than any other TT receiver in history. Some people like to use the argument that Tech's Offense has led to big years from mediocre draft prospects like Jarret Hicks, Joel Filani, Wes Welker and Danny Amendola and that despite his stats Crabtree is just the last in a long line of below average Tech WR prospects. However they don't take into account the fact that his natural ability made him a top prospect out of HS and that as good as the other WRs numbers were they weren't at the ridiculous level of Crabtree's.

It'll be interesting to see how high he is touted when he comes out but for the record I will say right now that in my opinion the best underclassmen WR is junior Kenny Britt of Rutgers.

LonghornsLegend
04-14-2008, 07:36 AM
From what I've seen from him, he plays a lot like Keyshawn Johnson. He leans towards the possesion aspect of the game, and will be a great red zone threat.

I think he's the exact opposite of possesion WR, he's 6'3 200 and Chris Henry comes to mind, but Crabtree is better is open space and has better acceleration...Granted he is in a system that makes him impossible to judge by stats because he will have games where he gets 15 receptions, 240 yds, and 3 tds, something that rarely happens in a pro style offense...


But he's a real explosive guy, I would be surprised if he didnt run a low 4.4 40, he humiliated secondary after secondary with his speed after the catch and with his lateral quickness, he looked a step faster then everyone last year which was pretty amazing in itself being that he was playing a new position at the D-1 level.

AtariBigby
04-14-2008, 07:57 AM
The Wes Welker-effect has to help his stock a little bit, if his record-setting stats don't do it.

etk
04-14-2008, 08:37 AM
There is really no debate...Crabtree actually has the ability to separate that other TT receivers lacked. He will be a dominant #1 in the NFL.

bobindallas
04-14-2008, 09:51 AM
If I could imagine Barry Sanders as a WR -- it is Crabtree.

The separation, lateral quickness, runs like Tail Back in the open field.

Frankly, other than CJ I have not seen anyone near as dominant in a long time as a college WR and in fact I think he comes in and plays much faster than most rookie NFL WR.

He is just flat out dominant.

ATLDirtyBirds
04-14-2008, 09:54 AM
There is really no debate...Crabtree actually has the ability to separate that other TT receivers lacked. He will be a dominant #1 in the NFL.

Bingo. You nailed it. Crabtree is for real.

Brent
04-14-2008, 10:29 AM
Can I say that it's a little of both? I think his numbers are a product of the system but his talent, from what we've seen so far, is that he could be very good WR. I think that having all those passes thrown his way will just give him a lot of experience and create a lot of game film on him, which, I would think, makes him easier to evaluate.

BeerBaron
04-14-2008, 10:45 AM
i love watching TT and try and find them every week if theyre on TV. (not often but i like seeing them when i can. they are fun to watch when their offense is on)

but i saw 3 games of theirs last year and while crabtree had his moments, danny amendola always seemed to be the guy making the critical catches and moving the chains when needed.

maybe he was just benefiting from crabtree's pretense...idk, but ill be interested to see what crabtree does without amendola there. if another little no name WR steps up in crabtrees shadow, then maybe its crabtree opening things up for everyone else. if not and crabtree regresses.....ill be sad but also, it might deliver a blow to how he's viewed with pro potential.

itll be interesting to see...im really hoping crabtree is the real deal

mat33
04-14-2008, 10:48 AM
Had I not seen him multiple times, and knowing what TT tends to produce I would have said product of the system. But I saw 4 games this year, and this guy is the real deal, he is one of the most impressive athletes and has great hands, and ran surprisingly decent routes.

draftguru151
04-14-2008, 01:15 PM
His numbers are definitely inflated because of the system, but he is an amazing player. Anquan Boldin-esque physicality, great hands and can run away from people. There are definitely going to be questions when he comes out, but he is an amazing talent.

volman88
04-14-2008, 01:20 PM
I'm one year too late. I'll be there next year so this time next year i will fill you guys in.

Flyboy
04-14-2008, 01:30 PM
I'm one year too late. I'll be there next year so this time next year i will fill you guys in.

It's funny. The year after I move from Lubbock and decide not to go to TTU anymore they get a fantastic NFL prospect. Great.

LonghornsLegend
04-14-2008, 01:32 PM
i love watching TT and try and find them every week if theyre on TV. (not often but i like seeing them when i can. they are fun to watch when their offense is on)

but i saw 3 games of theirs last year and while crabtree had his moments, danny amendola always seemed to be the guy making the critical catches and moving the chains when needed.

maybe he was just benefiting from crabtree's pretense...idk, but ill be interested to see what crabtree does without amendola there. if another little no name WR steps up in crabtrees shadow, then maybe its crabtree opening things up for everyone else. if not and crabtree regresses.....ill be sad but also, it might deliver a blow to how he's viewed with pro potential.

itll be interesting to see...im really hoping crabtree is the real deal



Tech will always find someone to catch the ball, the way they recruit their WR's they may not always be NFL caliber talent, but they will find guys like Wes Welker, guys who have great hands, run good routes, can find the soft spot in the defense, somebody will step up because they are throwing for 500 on a regular basis...So with that being said yes Crabtree's numbers will be seriously inflated, there is no other explanation for catching over 15 balls, going over 300 yds and 3 scores in one game, and I dont think its out of the question to see him hit 2,000 receiving yards.


Its tough to double anyone for Tech, you almost have to play a zone and shade towards the best player, if you try to man everyone up somebody will beat you, they are lining up 5 WRs at least, most teams arent lining up 5 CB's so they do a good job of creating mis matches.


I believe he comes out after one more year and it should be fun to see him stack up to other WR's, I dont want to say he's a top 10 pick because he will have to go through the process, but he has too much explosiveness, you can see when he catches the ball, he hits top end speed so quick.


He's gonna be a dark horse to win the Heisman because his numbers could be astronomical for a WR, Tech hasnt had a Wr of his ability since Leach was there...Tech is probably gonna beat us this year sadly.

LonghornsLegend
04-14-2008, 01:32 PM
It's funny. The year after I move from Lubbock and decide not to go to TTU anymore they get a fantastic NFL prospect. Great.

great parties out there huh? I was there for a semester, nothing much to do in Lubbock but drink and party.

Flyboy
04-14-2008, 01:33 PM
great parties out there huh? I was there for a semester, nothing much to do in Lubbock but drink and party.

And considering that I don't drink OR party, there ain't a goddamn thing to do.

LonghornsLegend
04-14-2008, 01:40 PM
And considering that I don't drink OR party, there ain't a goddamn thing to do.

Well you made the right decision leaving, if you dont do either of those 2, its almost like going to a desert that has a few stores...Also pretty racist out there, wasnt my cup of tea.

Flyboy
04-14-2008, 01:46 PM
Well you made the right decision leaving, if you dont do either of those 2, its almost like going to a desert that has a few stores...Also pretty racist out there, wasnt my cup of tea.

Try living there the first nineteen years of your life. But, still, it'll always be home.

Woody56
04-14-2008, 04:13 PM
His numbers wouldn't look as if he was playing for Texas AM, but he is still a great talent and will most likely be a top 10 pick.

neko4
04-14-2008, 06:03 PM
Sorry to get off topic (BTW I love Crabtree!) but
A) Will Graham Harrell get the Colt Brennan treatment? I dont think he can be quite as good, but I only a couple games.
B) What is the difference between Tech's pass happy system and Hawaii's. Is Tech's more downfield?

holt_bruce81
04-14-2008, 06:23 PM
A little of both, he is a good athlete but he's not as good as his numbers suggest. If you hit him a few times, he struggles and won't go over the middle.

RedVision
04-14-2008, 07:26 PM
Am I the only one who think he should stay in school for 2 or 3 more year to get ALL the D-1 receiving records? Being the best college WR ever should be worth something isn't it?

etk
04-14-2008, 07:27 PM
Am I the only one who think he should stay in school for 2 or 3 more year to get ALL the D-1 receiving records? Being the best college WR ever should be worth something isn't it?

It doesn't directly make you any money, so no. It's not worth the risk of injury.

RedVision
04-14-2008, 08:17 PM
It doesn't directly make you any money, so no. It's not worth the risk of injury.

Of course when you have millions in your future you don't want to risk it. But I do miss the time when pros where playing for the honor, the glory and the titles, not only as some complimentary bonus to the big payday...

BufFan71
04-14-2008, 08:19 PM
I think he's the exact opposite of possesion WR, he's 6'3 200 and Chris Henry comes to mind, but Crabtree is better is open space and has better acceleration...Granted he is in a system that makes him impossible to judge by stats because he will have games where he gets 15 receptions, 240 yds, and 3 tds, something that rarely happens in a pro style offense...


But he's a real explosive guy, I would be surprised if he didnt run a low 4.4 40, he humiliated secondary after secondary with his speed after the catch and with his lateral quickness, he looked a step faster then everyone last year which was pretty amazing in itself being that he was playing a new position at the D-1 level.



not Colorado



edit: i take that back

DChess
04-14-2008, 08:27 PM
ill say more of the real deal than product of the system but you cant give him all the credit for those gaudy ass numbers he put up. do i think he'll have a career simialr to the one of troy edwards, no. but i dont think he is a cant miss product, more of a late teen selection and maybe if he tests well right around the ten. i like him to put up crazy numbers again this year, not the same but still pretty crazy. i wonder if he will declare as a soph (rs).

volman88
04-14-2008, 11:58 PM
great parties out there huh? I was there for a semester, nothing much to do in Lubbock but drink and party.

Sounds like the perfect place for me then, did you go there your freshmen year?

LonghornsLegend
04-15-2008, 12:26 AM
Sounds like the perfect place for me then, did you go there your freshmen year?

No but alot of my friends did out of HS so when I was working I stayed with them at their off campus apartment, so I got all the benefits of the school...Its alot of fine a** women that love to drink and have sex, every party has alot of alcohol, and its party after party all the time every day...Its up their in party schools.



But back on topic, Id be willing to bet money he declares, of course I dont know because I dont talk to him, but if I had to guess judging from where he goes to school, he's gone after this year...Its not like he's staying for a ring or Big 12 championship, it wont be anymore records because he's going to be up there in stats after this year, his stock is going to be really high, and Tech isnt the type of school with tradition like that...He went there because he would get the ball alot and he would be a star, when he made the decision to go to Tech it was probably for pro reasons.

SenorGato
04-15-2008, 03:32 AM
Thanks.
If he's a great basketball player, that only helps. Great leaping and timing is huge in the NFL.

I live in Dallas, but never get to see many TT games for some reason. I'll try this year more.......
All I remember of Crabtree is the game he caught a bunch, but then dropped a big one at the end in the end zone.

What NFL WR's does he somewhat play like, size-speed-style?

First name that came to me when I saw him was Andre Johnson.

He's not as physically sick as AJ is, but he's got that kind of potential. He's got alot of room to bulk up on his frame and keep his speed.

keylime_5
04-15-2008, 09:32 AM
I've seen him beat good corners in man-to-man coverage. He might not be a 2000 yard player at any other school, but I think he's a mid to late first round type of guy. His straight line speed is probably only around 4.5-4.6 but he's not a speed guy anyways, he's a big receiver who makes the big catch.

thebow305
04-15-2008, 10:52 AM
His numbers are definitely inflated because of the system, but he is an amazing player. Anquan Boldin-esque physicality, great hands and can run away from people. There are definitely going to be questions when he comes out, but he is an amazing talent.

That seems to be a pretty good comparison, Crab may be a little faster than Quan though.

thebow305
04-15-2008, 10:54 AM
First name that came to me when I saw him was Andre Johnson.

He's not as physically sick as AJ is, but he's got that kind of potential. He's got alot of room to bulk up on his frame and keep his speed.

This seems to be the best comparison thus far. I am going to be all over this guy if he comes out next year, just a heads up for everyone! :D

volman88
04-15-2008, 12:31 PM
No but alot of my friends did out of HS so when I was working I stayed with them at their off campus apartment, so I got all the benefits of the school...Its alot of fine a** women that love to drink and have sex, every party has alot of alcohol, and its party after party all the time every day...Its up their in party schools.



But back on topic, Id be willing to bet money he declares, of course I dont know because I dont talk to him, but if I had to guess judging from where he goes to school, he's gone after this year...Its not like he's staying for a ring or Big 12 championship, it wont be anymore records because he's going to be up there in stats after this year, his stock is going to be really high, and Tech isnt the type of school with tradition like that...He went there because he would get the ball alot and he would be a star, when he made the decision to go to Tech it was probably for pro reasons.

Thats what I like to hear

LonghornsLegend
04-15-2008, 12:57 PM
I see a more explosive Chris Henry, he's definately faster then 4.6, im thinking mid 4.4, but his short shuttle is whats going to be so impressive...I dont like the Boldin comparisons because their playing styles are too different.

jbeans187
04-15-2008, 01:45 PM
If Wes Welker and T.O. had a kid it would be Crabtree. I have a feeling barring injury he is gone after this year

etk
04-15-2008, 02:32 PM
First name that came to me when I saw him was Andre Johnson.

He's not as physically sick as AJ is, but he's got that kind of potential. He's got alot of room to bulk up on his frame and keep his speed.

Yep...Andre Johnson, Braylon Edwards.

Menardo75
04-16-2008, 04:01 PM
Crabtree is from real i am an Oklahoma fan and i watched him a couple times just leave our best guys on slants. He has great hands and is very explosive. He looks like a first round pick to me

AtariBigby
05-07-2008, 07:02 PM
With stats like that, and a first round grade, he's outta there for sure after this season. Time to cash in, don't risk a Michael Bush injury.

But I hope they put Tech on TV more this year because even here in Dallas, I barely got to see him last year....... I sure hope he's faster than a 4.6 though as someone mentioned.

thetedginnshow
05-07-2008, 07:04 PM
Phenom doesn't even begin to describe it. He's more T.O. than Boldin though IMO. He's got a little more flash to his game and not quite the same nastiness that Boldin has.

CARDIAC CAT 7
05-07-2008, 07:06 PM
Crank That Crabtree: http://youtube.com/watch?v=bwyEdC7a4y0
best remix ever!!!

Ozzy
05-08-2008, 11:29 AM
I do not believe Crabtree is a product of the system, he is just too physically gifted at running after the catch, catching the ball in the air and using his big body in traffic.

However I must say the only team he played all last season with good to above average DB's was Oklahoma, Texas A&M have ok DB's but not great. All the other teams do not have very deep or talented DB's overall.

Would love to see Crabtree go up against a top notch defense with top notch CB's.

The QB on Texas Tech is a product of their system, Crabtree is not and I see no reason why he would not be the top WR in the sophomore class. This next year will tell a lot about him however.

Iamcanadian
05-08-2008, 12:05 PM
If he can run a 4.40 40, he'll go very high in the draft, even a 4.50 could get him into round 1 but if he's slower than that then he'll slide way down.

LonghornsLegend
05-08-2008, 12:17 PM
However I must say the only team he played all last season with good to above average DB's was Oklahoma, Texas A&M have ok DB's but not great. All the other teams do not have very deep or talented DB's overall.

Would love to see Crabtree go up against a top notch defense with top notch CB's.

You still wouldn't get the answer your looking for, because of the system Tech runs...They have so many WR's on the field at once, and so many quick routes underneath, its very hard for the opposing defense to play man to man, usually most defenses have to play zone, because I've seen Tech pick man to man apart, they will just throw to the 5th WR on the inside all game long and it will be wide open, you have to play zone to keep the defense facing the QB...So usually you will see alot of zone shaded towards Crabtree, or man over top with safety shading his way, very rare will we see him go up vs a CB one on one in man coverage.


Also the not good DB's argument I don't think is all that valid in his case, he is a converted QB, first year playing WR, the way he tore almost every defense a new one I would say is the tell tale sign, those DB's in the Big 12 have been playing corner longer then he has been playing Wr, he's only been learning that positions two years, his ceiling is incredibly high for how good he COULD end up because he hasn't even played his best football yet.

Ozzy
05-08-2008, 02:43 PM
Yeah it will be interesting to see just how far Crabtree goes. His ability to make plays after the catch is what is most interesting about him and why I wish I could see him play against better DB's. DB's that can cover better and tackle better. He does great things after the catch, if he just caught the ball and went down right away, since he goes to Texas Tech I would just write him off like most of their other offensive prospects....

He does have physical gifts though, that is obvious.

farfromforgotten
05-08-2008, 04:56 PM
Who's seen enough of #5 to tell me if he's a premiere talent like a Larry Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson, or if he's just a product of the pass-happy system like a ? Jerry Rice was at Mississippi Valley State.....

Maybe you wrote that wrong or maybe I am reading it wrong but wouldnt Jerry Rice be considered a "premiere talent" and not a product of the system since he went on to have an amazing NFL career? I think you should put someone like Troy Edwards as a WR who was just a product of the system.

Anyways, I think that Crabtree has the ability to be a star in the NFL.

suposed2bsweated
05-10-2008, 02:00 AM
He reminds me of peter warrick(bigger of course).. has nice wiggle and shiftiness to his game, especially for a taller receiver..
I dont think he has elite top speed or long speed, but looks and plays faster because he reaches his top speed very quickly & isnt stiff like alot of wr's

Dam8610
05-10-2008, 03:48 AM
Who's seen enough of #5 to tell me if he's a premiere talent like a Larry Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson, or if he's just a product of the pass-happy system like a ? Jerry Rice was at Mississippi Valley State.....

He redshirted a season right? So this could be his last season at TT.

Someone at Tech break down Crab for me if you can..... anyone up there in Lubbock?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1105/1393733956_49aa96a1fc.jpg?v=0

Did you just say Jerry Rice was a product of a system? For even suggesting that, you fail at life.

bendert58
05-10-2008, 01:19 PM
I havent seen nearly enough of him as I'm a Big Ten guy but for him to have such ridiculous numbers so early in his career he must be more than simply a "product of the system" otherwise there would have been someone else before him to put up these numbers. He also probably benefits because Graham Harrell is a better QB than the other TTU QB's that have come before him like Kingsbury.

TTURedRaider
05-13-2008, 04:00 AM
I go to TTU. I've seen him in games and in practice. Sorry this might be long...

He's not the fastest guy at around 4.4-4.5 40. However the thing he does have going for him is he accelerates quickly from a dead stop. Which helps him get a good release at the start of a play and help him change direction during it.

He has great hips to maneuver for catches and make guys miss. I've heard the other TTU WRs discussing this very thing saying how they would fall down making some catches he's able to excelerate out of and his ability to tip toe on sidelines.

He's not all that big yet he can be physical when he wants to be. He's a competitor. I've seen our DBs talk smack to him in practice and he responded by juking people so bad they fall down. Just motivates him to play better.

As far as comparisons to other WRs I'll leave that to yall. He's not a burner. Yet the play he's most known for here is the bubble screen. Which plays to his strengths by getting him into space allowing him to decide where to go with his ability to accelerate and setup blocks. Pretty much money for about 20-40 yard gain everytime. However he's also very good at catching the fade.

Regarding other topics in the thread...

TTU's offense
Someone asked earlier how our offense is different from Hawaii's. I believe Leach said once it was that Hawaii's runs more vertical stems while Tech runs more horizontal stems. I might have that reversed though. TTU basically runs the Spread Offense with Run and Shoot formations using the philosophy of the West Coast Offense.

Graham Harrell
He's not solely a product of the system. He set the HS records for passing in the state of Texas before coming to Tech. He was a highly touted prospect out of HS and is a coach's son. If you compare his stats vs other people you can note some of the differences. He has a very high completion percentage, low int percentage, and high QB rating. Better than previous Tech QBs under Leach and guys like say Chase Daniel.

RedRaider427
05-13-2008, 05:38 PM
Well, TTURedRaider covered some of it, but I'll offer some more thoughts as a diehard Texas Tech fan.

I'm expecting Crabtree to post a 40-yard-dash time right at 4.5 flat consistently. (I think the 40 is a stupid way to measure speed, but that's another topic.) Crabtree's biggest asset is his balance and body control. It's extremely rare for guys his size to be as agile as he is. He's a freak of an athlete in that regard. There were so many times this year when he was tiptoeing the lines and leaning laterally in ways that guys with a frame that large are usually incapable of doing.

Michael is just an explosive player. Anytime he touches the ball, he's a legitimate threat to take it the distance. As some have mentioned, he's phenomenal in space. His cuts and spin moves are very quick and effective, which is what enabled him to make so many people miss and get all that YAC to put up those ridiculous numbers last year. While we all wish he would stay, he's very likely to turn pro after next year, and he'll be a top 5 pick if he keeps up his current pace.

NFL-wise, I'd say he's most comparable to Larry Fitzgerald. He's got that same kind of playmaking potential. I'd further argue that no one else aside from maybe Fitzgerald has been this good of a WR this early in their collegiate career in a very long time. Many people will discount his numbers to the system, but he's already proven to be a special talent. It's not like Filani/Hicks were putting up 1,900+ yard, 20+ TD seasons. Crabtree earned those numbers with what he does after the catch.

Addressing some of the other thoughts in this thread:

but i saw 3 games of theirs last year and while crabtree had his moments, danny amendola always seemed to be the guy making the critical catches and moving the chains when needed.

maybe he was just benefiting from crabtree's pretense...idk, but ill be interested to see what crabtree does without amendola there. if another little no name WR steps up in crabtrees shadow, then maybe its crabtree opening things up for everyone else. if not and crabtree regresses.....ill be sad but also, it might deliver a blow to how he's viewed with pro potential.

Danny was a good possession receiver for us, but he's no Welker and certainly no Crabtree. The way our offense is designed, the ball is generally going to go to the inside receivers with the best hands when we have to convert. It's true that Crabtree/Amendola benefited from each other akin to Moss/Welker for the Patriots, but Crabtree will be just fine without Amendola. Eric Morris will likely take over the security blanket role, but Detron Lewis is going to surprise some teams with what he can do. I don't expect to have another 1,000 yard receiver in addition to Crabtree like Danny last year, but that's because we're going to be able to spread the ball around even more. Having a multitude of weapons and using them effectively all at once doesn't make each individual player any worse, it just makes the collective effort better.

great parties out there huh? I was there for a semester, nothing much to do in Lubbock but drink and party.

And considering that I don't drink OR party, there ain't a goddamn thing to do.

Well you made the right decision leaving, if you dont do either of those 2, its almost like going to a desert that has a few stores...Also pretty racist out there, wasnt my cup of tea.

No but alot of my friends did out of HS so when I was working I stayed with them at their off campus apartment, so I got all the benefits of the school...Its alot of fine a** women that love to drink and have sex, every party has alot of alcohol, and its party after party all the time every day...Its up their in party schools.

Please don't start with this ignorant stereotyping. I don't go around claiming that UT is full of arrogant homosexual liberals just because some are. Yes, there is the party crowd at Tech, just as there is that crowd at any school. I'm not much of a drinker, partier, fornicator, or racist, and I loved every second of my four years at Tech. Maybe I just chose the right people to hang out with.

Its not like he's staying for a ring or Big 12 championship, it wont be anymore records because he's going to be up there in stats after this year, his stock is going to be really high, and Tech isnt the type of school with tradition like that...

Does this board have a roll eyes emoticon? I don't think Crabtree believes a Big 12 title/BCS game is out of reach, and considering the strength of this year's team, I fail to see why he should.

He went there because he would get the ball alot and he would be a star, when he made the decision to go to Tech it was probably for pro reasons.

Yeah, there's no way he could have liked the coaches, team, school, or fans. He was obviously only interested in TTU as a stepping stone university for the pros, considering we've had a whole two WR's drafted since nobody ever credits the offensive system for WR production.

But I hope they put Tech on TV more this year because even here in Dallas, I barely got to see him last year

Look harder. We had nine games televised last season, and that's not counting the Iowa State game which has been replayed several times.

However I must say the only team he played all last season with good to above average DB's was Oklahoma, Texas A&M have ok DB's but not great. All the other teams do not have very deep or talented DB's overall.

Would love to see Crabtree go up against a top notch defense with top notch CB's.

I'd say Terrence Wheatley was a top notch CB since he went in the second round of the draft. Crabtree put up 131 yards, 12 catches, and a TD against him. Reggie Smith of OU is also generally considered to be a very good DB and future pro prospect, and Crabtree went for 154 yards, 12 catches, and a TD against him. The same could be said of UT's Deon Beasley, against whom Crabtree went for 195 yards, 9 catches, and 2 TDs. He's done just fine against good defenders.

The QB on Texas Tech is a product of their system, Crabtree is not and I see no reason why he would not be the top WR in the sophomore class. This next year will tell a lot about him however.

Sorry to get off topic (BTW I love Crabtree!) but
A) Will Graham Harrell get the Colt Brennan treatment? I dont think he can be quite as good, but I only a couple games.
B) What is the difference between Tech's pass happy system and Hawaii's. Is Tech's more downfield?

Harrell is less of a product of the system than any of the QBs before him because he's a more complete player. It's already been mentioned that he holds all kinds of Texas passing records and wasn't some scrub recruit. He's an infinitely better pro prospect than any QB we've had. I don't much much stock into passing yards given our system, but accounting for 52 TDs last year is impressive no matter how you slice it. That puts him right there in Tebow territory, yet Tebow has somehow avoided the system tag because he runs for a TD on 1st and goal, while Harrell throws for a TD in the same situation. I am yet to understand why one method of scoring is more legitimate than the other.

Unfortunately, I expect Harrell to get similar treatment as Brennan, despite being a much better player who performs at an even higher level against infinitely better defenses than Brennan faced. If we lose even one game next year, the critics are going to go apesh*t about how it means Graham was no good all along. As for the TTU/Hawaii comparison, there are quite a few differences in the way our offenses work. Hawaii lines up 5 wide way more than we do, and they don't use the wide OL splits like we do. Furthermore, we use our RB as a receiver more often than they do. The execution of the two offenses is actually quite different, even if they are both pass-first schemes. However, people are going to act like our offense is some gimmick and try to discount the production that's consistently among the best in the nation until we win the toughest division in college football.

someone447
05-23-2008, 08:29 PM
Please don't start with this ignorant stereotyping. I don't go around claiming that UT is full of arrogant homosexual liberals just because some are. Yes, there is the party crowd at Tech, just as there is that crowd at any school. I'm not much of a drinker, partier, fornicator, or racist, and I loved every second of my four years at Tech. Maybe I just chose the right people to hang out with.



Oh come on, the party scene in Lubbock is huge. Plus there isn't a whole lot to do there(not saying it is horrible by any stretch, but it is a college town, not a big city.) It is in TX, there are a TON of racists(I'm from TX and I love it.) Any place can be awesome with the right friends, even El Paso.


Yeah, there's no way he could have liked the coaches, team, school, or fans. He was obviously only interested in TTU as a stepping stone university for the pros, considering we've had a whole two WR's drafted since nobody ever credits the offensive system for WR production.


Those all probably played a role, but when you have the skill set Crabtree does, the system could only help him. Anyone who has a shot at the NFL will go where they think will get them drafted highest.


I am yet to understand why one method of scoring is more legitimate than the other.


It's because Tech throws the ball 80% of the time.

A question for you Tech fans, any word about Eddie Britton? He killed us in high school, and it is always good to hear that someone from El Paso is doing good.

Wootylicous
05-23-2008, 08:41 PM
You love to be racist...? wth....

someone447
05-23-2008, 08:49 PM
You love to be racist...? wth....

No I love TX, even with the incredible amount of racism there.

neko4
05-23-2008, 09:02 PM
Unfortunately, I expect Harrell to get similar treatment as Brennan, despite being a much better player who performs at an even higher level against infinitely better defenses than Brennan faced. If we lose even one game next year, the critics are going to go apesh*t about how it means Graham was no good all along. As for the TTU/Hawaii comparison, there are quite a few differences in the way our offenses work. Hawaii lines up 5 wide way more than we do, and they don't use the wide OL splits like we do. Furthermore, we use our RB as a receiver more often than they do. The execution of the two offenses is actually quite different, even if they are both pass-first schemes. However, people are going to act like our offense is some gimmick and try to discount the production that's consistently among the best in the nation until we win the toughest division in college football.

Ugh, not this again!

Brennan has great talent, for the most part, the rest of the Hawaii Warriors didnt.

someone447
05-23-2008, 09:12 PM
Tech's offense might actually be more QB friendly than the Run and Shoot. The Run and Shoot throws downfield a lot more. Tech's offense is a lot of 4 wide crossing routes, much easier for a high completion percentage. Unfortunately, it is a gimmick offense, but that doesn't mean it isn't the best offense in the nation.

YAYareaRB
05-23-2008, 10:04 PM
Graham Harrell
He's not solely a product of the system. He set the HS records for passing in the state of Texas before coming to Tech. He was a highly touted prospect out of HS and is a coach's son. If you compare his stats vs other people you can note some of the differences. He has a very high completion percentage, low int percentage, and high QB rating. Better than previous Tech QBs under Leach and guys like say Chase Daniel.

let's not get out of hand here. graham's good by to say he's better than chase daniel is a bit much.. wouldn't you say

LonghornsLegend
05-24-2008, 01:42 PM
Please don't start with this ignorant stereotyping. I don't go around claiming that UT is full of arrogant homosexual liberals just because some are. Yes, there is the party crowd at Tech, just as there is that crowd at any school. I'm not much of a drinker, partier, fornicator, or racist, and I loved every second of my four years at Tech. Maybe I just chose the right people to hang out with.



Does this board have a roll eyes emoticon? I don't think Crabtree believes a Big 12 title/BCS game is out of reach, and considering the strength of this year's team, I fail to see why he should. Yeah, there's no way he could have liked the coaches, team, school, or fans. He was obviously only interested in TTU as a stepping stone university for the pros, considering we've had a whole two WR's drafted since nobody ever credits the offensive system for WR production.



I'd say Terrence Wheatley was a top notch CB since he went in the second round of the draft. Crabtree put up 131 yards, 12 catches, and a TD against him. Reggie Smith of OU is also generally considered to be a very good DB and future pro prospect, and Crabtree went for 154 yards, 12 catches, and a TD against him. The same could be said of UT's Deon Beasley, against whom Crabtree went for 195 yards, 9 catches, and 2 TDs. He's done just fine against good defenders.



Ok, lets act like your word is gospel and no one can comment on anything about Tech or Lubbock because you go to school there...I didn't say the entire town is racist, but your naive if you don't think it is very heavy in that area, and its too bad I'm not just talking out of my ass, speaking from experiences I witnessed, and a handful of my classmates witnessed as a large group of us attented Tech...So trust me, your not the only one qualified to make a comment about Lubbock so you can drop the high and mighty stance...Fact is, Tech is a HUGE party school, thats documented, that doesn't mean you can't go to school there and stay away from that crowd(as you said you did) but that doesn't mask the fact that it is what it is...There is nothing else to do out there, and the amount of parties and drinking is incredibly higher then most other universities, this is not just my opinion...It has NOTHING to do with sterotyping, never did I say "If you go to Tech your a racist", so relax and stop acting like I insulted you, personally I liked Tech, but to act like their isn't a high amount of racism going on means you don't know the area or you don't choose to believe it...LOTS of country/small towns in the outskirts of Texas are the exact same way, Lubbock is no different.



As far as your 2nd point, do you know Michael personally? Did he express his feelings to you, because I mean, you did go to school there so that makes you an expert on what the players want to do right? I have been watching him since he was playing QB in HS and saw him in action in the Kimbell/Carter game myself...My point is that the REASON he wanted to go to Tech was because they have a pass happy offense, he gets a chance to make plays and gives him a better shot to go pro...If you want to believe in your fantasy world he chose Tech because of the coaches, education, or the fans you are seriously fooling yourself...Tech was not his only choice, so if he was an advocate of either of those, he would not of chose Tech in the first place...OU and A&M offered him, so did other higher profile schools, but none gives him the chance to be the playmaker Tech would, or give him as many chances, don't think for one minute he didn't know this, and Leach didn't sell him on that...I played WR myself coming out, when you play WR going to places like Hawaii and Tech are for the offense, and opportunity, nothing else...It's not like Lubbock is Austin and its a beautiful city that has so much to offer, its not like the fan base if that of A&M or UT, the education is not on par with those schools either, but at Tech he gets to play sooner and be the primary target...He has no intentions on going back to Tech another year barring an injury, and yes a BCS game or Big XII championship CAN happen, but don't fool yourself into thinking he decided on Tech for those reasons.



Also your stats are a little mis-leading, its very rare that one specific DB is manned up on Crabtree the entire game, you just can't take Crabtree's entire game stats, and say "Well this DB was playing this game so Crabtree put up these numbers versus this guy", put your stats into context if you want people to take you seriously...Crabtree lined up all over the field for one, for two defenses rarely play Tech man to man due to how many WR's line up at once, and people hardly ever guard Crabtree man to man, take a look here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wjNVsj9Jw


I guess it makes sense to count this 60 yd TD score and say he did it on Reggie Smith because he is OU's best defender, so that automatically means Crabtree made this play on him:rolleyes: Crabtree lined up on top, Reggie Smith was on the bottom not even covering him until he had beat half the defense, great play yes, but don't list his entire game stats and say all those were against Smith because you have no idea how many times Smith was covering him man to man, and I can assure you it was very few...Same goes for Wheatley, those teams know better then to play Tech man to man all game...You don't even want me to get into you bringing up a UT defender, and then place Crabtree's entire game stats vs that one guy, when I know or a FACT we do not run man to man vs Tech, never have, and it be pointless to even try...Would it make sense to bring out 6 DB's and play them all man to man? No, guys were playng zone and areas vs Crabtree, there is no way in hell we would want Beasley lined up with Crabtree for that entire game, doesn't even make sense...Your not the only one with knowledge about Tech or Lubbock in general, its one thing to offer up a little added info, but its another to act like if it has to do with your school you are automatically right.

RedRaider427
06-12-2008, 02:15 PM
Oh come on, the party scene in Lubbock is huge. Plus there isn't a whole lot to do there(not saying it is horrible by any stretch, but it is a college town, not a big city.)

I somehow managed to entertain myself without living a hedonistic lifestyle.

It is in TX, there are a TON of racists(I'm from TX and I love it.) Any place can be awesome with the right friends, even El Paso.

There are a ton of racists everywhere, in case you haven't noticed. It should be a non-issue in modern society, but it isn't.

Those all probably played a role, but when you have the skill set Crabtree does, the system could only help him. Anyone who has a shot at the NFL will go where they think will get them drafted highest.

I've got to disagree with this. His pro potential is probably limited by the system, if anything. This thread debates this very topic because of TTU's offense, whereas if he were playing in a more traditional offense, people wouldn't be questioning his abilities. I don't think he would have put up such lofty numbers elsewhere, but if he was dominating at a higher-profile team, his pro stock would likely be just as high, if not higher because he'd get more exposure from the team's performance overall.

It's because Tech throws the ball 80% of the time.

This doesn't address why a rushing TD is more legit than a passing TD.

A question for you Tech fans, any word about Eddie Britton? He killed us in high school, and it is always good to hear that someone from El Paso is doing good.

He'll start at X this season. Britton's a burner and a phenomenal blocker, but he still has the dropsies. He'll be a good deep threat for us this year, but I fear a critical drop or two sometime next year.

Tech's offense might actually be more QB friendly than the Run and Shoot. The Run and Shoot throws downfield a lot more. Tech's offense is a lot of 4 wide crossing routes, much easier for a high completion percentage. Unfortunately, it is a gimmick offense, but that doesn't mean it isn't the best offense in the nation.

I'm going to have to ask what defines a gimmick offense if you're going to throw out that label.

Ok, lets act like your word is gospel and no one can comment on anything about Tech or Lubbock because you go to school there...

I grew up in Austin. My parents and brother are all UT grads. I took a few summer classes at UT. I work in Austin now. Does any of this make me qualified to make generalizations about the UT collegiate experience?

I didn't say the entire town is racist, but your naive if you don't think it is very heavy in that area, and its too bad I'm not just talking out of my ass, speaking from experiences I witnessed, and a handful of my classmates witnessed as a large group of us attented Tech...

I didn't notice any difference in the pervasiveness of racism in Lubbock as opposed to elsewhere. The only difference is that Lubbock has overt racism, while some of the other cities have systemic racism. Both types of racism have similarly detrimental effects. I really don't feel like getting into a socioeconomic debate here, though.

So trust me, your not the only one qualified to make a comment about Lubbock so you can drop the high and mighty stance...

I guess I get to start blasting Austin/UT now, then.

Fact is, Tech is a HUGE party school, thats documented, that doesn't mean you can't go to school there and stay away from that crowd(as you said you did) but that doesn't mask the fact that it is what it is...There is nothing else to do out there, and the amount of parties and drinking is incredibly higher then most other universities, this is not just my opinion...

Would you care to qualify any of that? That is precisely just your opinion until you support it a bunch of empirical data to back up those "facts."

It has NOTHING to do with sterotyping, never did I say "If you go to Tech your a racist", so relax and stop acting like I insulted you,

Sorry, I'm just not a big fan of blanket statements from someone less qualified than myself at assessing Lubbock/TTU being thrown out there as representative of the university I take so much pride in, especially when they don't reflect my personal experiences at all.

personally I liked Tech, but to act like their isn't a high amount of racism going on means you don't know the area or you don't choose to believe it...LOTS of country/small towns in the outskirts of Texas are the exact same way, Lubbock is no different.

Austin is no different, either.

As far as your 2nd point, do you know Michael personally? Did he express his feelings to you, because I mean, you did go to school there so that makes you an expert on what the players want to do right? I have been watching him since he was playing QB in HS and saw him in action in the Kimbell/Carter game myself...

Hooray. I was a sportswriter during my time at TTU and never missed a football practice. I spoke with Crabtree on multiple occasions back during his redshirt year in 06 before he was a household name. I wouldn't say I knew him personally, but he'd probably vaguely remember me.

My point is that the REASON he wanted to go to Tech was because they have a pass happy offense, he gets a chance to make plays and gives him a better shot to go pro...

"I committed to Texas Tech during an in-home visit last night," Crabtree said. "They had my whole family there, and I talked to my cousin (Ricky Williams), who played running back there. My father wanted me to go to Texas Tech, and it is close to home. They throw the ball a lot, and I can play as a freshman. I was just tired of taking visits."

That was a quote he gave after committing. That's several reasons, which was my point. It wasn't as simple as you're making it out to be. Not to mention that his his top schools were Illinois, Kansas, Iowa, Kansas State, and Arizona. The only two schools on that list that pass often are Kansas and Arizona, and neither were utilizing the spread offense pre-2006.

If you want to believe in your fantasy world he chose Tech because of the coaches, education, or the fans you are seriously fooling yourself...

I think there were multiple factors.

Tech was not his only choice, so if he was an advocate of either of those, he would not of chose Tech in the first place...

I can only assume this was intended as a derisive comment towards TTU education, which is especially ironic considering the grammatical errors within the sentence.

OU and A&M offered him, so did other higher profile schools, but none gives him the chance to be the playmaker Tech would, or give him as many chances, don't think for one minute he didn't know this, and Leach didn't sell him on that...

I'm sure our offense was one of the selling points that brought Crabtree to campus; I'm just saying it wasn't the only thing.

I played WR myself coming out, when you play WR going to places like Hawaii and Tech are for the offense, and opportunity, nothing else...

I highly doubt that there were any similarities between your recruitment and Michael Crabtree's. I further fail to see how what you were looking for has any relevance to what Crabtree was looking for.

It's not like Lubbock is Austin and its a beautiful city that has so much to offer,

Tech's campus is plenty beautiful. It was what sold me on the school. The most fun I had was on campus. I liked that. I enjoyed that city attractions weren't what defined my collegiate experience. While the city of Lubbock doesn't have as much to offer as the city of Austin, it had zero bearing on how much I enjoyed attending Texas Tech University.

its not like the fan base if that of A&M or UT,

Maybe he didn't want to be cheered on by a bunch of delusional groupthinkers like the Aggies or fairweather t-shirt fans like the Longhorns.

the education is not on par with those schools either,

Education is about what you get out of it. There are kids who go to Ivy League schools purely on nepotism and waste away to become failures in life while others pay their way through community college and work their way to the top. In the end, an individual makes himself. That said, I don't think Crabtree's in school for education, just like most athletes.

but at Tech he gets to play sooner and be the primary target...He has no intentions on going back to Tech another year barring an injury,

So wait, you blasted my assertion that I could have an idea about why Crabtree chose TTU based on conversations with him, yet you turn around and claim to know his intentions here. In reality, he's remained extremely tight-lipped and dismissive towards talk of the NFL thus far. His dad's pushing him to leave, though, and considering the payday to be had, I can't say I blame him. Maybe he'll surprise everybody and stick around.

and yes a BCS game or Big XII championship CAN happen, but don't fool yourself into thinking he decided on Tech for those reasons.

I think our program stature was indeed a contributing factor, given that the schools he was looking at were mostly programs close to taking the next step. He really downplayed the OU offer, which tells me that he wasn't interested in being just another in a long line of blue-chips at an elite program. The feeling I got, both from speaking with him and hearing what he said to others, was that he wanted to be the guy to take a school to the next level. Judging by what he's done so far for us, it seems he's on his way.

Also your stats are a little mis-leading, its very rare that one specific DB is manned up on Crabtree the entire game, you just can't take Crabtree's entire game stats, and say "Well this DB was playing this game so Crabtree put up these numbers versus this guy", put your stats into context if you want people to take you seriously...Crabtree lined up all over the field for one, for two defenses rarely play Tech man to man due to how many WR's line up at once, and people hardly ever guard Crabtree man to man, take a look here:

The point was that he's had to deal with several quality DBs already.

I guess it makes sense to count this 60 yd TD score and say he did it on Reggie Smith because he is OU's best defender, so that automatically means Crabtree made this play on him Crabtree lined up on top, Reggie Smith was on the bottom not even covering him until he had beat half the defense,

That's the point. OU isn't exactly fielding scrub defenders, and Crabtree made them look silly.

great play yes, but don't list his entire game stats and say all those were against Smith because you have no idea how many times Smith was covering him man to man, and I can assure you it was very few...

I haven't gone and counted, if that's what you're asking.

Same goes for Wheatley, those teams know better then to play Tech man to man all game...

Actually, CU did play Wheatley man-to-man on Crabtree for most of that game. It was a fantastic battle between two great players. Sometimes Wheatley got the better of Crabtree, sometimes Crabtree got the better of Wheatley.

You don't even want me to get into you bringing up a UT defender,

I'm shaking with fear.

and then place Crabtree's entire game stats vs that one guy, when I know or a FACT we do not run man to man vs Tech, never have, and it be pointless to even try...No, guys were playng zone and areas vs Crabtree, there is no way in hell we would want Beasley lined up with Crabtree for that entire game, doesn't even make sense...

So in Crabtree's TDs against UT in 07 where he lined up on the right side of the field, cut left across the middle of the field on a screen, and took it past all the DBs to the house twice, whose zone was that supposed to be? He torched all the DBs on both of those plays, so I'm not seeing your point. If anything, I was being nice limiting it to just Beasley.

Your not the only one with knowledge about Tech or Lubbock in general, its one thing to offer up a little added info, but its another to act like if it has to do with your school you are automatically right.

I'd say spending four years at TTU lends more weight to my knowledge of Tech and Lubbock than someone who spent merely a semester there. It's a shame, too. It sounds like you missed a whole lot.

RedRaider427
06-12-2008, 02:39 PM
In summary, Michael Crabtree = Phenom.

Gchu83
06-12-2008, 04:49 PM
Phenom but being in Tech's system obviously doesn't hurt.

Flyboy
06-12-2008, 05:25 PM
I grew up in Lubbock for 18+ years of my life.

nobodyinparticular
06-12-2008, 06:17 PM
Who's seen enough of #5 to tell me if he's a premiere talent like a Larry Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson, or if he's just a product of the pass-happy system like a ? Jerry Rice was at Mississippi Valley State.....

He redshirted a season right? So this could be his last season at TT.

Someone at Tech break down Crab for me if you can..... anyone up there in Lubbock?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1105/1393733956_49aa96a1fc.jpg?v=0

Why did you use Jerry Rice as an example of product of the system? Jerry Rice is the best WR to play the game. Obviously he is no product of any system.

volman88
06-12-2008, 09:08 PM
Seems like there are alot of people that have gone to tech. I'm gonna be a freshmen there next year anyone have any advice or anything?

Flyboy
06-12-2008, 11:27 PM
Seems like there are alot of people that have gone to tech. I'm gonna be a freshmen there next year anyone have any advice or anything?

I went for a year and realized that it wasn't the school for me. Keep in mind though that I grew up in the city for basically all my life (hell, my high school is probably five minutes away from campus if THAT) so I was jaded.

RedRaider427
06-13-2008, 10:14 AM
Seems like there are alot of people that have gone to tech. I'm gonna be a freshmen there next year anyone have any advice or anything?

Enjoy the little things. Climb the bubble. Attend a night game at Jones Stadium and feel the electricity in the air. Have a One Guy's Calzone. Catch a basketball game at United Spirit Arena. Drink ridiculously cheap beer at Bash Riprock's, the ultimate dive bar. Tailgate with some of the finest people on earth. Take in those calm, cool Fall evenings and those bright Spring days when the skirts came out and the flowers were in bloom without a cloud in the sky. Have a conversation with Mike Leach. Make sure to join in on the outdoor party in Urbanovsky Park when it snows. Take a class from Dr. Schutzenberg. Ogle the ladies on Stangel Beach. Play a windy round of golf at the Rawls Course. Rent a nice house for cheap. Witness the Tech Hecklers in action at Dan Law. Help a girl across the flooded streets when it rains. Visit the Southwest Collections library. Just enjoy every second.

For me, there was just something about Texas Tech University that put me at peace. I can't tell you how much I want to go back and just take a nostalgic stroll around the campus. I'm honestly wiping a few tears away as I type these memories because I miss it all so much. I'll be taking some vacation time at the end of July just to go back to where I was happiest. I can't wait to have another taste of the easy life.

I went for a year and realized that it wasn't the school for me. Keep in mind though that I grew up in the city for basically all my life (hell, my high school is probably five minutes away from campus if THAT) so I was jaded.

Yeah, I think everyone kind of wants to get away from where they grew up. I know I did, even though everyone was expecting me to go to UT like the rest of my family did. Still, TTU isn't for everyone. It's not the most bustling atmosphere, but that's what I grew to love about it. It was everything I wanted in a college and then some.

LonghornsLegend
06-14-2008, 10:04 PM
I somehow managed to entertain myself without living a hedonistic lifestyle.




Way to try and be cute:rolleyes: Am I not allowed to form my own opinion about Tech, or is it only relevant when it is positives? I'm not sure.



There are a ton of racists everywhere, in case you haven't noticed. It should be a non-issue in modern society, but it isn't.


I never said their weren't so you should check that, my point is that it is heavier in Lubbock then say, Dallas or Fort Worth, of course there are not any statistics to use except from personal experience and friends experiences...Again, your taking too much offense to your beloved school/town, I never proclaimed Lubbock to be off the charts with racism or that it was ridiculous, but it is going on in that area...But that is just my opinion which I'm allowed to hold, but I don't want this thread or conversation to sway towards this area because it has nothing to do with Crabtree at all.



I've got to disagree with this. His pro potential is probably limited by the system, if anything. This thread debates this very topic because of TTU's offense, whereas if he were playing in a more traditional offense, people wouldn't be questioning his abilities. I don't think he would have put up such lofty numbers elsewhere, but if he was dominating at a higher-profile team, his pro stock would likely be just as high, if not higher because he'd get more exposure from the team's performance overall.


I guess you can argue that, but his looks, touches, receptions, none of that would be as high unless he were at Hawaii, if your a WR you absolutely love schools like Tech for those obvious reasons, granted his skills wouldn't be questioned as much at other schools, but then again, he wouldn't have as many chances to do something with the ball in his hands at another school.






I grew up in Austin. My parents and brother are all UT grads. I took a few summer classes at UT. I work in Austin now. Does any of this make me qualified to make generalizations about the UT collegiate experience?

I'm not sure what your point is, or what point your trying to make, but it does make you qualified to form an opinion about UT, and people can disagree with that assessment as well, but you still have that right, as do I have the right to form an opinion about Tech...Doesn't change anything because you graduated from there and are in love with the school.



I didn't notice any difference in the pervasiveness of racism in Lubbock as opposed to elsewhere. The only difference is that Lubbock has overt racism, while some of the other cities have systemic racism. Both types of racism have similarly detrimental effects. I really don't feel like getting into a socioeconomic debate here, though.

Again, we have our opinions, no need to turn this into a 'how racist is Lubbock ' debate, because its pointless.



I guess I get to start blasting Austin/UT now, then.

Again, makes no sense, but way to contribute to the conversation...I never "blasted" Tech anyway, its not for everyone, I'm sure your tenure there was peachy keen, but thats not the same for everyone, I loved Univ. of Houston and my time there and some people despise it, that doesn't make what they say untrue because I enjoyed myself...You realize that right?



Would you care to qualify any of that? That is precisely just your opinion until you support it a bunch of empirical data to back up those "facts."
Funny that you bring up the facts vs opinion statement, majority of your post are your opinions on Tech, and Crabtree, but I guess they are somehow facts because you graduated from there.



Sorry, I'm just not a big fan of blanket statements from someone less qualified than myself at assessing Lubbock/TTU being thrown out there as representative of the university I take so much pride in, especially when they don't reflect my personal experiences at all.


Again, let me get this straight...Unless I graduated from Tech and was apart of the school paper or some other function, that means I can't have my own opinion? How does that make any sense, I never stated anything about Tech as a fact, simply opinion, the same thing as yours, I know the difference and never made it seem like it was the gospel...





Hooray. I was a sportswriter during my time at TTU and never missed a football practice. I spoke with Crabtree on multiple occasions back during his redshirt year in 06 before he was a household name. I wouldn't say I knew him personally, but he'd probably vaguely remember me.

Congratulations...I met him when he was in HS at Carter because I annually attend the Carter vs Kimble games, in football and basketball...He hung with a circle of friends that I knew, and I formed my opinion from what I saw from him during this time, what his friends told me, and what I could pick up...Does that make me any more qualified to know him or speak about him personally? Of course it doesn't, but lets not toot your own horn about knowing him on a personal level or before he was a household name because if your from Dallas you knew about Michael Crabtree for some time, he is nowhere near new to any of us, and I've been a fan since he was a dual threat QB.




"I committed to Texas Tech during an in-home visit last night," Crabtree said. "They had my whole family there, and I talked to my cousin (Ricky Williams), who played running back there. My father wanted me to go to Texas Tech, and it is close to home. They throw the ball a lot, and I can play as a freshman. I was just tired of taking visits."

That was a quote he gave after committing. That's several reasons, which was my point. It wasn't as simple as you're making it out to be. Not to mention that his his top schools were Illinois, Kansas, Iowa, Kansas State, and Arizona. The only two schools on that list that pass often are Kansas and Arizona, and neither were utilizing the spread offense pre-2006.


What about that quote makes me believe he chose Tech because he would get a great education, or that Lubbock is a great place, or that he can win a BCS game, all reasons I previously disputed? What I got from it is that he would play right away, and the other factor that I brought up before you even posted that quote, "they throw the ball alot", hmmm what a surprise...He was changing positions so alot of big time schools like A&M might not of gave him the same opportunities to play his RS freshman year, at least not promised it the way Tech did...The other schools on his list mean little to nothing, a guy has a few schools he has in mind, the other ones are just there...When I graduated in 02 I remember Michael Hawkins from my school was the #1 DB in Texas, he was interested in OU, Miami, and Tennessee, but he had plenty of schools listed who he had no interest in attending more then a visit...KSU, A&M, alot of those schools had contact but he wasn't interested in them, they were interested in him.





I can only assume this was intended as a derisive comment towards TTU education, which is especially ironic considering the grammatical errors within the sentence.


I always find it amazing when people cannnot have the maturity to have a debate without catching feelings or taking personal shots, but I wouldn't expect anything different...Again, I have no hatred towards Tech, or their education, but its not one of the most prestigious universities in the nation so whats the point in making it seem to be that way...Of course I cannot prove it to be FACT that he didn't choose Tech for their education, but I also cannot prove its a FACT that Santa Clause doesn't exist, so I'll let you live in your fantasy world where Crabtree chose Tech for education and a shot at a NC, and while your at it you can throw a few more cheapshots at me when you can't find anything intelligent to respond with.



I'm sure our offense was one of the selling points that brought Crabtree to campus; I'm just saying it wasn't the only thing.
[/quote
I'll give you close to home, thats it...But since neither of us know, its my opinion vs yours, unless mine is null and void since I don't have a degree from there.


[quote]
I highly doubt that there were any similarities between your recruitment and Michael Crabtree's. I further fail to see how what you were looking for has any relevance to what Crabtree was looking for.

I never said they were exactly the same, I said I played WR, and I know going to schools like Tech for a WR is like heaven, same reasons RB's want to go to schools that run the ball, same reason running QB's wanted to go to Nebraska, there are always exceptions to the rule, but if Tech didn't run the spread I don't think you would see him there, thus making that reason one of the most important.



Tech's campus is plenty beautiful. It was what sold me on the school. The most fun I had was on campus. I liked that. I enjoyed that city attractions weren't what defined my collegiate experience. While the city of Lubbock doesn't have as much to offer as the city of Austin, it had zero bearing on how much I enjoyed attending Texas Tech University.


It is beautiful, when did I dispute that? It is a beautiful and expensive campus that is constantly rebuilding, the apartments were state of the art, and the facilities were top notch.



Maybe he didn't want to be cheered on by a bunch of delusional groupthinkers like the Aggies or fairweather t-shirt fans like the Longhorns.


Maybe, but thats your opinion too, maybe I should shoot that down too because you don't have facts to back it up.




So wait, you blasted my assertion that I could have an idea about why Crabtree chose TTU based on conversations with him, yet you turn around and claim to know his intentions here. In reality, he's remained extremely tight-lipped and dismissive towards talk of the NFL thus far. His dad's pushing him to leave, though, and considering the payday to be had, I can't say I blame him. Maybe he'll surprise everybody and stick around.

I think your assertion on Crabtree is what you want it to be, not what it really is, but again let me repeat myself, I do not know his intentions nor did I ever claim to, just my honest opinion on the matter...I will eat a big plate of crow if he returns, but barring injury, I see about a 5% chance he wants to come back...He wont be back to win a NC like some other schools offer, he won't be back to get his degree, he won't be back because he misses the people in Lubbock...Yes these are my opinions.



I think our program stature was indeed a contributing factor, given that the schools he was looking at were mostly programs close to taking the next step. He really downplayed the OU offer, which tells me that he wasn't interested in being just another in a long line of blue-chips at an elite program. The feeling I got, both from speaking with him and hearing what he said to others, was that he wanted to be the guy to take a school to the next level. Judging by what he's done so far for us, it seems he's on his way.

I agree he wanted to be the guy, but at OU its no telling when he would see the field at WR, and he certainly wasn't guaranteed playing time off the bat.



The point was that he's had to deal with several quality DBs already.

No the point is you posted mis-leading facts without putting them into context.



That's the point. OU isn't exactly fielding scrub defenders, and Crabtree made them look silly.


No thats not the point, the point is you listed his game total of yards and TD's and said it was done vs the likes of Reggie Smith, as if he was lined up facing Smith the entire game when almost majority of his huge catches were away from Smith, or when OU played zone...Don't post his game totals and say he acquired those numbers vs Smith when its untrue.





So in Crabtree's TDs against UT in 07 where he lined up on the right side of the field, cut left across the middle of the field on a screen, and took it past all the DBs to the house twice, whose zone was that supposed to be? He torched all the DBs on both of those plays, so I'm not seeing your point. If anything, I was being nice limiting it to just Beasley.


My point was that Beasley didn't play man to man with Crabtree all game, I never said Crabtree didn't torch us, so your tone that I'm some Longhorn lover and Tech hater is childish...He roasted every single one of our DB's, over and over and it wasn't close, but I know for a fact we weren't stupid enough to tell Beasley to cover him man up, and never have played that way even before Crabtree got to Tech.



I'd say spending four years at TTU lends more weight to my knowledge of Tech and Lubbock than someone who spent merely a semester there. It's a shame, too. It sounds like you missed a whole lot.

So does you spending four years there make you more knowledgeable to speak on Crabtree then mre? Because I could care less about Tech, I just spoke my opinion, I was speaking on Crabtree in this thread, and last I checked, you didn't have to graduate from a school to speak on its players...Also last time I checked, if you have a degree from a school that doesn't make your comments about the school factual, I'm fairly sure you don't understand that concept.

brat316
06-14-2008, 10:06 PM
One this is for sure on Crabtree he can catch, has good hands. Just now can he seperate from defenders and get open even when he is a decoy.

RedRaider427
06-16-2008, 10:09 PM
Way to try and be cute:rolleyes: Am I not allowed to form my own opinion about Tech, or is it only relevant when it is positives? I'm not sure.

You're allowed to have your own opinion, but that doesn't make it as valid as someone with more time and experience at TTU/Lubbock. You would be telling me the same thing if I was trashing UT.

I never said their weren't so you should check that, my point is that it is heavier in Lubbock then say, Dallas or Fort Worth, of course there are not any statistics to use except from personal experience and friends experiences...Again, your taking too much offense to your beloved school/town, I never proclaimed Lubbock to be off the charts with racism or that it was ridiculous, but it is going on in that area...But that is just my opinion which I'm allowed to hold, but I don't want this thread or conversation to sway towards this area because it has nothing to do with Crabtree at all.

Fair enough.

I guess you can argue that, but his looks, touches, receptions, none of that would be as high unless he were at Hawaii, if your a WR you absolutely love schools like Tech for those obvious reasons, granted his skills wouldn't be questioned as much at other schools, but then again, he wouldn't have as many chances to do something with the ball in his hands at another school.

Well, Crabtree certainly has flourished regardless. I think he would have excelled anywhere.

I'm not sure what your point is, or what point your trying to make, but it does make you qualified to form an opinion about UT, and people can disagree with that assessment as well, but you still have that right, as do I have the right to form an opinion about Tech...Doesn't change anything because you graduated from there and are in love with the school.

Right, but unless you're putting the validity of my opinion towards UT/Austin on par with yours, my point stands. I don't consider myself as qualified to make that assessment, much like I don't consider you as qualified to make such statements towards TTU/Lubbock. Again, you're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to say that it's less valid than someone who has spent more time at TTU/Lubbock.

Again, makes no sense, but way to contribute to the conversation...I never "blasted" Tech anyway, its not for everyone, I'm sure your tenure there was peachy keen, but thats not the same for everyone, I loved Univ. of Houston and my time there and some people despise it, that doesn't make what they say untrue because I enjoyed myself...You realize that right?

Yes, fully. I brought up my experience in the first place because I felt it was worth submitting an alternate perspective towards TTU/Lubbock than what had been presented in the thread.

Funny that you bring up the facts vs opinion statement, majority of your post are your opinions on Tech, and Crabtree, but I guess they are somehow facts because you graduated from there.

At no point did I suggest that any of my opinions were fact.

Again, let me get this straight...Unless I graduated from Tech and was apart of the school paper or some other function, that means I can't have my own opinion? How does that make any sense,

This is getting awfully redundant. You're allowed to have your opinion. What you aren't allowed to do is equate it to that of someone with more basis for theirs.

I never stated anything about Tech as a fact, simply opinion, the same thing as yours, I know the difference and never made it seem like it was the gospel...

Really?

"Fact is, Tech is a HUGE party school, thats documented, that doesn't mean you can't go to school there and stay away from that crowd(as you said you did) but that doesn't mask the fact that it is what it is...There is nothing else to do out there, and the amount of parties and drinking is incredibly higher then most other universities, this is not just my opinion..."

What about that quote makes me believe he chose Tech because he would get a great education, or that Lubbock is a great place, or that he can win a BCS game, all reasons I previously disputed? What I got from it is that he would play right away, and the other factor that I brought up before you even posted that quote, "they throw the ball alot", hmmm what a surprise...

You said "the REASON he wanted to go to Tech was because they have a pass happy offense." You even capitalized your position that there was only one factor in his decision. My point was that there was more to it than that, and his quote reflects such.

He was changing positions so alot of big time schools like A&M

A&M hasn't been a big-time school this entire millennium.

I always find it amazing when people cannnot have the maturity to have a debate without catching feelings or taking personal shots

Let's review. You threw out an insult towards the quality of my education after calling it a party school in a racist area. I responded by merely pointing out the irony of the grammatical errors within your dig at TTU education. Interesting.

but I wouldn't expect anything different...

I'd love to hear where you're going with this. Please elaborate.

Again, I have no hatred towards Tech, or their education, but its not one of the most prestigious universities in the nation so whats the point in making it seem to be that way...

You have no hatred of Tech or their education, and then you immediately proceed to hate on Tech education. Fantastic.

Of course I cannot prove it to be FACT that he didn't choose Tech for their education, but I also cannot prove its a FACT that Santa Clause doesn't exist, so I'll let you live in your fantasy world where Crabtree chose Tech for education and a shot at a NC,

I said that I don't think Crabtree's in school for education, just like most athletes. Furthermore, Crabtree seems to believe that an NC is possible with quotes like "Iím looking at this team going undefeated." (http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news?slug=rivals-214071&prov=rivals&type=lgns)I initially floated a bunch of reasons that he could have had for choosing Tech to refute that there was a singular REASON he chose Tech.

and while your at it you can throw a few more cheapshots at me when you can't find anything intelligent to respond with.

I fail to see how merely highlighting the irony of poor grammar after you've claimed that TTU education is sub-par to that of UT is a cheap shot. Feel free to explain.

I'll give you close to home, thats it...

Does this mean you're changing your stance that Tech's offense was the REASON he came here?

But since neither of us know, its my opinion vs yours, unless mine is null and void since I don't have a degree from there.

I'm going back up to visit TTU for a week at the end of July. I will see most of the team then. I'll ask him directly if I get a chance to settle this thing once and for all.

I never said they were exactly the same, I said I played WR, and I know going to schools like Tech for a WR is like heaven, same reasons RB's want to go to schools that run the ball, same reason running QB's wanted to go to Nebraska, there are always exceptions to the rule, but if Tech didn't run the spread I don't think you would see him there, thus making that reason one of the most important.

At what point did we go from "the REASON" to "one of the most important" reasons?

It is beautiful, when did I dispute that? It is a beautiful and expensive campus that is constantly rebuilding, the apartments were state of the art, and the facilities were top notch.

At least we agree on something.

Maybe, but thats your opinion too, maybe I should shoot that down too because you don't have facts to back it up.

Have at it. I didn't claim that was fact, as I threw that generalization out there simply to show you how annoying that kind of labeling is. I've already addressed where in multiple instances you claimed your opinions as fact.

I think your assertion on Crabtree is what you want it to be, not what it really is, but again let me repeat myself, I do not know his intentions nor did I ever claim to, just my honest opinion on the matter...I will eat a big plate of crow if he returns, but barring injury, I see about a 5% chance he wants to come back...He wont be back to win a NC like some other schools offer, he won't be back to get his degree, he won't be back because he misses the people in Lubbock...Yes these are my opinions.

Crabtree may not return if he has another great year, but if that happens, it will indicate little more than a no-brainer decision to be a sure 1st rounder. He may give up a shot at an NC, a degree, and the friendly West Texas people even if he would ideally like to stick around for those reasons for the guaranteed payday of being drafted. It would take a serious commitment to TTU to pass on a sure thing.

I agree he wanted to be the guy, but at OU its no telling when he would see the field at WR, and he certainly wasn't guaranteed playing time off the bat.

True. Like I said, the state of our program as a good team with potential to be great was yet another of the many reasons he chose us.

No the point is you posted mis-leading facts without putting them into context.

No thats not the point, the point is you listed his game total of yards and TD's and said it was done vs the likes of Reggie Smith, as if he was lined up facing Smith the entire game when almost majority of his huge catches were away from Smith, or when OU played zone...Don't post his game totals and say he acquired those numbers vs Smith when its untrue.

My point was that Beasley didn't play man to man with Crabtree all game, I never said Crabtree didn't torch us, so your tone that I'm some Longhorn lover and Tech hater is childish...He roasted every single one of our DB's, over and over and it wasn't close, but I know for a fact we weren't stupid enough to tell Beasley to cover him man up, and never have played that way even before Crabtree got to Tech.

Fine. Beasley and Smith did not play every snap directly in man-to-man coverage on Crabtree. (Wheatley is the same story, although he played almost all of that game one-on-one with Crabtree.) By this argument, hardly any receiver can be considered to have gotten production vs. any DB. Defenses rotate players in/out, shift coverages, etc. I didn't think that was particularly misleading.

So does you spending four years there make you more knowledgeable to speak on Crabtree then mre?

No, watching years of TTU practices, talking to Crabtree personally on multiple occasions, and being better versed in the quotes he has given over the years does. That said, going to TTU for four years does make me more knowledgeable about TTU/Lubbock than, say, someone who only went there for a semester.

Because I could care less about Tech, I just spoke my opinion, I was speaking on Crabtree in this thread, and last I checked, you didn't have to graduate from a school to speak on its players...

I haven't been too harsh in criticizing your opinions on Crabtree, aside from the ridiculous notion that our style of offense was the sole reason he came to Tech.

Also last time I checked, if you have a degree from a school that doesn't make your comments about the school factual, I'm fairly sure you don't understand that concept.

You sure about that? I am yet to present my points of view as anything other than educated opinions. You've still got some self-proclaimed "facts" out there to qualify. I'll wait.