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ricky bobby
02-26-2007, 04:49 PM
New mock draft

1. Leon Hall - CB – 5’11” 193 - Michigan
Workout numbers: 4.41 forty, 15 reps, 37.5 vert, 6.5 three cone
We need a starter opposite of Webster for next season. I was hoping that we signed Roderick Hood and that would allow us to use our 1st pick on another area of need, but he is off the market along with the rest of the top DBs. Hall is a very established and experienced corner back who I believe could come in and start for us next season. He had a great combine and showed off his athleticism. I was especially impressed with his three cone speed.

2. Justin Durant – WLB – 6’1” 230 - Hampton
Workout numbers: 4.51 forty, 25 reps, 36 vert, 6.77 three cone
We need a starting WLB with the departure of Emmons and Arrington. Durant is a small school player who has been very productive during his career. He is still extremely young (turns 22 in late November) and has tons of upside. He very quietly had a superb combine. He is very athletic and would make a great compliment to Pierce and MLB and Kiwanuka and SLB.

3. Scott Chandler – TE – 6’7” 268 – Iowa
Workout numbers: 4.78 forty, 16 reps, 30 vert
Scott Chandler is a very underrated TE in this draft. We need to draft somebody to replace Shank. Chandler is very nimble and athletic for his size. He is a huge TE and should be able to develop his blocking. His receiving game is his strength and he would be a great redzone threat. I would have Ben Patrick here, but that would be a bit unrealistic.

4. Laurent Robinson – WR – 6’2” 200 – Illinois State
Workout numbers: 4.41 forty, 19 reps, 39 vert, 6.83 three cone
We need two new WRs on our roster for depth. Robinson should be the first, and the second could be Mix or a UDFA. Robinson is a small school player and for that reason won’t go higher than this. I would have us taking a WR in round 2 or 3, but this WR is extremely packed and we can get a good WR early day 2. Robinson put up great numbers at the combine but has been overshadowed by other players from more prominent programs.

5. Eldra Buckley - RB – 5’9” 205 – Tenn. Chattanooga
Workout numbers: 4.59 forty, 36 inch vert.
We need a scat back and although his workout numbers don’t show it, Buckley should be our guy. He is a quick RB who can come in and change the pace. He would be our 3rd RB behind Jacobs and Droughns. I don’t think Ward will make the final cut.

6. Craig Dahl – SS – 6’2” 216 – North Dakota State
Workout numbers: 4.59 forty, 17 reps, 35 vert, 11.03 sixty yard shuttle
Dahl is a small school sleeper who is another very athletic prospect. He ran the fastest 60 yard shuttle out of anyone in the combine regardless of position. He won’t start on defense, but can be an immediate impact on special teams.

7. LaRon Harris – NT – 6’3” 345 – Northwestern Oklahoma State
Workout numbers: 1.7 10 yard shuttle, 33 reps, 33.5 vert
I haven’t seen him play, but he is very intriguing because of his size. He had a great workout and should be a late round pick. He actually ended his workout (non-combine) with a backflip. He must have great lower body strength to do a backflip at 345 pounds. He was a division 1-A recruit but became lazy and left Tennessee.

hugegmenfan
02-26-2007, 07:58 PM
ok well- i absolutely love the 1st 2 round picks for the giants in ur mock but after that its a little fuzzy imo- i think we gotta go Guard 3rd round like a manuel ramirez or another big guy because if the team does not resign pettigout (which im 99% sure we wont) Diehl will move out to G and we will have a gap and its important to have some depth on the oline
I really like the signing of travis fisher but not so much green- he is very injury prone and that is the last thing we need @ this point- i would rather sign a more reliable vet
Also i am strongly against moving Kiwi to LB- i would rather have Short start. Kiwi is a great young player and i would hate to screw him up by switching him around- however i do think it may b a waste to just have him as a backup, we can alternate him @ LB but im opposed to him being the starter

I'm glad u had guys like Carter, who i loathe, joseph and madison being cut- it would save us a lot in salary and these players just dont quite do it for us and its time to bring in a new era
Overall im pretty impressed, gotta say :)

ricky bobby
02-26-2007, 08:35 PM
Kiwanuka in a Jason Taylor DE/OLB role would be awesome. He could maximize his potential at OLB. He has the athleticism to play in space. We should keep him off those huge O-linemen and allow him to run free and make plays.

Giants Pride
02-27-2007, 11:49 AM
Cuts
William Joseph
Tim Carter
McQuarters (if he gets beat out)

Resign
Shaun O'Hara
Jay Feely

Free Agency
Donnie Edwards (2 years 5 mil)
Eric Steinbach (7 years 40 mil)
Justin Griffith (3 years 5 mil)
Dominic Rhodes (3 years 10 mil)
Dave Moore (1 year)

Draft
1 Chris Houston CB
2 Eric Weddle FS
3 Brandon Mebane DT
4 Garrett Wolfe RB
5 Mike Walker WR
6 Michael Okwo RB
7 BPA

Depth Chart
QB Eli - Lorenzen - Hasselback
RB Jacobs - Rhodes - Wolfe
FB Griffith
TE Shockey - Moore
WR Toomer - Moss - Tyree
WR Burress - Walker
LT Diehl - Whimper
LG Steinbach - Seubert
C O'hara - Reugemer
RG Snee
RT McKenzie

LE Strahan - Tuck
RE Umenyiora - Kiawanuka
DT Cofield - Mebane
DT Robbins - Seawright
WLB Edwards - Wilkinson - Okwo
MLB Pierce - Blackburn
SLB Kiawanuka - Short - Torbor
CB Webster - Houston - Underwood
CB Madison - Dockery
FS Demps - Weddle
SS Wilson - Butler

hugegmenfan
02-27-2007, 05:57 PM
Cuts
William Joseph
Tim Carter
McQuarters (if he gets beat out)

Resign
Shaun O'Hara
Jay Feely

Free Agency
Donnie Edwards (2 years 5 mil)
Eric Steinbach (7 years 40 mil)
Justin Griffith (3 years 5 mil)
Dominic Rhodes (3 years 10 mil)
Dave Moore (1 year)

Draft
1 Chris Houston CB
2 Eric Weddle FS
3 Brandon Mebane DT
4 Garrett Wolfe RB
5 Mike Walker WR
6 Michael Okwo RB
7 BPA

Depth Chart
QB Eli - Lorenzen - Hasselback
RB Jacobs - Rhodes - Wolfe
FB Griffith
TE Shockey - Moore
WR Toomer - Moss - Tyree
WR Burress - Walker
LT Diehl - Whimper
LG Steinbach - Seubert
C O'hara - Reugemer
RG Snee
RT McKenzie

LE Strahan - Tuck
RE Umenyiora - Kiawanuka
DT Cofield - Mebane
DT Robbins - Seawright
WLB Edwards - Wilkinson - Okwo
MLB Pierce - Blackburn
SLB Kiawanuka - Short - Torbor
CB Webster - Houston - Underwood
CB Madison - Dockery
FS Demps - Weddle
SS Wilson - Butler


Donnie Edwards is a MLB and would not solve our OLB crisis- i love the signing of rhodes despite his recent DUI and steinbach would b a great addition also

In the draft we have to go OLB whether its Poz or better yet Timmons and i think we could even get houston 2nd round
I love Eric Weddle but we have bigger needs than safety and i think we should see how wilson and demps play together again and reevaluate that position next yr

Number 10
03-01-2007, 02:45 PM
Re-sign

C Shaun O'Hara-5 years-$19.5 million
C/G Grey Ruegamer-1 years-$700,000
Chase Blackburn-1 years-$800,000
K-Jay Feely-3 years-$3 million
SS Gibril Wilson-2nd round tender
RB Derrick Ward-7th round tender
Reggie Torbor-4th round tender

Sign via FA

OLB Adalius Thomas-5 years-$33.5 million
QB Brad Johnson-2 years-$2 million
TE Randal Williams-1 year-$650,000
G-Jordan Black-3 years-$5 million

Cuts

QB Tim Hasselbeck
WR Michael Jennings

Draft

Giants trade #20 (1) to Tampa Bay for #35 (2) and #64 (2)

2-(from TB)-Aaron Ross-CB-Texas-4 years-$5 million
2-Earl Everett-OLB-Florida-4 years-$3.6 million
2-(from TB)-Aundrae Allison-WR-ECU-4 years-$3.4 million
3-Lorenzo Booker-RB-Florida State-4 years-$3 million

4-Marvin White-FS-TCU-4 years-$2.6 million
5-Yamon Figurs-WR-Kansas State-3 years-$1.7 million
6-Andrew Carnahan-OT-Arizona State-2 years-$700,000
7-Quinton Echols-DT-Kansas State-1 year-$300,000

GIANTS DEPTH CHART

QB-Eli Manning, Brad Johnson, Jared Lorenzen

RB-Brandon Jacobs, Lorenzo Booker, Derrick Ward

WR-Plaxico Burress, Amani Toomer, Sinorice Moss, Aundrae Allison, David Tyree, Tim Carter, Yamon Figurs

TE-Jeremy Shockey, Randal Williams

OT-David Diehl, Kareem McKenzie, Guy Whimper, Andrew Carnahan

G-Chris Snee, Rich Seubert, Matt Lentz, Jordan Black

C-Shaun O'Hara, Grey Ruegamer




DE-Michael Strahan, Osi Umenyiora, Mathias Kiwanuka, Justin Tuck

DT-Barry Cofield, Fred Robbins, William Joseph, Jonas Seawright, Quinton Echols

OLB-Adalius Thomas, Gerris Wilkinson, Earl Everett, Reggie Torbor

MLB-Antonio Pierce, Chase Blackburn

CB-Sam Madison, Aaron Ross, Corey Webster, RW McQuarters, Kevin Dockery, EJ Underwood

FS-Will Demps, Marvin White, James Butler

SS-Gibril Wilson, Jason Bell

K-Jay Feely

P-Jeff Feagles

Jughead10
03-01-2007, 02:48 PM
Do you think Carnahan has LT potential. I thought he was a massive run blocking RT.

Number 10
03-01-2007, 02:52 PM
Do you think Carnahan has LT potential. I thought he was a massive run blocking RT.

I am not bringing him in as a LT. I am bringing him in as a backup RT, a role that I don't think Whimper would play very well.

Jughead10
03-01-2007, 02:54 PM
I am not bringing him in as a LT. I am bringing him in as a backup RT, a role that I don't think Whimper would play very well.

To me he is a poor mans Callaghan who the Pats had start at RT this year as a rookie. So he probably could fit that role well.

NY+Giants=NYG
03-01-2007, 03:02 PM
Re-sign

C Shaun O'Hara-5 years-$19.5 million
C/G Grey Ruegamer-1 years-$700,000
Chase Blackburn-1 years-$800,000
K-Jay Feely-3 years-$3 million
SS Gibril Wilson-2nd round tender
RB Derrick Ward-7th round tender
Reggie Torbor-4th round tender

Sign via FA

OLB Adalius Thomas-5 years-$33.5 million
QB Brad Johnson-2 years-$2 million
TE Randal Williams-1 year-$650,000
G-Jordan Black-3 years-$5 million

Cuts

QB Tim Hasselbeck
WR Michael Jennings

Draft

Giants trade #20 (1) to Tampa Bay for #35 (2) and #64 (2)

2-(from TB)-Aaron Ross-CB-Texas-4 years-$5 million
2-Earl Everett-OLB-Florida-4 years-$3.6 million
2-(from TB)-Aundrae Allison-WR-ECU-4 years-$3.4 million
3-Lorenzo Booker-RB-Florida State-4 years-$3 million

4-Marvin White-FS-TCU-4 years-$2.6 million
5-Yamon Figurs-WR-Kansas State-3 years-$1.7 million
6-Andrew Carnahan-OT-Arizona State-2 years-$700,000
7-Quinton Echols-DT-Kansas State-1 year-$300,000

GIANTS DEPTH CHART

QB-Eli Manning, Brad Johnson, Jared Lorenzen

RB-Brandon Jacobs, Lorenzo Booker, Derrick Ward

WR-Plaxico Burress, Amani Toomer, Sinorice Moss, Aundrae Allison, David Tyree, Tim Carter, Yamon Figurs

TE-Jeremy Shockey, Randal Williams

OT-David Diehl, Kareem McKenzie, Guy Whimper, Andrew Carnahan

G-Chris Snee, Rich Seubert, Matt Lentz, Jordan Black

C-Shaun O'Hara, Grey Ruegamer




DE-Michael Strahan, Osi Umenyiora, Mathias Kiwanuka, Justin Tuck

DT-Barry Cofield, Fred Robbins, William Joseph, Jonas Seawright, Quinton Echols

OLB-Adalius Thomas, Gerris Wilkinson, Earl Everett, Reggie Torbor

MLB-Antonio Pierce, Chase Blackburn

CB-Sam Madison, Aaron Ross, Corey Webster, RW McQuarters, Kevin Dockery, EJ Underwood

FS-Will Demps, Marvin White, James Butler

SS-Gibril Wilson, Jason Bell

K-Jay Feely

P-Jeff Feagles



I think it's pretty decent, there stuff i like and dislike about it. I would like to see yours without the trading and stuff. I think once you start making assumptions like that it can be taken to an extreme. You dont know if that trade will work, or if Reese is going to even want to. Plus you don't know who is on the board, when we make that trade, so I would really like to see a more realistic one, without assumptions like trades. What would your mock look like if you used one mockdraft, your pick from a site. This way your parameters are almost set, on whose going to be drafted ahead of us, and than go from there.. That's the danger of these mocks because one doesnt know the whole situation, and so the whole story may not be told.

I like your players you listed, but I still want to know what you would think, out of curiosity minus the trades.

bigbluedefense
03-01-2007, 03:39 PM
You guys really did your HW. I like some of the sleeper picks.

hugegmenfan
03-01-2007, 04:05 PM
I think it's pretty decent, there stuff i like and dislike about it. I would like to see yours without the trading and stuff. I think once you start making assumptions like that it can be taken to an extreme. You dont know if that trade will work, or if Reese is going to even want to. Plus you don't know who is on the board, when we make that trade, so I would really like to see a more realistic one, without assumptions like trades. What would your mock look like if you used one mockdraft, your pick from a site. This way your parameters are almost set, on whose going to be drafted ahead of us, and than go from there.. That's the danger of these mocks because one doesnt know the whole situation, and so the whole story may not be told.

I like your players you listed, but I still want to know what you would think, out of curiosity minus the trades.

Yes- i like the trade actually it allows to get a great athlete and CB in ross and get a guy like everett also- i love lorenzo booker in the 3rd that would b a good tandem i feel w/ jacobs
i really doubt we r able to get A. Thomas though and i actually do not want him- i think hes going to go to SF because of his former d coord Nolan as the head coach and they have a ridiculous amount of cap room- the reason i dont want him is because he is 30 years old turning 31. I think we gotta build through the draft defensively not through FA which we have tried ie arrington , madison and it didnt pan out well. I think we should go for a stud LB 1st round like Poz or Timmons or Beason and we could may b even get Ross 2nd round (unlikely but ya know) or if not a guy like Hughes or Josh Wilson.
I like the signings of Jordan Black and Brad Johnson however

ricky bobby
03-01-2007, 05:44 PM
I updated my mock draft so that we can get both Kalil and Timmons.

NY+Giants=NYG
03-01-2007, 06:06 PM
Yes- i like the trade actually it allows to get a great athlete and CB in ross and get a guy like everett also- i love lorenzo booker in the 3rd that would b a good tandem i feel w/ jacobs
i really doubt we r able to get A. Thomas though and i actually do not want him- i think hes going to go to SF because of his former d coord Nolan as the head coach and they have a ridiculous amount of cap room- the reason i dont want him is because he is 30 years old turning 31. I think we gotta build through the draft defensively not through FA which we have tried ie arrington , madison and it didnt pan out well. I think we should go for a stud LB 1st round like Poz or Timmons or Beason and we could may b even get Ross 2nd round (unlikely but ya know) or if not a guy like Hughes or Josh Wilson.
I like the signings of Jordan Black and Brad Johnson however


I like Booker, but no way in the 3rd.. I'd take Manny R before I take Booker, and I like Booker alot.

hugegmenfan
03-01-2007, 06:35 PM
I like Booker, but no way in the 3rd.. I'd take Manny R before I take Booker, and I like Booker alot.

ya i would take manny ramirez before booker also- look @ my signature :)

Number 10
03-01-2007, 06:35 PM
I like Booker, but no way in the 3rd.. I'd take Manny R before I take Booker, and I like Booker alot.

I was the first to talk about Manny, back before he was even a day one thought. But let's calm it down a little bit with him. He is a road grader, nothing more. It's not like he is a G that won't ever be found in the draft again. I like the kid, but he I am not sold on him being an immediate starter just yet.

NY+Giants=NYG
03-01-2007, 06:48 PM
I was the first to talk about Manny, back before he was even a day one thought. But let's calm it down a little bit with him. He is a road grader, nothing more. It's not like he is a G that won't ever be found in the draft again. I like the kid, but he I am not sold on him being an immediate starter just yet.

Well that's good you knew of him. I know, personally i got that from a TT game i saw during the year, and than BBD brought him up and i remembered him again.

I think he helped himself at the combine and senior bowl week, which will open NFL scouts's eyes. As for finding more later in other drafts, I agree. I guess I liked Max jean Gilles last year, and still pissed the egurls took him.

GiantRutgersFan
03-02-2007, 10:19 PM
How about this:

assuming we hold onto our RFAs, Grey ruegemer, and Feely

Sign:

Cato June- sign him to a 3 year deal for a decent amount of $$$

Dominic Rhodes- 2 year deal to backup Brandon Jacobs

Travis Fisher- a solid starting CB who isnt that old. Sign him to a 3 year deal.



Cato June (OLB)-would be a good pickup. He is a speedy LBer and still a young player. He obviously lacks size, but he brings the speed that we lack.

Dominic Rhodes (RB) is a nice pickup to backup Jacobs and split carries with. good pass catcher out of the backfield

Travis Fisher (CB) is a guy who should give us some help in the secondary and be a capable starter. Madison and Fisher is all rite and hopefully Underwood or Dockery shows something


Overall I think that it would help our Defense out tremendously and give us more options in the draft. June is a nice player and a fairly good fit. Fisher helps our secondary, and Rhodes is exactly what we should be looking add to compliment Jacobs.

Draft:

Round 1- Robert Meachem/Ted Ginn Jr./Dwayne Jarrett- I am a fan of all 3 of these guys. Chances are 1 of them is gone. But all 3 are going to be excellent players. Jarrett has great size, nice hands, great jumping ability, is physical, can block, and comes through in the clutch. Ginn has phenomenol speed and loads of potential, as well as an excellent return man. Meachem is the most well rounded of the 3 and is going to be an excellent player. anyone of them would be an excellent reciever for our team for years to come.

Round 2- Eric Weddle- a great safety who is gonna do great things in this league. since we got a CB, now we need a safety and Weddle would be great. Not gonna go in depth cause I am sure you guys know all about him.

Round 3- Stewart Bradley- Even though we signed June, we still have one major question mark in our LB core. While I think that Wilkinson or Blackburn will be able to play, I would still take Bradley in the 3rd. he has great intangibles and plays smart. he would be able to contribute on special teams and in a backup role. In a couple years, he should be able to become a nice starter.

Round 4- Manny Ramirez- strong player. Not gonna repeat this one. Can bench 550 though.


Round 5 Jonathan Wade- the guy has great potential. He had a nice senior year as well. He is very fast if nothing else and considering the division we play in, that will help.

Round 6- BPA RB/Yamon Figurs. Dont really know who would be available. Look for a RB to replace Ward, and a DT.

Round 7- BPA

Number 10
03-03-2007, 08:56 PM
I am going to have an updated mock offseason up in an hour.

Number 10
03-03-2007, 09:32 PM
*I am doing a mock offseason starting from where we stand tonight...meaning the likes of O'Hara, Blackburn...etc already have been re-signed. And because of complaints last time, I will do a mock draft with no trades.

Cut

WR Tim Carter

Re-Sign

OL Grey Ruegamer-1 year-$900,000

Sign via FA

RB Dominic Rhodes-4 years-$14.5 million
DT Ian Scott-4 years-$10.5 million
OL Jordan Black-3 years-$5 million
LB Tim Johnson-2 years-$1.3 million
QB Brad Johnson-2 years-$2 million
TE David Martin-3 years-$2 million

Draft

1-Aaron Ross-CB-Texas-4 years-$5 million
2-Earl Everett-OLB-Florida-4 years-$3.6 million
3-Johnnie Lee Higgins-WR-UTEP-4 years-$3.4 million
4-Marvin White-FS-TCU-4 years-$2.6 million
5-Anthony Waters-MLB-Clemson-3 years-$1.7 million
6-Andrew Carnahan-OT-Arizona State-2 years-$700,000
7-Marquice Cole-CB-Northwestern-1 year-$300,000

Giants Depth Chart

QB-Eli Manning, Brad Johnson, Jared Lorenzen

RB-Brandon Jacobs, Dominic Rhodes, Derrick Ward

FB-Jim Finn

WR-Plaxico Burress, Amani Toomer, Sinorice Moss, Johnnie Lee Higgins, David Tyree

TE-Jeremy Shockey, David Martin

OT-David Diehl, Kareem McKenzie, Guy Whimper, Andrew Carnahan

G-Chris Snee, Jordan Black, Rich Seubert

C-Shaun O'Hara, Grey Ruegamer




DE-Michael Strahan, Osi Umenyiora, Mathias Kiwanuka, Justin Tuck

DT-Barry Cofield, Fred Robbins, Ian Scott, William Joseph, Jonas Seawright

OLB-Gerris Wilkinson, Chase Blackburn, Earl Everett, Reggie Torbor, Tim Johnson

MLB-Antonio Pierce, Anthony Waters

CB-Sam Madison, Aaron Ross, Corey Webster, RW McQuarters, Kevin Dockery, EJ Underwood

SS-Gibril Wilson, Jason Bell

FS-Will Demps, Marvin White, James Butler

K-Josh Huston

P-Jeff Feagles

LS-Ryan Kuehl

ricky bobby
03-03-2007, 09:57 PM
To be quite frank with you Number 10, I don't like it.

Ross is going to be a 25 year old rookie.

Everett is too slow to play WLB for us after running a 4.88.

Higgins is alright but if Steve Smith, Allison, Davis, Allison or even Mike Walker are available, i'd go with them.

Marvin White is a reach.

Waters is alright, even though we don't need a MLB with Blackburn backing up Pierce.

Ian Scott and Brad Johnson were the only FA signing I liked.

Number 10
03-03-2007, 10:26 PM
To be quite frank with you Number 10, I don't like it.

Ross is going to be a 25 year old rookie.

Everett is too slow to play WLB for us after running a 4.88.

Higgins is alright but if Steve Smith, Allison, Davis, Allison or even Mike Walker are available, i'd go with them.

Marvin White is a reach.

Waters is alright, even though we don't need a MLB with Blackburn backing up Pierce.

Ian Scott and Brad Johnson were the only FA signing I liked.

-Ross is my #1 CB in this draft and option #1 would be to trade down to the 30-40 range and take him there, but like I said I kept trades out of this one.

-Everett is not slow. If you had any game tape on him you would know that. I don't value 40 times as much as some do, but let me say this. Evertett could have easily gone to one of these speed and quickness centers where they teach someone how to run a 40, technique wise so that it can be shaved by .2 seconds. However, that has nothing to do with in game speed which Everett already has. He plays laterally so well, and can drop into coverage smoothly. He is a better version of Wilkinson.

-I like Higgins a lot, very fast and very good mechanical WR. He is not just an athlete that happens to play WR. He also could be the return man we need. Allison is a late 2nd/early 3rd in my book along with Davis. I don't like Steve Smith as much as Higgins.

-White in the 4th a reach? ummmm....? At TCU's pro day, he impressed scouts again in the 40 and shuttle runs. He is also a instinctive cover man that can make plays on the ball. I am starting to think he may have to be picked in the 3rd if we want him because his stock is on the rise.

-I think Blackburn will be moved to SLB and will start the season there.

GiantRutgersFan
03-04-2007, 01:32 AM
-Ross is my #1 CB in this draft and option #1 would be to trade down to the 30-40 range and take him there, but like I said I kept trades out of this one.

-Everett is not slow. If you had any game tape on him you would know that. I don't value 40 times as much as some do, but let me say this. Evertett could have easily gone to one of these speed and quickness centers where they teach someone how to run a 40, technique wise so that it can be shaved by .2 seconds. However, that has nothing to do with in game speed which Everett already has. He plays laterally so well, and can drop into coverage smoothly. He is a better version of Wilkinson.

-I like Higgins a lot, very fast and very good mechanical WR. He is not just an athlete that happens to play WR. He also could be the return man we need. Allison is a late 2nd/early 3rd in my book along with Davis. I don't like Steve Smith as much as Higgins.

-White in the 4th a reach? ummmm....? At TCU's pro day, he impressed scouts again in the 40 and shuttle runs. He is also a instinctive cover man that can make plays on the ball. I am starting to think he may have to be picked in the 3rd if we want him because his stock is on the rise.

-I think Blackburn will be moved to SLB and will start the season there.


mmmm Aaron Ross sucks.... I wouldnt even like him with our second round pick.


Everett is ok, but I think he is lower then our second rounder as of right now.

I like Jordan Black and Ian Scott. But overall a bad job in the draft and I would be very disappointed

ricky bobby
03-04-2007, 07:40 AM
My priorities are different than yours so my mock is different, but if they were alike, i'd draft like this...

If we go CB in the first it should be Hall, Houston or Revis. One of the three will drop to 20.

If we go LB in the second it should be Justin Durant. He worked out great, and had a very productive career at Hampton. Small School, but he has potential.

If we go WR in the third it should be Davis, Gonzo, Smith, Allison or Walker.

If we go S in the fourth it should be Josh Gattis. Watch out for Craig Dahl as a sleeper. Posted the fastest 60 yard shuttle out of ANY player at the combine and is 6'2" 215.

Number 10
03-04-2007, 08:49 AM
mmmm Aaron Ross sucks.... I wouldnt even like him with our second round pick.


Everett is ok, but I think he is lower then our second rounder as of right now.

I like Jordan Black and Ian Scott. But overall a bad job in the draft and I would be very disappointed

I'd love to hear your asessment on Ross.

hugepunch
03-04-2007, 10:56 AM
round1-----p.willis ILB can play the outside. (i was a timmons guy untill i heard he measured at 6'0 and did poorly in the quickness and agility drills and i hear he could fall into round 2).

round2-----Q.Pitcock DT/ M.McCauley CB/ B.Meriweather S/CB / B.Leonard FB i would be fine with anyone of these fine gentleman in round 2.

hugegmenfan
03-04-2007, 12:50 PM
mmmm Aaron Ross sucks.... I wouldnt even like him with our second round pick.


Everett is ok, but I think he is lower then our second rounder as of right now.

I like Jordan Black and Ian Scott. But overall a bad job in the draft and I would be very disappointed


i disagree- ross does not suck, he won the thorpe award for best CB in the nation i do not think that is sucking
Earl Everett is going to b a good nfl player i think- the only objection i have to ur draft #10 is that i think u should just reverse a little- i think we can get a quality 2nd round CB like Josh Wilson, Daymeion Hughes, etc.
However i think LB is kind of thin and if do not nab lawrence timmons, beason, or paul poz we id b disappointed
i also object to taking a WR 3rd round and try to address Oline there

Forenci
03-04-2007, 08:42 PM
i disagree- ross does not suck, he won the thorpe award for best CB in the nation i do not think that is sucking
Earl Everett is going to b a good nfl player i think- the only objection i have to ur draft #10 is that i think u should just reverse a little- i think we can get a quality 2nd round CB like Josh Wilson, Daymeion Hughes, etc.
However i think LB is kind of thin and if do not nab lawrence timmons, beason, or paul poz we id b disappointed
i also object to taking a WR 3rd round and try to address Oline there

Hmm, I like Ross. Would be a good addition to our roster, and I think it's been proven a lot of these Texas defensive backs have done well in the NFL as of recent.

I do not like the idea of getting Hughes though, he is way too slow for my taste. Last thing I think the Giants needs is a slow defensive back. I think with the aging Madison, McQuarters and even Webster isn't the quickest guy in the world. Dockery has some major speed that I liked though. However, don't be surprised to see Hughes lighting it up for a Cover 2 team.

I really like the idea of Ross, this way at least we know one of our corners won't drop a sure interception.

ricky bobby
03-04-2007, 08:48 PM
Ross is 25 years old. Unless he plans on stepping up his rookie season and making an impact, I don't want him. It takes corners a year or two to develop and he'll be 27 by that time. The draft is meant to bring young talent into the NFL, Ross isn't exactly young in comparison to most NFL rookies.

Number 10
03-04-2007, 08:53 PM
Ross is 25 years old. Unless he plans on stepping up his rookie season and making an impact, I don't want him. It takes corners a year or two to develop and he'll be 27 by that time. The draft is meant to bring young talent into the NFL, Ross isn't exactly young in comparison to most NFL rookies.

The draft is not about what is going to happen 10 years from now. It is more about the 3-4-5 year plan and Ross will still be young then. Him being 25 is not a big deal at all. You are blowing it way out of proportion.

NY+Giants=NYG
03-04-2007, 09:08 PM
The draft is not about what is going to happen 10 years from now. It is more about the 3-4-5 year plan and Ross will still be young then. Him being 25 is not a big deal at all. You are blowing it way out of proportion.

I'd have to agree with his age.. In terms of investing in a player that's 25, doesnt make sense from a business point of view in scope with the NFL. It will take him a year or two to get used to this league, and by than he would be 27 years old. Age is very important in my opinion. I look at each player as a business investment, and I'd rather go with someone younger, with alot more potential to be in the NFL, than someone whose already 25. But that's more of a personal preference i guess. I'd rather go someone whose 21 or so that's on the board than someone who'se 25 if they are close to each other in terms of talent.

Number 10
03-04-2007, 09:53 PM
I'd have to agree with his age.. In terms of investing in a player that's 25, doesnt make sense from a business point of view in scope with the NFL. It will take him a year or two to get used to this league, and by than he would be 27 years old. Age is very important in my opinion. I look at each player as a business investment, and I'd rather go with someone younger, with alot more potential to be in the NFL, than someone whose already 25. But that's more of a personal preference i guess. I'd rather go someone whose 21 or so that's on the board than someone who'se 25 if they are close to each other in terms of talent.

If you want to really dive into the business side while looking down on his age, consider this.

Look around the league and notice that CBs don't really decline in their play until they are usually 32-33-34 years old. It is arguably the most instinctive position, if not second to safety. Ross will "learn the ropes" by age 27 in your world and still have 6-7 years of quality football. That is what you expect from a player when you draft him, GMs say it all the time. You cannot count on 10 year careers and know how old Eli was when he was brought into this league.

grizmoandchodey
03-06-2007, 09:00 PM
1. Paul Posluzny
2. Chris Houston
3. Aundrae Allison

ricky bobby
03-06-2007, 09:39 PM
I Edited mine. It's very lengthy.

Number 10
03-06-2007, 09:42 PM
Ricky-

We aren't getting 4 picks for the #20 pick.

And what do you mean when you say you'll trust Spags on this one? Did he ever lobby for Hood?

ricky bobby
03-06-2007, 09:46 PM
Ricky-

We aren't getting 4 picks for the #20 pick.

And what do you mean when you say you'll trust Spags on this one? Did he ever lobby for Hood?

Late 3rd, late 4th, late 5th for moving down 8 spots in the first seems fair. The value chart agrees with me.

Number 10
03-06-2007, 09:48 PM
Late 3rd, late 4th, late 5th for moving down 8 spots in the first seems fair. The value chart agrees with me.

Yes the value chart may agree, but teams don't give away half their draft to move up to the 20th pick. Doesn't make sense.

And even if someone did agree to that, why would you want all those later picks in a weak draft?

ricky bobby
03-06-2007, 09:54 PM
Yes the value chart may agree, but teams don't give away half their draft to move up to the 20th pick. Doesn't make sense.

And even if someone did agree to that, why would you want all those later picks in a weak draft?

Well look through my picks. There are some diamonds in the rough out there. We need depth, youth, and speed according to Reese. My draft addresses all of those areas. Look through my draft, what picks don't you like?

moc182
03-06-2007, 10:06 PM
Late 3rd, late 4th, late 5th for moving down 8 spots in the first seems fair. The value chart agrees with me.

We moved down practically the exact same amount last year and didn't get nearly that much, teams don't live and die by the trade value chart.

Number 10
03-06-2007, 10:06 PM
Picks I don't like-

Mebane-There are too many later round DTs I like that I feel are just as good as Mebane, why waste a 2nd on him? Again, if we don't take Okoye or Branch I don't want DT on day one.

Chandler-You fall in love with measurables way too much. Him being 6'7 does not mean that much, he is not like Plax in the sense where he knows how to use his height advantage. Also, we need a blocking TE more than a receiving threat.

Henry-Be honest here, has he not run a good 40 time would you even know who he is? I watched a lot of Arizona football and he is mediocre at best. Not much of an upgrade it at all over Ward.

Dahl-Why bring in another SS?

hugepunch
03-07-2007, 07:23 AM
i want antwan barnes in the 4th.

ricky bobby
03-07-2007, 10:30 AM
Picks I don't like-

Mebane-There are too many later round DTs I like that I feel are just as good as Mebane, why waste a 2nd on him? Again, if we don't take Okoye or Branch I don't want DT on day one.

Chandler-You fall in love with measurables way too much. Him being 6'7 does not mean that much, he is not like Plax in the sense where he knows how to use his height advantage. Also, we need a blocking TE more than a receiving threat.

Henry-Be honest here, has he not run a good 40 time would you even know who he is? I watched a lot of Arizona football and he is mediocre at best. Not much of an upgrade it at all over Ward.

Dahl-Why bring in another SS?

Mebane is a very underrated player and he will go in round two. I don't think there is that large of a drop off between the Okoye, Branch and Mebane. He's not worth a first round pick at this point, but is definately a second rounder in my opinion. He has had a great college career and like Okoye, he can penetrate very well. He can work out at both UT and NT.

I'll admit I do fall in love with measurables too much. Chandler not using his size to his advantage is bogus. He uses his size very well. I'm sure he can implement his size and learn to block as well.

I know Henry hasn't done much in Arizona, but what did he have to work with? Arizona is a Basketball school for the most part. He does have to learn to be more patient, and work on his technique. If he does, he can be something special. I think drafting on potential is worth it after the first couple of rounds.

Dahl is very athletic and If you notice, I have Gibril and Demps switching positions. Dahl can develop into a solid player and can make an impact on specail teams right away due to his athleticism. Demps isn't exactly that young anymore and I think Dahl can eventually develop into a starter after Demps is gone.

hugegmenfan
03-07-2007, 02:16 PM
1. Paul Posluzny
2. Chris Houston
3. Aundrae Allison

dream on- i mean i would love to see this happen because houston and poz would b a great draft but houston is a top 20-25 pick so there is no way we can get both

grizmoandchodey
03-07-2007, 07:57 PM
oh yeah surely. tell me who is gunna draft chris houston from top 25. I mean he did have one of the best combine workouts, well probably the best, but he is way undersized at the corner, and won't be a shut down corner in the NFL. And although speed is the name of the game, and he ran a 4.32, how high can he get up there. He will be worked on in the NFL, and taken advantage of by veteran quarterbacks. I think he will actually drop to the second round and will be a valuable pick there that the Giants can get him. Not saying he's horrible but not worthy of a first round selection. Thhe Giants however do need that speedy corner in the secondary because they get burned on deep routes every season.

hugegmenfan
03-07-2007, 08:09 PM
How about this:

assuming we hold onto our RFAs, Grey ruegemer, and Feely

Sign:

Cato June- sign him to a 3 year deal for a decent amount of $$$

Dominic Rhodes- 2 year deal to backup Brandon Jacobs

Travis Fisher- a solid starting CB who isnt that old. Sign him to a 3 year deal.



Cato June (OLB)-would be a good pickup. He is a speedy LBer and still a young player. He obviously lacks size, but he brings the speed that we lack.

Dominic Rhodes (RB) is a nice pickup to backup Jacobs and split carries with. good pass catcher out of the backfield

Travis Fisher (CB) is a guy who should give us some help in the secondary and be a capable starter. Madison and Fisher is all rite and hopefully Underwood or Dockery shows something


Overall I think that it would help our Defense out tremendously and give us more options in the draft. June is a nice player and a fairly good fit. Fisher helps our secondary, and Rhodes is exactly what we should be looking add to compliment Jacobs.

Draft:

Round 1- Robert Meachem/Ted Ginn Jr./Dwayne Jarrett- I am a fan of all 3 of these guys. Chances are 1 of them is gone. But all 3 are going to be excellent players. Jarrett has great size, nice hands, great jumping ability, is physical, can block, and comes through in the clutch. Ginn has phenomenol speed and loads of potential, as well as an excellent return man. Meachem is the most well rounded of the 3 and is going to be an excellent player. anyone of them would be an excellent reciever for our team for years to come.

Round 2- Eric Weddle- a great safety who is gonna do great things in this league. since we got a CB, now we need a safety and Weddle would be great. Not gonna go in depth cause I am sure you guys know all about him.

Round 3- Stewart Bradley- Even though we signed June, we still have one major question mark in our LB core. While I think that Wilkinson or Blackburn will be able to play, I would still take Bradley in the 3rd. he has great intangibles and plays smart. he would be able to contribute on special teams and in a backup role. In a couple years, he should be able to become a nice starter.

Round 4- Manny Ramirez- strong player. Not gonna repeat this one. Can bench 550 though.


Round 5 Jonathan Wade- the guy has great potential. He had a nice senior year as well. He is very fast if nothing else and considering the division we play in, that will help.

Round 6- BPA RB/Yamon Figurs. Dont really know who would be available. Look for a RB to replace Ward, and a DT.

Round 7- BPA


I'm all for Travis fisher and Rhodes truthfully, but not for June- hes not worth handing out money and i would much rather draft a LB 1st round

1st round- im really against drafting a WR 1st need- its not an immediate need and we have many other needs. Even though u hav us signing fisher, CB could still b addressed, LB can b addressed in timmons- defense defense
2nd round- eric weddle is ok i think only if we lose wilson to RFA- then well have an xtra 2nd round pick and Weddle, Merriweather if he falls or even Nelson 1st round would b nice but not if we dont lose wilson
3rd round - Good pick
4th round- i do not think manny drops to the bottom of the 4th round- i would b very surprised especially after a great combine
5th round- i dont think wade drops that far either
6th round - great pick

i mean 1 of the major problems in ur mock is that the 1st 2 round picks would not start right away for us and we need players to come in right now and make an impact

ricky bobby
03-13-2007, 02:32 PM
Update my mock draft. Check it out. No Timmons in round one.

Slasher28
03-13-2007, 07:03 PM
The players that i've liked since before the combine:
Darrelle Revis, Chris Houston, Leon Hall (iffy), ARRON ROSS, Earl Everette, Steve Breaston, JON BEASON, LORENZO BOOKER, Ben Patrick, Marvin White, Brandon Meriweather, John Talley, TARELL BROWN- has some character issues and broke arm in the national championship game, Fred Bennet, Desmond Bishop, Justin Durant, Prescott Burgess, Kareem Brown, Quentin Moses, Chase Pittman, Justin Blalock, Aaron Sears, Brandon Frye, Corey Hilliard, Chris Davis, Rhema McKnight, Paul Williams, Sidney Rice, Aundrae Allison, Cory Anderson, MARSHAWN LYNCH, Selvin Young, Thomas Clayton-smallish unknown fast RB, Drew Tate- has the most guts I've seen in a QB, and we should try to get this guy in rounds 3-5, he led the LBs in every event except one, I just forget the one




Quincy Black
Height: 6-15/8 | Weight: 240 | 40-Time: 4.50

Official Bio

Strengths:
An outstanding athlete...Has great timed speed...Is fluid and does a tremendous job in coverage...Has good range and a burst to close in pursuit...Has very good instincts and seems to always be around the ball...Has a great motor...Ball skills are above average...Great blitzer...Smart with solid intangibles...Still has upside.

Weaknesses:
Needs to get stronger...Is not overly tough or physical...Has some trouble getting off blocks...Does not play as fast as he ran in workouts...Needs to do a better job versus the run...Footwork and technique are sub par...A bit of an underachiever?

Notes:
Attended Harper College near Chicago (IL) before coming to the Lobos...Has all the physical tools you look for and he was a true workout warrior at the Scouting Combine...Has a 40+-inch vertical leap...A very intriguing developmental guy who may get pushed up draft boards in such a weak year for the linebacker position.
Career Statistics
Year GP TKL TFL SACK PBU INT
2003 JUCO - - - - -
2004 12 18 0.0 0.0 0 0
2005 11 63 3.5 1.5 5 1
2006 13 114 1.0 0.0 4 3
Totals 36 195 4.5 1.5 9 4

grizmoandchodey
03-15-2007, 02:04 PM
chris houston has hada great combine workout but is very indersized at the corner

Damix
03-15-2007, 02:05 PM
How to figure? I'd be estatic to take him in the first, he really fits into our system

grizmoandchodey
03-15-2007, 02:12 PM
no doubt about it he is a great corner but i dont think he is worth our #20 pick. Although we do need some speed in our defense the only way i would draft a corner is if Hall came to us. I would take Houston though if Poz,Brown,Timmons, and Hall all got picked up before our pick

hugegmenfan
03-15-2007, 05:53 PM
chris houston has hada great combine workout but is very indersized at the corner

ya but the fact of the matter is corner backs tend to b really small these days and those are the ones who r effective- look @ dre bly hes like 5'9
speed is more key these days for a corner than height
id b very happy to get houston

hugegmenfan
03-28-2007, 02:38 PM
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/10080649

Jamie Duke's Mock Draft on Nfl.com
Terrrrrible giants pick- he has us taking tony ugoh 1st round!

Number 10
03-28-2007, 05:15 PM
Alright I am going to put up a rest of the offseason mock, let me know what you think.

Sign via FA

Rocky Boiman-OLB-1 year-$650,000

Boiman gives us another veteran yet younger LB that can play both outside spots. He is an excellent pass defender and special teamer that has the attittude the Reese is going after. By no means would this be a significant signing, but he'd be cheap and would be a nice role player.

Cuts

Tim Hasselbeck

Trades

Jim Finn to Jets for 6th round pick

2007 NFL Draft

1st round-Ted Ginn Jr.-Ohio State

I know this won't be the most popular pick amongst many of the guys here, but I don't care. I have been watching all the film I can get my hands on that have to do with the WRs in this draft and Ginn is amazing me. His speed is something that could take this offense to another level in so many ways. His route running and hands are underrated and will improve with time. His return ability alone could warrant a 1st round pick, but I think his game will translate very well into the NFL as a WR. We can get an Amani Toomer type WR in any draft, but to get a guy with the speed of Ginn is not possible more often than not. A lot of players do not play as fast as their 40 time, but Ginn plays faster than his 4.3 speed which is sick. Eli loves to throw the ball downfield and if Ginn is the one running those fly routes, you can bet your balls that this conenction would be lethal for years.

2nd round-Earl Everett-OLB-Florida

I have been on Everett's banwagon for quite some time now and I still think he will be a very good LB in the NFL despite a slower than expected appearence at the combine. Fact remains that he plays with speed when in pads and has the kind of team first, all out attitude you want on a team. A very good coverage LB that was often relied on to cover TEs by himself in college who can also apply some pressure on the QB and get into the backfield and be disruptive. He will compete with Wilkinson for the starting WILL job but until he gets a little bit stronger in the lower half, I don't think he could win that competition. However he would round out our need for depth at LB and could be starting by the middle of the season should Wilkinson not get the job done, which is what I expect.

3rd round-Paul Solai-DT-Utah

I love what Cofield and Seawright gave us this past year, and I am pretty sure they can play at the same level again in 2007. However, a lot of people do not realize how fortunate we were to have them healthy all year because that is a position that is pretty easy to get beat up at. Plus, it was apparent that both of them, especially Cofield, wore down late in the year and our run defense took a hit because of it. I think that adding another big body into the rotation is absolutely vital and I have zero confidence in Joseph or Seawright. Solai has a monstrous body but does not play slow, has the high motor type playing style that gets the most out of himself and those around him. You need to be strong in the trenches and I think Solai would complete our D-line to where it needs to be in terms of Championship caliber.

4th round-Marvin White-FS-TCU

You guys know my liking of White, as I have been preaching about him for quite awhile now. He is a very good coverage, centerfielder type safety that has a ton of tools to work with. He knows how to read an offense and make plays on the ball, very sure hands. He also hits like Gibril Wilson in the sense that he throws his body around and can lay the lumber on a ball carrier. I understand we are set at safety with Wilson and Demps, but I feel we are going to eventually need someone back there that is cover first, play the run second. I hate to say it, but the best course of action might be to let Wilson walk next year and slide Demps to SS, a role he appeared to be comfortable with in last year's hybrid safety scheme.

5th round-DeShawn Wynn-RB-Florida

We do have our two headed monster all set to go with Jacobs and Droughns ready to break some backs, but I still want a change of pace back that is capable of taking it the distance every time he gets his hands on the ball. We have talked about Wynn for awhile now and you have to love his combination of speed, quickness, and leg strength. He has a very well put together 225 pound frame that allows him to run in a physical manner, but he also has the explosion to outrun almost everyone on the field. I'd be a lot more secure watching him run with the ball than Ward.

6th round-Dustin Fry-G/C-Clemson

We need a backup interior lineman that cna bring some versatility. Fry was the key to Clemson's nasty running attack up front yet he receives very little recognition for it. He plays with the nasty side that all offensive lineman should play with and I cannot help but think of Rich Seubert when I watch him play. With Seubert starting at LG scenario, Fry would group with Ruegamer and Lentz as the backup interior linemen that could get the job done should someone go down.

6th round (from Jets)-Cory Anderson-FB-Tennessee

The Giants need more of power presence at fullback with this new style of running that Jacobcs and Droughns will offer. Anderson is a no nonsense, straight ahead bulldozer that does not lose the heads up battles with linebackers. He is also a very good pass blocker, much like a TE you could say and can catch balls out of the backfield just as good as Finn.

7th round-Chris Leak-QB-Florida

I don't care that Leak does not meet the stereotypical requirements for QBs int he NFL. His brains alone combined with his success in college are enough to warrant him a 7th round pick. All this talk of him going undrafted is garbage because even though he likely will not have a huge impact on the game field, his brains in the film room, even as a rookie, can help any team. I'd much rather have him as our third QB than Hasselbeck who other than having a hot wife, offers nothing to us.

7th round (comp)-Jake Nordin-TE-Northern Illinois

Not much to say about this pick, just a good blocker from TE with adequate 260+ size and strength. He won't offer anything in the passing game but we already are stocked on targets for Eli to throw to, we need someone can can produce from TE in the running attack.

DEPTH CHART

QB-Eli Manning, Jared Lorenzen, Chris Leak

RB-Brandon Jacobs, Reuben Droughns, DeShawn Wynn, Derrick Ward

FB-Cory Anderson

WR-Plaxico Burress, Amani Toomer, Ted Ginn Jr, Sinorice Moss, David Tyree

TE-Jeremy Shockey, Jake Nordin

OT-David Diehl, Kareem McKenzie, Guy Whimper

G-Chris Snee, Rich Seubert, Matt Lentz, Dustin Fry

C-Shaun O'Hara, Grey Ruegamer




DE-Michael Strahan, Osi Umenyiora, Mathias Kiwanuka, Justin Tuck

DT-Fred Robbins, Barry Cofield, Paul Solai, William Joseph, Jonas Seawright

OLB-Kawika Mitchell, Gerris Wilkinson, Rocky Boiman, Reggie Torbor, Earl Everett

MLB-Antonio Pierce, Chase Blackburn

CB-Sam Madison, Corey Webster, RW McQuarters, Kevin Dockery, EJ Underwood

FS-Will Demps, Marvin White, James Butler

SS-Gibril Wilson, Jason Bell

K-Josh Huston

P-Jeff Feagles

LS-Ryan Kuehl

hugegmenfan
03-28-2007, 06:15 PM
Alright I am going to put up a rest of the offseason mock, let me know what you think.

Sign via FA

Rocky Boiman-OLB-1 year-$650,000

Boiman gives us another veteran yet younger LB that can play both outside spots. He is an excellent pass defender and special teamer that has the attittude the Reese is going after. By no means would this be a significant signing, but he'd be cheap and would be a nice role player.

Cuts

Tim Hasselbeck

Trades

Jim Finn to Jets for 6th round pick

2007 NFL Draft

1st round-Ted Ginn Jr.-Ohio State

I know this won't be the most popular pick amongst many of the guys here, but I don't care. I have been watching all the film I can get my hands on that have to do with the WRs in this draft and Ginn is amazing me. His speed is something that could take this offense to another level in so many ways. His route running and hands are underrated and will improve with time. His return ability alone could warrant a 1st round pick, but I think his game will translate very well into the NFL as a WR. We can get an Amani Toomer type WR in any draft, but to get a guy with the speed of Ginn is not possible more often than not. A lot of players do not play as fast as their 40 time, but Ginn plays faster than his 4.3 speed which is sick. Eli loves to throw the ball downfield and if Ginn is the one running those fly routes, you can bet your balls that this conenction would be lethal for years.

2nd round-Earl Everett-OLB-Florida

I have been on Everett's banwagon for quite some time now and I still think he will be a very good LB in the NFL despite a slower than expected appearence at the combine. Fact remains that he plays with speed when in pads and has the kind of team first, all out attitude you want on a team. A very good coverage LB that was often relied on to cover TEs by himself in college who can also apply some pressure on the QB and get into the backfield and be disruptive. He will compete with Wilkinson for the starting WILL job but until he gets a little bit stronger in the lower half, I don't think he could win that competition. However he would round out our need for depth at LB and could be starting by the middle of the season should Wilkinson not get the job done, which is what I expect.

3rd round-Paul Solai-DT-Utah

I love what Cofield and Seawright gave us this past year, and I am pretty sure they can play at the same level again in 2007. However, a lot of people do not realize how fortunate we were to have them healthy all year because that is a position that is pretty easy to get beat up at. Plus, it was apparent that both of them, especially Cofield, wore down late in the year and our run defense took a hit because of it. I think that adding another big body into the rotation is absolutely vital and I have zero confidence in Joseph or Seawright. Solai has a monstrous body but does not play slow, has the high motor type playing style that gets the most out of himself and those around him. You need to be strong in the trenches and I think Solai would complete our D-line to where it needs to be in terms of Championship caliber.

4th round-Marvin White-FS-TCU

You guys know my liking of White, as I have been preaching about him for quite awhile now. He is a very good coverage, centerfielder type safety that has a ton of tools to work with. He knows how to read an offense and make plays on the ball, very sure hands. He also hits like Gibril Wilson in the sense that he throws his body around and can lay the lumber on a ball carrier. I understand we are set at safety with Wilson and Demps, but I feel we are going to eventually need someone back there that is cover first, play the run second. I hate to say it, but the best course of action might be to let Wilson walk next year and slide Demps to SS, a role he appeared to be comfortable with in last year's hybrid safety scheme.

5th round-DeShawn Wynn-RB-Florida

We do have our two headed monster all set to go with Jacobs and Droughns ready to break some backs, but I still want a change of pace back that is capable of taking it the distance every time he gets his hands on the ball. We have talked about Wynn for awhile now and you have to love his combination of speed, quickness, and leg strength. He has a very well put together 225 pound frame that allows him to run in a physical manner, but he also has the explosion to outrun almost everyone on the field. I'd be a lot more secure watching him run with the ball than Ward.

6th round-Dustin Fry-G/C-Clemson

We need a backup interior lineman that cna bring some versatility. Fry was the key to Clemson's nasty running attack up front yet he receives very little recognition for it. He plays with the nasty side that all offensive lineman should play with and I cannot help but think of Rich Seubert when I watch him play. With Seubert starting at LG scenario, Fry would group with Ruegamer and Lentz as the backup interior linemen that could get the job done should someone go down.

6th round (from Jets)-Cory Anderson-FB-Tennessee

The Giants need more of power presence at fullback with this new style of running that Jacobcs and Droughns will offer. Anderson is a no nonsense, straight ahead bulldozer that does not lose the heads up battles with linebackers. He is also a very good pass blocker, much like a TE you could say and can catch balls out of the backfield just as good as Finn.

7th round-Chris Leak-QB-Florida

I don't care that Leak does not meet the stereotypical requirements for QBs int he NFL. His brains alone combined with his success in college are enough to warrant him a 7th round pick. All this talk of him going undrafted is garbage because even though he likely will not have a huge impact on the game field, his brains in the film room, even as a rookie, can help any team. I'd much rather have him as our third QB than Hasselbeck who other than having a hot wife, offers nothing to us.

7th round (comp)-Jake Nordin-TE-Northern Illinois

Not much to say about this pick, just a good blocker from TE with adequate 260+ size and strength. He won't offer anything in the passing game but we already are stocked on targets for Eli to throw to, we need someone can can produce from TE in the running attack.

DEPTH CHART

QB-Eli Manning, Jared Lorenzen, Chris Leak

RB-Brandon Jacobs, Reuben Droughns, DeShawn Wynn, Derrick Ward

FB-Cory Anderson

WR-Plaxico Burress, Amani Toomer, Ted Ginn Jr, Sinorice Moss, David Tyree

TE-Jeremy Shockey, Jake Nordin

OT-David Diehl, Kareem McKenzie, Guy Whimper

G-Chris Snee, Rich Seubert, Matt Lentz, Dustin Fry

C-Shaun O'Hara, Grey Ruegamer




DE-Michael Strahan, Osi Umenyiora, Mathias Kiwanuka, Justin Tuck

DT-Fred Robbins, Barry Cofield, Paul Solai, William Joseph, Jonas Seawright

OLB-Kawika Mitchell, Gerris Wilkinson, Rocky Boiman, Reggie Torbor, Earl Everett

MLB-Antonio Pierce, Chase Blackburn

CB-Sam Madison, Corey Webster, RW McQuarters, Kevin Dockery, EJ Underwood

FS-Will Demps, Marvin White, James Butler

SS-Gibril Wilson, Jason Bell

K-Josh Huston

P-Jeff Feagles

LS-Ryan Kuehl

Im not a fan of taking Ginn 1st round personally. I think hes too raw and we have too many other pressing needs that need to be taken care of. Hes an interesting prospect and definently is worth looking at but i dont think its the smartest move for our team. Because is very raw, chances are he wouldnt make the largest impact this year and i feel with this team and how we are aging a bit we need to win now. I love Earl Everett 2nd round- i think thats a fantastic pick, hes going to be a great player. 1st round CB should be addressed if we can get everett 2nd round, like revis houston or hall if available. I do not know anything about rocky boiman so if you could say what team he was on, stats, anything would be helpful. I also think o line needs to be addressed earlier also. Your mock is very interesting and has some good points, but i think the key positions need to be addressed first and foremost. The only WR outside of calvin johnson i would want round 1 is robert meachem- ginn is just too risky and we need to hit a homerun round 1.

Number 10
03-28-2007, 06:39 PM
I think there is too much of the stereotypical talk that we absolutely need to go LB/CB in the first two rounds. We already have plenty of promising youth at CB and I don't see a rookie coming in and getting anything better than a #4 spot on the depth chart. And that's only if he beats out Underwood and Dockery, both of which really impressed last season.

We are not in a win now mode as much as you think, our offensive line will take another year to develop and I think and we have plenty of youth on the D-line and at LB. Plus, when drafting you have to go BPA more often than not because the draft is more about the future than the present. Plus, Ginn's ability to make the immediate impact you want on special teams could be huge (See Devin Hester).

My point remains that possibly getting a player of Ginn's caluber at #20 won't come around very often.

ricky bobby
03-28-2007, 07:28 PM
Ginn would be an option IF we didn't take Sinorice Moss last year. I heard that Coughlin likes big recievers ever since his days in Jacksonville. I doubt we'll take two speed WRs in consecutive needs. We should stick to CB, Big WR, or OLB in round one. If we go OLB or CB in round one, we could look at a guy like Aundrae Allison, Steve Smith, Craig Davis, Anthony Gonzalez in round 2.

hugegmenfan
03-28-2007, 07:30 PM
Ginn would be an option IF we didn't take Sinorice Moss last year. I heard that Coughlin likes big recievers ever since his days in Jacksonville. I doubt we'll take two speed WRs in consecutive needs. We should stick to CB, Big WR, or OLB in round one. If we go OLB or CB in round one, we could look at a guy like Aundrae Allison, Steve Smith, Craig Davis, Anthony Gonzalez in round 2.

i think a guy like craig davis would be fine. Also Anthony Gonzalez also would b a nice fit. I do also think that taking a Wr simply based on what coughlin likes is ridiculous and i do not believe that is how we would choose one. The guy will probably be gone next year and is a lame duck: i do not know how much influence he really has left.

Number 10
03-28-2007, 07:36 PM
Ginn would be an option IF we didn't take Sinorice Moss last year. I heard that Coughlin likes big recievers ever since his days in Jacksonville. I doubt we'll take two speed WRs in consecutive needs. We should stick to CB, Big WR, or OLB in round one. If we go OLB or CB in round one, we could look at a guy like Aundrae Allison, Steve Smith, Craig Davis, Anthony Gonzalez in round 2.

1-Coughlin does not run the draft. Reese does. And Reese wants speed, speed, and more speed.

2-This offense needs more speed/gamebreaking ability even if Moss pans out to be solid.

3-Those WRs you mentioned aren't exactly big.

ricky bobby
03-28-2007, 07:46 PM
1-Coughlin does not run the draft. Reese does. And Reese wants speed, speed, and more speed.

2-This offense needs more speed/gamebreaking ability even if Moss pans out to be solid.

3-Those WRs you mentioned aren't exactly big.

Coaches still have some say in who they want.

I agree that we need speed on offense. In fact, the biggest issue last year was that our WRs couldn't get separation.

The wide recievers I mentioned aren't exactly small either. They are all right around 200 pounds. They all have good height, good hands, good speed. Add Jason Hill to that list also. I don't think Ginn can be a solid #2 reciever, because there is no way he is going over the middle at 178 pounds. That limits him to the same role that Moss is limited to, Slot WR and KR. While we do have a need at WR, we don't have a need at slot reciever.

GiantRutgersFan
03-28-2007, 07:50 PM
Ginn would be an option IF we didn't take Sinorice Moss last year. I heard that Coughlin likes big recievers ever since his days in Jacksonville. I doubt we'll take two speed WRs in consecutive needs. We should stick to CB, Big WR, or OLB in round one. If we go OLB or CB in round one, we could look at a guy like Aundrae Allison, Steve Smith, Craig Davis, Anthony Gonzalez in round 2.

I really think that we can set our sights higher then that in round 2 (except for Gonzalez and possibly Smith).

It wouldnt surprise me if teams, recognizing that there are about 6 guys with similar skills, that they hesitate thinking they can get a WR second round. I wouldnt be shocked if Sidney Rice, or even Dwayne Jarrett is available in the second (maybe we would have to trade up a few spots or so)

Number 10
03-28-2007, 07:52 PM
Coaches still have some say in who they want.

I agree that we need speed on offense. In fact, the biggest issue last year was that our WRs couldn't get separation.

The wide recievers I mentioned aren't exactly small either. They are all right around 200 pounds. They all have good height, good hands, good speed. Add Jason Hill to that list also. I don't think Ginn can be a solid #2 reciever, because there is no way he is going over the middle at 178 pounds. That limits him to the same role that Moss is limited to, Slot WR and KR. While we do have a need at WR, we don't have a need at slot reciever.


Moss can be effective over the middle as seen in his senior year at Miami. But anyway, Ginn's highlights are almost all him going deep but if you have the tapes on his games in their entirety, he was across the middle quite a bit. Tough kid too who will put his body out there and grab the ball. Putting him in the middle would really open up things downfield for Plax because his presence will always be on the minds of safeties, his speed is that unreal.

Plus, his return ability alone could be argued for 1st round credibility, many think he is better than Hester in that regard. Just keep that in mind.

hugegmenfan
03-28-2007, 07:58 PM
Moss can be effective over the middle as seen in his senior year at Miami. But anyway, Ginn's highlights are almost all him going deep but if you have the tapes on his games in their entirety, he was across the middle quite a bit. Tough kid too who will put his body out there and grab the ball. Putting him in the middle would really open up things downfield for Plax because his presence will always be on the minds of safeties, his speed is that unreal.

Plus, his return ability alone could be argued for 1st round credibility, many think he is better than Hester in that regard. Just keep that in mind.

He may be similar to Hester but to expect nearly what Hester did in returns this past year is stretching it. Id be perfectly happy with Steve Smith or Anthony Gonzalez- both of whom can make a big impact on our team. I dont see the necessity to stretch for a WR 1st round when we have other needs and get great quality a little later on.

ricky bobby
03-28-2007, 07:59 PM
Moss can be effective over the middle as seen in his senior year at Miami. But anyway, Ginn's highlights are almost all him going deep but if you have the tapes on his games in their entirety, he was across the middle quite a bit. Tough kid too who will put his body out there and grab the ball. Putting him in the middle would really open up things downfield for Plax because his presence will always be on the minds of safeties, his speed is that unreal.

Plus, his return ability alone could be argued for 1st round credibility, many think he is better than Hester in that regard. Just keep that in mind.

It's not about whether he has the courage to go across the middle, it's about whether his small frame can take that kind of beating. In college he could use his athleticism to get away from LBs and Safties in the middle, that won't happen in the NFL. There are only a select few small WRs that can handle the middle of the field. Our best bet is to draft a Amani Toomer clone. I know that doesn't sound very appealing, but a young Toomer would be great. Dwayne Jarrett posted a 4.67 and 4.62 at his workout, that drops him into round 2, and maybe all the way down to 51 overall considering how packed this WR class is.

Concerning return ability, I believe that the entire special teams unit is more important that the returner himself. Buzz lightyear himself wouldn't get anywhere returning with those guys blocking for him. There was absolutly no place to go.

Number 10
03-28-2007, 08:19 PM
It's not about whether he has the courage to go across the middle, it's about whether his small frame can take that kind of beating. In college he could use his athleticism to get away from LBs and Safties in the middle, that won't happen in the NFL. There are only a select few small WRs that can handle the middle of the field. Our best bet is to draft a Amani Toomer clone. I know that doesn't sound very appealing, but a young Toomer would be great. Dwayne Jarrett posted a 4.67 and 4.62 at his workout, that drops him into round 2, and maybe all the way down to 51 overall considering how packed this WR class is.

Concerning return ability, I believe that the entire special teams unit is more important that the returner himself. Buzz lightyear himself wouldn't get anywhere returning with those guys blocking for him. There was absolutly no place to go.


How many games did Ginn miss in college?

Forenci
03-28-2007, 08:55 PM
Don't take it personally when I say this Number 10, but I would punch Jerry Reese (as much as I love him for what he's done so far) right in the face if he drafted Ted Ginn Jr. in the first round for us.

Sure he's got great speed, but Sinorice offers that. Not only that, but the thing I believe that seprates Sinorice from Ginn is that Moss is not afraid to go up and grab the ball in the air, even if he is only 5'8. From I've seen from Ginn, and I've watched many Ohio State games with him playing and if a ball is high or out infront of him he doesn't make a real effort to go out and attack it.

It's why Steve Smith is such a great receiver in the NFL, not only because of his burning speed, but because he's not afraid to go up and grab the ball even though he hasn't got ideal height.

I'm really a fan of taking Brandon Myles out of West Virgina in the 4th round. Impressed me at the Senior Bowl a lot in the red zone and one on one drills. He's about 6 feet, and ran a 4.41. I think he's that perfectly balanced receiver we need. Has good speed, decent height and catches over the middle and in the redzone very well. Somewhat reminds me of a faster, slightly smaller Amani Toomer.

Number 10
03-28-2007, 11:13 PM
Don't take it personally when I say this Number 10, but I would punch Jerry Reese (as much as I love him for what he's done so far) right in the face if he drafted Ted Ginn Jr. in the first round for us.

Sure he's got great speed, but Sinorice offers that. Not only that, but the thing I believe that seprates Sinorice from Ginn is that Moss is not afraid to go up and grab the ball in the air, even if he is only 5'8. From I've seen from Ginn, and I've watched many Ohio State games with him playing and if a ball is high or out infront of him he doesn't make a real effort to go out and attack it.

It's why Steve Smith is such a great receiver in the NFL, not only because of his burning speed, but because he's not afraid to go up and grab the ball even though he hasn't got ideal height.

I'm really a fan of taking Brandon Myles out of West Virgina in the 4th round. Impressed me at the Senior Bowl a lot in the red zone and one on one drills. He's about 6 feet, and ran a 4.41. I think he's that perfectly balanced receiver we need. Has good speed, decent height and catches over the middle and in the redzone very well. Somewhat reminds me of a faster, slightly smaller Amani Toomer.

I don't take it personally at all....I think this would be a great pick.

Sinorice Moss is fast, so what? Having 2 burners on the field would pay huge dividends for Plax and Shockey, and you can never have too much speed on an offense. We haven't had enough speed on this team for way too long and putting Ginn on the roster for the next 10 years with Moss solves that. Speed is the most lethal weapon in football, and we need more of it. Ginn has speed that does not come around very often and we may be in a spot to grab him, can't pass him up.

GiantRutgersFan
03-28-2007, 11:32 PM
I wouldnt pass on Ginn either. At worst, he is gonna be a top 5 kick returner and a good slot reciever.

I think he will be a nice player. I didnt like the Moss pick cause he simply doesnt have the size.

But I think we need more size at WR. That seems to be what Eli likes

Giants Pride
03-29-2007, 08:09 AM
I wouldnt pass on Ginn either. At worst, he is gonna be a top 5 kick returner and a good slot reciever.

I think he will be a nice player. I didnt like the Moss pick cause he simply doesnt have the size.

But I think we need more size at WR. That seems to be what Eli likes

Disagree there. I like Ginn, but he is a boom or bust prospect. Even the best kick returners are only dominant for a 2-4 year stretch. Look at Dante Hall. He had a few great years and then faded. Also some of them (Az Hakim, Hester, Hall) never develope another niche. Ginn has better skills then those guys but he has almost as unpolished. Hes a hard worker, and will have some impact right away on ST but other then that he is a project.

If we traded back to 30 and got him I would be fine with it. I wouldn't use our #20 pick on anything other then a guy who will be a defensive starter (Houston, Nelson, Willis, Poz) day 1. There are too many good players that if "said player" isn't there I would trade back to 30-35 range and get 2 extra picks (2nd and a 3rd/4th or a 2nd next year).

NY+Giants=NYG
03-29-2007, 08:11 AM
Im not a fan of taking Ginn 1st round personally. I think hes too raw and we have too many other pressing needs that need to be taken care of. Hes an interesting prospect and definently is worth looking at but i dont think its the smartest move for our team. Because is very raw, chances are he wouldnt make the largest impact this year and i feel with this team and how we are aging a bit we need to win now. I love Earl Everett 2nd round- i think thats a fantastic pick, hes going to be a great player. 1st round CB should be addressed if we can get everett 2nd round, like revis houston or hall if available. I do not know anything about rocky boiman so if you could say what team he was on, stats, anything would be helpful. I also think o line needs to be addressed earlier also. Your mock is very interesting and has some good points, but i think the key positions need to be addressed first and foremost. The only WR outside of calvin johnson i would want round 1 is robert meachem- ginn is just too risky and we need to hit a homerun round 1.


I agree with you on the Ginn pick. Not a fan at all. As for the trade the Jets, I dont see them wanting Finn because they just signed Darian Barnes. But I am not a fan of Ginn and would actually be pissed if we got him or DJ.

ricky bobby
03-29-2007, 10:09 AM
I wouldnt pass on Ginn either. At worst, he is gonna be a top 5 kick returner and a good slot reciever.

[b]I think he will be a nice player. I didnt like the Moss pick cause he simply doesnt have the size. [/n]

But I think we need more size at WR. That seems to be what Eli likes

Moss 5'8" 180
Ginn 5'11" 178 - Even worse because he's lanky.

Number 10
03-29-2007, 10:43 AM
Moss 5'8" 180
Ginn 5'11" 178 - Even worse because he's lanky.

And we have Shockey and Burress as the big, possession type receivers already. Why add onto that?

GiantRutgersFan
03-29-2007, 11:55 AM
And we have Shockey and Burress as the big, possession type receivers already. Why add onto that?

Burress is not a possesion receiver... The guy is a game changer. same with Shockey, although to a lesser extent since hes a TE.


If we get a guy like Dwayne Jarrett, we are gonna have monsters at receiver. Toomer's 6 foot 3, Burress is 6 foot 5, Jarrett is 6 foot 4, plus Moss's blazing speed to switch it up a little.

Look at the Eagles for instance. They dont have a CB who's over 5-10. They only have 1 DB whos over 5-10 (Brian Dawkins, 6 foot)

ricky bobby
03-29-2007, 03:19 PM
I say we get a guy that's right in the middle 5-11 to 6-2 and between 190 and 210 with good speed and reliable hands. This draft is packed with those types of WRs. I don't understand why we'ed want another Sinorice Moss type of WR. If you follow my analogy, it's like adding Tony Hunt to the backfield. There is just no need for it.

Forenci
03-29-2007, 04:03 PM
See, my biggest problem with us taking Ginn in the first would be..we have other needs. I mean, can you truly say, even if Amani doesn't recover, that receiver is a first round need? I can't. We've got way too many other holes in our defense to even consider taking a receiver in the first day, much less the first round, doesn't seem like it's going to happen.

We can live with out a superb receiver to replace Burress and Amani, however, without a good corner we'll end up in the same frame as last year - doing well offensively and getting burnt on the defense

I'm actually a big fan of trading down to the Chargers, Bears, or Colts and perhaps picking up Joe Staley or Aaron Ross.

If we get someone like James Marten, Brandon Myles, and Durant/Bradley in the later rounds we could really take care of the needs.

Anyway you cut it though, receiver is not a first round need, I don't care how much speed Ginn brings to the table or how many points he scores, because it's not going to matter when your defense is getting beat deep or your quarterback is on his back.

Again, that's just my opinion, and you could be right, maybe we could use another burner, but at this point, if we can fill two or three holes we could be a good playoff contender this year.

Then next year we can pick up a good receiver in the first as it's looking to be pretty strong next year too.

ricky bobby
03-30-2007, 01:05 PM
http://the-omniscient.atspace.com/giantsmock.html

My new mock draft.

Damix
03-30-2007, 01:42 PM
Probably your best one.

ricky bobby
03-30-2007, 02:00 PM
Probably your best one.

Why thank you Damix. You just made my day. I feel so warm and cuddly inside.... I think i'm gonna cry.

I'm an idiot.

LTgiants
03-30-2007, 02:11 PM
the first 2 picks were really good and then it got alot worse as it went on

ricky bobby
03-30-2007, 02:14 PM
Can't please everyone. lol

NY+Giants=NYG
03-30-2007, 02:26 PM
In terms of upside and potential, who is the better prospect?

Revis, Timmons, Poz, Mecheam, Jarrett, Beason OR Ginn?

ricky bobby
03-30-2007, 03:08 PM
In this order

1. Timmons
2. Revis
3. Beason
4. Meachem
5. Jarrett
6.. Poz
7. Ginn

LTgiants
03-30-2007, 03:19 PM
1. Timmons
2. Revis
3. Beason
4. Meachem
4. Ginn
6. Jarrett
7. Poz

GiantRutgersFan
03-30-2007, 03:27 PM
In terms of upside and potential, who is the better prospect?

Revis, Timmons, Poz, Mecheam, Jarrett, Beason OR Ginn?


Ginn and Timmons probably have the most potential to improve...


But I dont think that means anything. Poz, Jarrett and Revis all had amazing college careers. I mean how much better can a guy who won awards for being the DPOY twice and an award for being the best linebacker in the nation get?

Or a guy who USC's all-time receptions leader and the Pacific 10 Conference's all-time leader in touchdown receptions

NY+Giants=NYG
03-30-2007, 03:31 PM
The reason I ask is I was talking to one of the sports writers, and he said from his opinion, he thinks the giants may go CB OR Wr in the first round, but will address WILL in the first day. ALso thinks that adding Mitchell gives us first round flexibility with our pick.

I am not a big mock guy, and dont really like them, but how does this sound.

1. WR
2. CB
3. LB

I dont know something like

Meachem
Wilson
Shaw/Bradley

This is basing it off what he said. I am not a big mock guy but perhaps we do that and go a different route than the Timmons, Poz pick most the media expect.

GiantRutgersFan
03-30-2007, 03:44 PM
The reason I ask is I was talking to one of the sports writers, and he said from his opinion, he thinks the giants may go CB OR Wr in the first round, but will address WILL in the first day. ALso thinks that adding Mitchell gives us first round flexibility with our pick.

I am not a big mock guy, and dont really like them, but how does this sound.

1. WR
2. CB
3. LB

I dont know something like

Meachem
Wilson
Shaw/Bradley

This is basing it off what he said. I am not a big mock guy but perhaps we do that and go a different route than the Timmons, Poz pick most the media expect.


I think it really depends on what the coaches think about Wilk, Blackburn, and Mitchell.

a 3rd round pick most likely isn't gonna be able to start right away, so it would really depend on whether they want to risk having 2 unproven players starting.


that said, It wouldnt shock me. I think CB, WR, and LB are the positions we are most likely to address on day one, possibly a safety or O-Line help

NY+Giants=NYG
03-30-2007, 03:47 PM
I think it really depends on what the coaches think about Wilk, Blackburn, and Mitchell.

a 3rd round pick most likely isn't gonna be able to start right away, so it would really depend on whether they want to risk having 2 unproven players starting.


that said, It wouldnt shock me. I think CB, WR, and LB are the positions we are most likely to address on day one, possibly a safety or O-Line help


He said he doesnt know if the team is sold on Wilk, so we could possible draft one and let them battle it out, but thinks CB and WR are most likely.

So it will be interesting i can say that. I am hoping for a LB, but expecting CB. If we go WR i think that would truly suprise me the most.

Forenci
03-30-2007, 05:08 PM
I actually quite like the new mock, Ricky Bobby.

Generally liked all the picks, and even the Craig Davis one despite the fact I'm not the biggest supporter of taking a receiver on the first day.

Also really loved the James Marten pick in the third. He might be a steal, and looks like he could shape up to be a good Left Tackle prospect, and at the very least gives us some depth if Diehl starts.


As for the idea of a CB or WR in the first, Shocking+Manning, I'm not so sure that happens. I agree I don't think we'll take a linebacker in the first unless we trade down to get one, but even then, I think cornerback is the most likely draft choice - because it seems to be that both Revis and Houston have starting potential right off the bat. At the very least they can do a good job at the Nickel back posistion.

NY+Giants=NYG
03-30-2007, 08:17 PM
I actually quite like the new mock, Ricky Bobby.

Generally liked all the picks, and even the Craig Davis one despite the fact I'm not the biggest supporter of taking a receiver on the first day.

Also really loved the James Marten pick in the third. He might be a steal, and looks like he could shape up to be a good Left Tackle prospect, and at the very least gives us some depth if Diehl starts.


As for the idea of a CB or WR in the first, Shocking+Manning, I'm not so sure that happens. I agree I don't think we'll take a linebacker in the first unless we trade down to get one, but even then, I think cornerback is the most likely draft choice - because it seems to be that both Revis and Houston have starting potential right off the bat. At the very least they can do a good job at the Nickel back posistion.

I mean, dont get me wrong I hope we get a LB, but CB and WR i think it boils down too. If we trade down than so be it, but it will be interesting how everything plays out.

Forenci
03-30-2007, 08:36 PM
I mean, dont get me wrong I hope we get a LB, but CB and WR i think it boils down too. If we trade down than so be it, but it will be interesting how everything plays out.

I agree, I think the draft day for the Giants will be very interesting watching it all play out, Jerry Reese has a lot of options he can make with us moving down.

Would love to get some more picks if we could.

Number 10
03-30-2007, 09:06 PM
In terms of upside, I don't understand how anyone can say Ginn does not have the highest out of those guys. His speed is world class and if he realizes his potential as a WR and avoids these speculated injuries you haters talk about, you're talking about an ubelievable career.

Number 10
03-30-2007, 09:07 PM
In terms of upside and potential, who is the better prospect?

Revis, Timmons, Poz, Mecheam, Jarrett, Beason OR Ginn?

And he here are my answers-

1-Ginn
2-Meachem
3-Revis
4-Timmons
5-Jarrett
6-Posluszny
7-Jarrett

Forenci
03-30-2007, 09:53 PM
In terms of upside, I don't understand how anyone can say Ginn does not have the highest out of those guys. His speed is world class and if he realizes his potential as a WR and avoids these speculated injuries you haters talk about, you're talking about an ubelievable career.

My concerns about him aren't really about his injuries, but more about his one dimensional game. I mean, almost all the plays I see him scoring on are deep seam routes. That might work in college, but in the pros an NFL safety and double coverage will make it much harder for him to do that.

Sure I've seen him take a few balls over the middle and out race everyone to the end zone. That's in college, not in the NFL - it won't be that easy anymore.

I'd also like to note that Scott himself answered on another site for the Giants that taking Ginn would be a bad idea for the Giants when we had Sinorice Moss all ready as our deep threat.

..and finally, I don't see how taking Ginn makes us better next year or in the years to come. Sure, maybe he'll take two or three touchdowns back in the kick return game, but when it comes down to it, that won't do much good when we're getting beat deep on defense.

Moss hasn't even had a chance to prove himself in either the kick return game or as a receiver. He took a couple of kicks and got it to the thirty a couple of times. Most of Hester's kicks did the same, so it's impossible to judge him off so few chances.

Now, if Moss had been with us for three or four years now, and hadn't done anything, I'd say sure..why not? We need to give him at least one full healthy year and let us hope that Gilbride will find a way to make sure his skills come into play.

Then, in next years draft, if the defensive picks worked out and we're in good shape at the offensive line, then let's go and get a good wide out in the first round. I mean, look at all the depth in this years draft for wide receiver. We can probably get a solid guy like Brandon Myles, Johnnie Lee Higgins or numerous other receivers that can step in an at the very least as a fourth wide receiver and be better than Tim Carter.

Sorry Number 10, I don't mean to come down so hard on you about Ginn - it's just I truly can't see us taking him in the first when we've got much more important needs on the offensive line, secondary and linebacker posistion. If for some reason he falls to us in the second, I'd be more than happy to get him.

Number 10
03-30-2007, 10:12 PM
Even though we all want that rookie that is going to come in and make the immediate impact that guys like Colsten, Ryans, Bush..etc had, the draft is about the future. Look at our WR corps right now.

Plax is a legit #1 threat but he is going to be 30, and has at least one spell of back spasms every year that keep him out of a game. Toomer is likely on his last leg, and then we have next to nothing. Look at what happened when Toomer went down...Eli had nothing to work with and it really made our offense take a step back.

Yeh you can talk about being patient with Moss and don't get me wrong, I still like him and think he can do some good things for us. But waiting a couple years and then drafting a WR won't do it for me because a guy like Ginn does not come around very often. His speed is world class and can do things most of us have never seen inside of Giants Stadium.

hugegmenfan
03-30-2007, 10:47 PM
Even though we all want that rookie that is going to come in and make the immediate impact that guys like Colsten, Ryans, Bush..etc had, the draft is about the future. Look at our WR corps right now.

Plax is a legit #1 threat but he is going to be 30, and has at least one spell of back spasms every year that keep him out of a game. Toomer is likely on his last leg, and then we have next to nothing. Look at what happened when Toomer went down...Eli had nothing to work with and it really made our offense take a step back.

Yeh you can talk about being patient with Moss and don't get me wrong, I still like him and think he can do some good things for us. But waiting a couple years and then drafting a WR won't do it for me because a guy like Ginn does not come around very often. His speed is world class and can do things most of us have never seen inside of Giants Stadium.

I totally understand where u are coming from- but why not next year? why not draft a great rookie WR 1st round next year. Im all for a WR in the 2nd or 3rd round if its a steal and a good pick, but i just think our defense needs to be shored up first. Teams win with defense. It has basically been a fact the past 10 super bowls or so with the exception of the colts, but even so their defense played amazing which is why they did win. if we could develop great young talent @ CB, OLB, we already have it @ the dline we could really be a force. The future @ WR can be addressed next year. Plax is 30 yes but 30 for a WR is not old. If we get a guy in the 2nd round lets say like if jarrett falls to us, however unlikely but possible, we can still do well on offense this year. It is obviously true that our WR do not run routes great and cannot separate from coverage but i think if moss can progress and play all year, plax, a healthy toomer and a good rookie will be fine this year

Number 10
03-30-2007, 11:11 PM
I totally understand where u are coming from- but why not next year? why not draft a great rookie WR 1st round next year. Im all for a WR in the 2nd or 3rd round if its a steal and a good pick, but i just think our defense needs to be shored up first. Teams win with defense. It has basically been a fact the past 10 super bowls or so with the exception of the colts, but even so their defense played amazing which is why they did win. if we could develop great young talent @ CB, OLB, we already have it @ the dline we could really be a force. The future @ WR can be addressed next year. Plax is 30 yes but 30 for a WR is not old. If we get a guy in the 2nd round lets say like if jarrett falls to us, however unlikely but possible, we can still do well on offense this year. It is obviously true that our WR do not run routes great and cannot separate from coverage but i think if moss can progress and play all year, plax, a healthy toomer and a good rookie will be fine this year

Because like I have said more than a few times, a prospect like Ginn is incredibly rare. There are not many instances where you are sitting at 20 and a player like Ginn is there to grab. We need more speed at WR, guys that can get seperation. We need guys that can make plays with the ball in their hand. We need a return man that can consistently get us good field position and put some points on the board. We need someone that can gain seperation for himself and our other targets so Eli doesn't have to fit the ball into tight spots all the time. We get all that with a guy like Ginn.

Forenci
03-30-2007, 11:21 PM
Even though we all want that rookie that is going to come in and make the immediate impact that guys like Colsten, Ryans, Bush..etc had, the draft is about the future. Look at our WR corps right now.

Plax is a legit #1 threat but he is going to be 30, and has at least one spell of back spasms every year that keep him out of a game. Toomer is likely on his last leg, and then we have next to nothing. Look at what happened when Toomer went down...Eli had nothing to work with and it really made our offense take a step back.

Yeh you can talk about being patient with Moss and don't get me wrong, I still like him and think he can do some good things for us. But waiting a couple years and then drafting a WR won't do it for me because a guy like Ginn does not come around very often. His speed is world class and can do things most of us have never seen inside of Giants Stadium.

I agree with what your saying to a certain point, but I don't see how us taking Ginn helps us in the future or next season. We've got potentially good player in Moss, Burress is 30 which as Hugegmenfan stated, isn't exceptionally old for a receiver, and it's impossible to tell how Amani will do, but it was only a minor tear - not a full blown ACL rupture.

I mean, I know Ted Ginn is fast, but speed among receivers isn't as rare as it use to be. More and more you see fast guys like Sinorice, Santana, Steve Smith and so on. All he really has is speed. I mean, he doesn't have great hands - they're good, but he'll drop some - he's not a great route runner (which Eli doesn't need), and he'll get stuffed in press coverage.

Having watched a lot of Ohio State games over the past year and I can say that he really is a one dimensional player at the receiver posistion and I think once he goes up against an NFL defense they'll keep him in check far more.

Why not sure up the defense and then draft a guy like Yamon Figurs in the fourth round? He's about the same size as Ginn and has comparable speed if that's what we need in a receiver.

Like I said though, Number 10, you make a good point and if our cornerback situation wasn't so terrible for this year (and more importantly, the future) I would really consider the Giants taking a guy like Ginn as a good thing, even though we've got Moss. That said, our Cornerback posistion is far worse off than our wide receiver posistion. Even if Webster does have a break out year, we've got two old guys in Madison and McQuarters for the future.

Just my opinion on Ginn though mind you..not neccesarily fact.

Damix
03-30-2007, 11:49 PM
Eli's struggles after Toomer went down can def be more attributed to Luke going down at the same time then Toomer

Number 10
03-31-2007, 12:07 AM
Eli's struggles after Toomer went down can def be more attributed to Luke going down at the same time then Toomer

The loss of Toomer had a much larger impact. I have watched each game about 5 times each this the season ended and I have to be honest, our play at LT after Petitgout was done really wasn't all that bad. Obvious downgrade by Whitfield was decent for 4-5 games as was Diehl. I can't say that about any WRs that tried to replace Amani. Our depth at WR is scary bad.

Go_Eli
03-31-2007, 01:04 AM
A few numbers....

The 5 weeks before Petitgout went down: 65.09 QB rating, 6 TDs, 6 INTs, 823 yards, 51.7%

After: 71.80 QB rating, 9 TDs, 7 INTs, 1,272 yards, 55.4%.

And in the 4 games before Toomer got hurt, he'd caught just 8 passes for 72 yards and 0 touchdowns (that's an average of 2 receptions for 18 yards). He didn't have any dropped passes and Eli completed 64% of his attempts to him.

(Taken from another forum)

Forenci
03-31-2007, 10:18 AM
The loss of Toomer had a much larger impact. I have watched each game about 5 times each this the season ended and I have to be honest, our play at LT after Petitgout was done really wasn't all that bad. Obvious downgrade by Whitfield was decent for 4-5 games as was Diehl. I can't say that about any WRs that tried to replace Amani. Our depth at WR is scary bad.

Again though, I don't understand how there's even a question on the wide receiver depth compared to the cornerback depth.

There is no question in my mind that cornerback needs help far more than receiver does. We've got some decent depth at receiver where if Madison gets injured again, who are we left with? Webster who hasn't proven him self yet (he may do well this year, may not) RW McQuarters? I don't know about you, but I'd be a lot happier with someone like Houston or Revis there for some much needed depth and the future. I mean, even if Amani goes down, at least we've got Sinorice, Plaxico and even David Tyree isn't the worst wide receiver I've ever seen if he needed to take the slot.

I mean, there is HUGE depth at wide receiver year, maybe the some of the best we've ever seen. Why not take a guy later in the second, third or fourth? Cornerback depth won't last that long for us, wide receiver depth in the draft will.

ricky bobby
03-31-2007, 10:38 AM
Again though, I don't understand how there's even a question on the wide receiver depth compared to the cornerback depth.

There is no question in my mind that cornerback needs help far more than receiver does. We've got some decent depth at receiver where if Madison gets injured again, who are we left with? Webster who hasn't proven him self yet (he may do well this year, may not) RW McQuarters? I don't know about you, but I'd be a lot happier with someone like Houston or Revis there for some much needed depth and the future. I mean, even if Amani goes down, at least we've got Sinorice, Plaxico and even David Tyree isn't the worst wide receiver I've ever seen if he needed to take the slot.

I mean, there is HUGE depth at wide receiver year, maybe the some of the best we've ever seen. Why not take a guy later in the second, third or fourth? Cornerback depth won't last that long for us, wide receiver depth in the draft will.
QFT

Great Minds think alike.

I'd go
1. CB
2. WR
3. OT
4. OLB
5. DT
6. TE
7. RB

Go_Eli
03-31-2007, 10:56 AM
A strong front seven can mask the shortcomings of any secondary. Look at what the secondary when the front seven was healthy.

Improve the front seven, grab a corner later if need be.

ricky bobby
03-31-2007, 11:11 AM
A strong front seven can mask the shortcomings of any secondary. Look at what the secondary when the front seven was healthy.

Improve the front seven, grab a corner later if need be.

That reasoning is ridiculous. We'll stop the run, but they'll tear us up through the air. We can't ignore the fact that 2 of our top 3 corners are 31 and 33 years old. They aren't gonna get any younger, no matter how much you try to "mask" it. We need to draft a top notch CB in round one, even if he has to sit for a year and develop for next season. There is absolutely no justifiable reason to not draft a CB in round one or two.

Forenci
03-31-2007, 11:31 AM
That reasoning is ridiculous. We'll stop the run, but they'll tear us up through the air. We can't ignore the fact that 2 of our top 3 corners are 31 and 33 years old. They aren't gonna get any younger, no matter how much you try to "mask" it. We need to draft a top notch CB in round one, even if he has to sit for a year and develop for next season. There is absolutely no justifiable reason to not draft a CB in round one or two.

Exactly. It doesn't matter how dominant your front seven is, your secondary will still get torn up if you've got decent or bad cornerbacks. Sure, Sam Madison is okay, but as Ricky Bobby said - he's old. RW McQuarters is not only old, but also below average as a cornerback.

I like Dockery quite a bit, and even if he does pan out, that leaves two aging veterans and who know's if Corey Webster pans out?

Our corners did do bad at the beginning of the year when everyone was healthy. They did better after the Bye week for a game or two, then got lit up again.

Look at the Chargers the past few years, they've been stacked at the front seven and their only weakness on defense has been in the secondary where they constantly gave up big plays and cost the Chargers a lot of games.

It wasn't until they finally took Cromartie last year in the first round did their pass defense significantly get better, and it was 13th overall this year.

Go_Eli
03-31-2007, 11:39 AM
Didn't the Giants win a Super Bowl with a cornerback nicknamed "Toast"?

And what ever happened to the love for Underwood and Dockery? They might not be number one corners, but they showed a lot during preseason (Underwood) and during the year (Dockery).

No matter how good your corners are, they can only cover for so long. Find a big DT who can push the pocket back and make opposing QBs throw off the back foot. The ends will generate pressure, but a DT who can stop the QB from stepping up will really help.

Also, the scheme is changing. I mean, really, how many corners looked good under Tim Lewis EVER? He tried to turn Webster into something he's not and everyone could see it but him!

ricky bobby
03-31-2007, 12:09 PM
You are thinking short term. We need to look at the positions that are old on our team, and upgrade them ASAP. Those positions are CB and WR. By that reasoning we should go CB and WR in rounds 1 and 2.

Go_Eli
03-31-2007, 12:27 PM
You are thinking short term. We need to look at the positions that are old on our team, and upgrade them ASAP. Those positions are CB and WR. By that reasoning we should go CB and WR in rounds 1 and 2.

Underwood is young. Dockery is young. Webster will improve. He's young.

Who do the Giants have at DT? Robbins isn't a spring chicken, Joseph is inconsistent, Seawright isn't starter material. All the Giants have, long term, for DT is Cofield. Don't say Tuck - he'll see DT on obvious passing downs, but he's not DT.

Damix
03-31-2007, 12:32 PM
Underwood is young. Dockery is young. Webster will improve. He's young.

Who do the Giants have at DT? Robbins isn't a spring chicken, Joseph is inconsistent, Seawright isn't starter material. All the Giants have, long term, for DT is Cofield. Don't say Tuck - he'll see DT on obvious passing downs, but he's not DT.



We're going to count on UDFA to be our future? Thats never smart. CB needs to be our 1st round pick. LB can wait, just need to add another body, DT can def wait, our line coach has shown he can take people and plug them in, DE is obviously not a need (hell we said that last year =P)

If your gonna say we have Underwood and Dockery then you can't go and say Seawright is nothing.

hugegmenfan
03-31-2007, 12:44 PM
We're going to count on UDFA to be our future? Thats never smart. CB needs to be our 1st round pick. LB can wait, just need to add another body, DT can def wait, our line coach has shown he can take people and plug them in, DE is obviously not a need (hell we said that last year =P)

If your gonna say we have Underwood and Dockery then you can't go and say Seawright is nothing.

Exactly- im sorry underwood has never played and who knows if the guy is going to b even decent, let alone good so u cant say its ok to not draft a CB because we have him. Dockery played really well last year, surprisingly so, and we should def monitor how he does but we still need a young standout rookie to come in for sure.

Go_Eli
03-31-2007, 01:07 PM
Underwood was playing with the first team during the preseason, then went down with injury. Blessing in disguise because the Giants were able to keep Underwood and Dockery instead of letting one of them be snatched off the practice squad.

CB shouldn't be the first need. Again, if the front seven doesn't get pressure on the QB...any CB will get torched. You can only cover for so long and in today's game, with the rules the way they are, it's very tough.

Corey Webster, the scapegoat of the Giants secondary, looked good when the pressure was on the QB. How good will a rookie CB be when the QB has all day to set up, look down the field, and not worry about the pressure? Pretty terrible.

And Underwood actually looked good in the preseason. Seawright looked awful all year.

scottyboy
03-31-2007, 01:22 PM
actually go eli i feel the safeties were the scapegoats because of the lack of speed at CB around them. Granted we dont need another Will A who was fast as he!! but needed to improve at covering, but webster, madison and mcquarters are not fast. A speedy CB or a LB who can cover TE's would really help. It all depends how we use gerris. Is he gonna be the one covering TE's? if so bring in a pass rushing OLB and if gerris wont, bring in a guy who will cover well.

ricky bobby
03-31-2007, 01:26 PM
I hope Seawright develops. I absolutely love big DTs and he has size comparable to Marcus Stroud. I hope we draft another Big Body DT and let Joseph hit the road.

Go_Eli
03-31-2007, 01:34 PM
I hope Seawright develops. I absolutely love big DTs and he has size comparable to Marcus Stroud. I hope we draft another Big Body DT and let Joseph hit the road.

But how long do we wait for Seawright to develop? He's been with the Giants two years now I believe. Two full years of NFL weight training and coaching.

Jospeh is good depth who can play DT and DE. I'd let Seawright walk way before Joseph.

GiantRutgersFan
03-31-2007, 02:38 PM
You are thinking short term. We need to look at the positions that are old on our team, and upgrade them ASAP. Those positions are CB and WR. By that reasoning we should go CB and WR in rounds 1 and 2.

no....


Young doesnt equal good fella.


I think we ought to draft a CB in the 2nd or 3rd.


Our new scheme is gonna help a great deal. Willy Demps really came on at the end of the year and should be a help to our backfield.


I think we should draft a 3rd round CB and just go with what we got for this season, see what develops between Webster, Underwood and Dockery, then sign a proven CB next offseason if needed.

all of our holes arent gonna be filled this offseason and I would float CB to next offseason.

ricky bobby
03-31-2007, 03:26 PM
no....


Young doesnt equal good fella.


I think we ought to draft a CB in the 2nd or 3rd.


Our new scheme is gonna help a great deal. Willy Demps really came on at the end of the year and should be a help to our backfield.


I think we should draft a 3rd round CB and just go with what we got for this season, see what develops between Webster, Underwood and Dockery, then sign a proven CB next offseason if needed.

all of our holes arent gonna be filled this offseason and I would float CB to next offseason.

Reese wants to get young, faster and healthier. The two positions where we are old and unhealthy are CB and WR. I know young doesn't mean talent. That's why I proposed that we spend our 1st and 2nd round picks on those positions so we'd get young and good. You are completely contradicting yourself by bringing Dockery and Underwood into the conversation. We can't count on them to develop. They were UDFA for a reason. Also, if we "float" CB to next offseason, we'd be scrambling to find a starter. That will result in us overpaying for a CB in the FA, or forcing us to draft a CB in round 1 of next year and plug him into the starting lineup whether he is ready or not. I propose that we draft one in round 1 this year and that way if he is not ready to start right away, Madison and McQuarters can still be servicable. They won't be servicable next year at the age of 34 and 32. I'm not sure if you can follow all of that. It's my stream of Consciousness.

Number 10
03-31-2007, 05:37 PM
Again though, I don't understand how there's even a question on the wide receiver depth compared to the cornerback depth.

There is no question in my mind that cornerback needs help far more than receiver does. We've got some decent depth at receiver where if Madison gets injured again, who are we left with? Webster who hasn't proven him self yet (he may do well this year, may not) RW McQuarters? I don't know about you, but I'd be a lot happier with someone like Houston or Revis there for some much needed depth and the future. I mean, even if Amani goes down, at least we've got Sinorice, Plaxico and even David Tyree isn't the worst wide receiver I've ever seen if he needed to take the slot.

I mean, there is HUGE depth at wide receiver year, maybe the some of the best we've ever seen. Why not take a guy later in the second, third or fourth? Cornerback depth won't last that long for us, wide receiver depth in the draft will.


A couple things.

Dockery left a lasting impression in my mind and while I am not banking on him to solve our issues at CB, he has a lot of potential as a nickel CB. And Underwood apparantly was beating out or close to beating out McQuarters last year as the team's #3 CB and combining that with the fact that Tressel said his ceiling was higher than any other Ohio State CB he has ever coached tells me we may have gotten gift there. I am not saying we should ignore CB in the draft and I have said many times I would not mind Ross or Revis in the 1st at all....but those guys aren't rare players. Ginn is a rare player. And don't get out of hand with this "There is more depth at WR than there has ever been before" talk....There is good depth at WR but it is not outstanding.

LTgiants
04-01-2007, 12:01 PM
What does everyone think about this draft?

1 Jon Beason
2 Marcus Mccauley
3 Arron Sears
4 Brandon Myles
5 Paul Solai
6 Justin Medlock
7 Le'Ron McClain
7 J.D. Nelson

GiantRutgersFan
04-01-2007, 12:41 PM
What does everyone think about this draft?

1 Jon Beason
2 Marcus Mccauley
3 Arron Sears
4 Brandon Myles
5 Paul Solai
6 Justin Medlock
7 Le'Ron McClain
7 J.D. Nelson

not very realistic, but I would like it

ricky bobby
04-01-2007, 12:48 PM
What does everyone think about this draft?

1 Jon Beason
2 Marcus Mccauley
3 Arron Sears
4 Brandon Myles
5 Paul Solai
6 Justin Medlock
7 Le'Ron McClain
7 J.D. Nelson

1. Beason is alright
2. Don't like McCauley. Overrated, no college production.
3. Sears won't last that long
4. I'd rather have Laurent Robinson, or Mike Walker
5. Ok
6. Ok
7. Rather have a TE
7. Ok i guess

Damix
04-01-2007, 01:01 PM
McCauley had a lot of production his junior year and still has all the tools you want.

Number 10
04-01-2007, 01:21 PM
What does everyone think about this draft?

1 Jon Beason
2 Marcus Mccauley
3 Arron Sears
4 Brandon Myles
5 Paul Solai
6 Justin Medlock
7 Le'Ron McClain
7 J.D. Nelson

Sears-Solai-McClain will all go earlier than where you have them.

scottyboy
04-01-2007, 04:34 PM
number 10, i have to disagree with you about ginn. He is a true playmaker with blazing speed, but i feel his height and durability may hurt him. We have moss as our burner and i see ginn being more of a dante hall in the NFL. an amazing returner and just an average wr. i could be wrong, but i feel if we went WR early, it would need to be a solid, hard working, big, good hands kinda guy who would work with eli(a guy like toomer) i feel we have bigger needs to get a guy like ginn. He and a guy like leonard in round 2 would be great, but those are luxury picks IMO

hugegmenfan
04-01-2007, 04:58 PM
the only round 1 wrs i would want:
calvin johnson
dwayne bowe
robert meachem

i agree scotty boy- i think ginn is going to b a dante hall type. He could wind up being much better but at this stage i feel we need a guy who is not scared to go over the middle and that can catch the ball

Number 10
04-01-2007, 07:06 PM
number 10, i have to disagree with you about ginn. He is a true playmaker with blazing speed, but i feel his height and durability may hurt him. We have moss as our burner and i see ginn being more of a dante hall in the NFL. an amazing returner and just an average wr. i could be wrong, but i feel if we went WR early, it would need to be a solid, hard working, big, good hands kinda guy who would work with eli(a guy like toomer) i feel we have bigger needs to get a guy like ginn. He and a guy like leonard in round 2 would be great, but those are luxury picks IMO

The issue with our passing game last year even with Toomer was that nobody gets seperation. I look at tapes of the best offenses in the league and there is one common denominator, seperation. Guys get open whether it be the scheme or the speed and explosiveness that is on the field. Moss is fast but I am not sure he could get the kind of seperation for Plax and Shockey that Ginn can.

And all of this durability crap is ludicrous....again tell me where it has been an issue in his 3 years at Ohio State. He is a tough kid.

ricky bobby
04-01-2007, 07:16 PM
The issue with our passing game last year even with Toomer was that nobody gets seperation. I look at tapes of the best offenses in the league and there is one common denominator, seperation. Guys get open whether it be the scheme or the speed and explosiveness that is on the field. Moss is fast but I am not sure he could get the kind of seperation for Plax and Shockey that Ginn can.

And all of this durability crap is ludicrous....again tell me where it has been an issue in his 3 years at Ohio State. He is a tough kid.

If you want a speed guy, we can get Andrae Allison, Jason Hill or Steve Smith in round 2. In round three we can get Mike Walker or Laurent Robinson. This WR class is packed with speed and talent. We don't need to spend our 1st round pick on a 178 pound one dimensional WR.

Number 10
04-01-2007, 07:19 PM
If you want a speed guy, we can get Andrae Allison, Jason Hill or Steve Smith in round 2. In round three we can get Mike Walker or Laurent Robinson. This WR class is packed with speed and talent. We don't need to spend our 1st round pick on a 178 pound one dimensional WR.

Ginn is a rare player though, those other guys are average, any year type WRs.

Ginn is not one dimensional for the 100th time but I guess you can't get that through your thick, stubborn head.

ricky bobby
04-01-2007, 07:27 PM
Ginn is a rare player though, those other guys are average, any year type WRs.

Ginn is not one dimensional for the 100th time but I guess you can't get that through your thick, stubborn head.

No need to get offensive. What I mean by one dimensional is that he is a speed WR, nothing more. Allison, Smith, Hill, Robinson, and Walker all have decent size and great speed to go along with it. Those guys can be a threat across the middle of the field, Ginn cannot. I know he went over the middle in college sometimes, but that was because he was head and shoulders above everybody else speed wise. That won't be the case in the NFL. He won't be able to consistantly go across the middle and take that kind of pounding. Ginn doesn't run great routes, he doesn't have great size, he doesn't deserve to be picked 20th overall. Anthony Gonzalez is a more complete WR than Ginn. How on earth can you have us taking Ginn when guys like Bowe and Meachem are still available?

Number 10
04-01-2007, 07:35 PM
No need to get offensive. What I mean by one dimensional is that he is a speed WR, nothing more. Allison, Smith, Hill, Robinson, and Walker all have decent size and great speed to go along with it. Those guys can be a threat across the middle of the field, Ginn cannot. I know he went over the middle in college sometimes, but that was because he was head and shoulders above everybody else speed wise. That won't be the case in the NFL. He won't be able to consistantly go across the middle and take that kind of pounding. Ginn doesn't run great routes, he doesn't have great size, he doesn't deserve to be picked 20th overall. Anthony Gonzalez is a more complete WR than Ginn. How on earth can you have us taking Ginn when guys like Bowe and Meachem are still available?


How many times do I have to say that Ginn is a rare player, those others are not.

Tim Carter is a one dimensional, speed WR that does not do anything else to help a team win. Ginn will stretch the field for Plax and Shockey, get seperation for whoever is on the field, will make our return game one of the most feared in the league. Ginn also brings a lot to the table in the screen game, reverse game, and quick slant game. His route running took a huge step forward this past season and will only get better. So he won't go across the middle 4 times a game? So what!! We have Shockey, Plax, and Toomer that can do that right now and finding an over the middle WR is incredibly easy to do. You view Ginn as a guy that will stay out wide every play and just run a fly pattern, and you are completely wrong. He will do so many things for an offense when he doesn't have the ball in his hands and when he does get the ball in his hands....he is incredible.

ricky bobby
04-01-2007, 07:56 PM
How many times do I have to say that Ginn is a rare player, those others are not.

Tim Carter is a one dimensional, speed WR that does not do anything else to help a team win. Ginn will stretch the field for Plax and Shockey, get seperation for whoever is on the field, will make our return game one of the most feared in the league. Ginn also brings a lot to the table in the screen game, reverse game, and quick slant game. His route running took a huge step forward this past season and will only get better. So he won't go across the middle 4 times a game? So what!! We have Shockey, Plax, and Toomer that can do that right now and finding an over the middle WR is incredibly easy to do. You view Ginn as a guy that will stay out wide every play and just run a fly pattern, and you are completely wrong. He will do so many things for an offense when he doesn't have the ball in his hands and when he does get the ball in his hands....he is incredible.

Explain how he is rare.

And Sinorice Moss will do all of those things for us.

Number 10
04-01-2007, 08:06 PM
Explain how he is rare.

And Sinorice Moss will do all of those things for us.

His speed is rare, it isn't common to have an opportunity to get a player like him while we have a need at WR at #20 overall. His big play ability is something that has to be accounted for play after play.

I like Moss but his speed is not in Ginn's class and he does not move as well as Ginn does with the ball in his hands.

GiantRutgersFan
04-01-2007, 08:31 PM
Sinorice Moss is no where near Ginn.

However, with that said, they are similar and I doubt we draft Ginn. I doubt we even draft a WR in the first round.


But Ginn would help our offense out a lot. Eli throws a great deep ball and if Ginn could consistently get seperation downfield, it could be pretty deadly. It would also help our other Recievers a hell of a lot.

hugegmenfan
04-01-2007, 08:31 PM
His speed is rare, it isn't common to have an opportunity to get a player like him while we have a need at WR at #20 overall. His big play ability is something that has to be accounted for play after play.

I like Moss but his speed is not in Ginn's class and he does not move as well as Ginn does with the ball in his hands.

Moss ran a 4.38 40 yard dash
Ted Ginn Jr 4.35 40 yard dash

I would hardly say Moss's speed is not in Ginn's class: they are both in the 4.3 range which is impressive and moss probably has better hands then ginn.
I do not think Ginn is the type of player we need truthfully. Yes it would be great to have him, but @ the 20th pick i think it would b a great opporunity to strengthen the team in more important areas which ginn cannot fulfill.
I dont wanna compare the two because ginn is def more of a playmaker and def better in college but i do not think he is something out of the oridinary which no other wr can fill

Number 10
04-01-2007, 08:35 PM
Moss ran a 4.38 40 yard dash
Ted Ginn Jr 4.35 40 yard dash

I would hardly say Moss's speed is not in Ginn's class: they are both in the 4.3 range which is impressive and moss probably has better hands then ginn.
I do not think Ginn is the type of player we need truthfully. Yes it would be great to have him, but @ the 20th pick i think it would b a great opporunity to strengthen the team in more important areas which ginn cannot fulfill.
I dont wanna compare the two because ginn is def more of a playmaker and def better in college but i do not think he is something out of the oridinary which no other wr can fill

And Aundrae Allison ran a 4.39...I guess his speed is in the same class as Ginn too.

Don't start throwing 40 times at me because they are meaningless, absolutely meaningless. Watch some tape and then tell me they have similar speed.

Ginn's speed is dictated by who is on the field because he will outrun anyone that gets into a foot race with him. Anyone. Can't say that about Moss.

scottyboy
04-01-2007, 08:47 PM
40 times are garbage, i could really care less about them. Ginn is an exceptional player with his speed and running ability, but he isnt what we need now. number 10, he is different than the before mentioned players, but we dont need him. we need another possession WR with plax and toomer for insuance as toomer is aging. i have faith in moss too. ginn will be a huge deep threat in the NFL along with KR/PR, but i feel he wont be the kinda guy we need to go over the middle and go up nd get a high throw.

ricky bobby
04-01-2007, 09:03 PM
If we draft Ginn in round one, I will wear the quote "I am an idiot" in my signature for an entire year.

Number 10
04-01-2007, 09:30 PM
40 times are garbage, i could really care less about them. Ginn is an exceptional player with his speed and running ability, but he isnt what we need now. number 10, he is different than the before mentioned players, but we dont need him. we need another possession WR with plax and toomer for insuance as toomer is aging. i have faith in moss too. ginn will be a huge deep threat in the NFL along with KR/PR, but i feel he wont be the kinda guy we need to go over the middle and go up nd get a high throw.

That's simply where I disagree, if we bring in another posession receiver we will continue to force Eli to fit the ball into tight spots because nobody can get the seperation he needs. And our speed downfield threat is 5'8 which could work, but I don't see Moss being that threat that Eli can grow with. Ginn gives Eli more room to work with a player that he can fall in love with when throwing the deep ball. From what I see out of Eli, he needs someone like Ginn.

Jughead10
04-02-2007, 07:13 AM
I really don't want Ginn. To me the guy just isn't a football player. He is a track star. He would instantly have the worst hands on our team. I'd take his teammate Gonzalez over him any day of the week.

Giants Pride
04-02-2007, 12:03 PM
I really don't want Ginn. To me the guy just isn't a football player. He is a track star. He would instantly have the worst hands on our team. I'd take his teammate Gonzalez over him any day of the week.

I would take Ginn over Gonzalez, my problem with Ginn is that he is the exact worst type player for this team to pick. That is a boom or bust guy at a position that is at best our 6th need. Ginn is a perfect pick for the Patriots. A team that can add a dimension to their offense by giving him a few specific packages and letting him return kicks. Does anyone have any confidence that our coaches would know how to utilize Ginn best? They dont even know how to use Eli and he has been here for 4 years now.

ricky bobby
04-02-2007, 12:44 PM
I would take Ginn over Gonzalez, my problem with Ginn is that he is the exact worst type player for this team to pick. That is a boom or bust guy at a position that is at best our 6th need. Ginn is a perfect pick for the Patriots. A team that can add a dimension to their offense by giving him a few specific packages and letting him return kicks. Does anyone have any confidence that our coaches would know how to utilize Ginn best? They dont even know how to use Eli and he has been here for 4 years now.
Ginn would fit in nicely with a west coast offense team. He'd be a nice fit for the Eagles or the Chiefs, or Seahawks. I don't think that he would fit well into the offensive system we are trying to establish. We are going to be a running team next year. We're going to line up Brandon Jacobs and punish the defense on most of our downs. We'll be running a system with 2 WRs, 2 TEs and Brandon Jacobs. We need guys that can run block. I'm starting to like Dwayne Bowe a bit due to his muscular frame that reminds me of TO. I'm not even sure how Moss is going to fit into our offense. He'll probably come in on 3 and longs and only for trick plays such as reverses. Moss and Ginn are complete clones of each other as far as i'm concerned, and there is no room on our offense for both of them. Therefore, Ginn would be a complete waste of a pick IMO. I wouldn't take Gonzalez in the first round either.

Forenci
04-02-2007, 12:46 PM
How many times do I have to say that Ginn is a rare player, those others are not.

Tim Carter is a one dimensional, speed WR that does not do anything else to help a team win. Ginn will stretch the field for Plax and Shockey, get seperation for whoever is on the field, will make our return game one of the most feared in the league. Ginn also brings a lot to the table in the screen game, reverse game, and quick slant game. His route running took a huge step forward this past season and will only get better. So he won't go across the middle 4 times a game? So what!! We have Shockey, Plax, and Toomer that can do that right now and finding an over the middle WR is incredibly easy to do. You view Ginn as a guy that will stay out wide every play and just run a fly pattern, and you are completely wrong. He will do so many things for an offense when he doesn't have the ball in his hands and when he does get the ball in his hands....he is incredible.

What you said at the end of that post was is exactly a huge misconception about Ginn. He is not very elusive when he gets the ball in his hands. Most people think so because well, he's fast, and he can return kicks. Here's the thing though, I watched about eight Ohio State games last year, and any time he returned a kick or caught a ball of the middle for a touch down he scored because he was fast, not elusive. Having pure speed in the NFL is worthless if you don't have elusiveness and body control to go along with it. Both of which he does not.

I've seen many occasions on tape where he gets the ball in his hands on a screen or quick route, and there will be a defender infront of him that he could easily burn, but for some reason he'll just stand there looking for what direction to go in whilst he's getting tackled.

Listen, I can understand why you like Ginn so much Number 10, but I think you're liking him so much because of his speed as you mentioned many times before as being world class. When you focus on and like a player for just one aspect, it's when you'll end up with a bust on your hands. All of his other skills as a receiver are average, if not below average. He doesn't have great hands, just decent hands. His route running is below average, he gets more credit than he deserves for good route running because he runs the deep routes so well. He does not do well over the middle except when the linebackers are in zone or are backed up and he has the oppurtunity to use his speed to out run them and avoid the hit. That will not happen nearly as much in the NFL.

Having watched many Ohio State games, some several times, I can definently say he is a good athlete, but by no means is he a rare player. Calvin Johnson is a rare player. He's got superb speed, amazing height, great hands and body control. Now that's a rare player. Ginn is a good player, not a great or rare player. Rare speed? Perhaps, but a receiver with great speed means nothing if he doesn't have the other tools it takes to be a good wide out.

ricky bobby
04-02-2007, 03:21 PM
Looks like Number 10 is the only fan of Ginn in round 1.

LTgiants
04-02-2007, 03:32 PM
i wouldnt be opposed to drafting ginn in the 1st round. so i guess you can say i am a fan of ginn in round 1 but i am not as big a fan as number 10 is

ricky bobby
04-02-2007, 03:34 PM
i wouldnt be opposed to drafting ginn in the 1st round. so i guess you can say i am a fan of ginn in round 1 but i am not as big a fan as number 10 is

But even you, the least respected giants poster (i'm just messing), would agree that we have better options in round one.

Forenci
04-02-2007, 03:44 PM
I think most people feel like we've got better options and needs in Round 1. I think if Ginn was even available to us in the second, I wouldn't be a fan of taking him just because he's almost exactly the opposite of what we need in a replacement for whenever Amani decides to retire, which I hope he does not any time soon considering he's one of my all-time favorite Giants players.

We need a receiver with good height, it doesn't need to be Plaxico's size, but at least 6'1, 6'2 would be good. Good hands are a must also, along with some good speed.

I really like the options of Brandon Myles, Mike Walker or Laurent Robinson in the late rounds. That or if they're around in the second, Jason Hill or Craig Davis. Jason reminds me of Amani, an extremely smart and bright guy who plays well. He's faster and shorter than Amani, but still I like him.

scottyboy
04-02-2007, 03:54 PM
number 10, i feel eli NEEDS a big possesion WR. He can throw it high(which he already does) to his big WR's. Fast WR's just dont run streak or post routes down field where eli can heave a bomb. he needs reliable guys short to pick up 3rd and 6s

Number 10
04-02-2007, 04:12 PM
number 10, i feel eli NEEDS a big possesion WR. He can throw it high(which he already does) to his big WR's. Fast WR's just dont run streak or post routes down field where eli can heave a bomb. he needs reliable guys short to pick up 3rd and 6s

Eli has 2 big WRs and a big TE....where has it gotten him?

He needs someone he can consistently rely on to throw the ball downfield to.

Number 10
04-02-2007, 04:14 PM
And some of you are misinterpreting what I am saying about Ginn. He is my #1 choice as of right now but I would be very happy with a handful of players at #20. Give me Poz, Ross, Nelson, Timmons, maybe Houston and I'll be happy.

Giants Pride
04-02-2007, 04:18 PM
Here is how I would finish off this offseason.

UFA - DT Ian Scott 2 years 3 mil - Run stuffer, depth rotational guy

RFA - WLB Demorrio Williams 4 years 22 mil (received a 2nd round tender from the Falcons) - Speedy playmaker we have be devoid of since Armstead left. As good as anybody we could pick in the 2nd round. Has never missed a game and has had solid production the past 2 years for an inconsistent defense.

Draft

Trade pick 20 for the picks 33, 65, and a 4th

2(33)- OT Tony Ugoh
2(52)- FS Eric Weddle
3(65)- RB Lorenzo Booker
3(84)- LB Quincy Black
4- CB Tarrell Brown
4- DT Paul Sollai
5- WR Mike Walker
6- FB Cory Anderson
7- TE Anthony Pudewell
7- WR Derek Stanley

Depth Chart

QB - Manning
RB - BJ, Droughns, Booker, Ward
FB - Anderson
WR - Plax, Toomer, Moss, Jennings, Walker, Tyree
TE - Shockey, Pudewell
OT - Diehl, McKenzie, Ugoh, Whimper
OG - Seubert, Snee, Lehr
C - O'Hara, Reugemer

DE - Strahan, Osi, Kiwi, Tuck
DT - Robbins, Cofield, Scott, Sollai
OLB - Williams, Mitchell, Black, Torbor, Wilkinson
MLB - Pierce, Blackburn
CB - Madison, Webster, Brown, Underwood, Dockery, Mc4ers
FS - Demps, Weddle
SS - Wilson, Butler

The most significant move was signing Demorio Williams to an offer sheet. In the past 3 seasons he has played in every game, and in 2 years as a starter he has had 127 tackles and 97 tackles respectively. Over that time he has also played behind some good players like Ed Hartwell, Abraham, and Brooking. He has also had about 3 sacks/year and 1 or 2 ints. He is a guy who makes plays all over the field and that is exactly what we need. He is just turning 27 also so he definitely has 3-4 prime years ahead of him.

Ian Scott gives us depth at DT and adds a rotational guy who is stout at the POA.

Adding Williams gives us a ton of flexibility at the draft because we then have no glaring needs. Maybe CB, but that position is so deep that I think it would be prudent to add a mid round guy considering how risky 1st rd CBs tend to be.

That said I would trade back 10-15 spots because I think there will be a guy who we may discuss at #20 still on the board and we could recoup the pick we gave up for Williams and add another pick in the process. In my mock I went with Tony Ugoh simply because he has a ton of experience against the SEC. He should come in right away and compete with Diehl. it also gives us good depth at one of the most important positions, the OL. Staley, Sears, Grubbs, and Beekman are all options, it simply depends on our scouts opinions of those players as well as the players currently on the team. There could also be a great value pick available as well like a Meachem, Jarrett, Bowe, Griffin, Merriweather, Timmons available.

Obviously it is impossible to predict who will be available in mocks so the rest of the picks are guys I targeted.

Weddle is a pure centerfielder. He makes plays and he is a great character player. We definately need someone with smarts back there. Alexander was slower then Leonard Davis but he somehow made an impact with his ability to put people in the right spots.

Booker to me = Reggie Bush. Both are thoroughbreds athletically who arent exactly pure HB's because of their skill receiving. If used like Bush, there is no doubt in my mind he can be just as effective.

Black intrigues me with his measureables, tackling ability, and position flexibility. Should be a good special teamer right away. Both he and Wilkinson could theoretically beat out Mitchell in camp.

Sollai is a potential NT.

The most underrated stat for a WR is catches. Everyone forgets that production is important. He had 90 last year. No matter who you are playing you need to catch the damn ball. Add in his size and 40 time and this could be a steal. (Mike Walker that is)

Cory Anderson gives us a great blocking FB with size and Pudewell gives us a blocking TE.

ricky bobby
04-02-2007, 04:19 PM
Eli has 2 big WRs and a big TE....where has it gotten him?

He needs someone he can consistently rely on to throw the ball downfield to.

Toomer 33 years old, Plax 30 years old, not a great route runner. Toomer was goo in his prime because he ran great routes, was very reliable and had great hands. We need to get a guy that can imediately replace him if he goes down due to his injury and tender age. If Toomer goes down, or retires next year, there will be nobody to step into that role. I propose the following players by round.

1. Robert Meachem, Dwayne Bowe
2. Craig Davis, Jason Hill, Steve Smith, Andrae Allison
3. Mike Walker, Laurent Robinson

Most of those guys have good size, good speed. They have a chance to replace Toomer when he gets injured or inevitably retires. Best case would be CB in round one and then Craig Davis in round 2.

ricky bobby
04-02-2007, 04:25 PM
GiantsPride -

Don't want to give up my 2nd for Williams

Tony Ugoh looked bad this offseason and during the Senior Bowl. He's another Guy Whimper.

Eric Weddle is ok, but we need a CB

A bit early for Booker

Black is a good speedy guy

Tarrell Brown recently got arrested AGAIN.

Soliai has some character issues. If you want a big guy look at Laron Harris, Walter Thomas, or Stanely Doughty.

Mike Walker won't last that long.

Go_Eli
04-02-2007, 06:35 PM
I actually wouldn't mind Ginn in the first. The ways to use him!

If the Giants can figure out how to set up a wedge for kickoffs, imagine two speedsters like Ginn and Moss back there? Who to kick it to?!

Ginn on punts is obvious.

Ginn and Moss on reverses? Jeez.

Forenci
04-02-2007, 06:40 PM
I actually wouldn't mind Ginn in the first. The ways to use him!

If the Giants can figure out how to set up a wedge for kickoffs, imagine two speedsters like Ginn and Moss back there? Who to kick it to?!

Ginn on punts is obvious.

Ginn and Moss on reverses? Jeez.

Yeah right, like Tom Coughlin and Kevin Gilbride would ever think of actually utlizing a players ability? Heh.

I know Gilbride didn't call any trick plays in his short time there. Before that we only called one reverse to Michael Jennings I believe.

Number 10
04-02-2007, 06:41 PM
Toomer 33 years old, Plax 30 years old, not a great route runner. Toomer was goo in his prime because he ran great routes, was very reliable and had great hands. We need to get a guy that can imediately replace him if he goes down due to his injury and tender age. If Toomer goes down, or retires next year, there will be nobody to step into that role. I propose the following players by round.

1. Robert Meachem, Dwayne Bowe
2. Craig Davis, Jason Hill, Steve Smith, Andrae Allison
3. Mike Walker, Laurent Robinson

Most of those guys have good size, good speed. They have a chance to replace Toomer when he gets injured or inevitably retires. Best case would be CB in round one and then Craig Davis in round 2.

And my friggin point is that we can get an Amani Toomer any year in the middle rounds, no need to do it now where he is still on the team and still our #2 WR. Ginn would bring a dimension to this offense that it sorely needs, not to mention Devin Hester like return ability.

Number 10
04-02-2007, 06:41 PM
Yeah right, like Tom Coughlin and Kevin Gilbride would ever think of actually utlizing a players ability? Heh.

I know Gilbride didn't call any trick plays in his short time there. Before that we only called one reverse to Michael Jennings I believe.

I'll give you one guess why.

Forenci
04-02-2007, 06:56 PM
Well, even when Moss was healthy they never called a trick play using a reverse.

Tell me Number 10, you really think Ted Ginn with average hands, below average route running, and superb speed is a first round pick? I mean, I was just in a thread about Mike Williams and Troy Willamson and Ginn reminded me completely of Troy. Has superb speed which blinds people to his other average/below average skills as a receiver. To argue that he has good hands or great route running would be extremely pointless because I'm sure even you can agree upon it.

He's no where near Devin Hesters punt/kick return ability either because Hester is not only fast, but he is extremely elusive. Not to mention I clearly remember Ginn muffing several punts over the years. Against Michigan in 2005 he muffed two of them only to be saved by Santonio Holmes.

His speed is awesome, but he shouldn't be in the first round by any means. If he had ran a 4.45 on a 40, he wouldn't be nearly as coveted. So does speed a lone warrant a first round selection? Not at all. I can also agree with Ricky Bobby in the fact Jerry Reese would never draft Ted Ginn in the first. There's a chance he could go for Meachem or Bowe, but that's about it.

ricky bobby
04-02-2007, 07:39 PM
There is such a thing as overkill. And adding Ted Ginn in with Sinorice Moss would be overkill. It would be like adding Tony Hunt to Brandon Jacobs. Or another DE in round 1. There is just absolutely no need for it. And we have plenty of needs.

Number 10
04-02-2007, 09:40 PM
There is such a thing as overkill. And adding Ted Ginn in with Sinorice Moss would be overkill. It would be like adding Tony Hunt to Brandon Jacobs. Or another DE in round 1. There is just absolutely no need for it. And we have plenty of needs.

Or like Reuben Droughns to Brandon Jacobs?

Hm.

Number 10
04-02-2007, 09:50 PM
Well, even when Moss was healthy they never called a trick play using a reverse.

Tell me Number 10, you really think Ted Ginn with average hands, below average route running, and superb speed is a first round pick? I mean, I was just in a thread about Mike Williams and Troy Willamson and Ginn reminded me completely of Troy. Has superb speed which blinds people to his other average/below average skills as a receiver. To argue that he has good hands or great route running would be extremely pointless because I'm sure even you can agree upon it.

He's no where near Devin Hesters punt/kick return ability either because Hester is not only fast, but he is extremely elusive. Not to mention I clearly remember Ginn muffing several punts over the years. Against Michigan in 2005 he muffed two of them only to be saved by Santonio Holmes.

His speed is awesome, but he shouldn't be in the first round by any means. If he had ran a 4.45 on a 40, he wouldn't be nearly as coveted. So does speed a lone warrant a first round selection? Not at all. I can also agree with Ricky Bobby in the fact Jerry Reese would never draft Ted Ginn in the first. There's a chance he could go for Meachem or Bowe, but that's about it.

I'm just saying you don't know a damn thing about the footbal mind of Coughlin or Gilbride, let alone both. They added an entire piece to the playbook for Moss last year, and just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it does not exist. There is a little bit more to calling plays than you will ever know, so don't try to dive into X's and O's with me.

And stop with the below average route running talk because it is false. He has average route running which can easily be improved....in fact route running and hands are the two easiest traits of a WR to improve over the course of a prospect's first couple years anyway. So now Troy Williamson is the same kind of player that Ginn is? Tell me why please. Is it because Williamson had a blazing 40 time? Tell me how they compare with the ball in their hands, tell me how they compare in the return game, tell me how they compare in the screen/reverse game. How about short routes? Or maybe you really can't compare the two because you have seen enough of the two to formulate a real opinion.

Ginn is faster than Hester and while he may not be as elusive (although it is close) he is just as explosive in terms of reaching peak speed very quickly. He makes cuts on a dime and seems to be at top speed while everyone else around him is still adjusting to his cut.

He works out next week and I honestly don't care if he runs a 4.5 because like I said, I have seen his speed on the field and that is the only thing I care about. And you know what, I don't think Reese will draft Ginn either. I would not be suprised either way but that is not the debate here, the debate is what would we do.

ricky bobby
04-03-2007, 07:25 AM
Or like Reuben Droughns to Brandon Jacobs?

Hm.

Yeah, because Droughns cost us a first round pick.

culloden1745
04-03-2007, 07:51 AM
There is such a thing as overkill. And adding Ted Ginn in with Sinorice Moss would be overkill. It would be like adding Tony Hunt to Brandon Jacobs. Or another DE in round 1. There is just absolutely no need for it. And we have plenty of needs.
Whether we need a wr in the 1st or not, there is a huge difference between adding one, or adding another rb/ de....only 1 rb can run the ball, yeah you can misdirect, but if you have 2 big less elusive guys...thats not gonna work, neither Hunt or Jacobs are blocking fullback types...so it would be pointless to field both of them too often.
Same thing w/ des we have 2 good starters, 1 b/up that can play inside a bit, one that could play a bit lb, it would be a stretch to get a 5th.
If we have 2 wrs that are extremely fast, and send both deep, whether run or pass you are going to have multiple defenders deep as well, opening up underneath routes, taking extra defenders out of the box, and setting up the defense for trick plays. As opposed to 2 rbs, or 2 des, you can field 3 wrs as a base offense, or more in passing situations. Look at our opponents in the east, who has 2 cbs that can run with moss, ginn, and another 1-2 that can cover plax, toomer?
Personally I'd rather not go wr in the 1st, but I could see its benefits.

Forenci
04-03-2007, 10:01 AM
I'm just saying you don't know a damn thing about the footbal mind of Coughlin or Gilbride, let alone both. They added an entire piece to the playbook for Moss last year, and just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it does not exist. There is a little bit more to calling plays than you will ever know, so don't try to dive into X's and O's with me.

And stop with the below average route running talk because it is false. He has average route running which can easily be improved....in fact route running and hands are the two easiest traits of a WR to improve over the course of a prospect's first couple years anyway. So now Troy Williamson is the same kind of player that Ginn is? Tell me why please. Is it because Williamson had a blazing 40 time? Tell me how they compare with the ball in their hands, tell me how they compare in the return game, tell me how they compare in the screen/reverse game. How about short routes? Or maybe you really can't compare the two because you have seen enough of the two to formulate a real opinion.

Ginn is faster than Hester and while he may not be as elusive (although it is close) he is just as explosive in terms of reaching peak speed very quickly. He makes cuts on a dime and seems to be at top speed while everyone else around him is still adjusting to his cut.

He works out next week and I honestly don't care if he runs a 4.5 because like I said, I have seen his speed on the field and that is the only thing I care about. And you know what, I don't think Reese will draft Ginn either. I would not be suprised either way but that is not the debate here, the debate is what would we do.

I'm not going to get into an arguement over this, not because you're right or wrong, but instead because I respect your opinion enough to buy into some of what you're saying.

That said, I've watched a ton of Ohio State games over the past years and from what I have personally seen, and as I mentioned before it's just an opinion, most of his big plays come from running in a straight line and I've seen him run many bad routes and not be able to juke out a linebacker in the open field. That said, I've also seen him blaze a kick return in making the special teams look silly. I've seen him completely burn some of the fastest corners, and so on.

The thing that scares me is I'm not sure if his speed will be enough in the NFL. He just seems like a boom or bust type to me, and I'm not a big fan of that.

The primary reason I don't want him though is we haven't given Sinorice Moss a chance to develop. For all we know he might end up being better than Ted Ginn and be our replacement for Amani. It just seems like a waste of a pick if we're basically condeming him as the fourth wide receiver when he hasn't had a chance to prove himself. Not only that, but basically draft the same type of receiver that we have in him, in Ted Ginn.

I think you mistake me for not liking Ted Ginn, which just isn't true. As I've said many times before, I've seen him play a lot and always thought he was a great college player - I'm just afraid from what I've seen if he is going to be a great NFL receiver.

Number 10
04-03-2007, 10:25 AM
Yeah, because Droughns cost us a first round pick.

And if I told you back when the beginning of FA started that Droughns would be the guy to spell Jacobs, you would have the same "overkill" reaction you have now.

ricky bobby
04-03-2007, 12:15 PM
And if I told you back when the beginning of FA started that Droughns would be the guy to spell Jacobs, you would have the same "overkill" reaction you have now.

Tim Carter was worth nothing, therefore we got Droughns for nothing. If you want to sign 10 speedy UDFA, be my guest. Don't waste a first round pick on one.

Number 10
04-03-2007, 01:10 PM
Tim Carter was worth nothing, therefore we got Droughns for nothing. If you want to sign 10 speedy UDFA, be my guest. Don't waste a first round pick on one.

So we can get another Tim Carter on our team? No thanks.

And again, if two months ago I were to tell you that instead of a thunder/lightning type backfield we were gonna have Droughns and Jacobs as our dual attack, you would have called it overkill.

ricky bobby
04-03-2007, 01:15 PM
So we can get another Tim Carter on our team? No thanks.

And again, if two months ago I were to tell you that instead of a thunder/lightning type backfield we were gonna have Droughns and Jacobs as our dual attack, you would have called it overkill.

Tim Carter = Ted Ginn Jr.

Both straight line speedsters who would make better track athletes than football players.

I would tell you it's overkill, but if you mentioned that we got another powerback for Tim Carter, I wouldn't care. If you told me that we spent a first round pick on him, i'd be extremely dissapointed with Reese.

We're going in circles here, and you're missing (or ignoring) my point. My point being that we should spend our 1st day draft picks on guys that we actually need.

Number 10
04-03-2007, 01:28 PM
Tim Carter = Ted Ginn Jr.

Both straight line speedsters who would make better track athletes than football players.

I would tell you it's overkill, but if you mentioned that we got another powerback for Tim Carter, I wouldn't care. If you told me that we spent a first round pick on him, i'd be extremely dissapointed with Reese.

We're going in circles here, and you're missing (or ignoring) my point. My point being that we should spend our 1st day draft picks on guys that we actually need.

hahahaha. Tim Carter=Ted Ginn? If there is a single person on the planet that knows anything about football and agrees with you, I'd be shocked. One of the dumber statements you have put out there in awhile.

So we didn't need a guy that could stretch the field? We didn't need a punt return man? We didn't need akick return man? We didn't need a legit deep threat for Eli to work with?

I guess we watched two seperate teams last year.

ricky bobby
04-03-2007, 01:39 PM
hahahaha. Tim Carter=Ted Ginn? If there is a single person on the planet that knows anything about football and agrees with you, I'd be shocked. One of the dumber statements you have put out there in awhile.

So we didn't need a guy that could stretch the field? We didn't need a punt return man? We didn't need akick return man? We didn't need a legit deep threat for Eli to work with?

I guess we watched two seperate teams last year.

..And Sinorice Moss was injured. Give him a chance before we go drafting a guy that plays a similar style of game.

Number 10
04-03-2007, 01:42 PM
..And Sinorice Moss was injured. Give him a chance before we go drafting a guy that plays a similar style of game.

Even when Moss was on the field, he didn't do much. And I am not saying I am giving up on him because that would be stupid, but I don't think he should stand in the way of bringing in a player like Ginn. Our depth at WR is weak and Plax/Amani will digress over the next couple years.

Moss + Ginn will give Shockey and Plax tons of room to work with and tons of single man coverage. If not, the ball will be in the hands of those speedsters and they can do things with the ball in their hands.

ricky bobby
04-03-2007, 01:44 PM
We can argue this all day Number 10, but using several factors, such as team needs, and Reese's Intelligence Quotient, I've calculated a percentage of us not drafting Ted Ginn in round one. The magical number is.... 99.99945383 %.

Number 10
04-03-2007, 01:50 PM
The debate is not what you think Reese will do. The debate is what we would and like I have said before, I hate repeating myself time and time again but I guess I have to for certain people to register something, I don't think Reese will draft Ginn.

ricky bobby
04-03-2007, 01:51 PM
The debate is not what you think Reese will do. The debate is what we would and like I have said before, I hate repeating myself time and time again but I guess I have to for certain people to register something, I don't think Reese will draft Ginn.
Then it's settled, we're not getting Ginn.

Number 10
04-03-2007, 01:58 PM
Then it's settled, we're not getting Ginn.

What is settled? We have been debating our opinions on what Ginn would do for this offense if selected in the 1st. We have been debating our opinions on what we should do with that pick and the rest of our draft to make our football team better for the future. This is not a debate on what we think Reese will do, this is a role playing thread/discussion on what you would do. And if and when don't select Ginn, I fully expect you to come here and say "Hey look, I was right all along and you were wrong".

ricky bobby
04-03-2007, 02:38 PM
What is settled? We have been debating our opinions on what Ginn would do for this offense if selected in the 1st. We have been debating our opinions on what we should do with that pick and the rest of our draft to make our football team better for the future. This is not a debate on what we think Reese will do, this is a role playing thread/discussion on what you would do. And if and when don't select Ginn, I fully expect you to come here and say "Hey look, I was right all along and you were wrong".

That's where the misunderstanding occured. I create my mock drafts in an attempt to guess what Reese might do. If we were posting what we would personally do, I'd be posting some pretty wacky stuff.

scottyboy
04-03-2007, 03:27 PM
ok, the ginn carter comparison was WAY OFF. ginn can actually catch and most likely will be usefull on an NFL team. i just really feel he's not what we need right now at all

ricky bobby
04-03-2007, 03:31 PM
Alright, bad comparison, but remember that Carter was also highly touted coming out of college. He was a second round pick after all.

Number 10
04-03-2007, 03:36 PM
Alright, bad comparison, but remember that Carter was also highly touted coming out of college. He was a second round pick after all.

How was Carter highly touted?

He had a season with 21 catches and a season with 35 catches, and I think COMBINING those two years he did not even reach 800 yards. Accorsi reached for him because of his potential (a round too early), he was not highly touted.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-03-2007, 04:15 PM
How was Carter highly touted?

He had a season with 21 catches and a season with 35 catches, and I think COMBINING those two years he did not even reach 800 yards. Accorsi reached for him because of his potential (a round too early), he was not highly touted.

Lets not forget he wasnt a Reese pick either. Sutherland was at the helm when Carter was drafted. Notice how Hatch, Dixon, and Carter and others were reaches. Hell, Hatch and Dixon werent even invited to the combines, and yet we drafted them. I think we are on the short list of teams ever to do that. That's EA, Fasshole, and Sutherlands blunder!

Kiwanuka>Mario
04-05-2007, 02:47 PM
Ross or Timmons

ricky bobby
04-06-2007, 08:59 AM
Serious mock draft

1. Darrelle Revis CB
2. Justin Durant WLB
3. Laurent Robinson WR
4. Laron Harris NT
5. Ken Shackleford OT/OG
6. Ramonce Taylor RB
7. Daren Stone S
7. Chad Upshaw TE

hugegmenfan
04-06-2007, 10:53 AM
Serious mock draft

1. Darrelle Revis CB
2. Justin Durant WLB
3. Laurent Robinson WR
4. Laron Harris NT
5. Ken Shackleford OT/OG
6. Ramonce Taylor RB
7. Daren Stone S
7. Chad Upshaw TE

justin durant i like a lot- but the 2nd round is a big stretch. hes a 3rd round pick. Im not that big of a fan of this mock personally.

ricky bobby
04-06-2007, 12:36 PM
justin durant i like a lot- but the 2nd round is a big stretch. hes a 3rd round pick. Im not that big of a fan of this mock personally.

I don't think Durant is a big reach. I believe we are looking for a WLB in the draft rather a SLB. We have quite a few big bodies that can play SLB including Blackburn, Mitchell, Torbor or maybe even Kiwi. What we lack is a traditional WLB. Tim Lewis used the WLB almost as a MLB, so we had a big guy (Emmons, Short) playing that position. I don't think that Spags uses that same idea and we should be looking for a fast, athletic, sideline to sideline type of WLB. Durant had a great, productive college career, and put up great numbers at the combine. Scott Wright has him ranked as his #5 overall OLB. I don't think Durant would be a reach in the second round at all. Laurent Robinson is an absolute steal in round 3 IMO, and I have us taking Laron Harris in round 4 because we need a huge NT (he's 6'3" 345), and I know he won't be around in round 5.

BaLLiN
04-06-2007, 03:12 PM
According to analysts on NFL Network, Jason Hill is a third rounder if so would you like it if our draft went like this?

1. Paul Pozlusny (OLB)
2. Arron Sears(OT/OG)
3. Jason Hill(WR)
4. Marvin White(S)
5. Jonathan Wade(CB)
6. Thomas Clayton(RB) or Garrett Wolfe(RB)
7. John Talley(CB)

or

1. Darrell Revis or Chris Houston (CB)
2. Earl Everett (OLB)
3. Ryan Harris (OT)
4. Brandon Meriweather (S/CB)
5. Prescott Burgess (OLB)
6. David Patterson (DT)
7. DeAndre Jackson (CB)

Which one of these do you think is better, and Meriweather in the 4th because of character issues that have just been sturred up by Pacman Jones problems

ricky bobby
04-06-2007, 03:17 PM
According to analysts on NFL Network, Jason Hill is a third rounder if so would you like it if our draft went like this?

1. Paul Pozlusny (OLB)
2. Arron Sears(OT/OG)
3. Jason Hill(WR)
4. Marvin White(S)
5. Jonathan Wade(CB)
6. Thomas Clayton(RB) or Garrett Wolfe(RB)
7. John Talley(CB)

or

1. Darrell Revis or Chris Houston (CB)
2. Earl Everett (OLB)
3. Ryan Harris (OT)
4. Brandon Meriweather (S/CB)
5. Prescott Burgess (OLB)
6. David Patterson (DT)
7. DeAndre Jackson (CB)

Which one of these do you think is better, and Meriweather in the 4th because of character issues that have just been sturred up by Pacman Jones problems

First draft -
CB in the fifth?? First three picks are decent despite the lack of corner, but it goes south really fast after that IMO.

Second draft -
Everett in round 2 is a reach. We need to take a WR at some point in the draft, the earlier the better.

hugegmenfan
04-06-2007, 03:31 PM
According to analysts on NFL Network, Jason Hill is a third rounder if so would you like it if our draft went like this?

1. Paul Pozlusny (OLB)
2. Arron Sears(OT/OG)
3. Jason Hill(WR)
4. Marvin White(S)
5. Jonathan Wade(CB)
6. Thomas Clayton(RB) or Garrett Wolfe(RB)
7. John Talley(CB)

or

1. Darrell Revis or Chris Houston (CB)
2. Earl Everett (OLB)
3. Ryan Harris (OT)
4. Brandon Meriweather (S/CB)
5. Prescott Burgess (OLB)
6. David Patterson (DT)
7. DeAndre Jackson (CB)

Which one of these do you think is better, and Meriweather in the 4th because of character issues that have just been sturred up by Pacman Jones problems

in the 2nd draft- merriweather in the 4th round?!?!? are u insane? hes a 1st round or early 2nd round pick...if that could happen i think that wouldbe the best draft ever but its not even close to possible- even with character issues, merriweather will not last until the 4th thats totally unreasonable

in the 1st draft- john wade would b taken day 1- no way he lasts until the 5th round

NY+Giants=NYG
04-08-2007, 01:22 PM
I hate mocks but here goes.

1. Jon Beason UM OLB WSL

2. LaMarr Woodley DE/LB tweener SLB

3. Jay Alford DT Penn. State

4 Antony Arline CB Baylor

5 Jacoby Jones WR Lane

6 Kevin Boss TE Western Oregon

7 Rameel Meekins DT/FB 6'0 275

7 Michael Bush RB Louisville

Damix
04-08-2007, 01:53 PM
Don't like Woodley, and I doubt Bush is there in the 7th

NY+Giants=NYG
04-08-2007, 01:59 PM
Don't like Woodley, and I doubt Bush is there in the 7th

I am of Woodley as a SLB, as for Bush, i think it's a tossup because of his injury, and rehibilation. Talked to a scout, and he said most probably he could anywhere in the late rounds, be put on the PUP list, and than continue to get better and play as his rookie year next year. So it all depends ona team who wants to do that and what they want to risk doing it. So i used that as a wildcard. If a team wants to invest an earlier pick, and go through that, than good luck to them.

Number 10
04-08-2007, 02:15 PM
Woodley can't play SAM, that would be a terrible pick.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-08-2007, 02:51 PM
Woodley can't play SAM, that would be a terrible pick.

He may be a bit of a project but it would depend on if we think he can make the transition. He needs coaching but he has some of the tools to play the position. Depends on what scheme he is in as well. Like I said i hate mocks, wanted to do something other than the CB, which more than 90% of all giants fans have if they dont have a CB going in round one. Personally I'd rather draft Beason, trade down and go from there.

ricky bobby
04-08-2007, 05:32 PM
I hate mocks but here goes.

1. Jon Beason UM OLB WSL

2. LaMarr Woodley DE/LB tweener SLB

3. Jay Alford DT Penn. State

4 Antony Arline CB Baylor

5 Jacoby Jones WR Lane

6 Kevin Boss TE Western Oregon

7 Rameel Meekins DT/FB 6'0 275

7 Michael Bush RB Louisville

1. Alright
2. Don't like Woodley as a OLB
3. Big reach IMO
4. Never heard of the guy
5. Alright, but he's a bit overhyped. We should look at a WR earlier
6. Great pick. Love the guy, but he won't last that long
7. Interesting prospect
7. No way he falls that far. Scott has him as the #3 RB.

Probably should look at CB, WR, OLB and OT in the first four rounds. I doubt we'll take two LB in consecutive rounds.

hugegmenfan
04-08-2007, 06:33 PM
I hate mocks but here goes.

1. Jon Beason UM OLB WSL

2. LaMarr Woodley DE/LB tweener SLB

3. Jay Alford DT Penn. State

4 Antony Arline CB Baylor

5 Jacoby Jones WR Lane

6 Kevin Boss TE Western Oregon

7 Rameel Meekins DT/FB 6'0 275

7 Michael Bush RB Louisville

Bad mock
1. Beason is a good pick i like it.
2. Woodley is a bad pick. 2 OLB types in the 1st 2 rounds? thats very excessive.
The problem with these kind of mocks is that we dont know who is picked after or things like that. I would say gives us a CB/WR/Oline 2nd round
Also, even though bush has injury concerns, there is no way he goes to the bottom of the 7th round. Not even remotely possible.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-08-2007, 08:04 PM
Bad mock
1. Beason is a good pick i like it.
2. Woodley is a bad pick. 2 OLB types in the 1st 2 rounds? thats very excessive.
The problem with these kind of mocks is that we dont know who is picked after or things like that. I would say gives us a CB/WR/Oline 2nd round
Also, even though bush has injury concerns, there is no way he goes to the bottom of the 7th round. Not even remotely possible.

Damn people are taking my mock way to seriosly. I hate mocks, and if i'd known this i wouldnt have done it.

I like woodley and think he is a versatile player. And yes two OLbs is a little differen than a LB, CB combo so went that direction, but i can see how people may not like it
And yes it is remotely possible I talked to scout saying he is a big project pick. So he could go in a any round and it won't be considered a bad thing. But like i said i just floated a mock out there with the intention of being different. My advice dont take it too seriously because i certainly dont. Just wanted to make it different than the usual i see every minute on the giants.com board and on here.

BaLLiN
04-09-2007, 12:42 PM
in the 2nd draft- merriweather in the 4th round?!?!? are u insane? hes a 1st round or early 2nd round pick...if that could happen i think that wouldbe the best draft ever but its not even close to possible- even with character issues, merriweather will not last until the 4th thats totally unreasonable

in the 1st draft- john wade would b taken day 1- no way he lasts until the 5th round

NFL Network said he could drop as far as the 4th because of the pacman incident and some other off the field problems

hugegmenfan
04-09-2007, 06:33 PM
ound 1: LB - Paul Posluszny (Penn State)

Round 2: CB - Eric Wright (UNLV)

Round 3: WR - Steve Smith (USC)

Round 4: T - James Marten (Boston College)

Round 5: RB - Darius Walker (Notre Dame)

Round 6: TE - Matt Spaeth (Minnesota)

Round 7: DT - Deljuan Robinson (Mississippi State)

Round 7: FB - Corey Anderson (Tennessee)

I saw this mock on MVN- http://mvn.com/nfl-giants/ i love it personally. i think darius walker in the 5th is a steal and same with marten in the 4th. im not a big paul poz fan but its ok, and if eric wright can get his off field issues taken care of it would b a steal as well b.c of his ability. Smith in the 3rd i like a lot also

ricky bobby
04-09-2007, 06:37 PM
ound 1: LB - Paul Posluszny (Penn State)

Round 2: CB - Eric Wright (UNLV)

Round 3: WR - Steve Smith (USC)

Round 4: T - James Marten (Boston College)

Round 5: RB - Darius Walker (Notre Dame)

Round 6: TE - Matt Spaeth (Minnesota)

Round 7: DT - Deljuan Robinson (Mississippi State)

Round 7: FB - Corey Anderson (Tennessee)

I saw this mock on MVN- http://mvn.com/nfl-giants/ i love it personally. i think darius walker in the 5th is a steal and same with marten in the 4th. im not a big paul poz fan but its ok, and if eric wright can get his off field issues taken care of it would b a steal as well b.c of his ability. Smith in the 3rd i like a lot also

Very nice draft. Would not complain a bit if that happened.

ricky bobby
04-14-2007, 01:10 PM
My latest mock. Just click the link in the middle of my page.

http://the-omniscient.awardspace.com/

hugegmenfan
04-14-2007, 02:40 PM
My latest mock. Just click the link in the middle of my page.

http://the-omniscient.awardspace.com/

2 guys in 8 picks with character issues/legal problems? im not sure if thats wat we need right now
i thnk eric wright is a great talent but i would rather take a guy like josh wilson for example who i think also shows great nfl promise and has no character issues.

ricky bobby
04-14-2007, 02:57 PM
2 guys in 8 picks with character issues/legal problems? im not sure if thats wat we need right now
i thnk eric wright is a great talent but i would rather take a guy like josh wilson for example who i think also shows great nfl promise and has no character issues.

I heard Todd McShay talk about Wright on the radio. He said that the legal issues was a one time thing, and that he has matured since then. He said that he is a top 5 corner and worth a early second round pick. Wilson would be great also. I like them both.

Forenci
04-15-2007, 11:50 AM
My Mock Draft:

Round 1: Darelle Revis - CB - Pitt

Just what the doctor ordered. Youth and depth for the secondary and possibly a solid starter if Madison suffers an injury - and at the very least will start for us at the nickle back posistion this year.

Round 2: Craig Davis - WR - LSU

Reminds me quite a bit of Amani Toomer. Good height and speed. Was over shadowed a bit by Dwayne Bowe and should fit right into our offense. In a few years the tandem of Burress/Moss/Davis might be one of the best in the NFL.

Round 3: Tim Shaw - OLB - Penn State

An immediate injection of speed and youth for our defense. Can sit this year out and play some nickle for us while he learns under Mitchell this year and will likely start at SAM for us the next year. Wilkinson, Pierce, and Shaw will be a fierce linebacking corps.

Round 4: James Marten - OT - Boston College

Gives us some good depth at Left Tackle no matter who ends up starting there. If given a few years, he may end up developing into something much more than just a back up.

Round 5: Tim Duckworth - OG - Auburn

This guy has some huge upside, despite being fairly raw on the offensive side of the ball. Is a mauler and extremely physical as a run blocker. Not the best pass blocker, but it can improve. Might even compete with Seubert for the starting posistion. Would be great for our run game with Jacobs and Droughns in the backfield.

Round 6: Chinedum Ndukwe - S - Notre Dame

Somewhat overshadowed this year by the guy playing next to him (Zib), could probably play either posistions as a safety, isn't great at coverage but is a playmaker and will be a good special teamer for us.

Round 7: Clifton Ryan - DT - Michigan State

Insurance incase Seawright doesn't pan out, and our incase newly signed DT doesn't stay around long. He's a little undersized height wise at about 6'2/6'3 but is 310 pounds and may develop into that rotational guy we need for the future. Will drop due to a bit of a drop in production and the fact he doesn't have great physical tools.

UDFA Signings:

- Daniel Coats - TE - BYU

Superb blocking TE that will be used to replace the great run blocking that Shiancoe brought to the table for us.

- Deon Anderson - FB - Connecticut

A little bit small for a fullback for us, but is about 250 pounds and quite a strong blocker. Had some character issue in the past, but really seems to have matured. Could really be that big run blocker we've been looking for to replace Finn.

LTgiants
04-15-2007, 12:41 PM
i like the first 2 picks but not the rest

hugegmenfan
04-15-2007, 01:10 PM
My Mock Draft:

Round 1: Darelle Revis - CB - Pitt

Just what the doctor ordered. Youth and depth for the secondary and possibly a solid starter if Madison suffers an injury - and at the very least will start for us at the nickle back posistion this year.

Round 2: Craig Davis - WR - LSU

Reminds me quite a bit of Amani Toomer. Good height and speed. Was over shadowed a bit by Dwayne Bowe and should fit right into our offense. In a few years the tandem of Burress/Moss/Davis might be one of the best in the NFL.

Round 3: Tim Shaw - OLB - Penn State

An immediate injection of speed and youth for our defense. Can sit this year out and play some nickle for us while he learns under Mitchell this year and will likely start at SAM for us the next year. Wilkinson, Pierce, and Shaw will be a fierce linebacking corps.

Round 4: James Marten - OT - Boston College

Gives us some good depth at Left Tackle no matter who ends up starting there. If given a few years, he may end up developing into something much more than just a back up.

Round 5: Tim Duckworth - OG - Auburn

This guy has some huge upside, despite being fairly raw on the offensive side of the ball. Is a mauler and extremely physical as a run blocker. Not the best pass blocker, but it can improve. Might even compete with Seubert for the starting posistion. Would be great for our run game with Jacobs and Droughns in the backfield.

Round 6: Chinedum Ndukwe - S - Notre Dame

Somewhat overshadowed this year by the guy playing next to him (Zib), could probably play either posistions as a safety, isn't great at coverage but is a playmaker and will be a good special teamer for us.

Round 7: Clifton Ryan - DT - Michigan State

Insurance incase Seawright doesn't pan out, and our incase newly signed DT doesn't stay around long. He's a little undersized height wise at about 6'2/6'3 but is 310 pounds and may develop into that rotational guy we need for the future. Will drop due to a bit of a drop in production and the fact he doesn't have great physical tools.

UDFA Signings:

- Daniel Coats - TE - BYU

Superb blocking TE that will be used to replace the great run blocking that Shiancoe brought to the table for us.

- Deon Anderson - FB - Connecticut

A little bit small for a fullback for us, but is about 250 pounds and quite a strong blocker. Had some character issue in the past, but really seems to have matured. Could really be that big run blocker we've been looking for to replace Finn.


i like this mock draft a lot. revis is a great 1st round pick and i would be very pleased. Craig Davis is also a fantastic player, hes worked out with eli before and he is a great posession reciever who will do great things for us. Tim shaw is a good pick as well and would add good depth to our lb corp. i also think james marten in the 4th would b a great pick also. i dk if he will be there in the bottom of the 4th but if he is, its a good pick. duckworth is a great pick also, but another pick im not sure that will be there in the 5th
i really like it a lot

scottyboy
04-15-2007, 01:12 PM
i too love this mock, but with the Bell signing, DT is unlikely. Craig Davis is one of my favorites in this draft too. We also have another 7th round pick, and i dont like Anderson-character issues

Damix
04-15-2007, 01:31 PM
What I want to do come draft day:
Round 1: Reggie Nelson/highest ranked WR
Round 2: Marcus McCauley
Round 3: Justin Durant/Tim Shaw
Round 4: Highest Ranked WR/Safety (depends on 1st rounder)
Round 5: Jonathon Wade
Round 6: Prescott Burggess
Round 7: Walter Thomas
Round 7: Ramonce Taylor


Defense, defense, defense

hugegmenfan
04-15-2007, 02:42 PM
What I want to do come draft day:
Round 1: Reggie Nelson/highest ranked WR
Round 2: Marcus McCauley
Round 3: Justin Durant/Tim Shaw
Round 4: Highest Ranked WR/Safety (depends on 1st rounder)
Round 5: Jonathon Wade
Round 6: Prescott Burggess
Round 7: Walter Thomas
Round 7: Ramonce Taylor


Defense, defense, defense

no way john wade goes 5th round. hes a day 1 pick and i have seen many mock drafts of him going round 2. also i doubt prescott burgess falls that far either. i like the round 2 and 3 picks but thats about it

Forenci
04-16-2007, 09:30 AM
i like this mock draft a lot. revis is a great 1st round pick and i would be very pleased. Craig Davis is also a fantastic player, hes worked out with eli before and he is a great posession reciever who will do great things for us. Tim shaw is a good pick as well and would add good depth to our lb corp. i also think james marten in the 4th would b a great pick also. i dk if he will be there in the bottom of the 4th but if he is, its a good pick. duckworth is a great pick also, but another pick im not sure that will be there in the 5th
i really like it a lot

Aye, Duckworth and Marten may not be there, but it's very possible they could be. I've seen a lot of mocks with them falling to later rounds, but that doesn't neccesarily mean it'll happen.

I think Duckworth has a real shot at falling to us in the 5th though due to his lack of inexperience on the offensive side of the ball.

Marten could definently fall to us, but he might not also. Really a flip of the coin on both I think.

i too love this mock, but with the Bell signing, DT is unlikely. Craig Davis is one of my favorites in this draft too. We also have another 7th round pick, and i dont like Anderson-character issues

Well, I couldn't really think of anything else to put in the 7th round and I really liked what I saw from Ryan after watching some Michigan State games this year, he could be the youth and size we need incase Bell doesn't stick around too long.

I usually go for extremely high character guys but a few people I know go to UCONN and say (according to the campus newspaper mind you) that he's really reformed and that he had to try out as a walk-on to make it back on the team. Since then he's really proven himself as a player on and off the field. It'd be one of those things where if he screws up during the year I don't think anyone would hesitate to cut him with Jim Finn on our roster.

GiantRutgersFan
04-16-2007, 01:04 PM
1. Paul Poslunksy- By now, I am sure most of you know why I like Poz. He is a tough, hardworking leader with great production and a stellar college career. He would fit right in on the Giants and I expect a great career out of the guy. He is also ready to start from day 1.

2. Eric Weddle- I was thinking about this a whole lot lately, and I think that with what Weddle brings to the table, he would be a good pick here. He has versatility and can play CB or Safety. I have a feeling that Gibril isnt gonna perform well this year. Gives us some depth and a lot of options in the secondary, which makes this a solid pick for us. Other then Marcus McCauley, I am not a fan of the CBs who might be available to us in the second

3. James Marten- can play either tackle or guard. He's a solid player who should be a capable starter, and has the potential to turn into a steal. Hes a nasty, strong linemen which is what I look for. He's from Boston College as well, which has a history of producing good linemen. If Penn State is Linebacker U, Boston College is Linemen U.

4. Jonathan Wade- he has the speed and is a good athlete who had a pretty good senior year.

5. Mike Walker- he has some potential and good workout numbers. Its tough to tell whos gonna be available here but Walker seems allrite.

6. Joe Newton- I like the guy because he's 6-8 and a good pass catcher who should be a big redzone threat. he's a capable blocker as well and should be a good backup TE

bigbluedefense
04-16-2007, 01:07 PM
1. Paul Poslunksy- By now, I am sure most of you know why I like Poz. He is a tough, hardworking leader with great production and a stellar college career. He would fit right in on the Giants and I expect a great career out of the guy. He is also ready to start from day 1.

2. Eric Weddle- I was thinking about this a whole lot lately, and I think that with what Weddle brings to the table, he would be a good pick here. He has versatility and can play CB or Safety. I have a feeling that Gibril isnt gonna perform well this year. Gives us some depth and a lot of options in the secondary, which makes this a solid pick for us. Other then Marcus McCauley, I am not a fan of the CBs who might be available to us in the second

3. James Marten- can play either tackle or guard. He's a solid player who should be a capable starter, and has the potential to turn into a steal. Hes a nasty, strong linemen which is what I look for. He's from Boston College as well, which has a history of producing good linemen. If Penn State is Linebacker U, Boston College is Linemen U.

4. Jonathan Wade- he has the speed and is a good athlete who had a pretty good senior year.

5. Mike Walker- he has some potential and good workout numbers. Its tough to tell whos gonna be available here but Walker seems allrite.

6. Joe Newton- I like the guy because he's 6-8 and a good pass catcher who should be a big redzone threat. he's a capable blocker as well and should be a good backup TE


I see Ive influenced your mock quite a bit ;)

scottyboy
04-17-2007, 04:05 PM
ok heres my first ever giants mock

1) Revis, CB pitt- we need a playmaker out in our secondary, along with youth that was proven in college. Granted he didnt face many big names in college but his return ability and solid tackling(for a young CB) make him my pick. I like Houston, but he's a boom-or-bust pick. Plus, jughead10 sold me on Revis!! Poz is a strong possibilty, but I'm confident in Chase/Gerris starting with Pierce and Mitchell and LB class is deeper than the CB's.

2) Craig Davis WR LSU- there's just something about him that i like. Reminds me of a young Amani. Very good blocking WR, can also return if need be. Fairly big, and can make plays after the catch. and get this - He actually is wililng to work out with Eli(at the Manning facility)!!!!! i know shocking!

3) Justin Durant LB, Hampton- very good cover LB here. we need more depth and mitchell has only a 1 year deal. Plays with a fiery passion and is a big hitter. Hopefully he falls here, if not then maybe Everett or Alexander.

4) James Marten, OT BC- i know manny ramirez is a very good prospect and maybe better player than marten, but guards are a dime a dozen. Marten is versitile and smart. Hopefully he doesnt become another OT project. I feel manny will be gone, but marten wont be.

5) Clark Harris, TE, Rutgers- yea, kind of a homer pick here, but realistic. Hometown kid who would fill in Shiacoe's spot. Can block with a nasty streak. Decent hands, can improve. This is just about the round he should go too.

6) Brandon Harrison, S, Stanford- depth at safety cant hurt. samrt, hard worker, with pretty good built. has lots of upside, and could be a real special teams ace.

7a) Darnell Stapleton, C, Rutgers- yea another homer pick, that would also make sense. Strong, nasty blocker. Would really help run game. O'hara aint getting younger, and this would let seubert and ruegemer focus at guard. O'hara could really mentor him, as Darnell has the strength Shaun lacks.

7b) Brendan Carney, P, Syracuse- strong leg, can also do kickoffs which is a plus as huston is a question mark there. feagles is just plain old.

i know, no DT here! but Bell gives us good depth with Jonas, Willy, Robbins and Cofield.

criticism is appreciated

BaLLiN
04-17-2007, 04:39 PM
I like the durant pick in the 3rd, but if Earl Everette is there I might want him instead cause Durant was moved inside his senior year.

hugegmenfan
04-17-2007, 05:48 PM
ok heres my first ever giants mock

1) Revis, CB pitt- we need a playmaker out in our secondary, along with youth that was proven in college. Granted he didnt face many big names in college but his return ability and solid tackling(for a young CB) make him my pick. I like Houston, but he's a boom-or-bust pick. Plus, jughead10 sold me on Revis!! Poz is a strong possibilty, but I'm confident in Chase/Gerris starting with Pierce and Mitchell and LB class is deeper than the CB's.

2) Craig Davis WR LSU- there's just something about him that i like. Reminds me of a young Amani. Very good blocking WR, can also return if need be. Fairly big, and can make plays after the catch. and get this - He actually is wililng to work out with Eli(at the Manning facility)!!!!! i know shocking!

3) Justin Durant LB, Hampton- very good cover LB here. we need more depth and mitchell has only a 1 year deal. Plays with a fiery passion and is a big hitter. Hopefully he falls here, if not then maybe Everett or Alexander.

4) James Marten, OT BC- i know manny ramirez is a very good prospect and maybe better player than marten, but guards are a dime a dozen. Marten is versitile and smart. Hopefully he doesnt become another OT project. I feel manny will be gone, but marten wont be.

5) Clark Harris, TE, Rutgers- yea, kind of a homer pick here, but realistic. Hometown kid who would fill in Shiacoe's spot. Can block with a nasty streak. Decent hands, can improve. This is just about the round he should go too.

6) Brandon Harrison, S, Stanford- depth at safety cant hurt. samrt, hard worker, with pretty good built. has lots of upside, and could be a real special teams ace.

7a) Darnell Stapleton, C, Rutgers- yea another homer pick, that would also make sense. Strong, nasty blocker. Would really help run game. O'hara aint getting younger, and this would let seubert and ruegemer focus at guard. O'hara could really mentor him, as Darnell has the strength Shaun lacks.

7b) Brendan Carney, P, Syracuse- strong leg, can also do kickoffs which is a plus as huston is a question mark there. feagles is just plain old.

i know, no DT here! but Bell gives us good depth with Jonas, Willy, Robbins and Cofield.

criticism is appreciated


Love it. The 1st 4 picks are fabulous in my opinion and if thats the way it went down i would be exceptionally pleased. I might prefer Earl Everett to Durant also but still its fine.

ricky bobby
04-17-2007, 08:09 PM
Pat Kirwan's latest draft from NFL.com

20. N.Y. Giants: Dwayne Bowe, WR, LSU -- Everyone is talking linebacker to the Giants, especially with Paul Posluszny and Lawrence Timmons still on the board. The Giants need one, but they completed a transaction to acquire Kavika Mitchell, the Kansas City free-agent linebacker, so they can pick a receiver. Plaxico Burress can't be a long term answer when he rarely shows up in the offseason and Amani Toomer is coming off an injury. Bowe gives Eli Manning a target for the next eight years.

I remember just two months ago I had lots of trouble convincing some of you guys about how big a need WR was for us. One guy (I don't think he posts anymore) said that we won't draft a WR in round 1 until pigs fly. Well, pigs might be flying around pretty soon. Anyhow, it's nice to see people catching on. (no pun intended)

hugegmenfan
04-17-2007, 08:12 PM
Pat Kirwan's latest draft from NFL.com

20. N.Y. Giants: Dwayne Bowe, WR, LSU -- Everyone is talking linebacker to the Giants, especially with Paul Posluszny and Lawrence Timmons still on the board. The Giants need one, but they completed a transaction to acquire Kavika Mitchell, the Kansas City free-agent linebacker, so they can pick a receiver. Plaxico Burress can't be a long term answer when he rarely shows up in the offseason and Amani Toomer is coming off an injury. Bowe gives Eli Manning a target for the next eight years.

I remember just two months ago I had lots of trouble convincing some of you guys about how big a need WR was for us. One guy (I don't think he posts anymore) said that we won't draft a WR in round 1 until pigs fly. Well, pigs might be flying around pretty soon. Anyhow, it's nice to see people catching on. (no pun intended)

dont get me wrong- im in love with dwayne bowe and i actually think hell b the #2 best WR of the class but i just dont think kawika mitchell really solved that much. yes he helped us a little bit but we cant ignore the fact we do have holes and i think OLB or CB or may be OT if its levi brown is the way to go.

ricky bobby
04-17-2007, 08:55 PM
New mock. I know I put one up yesterday, but I flip flop more than John Kerry so here it is.

1. Lawrence Timmons WLB
2. Best WR available Dwayne Jarrett, Sidney Rice, Craig Davis, Anthony Gonzalez, Steve Smith
3. Usama Young CB - great workout numbers. Makes me believe he is the most athletic player in this entire draft.
4. Walter Thomas or Laron Harris - Both space eaters
5. Corey Hilliard - OT/OG
6. Craig Dahl SS
7. Leron McClain FB
7. Eldra Buckley RB

Forenci
04-18-2007, 08:46 AM
ok heres my first ever giants mock

1) Revis, CB pitt- we need a playmaker out in our secondary, along with youth that was proven in college. Granted he didnt face many big names in college but his return ability and solid tackling(for a young CB) make him my pick. I like Houston, but he's a boom-or-bust pick. Plus, jughead10 sold me on Revis!! Poz is a strong possibilty, but I'm confident in Chase/Gerris starting with Pierce and Mitchell and LB class is deeper than the CB's.

2) Craig Davis WR LSU- there's just something about him that i like. Reminds me of a young Amani. Very good blocking WR, can also return if need be. Fairly big, and can make plays after the catch. and get this - He actually is wililng to work out with Eli(at the Manning facility)!!!!! i know shocking!

3) Justin Durant LB, Hampton- very good cover LB here. we need more depth and mitchell has only a 1 year deal. Plays with a fiery passion and is a big hitter. Hopefully he falls here, if not then maybe Everett or Alexander.

4) James Marten, OT BC- i know manny ramirez is a very good prospect and maybe better player than marten, but guards are a dime a dozen. Marten is versitile and smart. Hopefully he doesnt become another OT project. I feel manny will be gone, but marten wont be.

5) Clark Harris, TE, Rutgers- yea, kind of a homer pick here, but realistic. Hometown kid who would fill in Shiacoe's spot. Can block with a nasty streak. Decent hands, can improve. This is just about the round he should go too.

6) Brandon Harrison, S, Stanford- depth at safety cant hurt. samrt, hard worker, with pretty good built. has lots of upside, and could be a real special teams ace.

7a) Darnell Stapleton, C, Rutgers- yea another homer pick, that would also make sense. Strong, nasty blocker. Would really help run game. O'hara aint getting younger, and this would let seubert and ruegemer focus at guard. O'hara could really mentor him, as Darnell has the strength Shaun lacks.

7b) Brendan Carney, P, Syracuse- strong leg, can also do kickoffs which is a plus as huston is a question mark there. feagles is just plain old.

i know, no DT here! but Bell gives us good depth with Jonas, Willy, Robbins and Cofield.

criticism is appreciated

I like this mock quite a bit. I too considered Durant to be a good pick for us, but I give the edge to Shaw just because we could use some speed and I think he could become a great SAM. The only thing that scares me about Durant is the fact he didn't play against big competition, otherwise, I really like him.

The only pick I can honestly say I don't like is Clark Harris. From what I saw from a few Rutgers games this year, blocking was one of the things he seemed to be pretty bad at. I think we really need a good blocker, as that's why Shiancoe was a good asset for us. Having good hands is nice, but being a good blocker is primarily what I'm interested in.

All in all though, really like the mock Scotty. Seems like we agree on several picks.

Number 10
04-18-2007, 01:12 PM
Here is my latest mock-explanation comes after-


1-Ted Ginn-WR-Ohio State

CLE trades #36 (2) and 2008 4th rounder to NYG for #51 (2), #81 (3)

2-Paul Posluszny-OLB-Penn State

4-John Wendling-FS-Wyoming

5-C.J. Gaddis-CB-Clemson

6-Daniel Coats-TE-BYU

7-Courtney Lewis-RB-Texas A&M

7-Ramel Meekins-FB-Rutgers


Alright, starting off with Ginn. He is not the popular pick here but I am sticking ot my guns here that if he falls to us at #20, I can't see how we could pass him up. In terms of immediate impact, he will bring our special teams play to another level and for an on the brink team to have that (which is what we are), it can make all the difference in the world. Will he be a major impact on the offense right away? Probably not because there are issues with the nuances of his game at WR that can easily be corrected within a year at most. But he will stretch the field the second he steps into the huddle and could give Eli a legit deep threat to throw the ball downfield to, which is arguably Eli's top trait. Some will say we already have Moss and while I agree he is a speedy, explosive WR that will do well for us, he is better at stretching the field horizontally and Ginn is one that stretches the field vertically. Those guys will create a ton of space for Eli to work with if they are on the field at the same time which would really hinder his accuracy issues. Enough on him, we've debated enough already.

In regards to the trade...I just read that the Browns are looking to trade out of the #36 spot to acquire an extra pick in this draft. You all know that I have been campaigning for a trade up in the 2nd so we could have two top 40 picks, well here is out potential suitor. We lose one pick, but gain an extra mid rounder in 2008 and with me being down on this draft class, this seemed like a logical move. In terms of the pick....Poz very well may not be there for that pick and I realize that, but there have been enough people that have said he could slip out of the 1st for me to believe that this could happen. Even if he does not fall out of the 1st, I think Beason or Timmons will be there and I'd be happy with any of those three. Walking away from day two with Ginn and one of those LBs would be a very successful first day IMO.

Wendling is a guy that I think could do very well at the next level and one that will not need much time to adjust. His physical ability is top notch and he, like Poz, is someone you want on your team from an intangible point of view. Selecting him over White would be tough for me and I'm still not sure what I would if I were faced with the decision, but Wendling's ability to immediately contribute on special teams was the x-factor here.

I wanted to take a CB here because even though I realize Dockery and Underwood are the potential at the position for us, a little competition can't hurt. I would not be suprised to see one of them struggle in camp this year and if that is the case, what happens? Gaddis caught my eye a few tmes when watching Tye Hill last year and in some instances, I thought he looked better than Hill. He is very fast, very agressive, can make a play on the ball. A CB like that in our attacking scheme on D would do well and he has some experience at S, so he could be the tweener if Dockery and Underwood made the roster as our #4 and #5 CBs.

Coats is simply the backup TE that can block well and catch the occasional pass. Another blue collar type player that won't have to be worried about off the field.

Lewis and Meekins would be brought in as maybes for the roster, with Meekins a very intriguing possibility.

Rip away

ricky bobby
04-18-2007, 03:49 PM
Here is my latest mock-explanation comes after-


1-Ted Ginn-WR-Ohio State

CLE trades #36 (2) and 2008 4th rounder to NYG for #51 (2), #81 (3)

2-Paul Posluszny-OLB-Penn State

4-John Wendling-FS-Wyoming

5-C.J. Gaddis-CB-Clemson

6-Daniel Coats-TE-BYU

7-Courtney Lewis-RB-Texas A&M

7-Ramel Meekins-FB-Rutgers


Alrighty then. First and foremost I would like to say that we won't be trading picks away. It's only logical after we made no major moves in the Free Agency. Reese is trying to build depth. I think it is much more likely that he tries to gain a couple more picks instead of losing picks. The picks aren't much better than the draft.

1. You know how I feel about that pick, I don't want to start that all over agian.
2. I like Poz, but I can't see him sliping out of round 1.
4. We need a CB not a S
5. Actually very high on CJ Gaddis. Very versitle. I don't think he'll be around in the 5th.
6. Not familiar with the guy
7. Lewis is slow. There will be about 5 speed guys at this point that we could take.
7. Good pick.

Number 10
04-18-2007, 04:49 PM
Alrighty then. First and foremost I would like to say that we won't be trading picks away. It's only logical after we made no major moves in the Free Agency. Reese is trying to build depth. I think it is much more likely that he tries to gain a couple more picks instead of losing picks. The picks aren't much better than the draft.

1. You know how I feel about that pick, I don't want to start that all over agian.
2. I like Poz, but I can't see him sliping out of round 1.
4. We need a CB not a S
5. Actually very high on CJ Gaddis. Very versitle. I don't think he'll be around in the 5th.
6. Not familiar with the guy
7. Lewis is slow. There will be about 5 speed guys at this point that we could take.
7. Good pick.

Again-

This is what I WOULD DO IF I WERE THE GM.

2-I don't know if you overlooked what I wrote about that pick, but I said that I think one of the three OLBs will be there (Poz, Timmons, Beason)

4-Our safety play could use a boost, as could the depth behind our current starters. Wendling is a Brian Dawkins type in the sense that he can play a very good CF but still lay the lumber

7-Lewis is not slow....he has a very quick first few steps and while he may not blow anyone away downfield like an Elda Buckley would, he is a much better RB than those "speedsters".

scottyboy
04-18-2007, 04:50 PM
would you guys rather have anthpny gonzalez or craig davis?(forum mock question)

Damix
04-18-2007, 04:58 PM
Craig Davis

Number 10
04-18-2007, 05:05 PM
would you guys rather have anthpny gonzalez or craig davis?(forum mock question)

They're pretty much the same WR to me...I'd take Davis though.

GiantRutgersFan
04-18-2007, 06:30 PM
Here is my latest mock-explanation comes after-


1-Ted Ginn-WR-Ohio State

CLE trades #36 (2) and 2008 4th rounder to NYG for #51 (2), #81 (3)

2-Paul Posluszny-OLB-Penn State

4-John Wendling-FS-Wyoming

5-C.J. Gaddis-CB-Clemson

6-Daniel Coats-TE-BYU

7-Courtney Lewis-RB-Texas A&M

7-Ramel Meekins-FB-Rutgers


Alright, starting off with Ginn. He is not the popular pick here but I am sticking ot my guns here that if he falls to us at #20, I can't see how we could pass him up. In terms of immediate impact, he will bring our special teams play to another level and for an on the brink team to have that (which is what we are), it can make all the difference in the world. Will he be a major impact on the offense right away? Probably not because there are issues with the nuances of his game at WR that can easily be corrected within a year at most. But he will stretch the field the second he steps into the huddle and could give Eli a legit deep threat to throw the ball downfield to, which is arguably Eli's top trait. Some will say we already have Moss and while I agree he is a speedy, explosive WR that will do well for us, he is better at stretching the field horizontally and Ginn is one that stretches the field vertically. Those guys will create a ton of space for Eli to work with if they are on the field at the same time which would really hinder his accuracy issues. Enough on him, we've debated enough already.

In regards to the trade...I just read that the Browns are looking to trade out of the #36 spot to acquire an extra pick in this draft. You all know that I have been campaigning for a trade up in the 2nd so we could have two top 40 picks, well here is out potential suitor. We lose one pick, but gain an extra mid rounder in 2008 and with me being down on this draft class, this seemed like a logical move. In terms of the pick....Poz very well may not be there for that pick and I realize that, but there have been enough people that have said he could slip out of the 1st for me to believe that this could happen. Even if he does not fall out of the 1st, I think Beason or Timmons will be there and I'd be happy with any of those three. Walking away from day two with Ginn and one of those LBs would be a very successful first day IMO.

Wendling is a guy that I think could do very well at the next level and one that will not need much time to adjust. His physical ability is top notch and he, like Poz, is someone you want on your team from an intangible point of view. Selecting him over White would be tough for me and I'm still not sure what I would if I were faced with the decision, but Wendling's ability to immediately contribute on special teams was the x-factor here.

I wanted to take a CB here because even though I realize Dockery and Underwood are the potential at the position for us, a little competition can't hurt. I would not be suprised to see one of them struggle in camp this year and if that is the case, what happens? Gaddis caught my eye a few tmes when watching Tye Hill last year and in some instances, I thought he looked better than Hill. He is very fast, very agressive, can make a play on the ball. A CB like that in our attacking scheme on D would do well and he has some experience at S, so he could be the tweener if Dockery and Underwood made the roster as our #4 and #5 CBs.

Coats is simply the backup TE that can block well and catch the occasional pass. Another blue collar type player that won't have to be worried about off the field.

Lewis and Meekins would be brought in as maybes for the roster, with Meekins a very intriguing possibility.

Rip away


1. Ginn- I think I have debated this with you before so im not gonna get too in depth. I think it would be an ok pick if he's available, but I would probably go other directions. he would be a special teams monster though, which would be a nice thing to have.

2. Poz- Theres almost zero chance he is still available here. I like it, but not likely at all

4. Wendling- I like him a lot. He has Elite measurables and can play as well. I dont know if he can, but Wendling seems like a guy who could be moved to CB if need be as well

5. Gaddis- like this guy as well

6. Coats- not a fan. A lot of TE's i like more who should be available

7. Lewis- w/e

7. Meekins- like it a lot, even though I think finn is fine.

hugegmenfan
04-18-2007, 08:13 PM
1. Ginn- I think I have debated this with you before so im not gonna get too in depth. I think it would be an ok pick if he's available, but I would probably go other directions. he would be a special teams monster though, which would be a nice thing to have.

2. Poz- Theres almost zero chance he is still available here. I like it, but not likely at all

4. Wendling- I like him a lot. He has Elite measurables and can play as well. I dont know if he can, but Wendling seems like a guy who could be moved to CB if need be as well

5. Gaddis- like this guy as well

6. Coats- not a fan. A lot of TE's i like more who should be available

7. Lewis- w/e

7. Meekins- like it a lot, even though I think finn is fine.


You say there is no chance Poz is there in the 2nd round? ha thats funny. I would not be the least bit surprised if he falls past #32. Hes overrated im sorry. You say there is 0 chance and i would bet my ass its a lot bigger of a chance than that. I would take any of 5-6 players before i would take poz 20th overall.
Im not a huge fan of this mock. I understand your logic in trading up Number 10 but not for a guy like poz. i would be satisfied waiting and taking a rufus alexander, earl everett or a justin durant and being able to keep our 3rd round pick. I dont like Ginn 1st round but weve all debated that already. I really dont like any of the picks in the mock truthfully except for Gaddis.

Forenci
04-18-2007, 10:14 PM
Again-

This is what I WOULD DO IF I WERE THE GM.

2-I don't know if you overlooked what I wrote about that pick, but I said that I think one of the three OLBs will be there (Poz, Timmons, Beason)

4-Our safety play could use a boost, as could the depth behind our current starters. Wendling is a Brian Dawkins type in the sense that he can play a very good CF but still lay the lumber

7-Lewis is not slow....he has a very quick first few steps and while he may not blow anyone away downfield like an Elda Buckley would, he is a much better RB than those "speedsters".

Aren't mock drafts suppose to be about what you think will happen in the draft, not what you want to happen? Perhaps I'm wrong, but that's what I assume when I think Mock Draft.

I mean, my mock probably would've been quite a bit different if that was the case.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though. I don't mind being wrong - I would love to do a "What I Want to Happen Draft". -Insert evil laugh here-

Number 10
04-18-2007, 11:09 PM
Aren't mock drafts suppose to be about what you think will happen in the draft, not what you want to happen? Perhaps I'm wrong, but that's what I assume when I think Mock Draft.

I mean, my mock probably would've been quite a bit different if that was the case.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though. I don't mind being wrong - I would love to do a "What I Want to Happen Draft". -Insert evil laugh here-


When I do mocks, I do them based on what I think sohuld be done to improve the team as if I were the GM.

Forenci
04-18-2007, 11:20 PM
When I do mocks, I do them based on what I think sohuld be done to improve the team as if I were the GM.

Ah, I see. That's actually a really good definition of what a mock draft should be about.

I must give you props for sticking with your guns on the Ginn pick also. I think some people would've folded on it by now.

GiantRutgersFan
04-18-2007, 11:45 PM
You say there is no chance Poz is there in the 2nd round? ha thats funny. I would not be the least bit surprised if he falls past #32. Hes overrated im sorry. You say there is 0 chance and i would bet my ass its a lot bigger of a chance than that. I would take any of 5-6 players before i would take poz 20th overall.
Im not a huge fan of this mock. I understand your logic in trading up Number 10 but not for a guy like poz. i would be satisfied waiting and taking a rufus alexander, earl everett or a justin durant and being able to keep our 3rd round pick. I dont like Ginn 1st round but weve all debated that already. I really dont like any of the picks in the mock truthfully except for Gaddis.

your wrong? what do you want me to say.... Theres no way he falls to the second round. wouldnt shock me to see him go #15 or 17 overall


Poz is gonna be a player. thats pretty much all there is too it. Look at the LB's in the past who had good instincts, were productive in college, put up good workout numbers, and have a good attitude.... They more or less all work out well for the team that drafted them....

Jughead10
04-19-2007, 07:28 AM
Since when is Meekins a FB? Is he really being looked at there?

ricky bobby
04-19-2007, 10:12 AM
Ah, I see. That's actually a really good definition of what a mock draft should be about.

I must give you props for sticking with your guns on the Ginn pick also. I think some people would've folded on it by now.

We need a guy to replace Toomer or Burress, not Sinorice Moss. Neither Ginn nor Moss are capable of being #2 recievers at this point. Unless we switch over to a West Coast offense, which we won't, we don't need Ginn. Either Ginn or Moss will end up sitting on the bench as the #4 reciever and one of them will end up being a huge waste of pick. I'm not giving up on Moss so quickly, therefore I don't want Ginn. That pretty much sums up my entire arguement.

Giantsfan1080
04-19-2007, 10:14 AM
Since when is Meekins a FB? Is he really being looked at there?

I don't remember if it was here but I did read somewhere that they were thinking of trying Meekins at FB.

Jughead10
04-19-2007, 10:23 AM
I don't remember if it was here but I did read somewhere that they were thinking of trying Meekins at FB.

Thats a big ass fullback then. And he couldn't be used as an everyplay FB. Maybe he could be a Dan Klecko.

Number 10
04-19-2007, 10:29 AM
Since when is Meekins a FB? Is he really being looked at there?

He has been worked out at a blocking TE and FB, and I somewhat know him.

I'm not a friend of his or anything, but I played against him in high school and have been to a couple parties with, so I have followed his progression through college and everything. He is lightning quick and his best asset is playing with leverage, was a top wrestler in high school. He could definitely play a Dan Klecko type role.

Forenci
04-19-2007, 10:30 AM
We need a guy to replace Toomer or Burress, not Sinorice Moss. Neither Ginn nor Moss are capable of being #2 recievers at this point. Unless we switch over to a West Coast offense, which we won't, we don't need Ginn. Either Ginn or Moss will end up sitting on the bench as the #4 reciever and one of them will end up being a huge waste of pick. I'm not giving up on Moss so quickly, therefore I don't want Ginn. That pretty much sums up my entire arguement.

Oh heh, I still think it would be a bad pick. I was just giving him credit for not shying away from staying with that pick considering the huge debate we all had about before.

I'm a big Sinorice Moss fan to be honest, and I think given a chance he could be just as good as (if not better) than Ted Ginn. I think Moss is a better route runner and is a superior ball catcher.

I just hope we do something more than use him for screens and kick returns/punt returns this year.

ricky bobby
04-19-2007, 10:39 AM
Oh heh, I still think it would be a bad pick. I was just giving him credit for not shying away from staying with that pick considering the huge debate we all had about before.

I'm a big Sinorice Moss fan to be honest, and I think given a chance he could be just as good as (if not better) than Ted Ginn. I think Moss is a better route runner and is a superior ball catcher.

I just hope we do something more than use him for screens and kick returns/punt returns this year.
I'm a huge fan of Moss. I think he will break out big time this season. He has crazy athleticism, he just needs to stay healthy, which is difficult for players of that size. If you look at his workout numbers from last year, he had a sub 4.4 forty, and a 42 inch vertical. He also is very quick and agile. He will develop eventually, and he would develop faster than Ginn if we drafted him. However, we did interview Ginn recently, which leaves me scratching my head. :confused:

Forenci
04-19-2007, 10:42 AM
Well it could be a smoke screen. If someone wants him when he's around at 20 and they think we'll take him then we might have a good oppurtunity to trade down.

Either way, I look forward to watching Moss this year. Not only does he have great physical attributes but he seems like a really smart and well-spoken/high character guy. Can never go wrong with that kind of player on our team.

Jughead10
04-19-2007, 10:43 AM
I'm a huge fan of Moss. I think he will break out big time this season. He has crazy athleticism, he just needs to stay healthy, which is difficult for players of that size. If you look at his workout numbers from last year, he had a sub 4.4 forty, and a 42 inch vertical. He also is very quick and agile. He will develop eventually, and he would develop faster than Ginn if we drafted him. However, we did interview Ginn recently, which leaves me scratching my head. :confused:

I agree the only thing Ginn has on Moss is height and absolute straight line speed.

Damix
04-19-2007, 10:56 AM
I'm not sure Moss will be very good this year, but I won't give up on him, his brother wasn't great his first few years either

Forenci
04-21-2007, 06:36 PM
Not sure if it was worthy of it's own topic, but has anyone else been keeping up with NFL Europa? I watched it last year out of boredom, but found it very entertaining.

Was watching this kicker on the Frankfurt Galaxy who hammered a 57 yard field goal earlier today. Believe his last name is Reese Llloyd, he seriously looked good and hasn't missed a kick yet. He's not allocated by any team, so I think it would be great if we signed him - and if nothing else, he'd give some competition to Huston.

Humes had a couple of carries also, who didn't look very good based off that.

Cornerback who looked really well playing was a guy, Franklin, from the Cologne Centaurions looked extremely well making two interceptions in one game. Also looked to be shutting down a good receiver. Might be worth signing to bring some competition to Dockery and Underwood.

If you have NFL Network, it could really be worth taking a look.

ricky bobby
04-25-2007, 03:41 PM
1. Darrelle Revis CB

2. Craig Davis WR

3. Quincy Black WLB - Ran a 4.42 at the combine. I decided to look up some video of this guy and see how fast he plays. The video showed that he is spectacular in coverage. He plays extremely fast for a linebacker. He made several great interceptions and returns. I think he would be a great WLB for us.

4. Mario Henderson OT

5. Laron Harris or Walter Thomas NT

6. Ken Shackleford OG

7. Eldra Buckley, Romance Taylor or Ahmad Bradshaw RB

7. Craig Dahl SS

Forenci
04-25-2007, 05:41 PM
1. Darrelle Revis CB

2. Craig Davis WR

3. Quincy Black WLB - Ran a 4.42 at the combine. I decided to look up some video of this guy and see how fast he plays. The video showed that he is spectacular in coverage. He plays extremely fast for a linebacker. He made several great interceptions and returns. I think he would be a great WLB for us.

4. Mario Henderson OT

5. Laron Harris or Walter Thomas NT

6. Ken Shackleford OG

7. Eldra Buckley, Romance Taylor or Ahmad Bradshaw RB

7. Craig Dahl SS

Hmm. Seems all right, bur if Black is so good at coverage why not have him prioject at SAM? I mean, that's out posistion of need at linebacker I believe. I think Wilkinson will be pretty good at our WLB.

Again, I'm still curious of Wilkinson could play SAM for us when Mitchell is gone.

Love the Revis pick if he's available.

Romance Taylor has been going up draft boards lately, so I'm not sure if we could ger him in the 7th.

I'm also convinced that WR may need to wait until a fourth round because I think we'll need more depth for our offensive line. If Tony Ugoh or Aaron Sears drops to us in the second, I wouldn't hesitate to go after them. Don't be surprised if one of them does.

bigbluedefense
04-25-2007, 05:45 PM
Am I the only Giants fan who likes Eric Weddle?

scottyboy
04-25-2007, 06:05 PM
Am I the only Giants fan who likes Eric Weddle?

no, I've wanted him since December

hugegmenfan
04-25-2007, 06:57 PM
Am I the only Giants fan who likes Eric Weddle?

i like weddle a lot- but i do not want to draft him because safety is not a need and should not be addressed in this draft

Forenci
04-25-2007, 07:31 PM
I too like Weddle, but I think Damix made a good point with Brandon Meriwether because if both Gibril and Will do pan out at safety, which I think is a legitmate possibility, then we may end up having zero need for safety.

With Brandon he could become a legitimate cornerback, and cover the slot for us at the very least.

I don't think Weddle would be able to hold down the cornerback posistion as well as Brandon could.

scottyboy
04-25-2007, 07:39 PM
weddle is a CB/S 'tweener. he'd be a much better CB than brandon

Damix
04-25-2007, 09:56 PM
weddle is a CB/S 'tweener. he'd be a much better CB than brandon


I seriously doubt that, he relies on instincts and just does not have the tangibles to play corner in the pros, hes a FS true and true in my eyes.

eacantdraft
04-26-2007, 10:12 AM
The USA draft preview (just printed this week, very up to date) has most of the writers predicting we will take Joe Staley.

hugegmenfan
04-26-2007, 12:38 PM
The USA draft preview (just printed this week, very up to date) has most of the writers predicting we will take Joe Staley.

ugh no. thats what mel kiper thinks also. i will be very angry if we take staley especially over players like beason, revis, timmons, brown, branch, etc

G-Men88
04-26-2007, 02:41 PM
Round 1- Dwayne Bowe WR LSU
Round 2- Eric Wright CB UNLV
Round 3- Josh Beekman OG Boston College
Round 4- Zak DeOssie LB Brown
Round 5- Michael Johnson S Arizona
Round 6- Joe Newton TE Oregon State
Round7a- Garret Wolfe RB Northern Illinois
Round7b- Jeremy Clark DT Alabama

hugegmenfan
04-26-2007, 03:01 PM
Round 1- Dwayne Bowe WR LSU
Round 2- Eric Wright CB UNLV
Round 3- Josh Beekman OG Boston College
Round 4- Zak DeOssie LB Brown
Round 5- Michael Johnson S Arizona
Round 6- Joe Newton TE Oregon State
Round7a- Garret Wolfe RB Northern Illinois
Round7b- Jeremy Clark DT Alabama

its ok at best i like the 1st round pick but i would rather choose a LB. 2nd round is good and so is round 3. after that its average and nothing is really stimulating

scottyboy
04-26-2007, 03:04 PM
im sorry, but that did not make me happy.