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View Full Version : Answer this Debate please.


terribletowel39
04-16-2008, 01:04 PM
So me and one of my good buddies are getting into it while at work as to which QB is better. Ben Roethlisberger or Marc Bulger. He is a Rams fan and I am a Steelers fan, obviously. So we are biased. So I wanted to throw this up here and see what everyone else thinks.

Turtlepower
04-16-2008, 01:05 PM
This is possibly the easiest debate. Big Ben is hands down better.

LonghornsLegend
04-16-2008, 01:08 PM
I voted Big Ben, seems like I always end up defending him because it seems like people always find a way to knock his value down...People killed him earlier for being a game manager, and this season all his stats went up and they opened the offense up and he flourished, he has proven he can win games, and not lose games, he has a ring, what else do people want him to do?

Just seems like he isn't given enough credit for being a good QB sometimes which I never understood.


Although the age of these two are off, so are we judging based off right now, or at one point, or what? Either I way I'd bet if this makes it to 4 pages it will just turn into a eli, ben, rivers debate.

princefielder28
04-16-2008, 01:08 PM
Big Ben every day of the week

DawgBone
04-16-2008, 01:09 PM
Big Ben easily and im a Browns fan. But its a pretty crappy time of Bulgers career to throw him in an arguement like this. He might have been closer when he was performing well.

JagHombre22
04-16-2008, 01:09 PM
Big Ben.....and it's not close

619
04-16-2008, 01:10 PM
Bulger has been on a steady decline the last few seasons and its arguably beginning to look like he's on the downswing of his career. I'll take Roethlisberger presently and into the future with the scary thought that he hasn't yet come close to fulfilling his full potential. I can't even believe this is an argument really.

Jakey
04-16-2008, 01:11 PM
Yoda's vote doesnt count! :D

Sveen
04-16-2008, 01:28 PM
Big Ben. No question.

TitleTown088
04-16-2008, 01:42 PM
Better at what? conducting a motorcycle? I'll take Bulger on that one.

TheGreatEscape
04-16-2008, 01:44 PM
I think Bulger's just to beaten after getting crushed, he's starting to become injured more often and if the rams line isn't significantly better next year it might become time for him move on to a new challenge.

Packman1957
04-16-2008, 02:02 PM
If your talking about who I would rather have right now, no question it would be Big Ben.

Jakey
04-16-2008, 02:03 PM
I think the better question would be...Big Ben or Carson Palmer???

GB12
04-16-2008, 02:06 PM
If you asked this last year everyone would have said Bulger. Asking this year everyone will say Roethlisberger.

fenikz
04-16-2008, 02:16 PM
Skills wise its Bulger if he had the O-line he did in his 1st few years he would well on his way to the HOF but since he doesn't he keeps getting injured

nfrillman
04-16-2008, 03:15 PM
Bulger has been on a steady decline the last few seasons and its arguably beginning to look like he's on the downswing of his career. I'll take Roethlisberger presently and into the future with the scary thought that he hasn't yet come close to fulfilling his full potential. I can't even believe this is an argument really.

Ummm, wow. Way to just pull things out of thin air. Steady decline the last few years? Downswing of his career? He just turned 31 on April 5.

2004- 3964 yds, 21 TDs, 14 Ints, 93.7 rating
2005- 2297 yds, 14 TDs, 9 Ints, 94.4 rating
2006- 4301 yds, 24 TDs, 8 Ints, 92.9 rating
2007- 2392 yds, 11 TDs, 15 Ints, 70.3 rating

So, please explain how that is a steady decline. Last years stats had next to nothing to do with Bulger's ability. The Rams used around 30 different sets of offensive lines. Only one starting offensive lineman at the beginning of the season finished the season, and that one guy switched positions, Alex Barron. Orlando Pace was injured in week 1. The majority of the season the offensive line featured more starters who were signed off the street than were on the roster at the beginning of the season. The offensive lineman with the 2nd most starts on the team was Brandon Gorin, signed off the streets. The 2007 Rams were decimated by injuries to a historic level, particularly the offensive line. Bulger played with broken ribs for several weeks because the coaching staff would not pull him. So basically, please don't pull things out of thin air. That drives me more crazy than anything on here, when people make statements like they are facts when in reality they are just saying random things off the top of their heads.

Jakey
04-16-2008, 03:18 PM
Im obviously gonna say Ben...but if i was talking from an unbias standpoint, i would still take Ben. He has showed that when healthy he can be one of the best QB's in the league...and that was with a sive as an o-line.

DawgBone
04-16-2008, 03:19 PM
I think the better question would be...Big Ben or Carson Palmer???

Palmer is my choice. The majority of the Steelers success isnt because of their offense, its their deffense that has made them good. Roethlesberger has just brought a sence of consistency and toughness to the position. Heck even Charlie Batch has won tough games numerous times with that team.

Jakey
04-16-2008, 03:41 PM
^ I would obviously say Ben...but it is a good debate. When both healthy, i think one of them is a top 3 QB in the league...with the runner up 4th.

619
04-16-2008, 03:51 PM
Ummm, wow. Way to just pull things out of thin air. Steady decline the last few years? Downswing of his career? He just turned 31 on April 5.

2004- 3964 yds, 21 TDs, 14 Ints, 93.7 rating
2005- 2297 yds, 14 TDs, 9 Ints, 94.4 rating
2006- 4301 yds, 24 TDs, 8 Ints, 92.9 rating
2007- 2392 yds, 11 TDs, 15 Ints, 70.3 rating

So, please explain how that is a steady decline. Last years stats had next to nothing to do with Bulger's ability. The Rams used around 30 different sets of offensive lines. Only one starting offensive lineman at the beginning of the season finished the season, and that one guy switched positions, Alex Barron. Orlando Pace was injured in week 1. The majority of the season the offensive line featured more starters who were signed off the street than were on the roster at the beginning of the season. The offensive lineman with the 2nd most starts on the team was Brandon Gorin, signed off the streets. The 2007 Rams were decimated by injuries to a historic level, particularly the offensive line. Bulger played with broken ribs for several weeks because the coaching staff would not pull him. So basically, please don't pull things out of thin air. That drives me more crazy than anything on here, when people make statements like they are facts when in reality they are just saying random things off the top of their heads.

The jury is still out on Bulger. He'll have to reinstate himself as a top QB in this league again because people aren't just going to hand it to him. I might have exaggerated my statement there just a bit and should have said something along the lines he could possibly be on the downswing of his career. Nonetheless Roethlisberger's overall skillset still blows him out of the water here.

skarocksoi
04-16-2008, 04:34 PM
Better at what? conducting a motorcycle? I'll take Bulger on that one.

Kellen Winslow Jr gets an F-- in that one.

ninerfan
04-16-2008, 04:38 PM
no brainer its Ben

nfrillman
04-16-2008, 04:41 PM
The jury is still out on Bulger. He'll have to reinstate himself as a top QB in this league again because people aren't just going to hand it to him. I might have exaggerated my statement there just a bit and should have said something along the lines he could possibly be on the downswing of his career. Nonetheless Roethlisberger's overall skillset still blows him out of the water here.

Fair enough. I would say he is still considered a top 10 QB, but he will have to rebound to 2006 form to be considered top 5 again, like he was heading into last season. As for Roethlisberger's skillset blowing him away, I'm not so sure about that. I don't think I'd say any QB's skill set "blows away" another QB's that I consider good. When I think of QB's that Roethlisberger blows away, I think of the likes of Alex Smith, Rex Grossman, Steve McNair, etc. I guess I am just thinking of the phrase "blow out of the water" as an extreme descrepancy.

Top 10 in no order:
Manning
Brady
Brees
Palmer
Bulger
Roethlisberger
Romo
Hasselbeck
McNabb
Anderson

There really aren't that many good QB's in the league. The two other guys I considered were Eli and Garrard. Basically I think those are the top 12 and after that there is a noticable drop off, unless I am forgetting someone.

TitleTown088
04-16-2008, 04:54 PM
Andreson better than Eli? I'm one of Eli's biggest critics... but come on, the Giants just won a superbowl. What's Anderson done?

Turtlepower
04-16-2008, 04:56 PM
Andreson better than Eli? I'm one of Eli's biggest critics... but come on, the Giants just won a superbowl. What's Anderson done?

Yeah, I would like to hear an explanation about that one as well.

Gay Ork Wang
04-16-2008, 04:57 PM
Anderson even struggled down the stretch with superb Offense Around him...

Jakey
04-16-2008, 04:58 PM
Anderson looks like an osterich...Eli wins!

DragonFireKai
04-16-2008, 05:20 PM
Andreson better than Eli? I'm one of Eli's biggest critics... but come on, the Giants just won a superbowl. What's Anderson done?

Anderson's more accurate, threw more TDs, fewer INTs, despite throwing a comperable number of passes. Anderson's got one of, if not the, strongest arms in the league, and he has a much quicker release.

The Giants might have won a super bowl, but that was as a team. Manning has a comperable offense around him, and a much better defense.

On topic, I took Roethlisberger over Bulger.

YAYareaRB
04-16-2008, 08:47 PM
Just tell your friend...


SHAAAKE AND BAAAAKE!!!


I voted Big Ben by the way.

DragonFireKai
04-16-2008, 09:25 PM
Just tell your friend...


SHAAAKE AND BAAAAKE!!!

THAT JUST HAPPENED!

nfrillman
04-16-2008, 09:27 PM
Yeah, I would like to hear an explanation about that one as well.

Basically I just decided to throw his name up there because I didn't feel like researching this. They are both in the same range of QB's IMO. I know Eli won the Superbowl, but as far as picking between Anderson or Eli to build a team around, I would still pick Anderson. Manning still hasn't been a statistical success, in fact he has been below average stastically. Highest career rating, 77.0. Career rating 73.4. Highest career completion percentage, 57.7. Career completion percentage, 53.4. Do those sound like the numbers of a definite top 10 QB. If you say yes then you are delusional. Football is a team game, the Giants won the Superbowl. Manning still hasn't proven he is a top QB, and if you think he has then your qualifications are quite low. If winning a Superbowl make you a top QB then so is Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Jim McMahon, and others I am surely forgetting. If career numbers are your qualifications then you should consider raising your standards. Anderson had a much better season stastically than Manning has ever had, and that would seem to lead one to believe his potential may be higher. All that being said, thank you Eli for helping to beat the Patriots. I have been spared hearing about the 2007 Patriots for the rest of my life.

Note: I only saw 1 or 2 Browns games last year, so my assessment of Anderson almost soley based on stats. I know his stats may have been supported by the cast, but his stats are still better than any Eli has ever had.

Also, I forgot Kurt Warner, who I would put above both Anderson and Manning. That is based on how good they are right now.

kalbears13
04-16-2008, 09:53 PM
I believe Derek Anderson is one of the most overrated quarterbacks in the league. Anderson is very inaccurate. Despite having a respectable TD/INT ratio his completion percentage is very average. I think it's like 54% or 52%. Derek got a lot of help with big plays and an existant running game. If you look at the highlights of a lot of his touchdowns, it's a lot of Braylon, Kellen and sometimes Jurevicius making great catches.

In the ProBowl (yes I know it's the ProBowl so it's not worth a lot) Peyton Manning went out in the first quarter and did well and Big Ben did pretty well. I think the AFC scored 3 points under Derek Anderson and he had the whole second half. He looked horrible and played with pretty much the same team as Ben and Peyton.

Oh and I think they should have a motorcycle race when the Browns play the Steelers between Kellen Winslow and Ben Roethlisberger.

Yung Flippa
04-16-2008, 10:57 PM
Troy Smith is better then both, combined.
But I'll take Big Ben, he's led a team to the Super Bowl.

etk
04-16-2008, 11:23 PM
I believe Derek Anderson is one of the most overrated quarterbacks in the league. Anderson is very inaccurate. Despite having a respectable TD/INT ratio his completion percentage is very average. I think it's like 54% or 52%. Derek got a lot of help with big plays and an existant running game. If you look at the highlights of a lot of his touchdowns, it's a lot of Braylon, Kellen and sometimes Jurevicius making great catches.

In the ProBowl (yes I know it's the ProBowl so it's not worth a lot) Peyton Manning went out in the first quarter and did well and Big Ben did pretty well. I think the AFC scored 3 points under Derek Anderson and he had the whole second half. He looked horrible and played with pretty much the same team as Ben and Peyton.

Oh and I think they should have a motorcycle race when the Browns play the Steelers between Kellen Winslow and Ben Roethlisberger.

I understand what you're saying....he doesn't really have the talent or ability and he is supported by his teammates. I saw several Cleveland games last year and I saw it as "the glass is half-full": Anderson is a smart QB who knows he has big talented playmakers and he's able to throw the ball up for them to give them a chance to make plays. His throws are high-risk and low-percentage but it worked from what I saw. He's not the most accurate but he gets it where the receivers can make a play on it. Quinn is probably a better QB for any other team but in Cleveland I think you would see a more vanilla passing offense with a lower 3rd-down success rate if Quinn was the QB. Just my thoughts...

kalbears13
04-17-2008, 12:23 AM
I understand what you're saying....he doesn't really have the talent or ability and he is supported by his teammates. I saw several Cleveland games last year and I saw it as "the glass is half-full": Anderson is a smart QB who knows he has big talented playmakers and he's able to throw the ball up for them to give them a chance to make plays. His throws are high-risk and low-percentage but it worked from what I saw. He's not the most accurate but he gets it where the receivers can make a play on it. Quinn is probably a better QB for any other team but in Cleveland I think you would see a more vanilla passing offense with a lower 3rd-down success rate if Quinn was the QB. Just my thoughts...

I would think that Quinn would be the opposite. Maybe they would be more vanilla but they would be more consistant. Quinn is more of the high-percentage low-risk stuff. He seems to check down to the swing a lot (from what I saw in his Cleveland Brown debut where the defense was all prevent). Anderson seems to be the big play and going for the TD every down and Quinn seems like the kind of guy that can get those 10 yards when they need it. I'd take less excitement and 1 more win any day.

Bengalsrocket
04-17-2008, 01:05 AM
I hate the "so-and-so has a superbowl ring" argument when comparing two players. Rings are a product of a good team. Hell, even stats can be a product of a good team - just usually to a lesser extent. If it was Anderson's fault he didn't have a ring, then argue it. But its hard to place blame on a QB who had a defense that was so terrible ><

(note: I don't think Anderson is better than Eli, I just hate the argument ;) )

terribletowel39
04-17-2008, 01:06 AM
Oh and I think they should have a motorcycle race when the Browns play the Steelers between Kellen Winslow and Ben Roethlisberger.
Ben would win hands down. He was on a Hayabusa and wasn't Winslow on a hog?? Hayabusa's smoke Corvette's and Vipers. No way Winslow keeps up. :) I'm just saying.

kalbears13
04-17-2008, 09:28 AM
Ben would win hands down. He was on a Hayabusa and wasn't Winslow on a hog?? Hayabusa's smoke Corvette's and Vipers. No way Winslow keeps up. :) I'm just saying.

Who would win in motorcycle jousting? Kellen Winslow.

And all of this of course would have to be with no cars within a mile.

ATLDirtyBirds
04-17-2008, 09:59 AM
I'm going with Big Ben.

tjpackers
04-17-2008, 10:39 AM
big ben is the younger better player

OzTitan
04-17-2008, 10:50 AM
Anderson even struggled down the stretch with superb Offense Around him...

He struggled just about any time the Browns played a decently ranked D.