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View Full Version : Shockey to the Saints..


drmoyer421
04-25-2008, 05:46 PM
Just heard it on SIRIUS..

They said its just on the wire, and that Mort is reporting it too.

For thier second round and more that werent announced






im looking for a link asap for everyone who needs one.

princefielder28
04-25-2008, 05:47 PM
Saints go DT no matter what in round one?

d34ng3l021
04-25-2008, 05:47 PM
Damn that offense. As if they needed more weapons.

Aftermath
04-25-2008, 05:49 PM
So do the Saints move up at all in round 1 now?

LonghornsLegend
04-25-2008, 05:50 PM
He will definately get alot of looks in the passing game with that offense...Good move for them, they still should try to make a move for Ellis.

Flyboy
04-25-2008, 05:50 PM
I hope we just gave up our 2nd & 5th.

Vikes99ej
04-25-2008, 05:51 PM
I really didn't see the Giants trading him away, but I guess Shockey was really pissed. The Giants must have more confidence in Boss than I thought, or they're thinking of drafting a replacement.

Flyboy
04-25-2008, 05:59 PM
The only place that seems to be reporting it is PFW. So, I'll hold off on believing it for now.

Damix
04-25-2008, 06:00 PM
The only place that seems to be reporting it is PFW. So, I'll hold off on believing it for now.

Mortensen as well.

Flyboy
04-25-2008, 06:02 PM
Mortensen as well.

Ehh. Eli Manning was supposed to be out for 4-6 weeks too. ;)

I trust in Adam!

DChess
04-25-2008, 06:02 PM
looks like they arent trading up

Sveen
04-25-2008, 06:04 PM
Wow. I can't go to bed now with this up in the air. Better stay up for another 30 minutes or so :)

LonghornsLegend
04-25-2008, 06:09 PM
No Roman Harper included? Great deal, the Saints are definately going for the NFC South title at the least.

EvilMonkey
04-25-2008, 06:12 PM
So do the Saints move up at all in round 1 now?

dont have the ammo anymore unless they do something like trade Jamaal Brown or something.

Sveen
04-25-2008, 06:12 PM
No Roman Harper included? Great deal, the Saints are definately going for the NFC South title at the least.
We are going to the Super Bowl ;)

Flyboy
04-25-2008, 06:12 PM
Wow. I can't go to bed now with this up in the air. Better stay up for another 30 minutes or so :)

To be honest, I doubt we know 100% sure about the deal until Draft Day.

DragonFireKai
04-25-2008, 06:14 PM
Damn that offense. As if they needed more weapons.

They still need a healthy running back.

LonghornsLegend
04-25-2008, 06:15 PM
To be honest, I doubt we know 100% sure about the deal until Draft Day.

I still remember Michael A. Smith was pretty confident this was happening, forget Adam, thats the insider who I'll take his word on something...Honestly wish he had a more vocal role on ESPN.

Flyboy
04-25-2008, 06:16 PM
They still need a healthy running back.

Aaron Stecker is serviceable at best and I still think we found a diamond in the rough in Pierre Thomas. Whether or not, the coaching staff wants to make PT "the man" is yet to be seen.

Flyboy
04-25-2008, 06:16 PM
I still remember Michael A. Smith was pretty confident this was happening, forget Adam, thats the insider who I'll take his word on something...Honestly wish he had a more vocal role on ESPN.

Michael Smith is a pimp, that's for sure.

terribletowel39
04-25-2008, 06:16 PM
They still need a healthy running back.
Not really. With that passing attack. Not many will be able to stop it. Just keep Brees upright and you can consider it a W for NO.

Flyboy
04-25-2008, 06:21 PM
Not really. With that passing attack. Not many will be able to stop it. Just keep Brees upright and you can consider it a W for NO.

Let's trade our All-Pro LT while we're at it!

terribletowel39
04-25-2008, 06:27 PM
Let's trade our All-Pro LT while we're at it!
While Dorsey would be a better player for yall because 1) he is better than anything on the roster right now and better than Ellis and 2) he is hometown, grew up 50 miles west of the Superdome. I drove it this weekend. He will bring in some folks. It just isn't worth giving that up when Ellis is still a really good player and has the potential to be Pro Bowl caliber.

I got your sarcasm, just agreeing and throwing in my two cents.

Thunder&Lightning
04-25-2008, 06:34 PM
First Vilma then Morgan now Shockey they are signing big names but big names with serious injury questions... Im not convinced that shockey let alone any player can come back and ever be 100% after breaking their leg...

TheGreatEscape
04-25-2008, 06:39 PM
damn it, although I love the flexibility it gives us in the draft if we also net a player like harper.

D-Unit
04-25-2008, 06:43 PM
Shockey is damaged goods. That said, Brees is much better at targeting his TE than Eli.

Joeyjr09
04-25-2008, 06:44 PM
First Vilma then Morgan now Shockey they are signing big names but big names with serious injury questions... Im not convinced that shockey let alone any player can come back and ever be 100% after breaking their leg...

They are not only signing big names, they have made it a point to go out and get as many Miami Hurricanes as they can. I expect some U's being thrown around in the Super Dome.

TitleTown088
04-25-2008, 06:45 PM
linky

Pro Football Weekly is hearing that the Saints and Giants may already have a deal in place that would send Jeremy Shockey to New Orleans.
PFW isn't the greatest source, but ESPN's Chris Mortensen says he's heard similar rumors. Pro Football Weekly says the deal would send "multiple picks" to New York, including the Saints' second-round pick (No. 40 overall). An NFL source tells Profootballtalk.com that Shockey hasn't heard a trade is done.
Source: Pro Football Weekly

NY+Giants=NYG
04-25-2008, 06:51 PM
I don't know if this is true. None of the beat writers have mentioned anything, which is really rare because someone would have let the cat of the bag so to speak. And the national media is always late compared to the local media in picking up stories, that usually are run here first. Could be the Giants don't want to announce it yet? Yeah, but I want to see it in print first by Ralph V, Vinny D, Arthur Staple, or Mike Garafolo before I believe it.

BlindSite
04-25-2008, 06:54 PM
I don't know why the Saints love building offense and ignore that defense. Sure they've upgraded it some this offseason but their secondary still isn't built for shoot outs.

Dam8610
04-25-2008, 07:02 PM
Aaron Stecker is serviceable at best and I still think we found a diamond in the rough in Pierre Thomas. Whether or not, the coaching staff wants to make PT "the man" is yet to be seen.

I like how you don't even mention the #2 overall pick of the 2006 draft as a possibility. Not saying you should, I just find it funny.

bearfan
04-25-2008, 07:08 PM
They still need a healthy running back.

I would take the Bush/McAlister/Thomas combo any day. Thomas if healthy is a beast.

TitleTown088
04-25-2008, 07:10 PM
I don't know if this is true. .

You mean you don't want it to be true because your username will no longer make sense?

LonghornsLegend
04-25-2008, 07:16 PM
First Vilma then Morgan now Shockey they are signing big names but big names with serious injury questions... Im not convinced that shockey let alone any player can come back and ever be 100% after breaking their leg...

Steve Smith broke his left leg, and came back just as beastly as ever...Bones heal alot faster, and better then tendons or ACLs.

DragonFireKai
04-25-2008, 07:21 PM
I would take the Bush/McAlister/Thomas combo any day. Thomas if healthy is a beast.

With the rate that McAllister and Thomas get injured, you're essentially saying you'd take Reggie Bush any day. I certainly wouldn't.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-25-2008, 07:25 PM
You mean you don't want it to be true because your username will no longer make sense?

Nah I am a mod for our official site so I could change it. Not really a big deal. Actually someone mentioned Boss +Manning= Banning, lol, which I thought was funny. But nah stupid stuff like username means nothing to me in the scheme of things.

Ness
04-25-2008, 07:30 PM
Was Eric Johnson not good enough?

Flyboy
04-25-2008, 07:38 PM
I don't know why the Saints love building offense and ignore that defense. Sure they've upgraded it some this offseason but their secondary still isn't built for shoot outs.

Because talks of giving up our stud LT for an unproven DT definitely means we're ignoring our defense. Yep.

bigbluedefense
04-25-2008, 07:42 PM
Nah I am a mod for our official site so I could change it. Not really a big deal. Actually someone mentioned Boss +Manning= Banning, lol, which I thought was funny. But nah stupid stuff like username means nothing to me in the scheme of things.

hahahhahaa! do it! that would be a kick ass sn.

as for this trade, ive said all along, im fine whether it happened or didn't happen. We had all the leverage here, and Im excited about having the 41st pick.

Shockey, I love the player. I honestly felt based on his play last year, that he's the best blocking TE out of all the pass catching TEs in the league. He's also a stud receiver, the problem is he would never realize his potential in our system.

I promise you this, under Payton, Shockey is going to beast it if he stays healthy. People don't realize how good Shockey is because the system held him back so much with us. But with the Saints, I think he'll be a top 3 maybe top 2 TE in the league next year if he can stay healthy.


As for us being better or not without him...we're not but we are. We lose a lot in the run game bc his blocking is incredible, but you can't help but notice how much more comfortable Eli was running that huddle without him and having a reliable route runner with soft hands like Boss on the field. It could be another example of addition by subtraction.

but in all honesty, this is most likely a win/win situation for both sides. Shockey got he wanted, and the Giants do whats best for Eli.

holt_bruce81
04-25-2008, 07:49 PM
Could the Saints reach for Kentwan Balmer?

NY+Giants=NYG
04-25-2008, 07:50 PM
hahahhahaa! do it! that would be a kick ass sn.

as for this trade, ive said all along, im fine whether it happened or didn't happen. We had all the leverage here, and Im excited about having the 41st pick.

Shockey, I love the player. I honestly felt based on his play last year, that he's the best blocking TE out of all the pass catching TEs in the league. He's also a stud receiver, the problem is he would never realize his potential in our system.

I promise you this, under Payton, Shockey is going to beast it if he stays healthy. People don't realize how good Shockey is because the system held him back so much with us. But with the Saints, I think he'll be a top 3 maybe top 2 TE in the league next year if he can stay healthy.


As for us being better or not without him...we're not but we are. We lose a lot in the run game bc his blocking is incredible, but you can't help but notice how much more comfortable Eli was running that huddle without him and having a reliable route runner with soft hands like Boss on the field. It could be another example of addition by subtraction.

but in all honesty, this is most likely a win/win situation for both sides. Shockey got he wanted, and the Giants do whats best for Eli.

We say that about Eli and Shockey, but our running game, specifically Jacobs sucked without Shockey. We can't power without him sealing the outside, and against playoff calibar teams, especially in the playoffs, Jacobs can't run well against these defenses if we can't run our bread and butter running play. Are we going to run power with Mathews and Boss?

Below are plays from the Eagles breakdown I did earlier in the year. Overall I am not happy with this move at all, if we did in fact trade shockey.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/Minion6990/Giants-Eagles07/r1_0001.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/Minion6990/Giants-Eagles07/r2_0001.jpg

bigbluedefense
04-25-2008, 07:54 PM
Shock, youre forgetting one thing though: It was Boss's rookie year. Give him time, he'll get better at blocking. Look at the exponential improvement Boss made blocking from week 1 up to the SB.

Now he'll have an entire TC to get even better. He'll be a solid blocker, we just have to exercise patience. Again, he was just a rookie. If you compare his blocking as a rookie to Shockey's blocking when he was a rookie, Boss is on pace to be actually a better blocker.

But we just have to give it time. Also, our run game will probably be readjusted to make up for it. Im guessing more plays with Matthews on the field as well.

If this means Bradshaw gets more carries, that might be indirectly a good thing. Again, we have to exercise patience, let's give Boss a shot to show what he can do. I have confidence in him.

He's no Shockey, but he's not a bad TE either.

Dam8610
04-25-2008, 07:55 PM
Does anyone have a link to confirm?

Vikes99ej
04-25-2008, 07:59 PM
Could the Saints reach for Kentwan Balmer?

Do that, and you have Jonathan Sullivan all over again.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-25-2008, 08:01 PM
Shock, youre forgetting one thing though: It was Boss's rookie year. Give him time, he'll get better at blocking. Look at the exponential improvement Boss made blocking from week 1 up to the SB.

Now he'll have an entire TC to get even better. He'll be a solid blocker, we just have to exercise patience. Again, he was just a rookie. If you compare his blocking as a rookie to Shockey's blocking when he was a rookie, Boss is on pace to be actually a better blocker.

But we just have to give it time. Also, our run game will probably be readjusted to make up for it. Im guessing more plays with Matthews on the field as well.

If this means Bradshaw gets more carries, that might be indirectly a good thing. Again, we have to exercise patience, let's give Boss a shot to show what he can do. I have confidence in him.

He's no Shockey, but he's not a bad TE either.


It's not the patience part, I have an issue with, it's Jacobs running our bread and butter play. If our guys can't seal, Jacobs will get stopped in the backfield. Not only that his vision sucks, and he has no cutback ability. If it was Bradshaw or Ward I don't have to worry about both have cutback ability and vision. One specific example was the BIlls game, on Bradshaw's TD. That was power! And it fell apart, and bradshaw used his vision and then cut it back backside, and went in for a long TD. That's fine, I can deal with failed plays IF we have the right guy to see it and fix it. I have broke down enough games to realize Jacobs sucks at that. If the play is 28 power, Jacobs is so concentrated in hitting the "8" hole, that he doesn't see anything else. Furthermore, he doesn't run full speed because he is waiting for our guards to pull, so he is jogging, and at that speed and height, he is going to get tackled in the backfield, because our TEs can't seal. Patience is a non issue, it's what we need now. That next step this upcoming season.

And on top of that jacobs wants a bigger contract for his extension. If we can't run power, his stats will get hurt. Hell I'd rather run more ISO and lead all day against defenses, but Gilbride doesn't do that as much. I just don't like this deal. People are so worried about how it positively effects Eli that they don't see the potential negative that it can have on our running game.

bigbluedefense
04-25-2008, 08:11 PM
It's not the patience part, I have an issue with, it's Jacobs running our bread and butter play. If our guys can't seal, Jacobs will get stopped in the backfield. Not only that his vision sucks, and he has no cutback ability. If it was Bradshaw or Ward I don't have to worry about both have cutback ability and vision. One specific example was the BIlls game, on Bradshaw's TD. That was power! And it fell apart, and bradshaw used his vision and then cut it back backside, and went in for a long TD. That's fine, I can deal with failed plays IF we have the right guy to see it and fix it. I have broke down enough games to realize Jacobs sucks at that. If the play is 28 power, Jacobs is so concentrated in hitting the "8" hole, that he doesn't see anything else. Furthermore, he doesn't run full speed because he is waiting for our guards to pull, so he is jogging, and at that speed and height, he is going to get tackled in the backfield, because our TEs can't seal. Patience is a non issue, it's what we need now. That next step this upcoming season.

And on top of that jacobs wants a bigger contract for his extension. If we can't run power, his stats will get hurt. Hell I'd rather run more ISO and lead all day against defenses, but Gilbride doesn't do that as much. I just don't like this deal. People are so worried about how it positively effects Eli that they don't see the potential negative that it can have on our running game.

Well as you know, Im not the biggest Jacobs fan myself. I guess all we can do is hope Boss gets his blocking up to a point where he can seal the outside by the start of the regular season. Its possible.

If not we're going to have to use Matthews more. But then that makes our play selection predictable.

You say it all the time: In Reese we trust. If he made this move, he made it for a reason. He knows what he's doing.

A Perfect Score
04-25-2008, 08:20 PM
the giants should trade shockey for a 2nd then move brandon jacobs to TE. a 6'4 264 lb TE who runs a 4.4. hes uber physical and can block. then they can start bradshaw, and get an extra 2nd rounder.

and please arealize im joking lol

NY+Giants=NYG
04-25-2008, 08:21 PM
Well as you know, Im not the biggest Jacobs fan myself. I guess all we can do is hope Boss gets his blocking up to a point where he can seal the outside by the start of the regular season. Its possible.

If not we're going to have to use Matthews more. But then that makes our play selection predictable.

You say it all the time: In Reese we trust. If he made this move, he made it for a reason. He knows what he's doing.

Yeah this is true. I hope he does know what he is doing. This would be the one potential move, if Shockey, is indeed traded that I disagree with it. I like the Luke P move, and didn't mind the David D move. Kiwi was ok, but this would be the one I will watch like a hawk this season, especially in our run game. Hopefully now, if Shockey is traded, we pick someone that can help be an impact to this franchise.

drmoyer421
04-25-2008, 08:22 PM
Does anyone have a link to confirm?

Unfortunately not.
I have been listening to SIRIUS... it sounds like something that is almost completed. But may not be finished till tommorrow.

bigbluedefense
04-25-2008, 08:27 PM
Shock, I just looked back at the stat lines for our running game after Shockey went out, particularly in the playoffs, and youre right, there was a significant dropoff in production by our run game when Shockey went out.

Especially with Jacobs. Bradshaw still held his own.

At first i wasn't too worried, but after going through and crunching the numbers, and seeing how significant the dropoff was (it was literally about 35-40 yards a game), it is concerning.

I guess the only thing I can think of is again, hoping that Boss improves his blocking even more during TC, and perhaps giving Bradshaw/Ward more carries and not making Jacobs our feature back. Im in favor of a 15/15 split, but who knows how they wind up splitting the carries. Should be something to pay attention to though.

The Legend
04-25-2008, 08:34 PM
so did Shockey want to get traded? if so i guess i understand
but if not then i think the Giants should have keep him IMO

CC.SD
04-25-2008, 08:35 PM
Shockey is damaged goods. That said, Brees is much better at targeting his TE than Eli.

Much, much better.

This is a great deal for the Saints. and honestly the Giants getting a second +anything else is a good deal for a malcontent who they won a Super Bowl without.

nfrillman
04-25-2008, 08:44 PM
Now what would it take to trade up with the Rams? #10 this year, 3rd rounder, and 1st round next year?

indyfan1985
04-25-2008, 08:55 PM
Well I think this rules out them trading up to get Dorsey or Ellis. Im pretty sure they will stay put at 10 now.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-25-2008, 09:06 PM
Shock, I just looked back at the stat lines for our running game after Shockey went out, particularly in the playoffs, and youre right, there was a significant dropoff in production by our run game when Shockey went out.

Especially with Jacobs. Bradshaw still held his own.

At first i wasn't too worried, but after going through and crunching the numbers, and seeing how significant the dropoff was (it was literally about 35-40 yards a game), it is concerning.

I guess the only thing I can think of is again, hoping that Boss improves his blocking even more during TC, and perhaps giving Bradshaw/Ward more carries and not making Jacobs our feature back. Im in favor of a 15/15 split, but who knows how they wind up splitting the carries. Should be something to pay attention to though.


That's what I am saying.. We run power, and if we can't seal the edge then our Titanic sinks. But we use Bradshaw he sees that the play is shot, and cuts it back like he did on the TD in the Bills game. Keep watching that play over, that's a perfect example of what vision can do, if a play is doomed to fail from the get go. Jacobs would keep running trying to plow his way for a 1 yard or 2. So while everyone says Eli did well with Shockey out, our running game dropped against these playoff teams in the playoffs.

Jonny
04-25-2008, 09:10 PM
Yeah. Boss can't block. I still hope this doesn't happen.

I think Rosenhaus really wanted a new contract and they weren't going to give one.

eaglesfan_45
04-25-2008, 10:17 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/news/story?id=3368412

deal has caught a snag

drmoyer421
04-25-2008, 10:22 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/news/story?id=3368412

deal has caught a snag

Loomis really wants him, it should be finalized tommorrow sometime.

Flyboy
04-25-2008, 10:29 PM
Could the Saints reach for Kentwan Balmer?

Don't say **** like that.

Saints67
04-25-2008, 10:31 PM
If I'm Loomis, I would let them sweat it out....

I have a good feeling the Giants will take a 3rd for Shockey..their just waiting for Loomis to blink...which he won't.

Flyboy
04-25-2008, 10:32 PM
If I'm Loomis, I would let them sweat it out....

I have a good feeling the Giants will take a 3rd for Shockey..their just waiting for Loomis to blink...which he won't.

Yeah, Loomis doesn't f'n play around.

Vikes99ej
04-25-2008, 10:37 PM
Why haven't the Saints just drafted a decent tight end over the last three or four years instead of signing a bunch of scrubs?

Toneloc498
04-26-2008, 12:19 AM
If I'm Loomis, I would let them sweat it out....

I have a good feeling the Giants will take a 3rd for Shockey..their just waiting for Loomis to blink...which he won't.

Yeah the Giants who were offered a 2nd round pick already would now take a 3rd rounder instead for their all pro TE who is their biggest money maker to the orginization over the last 4 or so years (jerseys and shirts). Makes perfect sense

ninerfan
04-26-2008, 12:23 AM
It'll get done for the 2nd and some pick switch a roo

TitleTown088
04-26-2008, 12:23 AM
Why haven't the Saints just drafted a decent tight end over the last three or four years instead of signing a bunch of scrubs?

IDK, why haven't the vikings?

Bengalsrocket
04-26-2008, 12:26 AM
IDK, why haven't the vikings?

or cincinnati (thank god we got Utecht though)

Vikes99ej
04-26-2008, 12:29 AM
IDK, why haven't the vikings?

I honestly don't know why. Just wasn't a priority. Hopefully it is this year.

DJC
04-26-2008, 04:54 AM
If this deal doesn't get done, I say either Lito is a Saint by the end of the day or they trade up from #10. I don't think they'll sit still during draft day after being involved in so many rumors the past couple weeks. I could even see them getting Shockey or Lito, and still trade up using future picks.

rickscott
04-26-2008, 06:31 AM
so do you think you guys still try to move up for Ellis?

Sveen
04-26-2008, 07:18 AM
I think we will. I would love for us to come away with Sedrick Ellis (or Dorsey if he falls *crossing fingers*) and Lito Sheppard. I'm not too high on the whole Shockey thing.

diabsoule
04-26-2008, 07:38 AM
I think we will. I would love for us to come away with Sedrick Ellis (or Dorsey if he falls *crossing fingers*) and Lito Sheppard. I'm not too high on the whole Shockey thing.

"Not too high on the whole Shockey thing" is a vast understatement for me.

Good organizations take smart risks with certain injured players. The Saints did that with Drew Brees and it paid off tremendously. But he was operated on and rehabbed by the best sports medicine doctor in the United States, Dr. James Andrews. It seems, however, that we are going overboard with trying to trade for and sign big name players coming off big injuries. Jonathan Vilma (who I fully expect to recuperate 100%) and Dan Morgan are the two latest that we're going to try and rely on. Vilma I'm sure will do fine but Morgan is one more hit away from living the rest of his life in a wheelchair and eating his meals through a straw. Now we're trying to trade a 2nd round pick for a guy who will NEVER be the same again after coming off a very significant injury.

There is no way, no ******* way that Shockey is able to perform as well as he did after having his leg broken. I don't see why the Saints are so gung-ho to trade for him in the first place. I guess the idea of drafting a TE and developing never struck them. A trade for Shockey is idiotic. We have a team that performs well together and doesn't blame anyone person for the loss. With Shockey you will have that. What if Brees fails to get him the ball throughout the first half? Shockey will ***** him out in a pre-game interview. Does that bode well for team chemistry?

I respect Shockey, I do, and I think he's a good player but do I want my team to trade our 2nd round pick for him? No. He's injured too often, is too much of a locker room cancer, and bitches too much. If our GM had half a brain he'd let the idea die. Sure, he can crunch numbers but trading for a guy who won't be the same and will tear your team apart? C'mon. You gotta be kidding me. It seems that Mickey Loomis doesn't even watch football and just casually pays attention to it. That's probably why we're only going after big name guys. It doesn't matter that their injured. Oh, they have an injury concern? **** it. Sign them! ******* moron.

BaLLiN
04-26-2008, 08:00 AM
Well I'd just like to say that NO is being stupid, they should really just be offering to switch 2nds and give us a 3rd, that way they could still have some ammo to move up.

Sveen
04-26-2008, 08:09 AM
"Not too high on the whole Shockey thing" is a vast understatement for me.

Good organizations take smart risks with certain injured players. The Saints did that with Drew Brees and it paid off tremendously. But he was operated on and rehabbed by the best sports medicine doctor in the United States, Dr. James Andrews. It seems, however, that we are going overboard with trying to trade for and sign big name players coming off big injuries. Jonathan Vilma (who I fully expect to recuperate 100%) and Dan Morgan are the two latest that we're going to try and rely on. Vilma I'm sure will do fine but Morgan is one more hit away from living the rest of his life in a wheelchair and eating his meals through a straw. Now we're trying to trade a 2nd round pick for a guy who will NEVER be the same again after coming off a very significant injury.

There is no way, no ******* way that Shockey is able to perform as well as he did after having his leg broken. I don't see why the Saints are so gung-ho to trade for him in the first place. I guess the idea of drafting a TE and developing never struck them. A trade for Shockey is idiotic. We have a team that performs well together and doesn't blame anyone person for the loss. With Shockey you will have that. What if Brees fails to get him the ball throughout the first half? Shockey will ***** him out in a pre-game interview. Does that bode well for team chemistry?

I respect Shockey, I do, and I think he's a good player but do I want my team to trade our 2nd round pick for him? No. He's injured too often, is too much of a locker room cancer, and bitches too much. If our GM had half a brain he'd let the idea die. Sure, he can crunch numbers but trading for a guy who won't be the same and will tear your team apart? C'mon. You gotta be kidding me. It seems that Mickey Loomis doesn't even watch football and just casually pays attention to it. That's probably why we're only going after big name guys. It doesn't matter that their injured. Oh, they have an injury concern? **** it. Sign them! ******* moron.

Nice to see someone else taking the time to write in depth about why we shouldn't trade for Shockey. I just didn't have the time to do that earlier. Still trying to finish up some schoolwork before the Draft starts :)

NY+Giants=NYG
04-26-2008, 09:31 AM
Worse comes to worse we keep Shockey, and try to increase his role as a pass reciever. Now with Boss, Mathews, and Johnson coming back, someone should be able to block on the otherwise. So I wouldn't mind seeing an increase of TE concept plays for both Boss and Shockey.

BaLLiN
04-26-2008, 09:36 AM
Right now i want to trade shockey... we really dont need him in the passing game, in the running game we will miss him, but we could always get John Carlson.

NY+Giants=NYG
04-26-2008, 09:39 AM
Right now i want to trade shockey... we really dont need him in the passing game, in the running game we will miss him, but we could always get John Carlson.

While we don't Need him, he is still a weapon that we can utilize. Having said that he also has as much value as a blocking TE to go along with pass recieving. Trading him away is stupid in my opinion. All he wants is an increase role. Now with 3 TEs on our roster excluding Shockey, we can find a way of getting him the ball.

LonghornsLegend
04-27-2008, 03:46 AM
So this is dead I guess since the Saints picked at 40?

BaLLiN
04-27-2008, 10:12 AM
its dead unless we get what we are asking for in a future first round pick, whether it be from saints, tampa, or seattle

Flyboy
04-27-2008, 03:44 PM
So this is dead I guess since the Saints picked at 40?

Yep. Unless Reese & Loomis start talking after the draft, the deal seems dead.

TheGreatEscape
04-28-2008, 12:55 AM
Yep. Unless Reese & Loomis start talking after the draft, the deal seems dead.

Tracy Porter and a 2009 first rounder for shockey would make me content, even though I love Shockey.

Flyboy
04-28-2008, 01:49 AM
Tracy Porter and a 2009 first rounder for shockey would make me content, even though I love Shockey.

Lawlz. Um, how about... no?

BaLLiN
04-28-2008, 06:24 AM
Tracy Porter and a 2009 first rounder for shockey would make me content, even though I love Shockey.

yea doubt that would happen, i dont think peyton would give up Roman Harper or Tracy Porter, both are his guys and he reached a little to ensure he got both of them.

I dont think this trade will go down unless the saints see something in shockey that would make them trade a 1st. or if they are horrible on offense. If shockey was traded to you then i think that run offense would really benefit, the passing offense as well.

If it doesnt happen before the trade deadline, i dont think it will ever happen.

Flyboy
04-28-2008, 09:14 AM
Tracy Porter was not a reach.

TheGreatEscape
04-28-2008, 09:30 AM
Lawlz. Um, how about... no?

Na it sounds good to me. You know the saints want to make that trade.

BaLLiN
04-28-2008, 02:52 PM
Tracy Porter was not a reach.

i wasnt really directing the reach part toward Porter, but valuewise it was a bit of a reach.

Flyboy
04-28-2008, 04:56 PM
i wasnt really directing the reach part toward Porter, but valuewise it was a bit of a reach.

Eh. Scott had him going at #50, he went at #40. Not really a reach imo.

Joe Flacco? Sam Baker? Yeah.

BaLLiN
04-28-2008, 05:18 PM
10 picks is still a bit of a reach, but yes nothing comparable to Baker or Flacco

D-Rod
04-29-2008, 03:33 AM
Baker was ranked at #32 by Mayock, #33 by Scott. And that was before the big run on tackles. He was picked at #21. He was never going to make it to #34 once the top 5 tackles had gone by #19. It was a bit of a need-reach, but I think it's being overplayed massively by some.

TheGreatEscape
04-29-2008, 01:08 PM
I guess I liked Porter more than most because I thought that pick was huge for the saints.

As for Baker I understand that pick aswell, was he the 21st best pick in this draft? No, but he was the 6th best LT in this draft and so I understand the pick.

LonghornsLegend
05-04-2008, 05:15 PM
This might still have some legs to it...

AROUND THE LEAGUE: League sources indicate the Saints' pursuit of Giants tight end Jeremy Shockey did not end when a draft-day deal between the clubs could not be reached. Coach Sean Payton believes Shockey is a perfect fit for the Saints' offense, and he still desperately wants the player to be wearing a black-and-gold uniform this season. Shockey has informed the Giants of his unhappiness, and apparently unwillingness, to play again in New York. Don't be surprised if the trade is finalized in the coming weeks. According to New York's Newsday, Shockey has four years remaining on his five-year, $26.3 million contract extension, including $1.9 million due this season.


http://www.nola.com/saints/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-4/120987961446360.xml&coll=1&thispage=2

TimD
05-04-2008, 05:56 PM
Shockey gets his ring and runs haha

SaintsMan
05-04-2008, 11:30 PM
I do believe a TE like Shockey would be the last missing piece to the Saints Offense, but I'm not willing to give up a 1st round pick for him and I'm not sure the Giants would take anything less at this point. Who knows.

Flyboy
05-05-2008, 01:41 AM
If we gave up a first for Shockey, I'm storming to see Mickey Loomis.

Dam8610
05-05-2008, 01:56 AM
If we gave up a first for Shockey, I'm storming to see Mickey Loomis.

It wouldn't be the worst value a team has gotten when trading their 1st round pick for a receiving threat recently.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-05-2008, 09:11 AM
Man this shockey thing still isn't dead yet. I am curious, however, to see what happens when training camp rolls around.

Flyboy
05-05-2008, 09:28 AM
It wouldn't be the worst value a team has gotten when trading their 1st round pick for a receiving threat recently.

Right, because writing a WR off after a redshirt season makes total sense.

GermanSaint
05-05-2008, 09:39 AM
ok i understand that payton really seems to love shockey ( for whatever reasons , since he doesnt fit his standarts ) but its annoying to read that the saints are in desperate need for a receiving TE every year. just look at drew brees stats and the passing offense in a whole , i dont see there a big need. we are loaded with receiving talent , and our most constant TE the last half decade was lamont hall a through and through blocking TE.

before giants fans bash me : i know he "can" do block very well. but telling everyone that he is used incorrectly while having about 800y receiving yards is a little over the hill. what do he want ? 1500y and 20 TD ? if thats the answer i can guarantee you guys he will be lost in our system. there are two up and comming young Studs on WR , a Speedster in the slot , 3 RBs who catch the ball very well. campbell as a good blocker and a solid receiver. karney a good FB and very versatile . nothing against talent on TE but not this headcase and please not for this price.

payton didnt want to spend more than a 2nd rounder on draft day and now that the giants seems to be desperate in moving shockey away , i don´t see the price will go up , more down . but thats just me.

LonghornsLegend
05-05-2008, 09:46 AM
ok i understand that payton really seems to love shockey ( for whatever reasons , since he doesnt fit his standarts ) but its annoying to read that the saints are in desperate need for a receiving TE every year. just look at drew brees stats and the passing offense in a whole , i dont see there a big need. we are loaded with receiving talent , and our most constant TE the last half decade was lamont hall a through and through blocking TE.

before giants fans bash me : i know he "can" do block very well. but telling everyone that he is used incorrectly while having about 800y receiving yards is a little over the hill. what do he want ? 1500y and 20 TD ? if thats the answer i can guarantee you guys he will be lost in our system. there are two up and comming young Studs on WR , a Speedster in the slot , 3 RBs who catch the ball very well. campbell as a good blocker and a solid receiver. karney a good FB and very versatile . nothing against talent on TE but not this headcase and please not for this price.

payton didnt want to spend more than a 2nd rounder on draft day and now that the giants seems to be desperate in moving shockey away , i don´t see the price will go up , more down . but thats just me.



Obviously Payton doesn't agree with you, thats the point your missing...You keep saying how the Saints TE's needs to block first, and the reason Shockey is going there is to be utilized in the passing game and not as much blocking.

GermanSaint
05-05-2008, 09:56 AM
Obviously Payton doesn't agree with you, thats the point your missing...You keep saying how the Saints TE's needs to block first, and the reason Shockey is going there is to be utilized in the passing game and not as much blocking.

no you dídn´t read it all.

i said : the TEs has to block also. its in the nature of things , we go out with a lot of 3 RB sets combined with a lot of 4 WR sets also, payton can be creative. but we have not only the quantity in the backfield but also the salary there. it would be very stupid to share the touches between lets say reggie and shock. we re-constructured deuce´s contract , so he will be just back to be atleast a 10 touches guy , pierre thomas is on the rise and everyone here is looking forward to reggies real break-out. meachem is there , colston , miller has a motor , patten had a real solid year , devery is back for the deep balls. i never mind talent on offense, but shock has to understand that its very probable getting fewer touches as in new york

i believe he is a nasty blocker if he want to. but complaining about getting used wrong while having receiver-like numbers is very strange. that said , i doubt he will get more with the saints. drew brees doenst have a favourite target and the stories about loving TEs is laughable since gates seems to be the only legit target in SD for a while. brees showed that he prefers to spread the passes , with a little emphasis on colston and we are building a running game , we added more beef to the OL , every year since payton arrived , so at first the dissapointed Running game has to be used correctly.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-05-2008, 10:11 AM
GS,

He can be used alot more in the passing game. Problem is we basically use Shockey in blocking for our bread and butter run play. He actually is vital for it, and when he went down our running game, mainly Jacobs had issues running power concept because Boss had trouble sealing the edge.

But in terms of passing attack, he def. could have been used more like he was under Payton. More TE screens and basically getting the ball in his hands so he can do stuff. Now it's a credit to Shockey that he still had good stats even though other guys on this team got fed the ball. We throw to everyone on our offense, but we certainly have room to get him involved even more than we are.

LonghornsLegend
05-05-2008, 10:12 AM
no you dídn´t read it all.

i said : the TEs has to block also. its in the nature of things , we go out with a lot of 3 RB sets combined with a lot of 4 WR sets also, payton can be creative. but we have not only the quantity in the backfield but also the salary there. it would be very stupid to share the touches between lets say reggie and shock. we re-constructured deuce´s contract , so he will be just back to be atleast a 10 touches guy , pierre thomas is on the rise and everyone here is looking forward to reggies real break-out. meachem is there , colston , miller has a motor , patten had a real solid year , devery is back for the deep balls. i never mind talent on offense, but shock has to understand that its very probable getting fewer touches as in new york

i believe he is a nasty blocker if he want to. but complaining about getting used wrong while having receiver-like numbers is very strange. that said , i doubt he will get more with the saints. drew brees doenst have a favourite target and the stories about loving TEs is laughable since gates seems to be the only legit target in SD for a while. brees showed that he prefers to spread the passes , with a little emphasis on colston and we are building a running game , we added more beef to the OL , every year since payton arrived , so at first the dissapointed Running game has to be used correctly.


No, I did read, but once again, Payton does not agree with you...Just by you starting off by saying "The TE's have to block", what sense does that make when Shockey is trying to get out of a place where he is blocking too much right now and wants to be utilized in the passing game more? It doesn't really matter what you say, because everything Payton has showed is that he is thinking completely opposite of what your posting.

bigbluedefense
05-05-2008, 10:47 AM
when Shockey went down, our run game went down 1.5 yards per carry, and around 40 yards per game.


Think about that. Thats how vital he is to our run game.


But im also cautious that his negative energy could effect the team. Like ive said a million times, Im indifferent whether he leaves or stays. The worry of mine is the short term effect his absence would give our run game, but perhaps long term we're better off without him.

However, at the same time, who knows what happens when TC arrives. He could change his tune and just play and we'll forget about all of this. Only time will tell.

bigbluedefense
05-05-2008, 10:49 AM
As for the whole Payton thing, let's not forget that Payton was our OC Shockey's rookie year under Fassell (his best statistical year even with missing some games). He knows how to use Shockey, and Im sure he'll adjust his playbook to accommodate his ability.

The reason why he probably doesn't use the TE much is because...he doesn't have a pass catching threat there? Payton is a mad scientist with his schemery, Im positive youd see adjustments to the gameplan if Shockey went there.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-05-2008, 11:00 AM
when Shockey went down, our run game went down 1.5 yards per carry, and around 40 yards per game.


Think about that. Thats how vital he is to our run game.


But im also cautious that his negative energy could effect the team. Like ive said a million times, Im indifferent whether he leaves or stays. The worry of mine is the short term effect his absence would give our run game, but perhaps long term we're better off without him.

However, at the same time, who knows what happens when TC arrives. He could change his tune and just play and we'll forget about all of this. Only time will tell.


I worried we overpay to re-sign Jacobs, let shockey go, and then watch Jacob's production go down, and people blame him for that. I can see that happening. I am not a fan of Jacobs to begin with.. well I shouldn;t say not a fan, I am not as crazy about him as most Giants fans are. I am indifferent to him, but I think we use him the wrong way. I hate how we run power with him, instead of ISO or Lead. WIthout SHockey sealing the edge, I see Jacobs getting stopped in the backfield for 3-4 yards loss.

If we lose Shockey, I'd rather just change our running plays to more zone, and use Ward/Bradshaw accordingly with Jacobs running power and mostly Iso and lead. But without Shockey, it changes what we have to do in our running game, UNLESS Boss and either Johnson or Mathews step up.

bigbluedefense
05-05-2008, 11:06 AM
I worried we overpay to re-sign Jacobs, let shockey go, and then watch Jacob's production go down, and people blame him for that. I can see that happening. I am not a fan of Jacobs to begin with.. well I shouldn;t say not a fan, I am not as crazy about him as most Giants fans are. I am indifferent to him, but I think we use him the wrong way. I hate how we run power with him, instead of ISO or Lead. WIthout SHockey sealing the edge, I see Jacobs getting stopped in the backfield for 3-4 yards loss.

If we lose Shockey, I'd rather just change our running plays to more zone, and use Ward/Bradshaw accordingly with Jacobs running power and mostly Iso and lead. But without Shockey, it changes what we have to do in our running game, UNLESS Boss and either Johnson or Mathews step up.

preaching to the choir Shock. i feel the same way.

BaLLiN
05-05-2008, 02:43 PM
I think Shockey might come back different. Knowing that we dont really need him to win, he may be less cocky. He still has a big mouth, which is bad and good sometimes. But really when we get him involved early it really helps Eli, and the crowd really loves shockey, so we get alot more noise.

Right now Im leaning more towards keeping him, but 1st and 4th rounders from the saints would change my mind.

Flyboy
05-05-2008, 02:47 PM
You're not getting a 1st for Shockey. Keep dreamin'.

bigbluedefense
05-05-2008, 02:48 PM
I think Shockey might come back different. Knowing that we dont really need him to win, he may be less cocky. He still has a big mouth, which is bad and good sometimes. But really when we get him involved early it really helps Eli, and the crowd really loves shockey, so we get alot more noise.

Right now Im leaning more towards keeping him, but 1st and 4th rounders from the saints would change my mind.

thats the problem. its like we have to appease his ego and force the ball his way. why does eli have to force it to him? go back and look at eli's INTs, id say 50% of em were to Shockey. its like he feels pressured to force it to him so he doesn't throw a bitchfit out there.

Shockey needs to shut up and play within the system. if he can't do that, then don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. period.

Flyboy
05-05-2008, 02:52 PM
thats the problem. its like we have to appease his ego and force the ball his way. why does eli have to force it to him? go back and look at eli's INTs, id say 50% of em were to Shockey. its like he feels pressured to force it to him so he doesn't throw a bitchfit out there.

The thing with Brees though if that as soon as Shockey started bitching he'd put him in his damn place instead of doing that "GEE GUYS" look on his face that Eli does. Not a knock on him, though. Brees is the leader of the team easily and would command Shockey to respect him.

BaLLiN
05-05-2008, 02:55 PM
You're not getting a 1st for Shockey. Keep dreamin'.

yea i know, ill keep dreaming :)

bigbluedefense
05-05-2008, 02:56 PM
The thing with Brees though if that as soon as Shockey started bitching he'd put him in his damn place instead of doing that "GEE GUYS" look on his face that Eli does. Not a knock on him, though. Brees is the leader of the team easily and would command Shockey to respect him.

yeah thats one problem with Eli. he's too laid back sometimes. its good in some ways, but bad in others.

I don't know if anyone could shut Shockey up. He's a diva just like TO and Chad. He just wants the ball all the time.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-05-2008, 02:56 PM
The thing with Brees though if that as soon as Shockey started bitching he'd put him in his damn place instead of doing that "GEE GUYS" look on his face that Eli does. Not a knock on him, though. Brees is the leader of the team easily and would command Shockey to respect him.


Problem with Eli is he had Shockey, and Tivi Barber in this circus as well. I feel like Eli was more intimidated with Tiki than with Shockey, and Shockey thing just made it worse. I think it finally culiminated to the point where Tiki thought he can rip Eli and get away with it, but as soon as Tiki left, Eli said something back, which I know privately the owners were happy about.

As far as Brees putting shockey in his place, that can either work, but Shockey would take it the wrong way, and it can escalate. I think of anyone can control him it would be Payton, not Brees.

BaLLiN
05-05-2008, 02:57 PM
thats the problem. its like we have to appease his ego and force the ball his way. why does eli have to force it to him? go back and look at eli's INTs, id say 50% of em were to Shockey. its like he feels pressured to force it to him so he doesn't throw a bitchfit out there.

Shockey needs to shut up and play within the system. if he can't do that, then don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. period.

that may be why there was a dramatic change, he didnt HAVE to give the ball to Shockey, so he could give it to Plax (his main man it seems) or spread it around since plax has gotten less selfish.

This is exactly why its so hard whether to decide on to keep him or trade him. He is a very good asset in the pass and run games, but he's a pain in the ass and we know we can win without him.

bigbluedefense
05-05-2008, 02:59 PM
Problem with Eli is he had Shockey, and Tivi Barber in this circus as well. I feel like Eli was more intimidated with Tiki than with Shockey, and Shockey thing just made it worse. I think it finally culiminated to the point where Tiki thought he can rip Eli and get away with it, but as soon as Tiki left, Eli said something back, which I know privately the owners were happy about.

As far as Brees putting shockey in his place, that can either work, but Shockey would take it the wrong way, and it can escalate. I think of anyone can control him it would be Payton, not Brees.

i agree. it would have to be Payton who would put Shockey in his place.

BaLLiN
05-05-2008, 03:00 PM
I think Shockey would stop being an assclown if he was traded to Payton. Brees is a more established QB than Eli and a leader, Payton brought him in and Shockey should respect that and he was also his coach in his best year.

bigbluedefense
05-05-2008, 03:02 PM
that may be why there was a dramatic change, he didnt HAVE to give the ball to Shockey, so he could give it to Plax (his main man it seems) or spread it around since plax has gotten less selfish.

This is exactly why its so hard whether to decide on to keep him or trade him. He is a very good asset in the pass and run games, but he's a pain in the ass and we know we can win without him.

thats why im torn on this. we really have no idea how this will play out. right now ill be happy either way, but if Shockey comes back this year and Eli starts screwing up again, then Shockey's gotta go.

I know he's vital to our run game, but you gotta think longterm. We can always teach blocking to the guys we already have in house, its not the end of the world.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-05-2008, 03:03 PM
i agree. it would have to be Payton who would put Shockey in his place.

It would have to be Payton, and the coaching staff, and then the players. But Payton is the force, that would need to say, "

"hey we traded for you because of these reasons, but rumor was you were unhappy because of this... So now we will help you be happy within the confines of MY system, and if you cause trouble there will be problems.. Can you handle that?"

Flyboy
05-05-2008, 03:03 PM
i agree. it would have to be Payton who would put Shockey in his place.

Yeah, good point. Payton shows no special treatment for anyone - I love when Reggie Bush makes a mistake and Payton proceeds to chew him out on the sideline. It's great.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-05-2008, 03:09 PM
Yeah, good point. Payton shows no special treatment for anyone - I love when Reggie Bush makes a mistake and Payton proceeds to chew him out on the sideline. It's great.

That's how coaches should be.. NO favorites. The day you do that, players will start observing that, and that's a huge step in the whole "buying" into what you say. If you can't treat players equally, then only your stars buy in, while the rest shut it down. One thing I learned from older coaches, who told me one key thing they learned, and they told me treat everyone equally, and dont be afraid to rip your star player. Players respect equal treatment and see you as fair. It's almost like excelling in people management, which is one of the roles a coach needs to do effectively especially when these guys make more than you.

BaLLiN
05-05-2008, 03:12 PM
I dont think the saints would trade for him if meachem does well, and i do think he will this season. So really i see the window of opportunity for this trade only being open until Meachem produces.

Flyboy
05-05-2008, 03:14 PM
I dont think the saints would trade for him if meachem does well, and i do think he will this season. So really i see the window of opportunity for this trade only being open until Meachem produces.

I don't buy that. Sean Payton can NEVER have enough weapons. We'll see how Meachem is in training camp and preseason, but giving Brees options to rely on in Bush, Colston, Meachem (assuming he contributes) and Shockey would be too much to pass up on imo.

BaLLiN
05-05-2008, 03:18 PM
I don't buy that. Sean Payton can NEVER have enough weapons. We'll see how Meachem is in training camp and preseason, but giving Brees options to rely on in Bush, Colston, Meachem (assuming he contributes) and Shockey would be too much to pass up on imo.

If Shockey gets traded im 90% certain it will be for a 1st round pick. I dont think the saints should spend that much on offense when they need defense. It could still happen, but the draft was really when it was at its highest chance of happening.

Flyboy
05-05-2008, 03:19 PM
If Shockey gets traded im 90% certain it will be for a 1st round pick. I dont think the saints should spend that much on offense when they need defense. It could still happen, but the draft was really when it was at its highest chance of happening.

If the Saints didn't give up their second rounder & Roman Harper, what makes you think they'll give up a first round pick?

BaLLiN
05-05-2008, 03:21 PM
If the Saints didn't give up their second rounder & Roman Harper, what makes you think they'll give up a first round pick?

if they are desperate or maybe if they think that they have a very good shot at the Superbowl and wont be giving up a top 10 pick more like somewhere in the late 20's

TheGreatEscape
05-05-2008, 03:29 PM
Since we're arguing about my favorite player's character let me give me read. Shockey is an incredibly talented players on the field and has been since he started with football. Thus he's always been a guy his team looked to when they needed a play and he's always delivered. He hit the NFL like a beast and became an instant hit. And he's always been completely absorbed in winning, so he gets pissed when we're not winning because he feels like if we got him the ball he could do it all himself, and sometimes he does and we love him for that (eagles in 07). I think this past year we saw him get better at trusting a teammates, which is why he focused on his blocking and became a dominant blocker, plus with the SB the team has proved they can win it all without him. So I would give him another year and then decide his future based on this year, and if he gets hurt you decide based of his attitude.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-05-2008, 04:50 PM
If the Saints didn't give up their second rounder & Roman Harper, what makes you think they'll give up a first round pick?

Well the 40th pick was an established one, while anything now is based upon your teams performance. So anything can be either 1 st pick overall to the 32nd pick. If we are talking 2nd rounder, it can be the first pick in the round or the last one. So nothing is set in stone. We turned down the 40th pick was was set in stone.

So we are sure that Shockey is worth more to us than that. So how else would it work out? We would either have to wait until next year and see if your 2nd rounder is less, or get a first rounder, which we would know is better in terms of selection # than 40.

So obviously Reese has some number set in stone, and until that is fulfilled, I don't see any progress on this front. It will continue to be a stalemate until something happens.

PoopSandwich
05-05-2008, 04:51 PM
Giants should give up a 2nd round pick and Shockey to the Bengals for Chad Johnson...

Just a complete random stupid thought, but CJ goes to a team that wins, the Bengals get a talented pass catcher as well as a 2nd round pick, and both teams end up happy... no?

NY+Giants=NYG
05-05-2008, 04:54 PM
Giants should give up a 2nd round pick and Shockey to the Bengals for Chad Johnson...

Just a complete random stupid thought, but CJ goes to a team that wins, the Bengals get a talented pass catcher as well as a 2nd round pick, and both teams end up happy... no?

His antics with this media market will be suicide for him. He would get owned here in NY. Not to mention, we have Plax, and getting CJ would basically put Plax back to square 1, as a number 2. We have Burress, Toomer, Smith, Manningham, and Moss. Adding Johnson would be another weapon, but I don't see us ever doing that. We finally got rid of Barber via retirement, getting CJ would be even worse.

GermanSaint
05-05-2008, 05:28 PM
@shockey-manning-shocking :

you know if vilma plays every down and have a good season stats-wise our second rounder will go to your neighbors

@edit:

me and payton doesnt split minds too much : he said the price is to high , like i said.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-05-2008, 05:34 PM
@shockey-manning-shocking :

you know if vilma plays every down and have a good season stats-wise our second rounder will go to your neighbors


O really? I knew he went but didn't really look at the terms. If that's the case, then I highly doubt a 3rd rounder or later would do it. So I am guessing it would have to be a 1st rounder or package of players and a later pick. Now I really would be suprised if the deal gets done.

CC.SD
05-05-2008, 05:37 PM
Giants should give up a 2nd round pick and Shockey to the Bengals for Chad Johnson...

Just a complete random stupid thought, but CJ goes to a team that wins, the Bengals get a talented pass catcher as well as a 2nd round pick, and both teams end up happy... no?

I like this deal.

BaLLiN
05-05-2008, 05:39 PM
I do not like that deal, at all

TheGreatEscape
05-05-2008, 05:53 PM
I like ocho cinco a lot but not on this team, we have our number one WR and a bevy of other talented pass catchers, Toomer, Smith, Shockey, Boss and Bradshaw. We're fine without johnson and losing shockey's blocking hurts our running game a lot more than adding CJ helps our passing game.

GermanSaint
05-05-2008, 06:00 PM
O really? I knew he went but didn't really look at the terms. If that's the case, then I highly doubt a 3rd rounder or later would do it. So I am guessing it would have to be a 1st rounder or package of players and a later pick. Now I really would be suprised if the deal gets done.


you guys are crazy.... no first rounder for a guy that quarreled with his organization
its not an nfl-standard price right now

TheGreatEscape
05-05-2008, 06:24 PM
you guys are crazy.... no first rounder for a guy that quarreled with his organization
its not an nfl-standard price right now

Jared Allen quarelled with his team and got a first, moss quarelled with the Vikings and got a first, 85 has quarelled with bengals and when Thomas and Kelly don't dominate as rookies Snyder will give the bengals a first for him. Shockey is a top flight tight end one of the best blockers of any TE who doesn't scare you as a receiver, he's worth a first rounder to the giants.

Flyboy
05-05-2008, 06:30 PM
Jared Allen quarelled with his team and got a first, moss quarelled with the Vikings and got a first, 85 has quarelled with bengals and when Thomas and Kelly don't dominate as rookies Snyder will give the bengals a first for him. Shockey is a top flight tight end one of the best blockers of any TE who doesn't scare you as a receiver, he's worth a first rounder to the giants.

And, he's also coming off a broken leg.

BaLLiN
05-05-2008, 06:50 PM
And, he's also coming off a broken leg.

so it really all depends on how he looks in preseason thru week 4 (trading deadline)

DragonFireKai
05-05-2008, 07:06 PM
And, he's also coming off a broken leg.

breaking a leg isn't a big problem. it's soft tissue injuries that are the career killers.

Seasonticketholder
05-05-2008, 07:29 PM
GS,

He can be used alot more in the passing game. Problem is we basically use Shockey in blocking for our bread and butter run play. He actually is vital for it, and when he went down our running game, mainly Jacobs had issues running power concept because Boss had trouble sealing the edge.

But in terms of passing attack, he def. could have been used more like he was under Payton. More TE screens and basically getting the ball in his hands so he can do stuff. Now it's a credit to Shockey that he still had good stats even though other guys on this team got fed the ball. We throw to everyone on our offense, but we certainly have room to get him involved even more than we are.

Very good point. This is how I see as well and I am Saints fan.

Seasonticketholder
05-05-2008, 07:34 PM
I think Shockey would stop being an assclown if he was traded to Payton. Brees is a more established QB than Eli and a leader, Payton brought him in and Shockey should respect that and he was also his coach in his best year.

I agree. Payton and Shockey, each, have always spoken glowingly of one another. I remember when the Saints hired Payton and Shockey was on NFL Network saying that Payton was the best coaching hire that year and how much Payton helped him develop as a player. Some of my fellow Saints fans--not necessarily those in this thread but those on Saintsreport.com--worry about Shockey becoming a team cancer. I think we have a strong lockerroom. Even more, I just think that Shockey would be very happy playing for Payton again, especially since Payton would do his best to maximize the talents that Shockey brings to the table.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-05-2008, 09:07 PM
you guys are crazy.... no first rounder for a guy that quarreled with his organization
its not an nfl-standard price right now

He didn't fight with us, and if he did it's behind the scenes not like Chad Johnson, briggs, or even TO wanting out. He has Rosenhaus as an agent as well, and still managed to keep it in house in the BIGGEST media market in the league. Call Shockey what you want, but that's commendable as of now. Who knows if it gets worse but so far I have no problem with how he has handled it. Mind you this is supposed to be an emotional guy, fiery guy, who is keeping this all on the dl.

I am not saying you guys would give up a first, but I'd be suprised if you guys can get him for less now. If we didn't want the 40th pick, we sure as well aren't going to take anything less, unless you guys package more picks or someone we need.

SaintsFanForLife
05-05-2008, 09:09 PM
I really think the Giants will keep him around another year.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-05-2008, 09:18 PM
I really think the Giants will keep him around another year.

Honestly I think the same thing. I would have guessed he would have traded during the draft. Now that he isn't and the fact your second round pick is tied with the Jets and Vilma, I don't see a deal working out.

GermanSaint
05-06-2008, 03:43 AM
so since in theory the 2nd round through 4th round picks (on of them ) have to be backed up for the vilma trade , that leaves the first round pick. that could be 1 to 32 at this moment.

i tell you something if the deal comes up , and loomis send the first rounder (what i strongly doubt ) and the saints play a mediocre to bad season again , they created a big monster. no play offs , no first rounder and a (probably) bad defense again.

again , i doubt the first rounder . we are not a receiving TE away from a super bowl. but a good defense.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-06-2008, 10:04 AM
so since in theory the 2nd round through 4th round picks (on of them ) have to be backed up for the vilma trade , that leaves the first round pick. that could be 1 to 32 at this moment.

i tell you something if the deal comes up , and loomis send the first rounder (what i strongly doubt ) and the saints play a mediocre to bad season again , they created a big monster. no play offs , no first rounder and a (probably) bad defense again.

again , i doubt the first rounder . we are not a receiving TE away from a super bowl. but a good defense.


That may be the case with you guys, but apparently from reports your HC is thinking otherwise. Now it depends on how much pull he has with your GM.

But that's pretty much my overall point is that your picks have to be ready fo the Vilma deal, which leaves X amount of picks left, including a first round pick. Now because we turned down the 40th pick was already set in stone, it would have to be a better deal than 40th pick overall. So that's what I am saying. I don't think the deal would go through now, just because of it.

I could be wrong, but I would have thought if he was to be traded this past draft was the ideal time to do it. Once you guys made your pick, it pretty much meant he is not going to be dealt for that value, at least to you guys. He could go somewhere else if another team offers us something good. But again, I don't see him going anywhere.