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View Full Version : Redskins offer on Chad


toonsterwu
04-22-2008, 11:54 AM
I'm not sure if this is deserving of a topic in it's own right, but it didn't seem to fit with anything else and is sure worthy of discussion somewhere outside team pages.

There was this report today

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/

Redskins Again Make Play for C. Johnson
This in from the Jasons...

League sources said last Thursday that the Redskins made another offer to the Cincinnati Bengals for disgruntled Pro Bowl wide receiver Chad Johnson, offering Cincinnati first- and third-round picks in this weekend's draft for Johnson. In addition, the Redskins are prepared to guarantee Johnson about $21 million as part of a new contract. ESPN today reported the bulk of what we were told last week and were in the process of confirming with sources familiar with the Redskins' ongoing pursuit of Johnson.

As a rule, teams do not have much to say about such things particularly right before the draft and Redskins officials are currently unavailable to comment. However, the team's annual draft luncheon begins at 1 and you can bet this will be addressed. Stay tuned.

As we reported in January, acquiring Johnson is the Redskins' No. 1 offseason objective. Owner Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato, executive vice president of football operations, told several head coaching candidates that they sought Johnson to be the primary target for developing quarterback Jason Campbell. The Redskins, however, have been repeatedly rebuffed in their attempts to complete a deal for Johnson.

Bengals owner Mike Brown has told several teams that he will not trade Johnson despite his antics, especially after recently restructuring Johnson's contract to elevate him among the league's highest-paid players at his position. Johnson's agent, Drew Rosenhaus, has a cozy relationship with Snyder and Cerrato and has been working behind the scenes to broker a trade.

With the 21st pick in the draft and nine picks overall, the Redskins, who have many needs to fill, could find it difficult to trade down if the top players they have targeted are off the board when they pick. The Redskins are expected to continue pursuing a deal for Johnson throughout the draft.

and there's this

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3358557

Serious enough to swat away an offer from the Washington Redskins that could have netted the Bengals two first-round draft picks, team and league sources said.

The Redskins offered its first-round pick, No. 21 overall, and a conditional third-rounder in 2009 that could escalate to a first rounder if Johnson and the Redskins hit certain performance levels, the sources said.

______________

As much as I am partial to the Redskins, this does scream tampering if the Redskins are talking money to other people. Now, granted, proving tampering is easier said than done, but this seems iffy.

As for the end result? I think Chad Johnson does help the team, but I'm not sure if giving up two firsts is worth it. A first and a 3rd seems a lot as well, although that's a bit more palatable. That said, the Redskins do have needs at DB and DL as well, along with a need to get younger on the OL. They could still have a 2nd/3rd. That said, Cincinnati doesn't seem likely to take any deal.

I think, for Cincinnati, if they can get potentially 2 1sts, they have to ponder it. 5 picks in the first 3 rounds this year could go a long way towards addressing defensive needs and finding some more offensive playmakers.

Flyboy
04-22-2008, 11:58 AM
That's a really good deal for the Bengals imo. The only thing I could see them not taking it is not wanting to take on Johnson's salary impact.

DiG
04-22-2008, 12:05 PM
It might be a lot but because of the cap hit the Bengals would take you almost have to entice them enough to consider it. i know its shady and probably against the rules but it wouldnt surprise me to see something worked out whereas the redskins and bengals complete a trade in june that would send a conditional pick and a player drafted by the skin in rd 1 to the bengals for ocho. and what im tryin to say is that player drafted by the skins may not have been the top of their board...if you get my drift...

that cuts the cap hit in half for the bengals.

vidae
04-22-2008, 12:08 PM
That seems like a good deal for him.

WMD
04-22-2008, 12:09 PM
They should make this same offer for Roy Williams..

wingboy2999
04-22-2008, 12:11 PM
They should make this same offer for Roy Williams..

IF we move him... definitely go with that. And then hope the Skins run rampant through the NFC on the way to a 1st next year.

LonghornsLegend
04-22-2008, 12:11 PM
This isn't a good deal, its a great deal, and I'd be sick if Dallas offered anything remotely close...The Skins were the big players in this to begin with, the fact that Cincy shut this down, and said their stance isn't changing lets it known they arent interested in moving him which is surprising...They could still get another WR in the 1st, and you really cant beat two first.


This sounds like a Redskins type deal, I could also see them increasing it within the week.

bigbluedefense
04-22-2008, 12:15 PM
why do WRs have such a ****** hard on to come to the NFC East and make our lives more difficult.

Chad to Washington potentially, maybe Roy to Dallas or Philly.

Thank god for a pass rush. CB @ the 31 pick ftw.

Sniper
04-22-2008, 12:17 PM
why do WRs have such a ****** hard on to come to the NFC East and make our lives more difficult.

Chad to Washington potentially, maybe Roy to Dallas or Philly.

Thank god for a pass rush. CB @ the 31 pick ftw.

Roy to Philly. WE CAN DO IT!

wingboy2999
04-22-2008, 12:17 PM
This isn't a good deal, its a great deal, and I'd be sick if Dallas offered anything remotely close...The Skins were the big players in this to begin with, the fact that Cincy shut this down, and said their stance isn't changing lets it known they arent interested in moving him which is surprising...They could still get another WR in the 1st, and you really cant beat two first.


This sounds like a Redskins type deal, I could also see them increasing it within the week.

Come on Millen... swoop in on this! Get use 2 1sts!

LonghornsLegend
04-22-2008, 12:17 PM
why do WRs have such a ****** hard on to come to the NFC East and make our lives more difficult.

Chad to Washington potentially, maybe Roy to Dallas or Philly.

Thank god for a pass rush. CB @ the 31 pick ftw.

Does seem like every Wr has been rumored to go to the NFC east...But oh how I would enjoy seeing Chad vs T New, but considering Moss was the guy who kills us every year, hopefully whoever we draft can get up to speed quickly...Redskins would be pretty explosive on offense.

my future me
04-22-2008, 12:20 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3358557

I think that cap hit is too much to overcome

bigbluedefense
04-22-2008, 12:25 PM
Does seem like every Wr has been rumored to go to the NFC east...But oh how I would enjoy seeing Chad vs T New, but considering Moss was the guy who kills us every year, hopefully whoever we draft can get up to speed quickly...Redskins would be pretty explosive on offense.

ive always said, and im a big believer of this: the key to stopping a good WR is not stopping the WR, its stopping the qb throwing him the ball.

Its easier said than done with elite qbs like Romo or McNabb, but the Redskins, the book is out on their qb. So if i were to devise a scheme to stopping them, id simply double up on Chad, put my fastest CB on Moss in man, and send an array of blitz packages to confuse the qb.

He has a slow release, and he's inexperienced, force him to make that 3rd read with pressure in his face. Id be much more worried about Roy to Dallas or Philly bc i feel those 2 teams have elite quarterbacks who can beat gameplans. Great qbs, you can't really gameplan against them, theyre too good for that. You just have to do what you do best, and try to execute it as best you can. Thats what would have to be done against Romo or McNabb. Youre not gonna scheme those 2 to defeat.

Geo
04-22-2008, 12:31 PM
Everyone wants to go to the NFC East because the Giants secondary sucks, bro. :D

Also, McNabb and elite QB in the same sentence? FAIL.

bigbluedefense
04-22-2008, 12:35 PM
Everyone wants to go to the NFC East because the Giants secondary sucks, bro. :D

Also, McNabb and elite QB in the same sentence? FAIL.

when he's healthy he's pretty damn good, ill give him that. When he had TO or Stallworth, or anything remotely acceptable at WR he looked like a stud.

Yes, our secondary is iffy right now. Thats why im hoping we bulk it up more this offseason. A CB and a safety would be nice.

I personally feel we're a CB and a safety away from having an elite defense.

toonsterwu
04-22-2008, 12:36 PM
Come on Millen... swoop in on this! Get use 2 1sts!

Chad is a better fit than Roy for Zorn's offense, IMO. Now, Roy is so talented, it doesn't make a difference, but in terms of fit, Chad is better, and I'm not sure the Redskins fork out 2 1sts for Roy. Just a hunch there

themaninblack
04-22-2008, 12:38 PM
they should do this. if not they are crazy.

bigbluedefense
04-22-2008, 12:39 PM
Chad is a better fit than Roy for Zorn's offense, IMO. Now, Roy is so talented, it doesn't make a difference, but in terms of fit, Chad is better, and I'm not sure the Redskins fork out 2 1sts for Roy. Just a hunch there

id take Roy over Chad. Younger, can be just as talented (Roy would have incredible numbers with Palmer at qb instead of Harrington/Kitna), and no drama.

bigbluedefense
04-22-2008, 12:40 PM
Why don't the Lions and Bengals trade Roy for Chad straight up?

I just thought of that now, that would be an interesting proposal.

Geo
04-22-2008, 12:42 PM
id take Roy over Chad. Younger, can be just as talented (Roy would have incredible numbers with Palmer at qb instead of Harrington/Kitna), and no drama.
Williams does have a history of injuries though.

aNYtitan
04-22-2008, 12:45 PM
Why aren't the Titans big players in either Roy Williams or Chad Johnson? They both address the biggest need that we have and would give Vince a go to option at every time. Come on GM, we need to make some serious moves!

bigbluedefense
04-22-2008, 12:46 PM
Williams does have a history of injuries though.

Thats true. Didn't think of that. Player for player though, who would you choose?

Geo
04-22-2008, 12:50 PM
Roy Williams, absolutely.

Although I'd take Anquan Boldin over both. I love Q, one of my fave players in the league.

bigbluedefense
04-22-2008, 12:54 PM
Thats tough, Boldin or Williams? Both are great taking punishment in the middle, but Williams can stretch you out more.

Id lean towards Williams honestly. He's more complete than Boldin is. Although I love Boldin.

djp
04-22-2008, 12:58 PM
Thats true. Didn't think of that. Player for player though, who would you choose?

They both have a bit of an ego problem...

It's tough. I would probably lean Roy because of the age factor.

Let's look at the #'s

Chad Johnson

Age : 30

YPC : 15.0

TD : 8

100+ yard games : 5

First Downs : 74

Let's compare that to Roy's last full season...

Age : 26

YPC : 16.0

TD : 7

100+ yard games : 6

First Downs : 66

Now at first glance, we see that the numbers are pretty even, and both teams threw the ball a lot (596 times for Detroit, 575 times for Cincinatti)

In the end, I take Roy because of his age... they are similarly productive receivers when healthy.

ATLDirtyBirds
04-22-2008, 01:03 PM
Thats tough, Boldin or Williams? Both are great taking punishment in the middle, but Williams can stretch you out more.

Id lean towards Williams honestly. He's more complete than Boldin is. Although I love Boldin.



I'd go with Boldin over Williams.

Vikes99ej
04-22-2008, 01:06 PM
Why don't the Lions and Bengals trade Roy for Chad straight up?

I just thought of that now, that would be an interesting proposal.

Do you think Chad Johnson would be happy on the Lions???

Flyboy
04-22-2008, 01:07 PM
when he's healthy he's pretty damn good, ill give him that. When he had TO or Stallworth, or anything remotely acceptable at WR he looked like a stud.

Yes, our secondary is iffy right now. Thats why im hoping we bulk it up more this offseason. A CB and a safety would be nice.

I personally feel we're a CB and a safety away from having an elite defense.

At least Aaron Ross is a beast. Ass.

LonghornsLegend
04-22-2008, 01:17 PM
Thats tough, Boldin or Williams? Both are great taking punishment in the middle, but Williams can stretch you out more.

Id lean towards Williams honestly. He's more complete than Boldin is. Although I love Boldin.

I'd just take Roy because of age, its literally a wash, I made a thread on these 2 awhile back and it was dead even..Similiar styles, running with the ball after the catch is a wash, I just view Roy as more of a deep ball threat, who is a tad younger, either way those 2 are the targets for Dallas and I would welcome both with a 1st and a player, just seems like both teams aren't budging...I haven't even heard anything out of Arizona suggesting they would trade him, but I will be holding onto that glimmer of hope draft day.


Although I agree with your pass rush theory, you guys shut down our passing game in the playoffs when our WR's had a better matchup with Ross being banged up, which is why I want a huge NT like Red Bryant, and another Safety who can make plays with the ball in the air...We get Bryant up front, Burnett can start in base packages and we have alot more speed.

senormysterioso
04-22-2008, 01:18 PM
They both have a bit of an ego problem...

It's tough. I would probably lean Roy because of the age factor.

Let's look at the #'s

Chad Johnson

Age : 30

YPC : 15.0

TD : 8

100+ yard games : 5

First Downs : 74

Let's compare that to Roy's last full season...

Age : 26

YPC : 16.0

TD : 7

100+ yard games : 6

First Downs : 66

Now at first glance, we see that the numbers are pretty even, and both teams threw the ball a lot (596 times for Detroit, 575 times for Cincinatti)

In the end, I take Roy because of his age... they are similarly productive receivers when healthy.

Key word full. Also, Chad is more marketable than Roy, he'll sell a ton more shirts.

703SKINS202
04-22-2008, 01:20 PM
just when i thought the redskins thought they knew what they were doing....

Geo
04-22-2008, 01:22 PM
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20080422/SPT02/304220098/

Marvin to Chad: Sit out
by Mark Curnutte

Bengals coach Marvin Lewis, in a pre-draft news conference this morning, said the Bengals have not received any trade offers, including one from the Redskins for their first-round pick this year and third-round pick next year, for disgruntled wide receiver Chad Johnson.

And when asked if Johnsonís threat to not to play would affect the teamís draft plans, Lewis said it wouldn't, and added that Johnson should be prepared to sit out the season.

"I think he has made it clear heís not going to play, and thatís what Iíve been aware of since the end of last season. I think itís time to do what you say youíre going to do, and weíll move forward.

"He has a contract through 2011. He stated, without an opportunity to go to another team with a new contract he wasnít going to play. I think heís a man of his word, and says heís not going to play, so donít play."

In its report of the Redskins trade offer, ESPN.com said the 2009 pick could elevate to a first if Johnson were to hit performance incentives with Washington.

"Errant," is how Lewis described the report of the trade offer. "I donít think Mike Brown received a call."

"No," Lewis said again when asked if Brown had received any trade offers.

LonghornsLegend
04-22-2008, 01:25 PM
Wow, those are some "man-up" words coming from Marvin...But at the same time, at what point do you realize your job is in jeapordy? I mean yes, sit him down and make him suffer, all the while you go on to a top 5 pick, no team chemistry, and you lose your job, how is that a better scenario for him over trading for picks, stockpiling talent, and trying to salvage the season and his job?


I just don't get that, one more losing season is all he has left.

SeanTaylorRIP
04-22-2008, 02:00 PM
Chad is not worth that much at all, I don't even know why we are in such a need for WR. We do need a bigger guy but we shouldn't force ourselves to make a move just to get one. While we don't have size, Moss, Randle El, and Cooley aren't terrible. I'd much rather opt for using our 2nd rounder on a WR like James Hardy or Malcolm Kelly, and going strongside DE or Safety round 1. If we were offering this kind of deal for a Boldin or even Roy Will, I'd say ok, but Chad I just see too much trouble in trading for him.

wingboy2999
04-22-2008, 02:02 PM
Chad is not worth that much at all, I don't even know why we are in such a need for WR. We do need a bigger guy but we shouldn't force ourselves to make a move just to get one. While we don't have size, Moss, Randle El, and Cooley aren't terrible. I'd much rather opt for using our 2nd rounder on a WR like James Hardy or Malcolm Kelly, and going strongside DE or Safety round 1. If we were offering this kind of deal for a Boldin or even Roy Will, I'd say ok, but Chad I just see too much trouble in trading for him.

So you are putting more value on Williams then 85? I like your thinking.

no love
04-22-2008, 02:16 PM
Thats tough, Boldin or Williams? Both are great taking punishment in the middle, but Williams can stretch you out more.

Id lean towards Williams honestly. He's more complete than Boldin is. Although I love Boldin.

That is tough, but Boldin is the better run blocker. So if Marinelli wants to be committed to the run, Boldin would worlds better.

Although a player for player trade is not going to happen. Both guys want new contracts, neither team wants to award them. It doesn't make sense.

I could really see Boldin being a beast in Tennessee, Vince's ability to scramble will allow him to work back to the qb and get people out of position to stop his RAC.

Sniper
04-22-2008, 02:35 PM
That is tough, but Boldin is the better run blocker. So if Marinelli wants to be committed to the run, Boldin would worlds better.

Although a player for player trade is not going to happen. Both guys want new contracts, neither team wants to award them. It doesn't make sense.

I could really see Boldin being a beast in Tennessee, Vince's ability to scramble will allow him to work back to the qb and get people out of position to stop his RAC.

Boldin in Philadelphia would be even better.

MetSox17
04-22-2008, 03:43 PM
Boldin in Philadelphia would be even better.

You need a quarterback that can stay on the field to get him the ball first though.

Geo
04-22-2008, 05:07 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3358557

Good article, check it out. Included is Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis confirming the Redskins offer, an about-face from earlier in the day.

Take the deal imo! Yeah, it hurts to show that Johnson walked all over the franchise ... but this move is best for the franchise. Don't just look at the guaranteed money the Bengals will have to pay, stingingly, in trading away Johnson. Don't forget that they won't have to pay his base salaries anymore, and it wouldn't surprise me if those base salaries were close to what they would pay annually to one first round pick and another Day One pick in 09 maybe.

Personally:

paying Johnson's guaranteed bonus over two years + paying potentially two 1st round picks > paying Johnson's bonus money + paying Johnson's base salaries. Maybe the numbers point the other way, but that's how I see the long-term value.

It hurts to take the hit in respect around the league, for Johnson to play the Bengals franchise like a puppet ... but I would take the hit and take the deal.

Flyboy
04-22-2008, 05:10 PM
Yeah, the Bengals need to jump all over that deal.

Canadian_draft_fan
04-22-2008, 07:12 PM
just when i thought the redskins thought they knew what they were doing....

I just Thank God the Bungles were too stupid to take the Skins up on the offer. I pray that Vinny/Danny don't try to sweeten it either.

Bosanac01
04-22-2008, 07:14 PM
I like that they wont trade him, whenever a player says trade me, the team is looking to trade him. I like what the Bengals are doing though, you want to be traded, we dont want to trade so sit.

Bosanac01
04-22-2008, 07:22 PM
http://sportswrap.berecruited.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/chad2.jpg

Now you Sit!!

LonghornsLegend
04-22-2008, 07:32 PM
I like that they wont trade him, whenever a player says trade me, the team is looking to trade him. I like what the Bengals are doing though, you want to be traded, we dont want to trade so sit.

And all in the process, Marvin Lewis gets fired...I guess thats a win situation for him:rolleyes:

PackerLegend
04-22-2008, 07:48 PM
The Packers had Mike McKenzie and Javon Walker who both didnt want to play for the Packers anymore. In the end it was better that we did trade them. So what if a team says let em sit, it means nothing. There comes a point when its better to get rid of players who are causing trouble on your team. In the end its likely the player will play anyways because they want money but you know there not going to play 100% and will only be a distraction. Because the CBA is so messed up recently signed guys are getting more then players that are better then them. This just makes the better players want more, teams don't want to and then theres problems.

By saying and actually letting them sit or half a** play only stalls the problem. Much like Moss in Oakland.

PalmerToCJ
04-22-2008, 08:43 PM
Man, this kills me.

I want him gone and that's an awesome offer. Ugh, I'm all about not taking crap from a player but sometimes when something like this comes along you have to give in.

Think of the possibilities...

9. Sedrick Ellis
21. Limas Sweed/Johnathan Stewart/DeSean Jackson/Kenny Phillips

I really really really really really hope they give in and do this. We save 1.3 mil due to Pollack retiring, if we are able to draft Ellis then John Thornton's large contract would likely be cut.