PDA

View Full Version : 2008 Lions Offseason discussion


Pages : [1] 2 3 4

Xiomera
01-08-2008, 09:17 PM
I miss the days when this thread would have new posts everytime I came back to it. Come on young bucks!

So which Kick Returner should we draft?

Millen needs to use one of his mid round picks (4th/5th) on a guy with great KR skills . . . at least then if it turns out the guy can't play D or run routes then we can at least put him at KR and have not completely wasted the pick.

It kills me to see Steve Breaston and other late round guys like him get taken and contribute in a big way, while Detroit wastes picks on guys like Johnny Baldwin and A.J. Davis.

detroit4life
01-08-2008, 10:42 PM
im not sure i havent seen a lot of great returners other then the missouri freshman and desean jackson

BroadwayJoe10
01-09-2008, 08:21 PM
I bet pat white could make a good returnman, maybe like a slash player similar to how the jets use brad smith?? Not too sure about returnman.

What'sthe status of Shaun Rogers? I've read that he's on the outs with marinelli, but i've also heard on here that marinelli really likes shaun and wants to work with him to get him in shape. Thanks.

detroit4life
01-09-2008, 09:13 PM
pat white would get killed


i havent read anyhting new on rogers i think lions will keep him unless they get a good offer. I dont see millen shopping him around for a while because once he does that its a situation where u may need to get rid of himbecuase what ever motivation he had is now gone because he would then think we was not wanted either.

The upside to keeping him is he helps this defense so much when hes goin all out because hes so good. Marinelli knows that and had a similar situation with sapp buyin into the tampa two. I think that if this team wins rogers will be a pro bowler. he disapeard last year when we started loosing. ALso he was unable to condition in the offseason due to his knee so he could come into camp in good shape next year. Unfortunatly i dont think we know all of what is going on with these two

BroadwayJoe10
01-09-2008, 10:10 PM
pat white would get killed


i havent read anyhting new on rogers i think lions will keep him unless they get a good offer. I dont see millen shopping him around for a while because once he does that its a situation where u may need to get rid of himbecuase what ever motivation he had is now gone because he would then think we was not wanted either.

The upside to keeping him is he helps this defense so much when hes goin all out because hes so good. Marinelli knows that and had a similar situation with sapp buyin into the tampa two. I think that if this team wins rogers will be a pro bowler. he disapeard last year when we started loosing. ALso he was unable to condition in the offseason due to his knee so he could come into camp in good shape next year. Unfortunatly i dont think we know all of what is going on with these two

I know what you mean, i hear the same thing with vilma all the time. He says he wants to stay and win with the jets, but when theres plenty of rumors from friends or whatnot saying he doesn't want to be there, I tend to beleive there's always a bit of fire that caused all the smoke.

I too think that if he can get in shape and he wants to play he's a top 5 DT easily in this league. Even though he is a bit tall, I think he's one of the few taller DTs that could actually flourish as a NT. But than you gotta get him to want to take on two three blockers every down.

wingboy2999
01-09-2008, 11:17 PM
I honestly think they just need to get the man some lypo. If he lost like 30 pounds that is going to help his fitness even if they suck it out of him. IT MAKES SENSE!

BroadwayJoe10
01-10-2008, 09:06 AM
I honestly think they just need to get the man some lypo. If he lost like 30 pounds that is going to help his fitness even if they suck it out of him. IT MAKES SENSE!

Haha and i bet they could get the insurance to cover it becuase it's job related and not optional elective surgery (are there any complications with that kinda surgery as in not allowed to get hit in the stomach for months???); kinda like strippers getting free boob jobs??

wingboy2999
01-10-2008, 12:29 PM
I have no idea honestly. Just something I thought of that'd help in someway. I'm sure it'd be like any other surgery. They probably don't do a lot of stuff with people in "impact" jobs like sports.

Hines
01-13-2008, 01:41 PM
Lions are dangling Roy Williams before the draft. If he is not dealt at the draft, he will leave as a free agent after this coming season.

wingboy2999
01-13-2008, 01:46 PM
Lions are dangling Roy Williams before the draft. If he is not dealt at the draft, he will leave as a free agent after this coming season.

We've been talking about this for days..... and we can franchise him. Thanks for the info though.

Scotty D
01-14-2008, 11:36 PM
Michael Oher declares. This is huge for us because it potentially upgrades us from Jeff Otah to Clady/Oher.

Addict
01-15-2008, 04:46 AM
Michael Oher declares. This is huge for us because it potentially upgrades us from Jeff Otah to Clady/Oher.

I luv it.

Hey I was just thinking, with and CB depth as it is, do you see us going for a running back? With KJ about as durable as my grandma, who recently broke her arm falling off a chair, and a huge amount of running backs (especially juniors) available, I think it's an option.

Thing is, it's one less pick to spend on D... but we need the O to work, and with KJ injured every year, that's just killing us.

Addict
01-15-2008, 04:47 AM
Lions are dangling Roy Williams before the draft. If he is not dealt at the draft, he will leave as a free agent after this coming season.

I want a first, nothing more, a first-rounder would allow us to get so much more out of this insanely deep draft.

wingboy2999
01-15-2008, 02:17 PM
We might be able to get more then a 1st. A small amount more but maybe more.

And yes, I want use to look at RB but not early obviously. A solid option could drop to 3rd - 4th.

Prowler
01-16-2008, 02:10 PM
steve slaton in the 3rd would be nice, heck the potential undrafteds look pretty good too. i'd like a stud de/cb in first and 2nd and then whatever the marine wants to fill out his team. tommy blake would be a good option later since we wouldn't have to worry about him choking before any big games.

WMD
01-16-2008, 05:26 PM
Michael Oher declares. This is huge for us because it potentially upgrades us from Jeff Otah to Clady/Oher.

He's going back.

wingboy2999
01-16-2008, 05:29 PM
He's going back.

Since when? I thought he declared.

Addict
01-16-2008, 05:59 PM
Since when? I thought he declared.

he did http://www.olemisssports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=2600&ATCLID=1368630

wingboy2999
01-16-2008, 06:38 PM
Then what the hell is WMD talking about?

Addict
01-16-2008, 07:46 PM
Then what the hell is WMD talking about?

actually, upon further review, he's right.

http://www.olemisssports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=2600&ATCLID=1369878

oher changed his mind yesterday.

wingboy2999
01-16-2008, 09:15 PM
Touche WMD.... touche.

detroit4life
01-16-2008, 11:55 PM
thats too bad for us...maybe he knew hed end up in detroit and decided hed rather spend another year in college then come here

WMD
01-17-2008, 12:34 AM
Then what the hell is WMD talking about?

You have caused me great emotional trauma with that loud outburst.

Whitebull
01-17-2008, 10:36 AM
When will this thread end? We have a whole forum for lions discussion, confining it to this obnoxiously large thread stinks.

Xiomera
01-17-2008, 12:13 PM
When will this thread end? We have a whole forum for lions discussion, confining it to this obnoxiously large thread stinks.

This is a thread for all the disjointed Lions discussion . . . it will never end so long as we fail to win a Super Bowl.

I try and start at least a thread a week to discuss specific things (Free Agency, Specific Players, How much I hate Rod, etc.).

wingboy2999
01-17-2008, 01:13 PM
When will this thread end? We have a whole forum for lions discussion, confining it to this obnoxiously large thread stinks.

Why do you care?

Whitebull
01-18-2008, 08:47 AM
LOL.


Why do you care?

Why do you care that I care?

Iamcanadian
01-18-2008, 10:16 AM
steve slaton in the 3rd would be nice, heck the potential undrafteds look pretty good too. i'd like a stud de/cb in first and 2nd and then whatever the marine wants to fill out his team. tommy blake would be a good option later since we wouldn't have to worry about him choking before any big games.

Now that's funny!!!

Bills2083
01-18-2008, 06:56 PM
Would you guys be interested in acquiring JP Losman this offseason, or no?

wingboy2999
01-18-2008, 07:56 PM
Uhhhh maybe? Probably not though. We are pretty set with Kitna for next year. And we like Stanton around here.

Brodeur
01-18-2008, 08:28 PM
And we like Stanton around here.

I always thought it was pretty split between like and hate.

TacticaLion
01-19-2008, 01:12 AM
I always thought it was pretty split between like and hate.

Both are too early...

WMD
01-19-2008, 05:24 AM
I always thought it was pretty split between like and hate.

Put me down for hate.

Iamcanadian
01-19-2008, 10:10 AM
I luv it.

Hey I was just thinking, with and CB depth as it is, do you see us going for a running back? With KJ about as durable as my grandma, who recently broke her arm falling off a chair, and a huge amount of running backs (especially juniors) available, I think it's an option.

Thing is, it's one less pick to spend on D... but we need the O to work, and with KJ injured every year, that's just killing us.

There is no way Marinelli can go into the season with Duckett as our RB unless he's fallen in love with the guy. If he thinks for a minute that Duckett isn't a capable starter, we could even go RB in round 1. Marinelli got rid of Martz because he wants to run the ball as his 1st priority and to do that, you need a #1 RB.
Marinelli knows that our OL will be a good run blocking unit and having to pass block less will make it easier on them in pass protection. He knows that if we can establish a good running attack, our defense won't be on the field too much a la Tampa Bay and that alone will mean we give up far less points.
In this senerio, having 2 great WR's is a complete waste and Roy indeed could be traded to bring in another 1st rounder to help the defense.
This is my guess on how Marinelli intends to scheme his offense. We'll run the ball and run the ball and run the ball some more, limiting Kitna's passing and making pass protect a heck of a lot easier. He'll try to keep his defense off the field by managing the clock until he can bring his defense up to snuff. We'll throw ocassionaly downfield to Johnson assuming Roy is traded, just enough to make sure teams don't load up the box to stop the running game.
It's kind of sad that after drafting 4 WR's #1, we switch to a running attack where Kitna's limitations as a passer won't hurt us. IMO, it is a sound way to go given our weak defense and a very limited QB. However, it does require a star RB so don't be shocked if we draft one.

Bootland27
01-19-2008, 11:43 AM
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/mark_beech/10/05/oregon/p1_stewart_1005.jpg

Xiomera
01-19-2008, 12:43 PM
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/mark_beech/10/05/oregon/p1_stewart_1005.jpg

I like Stewart a ton, but this is a tremendously deep RB class it seems . . . no need to take one in Rd.1 . . . if we chose to take one in round 2 however, I wouldn't think it to be a bad move. Unless of course it turns out to be another Pinner or Calhoun. HA HA

I would much prefer to go after Michael Turner in free agency though.

Addict
01-19-2008, 01:26 PM
I like Stewart a ton, but this is a tremendously deep RB class it seems . . . no need to take one in Rd.1 . . . if we chose to take one in round 2 however, I wouldn't think it to be a bad move. Unless of course it turns out to be another Pinner or Calhoun. HA HA

I would much prefer to go after Michael Turner in free agency though.

I'm beginning to really really like Mendenhall... he screams perfect nfl RB to me for some reason... if we go RB in the first, I'd like him.

Maybe a trade-down to the early twenties would be a nice idea as well.

Guys... just crossed my mind that with Roy leaving and us probably kinda sucking next year, we could (note: hopefully not) be in the running for Laurinatis (I really don't know how to write his name). Fingers crossed that we're out of position to get him, but if we were bad and we miss out on him, I'd buy myself a ticket to motor city and kill Millen.

wingboy2999
01-19-2008, 11:19 PM
I don't know if I like the idea of a RB.... we need OL or D. We don't need more offensive help...

WMD
01-19-2008, 11:29 PM
I don't know if I like the idea of a RB.... we need OL or D. We don't need more offensive help...

Agreed. I'd rank our needs as::

1. DE
2. ILB
3. CB
4. OT/OG (mainly OG if we re-sign Woody.. This position moves higher up if Woody leaves.. and in that scenario I want to spend our Round 2 on an OT)
5. RB

Addict
01-20-2008, 08:33 AM
Agreed. I'd rank our needs as::

1. DE
2. ILB
3. CB
4. OT/OG (mainly OG if we re-sign Woody.. This position moves higher up if Woody leaves.. and in that scenario I want to spend our Round 2 on an OT)
5. RB

.... But I want Mendenhall DAMMIT

WMD
01-20-2008, 11:41 AM
.... But I want Mendenhall DAMMIT

I'm all for it if he can double up as a DE.

Brothgar
01-20-2008, 01:44 PM
I was listening to detroit sports radio (On iTunes) and Drew Sharp said something that was very interesting.

He said something along the lines of the reason the Lions hired within is that Ford Sr had issued an ultimatum to Millen and Marenelli (could never spell his name right) that it is playoffs or blow up the organization starting at the top.

Of course this was only a theory but I wanted to know what you thought of it,

wingboy2999
01-20-2008, 01:47 PM
Well, let me say this. I like the idea of RB for value... or later in the draft since it is so deep. If all our guys are off the board at 15 and a good RB is there and we'd have to reach to get a player for us... then maybe. But if there is a OT or DE that we need and Millen takes a RB... screw that.

wingboy2999
01-20-2008, 01:48 PM
I was listening to detroit sports radio (On iTunes) and Drew Sharp said something that was very interesting.

He said something along the lines of the reason the Lions hired within is that Ford Sr had issued an ultimatum to Millen and Marenelli (could never spell his name right) that it is playoffs or blow up the organization starting at the top.

Of course this was only a theory but I wanted to know what you thought of it,

Anyone here all for not making the playoffs then? And if we did trade Roy and Rogers we'd already be blowing the team up.

wingboy2999
01-20-2008, 05:10 PM
I REALLY wan this forum mock to get started....

Addict
01-20-2008, 06:19 PM
Anyone here all for not making the playoffs then? And if we did trade Roy and Rogers we'd already be blowing the team up.

hahhahahahahahahahahahahhaahaha why not make the thing we do annualy our goal, that way we finally achieve what we want to achieve...

it's a strategy...

wingboy2999
01-20-2008, 06:31 PM
hahhahahahahahahahahahahhaahaha why not make the thing we do annualy our goal, that way we finally achieve what we want to achieve...

it's a strategy...

Hey, I'm saying just so we can get rid of Millen and his ineptitude. Only if that ultimatum was, infact, offered.

WMD
01-20-2008, 11:41 PM
I was listening to detroit sports radio (On iTunes) and Drew Sharp said something that was very interesting.

He said something along the lines of the reason the Lions hired within is that Ford Sr had issued an ultimatum to Millen and Marenelli (could never spell his name right) that it is playoffs or blow up the organization starting at the top.

Of course this was only a theory but I wanted to know what you thought of it,

Ford is CRAZY if he thought this was anywhere close to a playoff team. They overachieved with 7 wins this year. What an idiot, if this is true... Hell, even if this isn't true.. Ford is an idiot.

Addict
01-21-2008, 08:22 AM
Ford is CRAZY if he thought this was anywhere close to a playoff team. They overachieved with 7 wins this year. What an idiot, if this is true... Hell, even if this isn't true.. Ford is an idiot.

these words are true. Can't we hire Arthur Blank to be our owner?

jbombul
01-21-2008, 09:34 AM
these words are true. Can't we hire Arthur Blank to be our owner?

haha u dont hire someone to be your owner

Scotty D
01-21-2008, 08:04 PM
.... But I want Mendenhall DAMMIT

Mendenhall is my favorite RB prospect in this draft. I'd love to see him on the Lions. But its just not the right way to build a football team.

detroit4life
01-21-2008, 08:48 PM
all we need to be a good running team is duckett and a slasher/ speed RB. A lot of teams are now running a two or even 3 rb rotation and they are successful in doing this. Duckett gives us power while a speed guy gives us a homerun threat. We dont need to spend a 1st round pick or even a 2nd round pick on a RB. We have bigger needs then that.

wingboy2999
01-21-2008, 09:02 PM
I think a guy like Ray Rice is a valid option as he'll be around in the 3rd.

Addict
01-22-2008, 03:26 PM
I think a guy like Ray Rice is a valid option as he'll be around in the 3rd.

okay let me spell this out for you:

I w-a-n-t R-a-s-h-a-r-d M-e-n-d-e-n-h-a-l-l

wingboy2999
01-22-2008, 06:48 PM
Kiper has us taking McKelvin.

detroit4life
01-22-2008, 08:31 PM
okay let me spell this out for you:

I w-a-n-t R-a-s-h-a-r-d M-e-n-d-e-n-h-a-l-l

we know this already

wingboy2999
01-22-2008, 09:46 PM
okay let me spell this out for you:

I w-a-n-t R-a-s-h-a-r-d M-e-n-d-e-n-h-a-l-l-t-o-l-o-v-e-m-e

Fixed it for you.

Xiomera
01-23-2008, 12:32 PM
Anyone think Loeffler will push for the Lions to draft Chad Henne in round 2?

Thoughts?

ironman4579
01-23-2008, 12:44 PM
Anyone think Loeffler will push for the Lions to draft Chad Henne in round 2?

Thoughts?

He might, but with Stanton drafted last year, I can't see him getting a great reception on that idea, although I personally think Henne will be a superior pro.

Xiomera
01-23-2008, 01:11 PM
I think it's an interesting possibility. I like Henne more than Stanton too (and that's not just my U-M fandom talking).

If Henne boosts his stock to a 2nd round level at the Senior Bowl (pretty likely bet), then I wouldn't be opposed to that sort of pick. At least then we could have some hope that one of the two will pan out and be a legit starter for us.

LonghornsLegend
01-23-2008, 01:32 PM
Whats the deal with Stanton now that Martz is gone? Wasnt he picked because he fit that type of system, so he is probably just a future backup now?


And I dont know why so many guys want a rb round 1 for you guys, KJ is always banged up but a pure beast if he can be healthy, Duckett is back to his old days and no one wants to tackle him when he picks up steam, same thing as Brandon Jacobs, you could grab a guy later on who has some speed to mix in with the other 2 backs, just doesnt seem like a huge need...


but if you guys ship off rogers and roy, that gives you more options to work with

ironman4579
01-23-2008, 01:35 PM
I think it's an interesting possibility. I like Henne more than Stanton too (and that's not just my U-M fandom talking).

If Henne boosts his stock to a 2nd round level at the Senior Bowl (pretty likely bet), then I wouldn't be opposed to that sort of pick. At least then we could have some hope that one of the two will pan out and be a legit starter for us.

Stanton is just too squirrely and inconsistent for me. I hate his reads. Henne is a statue back there, but he's a pure pocket passer that has experience with pro reads, a strong arm etc. I wouldn't be opposed to the pick either honestly, although we certainly have bigger needs IMO.

detroit4life
01-23-2008, 01:44 PM
Loeffler was brought in specifically for stanton not to bring in a new QB. This isnt going to happen the lions could do so much more with that pick then to take it on another QB.

Personally i like stanton more then henne and ive watched both a ton. Henne's numbers are somewhat a product of the system he played in and a product of being around great WRs his entire career. He stares down targets a ton and makes a lot of mistakes. If he wasnt able to throw deep balls to wrs like braylon edwards and mario maningham. or screens to guys like breaston and edwards. He would have had a terrible career at michigan IMO. He's had great rbs a great LT and great WRS since day one

ironman4579
01-23-2008, 01:47 PM
Of course, you could say Stanton's numbers were a product of playing in a spread offense as well. Personally, I just don't like Stanton's decision making at all.

detroit4life
01-23-2008, 01:51 PM
Of course, you could say Stanton's numbers were a product of playing in a spread offense as well. Personally, I just don't like Stanton's decision making at all.

have u ever watched henne make decisions he really isnt a great QB at all. Ive watched henne play nearly every game since he was a freshman and ill take my chances with stanton over henne any day

wingboy2999
01-23-2008, 05:15 PM
I like the extra dimesnion that Stanton brings. This may soon devolve into a U of M vs. MSU debate.

asmitty45
01-24-2008, 03:41 PM
we aren't taking a QB. drop the notion. We took stanton for a reason, he will be a very good QB. Better than Henne.

Addict
01-25-2008, 09:10 AM
I hardly think Henne's an option, we need the picks to fill holes. Anyone think we could have a go for Tim Zbikowski if he falls a bit?

Bootland27
01-26-2008, 05:52 PM
I'm not advocating that we take Henne but....

He's looked great so far in the senior bowl. His passes and execution look sharp; he's thrown for 2 TDs in less than 2 quarters of play.

He's potentially jumped up as many as two rounds in the mocks after this week, I'm sure.

Addict
01-27-2008, 07:12 AM
I'm not advocating that we take Henne but....

He's looked great so far in the senior bowl. His passes and execution look sharp; he's thrown for 2 TDs in less than 2 quarters of play.

He's potentially jumped up as many as two rounds in the mocks after this week, I'm sure.

if somebody takes him early second I'm all for it, that increases the chance someone like Mayo or Henderson is available in the second for us. We have Stanton behind Kitna, I'd be pretty upset if they draft Henne to be honest.

Scotty D
01-27-2008, 10:27 PM
I never agreed with taking a QB last year. I always liked this QB class more. I'm not giving up on Stanton though. I can't wait to watch him in pre-season.

wingboy2999
01-27-2008, 10:40 PM
I think he can be a quality QB. That may be skewed by the fact that we [Pitt] got torched by him. But I think he can do something.

TacticaLion
01-28-2008, 12:12 AM
I was reading through the "Lions Mock Drafts - Post Your Own and Discuss" thread... some good memories.

Let me just say... that I (and many other Lions fans) wanted Willis... badly. And, some random poster *cough**IAC**cough* didn't have the same belief (bah... opinions). A brief trip down memory lane:

But let me ask you this, If Willis is so great as his worouts might indicate, why is he still listed as an 11-19 pick, why isn't he a sure fire top 10 guy or even top 5. What is it that is keeping him out of the top 10??? Could it be that the scouts and GM's aren't in complete agreement with Tactical Lion about his potential??? His ranking suggests he is a far greater risk as a bust than Adams. Scouts are saying that Adams is the BEST defender in the draft and Willis isn't in his league, so who do you want to follow, the scouts and GM's or Tactical Lion. Call me crazy but I want the best and the fact that the best plays a huge position of need is just the icing on the cake. It's a perfect match.

The draft I would hate to see!
1) Patrick Willis MLB - Just not a key position in a Cover 2, would be a complete waste as our 1st pick

There was more Willis-bashing that took place... but got tired of looking.

I wish we had Willis...

wingboy2999
01-28-2008, 12:18 AM
Yeah... thanks for making us wonder what could have been. Haha.

WMD
01-28-2008, 01:42 AM
Yep.. I'm pretty sure I started the Patrick Willis bandwagon.. It's too bad we didn't get him. Let it be known that whether he fits the scheme or not, I started the Calais Campbell to the Lions bandwagon too!!

Xiomera
01-28-2008, 06:58 AM
Yep.. I'm pretty sure I started the Patrick Willis bandwagon.. It's too bad we didn't get him. Let it be known that whether he fits the scheme or not, I started the Calais Campbell to the Lions bandwagon too!!

BOOOO ON CAMPBELL!

JPLUFF
01-28-2008, 10:13 AM
I hardly think Henne's an option, we need the picks to fill holes. Anyone think we could have a go for Tim Zbikowski if he falls a bit?

Only if he's there in the 5th or later. He'll be a poor man's Roy Williams in that he'll be a liability in coverage (and probably isn't nearly as good vs. the run). We'd might as well keep Kenoy if we have any intent on drafting Zbikowski.

wingboy2999
01-28-2008, 11:07 AM
If we get in any brawls we could use him.

TacticaLion
01-28-2008, 11:12 AM
Yep.. I'm pretty sure I started the Patrick Willis bandwagon.. It's too bad we didn't get him. Let it be known that whether he fits the scheme or not, I started the Calais Campbell to the Lions bandwagon too!!WHAT!?

I started the Willis bandwagon! I was all over it... it was even known to be a bit of a "man crush".

You may have rode in the passenger seat, but I was driving.

Addict
01-28-2008, 04:16 PM
WHAT!?

I started the Willis bandwagon! I was all over it... it was even known to be a bit of a "man crush".

You may have rode in the passenger seat, but I was driving.

I think tactica was right about it. Even though WMD was pretty quick as well...

Scotty D
01-28-2008, 04:32 PM
Now boys. Lets not fight over who had the crush on Willis first.

WMD
01-28-2008, 06:28 PM
Well let's just look at Page 10 of this very thread where I say that I want Patrick Willis in a Lions uniform! This was in December of 2006. I freakin' win, jerky!

Addict
01-28-2008, 08:03 PM
Well let's just look at Page 10 of this very thread where I say that I want Patrick Willis in a Lions uniform! This was in December of 2006. I freakin' win, jerky!

I don't mean to be rude, but you need to get yourself a life dude....

WMD
01-28-2008, 08:11 PM
I don't mean to be rude, but you need to get yourself a life dude....

Why don't you S my C.

wingboy2999
01-28-2008, 08:14 PM
Wow. So generous of you to offer him a sip of your coffee. It is 9 at night though, so lay off the caffeine.

Xiomera
01-28-2008, 09:07 PM
Wow. So generous of you to offer him a sip of your coffee. It is 9 at night though, so lay off the caffeine.

I think he was telling him to "Stay off" my "case" . . . he does what he wants.

He's a man! He's like 20-something!

wingboy2999
01-28-2008, 09:32 PM
Why don't you S my C.

Maybe he was asking him to cover his shift.... "Why don't you sell my chicken?" He works at KFC after all.

TacticaLion
01-28-2008, 09:57 PM
Now boys. Lets not fight over who had the crush on Willis first.There's no fight, Scotty... I'll be the bigger internet poster and... walk away?...
For the record: I had the crush on Willis first.
I gave this suggestion to a mock draft thread and wanted to get a feel for it here:

Want to please a Lions fan? Have an intriguing trade involving Roy Williams and acquiring additional picks. Take the best MLB and Talib (from Roy trade) in round 1, Cason (if available) in round 2, either a solid RB or NT in round 3 and address OT/KR in later picks.

Wouldn't that be beautiful?

wingboy2999
01-28-2008, 11:10 PM
Let's pass the Packers forum for # of posts by draft time. We are a little less then 3000 down. DO IT UP!

wingboy2999
01-29-2008, 05:08 PM
I guess my call to arms didn't work.

Scotty D
01-29-2008, 05:26 PM
I guess my call to arms didn't work.

Not a lot to talk about right now. Need some info to come out.

WMD
01-29-2008, 05:34 PM
Let's pass the Packers.. I'm all for it. I'll try to create some thought provoking threads here.

detroit4life
01-29-2008, 05:42 PM
we could just scrap all 5 of the threads talking about moving roy and shaun rogers and discuss it in here

wingboy2999
01-29-2008, 05:43 PM
Nah, the more places to talk, the more posts.

Scotty D
02-01-2008, 11:36 PM
Scott's mock.

Mike Jenkins, CB

Carl Nicks, OT

What do you think?

Brothgar
02-02-2008, 12:28 AM
Scott's mock.

Mike Jenkins, CB

Carl Nicks, OT

What do you think?

Considering that there is no OT value at 15 with Otah going to Chicago it pretty much has to be either Jenkins or Harvey or some other defensive player. That would suck if Otah was gone by the pick though

TacticaLion
02-02-2008, 11:34 AM
Scott's mock.

Mike Jenkins, CB

Carl Nicks, OT

What do you think?
Not a big fan of it.

This is what I posted on the thread:
MIKE JENKINS
CB | South Florida | Scouting Report
I will refrain from making that same old Matt Millen / wide receiver crack... For all of the Lions problems, and there have been plenty, perhaps the biggest has been the secondary, where there is very little to get excited about at cornerback. Nobody is going to call Mike Jenkins a shutdown corner or confuse him with Deion Sanders but he is a good fit for their defensive scheme and would represent a major upgrade for them. Detroit also has problems along the offensive line and they were even playing centers and guards at right tackle in '07 so don't rule out a guy like Jeff Otah either.Good fit for their defensive scheme?

Weaknesses:
Is not great in run support...Not overly instinctive...Pretty inconsistent...Has some character questions...Footwork and technique are shaky...Lacks superb ball skills and awareness...Toughness may be an issue...Might be a bit of a CB / S 'tweener.How is he a great fit for the Cover 2 if he can't support the run? Not only that, but Marinelli is big on character and will not draft a player with character concerns.

There are other solid picks in round 1... including Aqib Talib and Dan Connor (the two positions they want to improve the most). Jenkins is not a fit.

Carl Nicks OT | Nebraska | Scouting Report
Jeff Backus is slowing down, George Foster was a bust and Damien Woody's not a right tackle.Damien Woody's not a right tackle? Sure, on NFL.com, it may list him as an OG... but, if he can outplay other RTs in the NFL, that's good enough for me. He had a great year at RT and, if he's resigned, can solidify the position.

If Talib (or another CB) is selected in round 1, MLB should be addressed in round 2. Wheeler would be a great pick.Whether we like it or not, OT probably wont be the pick in the first two rounds.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-02-2008, 12:30 PM
Mike Jenkins is an interesting pick. I know run support is important in the Cover 2 but so is the ability to give pass D support. If they(meaning Marinelli and Barry) think Jenkins is the best cover corner and has the best ball skills and can actually stay with a receiver(unlike our corners except for Bryant in the first half of the season), I can deal with a weakness in run spport. Corners,even Cover 2 corners(although they have to make more tackles than man corners) aren't the first line of defense in run defense. Jenkins has to be able to make a tackle, but if he can cover the best and our D-line and LBs do what they are supposed too it shouldn't be a problem.

Jenkins is bigger than McKelvin and about the same weight as Talib. Although Talib is listed 2 inches taller but we won't find out there real true measurements until the combine.

TacticaLion
02-02-2008, 12:54 PM
Mike Jenkins is an interesting pick. I know run support is important in the Cover 2 but so is the ability to give pass D support. If they(meaning Marinelli and Barry) think Jenkins is the best cover corner and has the best ball skills and can actually stay with a receiver(unlike our corners except for Bryant in the first half of the season), I can deal with a weakness in run spport. Corners,even Cover 2 corners(although they have to make more tackles than man corners) aren't the first line of defense in run defense. Jenkins has to be able to make a tackle, but if he can cover the best and our D-line and LBs do what they are supposed too it shouldn't be a problem.

Jenkins is bigger than McKelvin and about the same weight as Talib. Although Talib is listed 2 inches taller but we won't find out there real true measurements until the combine.
Sorry... I don't want a CB that isn't a good fit for the scheme (Bly). If we're drafting to improve the defense, we have to draft the players that fit.

Not only is Jenkins a bad fit, but he had legal issues. Can't see Marinelli wanting a player that a) doesn't fit the scheme, and b) has character concerns.

Bootland27
02-02-2008, 02:17 PM
Scouting Report for Aqib Talib:

Strengths: Aqib is a big corner with good speed and ball awareness. Fluid athlete. A solid man cover guy with good flexibility, nice ups, and the ability to run and bat balls away. Excellent return skills add to his value. Can be electrifying when he is right. Decent ball skills. Very good production. Seasoned. Even played some offense at KU, and his versatility is among the best of any player coming into the 2008 draft. Big time potential, if it can all be harnassed.

Weaknesses: Is not a very solid run supporter. Not a very good tackler at this stage of his development. Relies too much on his natural gifts and hasn't yet worked hard enough to develop his technique. Bites too early. Jumps routes and sometimes misses the ball. A bit of a boom or bust type. Needs to stop reading his press clippings. Not the best team guy around.

Bootland27
02-02-2008, 02:20 PM
When you look back at this draft few years down the road, I wouldn't be surprised if Cason stood out above everyone else. He's a great all-around corner and would be the best fit for our scheme.

TacticaLion
02-02-2008, 05:37 PM
Scouting Report for Aqib Talib:

That was released before I made my statement.

I think it has been noted that Talib was an ideal Cover 2 CB. Scott lacked a scouting report at the time, and I don't have the time to be a professional scout.

So, now I think Connor is the logical Round 1 pick and we grab Cason in round 2.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-02-2008, 05:38 PM
Sorry... I don't want a CB that isn't a good fit for the scheme (Bly). If we're drafting to improve the defense, we have to draft the players that fit.

Not only is Jenkins a bad fit, but he had legal issues. Can't see Marinelli wanting a player that a) doesn't fit the scheme, and b) has character concerns.

I agree if Talib and Jenkins are even in ball skills and the ability to cover a receiver. Its a no brainer to take Talib. I'm just saying if Marinelli and Barry think Jenkins can cover a receiver better they might take Jenkins. It is the corners must important attribute.

And as far as Bly, I don't miss his attitude but I sure has heck missed his play this year. Bly was our best corner last year(even though he didn't fit the system) and he would have been our best corner this year. Fisher fits the Cover 2 but Bly still plays better in a Cover 2 than Travis Fisher. Why because Bly can cover a receiver much better. You know not one of our "Cover 2" corners this year matched Blys production for 06. Bly had 3 picks in 06 which was matched by only Keith Smith(who basically was really hit or miss ,he'd get a pick but then get burnt several times) but Bly had 4 forced fumbles which wasn't matched by any of our "run support" corners this year. It wasn't even close. Plus Bly didn't get burnt all the time and he was on number 1 receivers. He had 18 PD which wasn't matched by anyone this year. Keith Smith and Wilson had the luxury of having a second year in the system as well but they were basically terrible. Bryant stepped up his play but only the first half of the season and he wasn't the same after his injury in Arizona. Bly with another year in the Cover 2 might have done well. But that being said, we had to get rid of Bly because of his attitude.

To sum it up, if he can cover betterthan Cover 2 prosepcts we better at least consider him.

TacticaLion
02-02-2008, 05:41 PM
I agree if Talib and Jenkins are even in ball skills and the ability to cover a receiver. Its a no brainer to take Talib. I'm just saying if Marinelli and Barry think Jenkins can cover a receiver better they might take Jenkins. It is the corners must important attribute.

And as far as Bly, I don't miss his attitude but I sure has heck missed his play this year. Bly was our best corner last year(even though he didn't fit the system) and he would have been our best corner this year. Fisher fits the Cover 2 but Bly still plays better in a Cover 2 than Travis Fisher. Why because Bly can cover a receiver much better. You know not one of our "Cover 2" corners this year matched Blys production for 06. Bly had 3 picks in 06 which was matched by only Keith Smith(who basically was really hit or miss ,he'd get a pick but then get burnt several times) but Bly had 4 forced fumbles which wasn't matched by any of our "run support" corners this year. It wasn't even close. Plus Bly didn't get burnt all the time and he was on number 1 receivers. He had 18 PD which wasn't matched by anyone this year. Keith Smith and Wilson had the luxury of having a second year in the system as well but they were basically terrible. Bryant stepped up his play but only the first half of the season and he wasn't the same after his injury in Arizona. Bly with another year in the Cover 2 might have done well. But that being said, we had to get rid of Bly because of his attitude.

To sum it up, if he can cover betterthan Cover 2 prosepcts we better at least consider him.
I hated Bly on the team... attitude and performance.

He has a high risk/high reward mentality, and I think it's horrible to have as a CB. He'll try to jump a route or look for the easy INT, and that leaves him out of position or gives up a long TD. Green Bay - Denver... overtime... made me laugh.

I'd rather have a solid performer... someone who does his assignments, closes on the ball and doesn't miss many tackles. INTs? Yeah, whatever... they're nice, but so are 3-and-outs.

Bootland27
02-02-2008, 06:50 PM
That was released before I made my statement.

I think it has been noted that Talib was an ideal Cover 2 CB. Scott lacked a scouting report at the time, and I don't have the time to be a professional scout.

So, now I think Connor is the logical Round 1 pick and we grab Cason in round 2.

just to clarify...that isn't Scott's scouting report, its from a different site. But I agree, Connor makes the most sense in round 1. I don't know if Cason will be there in round 2 when we pick, and we may have to move up a bit. There are several teams looking for a CB in the late 1st-early 2nd.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-02-2008, 09:19 PM
I hated Bly on the team... attitude and performance.

He has a high risk/high reward mentality, and I think it's horrible to have as a CB. He'll try to jump a route or look for the easy INT, and that leaves him out of position or gives up a long TD. Green Bay - Denver... overtime... made me laugh.

I'd rather have a solid performer... someone who does his assignments, closes on the ball and doesn't miss many tackles. INTs? Yeah, whatever... they're nice, but so are 3-and-outs.

Bly did take some risks, but he made a lot of plays. Not just interceptions but pass deflections and good coverages for more than two seconds. The secondary this year never got three and outs. There were tons of long drives on this team, mainly because of the secondary. When we were risky, like in the first half of the season, we got a ton of ints and won some games. When we sat back and played it safe, teams figured out how to beat us easily. With short passes to running backs, short passes to wide receivers(and a ton of missed tackles by our secondary and LBs) and short/intermediate to tight ends.

TacticaLion
02-02-2008, 09:27 PM
Bly did take some risks, but he made a lot of plays. Not just interceptions but pass deflections and good coverages for more than two seconds. The secondary this year never got three and outs. There were tons of long drives on this team, mainly because of the secondary. When we were risky, like in the first half of the season, we got a ton of ints and won some games. When we sat back and played it safe, teams figured out how to beat us easily. With short passes to running backs, short passes to wide receivers(and a ton of missed tackles by our secondary and LBs) and short/intermediate to tight ends.You bring up a good point...

Through the first 8 games, our secondary was one of the best (in terms of takeaways - Bly's specialty - without Bly). When the DLine started to struggle, offenses had more time and made more plays. So, I guess I put it more on our struggling in the 2nd half and less on the departure of Bly.

Also, you mentioned how our secondary was "risky"... and I don't think they were. A lot of the INTs were forced with pressure or just good coverage... not jumping out of position to try to make a play.

I wish we would've taken a 3rd/Bell instead of Foster/Bell, but I'm glad we got rid of Bly.
just to clarify...that isn't Scott's scouting report, its from a different site. But I agree, Connor makes the most sense in round 1. I don't know if Cason will be there in round 2 when we pick, and we may have to move up a bit. There are several teams looking for a CB in the late 1st-early 2nd.Ahh... didn't know where it came from.

There are rumors that we're considering a 2nd for Roy. If that's the case, we could essentially take Connor in round 1 and 2 CBs in round 2... which, I think, would be great. Then, we could target DT, RB, WR and OT in some order over the next few picks.

There are also rumors that we're considering trading Rogers to Miami for Taylor. If we did that, we could take a big, strong DT in round 3 or 4 and have a great DLine. White - Redding - Rookie - Taylor... that's a great group.

Just more rambling...

TacticaLion
02-02-2008, 09:38 PM
Was looking through a few scouting reports... and came across Charles Godfrey. Projected to be a 2nd or 3rd round pick... seems like a good fit.

Charles Godfrey
Strengths:
Has excellent size with a solid frame and long arms...Outstanding timed speed...A fantastic athlete...Real quick with a burst to close...Very good ball skills...Is strong and tough...Physical and aggressive...A reliable tackler...Will deliver the big hit...Is versatile with experience at two positions...Still improving and has a huge upside.Very intriguing.

Strong player... sounds like a perfect fit for the Cover 2. Weaknesses mention that he's raw, but I think, with good coaching, he could develop into a great Cover 2 CB.

Thoughts?

TacticaLion
02-02-2008, 09:52 PM
Ok! I have an idea:

I'd like to start posing threads dedicated to an individual prospect. For example, if I think Connor is a great fit, I could post a thread as shown below:

Subj: Dan Connor / MLB / Penn State / 1st Round

You'd have to post the players Strengths/Weaknesses/Notes from either Scott Wright or another (legal) source... or both. You could also add a poll with different options (maybe 1-10, 10 being must have) and let the fans vote if he should be taken.

I think this would give those that don't have time to scout a bunch of players the opportunity to quickly see which fit the team. Any player could post one (and is encouraged to).

Any thoughts on this?

Bootland27
02-02-2008, 10:22 PM
Was looking through a few scouting reports... and came across Charles Godfrey. Projected to be a 2nd or 3rd round pick... seems like a good fit.

Very intriguing.

Strong player... sounds like a perfect fit for the Cover 2. Weaknesses mention that he's raw, but I think, with good coaching, he could develop into a great Cover 2 CB.

Thoughts?

Yep, I did a 3 round mock a while back of Connor, Chris Ellis and Charles Godfrey. I think he's worth a shot and simply oozes upside.

Bootland27
02-02-2008, 10:23 PM
Ok! I have an idea:

I'd like to start posing threads dedicated to an individual prospect. For example, if I think Connor is a great fit, I could post a thread as shown below:

Subj: Dan Connor / MLB / Penn State / 1st Round

You'd have to post the players Strengths/Weaknesses/Notes from either Scott Wright or another (legal) source... or both. You could also add a poll with different options (maybe 1-10, 10 being must have) and let the fans vote if he should be taken.

I think this would give those that don't have time to scout a bunch of players the opportunity to quickly see which fit the team. Any player could post one (and is encouraged to).

Any thoughts on this?

Love the idea.

TacticaLion
02-03-2008, 12:47 AM
Love the idea.

I put a few up... will add more when the reports are available. I'm targeting the big first day names (CBs, DEs, MLBs) and a few mid-late round players of interest.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-03-2008, 11:03 AM
You bring up a good point...

Through the first 8 games, our secondary was one of the best (in terms of takeaways - Bly's specialty - without Bly). When the DLine started to struggle, offenses had more time and made more plays. So, I guess I put it more on our struggling in the 2nd half and less on the departure of Bly.

Also, you mentioned how our secondary was "risky"... and I don't think they were. A lot of the INTs were forced with pressure or just good coverage... not jumping out of position to try to make a play.

I wish we would've taken a 3rd/Bell instead of Foster/Bell, but I'm glad we got rid of Bly.

In hindsight, I wish we would have just gotten a 2nd rounder for Bly. Duckett could have filled in based on what Bell did(which was very little) and Foster was terrible all year.

We were riskier in the first half of the season. I think that was due to the QBs and offenses we faced. We didn't have to worry about McCown,Griese,Jackson(Week 2),Garcia(can't really throw a deep ball),Cutler/Ramsey. But when we played McNabb and Washingtons O, they torched us deep.

It was pretty evident when we played Minnesota the second time. We played it safe and also didn't get pressure, so Jackson was able to pass very successfully. Mainly because we were worried about the run game. Basically when we played a team that had a legitimate threat of run and pass, we played it safe, didn't get a pass rush and gave up a ton of yards and points.

I think that is why we need to go corner in the first round. We need the best probablility of a "good prospect" that should be able to play well against good offenses like Bly could.

TacticaLion
02-03-2008, 12:06 PM
It was pretty evident when we played Minnesota the second time. We played it safe and also didn't get pressure, so Jackson was able to pass very successfully. Mainly because we were worried about the run game. Basically when we played a team that had a legitimate threat of run and pass, we played it safe, didn't get a pass rush and gave up a ton of yards and points.

I think that is why we need to go corner in the first round. We need the best probablility of a "good prospect" that should be able to play well against good offenses like Bly could.

I see what your saying. The first time we played Minn, we forced them into 4 INTs... which (I guess) was more on Jackson and less on our defense.

I've said this in a few threads now... but, which 1st round CBs are a great fit for the Cover 2? Having a hard time finding one.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-03-2008, 03:19 PM
Draft is BPA. We don't run Cover 2 on every play. Sometimes we have to man up. I want the corner that Marinelli and Barry believe can stick with a wide receiver the best in man and zone coverage. In 2006, that was Dre Bly for us and he would have been in 2007 as well. I want the player with the best ball skills. As I said in the Dan Connor thread, lack of run support doesn't automatically cross him off my list. We have a D-line, LBs and a strong safety that should worry about the run game.

I want a corner that can stick with a wide receiver and cause an incompletion. If he's stickikng with a wide receiver, he should be able to tackle him. Wide receivers are not nearly as tough to tackle as running backs. Running backs have a full head of steam running at you. Most corners can't tackle running backs really well and if they have too, its because our LBs and De's can't shed blocks well. Wide outs have just caught a ball, possibly stopped and our much easier to tackle if you are playing close coverage. Give me a corner that can stay with Driver,Steve Smith,Galloway,Marvin/Reggie/Andre Johnson. That is what we need the most for next year and beyond.

If tackling by corners and run support is your first priority. Put Gerald Alexander at corner then.

Scotty D
02-03-2008, 07:33 PM
Who gets more value in a trade? Chad Johnson or Roy Williams?

Xiomera
02-03-2008, 07:37 PM
Who gets more value in a trade? Chad Johnson or Roy Williams?

What is Johnson's contract status?

Roy is less of a trouble maker, though both can be pretty damn annoying with their antics on the field.

Scotty D
02-03-2008, 08:26 PM
What is Johnson's contract status?

Roy is less of a trouble maker, though both can be pretty damn annoying with their antics on the field.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad_Johnson

On April 20, 2006, Johnson signed a contract extension. The deal, which pays Johnson an additional $35.5 million, will last up to 2011.

Xiomera
02-03-2008, 09:16 PM
That's a lot of money. I'd rather have Roy as he is less of a headache. But CJ is probably the better receiver.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-03-2008, 09:34 PM
I understand Roy celebrates first downs. But he doesn't really celebrate tds. He usually gives the ball to a young kid. Donald Driver does the same first down celebration. I like the emotion.

And right now Roy is still better than CJ.

TacticaLion
02-03-2008, 09:38 PM
I understand Roy celebrates first downs. But he doesn't really celebrate tds. He usually gives the ball to a young kid. Donald Driver does the same first down celebration. I like the emotion.

And right now Roy is still better than CJ.85 is a more dominant player than Roy is. Roy's contract is less and he's less of a concern (off the field), but CJ is the more talented player.

TacticaLion
02-03-2008, 09:47 PM
Draft is BPA. We don't run Cover 2 on every play. Sometimes we have to man up. I want the corner that Marinelli and Barry believe can stick with a wide receiver the best in man and zone coverage. In 2006, that was Dre Bly for us and he would have been in 2007 as well. I want the player with the best ball skills. As I said in the Dan Connor thread, lack of run support doesn't automatically cross him off my list. We have a D-line, LBs and a strong safety that should worry about the run game.

I want a corner that can stick with a wide receiver and cause an incompletion. If he's stickikng with a wide receiver, he should be able to tackle him. Wide receivers are not nearly as tough to tackle as running backs. Running backs have a full head of steam running at you. Most corners can't tackle running backs really well and if they have too, its because our LBs and De's can't shed blocks well. Wide outs have just caught a ball, possibly stopped and our much easier to tackle if you are playing close coverage. Give me a corner that can stay with Driver,Steve Smith,Galloway,Marvin/Reggie/Andre Johnson. That is what we need the most for next year and beyond.

If tackling by corners and run support is your first priority. Put Gerald Alexander at corner then.

First of all, the draft is not BPA. Many think the 1st round pick is BPA, but ours isn't this year. The BPA available with our 15th pick this year might be a RB, QB, WR, OT or DE... but we probably won't take him.

Secondly, I don't want a player that doesn't fit our scheme. If the CB isn't a reliable tackler or isn't good in zone coverage, we should not (and probably will not) take him. The Cover 2 needs physical CBs that can tackle and support the run... why draft anything else?

Instead, why not take another player (that fits the defense) in round 1 and grab a few of those perfect fits in round 2-3?

And, we need Alexander at S... he's a great fit there and wont be moved.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-04-2008, 12:53 PM
First of all, the draft is not BPA. Many think the 1st round pick is BPA, but ours isn't this year. The BPA available with our 15th pick this year might be a RB, QB, WR, OT or DE... but we probably won't take him.

Millens draft are always BPA. Hence Calvin Johnson last year instead of an actual need, Mike Williams in 05. A corner could very well be BPA at 15. I could also see OT or Connor at 15 as BPA in Marinelli and Millens eyes.

Secondly, I don't want a player that doesn't fit our scheme. If the CB isn't a reliable tackler or isn't good in zone coverage, we should not (and probably will not) take him. The Cover 2 needs physical CBs that can tackle and support the run... why draft anything else?

I agree if he's not good in coverage then we don't take him. Man or zone. I want the best cover corner in both man and zone coverage. Because we will have to run both. Tackling a running back is just not a top priority for me. I want my LBs,DEs and safeties to do that. Thats their job.

Instead, why not take another player (that fits the defense) in round 1 and grab a few of those perfect fits in round 2-3?

Because the perfect fits, might not have the same ability to cover a wide receiver, same size and speed which you can't teach. You can teach someone like Talib/McKelvin how to play zone coverage and how to have better technique. I think there is a great drop off talent wise at corner in Round 1 compared to Round 2 than there is at LB with Connor/Lofton/Mayo/Wheeler. Corner are heavily taken in Round 1. MLBs are not.

And, we need Alexander at S... he's a great fit there and wont be moved.

I agree that Alexander shouldn't be moved. I was just pointing out that if tackling is your first priority you might as well have 4 safeties on the field in the secondary.

detroit4life
02-04-2008, 06:02 PM
unless we took kenny phillips who i think will be a great player then alexander isnt going to be moved. I also doubt we take kennyphillips

TacticaLion
02-05-2008, 12:25 AM
I think I'm having a slight change of heart about the draft.

I still want to target the best MLB at 15. But, if Connor is either a) gone, or b) has a horrible showing at the combine, I'd rather take the best DE (that fits the defense). At this point, that looks like Harvey.

It's not that I don't have faith in White, IAF and DeVries... it's that I don't believe each of them will remain injury-free for the entire season. And, when one goes down, we need to have an answer.

A draft like Harvey, Wheeler, Jackson makes a lot of sense... but I'd rather make some trades/moves and take 2 players in round 2 (Wheeler and Lee/Godfrey/Flowers/Cason). THAT would be a draft to build one.

We'll see. I don't know if the team wants to draft a DE... but, if we don't make any other changes, it sounds like a good idea.

Brothgar
02-05-2008, 12:39 AM
I think I'm having a slight change of heart about the draft.

I still want to target the best MLB at 15. But, if Connor is either a) gone, or b) has a horrible showing at the combine, I'd rather take the best DE (that fits the defense). At this point, that looks like Harvey.

It's not that I don't have faith in White, IAF and DeVries... it's that I don't believe each of them will remain injury-free for the entire season. And, when one goes down, we need to have an answer.

A draft like Harvey, Wheeler, Jackson makes a lot of sense... but I'd rather make some trades/moves and take 2 players in round 2 (Wheeler and Lee/Godfrey/Flowers/Cason). THAT would be a draft to build one.

We'll see. I don't know if the team wants to draft a DE... but, if we don't make any other changes, it sounds like a good idea.

If we are confident in the abilities of IAF and DeVries then we will not draft a DE in round 1. Because then we have (on the LE) Harvey IAF and Jared Davries as a just in case heath guy. The Lions can't afford to draft "Depth" (although he is a starter) in the first round if on the other hand a guy like Quintin Groves was there in the 2nd round I might imagine taking him dependent on who was left on the board.

TacticaLion
02-05-2008, 12:52 AM
If we are confident in the abilities of IAF and DeVries then we will not draft a DE in round 1. Because then we have (on the LE) Harvey IAF and Jared Davries as a just in case heath guy. The Lions can't afford to draft "Depth" (although he is a starter) in the first round if on the other hand a guy like Quintin Groves was there in the 2nd round I might imagine taking him dependent on who was left on the board.

I agree that they probably wont... but they should.

The pass rush is the foundation of a Cover 2 defense. If one of these players gets injured, we really don't have an answer... and, if we can't rush the passer, none of the rookie CBs we draft will be able to consistently stop solid NFL WRs.

I think the Giants' defense made me realize that we should target a DE. They've got Strahan, Osi and Tuck... three great players at the position. We've got White, IAF and DeVries... a good player, a young player and an OK player. If one of those players goes down, our average pass rush drops to non-existent.

Also, we wont draft Groves. Marinelli would never take a player with these weaknesses:
Weaknesses:
Extremely inconsistent and lacks a great motor...Undersized and doesn't have the ideal bulk that you look for..Isn't stout at the point...Marginal instincts, awareness and recognition...Limited pass rush repertoire...Too aggressive at times...Slow off the line...Has trouble shedding blocks...Poor technique..A questionable work ethic.
I've been saying that we can find a pure pass rusher later in the draft... and we probably could. But, if there isn't a player this year that the coaches think could fill in and make an impact, Harvey is a good choice.

Addict
02-05-2008, 07:29 AM
We should definately look at the secondary, but I'd be happy if we draft defense in general. Whether that's DE, LB or CB doesn't really matter, there's holes all over the place and I really want Millen to start adressing those holes.

Iamcanadian
02-05-2008, 09:35 AM
I had hoped Harvey would be there at 15 but lately I seen a lot of predictions that have him going higher so likley we won't have a shot at him.

IAF was drafted at a time when Detroit didn't know if Redding would sign a long term deal and nobody knew what condition Rogers would report in. He can play DE for a 3-4 team or a basic 4-3 team but in a Cover 2 defense he is a DT period. If we open the season with IAF and DeVries as having to play DE for us, our defense will be less than last year's.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-05-2008, 11:14 AM
We should definately look at the secondary, but I'd be happy if we draft defense in general. Whether that's DE, LB or CB doesn't really matter, there's holes all over the place and I really want Millen to start adressing those holes.


Exactly. If you zone in on one position you really want or one player you really want, Millen will disappoint you. As long as its defense, I don't think we can go wrong.

TacticaLion
02-05-2008, 11:30 AM
He can play DE for a 3-4 team or a basic 4-3 team but in a Cover 2 defense he is a DT period. Wow... how many games have you watched IAF play? The 6 games he got in this year (and didn't start in)? His main weakness were that he was raw... you can't judge him after one year (in which he played 6 games).

You always do that... make factual statements that lack fact.

So, tell me, IAC. Why can't IAF play DE... period?

Addict
02-05-2008, 01:41 PM
Exactly. If you zone in on one position you really want or one player you really want, Millen will disappoint you. As long as its defense, I don't think we can go wrong.

Well I'd be in doubt if we got a safety... I know Phillips is awesome and our safety tandem isn't great, it's just not bad, which is more than we can say for DE, OLB, MLB and CB... so there is some things I'd be dissapointed with.

I think it's better for all our sakes not to get excited about one specific player.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-05-2008, 06:47 PM
Well I'd be in doubt if we got a safety... I know Phillips is awesome and our safety tandem isn't great, it's just not bad, which is more than we can say for DE, OLB, MLB and CB... so there is some things I'd be dissapointed with.

I think it's better for all our sakes not to get excited about one specific player.

Yeah I agree. Safety would disappoint me since we have Bullocks, Alexander and Kennedy. And DT would disappoint me because there are none worth it at 15.

Addict
02-06-2008, 03:43 AM
Yeah I agree. Safety would disappoint me since we have Bullocks, Alexander and Kennedy. And DT would disappoint me because there are none worth it at 15.

except if one great one falls. But I agree, one OLB position, DT and S are the only positions on D where we're at least decent.

wingboy2999
02-06-2008, 02:34 PM
I don't know if people agree with our mock draft moves. Roy and Rogers are gone. And now we have our original 1st and 4 2nds. We will be able to bring the defensive help that we sorely need. So we can look at, basically, every position that we have discussed needing.

TacticaLion
02-06-2008, 02:37 PM
I don't know if people agree with our mock draft moves. Roy and Rogers are gone. And now we have our original 1st and 4 2nds. We will be able to bring the defensive help that we sorely need. So we can look at, basically, every position that we have discussed needing.

Wait wait wait wait... we've got 1 1st and 4 2nds? Which?

I'm interested...

Brothgar
02-06-2008, 02:38 PM
I don't know if people agree with our mock draft moves. Roy and Rogers are gone. And now we have our original 1st and 4 2nds. We will be able to bring the defensive help that we sorely need. So we can look at, basically, every position that we have discussed needing.

Thank you I have been saying this for a while.

wingboy2999
02-06-2008, 02:49 PM
All our picks

#15 - Detroit
#34 - Detroit (via StL)
#36 - Detroit (via Atl through Cle)
#46 - Detroit
#57 - Detroit (via Hou through Cle)
#77 - Detroit
#139 - Detroit

So we have 6 first day picks.

Bootland27
02-06-2008, 03:12 PM
All our picks

#15 - Detroit
#34 - Detroit (via StL)
#36 - Detroit (via Atl through Cle)
#46 - Detroit
#57 - Detroit (via Hou through Cle)
#77 - Detroit
#139 - Detroit

So we have 6 first day picks.

From dealing Roy and Big baby?

wingboy2999
02-06-2008, 03:23 PM
Yes sir...

Brothgar
02-06-2008, 03:42 PM
All our picks

#15 - Detroit
#34 - Detroit (via StL)
#36 - Detroit (via Atl through Cle)
#46 - Detroit
#57 - Detroit (via Hou through Cle)
#77 - Detroit
#139 - Detroit

So we have 6 first day picks.

Might I ask how?

WMD
02-06-2008, 03:43 PM
We have five 1st Day picks.. It's only Rounds 1 and 2 now.

What is your guys' opinion of us adding a Safety, like Kenny Phillips, at number 15? He'd almost instantly be our best Secondary player, and our secondary sucks.

WMD
02-06-2008, 03:44 PM
Might I ask how?

Shaun Rogers/4th Rounder for #34
Roy Williams for #36 and #57

TacticaLion
02-06-2008, 03:46 PM
We have five 1st Day picks.. It's only Rounds 1 and 2 now.

What is your guys' opinion of us adding a Safety, like Kenny Phillips, at number 15? He'd almost instantly be our best Secondary player, and our secondary sucks.I don't want him. We've got Alexander (solid) and Bullocks (also solid). Our MLB/CBs? Horrible. Too many other positions need help.

Hey, Wing... when is the draft?

Brothgar
02-06-2008, 03:56 PM
We have five 1st Day picks.. It's only Rounds 1 and 2 now.

What is your guys' opinion of us adding a Safety, like Kenny Phillips, at number 15? He'd almost instantly be our best Secondary player, and our secondary sucks.

I'd pass but I'd be willing to bet that we could get a good price from Dallas if Philips was there at 15 Probobally like the #20 and a 2nd round pick

Addict
02-06-2008, 04:04 PM
Shaun Rogers/4th Rounder for #34
Roy Williams for #36 and #57

hell that works for me, five first-day (1st & 2nd) picks is one hell of a building block if used correc-- oh wait...

http://www.mlive.com/cgi-bin/prxy/weblog_photos/nph-cache.cgi/cache=3000;/mtlogs/mlive_thebenchwarmer/images/millen.jpg

nah we're still screwed.

Scotty D
02-06-2008, 04:15 PM
With that many 1st day picks, the first rounder could be more of a BPA move. I don't want to say to much, but I would maybe look at a RB.

Addict
02-06-2008, 04:17 PM
With that many 1st day picks, the first rounder could be more of a BPA move. I don't want to say to much, but I would maybe look at a RB.

I'm not gonna say it but I think you guys know what I would say if I was actually gonna say it. But since I'm not gonna say it I'm just gonna think it really really hard and hopefully somebody else will say it because... well I'm not gonna say it.

wingboy2999
02-06-2008, 04:22 PM
We have five 1st Day picks.. It's only Rounds 1 and 2 now.

What is your guys' opinion of us adding a Safety, like Kenny Phillips, at number 15? He'd almost instantly be our best Secondary player, and our secondary sucks.

We'd instantly turn a so-so position [S] into a strength.

Addict
02-06-2008, 04:40 PM
We'd instantly turn a so-so position [S] into a strength.

fantastic, because that concept worked so well on offense! (see: WR)

wingboy2999
02-06-2008, 04:55 PM
fantastic, because that concept worked so well on offense! (see: WR)

For that, Mendenhall is not gonna be drafted by us.

Brothgar
02-06-2008, 04:57 PM
Mock Draft with the combination of both trading Roy and Roger

15. By some miracle Kenny Phillips drops to #15 and Dallas trades us the #20 and the 2nd round pick for Phillips.

20. Dan Connor - With Both Otah and Harvey likely to be gone and the deep deep CB class this seems to be the best pick.

34 (Via St Louis) - Gosder Cherilus - We need to address RT this draft and I think that Cherilus had a great showing at the senior bowl.

36. Chris Johnson RB - Johnson will be a great change of pace RB for TJ Duckett and will be a crazy return man as well.

46.Phillip Merling DE - He is the guy we are looking for in DE that big pass rusher.

57. Antoine Cason CB (or Best CB available)

59. Frank Okam DT (or best DT available) - With Rogers gone we will need to fill that void with a good DT. I like Okam (which generally means he falls through the draft but ultimately over plays his draft possition)

77. Owen Schmitt FB - Remember when we had Cory Schleshinger? Yeah we need that kind of FB again IMO and Owne Schmitt is that kind of FB.

139. Chevis Jackson CB - A great fit for the cover 2 has great instincts but a 4.6 40 at the combine (assuming of course) will drop his stock till the 5th round

detroit4life
02-06-2008, 05:12 PM
Mock Draft with the combination of both trading Roy and Roger

15. By some miracle Kenny Phillips drops to #15 and Dallas trades us the #20 and the 2nd round pick for Phillips.

20. Dan Connor - With Both Otah and Harvey likely to be gone and the deep deep CB class this seems to be the best pick.

34 (Via St Louis) - Gosder Cherilus - We need to address RT this draft and I think that Cherilus had a great showing at the senior bowl.

36. Chris Johnson RB - Johnson will be a great change of pace RB for TJ Duckett and will be a crazy return man as well.

46.Phillip Merling DE - He is the guy we are looking for in DE that big pass rusher.

57. Antoine Cason CB (or Best CB available)

59. Frank Okam DT (or best DT available) - With Rogers gone we will need to fill that void with a good DT. I like Okam (which generally means he falls through the draft but ultimately over plays his draft possition)

77. Owen Schmitt FB - Remember when we had Cory Schleshinger? Yeah we need that kind of FB again IMO and Owne Schmitt is that kind of FB.

139. Chevis Jackson CB - A great fit for the cover 2 has great instincts but a 4.6 40 at the combine (assuming of course) will drop his stock till the 5th round

i like all your picks except for owen schmitt. I just dont see FB used nearly as much now a days. I think Jon Bradley fills all we need at that position and we could adress a much more imprtant position that FB in day one. If we deal Roy it might be smart to take a WR or we could adress many other positions on defense that would benifit the team much more

TacticaLion
02-06-2008, 07:42 PM
i like all your picks except for owen schmitt. I just dont see FB used nearly as much now a days. I think Jon Bradley fills all we need at that position and we could adress a much more imprtant position that FB in day one. If we deal Roy it might be smart to take a WR or we could adress many other positions on defense that would benifit the team much moreI agree with WR.

I like the thought of trading down in the 1st round... IF Harvey and Stewart are off the board. If they are, we could trade down, grab Connor and use our 2nd round picks to address other positions.

For DT: I think Pat Sims and Trevor Laws are the best options. Either could be had in round 2.

CB: Patrick Lee is a great fit and talent... a fast, physical CB with great size. I'd love to take him at either 34 or 36. Patrick Lee and Chevis Jackson would make for an ideal CB group.

DE: There are some great pass-rushing options in rounds 3-4-5. Jason Jones, Cliff Avery and Tommy Blake could all be had later and could make a big impact.

When is the draft?

wingboy2999
02-06-2008, 08:16 PM
Starts Friday.

Brothgar
02-06-2008, 08:48 PM
i like all your picks except for owen schmitt. I just dont see FB used nearly as much now a days. I think Jon Bradley fills all we need at that position and we could adress a much more imprtant position that FB in day one. If we deal Roy it might be smart to take a WR or we could adress many other positions on defense that would benifit the team much more

That is true but I think that is something that should be changed think of all the great rbs. (Shaun Alexander, LT, Emmit Smith, Larry Johnson, Adrian Peterson, I could go on) one thing in common with all these players is a great blocking fullback. (SA had Mack Strong, LT has Lorenzo Neal, LJ and AP had/has Tony Richardson, Emmit had Moose Johnson). When you run the ball it is always great to have that FB run in that hole and give who would be the first guy to hit you a bust in the nose. The FB is right up there with kicker as one of the most under rated positions on a football team.

Brothgar
02-06-2008, 08:49 PM
Ha ha ha I thought he ment the real draft ah I'm stupid

TacticaLion
02-06-2008, 08:58 PM
Starts Friday.

Cool... I wanna see it unwind.

Addict
02-07-2008, 02:55 AM
For that, Mendenhall is not gonna be drafted by us.

what did I do?

TacticaLion
02-07-2008, 03:05 AM
what did I do?

Rule 45-29b: excessive ninjaing.

Addict
02-07-2008, 03:13 AM
Rule 45-29b: excessive ninjaing.

lol you read the rules?

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/funny-picture-lolcats-u-haz-no-girlfriend.jpg

TacticaLion
02-07-2008, 03:49 AM
lol you read the rules?

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/funny-picture-lolcats-u-haz-no-girlfriend.jpg

Haha... they get upgraded to "Wife" after you marry em.

wingboy2999
02-07-2008, 08:22 PM
If you guys didn't see, we got the #4 overall pick.

detroit4life
02-07-2008, 08:49 PM
If you guys didn't see, we got the #4 overall pick.

wow well my vote is gholston but jake long would be awesome as well

WMD
02-07-2008, 08:57 PM
wow well my vote is gholston but jake long would be awesome as well

Ehh.. we're thinking Darren McFadden since we traded away Kevin Jones.

Bootland27
02-07-2008, 08:58 PM
If you guys didn't see, we got the #4 overall pick.

Damn, you guys just ripped off the KC Brass.

detroit4life
02-07-2008, 09:06 PM
Ehh.. we're thinking Darren McFadden since we traded away Kevin Jones.

i think id rather have a DE like gholston or a OT liek Long and a RB at 15 or in the second round. We could adress our two biggest needs at DE and OT with a great player.

Weve talked about a RB tandom of duckett and a FA or rookie slasher type RB why turn away from that now? That RB tandem would be good for us and we can shore up either our Dline which is huge for our defense or OT which would make it even easier to put a lesser RB than mcfadden back there and still be productive

TacticaLion
02-07-2008, 09:37 PM
Wow... the #4. At first, I was against the thought of it... I liked the idea of having 4 2nd round picks.

But... wow. A few drafts I'd like:

Draft A

1.4 - Chris Long
1.15 - Stewart/Mendenhall
2.14 - Philip Wheeler

*** Trade pick 2.25 for 2 3rd round picks ***

3a - Chevis Jackson
3b - Laws/Moore/Bryant

An elite pass-rusher, a stud RB (especially if Stewart falls), a playmaker at MLB and a true Cover 2 CB. Laws probably wont be there, but Bryant should and is a great fit at NT.

I think trading down for more picks is necessary. I'd rather have Chevis Jackson and an ideal NT than just Flowers or Cason.

Draft B

1.4 - Darren McFadden
1.15 - Dan Connor
2.14 - Pat Sims

*** Trade pick 2.25 for 2 3rd round picks ***

3a - Chevis Jackson
3b - Jones/Avril/Blake

A pure pass-rusher can be found in later rounds, and either Jones, Avril or Blake could get the job done. Sims is a beast at DT, Connor is a top prospect at MLB and DMC is... DMC.

Not sure which I'd want more.

wingboy2999
02-08-2008, 11:21 AM
We traded KJ because we figured he was damaged goods for us with the foot and leg injuries. Always banged up.

TacticaLion
02-08-2008, 11:23 AM
We traded KJ because we figured he was damaged goods for us with the foot and leg injuries. Always banged up.

Yeah... and on the last year of his contract.

Have you thought about trading out of the #4 spot (Chris Long is gone), dropping down a few picks and taking Stewart? We could grab extra picks by doing that.

Addict
02-08-2008, 11:39 AM
Yeah... and on the last year of his contract.

Have you thought about trading out of the #4 spot (Chris Long is gone), dropping down a few picks and taking Stewart? We could grab extra picks by doing that.

I don't want stewart.
A) He's overrated I think
B) His name is Jon Stewart, which confuses me since I can't hear that name without chuckling (damn you, Daily Show!)
C) There's other priorities, we could grab mendenhall later on.

TacticaLion
02-08-2008, 11:48 AM
I don't want stewart.
A) He's overrated I think
B) His name is Jon Stewart, which confuses me since I can't hear that name without chuckling (damn you, Daily Show!)
C) There's other priorities, we could grab mendenhall later on.

Mendenhall... at 15? He wont make it out of the 1st round... so I don't know where you expect to grab him.

Addict
02-08-2008, 11:56 AM
Mendenhall... at 15? He wont make it out of the 1st round... so I don't know where you expect to grab him.

at fifteen sounds decent. Well we could even trade down a bit from fifteen to the early twenties... he'll probably be around

TacticaLion
02-08-2008, 12:11 PM
at fifteen sounds decent. Well we could even trade down a bit from fifteen to the early twenties... he'll probably be around

Then who do we take at #4? Gholston?

If we trade down from 15, I wouldn't hate the pick.

Bootland27
02-08-2008, 01:12 PM
http://bp0.blogger.com/_7OC0YbG2fek/Rq7hr9oB9kI/AAAAAAAABeg/_vqVVjFNgv4/s400/Dorsey.jpg

Damn didn't see this comin.

Bootland27
02-08-2008, 01:16 PM
Strengths:
Dorsey is a high-character guy who is a coach’s dream. He puts the interests of the team above his own personal concerns and is all about winning. He’s compact, strong, and lightning quick. It often seems as if he’s moving before the center snaps the ball. Against the run, he’s a true plugger, taking up two blockers consistently and erasing holes for the ball-carrier. He’s able to stay low and create power from his legs and use his arms effectively to keep blockers at bay. He moves well laterally and can get down the line in pursuit. As a pass-rusher, Dorsey’s quickness allows him to penetrate the gaps and his strength allows him to overpower the offensive linemen. There are very few NFL blockers currently that could handle Dorsey one-on-one. Dorsey is a team leader, both vocally and demonstrably.

Weaknesses:

Some feel that Dorsey is a product of the LSU defensive system, the same one that has produced high draft picks in Claude Wroten and Kyle Williams (two average NFL players) in the past couple years. Dorsey himself is surrounded by big, athletic players as part of another outstanding defensive line. Dorsey’s injuries during his senior year (sprained knee and lower back pain) will make his pre-Draft medical evaluations very important. Despite his athletic prowess and strength, his numbers as a pass-rusher aren’t eye-popping.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-08-2008, 01:27 PM
You guys did all that trading and gave up Roy(who can still be resigned if we win next year or franchised and then traded next offseason),KJ, and Rogers to essentially replace Shaun Rogers a nose tackle with an under tackle when we have Redding under a huge contract already.

wingboy2999
02-08-2008, 01:27 PM
See, that is why we drafted him. We want a coach's dream to be the best player on our D-Line, the place our defense depends on. Rogers is the opposite.

wingboy2999
02-08-2008, 01:32 PM
You guys did all that trading and gave up Roy(who can still be resigned if we win next year or franchised and then traded next offseason),KJ, and Rogers to essentially replace Shaun Rogers a nose tackle with an under tackle when we have Redding under a huge contract already.

We've gone over it. Done is done. I don't feel like going into a giant biotch fest again.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-08-2008, 01:39 PM
But giving up 3 of our best players just to replace Rogers, who is a very good player when he plays. The guy you are replacing him with is just as costly as Rogers too. A better second tier guy to spell Rogers is all that is needed.

Plus Dorsey is out of postion.

I think I'd rather see Millen take another receiver than that.

Bootland27
02-08-2008, 01:58 PM
In a nutshell you traded away

Roy Williams
Shaun Rogers
#77
#108
Kevin Jones
Kalimba Edwards (throw-in)

FOR

Glenn Dorsey
#57

Scotty D
02-08-2008, 02:01 PM
I kind of agree. I liked it when you had #15 and four second rounders.

TacticaLion
02-08-2008, 02:08 PM
I think we should now dangle Dorsey over teams who need a DT.

For example, the Bucs: trade them Dorsey for an array of picks (1st, 2nd and 3rd?) and a player (Kelly?). Red Bryant is a good NT and can be had in round 3.

Addict
02-08-2008, 03:03 PM
why did we not get Gholston? He's a brutal 4-3 DE!

NMUBurner22
02-08-2008, 03:07 PM
why did we not get Gholston? He's a brutal 4-3 DE!

He made Jake Long look silly in that game this year.

Addict
02-08-2008, 03:08 PM
He made Jake Long look silly in that game this year.

all the more reason.

Brothgar
02-08-2008, 05:56 PM
I am not going to hang the GMs on the Gallows yet (although I like all of you would rather have had 4 2nd round picks) They now have 6 picks to address the following positions ILB, CB, RT, BDE, RB, KR. I even think they actually got decent value here the #4 pick in the draft for two 2nds a 3rd and a 4th? Not really that bad. If we can land Chevis Jackson in the 5th this turns out to be a great draft.

There is going to still be a great pick at 15 (Otah or Stewart) and may trade down.

Chris Johnson, OT, CB, or DE (depends on value) # 15 2nd round.

There will be Value at ILB or DE with our 2nd 2nd round pick.

I bet Mike Hart will be there at the 5th round or Chevis Jackson leaving one hole left its not as horrible as it seems.

TacticaLion
02-08-2008, 06:31 PM
Stewart was taken with pick #15.

I think we should trade Dorsey for picks/players and draft a true NT in the 3rd round.

Addict
02-08-2008, 06:44 PM
Stewart was taken with pick #15.

I think we should trade Dorsey for picks/players and draft a true NT in the 3rd round.

NT? Why we play a 4-3...

wingboy2999
02-08-2008, 07:28 PM
I was trying to trade down but they made the pick for me....I got pissed off enough about it.

And when we got offered the trade for that #4 pick, we had to take it.

wingboy2999
02-08-2008, 07:29 PM
In a nutshell you traded away

Roy Williams
Shaun Rogers
#77
#108
Kevin Jones
Kalimba Edwards (throw-in)

FOR

Glenn Dorsey
#57

Yeah, because we just aren't going to make any other picks at all.

TacticaLion
02-08-2008, 07:30 PM
NT? Why we play a 4-3...

The Cover 2 still needs a NT... an UT and a NT. Redding is an UT, whereas Rogers is an (ideal) NT.

Brothgar
02-08-2008, 07:43 PM
In a nutshell you traded away

Roy Williams
Shaun Rogers
#77
#108
Kevin Jones
Kalimba Edwards (throw-in)

FOR

Glenn Dorsey
#57

I say quit your biotchin y'all had a chance to submit an application to be the GM or co-GM but didn't or they were chosen above you.

TacticaLion
02-08-2008, 07:57 PM
I say quit your biotchin y'all had a chance to submit an application to be the GM or co-GM but didn't or they were chosen above you.

Come now... they've been posting the different changes they've made on the forums. If they don't want critique/criticism, they shouldn't post it.

Regardless, we should all be able to say how we feel about it.

wingboy2999
02-08-2008, 08:12 PM
Is it really that big of a deal? For all we know Rogers may get cut anyway. So atleast we got something. And that deal for the #4 fell into our lap. We didn't go looking for it, it was offered to us so we figured, hey, why not? We had deals to move down from #15 but then people backed out.... and then Jbond picked for us before I was ready. Whatever.

TacticaLion
02-08-2008, 09:04 PM
Is it really that big of a deal? For all we know Rogers may get cut anyway. So atleast we got something. And that deal for the #4 fell into our lap. We didn't go looking for it, it was offered to us so we figured, hey, why not? We had deals to move down from #15 but then people backed out.... and then Jbond picked for us before I was ready. Whatever.

Don't take offense to it, Wing... the mock looks solid so far. We have Dorsey and a stud RB with two 2nd round picks remaining. I kinda liked having 4 2nd round picks, but, if Dorsey is as good as he's supposed to be, it's worth it.

If we can, somehow, finish with 2 CBs and a MLB, the mock will be great.

Xiomera
02-08-2008, 09:51 PM
I like the mock so far. And considering that all the OT's went higher than expected and Harvey was gone by 15, it looks a lot better.

DT and RB were not the needs we expected to fill first, but there is no denying we got some huge impact talent at positions we stood to upgrade significantly at. Out D-Line looks pretty nice even without a stud DE opposite of White.

And Stewart gives us that top, young runner to build balance the offense.

If we can add a MLB and CB in round two, we will walk away in great shape. 5th rounder can be used to grab a Return man, likely a WR.

TacticaLion
02-08-2008, 10:10 PM
I like the mock so far. And considering that all the OT's went higher than expected and Harvey was gone by 15, it looks a lot better.

DT and RB were not the needs we expected to fill first, but there is no denying we got some huge impact talent at positions we stood to upgrade significantly at. Out D-Line looks pretty nice even without a stud DE opposite of White.

And Stewart gives us that top, young runner to build balance the offense.

If we can add a MLB and CB in round two, we will walk away in great shape. 5th rounder can be used to grab a Return man, likely a WR.
I agree.

I'd like to find a way to get an additional 3rd rounder... take Chevis Jackson (I think a team will take him in the 4th). With a CB and MLB in the 2nd and Chevis in the 3rd... beautiful draft.

On that note: how can we get a 3rd? Who could we move?

wingboy2999
02-08-2008, 10:36 PM
Thank you Xio. We were trying to trade down as well but it couldn't happen because of people jumping the gun. It's obvious that whatever we could have gotten for trading down would have been worth it because Mendenhall and Stewart would have been there in the low 20s.

Argh.

wingboy2999
02-08-2008, 10:36 PM
I agree.

I'd like to find a way to get an additional 3rd rounder... take Chevis Jackson (I think a team will take him in the 4th). With a CB and MLB in the 2nd and Chevis in the 3rd... beautiful draft.

On that note: how can we get a 3rd? Who could we move?

I don't know if it is possible to move down in the 2nd and get a 3rd. More likely to move out of the 2nd altogether.

Bootland27
02-08-2008, 10:36 PM
I was trying to trade down but they made the pick for me....I got pissed off enough about it.

And when we got offered the trade for that #4 pick, we had to take it.

How much time did you have left when they made the pick for you?

Bootland27
02-08-2008, 10:37 PM
I say quit your biotchin y'all had a chance to submit an application to be the GM or co-GM but didn't or they were chosen above you.

What the hell is wrong with constructive criticism?

wingboy2999
02-08-2008, 10:39 PM
How much time did you have left when they made the pick for you?

1 hr 10 minutes or so. I guess WMD sent in a big board if I was not around. But I made a post saying I was going to be back before my time ran out and I was trying to make a trade. However, Jbond didn't take the time to go read the thread and just immediately read the PM and made the pick. He said he would have deleted the pick but by then, it was too late because everyone already saw the pick and knew who I wanted. So we'd be screwed. Everyone had moved on and the possibility of a trade was killed.

Bootland27
02-08-2008, 10:43 PM
1 hr 10 minutes or so. I guess WMD sent in a big board if I was not around. But I made a post saying I was going to be back before my time ran out and I was trying to make a trade. However, Jbond didn't take the time to go read the thread and just immediately read the PM and made the pick. He said he would have deleted the pick but by then, it was too late because everyone already saw the pick and knew who I wanted. So we'd be screwed. Everyone had moved on and the possibility of a trade was killed.

Dude, that blows.....and it wasn't even your fault. I would've bitched at JBOND saying that there was plenty of time left and you were engaged in serious discussions with another team.

wingboy2999
02-08-2008, 10:46 PM
Yeah, trust me, I did. But like I said. When the pick got made, it tipped my hand. So it wasn't worth it. And because the pick got made, everyone was in the "omg omg omg omg let's go!!!!" mode. So like I said... screwed.

Bootland27
02-08-2008, 10:51 PM
Yeah, trust me, I did. But like I said. When the pick got made, it tipped my hand. So it wasn't worth it. And because the pick got made, everyone was in the "omg omg omg omg let's go!!!!" mode. So like I said... screwed.

Is there any possible way he can make up for his blunder??? You could've potentially added another 2nd or 3rd had he not ****** up.

wingboy2999
02-08-2008, 10:54 PM
Eh, whatever. WMD did send in a big board but I posted around 6 saying I was going to be back in time to make my pick. And then I sent out more messages around 6:40.

TacticaLion
02-09-2008, 12:53 AM
We've still got Tatum Bell, right (in the mock)?

Maybe we can work out a deal with him... trade him and Boss Bailey for a 3rd?

Then, use that 3rd on Chevis Jackson.

WMD
02-09-2008, 01:50 AM
I didn't send in any big board for that reason.. I knew you were gonna explore trades and I didn't want a pick to be made if you were gone for a little bit.

The only person I said anything about taking Jonathan Stewart at 15 is jballa.. the Seattle GM.. because I was trying to get him to trade up with us.

wingboy2999
02-09-2008, 01:48 PM
I didn't send in any big board for that reason.. I knew you were gonna explore trades and I didn't want a pick to be made if you were gone for a little bit.

The only person I said anything about taking Jonathan Stewart at 15 is jballa.. the Seattle GM.. because I was trying to get him to trade up with us.

WTF! I knew that was fishy.

Bootland27
02-09-2008, 02:20 PM
You didn't send anything & wingboy said he would be back in time to make the pick(or announce a trade).......so exactly who authorized that pick????

wingboy2999
02-09-2008, 04:30 PM
TactiLion decided he would send in his own big board and make the pick for us.

DO NOT SEND IN PICKS FOR PEOPLE WHEN YOU ARE NOT SELECTED FOR THE MOCK DRAFT! YOU ARE ALLOWED TO MAKE SUGGESTIONS, THEY ARE WELCOME! BUT YOU CAN NOT MAKE THE PICKS. WHOEVER IS DOING IT IS RESPONSIBLE ENOUGH TO HANDLE IT!


.........I'm just glad he didn't pick Connor.......

TacticaLion
02-09-2008, 05:00 PM
TactiLion decided he would send in his own big board and make the pick for us.

DO NOT SEND IN PICKS FOR PEOPLE WHEN YOU ARE NOT SELECTED FOR THE MOCK DRAFT! YOU ARE ALLOWED TO MAKE SUGGESTIONS, THEY ARE WELCOME! BUT YOU CAN NOT MAKE THE PICKS. WHOEVER IS DOING IT IS RESPONSIBLE ENOUGH TO HANDLE IT!


.........I'm just glad he didn't pick Connor.......

********. I didn't send a big board and I didn't make the pick. Know the story before you make accusations.

You told me that you and WMD wanted Stewart at 15 (unless you could trade down). I waited for at least an hour (while the Lions were OTC) and didn't see you or WMD online. I didn't want Bond to make some random pick for the team (like he did for others) so I told him who to take if time ran out.

Know this:

1) Not only am I not a GM, I'm not even on the staff. I can't make a pick in the forum mock... and I didn't. I only told him who to take if you didn't get on. So, him jumping the gun is on him.

2) You told him over and over again not to make the pick before you got on (as you said you did). You not being on and him not waiting on you are on both of you... not me.

I posted around 6 saying I was going to be back in time to make my pick. And then I sent out more messages around 6:40.

So... let's recap: I didn't send in a big board and I didn't make the pick. You insisted that you told him to wait and he didn't. I actually wanted to see the mock do well and didn't want him to waste a pick.

Next time, PM me (and wait for a response)... it'll clear up the parts of the story that you obviously don't know.

wingboy2999
02-09-2008, 05:06 PM
JBond said you sent in a big board [or whoever we intended to pick] and the fact the big board was there before the time limit was over made him think that he didn't need to wait for the time limit to end.

So he wouldn't have jumped the gun... had you not sent anything. That is my point. He recognized that he made a mistake by listening to you. But as I said, you did not need to send anything. I made numerous post saying I was going to be on. You said you saw them. If you read them and recognized that, you would have known there was no need to send anything in.

If I said I was going to be on... I was going to be on. Which I was but he went and made the pick anyway because you decided to send something in.

TacticaLion
02-09-2008, 05:24 PM
JBond said you sent in a big board [or whoever we intended to pick] and the fact the big board was there before the time limit was over made him think that he didn't need to wait for the time limit to end.

So he wouldn't have jumped the gun... had you not sent anything. That is my point. He recognized that he made a mistake by listening to you. But as I said, you did not need to send anything. I made numerous post saying I was going to be on. You said you saw them. If you read them and recognized that, you would have known there was no need to send anything in.

If I said I was going to be on... I was going to be on. Which I was but he went and made the pick anyway because you decided to send something in.

The only posts that I saw from you about being on were in this thread after the fact. I did not know that ahead of time.

So, I had no clue when you (or WMD) would've been on and didn't want the pick to be wasted. He admitted that he made a mistake... I only tried to correct an incorrect pick. I even asked him in the PM if he had spoken to you... didn't get a response.

This comes down to one thing: Bond making the pick. He "thought" he didn't need to wait and made the pick without waiting for you. If he would've done it properly, no pick would've been made (and, if you didn't get on, your pick at 15 would've been made right).

Bootland27
02-09-2008, 05:26 PM
JBond said you sent in a big board [or whoever we intended to pick] and the fact the big board was there before the time limit was over made him think that he didn't need to wait for the time limit to end.

So he wouldn't have jumped the gun... had you not sent anything. That is my point. He recognized that he made a mistake by listening to you. But as I said, you did not need to send anything. I made numerous post saying I was going to be on. You said you saw them. If you read them and recognized that, you would have known there was no need to send anything in.

If I said I was going to be on... I was going to be on. Which I was but he went and made the pick anyway because you decided to send something in.

I agree

Tactica, I understand your intentions, but you had no business talking to him. They made some nice moves, and have been active in this whole process. Have some faith in these guys.

TacticaLion
02-09-2008, 05:35 PM
I agree

Tactica, I understand your intentions, but you had no business talking to him. They made some nice moves, and have been active in this whole process. Have some faith in these guys.

I didn't send it in to make the pick. Actually, the pick shouldn't be made unless it comes from a GM.

Neither was on and I simply told Bond who to take if the time ran out. That is all. He jumped the gun and picked early.

wingboy2999
02-09-2008, 05:36 PM
You may have thought you had the right intentions but you still screwed us. It was obvious we've been there every step of the way and been VERY active. So you didn't need to say ANYTHING.

If we did mess up... that is on us. You weren't selected so you shouldn't have sent anything.

TacticaLion
02-09-2008, 05:42 PM
You may have thought you had the right intentions but you still screwed us. It was obvious we've been there every step of the way and been VERY active. So you didn't need to say ANYTHING.

If we did mess up... that is on us. You weren't selected so you shouldn't have sent anything.

Are you kidding?

Sure, you've been the every step of the way... but weren't on when the Lions were OTC. I didn't and cannot make a pick... regardless of what I say, I'm not on the staff. He jumped the gun, knowing you were going to be back.

So, just face it... I didn't mess this up. I gave you a fall back plan and he jumped the gun.

TacticaLion
02-09-2008, 05:43 PM
And, if you still have Boss Bailey and/or Tatum Bell on the roster, trade them for picks.

wingboy2999
02-09-2008, 05:54 PM
Are you kidding?

Sure, you've been the every step of the way... but weren't on when the Lions were OTC. I didn't and cannot make a pick... regardless of what I say, I'm not on the staff. He jumped the gun, knowing you were going to be back.

So, just face it... I didn't mess this up. I gave you a fall back plan and he jumped the gun.

It doesn't require me to be here 24/7.... just long enough to make the pick. Either way, you shouldn't have given a backup plan because WMD and I have been game planning for this for the entire week and you screwed it up. That is the point.

Bootland gets it, thanks.

TacticaLion
02-09-2008, 06:00 PM
It doesn't require me to be here 24/7.... just long enough to make the pick. Either way, you shouldn't have given a backup plan because WMD and I have been game planning for this for the entire week and you screwed it up. That is the point.

Bootland gets it, thanks.You keep saying that as if it makes you feel better, yet you know the truth.

I'm not on the staff and cannot make picks.

You told Bond to wait for you to make the pick, and he didn't.

You weren't on when the Lions were OTC.

I only told him who to take if you didn't get on... nothing more. He admitted to making the mistake, so get over it.

detroit4life
02-09-2008, 06:32 PM
this is like middle school bickering in here its an online draft that doesnt mean anything because the combine hasnt even happened yet. Ive seen drafts where we got vince young at 22. this is all irrelevant especially at this time of the year.

TacticaLion
02-09-2008, 06:55 PM
Bertrand Berry?

wingboy2999
02-09-2008, 08:29 PM
Yeah, and I got the guy I wanted at #51 anyway in Phil Wheeler. So we got Berry for nothing basically.

TacticaLion
02-09-2008, 08:41 PM
Yeah, and I got the guy I wanted at #51 anyway in Phil Wheeler. So we got Berry for nothing basically.It's a good thing Wheeler was there... great fit.

It might be easier at this point to trade for a starting-caliber CB and draft Chevis Jackson in round 3. Doing that will fill all holes with talented players.

Addict
02-10-2008, 06:55 AM
.... what the hell are you all talking about?

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-10-2008, 11:24 AM
All things considered, not a bad draft on the forum mock. The Bertrand Berry trade made things a lot better and really screwed Arizona. If healthy he is a pretty good player and we got him basically for free. He's an instant starter with White back to base D-end and DeVries/Ikaika providing depth. This allows Ikaika to play some backup UT and get some time in the rotation at DE.

The more I read about Dorsey, the more I think he could be a nose tackle in a Cover 2. We lose Rogers production but over time Dorseys production should be just as good and more consistent. We don't really gain any talent but we gain consistency and attitude with Dorsey. The 2008 Lions in this scenario probably won't be that good, but we have a very solid base signed long term for the future along with Ernie and Calvin. Trading away KJ, we needed a running back so Stewart is ok even though you didn't make the pick. I like the trade back and still getting Wheeler pick too.

3rd round has to be corner. Maybe even two corners in the 3rd? Or trade back with the one of the 3rd round picks for a later 3rd round pick and a 4th/5th?

That mock was pretty good and interesting. Do they have any more realistic mock drafts on this site? Like with actual salary cap implications, free agency, not trading away unrestricted free agents and not being able to trade away injured players?

TacticaLion
02-10-2008, 07:33 PM
Pull the trigger on Chevis Jackson with our next pick. There has been a run on CBs... if we lose out on him, it hurts the draft. A lot.

Trading away KJ, we needed a running back so Stewart is ok even though you didn't make the pick.Umm... they made the pick. They wanted Stewart at 15 and were going to take him if they didn't trade down.

Nice... Dorsey. Who are you guys thinking about at 15?

Imagine a defense with Dorsey and Connor...
Stewart... we need a RB.
So, put it to rest.

And, at this point, I think I'd rather have Mendenhall over Stewart.

You could probably trade some late picks/players for a starting-caliber Cover 2 CB and use the second 3rd round pick on a pure pass-rusher.

Bootland27
02-10-2008, 07:36 PM
Wingboy/Lions WMD, are there any starting caliber corners that can be had for our first 3rd rounder??? Don't know whether you're taking that route or staying there and making a selection.

Xiomera
02-10-2008, 07:48 PM
Wingboy/Lions WMD, are there any starting caliber corners that can be had for our first 3rd rounder??? Don't know whether you're taking that route or staying there and making a selection.

They're working on it. Trust me

wingboy2999
02-10-2008, 08:10 PM
They're working on it. Trust me

*GASP*

STUPID 10 CHARACTERS!!! AND STUPID UNCAPITALIZATION!!!

wingboy2999
02-10-2008, 08:16 PM
Woah.... it didn't put everything in lowercase? What the hell?

WMD
02-10-2008, 08:17 PM
Umm... they made the pick. They wanted Stewart at 15 and were going to take him if they didn't trade down.

We were just using the board in case someone from another team checked to get a tip on our pick.. I also threw out Reggie Smith and Kenny Phillips for that reason.

TacticaLion
02-10-2008, 09:20 PM
We were just using the board in case someone from another team checked to get a tip on our pick.. I also threw out Reggie Smith and Kenny Phillips for that reason.

Umm... I have no clue what you're talking about. That was a PM, not a post.

Xiomera
02-10-2008, 09:21 PM
Lions just addressed another position of need . . . and it wasn't CB . . . bwah ha ha

detroit4life
02-10-2008, 10:03 PM
who? (ten characters)

TacticaLion
02-10-2008, 10:19 PM
who? (ten characters)

They traded down and received Daniel Graham.

wingboy2999
02-10-2008, 10:59 PM
We were going to trade for Leigh Bodden.... but Cleveland back out at [literally] the last minute.

TacticaLion
02-10-2008, 11:04 PM
We were going to trade for Leigh Bodden.... but Cleveland back out at [literally] the last minute.Graham is a better pickup anyway.

wingboy2999
02-10-2008, 11:43 PM
THERE... we picked Jackson. With one more surprise coming.

Bootland27
02-10-2008, 11:51 PM
THERE... we picked Jackson. With one more surprise coming.

Worst kept secret.

TacticaLion
02-10-2008, 11:52 PM
THERE... we picked Jackson. With one more surprise coming.Ttthhhaaannnkkk GGGGooooddd... ... ...

The mock needed that... a shot in the arm at CB.

wingboy2999
02-11-2008, 08:57 AM
Worst kept secret.

Nevermind, no more secret. And that wasn't it.

wingboy2999
02-11-2008, 09:38 AM
ON ANOTHER NOTE, IMMA KILL WMD!

Ok, not really, makes sense. I was semi-thinking it too. But why the hell were you up until 5:30? Wrestling with the idea huh? This means you get to beat the path to move Bell.

Bootland27
02-11-2008, 09:56 AM
Nevermind, no more secret. And that wasn't it.

Actually, I was talking about Jackson

Scotty D
02-11-2008, 10:02 AM
Would have taken Barton or Dunlap as a RT prospects over an OG.

wingboy2999
02-11-2008, 10:28 AM
We felt that we should go Rinehart because of the fact we think the trio of Scott, Woody and Backus is better then the duo of Mulitalo and Peterman. And Rinehart projects as a OG/OT.

wingboy2999
02-11-2008, 10:28 AM
In short... our OT > OGs.

wingboy2999
02-11-2008, 10:31 AM
We apparently do have a 5th, whoops.